Melky Cabrera can safely look for an apartment (at least for now)
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- January
- 17
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The Pirates have traded LHP Mike Gonzalez to Atlanta for Adam LaRoche and another player.
The Yankees were involved in this deal at one point but the Braves and Pirates didn’t need them in the end.
The fans love the Melkman but he remains their most valuable trade chip. The question is whether he would have been worth a lefty with an elbow issue.
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on Wednesday, January 17th, 2007 at 7:09 pm by Peter Abraham.
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I am of the belief that we should sell high on Melky. His OPS is not good enough in my opinion to warrant him getting a starting corner outfielder job for the Yanks, and his ability to play center effectively is questionable.
I love him as a 4th outfielder, but I’m not nearly as opposed to trading him as many others.
Melky Cabrera will be the 4th OF on this team and he’s a perfect fit for that role right now.
Pete… the LA Times had a blurb on the Yanks interested in K-Rod as a possible successor to the Great Mariano… is this speculation or any truth to this?
With the extra arms Cashman picked up this off-season, I certainly don’t regret the Pirates dealing Gonzalez elsewhere. I am of the mind that Melky helped the team a lot last year and he is exuberant and talented. He is a switch hitter with some speed and a pretty good arm in the field. I liked watching him take extra bases on singles to right-field and liked the way he attacked the ball and come up throwing – he held a few runners to singles that way. So, he is a nice compliment to the older players on our team who are saving themselves for October.
That being said, if we need a starter or a reliever down the stretch (let’s hope not!), I would not be against trading Melky. Position players with “good speed” and “good arms” (neither one really great) that play hard are not as rare as you might think. Being a switch hitter adds to his value, but the Yankee champs of recent years won on pitching – both starting and relieving.
So I will sit firmly on the fence and accept whatever happens this year. But what wouldn’t I give to see Melky pull another Manny-ball back into the yard – in game 7 of the ALCS!!!
Wasn’t Melky going to end up on the Braves anyway? Couldn’t the trade be revisited without the Pirates involved anymore.
the braves can trade for melky now for gonzo
Melky was rated the best defensive OF in MLB last year.
He’s 22 years old.
He’ll get plenty of playing time with the mid-thirties OF.
He’s still improving and finding his power stroke.
The recent Yankee dynasty was actually built on a healthy dose of home-grown position players, in the most important positions, plus a side of Pettitte and a once-in-baseball-history break named Mariano.
I’d like to keep Melky, thanks. One of the 52 pitchers Cashman has already acquired, or in the farm, should be able to help out, if needed.
This would be stu[id trade this would leave the yankees in dire need of a fourth outfielder and i dont think they have a back up option incase they trade melky, who wil they get bernie?
Oh god, HR derby in 2008 at yankee stadium, just pencil Ortiz in for a crown, how disgusting.
I would trade Melky in the right deal, but I would trade any player (Jeter, A-Rod, etc.) if it makes the team better.
Good. Melky is one of ours. He filled a needed role last year and brought much needed enery to the Yankees. Besides my kids love him!
I don’t understand why Melky is “safe”. Isn’t Atlanta still in the market for a center fielder, and wouldn’t they still like to pry Melky away?
It’s a good thing the Pirates traded for LaRoche; now they have a shot at the pennant!
Once the Penguins move, the only professional sports team that will be left in Pittsburgh will be the Steelers.
Unrelated to this post, Pete, but to the extent user feedback matters, I’d have to say my vote is with the old site design. In any case, keep up the good work!
This isn’t really a debate. Of course Melky is worth Mike Gonzalez. I am upset that the Yankees couldn’t acquire Mike, because he is one of the best young lefty relievers out there. I don’t blame the Pirates and Braves for not wanting to get involved in this deal because Melky is an average hitter at best. I like his enthusiasm, defense, and effort, but he doesn’t contribute a great deal offensivly. He’s a nice 4th OF, not much more.
Melky is 22.Judging his future on 2006 is to sell him short.He held his own and if he fills out some we have an of with Speed,a very good arm and good strike zone judgement.He could develop into a star, he might not.Im not trading him now if its my call.
Chris V- Adam LaRoche is actually an excellent young hitter who should improve the Pirates. His bat and defense would be a decent fit with the Yankees, actually. But, the Yankees can’t have everything
Jim- Are you serious? Can a team ever be in “dire” need of a 4th OF? There are about 8 million 4th OF’s available, c’mon
What’s up for debate is the health of Gonzalez’s elbow. That’s why it makes no sense to blithely trade Melky for him and think it’s a good deal for the Yankees.
