Joe Torre postgame audio
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- March
- 14
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Here is a short burst of the skip talking about Jeff Karstens and a few other things. We didn’t need much, so there weren’t many questions.
That’s it for tonight on the blog. Braves-Yankees tomorrow night back at Legends.
Whether you agreed with me or not on the Underdog stuff, thanks for all your posts the last two days. I think for the most part, it was a reasonable discussion.
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on Wednesday, March 14th, 2007 at 9:08 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Just wanted to point out that Karstightocteroneittonsworth pitched a 3-hitter tonight. Not bad for the seasoned rookie who, I believe, is the only right-handed southpaw on the roster.
Karstens is really impressing me, I think it’s time to get what we can for Pavano and put Karstens in his place, a lot of the teammates are not fully behind Pavano anyways and we don’t need any controversy in the clubhouse.
amen to that, matt. we just need to fatten up the steer before we ship him to st. louis.
yeah I know and hey if we get a few decent prospects for Pavano, I think that’s a pretty good trade.
if they pick up most of his salary, i’d personally drive him to st. louis.
All I know is that calling you-know-who “Underdog” is absolutely hysterical.
As for Karstens, I just don’t see how someone pitching as well as him can be left behind in AAA when the Yanks are carrying stiffs like Villone (not to mention Mientkiewicz and Phillips, neither of whom can hit big league pitching).
MJ, maybe tonight’s performance makes cashman and torre and guidry start to rethink their pitching plans. the problem is, cash signed pavano and doesn’t want to look like an idiot for giving him away. so i guess it will take some time.
pavano’s really the last skeleton in cash’s closet.
kerouac: I don’t agree with that assessment entirely. Cash may have signed him, but he’s not a guy that needs to be right all the time. If he thinks Pavano is a bust, he’ll cut him loose. Cash wants to win. He knows how to win and he does the necessary to achieve said goal.
Although I think Pavs fits the NL way better than the AL given the NL’s relative lack of power and shorter lineups, I don’t think that St. Louis – - or anybody else for that matter – - is giving up any solid prospects for a pitcher who threw only a few innings over the last two years. It’s not that we don’t want to trade the big doofus, it’s that Pavs’ health is a huge risk and big risk = discount on players given in exchange. He’s looked merely OK in ST and hasn’t gone more than 3 innings. Who knows… Maybe at 5 innings his arm comes off. Gents, I think we’re stuck with Carlo for now.
rich, i hope you’re right. i suspect mdog is speaking the truth. we’re stuck with pavs until he pitches well … and if he does … then we probably need him. if he doesn’t, well then at some point cash has to pull the plug. or does torre make that call? i guess they do it together.
Five teams offered Pavano more than the Yankees did, including the Sox.
Cash is in good company.
Rich: i live up here in theo epstein country. he’s no longer the boy genius. some of his mistakes include: renteria, letting orlando cabrera walk, trading away hanley ramirez and anibel sanchez to get beckett and lowell. there’s more but you get the idea.
no GM who spends on the free agent market is going to make all the right moves. it’s like the stock market, up one day, down the next.
I agree, kerouac,
That’s why I think that Cash has the intellectual security to move on from Pavano if and when the facts dictate that it is the right course of action.
As of now, I truly believe that he thinks that Pavano is salvageable.
This is OT but have you guys checked out the Devil Rays’ ST record? 1-13. How the hell do you go 1-13?!?!?
Has anyone seen NoMass with Peter as a parade balloon?
I don’t think Pavano’s going anywhere. Karstens is going to make the team and he’ll be the long guy who has to keep coming in when Igawa gets bombed for the first couple months to keep us in the game, until eventually Joe just gives the spot to him and Igawa becomes a reliever. Pavano’s here until we get Clemens (or someone else of that caliber).
Am I dreaming or do the yanks have alot more minor league talent then they have had in yrs.???
The have a ton of pitchers with talent; we haven’t even seen sanchez or cox…
tabata has huge upside, even sardinha is better then there usual 28 yr old career AAAA guy.
They have alot of talent everywhere except at catcher where they still have the old retreads. ANyone agree?
Stuart, they do. Cashman has made the system a priority and not only are they getting a lot of the best prospects, but they are also getting the best scouts, and hiring the best coaches. They’ve done a great job of restoring it. They have catching talent, but it’s in the low minors.
Why is a lifelong Sox and Pats fan, and one-time Mets beat writer, covering and blogging about the Yanks for a NY newspaper? Do you really think you have any credibility? Do you really think anyone (anyone with a clue, that is) believes you can be objective about our ([i]our[/i], not [i]your[/i]) team? Your incessant Torre Love and Alex Hate only enhances your status as a monumental dunderhead.
