Today in the Journal News
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- February
- 21
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Derek Jeter wasn’t thrilled he had to talk about his relationship with Alex Rodriguez.
Meanwhile, Bernie Williams is playing the blues in Westchester and waiting for a call that isn’t coming. Also within this noteboook is an update on Johnny Damon’s health.
Don’t forget, vote for the poll over to the right. Thanks.
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on Wednesday, February 21st, 2007 at 7:37 am by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Wait a minute… Joy Enriquez? Looks like it’s time for another blog poll: Is Joy Enriquez worth fighting over? Sadly, no. (I mean, she’s cute but Helen of Troy she ain’t, tu sabes?)
I know Sheff isn’t a Yankee anymore, but this article about Sheff ripping Torre.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/02212007/sports
/yankees/surly_sheff_yankees_george_king.htm
He’s another one that needs to shut his mouth…. he had fans here for most of 3 years, now he’s a schmuck.
Not to mention, wasn’t he trying very hard to get to Steinbrenner so he could come back to the Yankees? Puh-leeze!
Anyway, I guess it’s really important for the out-of-town media to get their digs against the Yankees. The higher you are, the more people try to bring you down.
the Bernie thing still sucks…..
Yeah, the Bernie thing saddens me a lot. It shouldn’t be ending like this.
While I wish there was a way for Bernie to go out on his terms, right now, the make up of the team just doesn’t give him that option that he wants. His refusal to even decide on the situation at present, seems to show a small lack of professionalism here. I understand he’s hurt and feels there should have been more of an effort on the Yankees to keep him, but seeing how the team is made up, realistically, I just don’t see how. And Bernie has been in the business long enough and seen enough teammates come and go (Paul O’Neil?) to realize that in the end, that it unfortunately comes down to putting the best team on the field. I wish there was a way for Bernie to retire on his own terms, but he needs to come to the realization that he’s had it good for a long time and now it’s time to let the people who he called teammates and more importantly friends move on without distraction.
Hey, the Yanks released Ruth, and check out how Rizzuto’s career ended.
As much as I love Bernie,
Careers do end.
Agree that the Bernie think sucks, the problem is that he really doesn’t fit in anymore. Just wish things could be handled better by all sides.
Baseball Prospectus Nate Silver says Jeter’s defense is overrated.
http://baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=215
Enough already with Jeter and A-Rod. And Shefield and The Unit and (now) Bubba (for Pete’s sake)…CAN’T WE JUST PLAY BALL !!!!!!
I dont have a problem if the Yankees have better options on the bench than Bernie, who would have more to offer to the team… but with the players in camp, i just dont see it.
I think Bernie is just being too stubborn for his own good. I’m not gonna sit and whine, though, because if he really wanted to play this year, he’d have taken the opportunity and run with it… there was no way Torre would have made the personal calls he did and been so candid in the papers about doing so, and then turn around and cut him… Torre, for better or worse, is too loyal a manager like that.
i was kind of hoping that was the attitude Bernie would take, and i’m a little disappointed he chose to play it out like he did.
Agree with Turn Two. Joe hasn’t been begging Bernie to come to camp only so he could pull the rug out from under him at the end. If he was in shape and healthy he was going to make the team, which by the way would have pissed off Cashman.
I think Bernie has gotten horrible advice from Boras. It’s just like him to try to create leverage where none exists, and he’s making Bernie look like a fool in the process.
pssst bob – it’s still spring training… no games yet.
by the by, MLBTradeRumors thinks there’s a possibility that Ichiro reaches free agnecy next year (not happy with all that losing) and if the Yankees don’t exercise Abreu’s 16 mil option next year, Ichiro could be our new leadoff.
Honestly, I have to wait and see how Abreu does this year before tanking him in favor or Ichiro. Abreu’s style of AB fits in well with the current lineup – as would Ichiro’s I’m sure… Guess it’s a tossup.
Bottom line on the Bernie thing. Cash wants Melky to get alot of ab and he doesn’t trust Joe to give Melky most of the ab if Bernie is there.
