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	<title>Comments on: No amateurs in the clubhouse, please</title>
	<atom:link href="http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/24/no-amateurs-in-the-clubhouse-please/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/24/no-amateurs-in-the-clubhouse-please/</link>
	<description>A Yankees Blog by Journal News beat writer Peter Abraham</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 08:39:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/24/no-amateurs-in-the-clubhouse-please/#comment-1036</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:03:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/24/no-amateurs-in-the-clubhouse-please/#comment-1036</guid>
		<description>I knew there was a reaon I always dug Piazza.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I knew there was a reaon I always dug Piazza.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/24/no-amateurs-in-the-clubhouse-please/#comment-997</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 03:32:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/24/no-amateurs-in-the-clubhouse-please/#comment-997</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Pete</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Pete</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Abraham</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/24/no-amateurs-in-the-clubhouse-please/#comment-979</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Abraham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 00:48:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/24/no-amateurs-in-the-clubhouse-please/#comment-979</guid>
		<description>Ross: Piazza is more of a Libertarian than a Republican. He pays close attention to the discourse. Piazza was always an interesting guy to talk to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ross: Piazza is more of a Libertarian than a Republican. He pays close attention to the discourse. Piazza was always an interesting guy to talk to.</p>
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		<title>By: SF Yanks</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/24/no-amateurs-in-the-clubhouse-please/#comment-975</link>
		<dc:creator>SF Yanks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 23:57:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/24/no-amateurs-in-the-clubhouse-please/#comment-975</guid>
		<description>Isn't the SF Giants stadium on it's 4th corporate name? SBC, Comcast, Pacbell, AT&#38;T? And to someone who questioned Bonds' homerun power earlier, he led the NL in longest Ave home run last year with 407 ft. Actually tied with Shawn Green.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t the SF Giants stadium on it&#8217;s 4th corporate name? SBC, Comcast, Pacbell, AT&#038;T? And to someone who questioned Bonds&#8217; homerun power earlier, he led the NL in longest Ave home run last year with 407 ft. Actually tied with Shawn Green.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/24/no-amateurs-in-the-clubhouse-please/#comment-970</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 23:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/24/no-amateurs-in-the-clubhouse-please/#comment-970</guid>
		<description>To get back to a MUCH earlier part of the thread, I had no idea Piazza was from the conservative side of politics. Hey Pete, could you shed anymore light on this? I wouldn't be shocked though, most athletes are conservative republicans. Just look at senator Jim Bunning (as ultra conservative as they come)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To get back to a MUCH earlier part of the thread, I had no idea Piazza was from the conservative side of politics. Hey Pete, could you shed anymore light on this? I wouldn&#8217;t be shocked though, most athletes are conservative republicans. Just look at senator Jim Bunning (as ultra conservative as they come)</p>
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		<title>By: Chris NY</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/24/no-amateurs-in-the-clubhouse-please/#comment-967</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris NY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 23:07:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/24/no-amateurs-in-the-clubhouse-please/#comment-967</guid>
		<description>The one thing I will say for McGwire is that the way he's acting now does seem to be hiding due to shame.  That at least shows he might regret it or at least feels some guilt and shame, yes weak for not stepping up, but I kinda feel for the guy in a small way.  Bonds, I would highly doubt will ever feel anything other than that this world owes HIM something, as he is our God and we should all bow down to him... Massive ego, that is why no-one likes him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The one thing I will say for McGwire is that the way he&#8217;s acting now does seem to be hiding due to shame.  That at least shows he might regret it or at least feels some guilt and shame, yes weak for not stepping up, but I kinda feel for the guy in a small way.  Bonds, I would highly doubt will ever feel anything other than that this world owes HIM something, as he is our God and we should all bow down to him&#8230; Massive ego, that is why no-one likes him.</p>
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		<title>By: Doreen</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/24/no-amateurs-in-the-clubhouse-please/#comment-965</link>
		<dc:creator>Doreen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 22:53:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/24/no-amateurs-in-the-clubhouse-please/#comment-965</guid>
		<description>Ross, thanks for your answer regarding AT&#38;T Park (and also thanks for the current name of the stadium) and Barry Bonds.

I don't know about Clemens and steroids, but I'm not naive enough to be surprised if it's true.  What I do think is it's a sad, sad thing that players of Clemens' and Bonds' absolute talent and dominance of the game felt a need to be bigger than the game.  Bonds probably would have beaten the record without using steroids, and ironically may not have been plagued with the particular injuries he's now suffering from.  Or maybe not.  But he sure would have been close.

