Igawa somewhat of an enigma
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- March
- 15
Here’s something you don’t see often: the Yankees winning a game with a suicide squeeze bunt. Kevin Reese got the ball down to score Chris Basak in the seventh.
Sean Henn got the win with Mo Rivera and Brian Bruney finishing up. The Yankees had only seven hits but that was enough.
I had to run upstairs and file, so I wasn’t able to listen to all of Joe Torre’s postgame. But both and and Jorge Posada said how impressed they were with Kei Igawa’s pitches. It’s the consistency of the pitches they want to see improve.
Posada said Igawa works up in the zone, which is unusual. He also isn’t afraid to throw his off-speed stuff when behind in the count. That could make him effective.
As Torre said, Igawa is overthrowing at times and that’s undoubtedly because he’s trying to impress his new team.
He’s going to get a few more starts this spring and we’ll find out a little more each time. Is he the Japanese Jaret Wright or the Japanese Tom Glavine? Hard to say.
For those of you concerned with such things, RHP Tyler Clippard was reassigned after the game.
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on Thursday, March 15th, 2007 at 9:33 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
If A-Rod was underdog, who are Rocky and Bullwinkle?
I’m pretty sure Igawa isn’t the Japanese Tom Glavine. Tom Glavine was pretty damn good in his age 27 season—3.20 ERA in 239.3 season.
igawa will carve his own path. i doubt glavine ever had trouble throwing the ball over the plate, or hitting the corners.
my question with igawa (for what little it’s worth)is if he’s a little nervous and maybe overthrowing in spring training, what’s he going to be like when the heat is on in the middle of a pennant race?
I’m pretty sure Kei Igawa isn’t the Japanese Jaret Wright.
i take it back. glavine walked 33 batters in 50 innings during his first season with atlanta. maybe he was overthrowing, nervous while trying to impress the bosses. sound familiar?
Pete – Tyler Clippard really excelled at AA last spring. He’s been under the radar all spring… any news on him? How has he looked? And do the Yankees envision him in their future plans or is he a soft-tosser who puts up numbers in the minors (I think Joe Roa). What’s the word on Mr. Clippard?
Thanks! Love the Blog
Igawa is getting used to quite a few new things, not the least of which are the baseballs. Let’s see how he looks once he’s at least accustomed to what they use over here.
people have to calm the hell down w/ Kei , he’s getting use to the MLB it’s spring training working your flaws out , the game I saw today he struck out Chipper Jones and Andrew Jones , his curve is sick , he’s getting 5 K’s in 3 IP he’s going to be fine , relax the offense can carry him in yr. 1 but he is not going to be a stinker in the Bronx either.
And please w/ the what’s he going to do in a pennant race arguement this guy was a 20 game winner in Japan not an easy thing to do if you ask me and has been a big time playoff pitcher over there, give him time, his profile is David Wells like, not afraid to pitch inside a battler and a strike out leader.
We acknowledge a transition for pitchers coming from the NL to the AL. So I would guess the transition to an entirely new league would be even greater.
It’s still spring training and the guy is adjusting to so many things right now—a new ball, a new catcher, a new team, a new country, all new hitters. The fact that he’s still shown an ability to strike people out at a high rate is rather impressive. I think his velocity is better than advertised and his changeup and curve are the plus pitches they were supposed to be.
I don’t want to suggest race has anything to do with it, but people seem very eager to bury Igawa. He’s going to make the team—this much is obvious—so let’s just see what he has to offer. I think he will an above-average pitcher who keeps his team in the game. His walk rates weren’t horrible in Japan, so I think he will work that out as the year goes on.
But as others have noted—he will be a marked improvement to the back-end of the rotation.
u guys remember a couple of years ago when we had tim redding starting?
we got nothing to worry about yet, calm down
Iggy’s got good stuff but he’s got to relax. If he can relax, he can get the fastball over and pitch ahead. If he pitches ahead, that curveball is going to mess with a lot of hitters. He’s adjusting, and he will improve each time out – - I hope.
