Posada says Bernie wants to return
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jan 24, 2007 
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The annual B.A.T. Dinner was last night in Manhattan. Jorge Posada was there and said he has been speaking to Bernie Williams over the winter. Bernie doesn’t want to retire and still wants to play with the Yankees.
It remains to be seen how that can work out.
“If he doesn’t come back as a Yankee, it would be tough to see him in another uniform,” Posada said. “I don’t think he would even consider that. . . . Bernie wants to be a Yankee forever.”
The Yankees seem to be hoping that Bernie will take the burden off them and retire. But you can’t blame Bernie for wanting to play if he thinks he can still play.
Meanwhile, Jim Leyritz ripped Randy Johnson.
If Bernie thinks he can still play he should find a team and go for it. No one will judge him. He turns down 4 mill to play?
Bernie should go to japan and hit 50 HR’s.
Bernie has to do what Bernie has to do. I’d rather Bernie play for another team then have to sit through another year of “I’m not getting playing time”, “This team has been looking to get rid of me since 2004″, and “Maybe this will open some eyes” after he has a good game.
I’d like to see Cash finish what he starte and dump Giambi’s contract and make Bernie the DH. Maybe we could get something from the A’s if we threw in cash And a minor leauger like Clippard.
I’m stunned at the stuff I read here at times.
If you dump Giambi’s contract, having lost Sheff and Giambi in the same offseason, and replaced their bats with Mientkiewicz and Bernie, the Yankees’ offense would have taken so large a hit that it could prove fatal.
I am sorry but I would much rather have Giambi’s offense over Bernie at DH. No way could you trade him to let Bernie be the everyday DH. As sad as it is its time for Bernie to move on. If he feels he can still play go for it. I am sure there are other teams out there that he could start for. However if the Yankees are going to trade Melky (and I agree his value will never be higher so this is the time to do it) then I would love to have Bernie back as the 4th OF and occasional DH.
Jack: Not happening. Giambi’s deal would be hard to deal and beyond that, he was productive last season. Why in the world would you want Bernie every day instead of Giambi?
First off when did Jim Leyritz become an ESPN analyst? Secondly who is he to rip Randy Johnson and say how he is looking forward to (life without Johnson) last time I checked he was not on the team.I do not think anyone can deny it was not a good fit and neither got out of the deal what they wanted but Jim Leyritz??
I agree, as much as we all love Bernie, at this stage of their careers, Giambi is much more productive.
As much as I see Melky’s value being at a peak, I think he’s only going to get better and will develop into an elite player, hold onto him. I think Cashman sees that and that’s why he’s hesitant. The guy is still only 22 and improving everyday.
The best answer I can think of for Bernie is too late to happen – 1 first basemen instead of the platoon.
I agree with you Chris but doubt that will happen, everybody loves Bernie and that clouds our judgments sometimes, Bernie is valuable but not in the same way Giambi or Melky are. Melky is a valuable trade chip but he is young and the future and I doubt Cash is gonna put that much pressure on Bernie when he has a guy who can develop in the Yankee environment as a back up to 3 great outfielders and play for years to come.
I could only see Cash letting go of someone else to make room for Bernie. Once again, we are just scratching the surface of all the info available to Cash and the Yank Brain Trust that they use to make their decisions. I told Peter in my initial email to him when I discovered this place that I thought Cashman was the Yanks MVP. I loved the moves he made last year and I am lovin him even more this year. Meanwhile, Theo, The Other Wunderkind has lost a step or two, mebbe more. We’ll know by the All Star break.
BJB
Of course Giambi would be more productive than Bernie, but the drop off other than power numbers wouldn’t be that severe. They have more than enough offense. Giambi is getting a LOT to be a one dimensional player. If anyone would take him, the Yanks would have a lot more flexibility with the lineup and get cheaper. Bernie would only be for a year.
I couldn’t agree more. As soon as they signed Mankiewicz, Bernie’s days were unfortunately up. I wish Andy Phillips had done more last year to earn that job full-time, that would be Bernie’s roster spot…
I think Cashman has always made great moves. Where he gets overshadowed or underrated is by the many bonehead moves that weren’t actually his, but moves forced by Tampa (Pavano may have been his move, but who could have seen a guy talking about “going to war for Mr. Torre” later crying that his butt hurts because he fell down during a play…). Now that Cash has full control, things are getting done right. When Steinbrenner eventually retires, I hope/pray Cashman retains the control he currently has.
