Good sign for Ron Villone
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- February
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Joe Torre was talking about the bullpen today and more or less said non-roster LHP Ron Villone would be on the team. The only spot they need to fill is for a long man and that could well be somebody like Jeff Karstens.
Right now, the seven relievers look to be Mariano Rivera, Scott Proctor, Krazy Kyle Farnsworth, Luis Vizcaino, Mike Myers, Ron Villone and TBA.
Notes: Humberto Sanchez will be shut down for 10 days or so to let his elbow calm down. … After a brief workout today, Torre gathered the team at home plate for a base-running drill. He had Doug Mientkiewicz and Brett Gardner race to second, with Gardner going around third and Minky around first. As they started, the entire team walked off the field laughing. It was just a prank.
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on Wednesday, February 28th, 2007 at 1:40 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
No Bruney or Britton? What the… do we really need Myers on this team? He is a waste of space, we don’t need a LOOGY its a waste of money and space for someone who could provide more innings.
I don’t want Karstens on the roster.
“Right now, the seven relievers look to be Mariano Rivera, Scott Proctor, Krazy Kyle Farnsworth, Luis Vizcaino, Mike Myers, Ron Villone and TBA.”
Britton?
Bruney?
Rasner?
Karstens?
Henn? (He’s out of options)
I know that Mike Myers is a left-handed specialist, as well as a hell of a guy; but having both him and Villone on the 25-man seems a tad redundant, epecially when it would mean that either Bruney or Britton would be left out of the equation.
Incidentally, if they don’t plan on using Chris Britton and his so-called “power arm” for the ‘pen, then what was the purpose of the Jaret Wright trade?
Beaten to the punch!
I can only assume that Britton and Bruney will get called up during a doubleheader or when someone inevitably hits the DL. Or, when Villone falls apart in the second half like the data seems to indicate.
As for not needing a LOOGY, I suppose Sean is right that someone like Myers is not absolutely necessary, but it’s a damn nice luxury to have. Given the way Torre relies on only a couple guys out of the ‘pen (remember last year when everyone thought Villone wasn’t used enough in the first half), it’s not like the replacement would get a lot of innings.
Do both Britton and Bruney both have options left??
BBBB?
Big Bad Brian Bruney?
That being said… how about we not annoint the bullpen before the spring games start… but that’s just me.
Funny about the baserunning drill, though I would assume Gardner was already turning second when Minky was touching first…
I don’t make the decisions, I just report them. Getting Vizcaino sort of bumped Britton and/or Bruney.
They seem to think they need two lefties. Hard to argue against that.
For the 2007 Yankees, trading Shef, Unit, and Wright meant Luis Vizcaino added to the bullpen? That’s a pretty impressive bit of work for doing absolutely nothing.
How many relief pitchers does that mean they’ll have in the minors now? Really, what’s the point? Torre’s going to burn through all of them?
Sure they could trade for help, but after suffering through two months of Minky? Is that really necessary?
A challenge -
Can we name all the right-handed releivers that are decent enough to pitch in pinstripes this year but won’t start the year there?
1. Bruney
2. Britton
3. Beam
4. Bean
5. Veras
6. Whelan
7. Cox
8. Jackson
Did I miss anyone? Is there any doubt that any and all of those guys could do just fine if need be?
Oh man……I was looking forward to having Brunney and Britton on the team.
So, what is your opinion of taking Villone and Karsten?
Peter you don’t think having a LOOGY is a waste of a roster spot for this team? Can’t they just buy him out and let Bruney or Britton on the roster. Villone will be more off a mop up man when the game is out of hand anyways if people perform like they are supposed to.
I hope Yankees trade that garbage and scrub Mike Myers. Put Henn on the Roster, He’s out of options.
2006 ERAs:
Britton….3.35
Farnsworth 4.36
These are both right handers who will only pitch a single inning. Furthermore, Britton is a young player who will likely improve. Yet, it seems Farnsworth will be on the team, rather than Britton. Hopefully Britton will get his chance at some point.
This is why I was annoyed when Villone was resigned. I knew that a spot in the bullpen would basically be his to lose after Torre put that all important ‘trust’ in him at the end of last year. Britton and Bruney should start the year with the Yankees but I guess conventional wisdom says you HAVE to have a lefty in the pen, even though Vizcaino slays lefties.
Hopefully our starters will pitch more innings this year than last year, and we won’t be so needing of more arms in the bullpen and a LOOGY will make better sense.
I think its premature to talk about guys like Villone, Bruney and Britton until we see them pitch.
Vizcaino’s numbers over the years vs. Lefties are better than some lefties vs. lefties. He could certainly fill a Villone-type role if either Bruney or Britton impress enough.
