Comments on: Melky Cabrera can safely look for an apartment (at least for now)

By: LathamJoe

LathamJoe — Thu, 18 Jan 2007 22:34:36 +0000

I was not in favor of trading Melky to the Braves in the 3-way deal to acquire Gonzalez. Melky is nowhere near being a superstar, but will likely be a solid corner outfielder who can perform in pressure situations. Now that Gonzalez is a Brave, I’m intrigued with the thought of a deal which includes both Gonzalez AND Andruw Jones for Melky, Proctor and a couple of our righthander prospects (excluding Hughes, of course)

By: sunny615

sunny615 — Thu, 18 Jan 2007 22:19:35 +0000

I am not saying go get Gonzalez at all costs… but a Melky OR a Proctor wouldn’t be horrible. But definitely not both. If we can keep Melky then I’m all for that – an outfield of Tabata and Melky (and Free Agent) in 08 sounds awesome… But If Cash makes the move, I won’t cry foul either.

By: Brian

Brian — Thu, 18 Jan 2007 20:41:37 +0000

Well Dotel only cost the Yankees money, not a player in trade, so that’s really a different situation. I agree that Tabata is the future star in the Yankees outfield, if you have to choose between the two, but he’s not going to be playing in New York this year, even if Melky IS gone so that leaves you replace Melky with either Bernie or Kevin Thompson as your 4th outfielder. That’s a much bigger gap to make up. Again…I’m not against trading Melky for the right package…but a questionable Gonzalez didn’t seem like the right one to me, especially since our bullpen seems like it’s pretty strong. Getting a left just to have a lefty (regardless of numbers) isn’t the wisest decision.
You can’t really speculate on Andruw Jones. A lot of things can happen between now and free agency in 2008. I’m not sure I would go after him anyway, especially if Tabata ends up as great as expected. You could potentially have a hitter nearly, if not more, dangerous, for practically no money in comparison.

By: sunny615

sunny615 — Thu, 18 Jan 2007 20:11:41 +0000

True, but in todays market, it’s harder to find good pitching than good hitting. Gonzo comes with an elbow risk. But I think if we were willing to take that risk on Dotel (who was horrible), Gonzalez, I would think would be a better deal. And I think Melky’s loss can be offset with the rise of Tabata (who I know is still a few years off), and maybe in 08 the acquisition of Andru Jones.

By: Brian

Brian — Thu, 18 Jan 2007 19:58:09 +0000

I’m not saying he comes without risk he does…but so did Gonzalez, especially with the question mark of an elbow and the loss of Melky.
I guess you have to decide which risk costs you less.

By: sunny615

sunny615 — Thu, 18 Jan 2007 19:40:59 +0000

Well, let’s look at the numbers then:

Vizcaino’s stats : let’s really look:

Teams
2006 Dbacks
2005 White Sox
2004-2002 Brewers
2000-2001 A’s

Avgs 17 pitches per inning
AL: K/9
2000 Oak: 8.38
2001 Oak: 7.61
2005 CWS: 5.53
NL: K/9
2002 Mil: 8.74
2003 Mil: 8.86
2004 Mil: 7.88
2006 AZ: 9.92

2000 to 2006
His BAA against NL teams (when he played for Mil & Az) avgs .224
His BAA against AL teams (when he played for Oak & CWS) avgs .282
58 points higher

2006:
Lefties: BAA .163 OPS .569 (out of 104 AB)
Righties: BAA .256 OPS .812 (out of 133 AB)

2005
Lefties: BAA .321 OPS .851 (out of 112 AB)
Righties: BAA .242 OPS .689 (out of 157 AB)

2004
Lefties: BAA .163 OPS .586 (out of 129 AB)
Righties: BAA .290 OPS .853 (out of 138 AB)

2003
Lefties: BAA .253 OPS .871 (out of 83 AB)
Righties: BAA .269 OPS .851 (out of 160 AB)

2002
Lefties: BAA .225 OPS .612 (out of 111 AB)
Righties: BAA .170 OPS .537 (out of 176 AB)

2004-2006
Lefties: BAA .214 OPS .667 (out of 345 AB)
Righties: BAA .262 OPS .780 (out of 428 AB)

BIG STAT:
INNINGS PITCHED:
2006: 65.1
2005: 70.0
2004: 72.0
2003: 62.0
2002: 81.1
2001: 36.2
Vizcaino averages 69 Innings Pitched PER SEASON for the last 3 years (2006: 65.1, 2005: 70, 2004: 72) and has never gone over 82 IP (2002) and if you go back further to a 5 year period – it actually DROPS to 64.5 IP per season. If Torre gets ahold of him, I can foresee a breakdown of Villone like caliber in August of 2007 (where he would hit the 80 IP mark if Torre remains true to his managing history).

Also in 2005 as a member of the CWS, lefties bashed him for a .321 avg. Actually higher than righties. I think it’s fair for me to say I am concerned about his transition to the AL.

By: Brian

Brian — Thu, 18 Jan 2007 19:31:46 +0000

Sunny…you’re addressing two different points made by two different posters. I’ll respond to the point I made about Vizcaino’s numbers against lefties. The Padres were actually ranked 23rd in homers, not last, but that doesn’t really matter. Your point is that the NL West was a weak hitting division, and you’re right, but the regardless of the West’s power numbers, the sample size still leaves you with a good enough idea about his ability to get out lefties. Regardless of the division, holding a group of hitters to a .163 average over 121 plate appearances is impressive. His career, he’s held lefties to a .228 batting average. Will those numbers go up pitching in the AL East, more than likely, but the same could be said about the stats of any pitcher. I’m not saying he’s an ace left specialist, but he seems more than capable of getting lefties out. Add that to the other strong showing some of our righty relievers have had against lefties, and I’m OK with not getting Gonzalez.
And just for the heck of it…Vizcaino faced 2 pitchers in 2006, one of them hit lefty. A low number, but that shouldn’t be surprising since he’s a reliever. He recorded outs both times.

By: sunny615

sunny615 — Thu, 18 Jan 2007 18:52:09 +0000

You can’t say don’t get Gonzo because his big outs were from Pittsburg and in the same breath claim Vizcaino was great against lefties in the Hardly-Powerhouse and Totally Lackluster Division that is the NL West – and pitched mainly against teams like the Rockies, Padres (who had the fewest homers in baseball last year) and Dodgers. Hardly convincing. Just out of curiosity – just how many of the batters he faced (lefty or righty) were pitchers? I know how many pitchers he’ll face on the Yankees – ZERO.

Just stating the facts.

By: robthehoopl

robthehoopl — Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:46:14 +0000

Randyhater said: “No way I do Melky for a sore-armed relief pitcher whoâ€™s biggest outs were recorded in Pittsburgh.”

That is a good point! Guys like Weaver, Vasquez, and others could not cut it in NY and couldn’t perform in the playoffs. While it is hard to say who will perform and who will not, Gonzalez has not proven he CAN, so his value in that regard could be questionable.

By: Jake

Jake — Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:10:13 +0000

Always sell high.

But if you arent going to get a player of Gonzalez caliber you may as well keep him.