Because someone with the username “FireTorre” should be taken seriously? I love how you are all picking on Pete when the Post and News both reported the same thing.
pete, the blog is absolutely killer. entertaining, informative, constantly updated.
you’re working your ass off and there are many of us out here who aren’t too daft to reckognize that.
as for karstens: i will type this in all caps and make each word its own sentence so it’s easy to understand: HE. WILL. NOT. BE. IN. THE. ROTATION.
clear enough? i know we’d all love it if he was, and he’s certainly earned it so far, but (here come the caps again, try and follow me) CASHMAN AND TORRE HAVE BOTH SAID, MORE THAN ONCE, THAT IGAWA AND PAVANO ARE IN. karstens may be the long man, but THAT IS IT.
phelps isn’t making the club, karstens isn’t cracking the rotation. get comfortable with it.
here, from mark feinsand’s blog. feinsand’s a beat writer for the daily news, and last year worked for mlb.com. perhaps everyone will take his word for it, as he’s certainly not the “doom and gloom red sox fan” that i am.
“Jeff Karstens continues to impress, throwing four more scoreless innings tonight to bring his total to nine this spring. He hasn’t walked a batter and has struck out nine, showing himself to be a legit candidate for a roster spot.
There have been several calls for him to take a rotation spot away from Carl Pavano or Kei Igawa, and while I may agree with this notion, we all have to understand that it isn’t going to happen unless the circumstances call for it.
Only a major injury or a major blowup by one of them this spring could make that happen, no matter how well Karstens pitches. He’s making the minimum while the other two are on the books for another $68 million between them. You better bet the Yanks are going to give them a chance to pitch if they’re healthy.
I’ve also seen a lot of criticism of Doug Mientkiewicz because of his slow start this spring at the plate. People need to realize that spring stats mean almost nothing when it comes to veteran players. A-Rod hit .211 last spring. Tino Martinez hit .190 the spring before that. If Mientkiewicz is hitting .053 after two weeks of real games, come talk to me.”
LC:
The 1961 Yankees were 9-20 (or thereabouts) in Spring Training. Check out how that team made out.
Most spring training games are decided in the late innings by guys who will be in the minors once the reg. season starts.
Firetorre:
You wrote: Why is a lifelong Sox and Pats fan, and one-time Mets beat writer, covering and blogging about the Yanks for a NY newspaper?
That’s exactly what makes Peter objective. He didn’t grow up wearing pinstriped jammies and a little Yankee hat on his head. He’s a sportswriter, not a hometown booster.
By the way, what’s a “dunderhead”?
One of the beat writers mentioned that Karstens stopped throwing his cut fastball at Mo’s suggestion.
Here’s something for some fun:
Found this in a Newsday article:
Sheff disses Torre (again).
Sheffield criticized Torre’s managing: “When I’m not playing and A-Rod is hitting eighth, something’s wrong. If something’s wrong, who writes the lineup? Torre writes the lineup.”
Sheff’s an ass and I’m glad he’s gone. I happen to agree that Torre shouldn’t have batted ARod 8th in that game, but frankly that wasn’t the reason the Yanks lost. Sheff just likes to hear himself talk.
It’s nice that ScaryFlyBallGuy is pitching well in spring training. I’d be happy to plug him in as the 5th starter and see how he does. That won’t happen, though, at least not at first. Moose-Wang-Pettite-Igawa-Pavano. If Igawa and/or Pavano suck, or somebody gets hurt (always a possibility), then I imagine Karstens is first in line as a fill in. It’s nice to have that sort of backup.
I agree. The reason the Yankees haven’t won a WS since 2000 has largely been as a result of their pitching (and the absence of luck). Yet some people still blame A-Rod. Go figure.
Kasey and/or Peter,
Don’t you think it bodes well that Karstens is staying in turn? I assume he is scheduled to start against Toronto on Monday. I understand Kasey’s point and I believe Pavano and Igawa have the inside track for the last two rotation spots, but there is a new direction with this team. If Karstens keeps getting outs and someone falters I can honestly see him getting a chance. Thoughts?
Some observations on todays comments:
Pete growing up not wearing pinstripe jammies. He needs to consider finding a lawyer to file a suit for a deprived childhood. I hope that now that he is making the big bucks that he has gone out and purchased said attire.
The DRAYS being 1-13. Their manager Joe Maddon said that spring training is a time for a learning process. Right now they are learning to lose.
What we can get from St. Louis for Pavano. Right now I think we would come out ahead if they sent us a keg of beer.
“Reasonable” discussion, Peter? On several occassions, you told those who disagreed with you to go somewhere else. Not exactly reasonable.
Here’s one writer who had a positive interpretation of Arod interview on WFAN. I’m stunned. She must not have gotten the Arod bashing memo.