Having Matsui, Igawa and then Ichiro would make the Yankees kings of Japan – I say if it’s possible we do it, depending on how Abreu performs this year.
any news on Ichiro is absolutely pure speculation. If they are going through the trouble to try and get Melky ABs, wouldn’t you think, if they dont pick up Abreu’s option, Melky would have first shot at RF?
and of course, this is assuming Ichiro would want to come east, and as we saw with Jason Schmidt, some players accustomed to the west coast just dont want to play here. I dont think Ichiro would, considering there are teams on the west coast who would certainly bid on his services.
Rahdy hater- “which by the way would have pissed off Cashman”
Cashman is the GM and those kind of decisions are his to make. Torres sentimentality is just one of the reasons I hope he is gone after this year
And here we are in Spring Training and New Yawkahs are still writing and reading about Sheffield. I remember predicting that and being told it wouldn’t happen.
There was some discussion about Ichiro on this site before. I don’t see the point of signing him in his declining years when we already have a terrific leadoff guy by the name of Derek Jeter (career .920 OPS leading off innings, compared to .801 OPS for Ichiro). Sad to say, because he’s a cool player, but Ichiro is overrated. And thus he will cost a ton.
Bernie’s *definitely* being too stubborn for his own good – I don’t know if it’s because of Boras’s advice or his own pride, but he’s not being rational. Take that guaranteed contract elsewhere Bernie, we won’t mind.
I think Boras has conceded there is no leverage here. Further, Bernie didn’t make much last year, so there’s not much in it for Boras anyway. He’s said publicly Bernie doesn’t want to play anywhere else, so he’s given away any leverage. It’s not like the Yankees are after Bernie and he’s holding out for more money…… Bernie’s just being stubborn and doesn’t think he should have to “try out” for a team he’s been a legend for over many years, rightfully so, except that current circumstances dictate that it be necessary.
Again, not to say it’s completely the Yankees’ fault, but the pinstripes have become the image of Major League Baseball’s core deficiencies — a corporation structured behind the ideals of the Republican party where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
It’s 2007 thinking spreading nationwide. And the Yankees are to blame. It’s alwasy the Yankees Fault not the Redsox or Cubs and Mets
In 1998, the year the Yankees won 114 regular season games and the first of three straight World Series, it was the Orioles, not the Yankees, who had the highest opening day salary. In 1999 and 2000, the payroll disparity between the Yankees and the other top teams was minimal. Those Yankees teams won more because of heart and determination than money. Since passing the $100 million mark in 2001, the Yankees have not won a World Series. From 1982-1995,the Yankees had plenty of resourses and yet they won nothing during those years.
Ofcourse, having a higher payroll puts them at an advantage over some teams. But, there are many other wealthy teams such as the Angles, Cubs, Dodgers, Mets, White Sox and Red Sox, just to name a few.
People look at the Yankees wealth as the cause of all that is wrong with the world. They assume that the Yankees money is the only reason for their success. Yet they fail to recognize that perhaps it could be the other way around – that their wealth is a byproduct of a nearly a century’s worth of dominance. Why shouldn’t their sustained success be rewarded? Why should the Yankees have to share their money, which they earn, with the Pittsburgh’s and Tampa Bays of the world? Why is it the Yankee’s fault that the Pirates or the Brewers dont win?
The fact is that they are a scapegoat for fans of other teams who blame the Yankees for the failures of their own teams.
The worst New York fans are the Mets fans, not the Yankee fans. The Mets fans act like they are some power house in baseball when they haven’t won in forever. Look at their payroll as well, they can’t buy a championship either.
Here’s the thing, I’ve been thinking, regarding Bernie “trying out.” It’s really not a matter of Bernie showing what he can do; everyone knows what Bernie can do. Unless Joe would just keep sending him up to pinch hit in spring training situations, which is about the only thing that you don’t know if Bernie can do, at least for sure. What has to happen is they have to decide Phillips AND Phelps can’t cut it; or one of the three 1B has to go down with an injury and the other one has to show he can’t cut it. So, if I’m Bernie, I’m thinking, maybe, “it’s not really up to me.” The situation is dictated by things NOT under his control. Why put yourself into that kind of a situation? I’m not saying that’s what he’s thinking – who could know that? — but perhaps that’s a consideration.