Jack, the problem is that no-one is going to take Giambi without the Yankees absorbing a huge chunk of his contract, which I agree is too high for the player he is now. I never liked that contract for a guy who sucks at first base, especially considering the 2 legends he followed.
Jack,
The last two years, Giambi has produced an OBP of .440 and .413, compared to Bernie’s .321 and .332. It’s much more than just a power drop.
I agree with Gayle: Leyritz might be right about Randy Johnson, but who the hell is he to say anything? He’s not on this team anymore, and he hardly speaks for this team. His quote makes it sound like he had to catch Johnson every five days.
As someone pointed out, the idea that Bernie’s bat isn’t a huge drop-off from Giambi’s is ridiculous.
Giambi’s OPS over the last two years was .975 and .971. Bernie’s was .688 and .768.
Bernie has basically been reduced to a right-handed pinch-hitter.
I know it’s tough for baseball players to retire, but it’s hard to believe he would be satisfied with a small role on another team.
He should retire and they should have a big celebration for him on opening day.
I wish the Yankees hadn’t signed Mantikiewicz. Phillips could do the job defensively every day. He’s weak offensively, but the whole platoon isn’t that strong offensively anyway. The thing is, whoever isn’t playing that day is the bench guy, the pinch hitter, and I don’t know how Phillips, Mentkiewicz or even Phelps, for that matter, would be in that role. The Yankees’ bench is not gonna be that strong. On the days Melky doesn’t play, he’s the bench guy. I wonder how he’ll do in a pinch-hitting situation. No one thinks Bernie would be a good pinch hitter, and I guess historically he hasn’t been. What are the chances that could be improved just because if a guy knows that’s his job, he prepares mentally and physically for it?
You can’t dump Giambi. But, yeah, it would have been a good idea if somewhere along the line Bernie had been able to learn a little 1B. It might have given him some flexibility in this final stage of his career. It’s interesting how the game has changed; 1B used to be the position that aging outfielders who could still hit went to retire. I think it’s a good thing that 1B is recognized as important defensively these days, though.
The very sad reality is, keeping Bernie would be for Bernie’s sake (and us fans). He’s not an effective pinch-hitter, I don’t think anything would necessarily change that. That’s the role he was expecting last year, even if it ended up changing due to injury, and he wasn’t effective as a pinch-hitter. If they were able to keep him on the roster it would be in hopes of a couple flashes of his greatness in key moments, but they would be few and far between (not enough opportunity for him to play)… so finding a spot for him at this point would have really been more of a courtesy than a move to make the team better. And I’m not at all against giving a Yankee legend that courtesy. It just doesn’t look possible with this year’s roster. Plenty of if’s – if Andy Phillips could have sustained the good hitting he once showed last year, if Eric Duncan advanced as quickly as they first expected and were ready for the majors this year.., or if there had been a better right-handed hitting first baseman available to take the job… Unfortunately, none of those things happened and I don’t think we’ll see Bernie next year in the Bronx.
after making that post I googled Eric Duncan and found this.. interesting to see the top 10 prospect rankings from 2 years ago…
1. Eric Duncan, 3b
2. Robinson Cano, 2b
3. Philip Hughes, rhp
4. Steven White, rhp
5. Dioner Navarro, c
6. Christian Garcia, rhp
7. Marcos Vechionacci, inf
8. Melky Cabrera, of
9. Bronson Sardinha, 3b/of
10. Chien-Ming Wang, rhp
One thing that really annoys me about this situation with Bernie is that he CAN have a place on the team. He was a valuable contributor to the Yankees last year and I think he can be valuable this year. There is no need to have a platoon at first base and there is no reason to have Mike Myers taking up a roster spot for his occasional one-batter cameos from the bullpen.
Bernie is one of my favorite players, and I could accept this situation if it was because he was being kept off the roster for players the Yankees really need or who contribute more to the team than he can. I don’t think this is the case.
Chris, pretty interesting. There must have been ‘something’ to Duncan at one time; perhaps he’ll stay healthy and find it again this year. But I really doubt it. It is encouraging to see that Cabrera, Cano & Wang are all already helping the major league team; Hughes, is of course, still being counted on, and had Navarro not be traded away, he may have the backup role. Not too bad. It’s the only reason I have hope for Duncan.