If, however, he can’t get the pitch count down and be more efficient by the end of May, I think Cash and Joe will lose patience with 4 inning, 75 pitch outings where he gives up 4 runs. Worst case is he is asked to go to Scranton until he gets his control back. I don’t think that’s panicky and it may be just a couple of starts at AAA.
I agree with those who say that Igawa is not another Irabu. Irabu actualy had a top shelf arm (albiet attached to a bottom shelf head) while this soft-tosser with spotty control has, at best, average stuff. Factor in the pressure of living up to the contract, the culture shock, and the fact that he’s already floating excuses (the ball’s different, I need sunglasses to pitch) and I will be shocked if he contributes on a meaningful level.
Which article do you think we’ll see first, the one where “people close to Cashman” (translation: Cashman) claim that getting Igawa was engineered by “the guys in Tampa” or the article where Billy Connors says he can fix him? Actually, it’ll probably all be in the same article.
Also, Karstens belongs in the rotation here, but if politics keeps him out then he should be starting in Scranton instead of rotting in the Bronx as the seventh guy out of the pen.
[...] Yankees defeated Braves 3-2 win [...]
As has been noted elsewhere, Irabu for all his faults was decent for the 1998 Yanks. He fell apart later.
I like the ks, obviously and the BBs are a concern, but let’s take it easy, shall we? There’s time yet for him to settle down and refine his control. If he doesn’t, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him in AAA (or extended ST) and Karstens used as the 5th starter. Which would be fine by me.
I got a good feeling we’re going to see Clippard back up with the big team before too long. I really like his stuff.
“I agree with those who say that Igawa is not another Irabu. Irabu actualy had a top shelf arm (albiet attached to a bottom shelf head) while this soft-tosser with spotty control has, at best, average stuff.
Also, Karstens belongs in the rotation here, but if politics keeps him out then he should be starting in Scranton instead of rotting in the Bronx as the seventh guy out of the pen.”
since when did ST innings become so important? Igawa has a track record of 1200 innings in Japan of excellent pitching. Karstens has had ONE stop in the minors above the NY Penn League where he had an ERA under 4 and 6 average-ish starts in the majors.
Karstens throws 91-ish, Igawa throws 91-ish, but only one is a “soft tosser”??
i like Karstens and would love for him to succeed, but this is some crazy overreacting.
Igawa did NOT have spotty control in 1200 innings in Japan, why would i give his 3 spring training starts more weight than his last 6 seasons?
it’s spring training. i’d like to see the actual season start first before i label Igawa a bust.
Hmmm,
I’ll take ten in a row in the American minor leagues and six striaght solid starts in the Majors (including stand-up performances against Anaheim and Toronto) over a 12-9 record in Japan.
As to what’s happened so far this Spring, if it’s an open competition Karstens wins in every measurable way.
I also don’t buy the whole “Spring Training means nothing” jive. Sure for a proven guy like Mussina, it’s a time to work on things and get loose. But Igawa and Karstens are both trying to prove they belong here. So far only one has.
Totally agree. Kei Igawa was a very good control pitcher in Japan. I give a lot more attention to his scouting report than to what he has done in spring training. I think he is simply overdoing it and needs to take a step back and pitch like his old self. I’m not really worried at all.
As for Jeff Karstens, I really don’t want to see him as the long man out of the pen. I know being in the majors might seem to be the ultimate goal, but I believe him to be a legit starting pitcher in the big leagues. Not a frontline pitcher; more along the lines of a fourth or fifth starter. But I would create a rotation of Hughes-Clippard-Sanchez-Ohlendorf-Karstens in Scranton and let them dominate down there for awhile. Inevitably, we are going to need a replacement when pitchers go down (as they always do) and the one who is excelling down there will get the call up. In terms of the MLB bullpen, I would go with Rivera-Farnsworth-Proctor-Villone/Henn-Myers-Vizcaino-Bruney/Britton.
I wonder how many people know what kind of pitcher Irabu actually was when he was in Japan. While it’s true that he had a very good strikeout ratio prior to joining the Yanks (1,111 Ks over 1,101.2 IP = 9.1 K/9IP), he also had a fairly high BB/9 ratio as well (507 BBs over 1,101.2 IP = 4.1 BB/9IP).