Additionally, Damon may be entering the point of his career when he starts to break down. Melky is the only viable CF back up the Yankees have.
btw, To assume that Melky will remain an “average hitter” as a result of the stats he put up at 21 is to neglect the development curve of a great many players.
The Braves have Andruw Jones in CF still, although that could change after 2007. Gonzalez would seem to fill their need for a closer.
I know people like Melky — and they should — but dismissing Mike Gonzalez as a “lefty with a bad elbow” is absurd. His stuff rivals B.J. Ryan and I’d take him over Billy Wagner any day. He makes guys look foolish and he was a closer last year.
I’m not going to kill the Yankees for not trading Melky (because Damon comes up with an ailment every other week and has to rest a lot) — though it’s unclear what Melky’s future role with the team will be (with Tabata on the rise) — but Gonzalez is a young, power lefty, and to somehow think he isn’t “worth” Melky is to be blinded by the glare of hometown talent. You don’t have to defend Melky by dissing Gonzalez.
Rich, he showed no sparks of becoming a great hitter. .280 hitters with half decent obps aren’t terribly valuable. Maybe he’ll become a great contact hitter w/out power, like Wade Boggs, but I doubt that. He doesn’t really hit for extra bases, his speed is decent, and his ability to get on base is ok but not special. Melky can defend, I will give you that. He’s a lovable and he’s a good player who will improve. But Mike Gonzalez’ elbow problem wasn’t severe and reports seem to say that he will recover (modern medicine today is as good as ever, and pitchers who have had much more severe injuries come back all the time) Gonzalez is flat-out more valuable than Melky Cabrera. That cannot be debated.
Stormy, I completly agree. A power lefty arm with youth on his side doesn’t come along often. I can understand why the Pirates wanted LaRoche instead of Melky, although if I were the GM, I would have held on to Gonzo. LaRoche is good compensation though.
No way I do Melky for a sore-armed relief pitcher who’s biggest outs were recorded in Pittsburgh. If John Schuerholz thinks Blob Wickman is a better option to close games, that tells me all I need to know about Gonzalez.
Melky’s 22 years old and he’s already proven that he can do every single thing a baseball player should, other than hit home runs consistently, and that’s coming too.
He never strikes out, drew a ton of walks for a bottom of the line-up rookie, and showed plenty of gap power that’ll only improve with more bulk and experience, same as Cano.
It wouldn’t surprise me to see him as the everyday rightfielder in ‘08 with Abreu’s money going to Texiera or some other big swinging first baseman.
Stormy: Well said, I agree completely.
Jim: You said that Melky was rated the best defensive OFer in MLB last year? By who? Melky did a decent job, but that’s absurd and I can’t believe that’s even remotely true.
Two points:
1) With re: to Gonzalez’s elbow: Will Carroll recently wrote that doctors have told him that Gonzalez’s tendinitis could be nothing, or it could be a precursor to TJ surgery. Tendinitis is a catchall diagnosis. So to dismiss his elbow problem by trying to claim that those who cite it are being absurd shows an ignorance of orthopedic medicine.
2) As to Ross’s point, according to this link:
Baseball Between The Numbers indicates that a typical player can be expected to improve his offensive output by about 15% from his age 22 to age 23 season.
If that’s accurate, Melky’s OPS could rise to .864 in the next couple of years, which would make him an above average OFer with a very good glove.
Melky is a switch hitter who can give any of the three OF we have (all lefty hitters) a day off against a lefty. His numbers last year were VERY good for someone who did not turn 22 until August. Compare his stats to some other players at the age of 21.
Can a team ever be in dire need of a 4th OF? You’re kidding, right? Last year the Yanks weren’t only in need of a 4th OF due to Matsui’s injury, but they were ALSO in dire need of a FIFTH OF due to Sheff’s injury!
The link didn’t show up. Here it is:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....era_f.html
Well, there’s pluses and minuses to both sides. While I do feel that Melky is a solid OF, his lack of a “power stroke” seems a little moot with the current lineup. That’s like saying my spare car – a Prosche isn’t a Ferrari like the rest of my cars… all 8 of them. Also, Melky is in the hands of the incredibly capable Mattingly and Long as well as in the company of some of the best hitters in the Majors (Arod, Jeter, Abreu, Matsui, and so on) and if he can’t pick up something from those guys, he deserves to get traded. But he is solid on defense and is definitely a good young player. At 22, he has nowhere to go but up.