And if he’s in shape, been working ou, what’s the difference if he waits another week (or two) to see how things seem to be shaking out? How great a shape does he have to be in to sit on the bench 80% of the time, anyway?
That all said, this whole situation is just sad and uncomfortable.
Mets fans = Red Sox fans. They have the same mentality, envy, jealousy, and no real pride in their own team. They have to hate the Yankees and Yankee fans because of their own misery and point to ignorant rants about “buying” this and that like the ones you mentioned to justify their hatred.
The Yankees are the worst in all of sports when they win and the worst in all of sports when they lose. When they win it’s because they’re supposed to and when they lose it’s because there is no way all of that high-priced talent can come together as a team. I guess you’re damned if you do and damned it you don’t. That’s a pretty rough standard to be held to.
The Yankees won four World Series in five years behind homegrown talent, including Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, Bernie Williams, Jorge Posada and Andy Pettitte.
There is no rule against spending the most to get back the most on your product, save luxury tax.
So people bitching that the Yankees can unfairly spend money are dead wrong. The owners of SEVERAL TEAMS have plenty of money but don’t want to spend it.
And after what the Sox did this offseason, no Boston fan can ever bring this argument up again.
awesome quote from Zimmer in an article on yankees.com
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....p;c_id=nyy
“Jeter goes out and gets 200 hits a year, plays like hell, plays hurt, nobody knows about it. That’s the kind of person he is. If that’s not leading, I don’t know what leading is.”
well said angry, Steinbrenner would starve his kids if he had to in order to win. No-one ever acknowledges how many years the yankees as a business have LOST money.
and I loved how much they bid for Matzusaka (except in that we didn’t get him) for the exact reason you mentioned, should close that argument.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....d=tab3pos2
You guys have to read this. It’s so funny. Ever wonder why Alex’s lips are always purple? Check out 1995. And the 2001 entry is the funniest thing I’ve read in a very, very long time.
Chris NY,
That’s a nice rah-rah quote, but it’s essentially crap. Playing well, including playing well while hurt, is not leadership. Nor is collecting some arbitrary number of hits. Numerous players do this and are never hailed as leaders.
Juan Pierre gets 200 hits a year and is known for playing hard. I don’t want him even playing for the Yankees, let alone leading them.
As it said at the top of the articule, I like the idea of giving up A-Rod talk for Lent. Or reading about A-Rod too. Or, participating in A-Rod/Jeter-related blog posts. I declare a moratorium on A-Rod/Jeter related articles (at least for myself. Maybe I can even re-think giving up my beloved Chocolate!
There are different types of leaders; those who lead by voice, and those who lead by example. What Zimmer speaks of is Jeter’s way of leading by example, but Jeter does both.
If you have any question as to the teammate Jeter is, and how he handles business in the clubhouse (and keeps it in-house), check out olney’s blog today.
Are we going to completely disreguard how much better Abreu is then Ichiro offensively?
Leadership–in a baseball context–is completely overrated. I know the St. Jeter contingent believes that the man has some extra-special leadership abilities, but I just don’t see it. This isn’t football or basketball where the leadership abilities of a quarterback or point guard can have a noticeable effect on a team’s success. How exactly does Jeter lead? I will grant you that Jeter is a very good player–a sure fire Hall-of-Famer, an intelligent player who respects the history of the game–but I don’t see how Jeter’s “example” or “leadership” makes the team any better.
Baseball is a game of individual action rather than one of coordinated action (say the way a basketball or football team runs a play). Does Robby Cano turn a better DP because of Jeter’s example? Does Abreu work the count better because of Jeter’s leadership? If anything, the Yankees have come up short in the time of Jeter’s leadership (using, of course, the Jeterian “If we don’t win the World Series the season’s a failure” standard). Does that make him a failed leader?