Igawa, on the other hand, has done much better (1,149 Ks over 1244 IP = 8.3 K/9IP and 395 BBs over 1244 IP = 2.9 BB/9IP).
Here are some other facts that might be of interest for those trying to compare Irabu to Igawa:
200+ Innings Piched: Irabu(2) Igawa(4)
Double-digit Win Seasons: Irabu(4) Igawa(5)
14+ Win Seasons: Irabu (1) Igawa (4)
In Irabu’s defense, he was also used as a reliever earlier on during his career. It wasn’t really until 2-3 years before coming over to the Majors that he was more of a starter.
In 1,101.2 IP Irabu gave up 79 HRs, threw 70 WP, and had a 1.30 WHIP.
In 1,244.0 IP Igawa gave up 116 HRs, threw 33 WP, and had a 1.24 WHIP.
The one thing Igawa has going against him is his propensity to give up the long ball. But if he can keep runners off the bases, then that shouldn’t be too much of a problem.
Igawa wasn’t always so easy to give up the long ball. Prior to the 2004 season, he had only given up 47 HRs over 662.1IP, compared to 69 HRs over 581.2IP between 2004 and 2006. I might attribute some of that to overwork. I think the Yanks will really need to be careful about fatigue with Igawa. In that sense, he might be another Wright.
” Sure for a proven guy like Mussina, it’s a time to work on things and get loose. But Igawa and Karstens are both trying to prove they belong here.”
says who, you?
how do you know Igawa isn’t just “working on things and getting loose”?
he has a 5 year contract. why should he be “trying to prove he belongs”? he’s not going anywhere.
and he has 12 K’s in 7 innings so far. that’s not bad for someone with “average stuff”.
Thanks Gwynar for presenting factual information.
From some of these comments, you’d think Igawa underhanded the ball. And these Irabu comparisons are ridiculous for two reasons: they make no sense (oh I get it, Igawa and Irabu are both Japanese pitchers whose names start with “I” ... they must be the same person!), and they make it seem as if Irabu was useless as a Yankee. Does anyone remember 1998? I heard the team, which included one Hideki Irabu in its rotation, had a pretty good year back then.
As a side note, Irabu did decline in 1999. But then we traded him to the Expos for Ted Lilly and Jake Westbrook. Getting another Irabu would not be the end of the world.
randyhater,
Igawa’s record in Japan is probably the worst way to assess his ability. I don’t know the first thing about the kind of run support and defense he got on the Hanshin Tigers, and those things factor heavily into a pitcher’s record. But since Igawa’s record means a lot to you, I’m sure you’ll fill me in on those details.
However, since we’re discussing Igawa’s record, he never had a 12-9 season. Last season he went 14-9 with a 2.97 ERA. In 2003 he went 20-5 with a 2.80 ERA. That’s plenty of “solid starts.”
Everything about Igawa’s career suggests that he deserves a chance in the majors and that the Yankees may have gotten a good deal on him. This whole “he has to prove himself” concept is crap. Why does he have to prove himself more than anyone else? He just has to pitch as well as he can, and if his pitching here is anywhere near as good as his pitching in Japan, we will both be glad he’s on the team.
I pretty much only saw Igawa pitch, but I think the last time the Yankees used a suicide squeeze bunt was in the final game of 2006 spring training. I’d be really surprised to see it during the regular season.
Just wanted to add a couple more things…
Errors are scarcely called in the NPB. It partially has to do with honor and not wanting to point out specific players for a fault (it’s a cultural thing), but I digress. But because balls put into play that might be considered errors in the MLB are called hits, almost every stat is skewed.
The ballparks tend to be smaller than US ballparks (the deepest distance down the left field line is 330, the deepest distance to center is 400 and the deepest down the right field line is 330), many also tend to have fairly high walls (I think more than half have walls 10+ ft high). Ballparks also tend to be symmetrical over here. Most fields are artificial turf.
Workloads are vastly different. Just to name a couple: shorter seasons, 6-man rotations, shorter travel distances.