The reason why Clemens gets some benefit of the doubt is that he's had a strong work ethic ALWAYS and no one has ever challenged that; in addition, he's been a good teammate, for the most part, during his career.  Again, I know he's not been a boyscout and he also has a big ego --he knows he's Roger Clemens.

I think one of the differences with Barry Bonds, and why he gets no sympathy, no benefit of any doubt, no nothin', is that he's NEVER been seen as a team player -- mostly a selfish guy who thinks his talent and his "pedigree" puts him on a plane above anyone else he plays or has played with.  He's arrogant, and I think that is what no one will ever be able to forgive him for.  Is it fair?  No, but that's human nature.  We can take conceit, but only with a grain of self-deprication.

Giambi "apologized."  Or at least you felt he was humbled a little by the experience.  Again, he's another guy you see as a team player.

McGwire I don't know enough about, but he's never seemed to get that whatever he took at least may have enhanced his performance.  But I also think he never expected to hit that many home runs; I think he, as much as all of us, got caught up in the hype and excitement of it all.  Add in the fact that it was a race with another player, it all became larger than life.  What seemed ridiculous with McGwire was his "performance" in front of Congress.  Perhaps he felt between a rock and a hard place, but there had to be a better way to handle it -- maybe he should have gotten better lawyers.  But the fact that's he's locked himself away speaks volumes.  It either says he's too ashamed to face the questions; or it can also say, he simply does not know how to handle it.  Either way, it's sad.

I have learned as I've gotten older that most of my "heros" from my youth (in many areas, not just sports) have not lived up to my idea of what I thought they were.  As long as I didn't read the "unauthorized biographies" or watch the 60-minute-type exposes, or actually listen to them open their mouths and sound so collossally stupid, I was okay.  But sometimes reality stinks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ross, thanks for your answer regarding AT&#038;T Park (and also thanks for the current name of the stadium) and Barry Bonds.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know about Clemens and steroids, but I&#8217;m not naive enough to be surprised if it&#8217;s true.  What I do think is it&#8217;s a sad, sad thing that players of Clemens&#8217; and Bonds&#8217; absolute talent and dominance of the game felt a need to be bigger than the game.  Bonds probably would have beaten the record without using steroids, and ironically may not have been plagued with the particular injuries he&#8217;s now suffering from.  Or maybe not.  But he sure would have been close.</p>
<p>The reason why Clemens gets some benefit of the doubt is that he&#8217;s had a strong work ethic ALWAYS and no one has ever challenged that; in addition, he&#8217;s been a good teammate, for the most part, during his career.  Again, I know he&#8217;s not been a boyscout and he also has a big ego&#8212;he knows he&#8217;s Roger Clemens.</p>
<p>I think one of the differences with Barry Bonds, and why he gets no sympathy, no benefit of any doubt, no nothin&#8217;, is that he&#8217;s NEVER been seen as a team player&#8212;mostly a selfish guy who thinks his talent and his &#8220;pedigree&#8221; puts him on a plane above anyone else he plays or has played with.  He&#8217;s arrogant, and I think that is what no one will ever be able to forgive him for.  Is it fair?  No, but that&#8217;s human nature.  We can take conceit, but only with a grain of self-deprication.</p>
<p>Giambi &#8220;apologized.&#8221;  Or at least you felt he was humbled a little by the experience.  Again, he&#8217;s another guy you see as a team player.</p>
<p>McGwire I don&#8217;t know enough about, but he&#8217;s never seemed to get that whatever he took at least may have enhanced his performance.  But I also think he never expected to hit that many home runs; I think he, as much as all of us, got caught up in the hype and excitement of it all.  Add in the fact that it was a race with another player, it all became larger than life.  What seemed ridiculous with McGwire was his &#8220;performance&#8221; in front of Congress.  Perhaps he felt between a rock and a hard place, but there had to be a better way to handle it&#8212;maybe he should have gotten better lawyers.  But the fact that&#8217;s he&#8217;s locked himself away speaks volumes.  It either says he&#8217;s too ashamed to face the questions; or it can also say, he simply does not know how to handle it.  Either way, it&#8217;s sad.</p>
<p>I have learned as I&#8217;ve gotten older that most of my &#8220;heros&#8221; from my youth (in many areas, not just sports) have not lived up to my idea of what I thought they were.  As long as I didn&#8217;t read the &#8220;unauthorized biographies&#8221; or watch the 60-minute-type exposes, or actually listen to them open their mouths and sound so collossally stupid, I was okay.  But sometimes reality stinks.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris NY</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/24/no-amateurs-in-the-clubhouse-please/#comment-962</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris NY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 22:41:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/24/no-amateurs-in-the-clubhouse-please/#comment-962</guid>
		<description>My point with the 70 year olds is that people in general are realizing that lifting some weights can have tremendous health effects, not just for meatheads in bodybuilding competitions or linebackers.  Yes, this is assisted with drugs for atheletes, and weekend warriors just looking to impress for that matter, can it still be done naturally as well, especially if the desired effects are to be built like Clemens.  Go to any gym and you'll see plenty of 44 year olds with his physique.  If they happened to be superstar pitchers from the time they were 21, I'm sure they'd still be pretty good now too.  yes, pretty good, not dominant, but he's one guy doing it.  If steroids were the answer, I have a feeling there would be more 44 year olds dominating now than there are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My point with the 70 year olds is that people in general are realizing that lifting some weights can have tremendous health effects, not just for meatheads in bodybuilding competitions or linebackers.  Yes, this is assisted with drugs for atheletes, and weekend warriors just looking to impress for that matter, can it still be done naturally as well, especially if the desired effects are to be built like Clemens.  Go to any gym and you&#8217;ll see plenty of 44 year olds with his physique.  If they happened to be superstar pitchers from the time they were 21, I&#8217;m sure they&#8217;d still be pretty good now too.  yes, pretty good, not dominant, but he&#8217;s one guy doing it.  If steroids were the answer, I have a feeling there would be more 44 year olds dominating now than there are.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris NY</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/24/no-amateurs-in-the-clubhouse-please/#comment-961</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris NY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 22:35:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/24/no-amateurs-in-the-clubhouse-please/#comment-961</guid>
		<description>I don't disagree that he's anomaly, but you have to realize he is also pitching in the NL.  I hope like hell he can dominate the same way back in the AL East, but I think it's only realistic to think his numbers are going to suffer.  Will he still do very well, yes, extremely well for a 44 year old, yes.  But if you don't think there's fat along with his changed body, look at his gut.  His body changed at least in part because of age, which is inevitable.  I highly doubt you can look honestly at the changes from a 21 year old boy to a 44 year old man and equate them to the changes Bonds and McGwire made literally overnight (and I'll even concede the same for Giambi).