For once, A-Rod rings true
Johnette Howard
http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....-headlines
“as for karstens: i will type this in all caps and make each word its own sentence so it’s easy to understand: HE. WILL. NOT. BE. IN. THE. ROTATION.”
kasey,
Way to sound like you’re telling us something we don’t already know. What everyone has been saying is exactly what the quote from Feinsand says- if someone gets traded (such as Pavano) or someone blows up (such as Igawa), Karstens will get a shot. And anyway, regardless of what will actually happen, we can still debate what should happen.
i find it interesting that some of the mouth breathers who post on this site accuse the people who don’t agree with Peter’s take on Alex of not being true Yankee fans.
“Mets Forever: When did you become a baseball fan? What was your favorite team growing up and who were your favorite players?
Peter Abraham: I’ve been a baseball fan all my life. My grandfather managed a team in the local industrial league, my dad played, I played in high school, etc. I grew up in Massachusetts and my favorite team was the Sox My favorite players as a kid were Yaz, Fred Lynn, Rooster Burleson and Butch Hobson. I can give you a pretty good breakdown on every Red Sox team since 1974 or so.”
It would seem MLB Trade Rumors.com also thinks everyone is getting a little overblown in “translating� Arod’s interviews.
Will this never end?
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....mania.html
Sunny:
I took this from Johnette’s article:
“The last comment was the false note in the interview. No matter how well this year goes, it would be a huge surprise if Rodriguez doesn’t exercise his option and hit the open market again. That’s just smart business. But he should shut up about it from now till November rather than pretend otherwise.”
I admit that I’m picking out two sentences from a longer column, but it’s interesting to me that Johnette couldn’t let it go without a quick backhand at Udoggie. Johnette could not avoid noticing what bugs most people about this guy (”false note” and “pretend”). She even tells him to “shut up.” Doesn’t sound like love to me.
I have to agree with MLBTradeRumors.com’s assessment:
“Johnette Howard of Newsday is more forgiving – she says A-Rod comes off much better if you simply LISTEN TO THE [ENTIRE] INTERVIEW.”
Hmm:
I have tried to hide the fact that I grew up in Massachusetts. I quite proud of that. I haven’t lived there in 20 years, however. And when I started doing this for a living, I rooted for quick games and good stories, not any one team.
Funny, most people think I’m a Yankees fan.
Mdog
It’s not about loving Underdog, it’s about just for once, listening to the interview and NOT taking quotes out of context which is what a lot of people are doing (Madden, Sherman). She doesn’t have to love Underdog, hell, I don’t, but respect him and his abilities, and I listened to the interview in it’s entirety (twice) and did not find any reason to bust on Underdog for being honest there and picking apart his interview to fit my perspective.
Everyone comes into things with a certain perspective. Whether they mean to be objective or not. Our backgrounds and experiences dictate that all things are going to take on a certain slant. If I blurbed Cano saying “Cano wants a long term deal” – whether or not you like Cano is going to play into how you interpret that. Interpret. Not take it as is – interpret. If you think Cano is a good guy, “good for him – he deserves it.” If Cano is a jerk “he’s greedy and the Yanks don’t owe him a thing – he should prove he’s worth it.” Ms. Howard at least took everything Arod said in the context it was meant and did not re-interpret Arod’s meanings as some articles have. So for that – she gets points with me.
According to that interview, it’s obvious your allegience lie with the Red Sox.
In addition, there is no way you can provide unbiased coverage on the Yankees while being a Red Sox fan. It’s impossible. Being a Red Sox fan is a disease.
Sunny:
I’m OK with your perspective. I just found it interesting that in the midst of trying to write a positive piece, Johnette still slapped him.
My last word on this guy: I don’t blame Udoggie for the Yanks not winning since 2000. With all due respect, no serious student of the game would do that. My view is that the failure rate was mostly a pitching issue coupled with a failure to maintain a robust farm system and over-exploiting the free agent market. As for Udoggie’s role, it’s minimal or it’s neutral. I’m giving him a “small sample” pass on his post season numbers and acknowledging his regular season goodness. How to quantify or assess what he does for the team, and whether we pay to keep him, are the only issues for me.
I don’t have Bill James’, Nate Silver’s or Keith Woolner’s facility with numbers, but even they can’t measure personality objectively or with precision. Everybody is a mixed bag. Some people bring a lot more good than bad to the table. It all depends on how bad the bad is for a given environment. At some point, even though the good stuff is really good, you still know that a little poison goes a long way. There shouldn’t be any doubt about keeping Udoggie, but there is. That’s got to mean something. I wish him well and I wish him a season long case of laryngitis.