You know, I doubt that Williams himself wants to be kept around as a courtesy. I’m sure he’d be able to play for another team with success in the same capacity he played for NY last season. Ultimately, it’s going to be up to Bernie if he plays with someone else or retire.
Problem is, you need defense at first that Mankiewicz offers and you need a right handed bat in that spot whenever you can get one because we have so many left-handed hitters. I agree it’s a waste, but seems like there wasn’t a better option available or Cashman would have done it. David Ortiz’ stats against Meyers pretty much sums up his spot on the roster:
AB H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS GIDP AVG OBP SLG OPS
9 2 0 0 1 3 1 2 0 0 0 .222 .300 .556 .856
Not saying I necessarily agree with it, but he is effective and Guidry had him being effective to righties as well, so he’s more than just an occasionaly lefty specialist, as witnessed at the end of last year.
Don’t get me wrong, I wish there were a spot for Bernie too. But I also understand that he won’t be as effective as he was last year without as much playing time, which he wouldn’t get unless 2 (not 1, two) outfielders get hurt again. The platoon thing at first is really what’s keeping him. I liked the idea of Mark Loretta for that spot and to serve as the utility infielder as well, that would’ve worked nice and gotten Bernie a spot, but I guess he didn’t like the idea of playing firstbase.
I hate to see talent wasted, but I don’t think I could stand to see Bernie wearing another uniform. The reality is, while he can still chase down some fly balls, he can’t throw and has lost more than a step out there. I do think he still has plenty of ability as a hitter and would be a great DH. Problem there comes back to signing a slugger with rocks for feet and hands to play first-base for a ton of money. Honestly, I’d also prefer to see Melky out in left as often as possible, which would create a need for Matsui to DH somewhat frequently (which probably won’t happen with stone-hands as the permanent DH).
Bottom line, we have too much hitting ability and not enough roster spots. I wish to God we Giambi could play a solid first-base, but he can’t and never could.
Jack
The drop-off in power numbers wouldn’t be that severe? Are you on crack?
Giambi out-slugged Bernie by over .120 last season and by nearly .170 the year before. That’s insane. Good thing Cashman’s the GM, and you’re just discussing this with us. Reality, man. It’s a good thing.
Who was the Yankee DH before Giambi arrived? Was it not possible at the time for Giambi to be signed as a DH? What kind of a first-baseman was he for the A’s? I know this is all water under the bridge, but I’m curious, because I don’t remember.
“Giambi is getting a LOT to be a one dimensional player.”
Which is why he’d be the DH….All he needs to do is swing the bat and get a hit or use his OBP to walk 120 times.
Re: Bernie: it’s going to get to the point where a lot of fans are going to resent Bernie for forcing the issue. He was told he would be a part time player last year and he still made an issue about his playing time.
On the flip side the Yankees need to stop stringing him along. I know he’s one of Joe’s boys, he’s a core member, yada yada yada, but as Flavor Flav says, “His time is up.”
Giambi is actually multi dimensional – he has power and he is constantly on base. Posting 30 plus homers per yr and 400 plus OBP is more than most players in the league do in their best season. Who cares if he bats 250 if his OBP is 420? I dont think their has been more than two seasons where Giambi wasnt in the top five in the AL in OBP.
This is why the yanks should not have signed mienky and signed Loretta or Aurilia instead. The platoon idea is stupid and a waste of a roster spot that could be used by someone who could help the team and not phelps or phillips. Plus, if we signed Loretta we wouldnt have had to bring back in Cairo at all. It is those moves which are now preventing bernie from being able to join the team.
He was a decent first baseman at best, always had his flaws and restrictions there. He’s just not been healthy enough the last couple years, so he’s even more of a liability out there… At the time they signed Giambi and let Tino leave to free-agency (didn’t pursue him), Giambi’s numbers were better than Tino’s, but not by a whole lot and Tino, a gold-glove caliber 1st baseman, had just carried the Yankees the year before. He was a lot cheaper, albeit older. At the time, Giambi was the reigning AL MVP and the prize of that year’s free agent class. But he’s just not a good first baseman, period. As was often the case at that point in time, the main mistake was the number of years we gave him… I’d have rather kept Tino for a few more years and gotten someone else when it came time for him to retire. We’ve been playing this platoon game at first for years because Giambi never was good enough there.
Mark Texiera could end up in the Bronx in ’08…… gold glove winner and Silver Slugger winner (twice each), free agent next year I believe.
