Comments on: All-Star game set; Bernie pondered http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/31/all-star-game-set-bernie-pondered/ A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:23:49 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Chris NY http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/31/all-star-game-set-bernie-pondered/comment-page-3/#comment-2065 Chris NY Thu, 01 Feb 2007 17:18:18 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/31/all-star-game-set-bernie-pondered/#comment-2065 I really liked the idea of getting Mark Loretta as a 1b/utility infielder, but that never happened for one reason or another. I don't know if he has experience at positions other than 2B, but he's a good fielder and a tough at bat... Cairo plays a decent 1B, but his production would probably be lower than Mink.. I really liked the idea of getting Mark Loretta as a 1b/utility infielder, but that never happened for one reason or another. I don’t know if he has experience at positions other than 2B, but he’s a good fielder and a tough at bat…

Cairo plays a decent 1B, but his production would probably be lower than Mink..

]]> By: Russell http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/31/all-star-game-set-bernie-pondered/comment-page-3/#comment-2060 Russell Thu, 01 Feb 2007 16:58:52 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/31/all-star-game-set-bernie-pondered/#comment-2060 I know its probably a sin to bring this up but Newsday suggested as a long shot to bring Bernie back (and a reason why he could have a shot in spring training) is if Miguel Cairo wins the righty spot at first base, leaving the spot open for Bernie. This would mean that if A-Rod, Jeter, or Cano needed a day off or went out with injury, Minky would be the every day first baseman and Cairo would play utility. This doesn't sound as crazy as Bernie playing first but still probably unlikely to happen. I know its probably a sin to bring this up but Newsday suggested as a long shot to bring Bernie back (and a reason why he could have a shot in spring training) is if Miguel Cairo wins the righty spot at first base, leaving the spot open for Bernie. This would mean that if A-Rod, Jeter, or Cano needed a day off or went out with injury, Minky would be the every day first baseman and Cairo would play utility. This doesn’t sound as crazy as Bernie playing first but still probably unlikely to happen.

]]> By: Chris NY http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/31/all-star-game-set-bernie-pondered/comment-page-2/#comment-2057 Chris NY Thu, 01 Feb 2007 16:47:30 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/31/all-star-game-set-bernie-pondered/#comment-2057 Yup, and despite a few baserunning blunders last year, A-Rod's a base stealing threat also.. Yup, and despite a few baserunning blunders last year, A-Rod’s a base stealing threat also..

]]> By: Russell http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/31/all-star-game-set-bernie-pondered/comment-page-2/#comment-2043 Russell Thu, 01 Feb 2007 15:53:57 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/31/all-star-game-set-bernie-pondered/#comment-2043 Plus, with Sheffield gone and Melky in there (possibly every day giving the OFers breaks) we could have more speed on the bases. The Abreu acquisition doesnt hurt since he is a speedster also. I can't wait, with damon, jeter, and abreu leading off, that is plenty of speed on the bases for giambi and arod to hit around. Plus, with Sheffield gone and Melky in there (possibly every day giving the OFers breaks) we could have more speed on the bases. The Abreu acquisition doesnt hurt since he is a speedster also. I can’t wait, with damon, jeter, and abreu leading off, that is plenty of speed on the bases for giambi and arod to hit around.