I’m sure Pete is a fan of the Sox but I haven’t seen that slant in his reporting on the Yankees. Pete’s a big boy and can take care of himself, but in the year and a half I’ve been here reading his articles and his posts, I haven’t found cause to accuse Pete of bias or misreporting and is (and has been) doing his job as a professional by keeping his fandom out of his work.
Pete has always been able to maintain objectivity in his reporting from the numerous articles that I have read and I have no cause to start thinking that all sudden that has changed. Nothing I’ve seen here warrants that. His recent posts while not “GO UNDERDOG!” have definitely not been “UNDERDOG S*CKS!!” He’s not paid to root for the Yankees just report on them and I don’t expect him to. The blog is a means to solicit his opinion on certain things – which invites discussion (I don’t condone the personal attacks as those are the kind of things that gives fandom a bad rap) and I think that makes for an exciting blog.
There’s a big difference between being a fan of something and letting it affect your work. Pete has even lambasted Schilling on this blog (with colorful pictures of Schilling’s budda/pregnancy), cracking on Schilling’s Cash is my best friend name dropping and also including a hilarious cartoon of Schilling/Nancy Drew a few weeks ago. That doesn’t sound like Sox fandom to me.
I’ve seen over a year and a half of good unbiased reporting from Pete on the Yankees and one or two blog posts with opinions (not reporting) that I may not agree with isn’t going to make me think Pete’s a biased reporter all of a sudden. This opinion of Pete may not be popular right now, but I don’t see any reason to blame Pete for Underdog’s troubles.
Sunny: Thanks, some people just don’t get that this is my job or that I haven’t lived in Massachusetts for 21 years.
And I have no desire to go back. Covering the Yankees is the most fun I have ever had in journalism. Great team to cover.
Peter, i didn’t post that as any sort of reflection on you.
just thought it was ironic that some of the posters here were accusing the “underdog supporters” (i.e. those who disagreed with you) of not being true yankee fans.
it’s funny.
here is one such snippet of wisdom:
“I know you’re a Yankee fan Peter and you blog with integrity. You’re not in this for the popularity or the profit or the attention. You love the team and it shows. This article was written by a writer just as bright and astute as ever. The fans who can’t grasp your continued understanding of this team are in denial about Arod’s temporary status here. They won’t change their tone until he’s gone so don’t expect civility. But you nailed it Peter. Underdog is staging his own exit.”
hilarious. people who truly love the yankees have to hate a-rod.
wrong again.
murphydog,
All the U-dog “poison” is tossed around off the field, in tabloids and blogs. There not a glimmer of evidence that it hampers U-dog’s teammates. Even if U-dog and Jeter spend all their free time seething in anger at each other, Jeter was so good in 2006 that he should have won the MVP. The Yankees blew away the rest of baseball in runs scored despite losing Matsui and Sheffield for most of the season. The only player who has even intimated that personality/psychological issues negatively affect him is U-dog himself, and he was merely the best-hitting 3B in the league last year.
The “doubt” about keeping U-dog is, like the “poison,” probably unique to fans. I would be surprised if any of his teammates doubt he should stay, even ones who don’t like him. I would be astonished if Cashman doubts the team should keep him.
In short there is no rational reason to doubt whether to keep U-dog. His hitting is not just good, it’s the best for his position. The personality issues, while annoying for fans, are nearly irrelevant. No one has even suggested someone who could replace him (except for derisive references to Mike Lowell).
And yet in the end I agree with you, I hope he plays well and doesn’t talk.
And what a job. If only everyone had a job as exciting as yours. Froget everyone – I’d give my neighbors first born to do your job… but then no one here would get unbiased reporting, just a lot of sloppy drooling on who I got to chat with…
Like I said, fandom is a double edged sword sometimes. I’m a huge fan of Kansas, but my bracketology has them outted by VT. sob.
mdog, but you have to admit that in the very beginning of the article she clearly stated that she was a “card carrying member of the Just-Shut-Up-And-Play club.” So that kind of last minute backhand was expected. At least she made it clear that there was (in her opinion) no need to disect the interview (like Madden and Sherman’s shameless articles did).
Sunny:
I saw her full disclosure. It was honest.
I just couldn’t help but notice that even a writer who was trying to keep the torch-carrying angry mob off of Udoggie still had to slap him. This guy must give off negative pheromones or something.
Given his 2006, how can they not? As with all things, Underdog will have to continue to prove that he can keep his foot out of his mouth all year. HOPEFULLY, he’ll just keep it shut, but maybe he can take a page from the Book of Jeter and just repeat the Jeterism (UDog, repeat after me) – “As a team, our only goal is to win the World Series.”
Mike S.,
Oh yeah, I TOTALLY see the similarities between the ‘07 Rays and the ‘61 Yankees.