I, too would like to see Britton and/or Bruney make the roster IF they pitch well.
If they don’t, having them start the year at AAA won’t hurt because we all know, at some point, we will see changes on the staff. Whether its because of overuse, ineffectiveness, or injuries, what they start with in April rarely is what they end with in September.
What’s good is that for the first time in a long, long time, there is adequate pitching depth in the organization. Its nice to have options from within for a change instead of always seeking help via trades.
JMO but, the key to the bullpen’s success this year will be the rotation. If the starters can go deeper into games, for longer stretches during the season, the bullpen won’t be overused.
Between Randy Johnson’s clunkers, and Jared Wright’s five inning starts, the ‘pen would often get overused last year and that hurt them in quite a few games.
If guys like Andy, Moose, Wang and Igawa eat innings (Pavano is still an unknown at this point), its going to make it a lot easier for the bullpen to stay fresh.
Pete said: “They seem to think they need two lefties. Hard to argue against that.”
I say: hard to argue FOR that. Villone was absolutely dreadful after June of last year. He was the lefty version of Tanyon Sturtze who, by all accounts, is a great guy and a team player. But the talent, at this point, doesn’t justify a roster spot. If the goal is to get MLB hitters out, regardless of arm, then you take either Bruney or Britton because either one of them can simply gas the ball past almost anyone.
In the offseason, it seemed as though the Yanks were finally internalizing the lessons that the Twins and Tigers had demonstrated in recent seasons – get enough kids with huge arms in the bullpen and the game gets pretty short, pretty quick. Once the season begins again, however, it’s obvious that it’s the same old Yanks. As someone wrote above, if trading Sheffield, Johnson, and Wright only gets you Vizcaino on your major league roster, you’re doing something wrong.
To say that Vizcaino slays lefties is somewhat misleading. Certainly last year, he performed much better against lefties, posting a .569 OPS against vs lefties, and a .812 vs righties. However, in the past three years the totals are much close, an OPS against of .667 for lefties and .780 against righties. In 2003 his splits were roughly even, and in 2002 he performed about 70 points better against righties.
Anyway, it’s only redundant to have all of these arms in the minors if everyone in the big league ‘pen stays healthy and pitches well. That seems like a huge if to me on both counts. No one else is worried about Vizcaino transitioning to the AL East? Hasn’t recent history shown every team that you can’t have too much pitching?
I have no problem seeing Bruney and Britton at AAA, with Karstens as the long man. Bruney and Britton add youth and insurance should the veterans falter early or are injured, and having another workhorse like Vizcaino should limit innings on Villone and Proctor.
the chris britton for jaret wright deal was made because it helped the bullpen get younger, less expensive, and more flexibile, primarily looking towards the future.
Wow people need to relax! First off, having a LOOGY is valuable, as there are many great hitters in the AL who could burn you at the end of games, such as Ortiz and Hafner to name two. Also there is nothing wrong wtih starting Britton and Bruney in AAA to start the year. First Britton is good but could still use some work on his secondary pitches, so starting the season with a guy like Vizcaino isn’t bad, and if he flops then you go to Britton. As for Bruney, right now we don’t even know if he’s healthy enough to pitch, plus his success at the end of last year was a very small sample size. And I believe he has options.
Bullpens change an awful lot during a season, so I see the yankees starting with the veterans, and if they are ineffective or get hurt, then you call up the Bruney’s, Brittons and Beam’s. And as for Sean Henn, suggesting he’s a better option then Villone is laughable.
And finally, its comical the people who say we basically traded Wright, Johnson and Sheffield for Vizcaino. Those trades were in house cleaning and salary dumps which brought in young talent that will help in the future, we got a lot more for those guys than just Vizcaino.
[...] The official site has Humberto Sanchez out two to four days with an inflammed elbow. Pete Abraham reports that he’s out “10 days or so.” [...]
Loogy’s are wasteful, and Britton and Bruney offer more than Myers and Villone. I don’t know why Cash wastes his energy collecting young power relievers for the pen, when Joe is gonna take limited vets over them every time.
Farnsworth?! A water tower painted like a baseball has more movement than his fastball (I know, old joke). What do Gator/Torre see Peter?
Villone is an old man and a liar (so is his agent). He has not even pitched in a game this spring and Torre supposedly is saying he’ll make the team. He is extremely average! Heres a thought, let’s wait and see what some of the younger talent brings to the table before commenting!!! I know Torre and Cashman feel “guilty” that they overused Villone last year, but he wasn’t saying no when they offered him the ball either!
Peter, any indication Krazy Kyle one-inning-and-take-a-day-off Farnsworth can be a little more reliable than last year?