On the flip side, getting a good lefty reliever (or aiming high – KRod), would be a definite boon to the team. Good pitching is harder to find that good hitting. But like with all things, I’m ok either way. If Cash Money thinks there’s a deal worth making, I’m all ears. Even if it means moving the Melky. If the Bucs/Braves trade was only the first part of the deal, I am eager to find out if Cash is already on the phone while at the beach. I’m sure the doctors will examine all the records before Cash gives any deal a blessing, but at this point, until I see Melky on a bus/plane, it’s all speculation.
Why do the Yankees need Mike Gonzalez now? They have Rivera, Farns, Proctor, Vizcaino, Britton, Myers, Bruney. That’s already seven relievers. At this point Gonzalez is a luxury. Trading Melky doesn’t fill any holes on the team, it only creates one that will probably be filled by a lesser player then Melky (Bernie).
Ross – I know LaRoche is good (I had him on my fantasy team last year), but in relation to the rest of their offseason, it’s pitiful. And you know they’re going to trade him mid-season a la Casey. I can’t fault them for getting LaRoche (although maybe a Cashman might have gotten some young arms back), but I can fault them for being the worst team in the NL, which they will continue to be.
Well, I think they would be willing to consider Gonzo for the follow reason:
Rivera RHP
Farnsworth RHP
Proctor RHP
Vizcaino RHP
Britton RHP
Myers LHP (one batter/inning specialist)
Bruney RHP
Ironic how the Yankees’ lineup is left heavy and the bullpen is right heavy.
True…the Yanks bullpen is Righty heavy, but several of their Righty bullpen arms have great number against lefties.
Vizcaino:
121 lefty Plate Appearances
.163 average
Proctor:
160 PA
.204 Avg
Bruney:
30 PA
.115 Avg
Those are all better numbers than Myers had last year against lefties. Seems like we might be in OK shape without getting another lefty arm, though I would agree that Melky is our biggest trading chip, and that Gonzalez, at face value seems more valuable, but his elbow problems worry me. I think, in the end, I’ll be glad that this deal wasn’t made.
Always sell high.
But if you arent going to get a player of Gonzalez caliber you may as well keep him.
Randyhater said: “No way I do Melky for a sore-armed relief pitcher who’s biggest outs were recorded in Pittsburgh.”
That is a good point! Guys like Weaver, Vasquez, and others could not cut it in NY and couldn’t perform in the playoffs. While it is hard to say who will perform and who will not, Gonzalez has not proven he CAN, so his value in that regard could be questionable.
You can’t say don’t get Gonzo because his big outs were from Pittsburg and in the same breath claim Vizcaino was great against lefties in the Hardly-Powerhouse and Totally Lackluster Division that is the NL West – and pitched mainly against teams like the Rockies, Padres (who had the fewest homers in baseball last year) and Dodgers. Hardly convincing. Just out of curiosity – just how many of the batters he faced (lefty or righty) were pitchers? I know how many pitchers he’ll face on the Yankees – ZERO.
Just stating the facts.
Sunny…you’re addressing two different points made by two different posters. I’ll respond to the point I made about Vizcaino’s numbers against lefties. The Padres were actually ranked 23rd in homers, not last, but that doesn’t really matter. Your point is that the NL West was a weak hitting division, and you’re right, but the regardless of the West’s power numbers, the sample size still leaves you with a good enough idea about his ability to get out lefties. Regardless of the division, holding a group of hitters to a .163 average over 121 plate appearances is impressive. His career, he’s held lefties to a .228 batting average. Will those numbers go up pitching in the AL East, more than likely, but the same could be said about the stats of any pitcher. I’m not saying he’s an ace left specialist, but he seems more than capable of getting lefties out. Add that to the other strong showing some of our righty relievers have had against lefties, and I’m OK with not getting Gonzalez.
And just for the heck of it…Vizcaino faced 2 pitchers in 2006, one of them hit lefty. A low number, but that shouldn’t be surprising since he’s a reliever. He recorded outs both times.