We won’t get Ichiro because we don’t need a lead off hitter, and it wouldn’t make sense to have two. Where would he fit in the lineup? Damon and Jeter won’t get changed at the front of the order, and Ichiro’s not gonna bat in the 3 or 4 spot, so would you bat him 5th? I just don’t see him fitting.
Clearly, this blog hates dashes.
Baseball leadership is one that happens in the club house. On the field, there’s not much one can do. How can you say that Varitek is a better captain than Mike Sweeney on the Royals? You can’t make that judgement, because it has more to do with how a player leads off the field than on the field. That being said, I think a good leader is one who plays hard, plays through the aches and pains, and who gets the rallies started when necessary, which are all on the field actions. But overall, its how they motivate their teammates and help their teammates that really identifies their leadership. That’s just my take on it.
If you really believe that, CM, then I cant believe that youve ever been a part of an actual organized baseball team.
Robby Cano can turn a DP better, because in theory he buys into the work ethic that Jeter sets, and takes extra reps at 2B every practice. Abreu could work the count better because Jeter was up prior to him, worked the count himself, and came back to educate those hitters coming up the next inning on what the pitcher is throwing.
i guess you may be able to argue that baseball is a game of a series of singular actions, but then one could say that no play is ever completed by a single person.
Doreen, keep the chocolate. As far as your other suggestion goes, I can’t remember who or what you were talking about. ;^)
I also vote for Randy the rent-a-cop to give up his Segway for Lent.
Turn Two: I just looking for a dialogue, not insults.
And second, do you have any evidence that Robby Cano takes extra fielding practice because of Jeter’s example? I haven’t seen any. And it seems that Abreu was pretty adept at working the count before he showed up in New York.
My only point is: People assume Derek Jeter that has leadership abilities because. . . people say that Derek Jeter has great leadership abilities. Where’s the proof?
Peter:
So how come the blog headline today isn’t “Jeter says ‘I don’t have a rift with [A-Rod].’” That is a direct quote, whereas when A-Rod simply says that they don’t hang out much anymore, it gets distorted out of context into “A-Rod admits to rift with Jeter.” I’m not trying to bust your chops, I enjoy reading your blog a lot and you’re a good writer. I just don’t see the need for twisted sensationalized headlines on a Yankee fan blog. I’d expect that from ESPN, newspaper publishers trying to sell a story, etc., just not here.
CM, if you noticed, i said ‘in theory’… but thats how i would explain how leadership plays a role in an individual-driven sport of baseball.
The proof is in his performance, and the way that he is respected throughout the league and by his teammates. Jeter is not an open individual… he’s not going to come out and speak about clubhouse matters in the press. he keeps team issues close to his chest, and within clubhouse doors. like i had mentioned before, if you have a free moment, read olney’s blog on espn… gives some insight on how DJ handles his business as captain of this team.
I also don’t buy into the “leadership by example” principle. A-Rod was the 2005 MVP, and was the best-hitting AL third baseman in 2006, but no one thinks of him as a leader. Sheffield played through constant pain to put up solid numbers as a Yankee, but he wasn’t a leader (and now he’s an ass). Giambi, the best hitter on the team, not a leader. Posada has the most physically demanding position player job on the team, and is one of the best catchers in the game, and has four rings and “veteranitude,” and calls games, but he’s not a leader. Rivera, best closer ever, but not a leader.
As Cleveland Mike said, we read that Jeter has good leadership qualities, but we don’t see evidence of them. The fact that he plays well is irrelevant to his ability to lead. Otherwise, all the players I listed would be known for their leadership qualities as well.
Jeter may be a great team leader, but his leadership skills don’t show up on the field, at least not in any way we can perceive.