IMHO, I think Igawa will be fine. The Yanks aren’t counting on him to be an ace. AFAIK all they want out of Igawa is a reliable back-of-the-rotation starter. The fact that he’s young (turns 28 on July 13) AND a lefty, I think makes him a solid choice to take a risk on. And while I do worry about the number of homers he gave up over the last 3 years here in Japan, I think the larger MLB ballparks AND Yankee Stadium should help. He just really needs to relax and stay focused on throwing strikes.
Jeremy,
Whether he won 14 games or 12 isn’t really the point. The guy clearly doesn’t have dominant major league stuff. Doesn’t mean he can’t possibly be successful, but the idea that he has nothing to prove and should be handed a spot (same as Wang, Pettitte and Mussina) based on a few good years in Japan is ludicrous.
For my money, him, Pavano and Karstens should have come to camp on equal footing and been made to compete for jobs, with a tie going to the guys with the big contracts.
I hope you’re right and I’m wrong. But I think the baggage that weighed down Contreras and Irabu (who were clearly superior talents) will be too much for a guy who’ll have to be perfect to succeed.
randyhater,
I think the stats Gwynar and I cited show that he does have the stuff to be a decent back-end starter, which is what we’re paying him to be. He was dominant in four of his last six seasons, and good in the other two. And Gwynar’s stats indicate that it’s Igawa, not Irabu, who was the better talent in Japan.
I agree with you that no one should get a guaranteed spot in the rotation – I misunderstood what you meant by “something to prove.” However, I think that Igawa’s Japanese stats are so good that he should get the chance to start the season in the rotation. If he can’t perform there, he should be sent down and replaced.
Incidentally, I am also a big fan of Karstens and would like to see him in the rotation. He is only 23, so it’s not as if he will shrivel and die should he not start the season for us. What I’d like to see is the following:
Starting rotation is Wang-Mussina-Pettitte-Igawa-Pavano. Pavano pitches decently and we trade him during the season. We replace him with Karstens.
“The guy clearly doesn’t have dominant major league stuff.”
neither does Karstens.
Igawa threw 62 pitches – 29 for strikes, but the first two batters saw 10 pitches, only one of which was a strike. After Gator and Posada told Igawa what to adjust, he struck out 3 in a row. So, if you take away the first 10 pitches of the night (after the adjustments), he really threw 52 pitches and 28 for strikes. 47% pf his pitches were strikes up to 54%. If he continues to improves his control (hopefully by the end of April when the 5th starter really comes into play), he’ll be ok. But I can see what people were concerned about his K/BB ratio per 9. No one has really been impressed so far. For the $46 mil spent, I think people were expecting more of a Karstens type of performance (hence the calls for Karstens to start). But not many people realize, he hasn’t thrown since November and had a more rigoruos training style in Japan than here.
But I wish Torre/Cash would be more open to giving the starting spot to someone who performs better out of spring training that to how much their paying them. But I can understand their reasoning.
If you paid $45,000 for a new Lexus and $300 for a Civic (and couldn’t sell or trade either for 4 years), and then found that the Civic was faster than the Lexus and had better feul economy, would you be more prone to driving the Lexus around or the Civic?? I’d probably stick with the Lexus just because I dumped all that money into it… oy.
But again, it’s still just spring. Maybe the Lexus needs some more breaking in. Who knows? Still… I would like to think that Torre and Cash would be open enough to consider a rotation change if Igawa (or Pavano) prooved to be ineffective, despite the investment implications.
“But I wish Torre/Cash would be more open to giving the starting spot to someone who performs better out of spring training that to how much their paying them. But I can understand their reasoning.”
i would prefer the guy who has performed better over the last 6 seasons than the guy who has been better in his 9 ST innings over the other guy’s 7 ST innings.
after all, it’s not like once you set the rotation out of ST, it’s locked for the season. you have to see what Igawa can do in the majors. you start him in the rotation. if he sucks, you send him down and call up Karstens.
True, but his six seasons were in Japan. I’m not pushing him out by any means, but I just hope that Torre would be more swayed by performance than money spent. But I don’t think you can just ignore the $46 mil you dumped on someone whether or not someone else may be pitching better. It’s just not realistic.
Right on hmmm! Jeff Karstens is no better than Kei Igawa anyways.