Well, let’s look at the numbers then:
Vizcaino’s stats : let’s really look:
Teams
2006 Dbacks
2005 White Sox
2004-2002 Brewers
2000-2001 A’s
Avgs 17 pitches per inning
AL: K/9
2000 Oak: 8.38
2001 Oak: 7.61
2005 CWS: 5.53
NL: K/9
2002 Mil: 8.74
2003 Mil: 8.86
2004 Mil: 7.88
2006 AZ: 9.92
2000 to 2006
His BAA against NL teams (when he played for Mil & Az) avgs .224
His BAA against AL teams (when he played for Oak & CWS) avgs .282
58 points higher
2006:
Lefties: BAA .163 OPS .569 (out of 104 AB)
Righties: BAA .256 OPS .812 (out of 133 AB)
2005
Lefties: BAA .321 OPS .851 (out of 112 AB)
Righties: BAA .242 OPS .689 (out of 157 AB)
2004
Lefties: BAA .163 OPS .586 (out of 129 AB)
Righties: BAA .290 OPS .853 (out of 138 AB)
2003
Lefties: BAA .253 OPS .871 (out of 83 AB)
Righties: BAA .269 OPS .851 (out of 160 AB)
2002
Lefties: BAA .225 OPS .612 (out of 111 AB)
Righties: BAA .170 OPS .537 (out of 176 AB)
2004-2006
Lefties: BAA .214 OPS .667 (out of 345 AB)
Righties: BAA .262 OPS .780 (out of 428 AB)
BIG STAT:
INNINGS PITCHED:
2006: 65.1
2005: 70.0
2004: 72.0
2003: 62.0
2002: 81.1
2001: 36.2
Vizcaino averages 69 Innings Pitched PER SEASON for the last 3 years (2006: 65.1, 2005: 70, 2004: 72) and has never gone over 82 IP (2002) and if you go back further to a 5 year period – it actually DROPS to 64.5 IP per season. If Torre gets ahold of him, I can foresee a breakdown of Villone like caliber in August of 2007 (where he would hit the 80 IP mark if Torre remains true to his managing history).
Also in 2005 as a member of the CWS, lefties bashed him for a .321 avg. Actually higher than righties. I think it’s fair for me to say I am concerned about his transition to the AL.
I’m not saying he comes without risk he does…but so did Gonzalez, especially with the question mark of an elbow and the loss of Melky.
I guess you have to decide which risk costs you less.
True, but in todays market, it’s harder to find good pitching than good hitting. Gonzo comes with an elbow risk. But I think if we were willing to take that risk on Dotel (who was horrible), Gonzalez, I would think would be a better deal. And I think Melky’s loss can be offset with the rise of Tabata (who I know is still a few years off), and maybe in 08 the acquisition of Andru Jones.
Well Dotel only cost the Yankees money, not a player in trade, so that’s really a different situation. I agree that Tabata is the future star in the Yankees outfield, if you have to choose between the two, but he’s not going to be playing in New York this year, even if Melky IS gone so that leaves you replace Melky with either Bernie or Kevin Thompson as your 4th outfielder. That’s a much bigger gap to make up. Again…I’m not against trading Melky for the right package…but a questionable Gonzalez didn’t seem like the right one to me, especially since our bullpen seems like it’s pretty strong. Getting a left just to have a lefty (regardless of numbers) isn’t the wisest decision.
You can’t really speculate on Andruw Jones. A lot of things can happen between now and free agency in 2008. I’m not sure I would go after him anyway, especially if Tabata ends up as great as expected. You could potentially have a hitter nearly, if not more, dangerous, for practically no money in comparison.
I am not saying go get Gonzalez at all costs… but a Melky OR a Proctor wouldn’t be horrible. But definitely not both. If we can keep Melky then I’m all for that – an outfield of Tabata and Melky (and Free Agent) in 08 sounds awesome… But If Cash makes the move, I won’t cry foul either.
I was not in favor of trading Melky to the Braves in the 3-way deal to acquire Gonzalez. Melky is nowhere near being a superstar, but will likely be a solid corner outfielder who can perform in pressure situations. Now that Gonzalez is a Brave, I’m intrigued with the thought of a deal which includes both Gonzalez AND Andruw Jones for Melky, Proctor and a couple of our righthander prospects (excluding Hughes, of course)
Did this happen recently? I thought I heard about this a while ago.