If I’m wrong about all this, then at least I’m sure that the specific traits Zimmer listed (200 hits, plays hard, plays while hurt) have nothing to do with leadership, because 99.9% of professional baseball players “play like hell,” probably about 95% of players play while hurt, and many do things that are more beneficial to their team than collecting 200 hits.
sorry if this posted more than once… i am having some sort of problem with the website…
but leadership by example is not just putting up stats and expecting people to want to play hard because you as an individual are doing well.
i kind of see it in the contaxt similar to ‘treat others how you would like to be treated’… maybe a principle of ‘never ask of others to do what you yourself wont do’… maybe someone else can help me articulate that a little better… anyone? bueller?
leadership by example is showing others that you are doing everything you can to push yourself for greatness and to help the team achieve greatness (whether that be taking extra BP, fielding extra ground balls, helping work with younger players to share knowledge, having a certain tone when speaking to the press or what you say to the press, etc, whatever it may take), and by working as hard as you can, that you set the example for how you expect others on the team should play, too.
i disagree in saying 99.9% of mlb players ‘play like hell.’ how many times do you see a player jog down the line to first after hitting a ground ball to 2nd or a lazy pop fly to CF? personally, i see it too often…
TurnTwo,
I think what you’re saying is straightforward and correct: having a good work ethic is necessary to being a team leader. I’m just saying that most players have a good work ethic. If not 99.9%, then the great majority of players push themselves to play as well as possible. Jeter shouldn’t get some sort of special “leadership” badge because he plays hard, because if he deserves it, then so does everyone from David Eckstein to Omar Vizquel.
I keep thinking of Juan Pierre in this regard. Some writers and front office people are fascinated by him because of his work ethic. I once read that in addition to BP, he takes extra time to practice bunts, observing how the ball rolls on the grass so he can keep it fair. He has a rep for being a great presence in the clubhouse. Plus, he gets a ton of hits (204 last year). Do you want him leading your favorite team?
Jeter was the best-hitting shortstop in baseball in 2006, and would have been a much better MVP choice than Morneau. I just don’t think that has anything to do with his leadership ability.
Jeremy,
What Jeter possesses that those of similar ilk do not is unspoken but understood on the play field. you cant label it, but you know its there. it’s charisma, confidence… i think its what most leaders have, but you cant really put into words.
and yes, i would love 10 juan pierres on my team. i admire athletes who play hard all the time, who leave everything out on the field, and who do whatever they can to help the team win.
it’s also running down a foul ball with reckless abandon becuase you know how important that one single out is, not stopping short and watching someone else do it. He sets the tone, he sets the example, that’s leadership. Captains, leaders, don’t always have to be your absolute best player (A-Rod’s MVP year…), they just have to lead and inspire others with their play, their attitude, etc..
also, Jeremy, Posada and Mariano are also considered leaders of that team, but you can only have one captain (in baseball at least, but think of other sports like football where there’s a couple). Posada does a lot during the game to lead, calling the games, keeping pitchers on course, etc.. he’s a second pitching coach and definitely a leader.
Mariano is the Godfather with all the answers, the big brother if you will. You may only have one captain but you can certainly have more than one leader.
TurnTwo, good call on Olney’s blog, right on point. If being a 3rd year player and putting an ego maniac like Wells in his place isn’t leadership, I don’t know what is…
Turn Two: Again, I fail to see how the “charisma” and “confidence” that Jeter (supposedly) exudes makes his team any better or how it leads his teams to more victories. The reason that I press this point is that it seems that Derek Jeter’s “leadership” and its amazing effect on his teammates’ play seems to be more a creation of media hype and devoted fans than something based in reality. The argument seems to run like this: Derek Jeter is viewed as a “leader”; thus, anytime he runs out a ground ball or dives in the stand or cheers for his teammates, it is just more evidence that Jeter is a great leader. It seems to have a certain circularity to it. Bottom line, for me anyway, is that Jeter is great player, but there just isn’t any proof that he makes his teammates play any better. And that’s the test of leadership isn’t?
TurnTwo, you really don’t want 10 Juan Pierres on your team. You don’t even want one Juan Pierre on your team. Based on 2006 stats, a lineup of 9 Juan Pierres would average 4.42 runs per game. That’s terrible. By contrast, a lineup of 9 Johnny Damons would average 6.19 runs per game. Even 9 Bernie Williams(es?) would do better.