The people who did accuse Clemens also accused Pettitte.  Now if you look at pictures of Pettitte, he looks exactly as he did when he broke in with the Yankees (just saw the 1996 opening day on YES over the weekend, no skinnier than he is now).  He is another one who had put on some weight but now that he's been on Clemens' workout program, has slimmed down, but his body does not look to have changed.

I won't balk at people bringing Clemens' name up in these conversations because of the sheer unlikelihood of what he's doing.  But, I will argue it is not some foregone conclusion like it is for Bonds, McGwire, Canseco, etc...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t disagree that he&#8217;s anomaly, but you have to realize he is also pitching in the NL.  I hope like hell he can dominate the same way back in the AL East, but I think it&#8217;s only realistic to think his numbers are going to suffer.  Will he still do very well, yes, extremely well for a 44 year old, yes.  But if you don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s fat along with his changed body, look at his gut.  His body changed at least in part because of age, which is inevitable.  I highly doubt you can look honestly at the changes from a 21 year old boy to a 44 year old man and equate them to the changes Bonds and McGwire made literally overnight (and I&#8217;ll even concede the same for Giambi).</p>
<p>The people who did accuse Clemens also accused Pettitte.  Now if you look at pictures of Pettitte, he looks exactly as he did when he broke in with the Yankees (just saw the 1996 opening day on YES over the weekend, no skinnier than he is now).  He is another one who had put on some weight but now that he&#8217;s been on Clemens&#8217; workout program, has slimmed down, but his body does not look to have changed.</p>
<p>I won&#8217;t balk at people bringing Clemens&#8217; name up in these conversations because of the sheer unlikelihood of what he&#8217;s doing.  But, I will argue it is not some foregone conclusion like it is for Bonds, McGwire, Canseco, etc&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ross</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/24/no-amateurs-in-the-clubhouse-please/#comment-959</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 22:31:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/24/no-amateurs-in-the-clubhouse-please/#comment-959</guid>
		<description>I meant so say "not lives" not "no". Also Chris, do these 70 year-olds still win the marathons they compete in? I would say no. There's a difference between hanging around and blowing away the competition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I meant so say &#8220;not lives&#8221; not &#8220;no&#8221;. Also Chris, do these 70 year-olds still win the marathons they compete in? I would say no. There&#8217;s a difference between hanging around and blowing away the competition.</p>
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