Yanks thumped; Minky gets a hit
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Mar 19, 2007 
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The Yankees lost 9-1 as Jeff Karstens and Chris Britton allowed nine runs in five innings.
But Doug Mientkiewicz doubled to right field against Victor Zambrano in the ninth inning, driving a 3-1 pitch to right field. He was 1 for 3 with a walk.
He had been 1 for 25 (.040) before the double. Now he’s at .077. Is there a difference?
“I can sleep tonight,” Mientkiewicz told me in the clubhouse just after he came off the field. “I put the barrel of the bat on the ball three times today. I’m making progress.”
I know a lot of you are ready to throw Mientkiewicz under the bus. But give him a shot. You won’t see it in the box score but A-Rod threw wildly in the first inning and Mientkiewicz came off the bag to get the ball and swiped a tag on Lyle Overbay as he went by.
Minky will do that two or three times a series and there’s value in that.
Here’s what Joe Torre said about it:
“Is it more beneficial to help your pitching staff and be more defensive oriented? Certainly if don’t score runs we can’t sit here and blame Mientkiewicz. That’s my whole thought process. Not when you have a second baseman like we have, a shortstop like we have and the production that the center fielder puts out plus a catcher. You’re stealing from some positions that are defensive positions.”
No more audio today. Too windy.
So all Minky needs is a cream puff pitch…from a medicore pitcher…in a hitters count…in garbage time…to get good wood? Pardon me if I’m unimpressed.
Wow, ARod can throw “wildly” and not just off the mark or up the line and Minky can still overcomes ARod’s wildness and get a put out? That’s worth a spot on the roster. Heck, if he can really do that he’s worth more than 1 spot! We should go with 13 or maybe 14 pitchers, because that is A LOT of ballplayer.
Wait a minute – what if he can pitch too. Then we could carry fewer pitchers.
The possibilities seem endless!
if Doug hits .270 for us this year and has a great year with the glove as first, i’m happy with that.
Minky isn’t an elite hitter so you’re not supposed to be impressed with his bat. It’s not like it’s his first season in the bigs so we aren’t trying to figure out if he can make contact. He’ll hit to the back of his baseball card by the end of the season. (Hopefully more like last year).
His job is to save errors from Udoggie and Jetes and allow Cano a bit of additional range to his right and Minky will put the ball in play. One relatively light hitting lefty in that lineup will not be a problem.
i agree with matt and m-dog. if he’s hitting under .200 in early may, then maybe phelps or phillips gets a few more at-bats. we’re going to the mattresses with minky.
“You won’t see it in the box score but A-Rod threw wildly in the first inning and Mientkiewicz came off the bag to get the ball and swiped a tag on Lyle Overbay as he went by.”
Aw, Pete, that’s why we have YOU to point out every little thing A-Rod does wrong.
We have a group of pitchers who need defense and don’t strike a lot of people out.Wang’s sinker,Pettite’s cutter,Panavno’s sinker,Mussina too and someone may throw ball away.In my opinion,We need Minky’s grove.
I have been watched quite spring training game.Minky’s number isn’t as bad as it look.He gets some bad break.He also makes a lot of bat contact,walks a few and doesn’t strike out a lot.Remember,he bats in the bottom of order.In my opinion,he will be fine.We can’t give outs away.Remember,Our starters were suffer when someone made couple of errors behind them.Minky may save that.Also,it’s just spring training now.Don’t throw him under the bus now.You can do that when it happen on the regular season.
ARod had a hit today, but the reason he never made it to second was because Minky GIDP’D, you’ll probably see that in a boxscore. Minky’s not some elite defender. Not lately anyway and anyone who thinks the throws he’ll save over Phelps or a real first basemen can make up for his lame offense is vastly overrating his defense and first base as a defensive position.
I’ll never understand why the Yanks should be satisfied with subpar players on any position just because they already have a good offense. How is an automatic out at first base ever a good thing? How is having a backup catcher who simply cannot hit a good thing?