There’s still a month + before the season starts – that’s plenty of time for a lot of things to happen that could shape the pitching staff.
Villone if villone is just average as you say I’ll still take him over Henn who is well below average. And for a guy in the AL East to carry an era under 3 until August, well that takes a lot of talent in my mind.
As for whether or not a LOOGY is wasteful, well that is a very interesting argument, but I ask you this. Who would you rather have pitching to Ortiz or Hafner or Teixiera(more power left handed) in the 8th inning with the game on the line, Mike Myers or Chris Britton? The yankees are one team for example who a LOOGY could be very useful against.
Also Farnsworth is still a very valuable part to the bullpen. He is vastly overpaid for a guy who can only pitch on inning a day, but if you use him in the right role (which I think would be a 7th inning reliever) then he can be lights out. Straight fastball or not, if you consistently hit your spots at 98 mph, and can mix in a slider like he has, your going to get positive results. And if you look at the month to month breakdown on Farnsworth last year, he was far more reliable than you realize.
Have all of you seen how close that right field porch is? Having a LOOGY is not a bad idea.
Either way, you’re guaranteed to see Bruney and Britton this season. Remember last year when we had Kris Wilson, Scott Ericson and gang pitching for extended periods? Releivers go down (Sturtze anyone?), and they have two guys with major league experience waiting to come up to replace them.
You’ll also see some of those starters next season. I’d be more than shocked if Mussina, Pettitte, and Pavano made it through the entire season without landing on the DL at some point.
We all know Bruney and Britton will be up eventually. Anyway, I wonder if Andy and Roger are still golfing…
Jim, your list has plenty of doubt. Colter Bean’s 74mph side arm doesn’t fool big leaguers like it does minor leaguers. TJ Beam throws hard but gets hit hard, thus his 8.5 ERA. Some more time in the minors wouldn’t hurt him. Whelan hasn’t pitched above single A ball, Jackson hasn’t pitched above double A, and Cox broke his hand. These are all guys I would not want on my opening day roster, though that’s not to say that they aren’t good prospects. They just need more time.
some of these message board GMs really crack me up…
I don’t care how hard you throw, or which arm you use. If you can’t throw strikes out of the pen you’re no good to us.
I don’t understand Joe laying out his pen 2 weeks into Spring training, but then again, there were a lot of things Joe did last year I didn’t understand.
Whether or not to carry a LOOGY is an interesting question. I happen to like Myers, and my memories of Graham Lloyd is the reason why. It remains to be seen if he becomes that valuable.
But the key will always be control of the plate. If you can’t throw strike one out of the pen, we all know how bitter that recipe tastes.
Note to Joe: Find out who’s hitting the plate with movement. Then bring them North.
Villone’s early 2006 was a fluke. He will be mediocre or worse this year – like he’s been throughout his career.
Even if Villone does struggle early on, we can always call up either Bruney or Britton. However, I still think Villone will have a strong first half and tire out at the end since that’s what he’s done the past few seasons.
Does Villone making the team come as a surprise to anyone who’s been watching the Yankees during the Joe Torre era? Torre has a circle of trust–and one of the surefire ways to enter that circle is to be a veteran. Torre wants “proven” guys and will only play youth when he has no choice (injury). But, as a poster above said, bullpens change a great deal through the course of the season and if Villone pitches more like post-All Star break Villone than pre-All-Star break Villone, Cashman will cut bait.
I understand that many fans would choose cheaper, younger players over tired veterans, but it’s not happening as long as Torre is manager.
I’m split with Myers. Couldn’t really care if he was on or off the team.
Someone asked: “Incidentally, if they don’t plan on using Chris Britton and his so-called “power armâ€? for the ‘pen, then what was the purpose of the Jaret Wright trade?”
I don’t think Cashman stockpiled arms to use every single one. Can you say: trade bait?
We can second guess trades but it is hard to second guess roster moves. The coaches are there watching there every move. We haven’t seen any of them pitch yet. Hard to say who is better, but I trust the staff and think they will make better choices than the collective fans. Bruney pitched well for about 11 games last year after being terrible in Az. Hard so say he is going to be dominate. Britton was just a add-on to dumping Wright since they were going to decline his option or trade him, both resulting in paying the buyout. From what Pete has reported Villone has been doing well so doesn’t seem like a bad choice.
“A challenge –
Can we name all the right-handed releivers that are decent enough to pitch in pinstripes this year but won’t start the year there?
1. Bruney
2. Britton
3. Beam
4. Bean
5. Veras
6. Whelan
7. Cox
8. Jackson
Did I miss anyone? Is there any doubt that any and all of those guys could do just fine if need be?”
Beam got lit up like a Christmas tree last year. He throws a straight FB and not much else that I’ve seen.