]]> By: Chris NY http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/31/all-star-game-set-bernie-pondered/comment-page-2/#comment-2038 Chris NY Thu, 01 Feb 2007 15:28:14 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/31/all-star-game-set-bernie-pondered/#comment-2038 Rich, I get what you're saying about Jeter and that may hold true much of the time, but "the flip," the catch that took him into the stands in a crucial game against boston, the over the shoulder catches on pop-flies, etc... are hardly routine plays. They may be the exception compared to other plays he's diving for that others may not have to dive for, but he's hardly a bad SS defensively. I'll concede he may not be elite defensively, but no way is he bad at the position. rbizzler - I get that A-rod had an off year by his standards and our standards for him, but his numbers certainly were in the category of productive and just about every other team in the league would take those #'s from 3B. One thing everyone seems to be missing, possibly because it won't happen, is that the Yankees (Cashman, Torre at least) feel that Andy Phillips is a better hitter than we've seen. He showed flashes of it last year, then went cold and had injury issues. Part of this is that they want to see if they're right about his offense, and his defense is pretty good, certainly far and above Giambi, but not elite. Russell, I agree about the fundamental baseball and I think the Yankees were MUCH better at this last year, due to 2 main things - 1.) Torre wanted it that way and stressed it from spring training on, 2.) they had to when they lost Matsui and Sheff. Also, we may not have any barn burners, but Jeter did steal over 30 bases last year, Damon stole a few despite the injured toe (and you'd expect will be more active this year if he can stay healthy..), even Melky proved to be a good baserunner with his marginal speed (not from a stealing bases perspective but baserunning...). We may not have the conventional speedster, but guys like Jeter and Damon know how to get things done, get the right jump, when to go, etc... to cause the same issues you mentioned and create runs. Very long thread, great comments everyone... Rich, I get what you’re saying about Jeter and that may hold true much of the time, but “the flip,” the catch that took him into the stands in a crucial game against boston, the over the shoulder catches on pop-flies, etc… are hardly routine plays. They may be the exception compared to other plays he’s diving for that others may not have to dive for, but he’s hardly a bad SS defensively. I’ll concede he may not be elite defensively, but no way is he bad at the position.

rbizzler – I get that A-rod had an off year by his standards and our standards for him, but his numbers certainly were in the category of productive and just about every other team in the league would take those #’s from 3B.

One thing everyone seems to be missing, possibly because it won’t happen, is that the Yankees (Cashman, Torre at least) feel that Andy Phillips is a better hitter than we’ve seen. He showed flashes of it last year, then went cold and had injury issues. Part of this is that they want to see if they’re right about his offense, and his defense is pretty good, certainly far and above Giambi, but not elite.

Russell, I agree about the fundamental baseball and I think the Yankees were MUCH better at this last year, due to 2 main things – 1.) Torre wanted it that way and stressed it from spring training on, 2.) they had to when they lost Matsui and Sheff. Also, we may not have any barn burners, but Jeter did steal over 30 bases last year, Damon stole a few despite the injured toe (and you’d expect will be more active this year if he can stay healthy..), even Melky proved to be a good baserunner with his marginal speed (not from a stealing bases perspective but baserunning…). We may not have the conventional speedster, but guys like Jeter and Damon know how to get things done, get the right jump, when to go, etc… to cause the same issues you mentioned and create runs.

Very long thread, great comments everyone…

]]> By: Jake http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/31/all-star-game-set-bernie-pondered/comment-page-2/#comment-2024 Jake Thu, 01 Feb 2007 14:08:32 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/31/all-star-game-set-bernie-pondered/#comment-2024 Bernie would not make a good 5th OF. He doesnt have a place on the roster. You cant live in the past as a team. Bernie would not make a good 5th OF. He doesnt have a place on the roster. You cant live in the past as a team.