Shouldn’t a team try to put the best player possible at each and every position? Why just basically give up on the first base position?
Pete,
Will you have a tab running this year on how many throws ARod boucnces to first?
All hail the true Karstens. Britton sucks.
rainbowtrout, while he’s not an elite hitter, he’s no auto-out either. They didn’t give up on anything, it’s what’s available. Who would you like to trade to get a better 1B or BACK-UP catcher and what do you expect to get in return?
Now we are starting to see the real Karstens.
Don’t throw Igawa under the bus yet. I just hope he doesnt freak at Yankee Stadium.
So, I guess this means that we won’t be trading Carl Pavano for a bag of magic beans in the future?
Hey, Peter, All Yankees Fans knows that Minkeweitcz’s horrible hitter and has good glove in first base. I would like to see Josh Phelps playing in first base and Doug M should be defensive replacement in late innings.
Not that I’m some big Minky fan or anything, but these are not “horrible” numbers for a #8 or 9 hitter……
2006 Season Stats
SPLIT G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB BA OBP SLG
Season 91 314 37 89 24 2 4 43 3 .283 .359 .411
Career 870 2843 359 768 189 9 59 348 14 .270 .359 .405
“Now we’re starting to see the true Karstens.”
Are you guys kidding me? He threw 9 scoreless innings prior to this game. A little harsh, are we not?
“I’ll never understand why the Yanks should be satisfied with subpar players on any position just because they already have a good offense.”
i don’t think they are. please provide the list of available 1Bman the Yankees should have gotten instead.
“How is an automatic out at first base ever a good thing?”
please explain how someone with a career OBP of .359 is an automatic out. he’s a tougher out than Tino Martinez. he has the same career OBP as Mattingly.
Mientkiewicz is a sub-par hitter b/c he has little power, but he’s not an out machine.
Chris NY,
But they are horrible numbers for a 1B. The lineup order doesn’t matter, the point is that the Yankees are getting well below average production from their 1B, that offsets the plus production they get from SS and 2B. I don’t understand this logic of they can “afford” to give up some offense, you want as much offense as you can get, period. Any you give up is just more numbers in the L column. I suggest going back a bit to Steve Goldman’s excellent anaylsis in his pinstriped blog and bible. Page back a few archived entries and he discusses these points rather well.
Tommy, I don’t disagree they’re not great #’s for a 1B, but I do agree with others (including Mr. Torre) that state we’re getting well above avg production out of 3 other positions, so yes can afford to lose some production at 1B. Given the choice, would we rather have Texeira, of course, but as I said and as hmmm said, who is the alternative that actually is AVAILABLE or who would you be willing to trade to get someone of that caliber?
We’ve been spoiled by having an all-star at every position. It isn’t realistic and it didn’t win us any championships either.
“Are you guys kidding me? He threw 9 scoreless innings prior to this game. A little harsh, are we not?”
please, most people here have decided Igawa is a bust after 7 innings.
Chris,
At this point, I like carrying Phelps, with possibly Andy as a LIDR and emergency UIF. Minky just doesn’t save *that* many runs at 1B, its not a prime defensive position and he’s not Keith Hernandez. He’s old, coming off back surgery and has never been a good hitter. Maybe he’ll bounce back, I’d love to see it (and he seems like a nice guy) but I don’t think, at this point he should be on the team. Here’s to hoping he proves me wrong.
Fortunately, Peter, there are ways we can evaluate everyone’s favorite Minky outside of the newspaper box score or “I saw him do this wicked sweet catch.” From Mike Plugh ( http://canyonofheroes.blogspot.....money.html ) –
“Let’s look at what Doug Mientkiewicz has done the last several years, shall we?
“VORP
2004 Minnesota (-2.6)
2004 Boston (-6.4)
2005 NY Mets (-0.2)
2006 Kansas City (6.2)
“EQA
2004 Minnesota (.241)
2004 Boston (.200)
2005 NY Mets (.255)
2006 Kansas City (.265)
“WARP3
2004 Minnesota (1.0)
2004 Boston (0.0)
2005 NY Mets (1.0)
2006 Kansas City (2.0)
“Now let’s turn our attention to his strong suit….DEFENSE!!!