Bean has the minor league track record and probably deserves a better shot than he’s gotten, but there is a legit reason to wonder whether his stuff/style translates to the majors. He also hasn’t pitched well in the (very) few ML innings he’s gotten.
Bruney pitched well last year, but his control remains a concern. I wouldn’t call him a lock to repeat his ‘06 performance over a whole season.
Britton sounds pretty good.
Veras pitched decently last year.
The other three are prospects, IIRC. Didn’t Cox break his hand? I don’t know if the others are ready. Henn has been mentioned, but he’s been awful in the majors, IIRC.
All that said, I agree that both Myers and Villone is overkill, and it’s a bad thing if having them both blocks somebody who could do better. It’s good the Yanks have lots of options, because relievers are even harder to predict than starters.
You guys are overlooking the most important point of the blog entry….the prank Torre played on Minky and Gardner.
WTF, leave Villone in AAA or something. I hated his signing to begin with, because it cost us a pick in the draft (we didn’t lose one, but had he signed elsewhere, we would have gotten an extra one), and now he is going to make the team? Crap, thats BS. I would much rather have Britton or Bruney than Villone. And Vizcaino’s numbers against left handers are better than Villone’s. If Villone makes the team over Bruney or Britton, then its BS, because Villone basically sucked in every big spot he was in after the all star break, I mean EVERY FREAKING SPOT.
Villone should not be on the roster. We need a long reliever in karstens so Torre doesnt butcher the bullpen.
Having a 7 man bullpen and no lefty specialist would be absurd. There’ll be way more opportunities for Myers than there will be for five different righties to pitch in the same game.
If Bruney is healthy and pitches decently this spring he should be on the team. The guy throws smoke, was lights out last year (granted in a small sample), and deserves a chance to fail.
I’d also keep Villone who’s been great in the first half the last two years, only to fade late when the innings pile up. He’s the only vet with long man experience and he can spot start in a pinch.
If Karstens doesn’t make the rotation (Pavano hurt or traded) having him rot at the back of a 7 man bullpen would be foolish. I’d have him starting at Scranton as the first call-up.
Vizciano has never impressed me and I think he’ll get hit hard.
Having Karstens on the roster doesn’t mean that Torre won’t burn the bullpen.
Why wouldn’t Brunney make the roster? He, Proctor, and Rivera were the only guys in our bullpen who could even through strikes the last few months of the season. I’m not expecting him to be as good as he was during his short stint with us last year, but they could at least give him a shot to see what he has.
Actually the one thing Bruney didnt do was throw strikes…
b>m: You don’t put Henn on the roster just because he is out of options. He does have to EARN a spot.
Personally, I’d like to jettison Henn. I’d like to jettison Villone too and go with Britton or Bruney and have only Myers as the lefty. Unfortunately…
The one guy I wish the Yanks could have kept in the Abreu deal was Matt Smith. As you can see, good lefty relievers can be difficult to find. Personally, I hate one-batter specialists and I think they are a drag on the rest of the bullpen, but Myers does happen to be a “necessary evil”. Out of the three lefties (Myers, Villone and Henn), Myers is the only one I have a semblance of confidence in.
Confidence against whom? Myers? Rolfmao.. He horrible and awful against in big spots against his former team Redsox?
Hey, Mike S, Can you Watch Myers against his former team the Redsox? He lost his concentration and his edge at mound.
All I can say is that the Yanks are going to have a ridiculous amount of good pitching at Scranton if Bruney and Britton get sent down. The rotation will most likely have Hughes, Sanchez, Rasner, Clippard, Ohlendorf; that is probably better than some MLB teams (i.e. the nationals) and the ‘pen could have bruney, britton, cox, and potentially whelan as well. I am defineatley going to scranton in april to see these guys play.
b>m:
and Henn is better? A guy who is 0-4, 8.27 in his short career? His minor league stats aren’t that impressive either. I’ve seen him at Trenton, and wasn’t impressed.
Come on. Pardon the pun, but Henn lays nothing but eggs. He is horrible. Villone? Come on.
But then, you never addressed the statement I made that Henn has to EARN a spot, not just have it handed to him because he is out of options.
BTW, do some research. If you would have done some research, here is what you would find. You have three lefties. Henn, who hasn’t done anything, Myers who was 1-0, 6.23 vs. Boston last year, and Villone, who was 0-2, 9.58.
So even though Myers numbers weren’t great vs. Boston, he still is the best option of the three.
Get real.
Given that Myers pitches to one batter at a time, I can’t imagine that his win-loss record or ERA are terrible indicative of his success against the Red Sox, which even more drastically limits the sample size. I believe Big Papi was 2 for 11 against him, that should tell you enough.
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