]]> By: Russell http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/31/all-star-game-set-bernie-pondered/comment-page-2/#comment-1996 Russell Thu, 01 Feb 2007 05:04:09 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/31/all-star-game-set-bernie-pondered/#comment-1996 Mike - I agree with the Yankees needing a more BALANCED lineup 100% My friend preaches this to me all the time and you are both right. I do think that the Yankees have a good balance of offense and defense... except the 1b and backup catcher, everyone is + offensively and defensively: melky is a great outfielder, damon will run through a wall for us, abreu's got a great arm, a-rod (when right) has a gun at third and can stand there with the best of em, Jeter needs no explanation, Cano is a huge surprise for someone so young (he seems to have learned a bit from A-Rod and Jeter in terms of how quickly he releases the ball) and Posada had an incredible season last year. So, defensively, I would not say they are in horrible shape. The one glaring asset that appears to be missing is that young speedy guy who, when on the lineup, is a headache for the pitcher because he could steal any time he wants to (Jose Reyes comes to mind). The Yanks have SOME speed, but they don't have anyone near Reyes; that's what makes the Mets so dangerous. I thought the Yankees were getting that with Damon but (this is not a knock on Damon) he developed the problem with his toe and after that never appeared to me to be the major threat on the basepads that they were hoping for. He makes up for this though with an increase in homeruns, a positive attitude, and a passion for the game. I would like to see a more fundamental baseball team this year and I believe the Yankees have the right set of characters to do it. Jeter sure knows fundamental baseball and should share some of his wisdom (if he hasnt already) About Ohlendorf... a few people said the Yankees didnt pull away well in the Johnson trade. I think that dumping his salary and adding 4 guys (including a decent major league reliever) is amazing. Good job cash! I hope scott bradley was right about ohlendorf :) Mike – I agree with the Yankees needing a more BALANCED lineup 100% My friend preaches this to me all the time and you are both right. I do think that the Yankees have a good balance of offense and defense… except the 1b and backup catcher, everyone is + offensively and defensively: melky is a great outfielder, damon will run through a wall for us, abreu’s got a great arm, a-rod (when right) has a gun at third and can stand there with the best of em, Jeter needs no explanation, Cano is a huge surprise for someone so young (he seems to have learned a bit from A-Rod and Jeter in terms of how quickly he releases the ball) and Posada had an incredible season last year. So, defensively, I would not say they are in horrible shape. The one glaring asset that appears to be missing is that young speedy guy who, when on the lineup, is a headache for the pitcher because he could steal any time he wants to (Jose Reyes comes to mind). The Yanks have SOME speed, but they don’t have anyone near Reyes; that’s what makes the Mets so dangerous. I thought the Yankees were getting that with Damon but (this is not a knock on Damon) he developed the problem with his toe and after that never appeared to me to be the major threat on the basepads that they were hoping for. He makes up for this though with an increase in homeruns, a positive attitude, and a passion for the game.

I would like to see a more fundamental baseball team this year and I believe the Yankees have the right set of characters to do it. Jeter sure knows fundamental baseball and should share some of his wisdom (if he hasnt already)

About Ohlendorf… a few people said the Yankees didnt pull away well in the Johnson trade. I think that dumping his salary and adding 4 guys (including a decent major league reliever) is amazing. Good job cash! I hope scott bradley was right about ohlendorf :)

]]> By: Mike S. http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/31/all-star-game-set-bernie-pondered/comment-page-2/#comment-1992 Mike S. Thu, 01 Feb 2007 04:46:04 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/31/all-star-game-set-bernie-pondered/#comment-1992 Rich. I am not saying that the Yanks are placing a self-imposed limit on offensive production. But there is more to the game than just offense. I have argued for a few years that the team was getting too one-dimensional. They have sacrificed a balanced offense for too many players who fit only one mode of play. The free agent pickups they had for a few years seemed to be a bunch of clones--all offensively oriented with little attention played to how they played defense. I have to ask you, do you want only a lineup with power hitters? Do you want nobody who can a) run the bases well b) plays good defense c) is more of a contact hitter who may not have the power of others but provides better balance? For years the Yanks have had a lineup that was NOT balanced. They had no one who could hit and run or take the ball the other way, and no one who could bunt runners along. What they could use is a more BALANCED lineup. The Yanks won five straight WS titles with Joe Collins at 1b for goodness sakes. Check Joe Collins' numbers out sometime. You say that a potent offense makes it easier to pitch my decreasing the margin for error. I'd like to ask this. What about a great defense? Doesn't THAT decrease the margin for error also? How do you explain Ozzie Smith? How would you explain Mark Belanger on the excellent Orioles teams of 1969-1971? How do you explain the numbers I gave you on Hernandez, Mark Grace, Tino's 2000 or Scott Spiezio? I think your post of 6:23 contradicts your 6:20 post. I do need to ask if you even looked at the numbers of Sturm, Buddy Hassett or Joe Collins. The Yanks made do in spite of them, and the Yanks could make do in spite of Mientkiewicz. Moving to first isn't that easy--ask Piazza. You have to know when to and when not to cut a ball off. Making the 3-6-3 isn't easy if you are right handed. The adjustment isn't as easy as some would make it appear. Russell---the college coach and former Yankees (and Mariners) catcher who you are thinking of is Scott Bradley. This is regarding Ohlendorff. Ohlendorff's high school coach, by the way, was Keith Moreland. This has been a great thread, regardless of whether you agree or disagree with various viewpoints. Kudos to all. Rich. I am not saying that the Yanks are placing a self-imposed limit on offensive production. But there is more to the game than just offense. I have argued for a few years that the team was getting too one-dimensional. They have sacrificed a balanced offense for too many players who fit only one mode of play. The free agent pickups they had for a few years seemed to be a bunch of clones–all offensively oriented with little attention played to how they played defense. I have to ask you, do you want only a lineup with power hitters? Do you want nobody who can a) run the bases well b) plays good defense c) is more of a contact hitter who may not have the power of others but provides better balance? For years the Yanks have had a lineup that was NOT balanced. They had no one who could hit and run or take the ball the other way, and no one who could bunt runners along. What they could use is a more BALANCED lineup.