I brought up Pierre because he’s the perfect example of a guy who plays really hard and has all the intangibles, but kills your team by playing bad baseball (all singles, no walks, gets caught stealing a lot). Which is to say that swagger and confidence are nice, but they get you nowhere unless you get on base and score runs too. (Well that’s not entirely accurate. In Pierre’s case, they can get you a huge contract from an idiot GM.)
And I continue to believe that your description of the “athlete who plays hard” applies to virtually everyone on the Yankees, and most professional baseball players in general. Jeter’s play and work ethic, and we’re only talking about things, are terrific, but my point earlier was that you can say the exact same thing about Matsui, Posada, Rivera, and plenty of other guys, even Sheffield (who played hurt for extended periods of time). If Jeter does something else to make his teammates play better, we don’t get to see it.
Skrappy: I have no idea what you’re talking about. What headline?
Peter:
The heading on one of your blog posts the other day was “A-Rod admits to rift with Jeter.â€? But in fact that wasn’t really the way that it was characterized by A-Rod at all, he just said that they aren’t that close and don’t hang out much anymore…I suspect there are many guys on the Yankees that don’t hang out with Derek all that often, and I’m pretty sure that the same could be said about just about any player on any team. But then when asked about the so called “rift” Jeter expressly retorts with “I don’t have a rift with [A-Rod],” and it gets buried under the heading “Today in the Journal News.” The whole thing just seems like much ado about nothing to me.
By the way, count me in the group that really enjoys the unedited audio. Thanks for posting it.
holy jesus, i dont literally mean 10 juan pierres… 10 juan pierre or derek jeter-type players; players who share his work ethic, his personal values, and his love and respect for the game.
and CM: confidence improves his performance, and along with his charisma, helps motivate his fellow players, while also physically and literally helping his team.
when the yankees are down a run, who do you want up in that box who you know is cool under pressure, who exudes confidence to know what has to be done, and who is seemingly in the middle of most rallies the team puts together? Derek Jeter.
and Jeremy, you’re right, we dont literally get to see it, and thats the way it should be. Jeter is a guy who lives by ‘what happens in the clubhouse, stays in the clubhouse.’
TT: OK, I think we’ve moved well past the initial argument here. What does Jeter’s propensity for being in the middle of rallies have to do with leadership? It’s the hallmark of a good baseball player.
And back to his confidence and charisma. I think you overstate their affect, much to the detriment of other Yankees players. What makes you think that seasoned professionals like Matsui, Abreu, A-Rod, Posada, Giambi, Damon, and others need to be motivated and inspired by Derek Jeter? These guys were excellent and inspired ballplayers before they came to New York and they’ve been excellent (despite many fans’ blinders about A-Rod and Giambi) since they came here. I fail to see this “Jeter effect.”
Utlimately, we are just having a disagreement about things unseen. You believe that Derek Jeter has a certain intangible quality that makes his teams better (and whether you call it leadership, “knowing how to win,” etc., it’s all the same). And you’re not alone here: many other fans and commentators also believe this. I just happen to think it’s a lot of hype–and I haven’t seen any evidence of a Jeter effect.
CM- a good baseball player, who’s confidence and charisma leads him to do great things during important moments of the game… which leads back to motivating and setting an example for other players on his team. you wanted something tangible, and thats tangbile, in-game actions that stem from jeter’s leadership abilities that help win ballgames.
and i’m getting the sense from you that because the yankees havent won a WS while Jeter’s been captain, he’s been a failure in leading this team to be successful?
read Buster Olney’s blog from yesterday… then you’ll get a glimpse into understanding why respected major league players, coaches, scouts, and bullpen mascots all feel the same way about Jeter’s leadership abilities, why he’s the respected captain on the ballclub, and how that respect translates into perpetuating the winning attitude in the clubhouse as we, the fans, know it.