As Chris NY suggested above, perhaps Loretta did not want to play 1B, or maybe just not play in NY. Don’t know about Aurilia. The possibility always exists that Cashman did try and sign some of these players, but they either turned him down, or asked for too much. You shouldn’t assume the Yankees didn’t go after guys just because they ended up signing somewhere else. Give some credit here. If we think up these things, don’t you think the people who get paid to do so think of at least some of them, too?
Dave, I agree completely, the Loretta idea would have been better all around. I’m not sure why that didn’t happen, but I think it was because he wanted to stay at 2nd and got a better offer. But who knows, he’s still a backup, could’ve been basically an everyday starter at 1st in NY..
well said Doreen.. fact is the only reason we know any of this is because Cashman already tried those routes….. at least that’s the only reason I ever read about the Loretta thing.
“Jack
The drop-off in power numbers wouldn’t be that severe? Are you on crack?”
I said Other than the power numbers. Did the crack smoke get in your eyes and you couldn’t read? If Giambi were traded (which I conceed will never happen due to his ridiculous contract) it would allow Matsui and Bernie to spend some time at DH and give melky some time in left. Remember, we didn’t have matsui of Shef for most of last year and Abreau for only half the year. We could afford to lose Giambi annd put that money to better use elsewhere.
Jack
Did you watch Bernie last year? You would replace Giambi’s .413 OPS with Bernie’s .332? Did you see Bernie try to field or throw or run last year? That’s brilliant. Stick to whatever it is you do and leave the baseball to people who know something about the game.
You want a DH you gets on base and hits for power. Bernie does none of those anymore. Giambi’s one of the best DHs in the game. End of story.
No, we actually couldn’t. The Yankees would be an average team minus Giambi. Plus, who is this money going to anyway? There are no good free agents left and I don’t think the Yankees are going be able to acquire another salary dump gem like they did last year.
Can’t really argue with Giambi being one of the best DH’s in the game, he is. But is a DH worth 17M a year? I’m not sure, but I know Big Sloppi up in that wanabe city in Mass gets 13M/year and, as much as we may not want to admit it, he’s probably the best DH in the game… Jim Thome’s getting 14M, but he signed that contract as a 1st basemen also.
We keep Giambi and he continues to be a valuable asset, as much as we might wish he was a little cheaper or could play first-base… it is what it is and we need him.
There is absolutely no way at this point that we can afford to lose Giambi, he’s our power hitter that comes through in the clutch (as opposed to ARod so far). Besides, he’s a good guy in the clubhouse and his OBP in conjunction with the OBP of Damon, Jeter, and Abreu is devastating for opposing pitchers to deal with, especially with ARod, Matsui, and Posada ready to drive those guys home.
If we trade Melky, yeah, bring back Bernie, but otherwise I don’t think so. And I don’t see Melky being traded at this point, the Mike Gonzalez train has left the station and we weren’t on it. I think we also seem to have an inflated idea of how good Melky is because baseball people are getting a little too carried away lately and I think have been spoiled by what has happened with the emergence of great rookies in 05 and 06. I hate to tell you, but that doesn’t happen very often and it’s not a good idea to start counting too much on it. I do not believe Melky is going to develop into a superstar, he’s a medium talent- at best. I like the fact that he and Cano are friends, but I think Cano would be fine without Melky. However, I don’t think we should trade Melky just to bring back Bernie, as at this point, I think Melky is clearly the better player and brings great defense which we otherwise don’t really have in the outfield other than Abreu (as long as he’s nowhere near a wall). But if we get the chance to bring in a great reliever like Gonzalez for Melky, we’ve got to do it because Melky’s value will never be higher and Bernie’s a pretty darn good plan B for our fourth outfielder.
You could be right, but I’m just looking at how much Melky improved in the field in a short amount of time and the fact that he did a pretty decent (not good or great) job with the bat, combined with his age and the praise he got from minor league coaches on his hitting ability. Add to that his plate discipline and demeanor, which seem to be ahead of the curve for his age. If his upside isn’t much more than we’re seeing, I agree he’d be a medium talent, but I think signs point to him being at least an above-average talent, if not the superstar we are all creating in our heads…
I too like the energy he and Cano bring as well, and they seem to feed off of each other.