The Yanks won five straight WS titles with Joe Collins at 1b for goodness sakes. Check Joe Collins’ numbers out sometime.

You say that a potent offense makes it easier to pitch my decreasing the margin for error. I’d like to ask this. What about a great defense? Doesn’t THAT decrease the margin for error also? How do you explain Ozzie Smith? How would you explain Mark Belanger on the excellent Orioles teams of 1969-1971? How do you explain the numbers I gave you on Hernandez, Mark Grace, Tino’s 2000 or Scott Spiezio? I think your post of 6:23 contradicts your 6:20 post.

I do need to ask if you even looked at the numbers of Sturm, Buddy Hassett or Joe Collins. The Yanks made do in spite of them, and the Yanks could make do in spite of Mientkiewicz.

Moving to first isn’t that easy–ask Piazza. You have to know when to and when not to cut a ball off. Making the 3-6-3 isn’t easy if you are right handed. The adjustment isn’t as easy as some would make it appear.

Russell—the college coach and former Yankees (and Mariners) catcher who you are thinking of is Scott Bradley. This is regarding Ohlendorff. Ohlendorff’s high school coach, by the way, was Keith Moreland.

This has been a great thread, regardless of whether you agree or disagree with various viewpoints. Kudos to all.

]]> By: Russell http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/31/all-star-game-set-bernie-pondered/comment-page-2/#comment-1991 Russell Thu, 01 Feb 2007 04:42:05 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/31/all-star-game-set-bernie-pondered/#comment-1991 This is kinda what I was hanging onto (article from Pete Caldera of NorthJersey.com): Asked if he'd be willing to try out as a first baseman, Williams would only say, "We haven't reached that point yet." Anyways, I just don't see the point of giving Bernie Williams a shot at making the team if there is no conceivable room for him in the first place. I might be hanging onto this too long but if Torre wants to give him a shot, he must have something in mind... right? Or are they going to give him a shot so he can turn it down and maybe that is the graceful storybook exit that the Yankees are planning? This is kinda what I was hanging onto (article from Pete Caldera of NorthJersey.com):

Asked if he’d be willing to try out as a first baseman, Williams would only say, “We haven’t reached that point yet.”

Anyways, I just don’t see the point of giving Bernie Williams a shot at making the team if there is no conceivable room for him in the first place. I might be hanging onto this too long but if Torre wants to give him a shot, he must have something in mind… right? Or are they going to give him a shot so he can turn it down and maybe that is the graceful storybook exit that the Yankees are planning?

]]> By: NIck http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/31/all-star-game-set-bernie-pondered/comment-page-2/#comment-1990 NIck Thu, 01 Feb 2007 04:35:26 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/01/31/all-star-game-set-bernie-pondered/#comment-1990 This argument is as dumb as the back up catcher role. Whoever makes it out of camp isn't gonna impact a game much. Any back up catcher we get is going to bat .220-.240 drive in 20 and hit 5 homers in about 30-40 games. Maybe slight deviations in defense but people waste more time talking about it and I waste more time scrolling threw the discussion than the back up catcher is going to play. This argument is as dumb as the back up catcher role. Whoever makes it out of camp isn’t gonna impact a game much. Any back up catcher we get is going to bat .220-.240 drive in 20 and hit 5 homers in about 30-40 games. Maybe slight deviations in defense but people waste more time talking about it and I waste more time scrolling threw the discussion than the back up catcher is going to play.

]]>