“RATE (100 = league average)
2004 Minnesota (96)
2004 Boston (100)
2005 NY Mets (94)
2006 Kansas City (93)
“RAA (Runs Above Average)
2004 Minnesota (-3)
2004 Boston (0)
2005 NY Mets (-5)
2006 Kansas City (-6)
“If you look at these numbers, Johnny Damon saw league average defense over the course of 47 games. That was the best of Doug Mientkiewicz over the last 3 seasons. The last two seasons he’s gotten progressively worse. His physical condition no longer allows him to play that great defense, and has robbed him of any ability at the plate. If you field Mientkiewicz at first this season, you will be putting the equivalent of a backup catcher in the lineup at a position that you can throw a dead cat and hit a 20 homer, .900 OPS guy. This guy has 1080 total at bats over the last 3 years. He has a total of 21 home runs and 120 RBIs in that span. That’s the equivalent of two full seasons of play in which he would have averaged 10 home runs and 60 RBIs from 1st.”
“I don’t understand this logic of they can “affordâ€? to give up some offense, you want as much offense as you can get, period.”
i agree with this 100%, and in general can’t stand when people say you can “afford” to give up offense…but the point is, there were no other alternatives.
i would NOT have wanted Cashman to give Aubrey Huff 3 years, $21M. Hillenbrand got what, $6M? and is a total jerkoff. Millar? maybe, i guess, yuck…
hmmmm,
As I just said above, I’d rather Phelps be on the team and use Andy as a LIDR, or even better carry a 5th 0F like one of the Kevins. I agree it was tough to get a good 1B this year, but having a platoon of guys who have no platoon splits and all basically can’t hit at a non-prime defensive position is stupid.
ChrisV82,
One question, do those defensive metrics take into account his fielding on throws? or just balls hit to him? Everyone seems to claim he’s great at digging out throws or stretching, is there any way to quantify that?
“If you field Mientkiewicz at first this season, you will be putting the equivalent of a backup catcher in the lineup at a position that you can throw a dead cat and hit a 20 homer, .900 OPS guy”
i agree with 95% of the canyon of heros post, up until this part.
there were a grand total of THIRTY players in the majors who put up a .900 OPS last year. that’s 1 per team.
that kind of talent isn’t as freely available as some would have you think, no matter what position they play.
LOL @ the negativity on the board. You don’t have to have Superman at everyone position to get to the championship (just as the tigers) or win a world series (just as the cardinals). Name one team that has 9 batters all batting above .300. Or have 9 batters with 30+ HRS. There isn’t because there are 30 teams out there fighting for the same talent and one single team isn’t going is going to get the best at every position at the same time.
The Yankees can afford to give up a little offense for a little defense; Peter’s example of Doug saving an A-Rod throw and getting the out shows how defense can help. When you can score 900+ runs a season and bring back most of the people who helped make those runs you should be okay.
The Yanks have a lot of offense in A-Rod, Jeter, Cano, Matsui, Damon, Abreu, Giambi, Posada and Cabrerra and I doubt that all 9 will go into a major slump at the same time. And Doug won’t always be an out. So he grounded into a dp today…that doesn’t mean he’s never going to get any hits or any RBIs. I do believe that Jeter hit into two dps last week, why aren’t we talking about getting rid of him….because he has shown he can do better as has Doug so give him more than 30 or so at bats before you kick him to the curb, he is worth something to the Yankees.
As for Karstens, pitchers are going to have off games and get burned once in a while, that is the name of the game. I’m still impressed and I hope he makes the team as a starter or long reliver.