Could we live without Melky, absolutely, but I’m not so sure it would be as small a loss as some thing, or as big a loss as others….. Either way, I say keep him and see what develops over the next 2 or 3 years.
This whole Melky’s value will never be higher phrase is one many like to wrap their hands around but I really find it hard to even consider that phrase applicable when summarizing the talent of a rookie.
Trading Melky for anyone at this point would be a critical mistake for this coming season and for many to come.
Bernie Williams has been a tremendous Yankee but unfortunately his skills have diminished substantially so that his game is one dimensional such thatg he might be a right handed DH. But the Yankees do not have a roster spot for that position.
Jason Giambi has been decent as a DH and poor as a 1b. I am afraid his body is breaking down more but his contract makes it difficult to move him elsewhere.
The remaining Giambi contract from Cot’s Contracts:
2007:$21M,
2008:$21M,
2009:$22M club option ($5M buyout)
I would be much more comfortable with Matsui, Bernie, and Damon taking most of the DH bats this coming year. But that is just not likely to happen.
Teixera is not officially a free agent until after the 2008 season. Thus, it will most likely be two yrs before we can get him. Why did we not sign Loretta or Aurilia for those two yrs? Maybe they were offered more elsewhere (although Loretta didnt get much) and maybe they didnt want to play in NY but if we could have gotten one of them, we should have.
That Giambi contract is really only two more yrs and we can just buy it out so he is on the team for two more yrs – no doubt about that. And he still had fantastic numbers last yr so I dunno why so many people are ready to trade him. Without sheff, we have exactly two power hitters now in arod and Giambi. Everyone else probably wont hit more than 25. Giambi is still a huge threat at the plate and a core part of our 2007 lineup. Remove Giambi for Bernie and the lineup isnt nearly as intimidating.
Ok – I have a radical idea with a bit of logic behind it.
Melky played very well this year for a 21 year old rookie. Those 2 facts suggest he’s got a lot of good baseball ahead of him for a lot of years. My main concern for a very young player like this is he needs to play. And with Giambi at DH and the 3 OF’s we’ve got, if everybody’d healthy he’s not going to play – he’d be lucky to get 150 AB’s. This is the American League – PH opportunities are not something requiring huge planning. Can’t see so little PT being the thing Melky needs at this stage of his career.
I also agree with Anthony above that Bernie could still be effective as a 4th OF in NY. He won’t play much either, but for him that’s not an issue. The starters aren’t the kind of guys who need defensive replacements. On the PH role thing, think about the players viewed as good pinch hitters – very few of them were near the hitter Bernie was before they got that role. So don’t be so sure about how Bernie could perform there. Lastly, take a look at AL OF hitting stats for 2006. Bernie certainly profiles as a very effective reserve – in the top 35 in BA (over 100 AB’s), HR’s, etc.
So I suggest Melky goes where he can play everyday and continue to develop – Scranton. Anybody in the OF gets hurt, up he comes. But he ‘s still young and needs to play, so that’s my take. We don’t need very good players watching the game every day. That’s a reserve’s job – Bernie’s job.
And when did all you Yankee fans start worrying about payroll so much?
I think nyyfaninlaaland has an interesting idea. Does anyone know if Melky can still be sent down to develop more? I’ve worried about the same thing as far as seeing Melky’s growth stunted because he doesn’t get regular playing time, though I think between Abreu, Matsui, Damon, and Giambi, it shouldn’t be too difficult to rotate Melky in there on a semi-regular basis. But if those four guys do get hot around the same time, Melky’s not going to be playing at all. Sometimes I think that’s what killed Andy Phillips’ chances of developing into something more than what he is.
I’d also like to add that I think position player prospects are really not as necessary to hold on to, there are plenty of them out there. Just look at our offense- we only developed Jeter, Cano, and Posada out of our regulars. We can easily pick up free agents who can get the job done. Pitching prospects are the ones we really need to hold on to, and it seems like Cash is doing that. So if we don’t trade Melky we should ask ourselves if we are taking an unnecessary risk that he won’t develop when we might be able to get something great for him and always replace him with one of the many outstanding outfielders that will be entering the market in the coming years. I, for one, would much rather see Andruw Jones for example manning an outfield spot than Melky Cabrera. Right there we could have Abreu’s replacement for the ’08 season. We also have Jose Tabata on the rise and he should be ready to play by the time Damon’s and Mastui’s contracts run out- which is still three more seasons away and a lot could happen between then and now.
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