“As I just said above, I’d rather Phelps be on the team and use Andy as a LIDR, or even better carry a 5th 0F like one of the Kevins”
i would like Phelps on the team as well, but raise your hand if you KNEW 2 months ago that Phelps would be hitting like this. how could you?
the bottom line is this, if you didn’t sign Mientkiewicz, the Yankees were looking at the POSSIBILITY of running Phillips out there as their starting 1Bman. and say what you want about Mientkiewicz, but the smart money would be on Mientkiewicz to outhit Phillips this year.
also, for the record, i would have just brought back Craig Wilson for a year. but for whatever reason, the Yankees or Torre didn’t want him back. so i guess he wasn’t an option.
Fan27,
You don’t have to do that, but it would surely be a great team if you did. Yes you can win with subpar production at one or more positions, but if you don’t have to, why would you? Can you show me real data that says Minky saves so many runs defensively? All the stats I’ve seen peg him as a below average to average defender the last few years.
I can easily give you a scenario, lets see, Posada gets hurt for a few months and then Cano pulls another hamstring. That leaves Pratt/Nieves, Cairo and Minky at the bottom of the lineup during that time. That sequence of events happened last year and would kill us this year.
ChrisV82, well done.
The fact that the Yankee FO can’t (or won’t) find something better to slot at the easiest defensive position in baseball just baffles me.
hmmmm,
Agree with you on all points. My objection wasn’t in bringing Minky to camp, its insisting that he is on the team and contributing at the moment. I also agree, Wilson was the better option, and could play catcher or OF in an emergency. In just as small a sample size last year, Torre decided he hated Wilson, but Minky, batting .077 gets a free pass? I don’t understand.
again, WHO is the better option……. and who are you willing to give up for them (since they’re not on the FA market)……….??
Chris NY,
Craig Wilson
Where have you gone Tino Martinez……………?
A little piece of my soul dies every time people fall back on Minky’s defense. It’s all hype/reputation. He hasn’t been a stellar defensive 1B for quite some time now. Unless he found the Fountain of Youth while hanging out in Tampa I seriously he’s going to get any better. If he’s still on the roster in late May I will be very disappointed.
Is Craig Wilson any better? (not disagreeing with you, genuinely asking…….)
Yes, his OPS+ is 115 for his career, Minky’s is a whopping 99, and that is raised by his earlier seasons. Lately he’s been more in the 80-90 range. I’m not sure on Wilson’s fielding, but he’s more versatile that Minky, and frankly we’ve shown Minky is average at best with the glove these days.
Would’ve been great if Andy Phillips came out this spring and proved to be the “better hitter than we saw last year” that Torre and Company think he is, could then cut Minky and let Phelps go back to Philly, keep Kevin Thompson up as a 5 OF/pinch-runner type…..
In case you don’t want to go through all the numbers in ChrisV82′s post, here is the truth about Mientkiewicz in nice, big capital letters: HE IS A BELOW-AVERAGE FIELDER. (Added bonus: there is virtually no chance he will suddenly get better, because he has a bad back.)
What is a below-average fielder? It is a guy who will make some nice plays from time to time, and fail to make plays from time to time. An individual play may impress you, but if you look at the big picture, you will see that he is nothing special on defense.
As a below-average fielder, Mientkiewicz contributes nothing positive to the Yankees’ defense in the span of 162 games.
Plus, he can’t hit.
Please explain what I’m missing.
Craig Wilson is better than Doug Mientkiewicz, and the Yankees should have re-signed him.
Defensively, they are about the same. Wilson has had a -2 FRAA for the last two years. But as ChrisV82′s stats show, Mientkiewicz was a little worse. Wilson can also play the corner outfield positions.
Offensively, Wilson is no Giambi, but he blows Mientkiewicz away. His overall lifetime .265/.354/.480 is mediocre, but he destroys lefties to the tune of a .938 OPS. If there is anyone who should be the righty in a 1B platoon, it’s Wilson. He’s bad against righties, though. Mientkiewicz is bad against all pitchers (sub-.800 OPS against lefties and righties).
Wilson is three years younger than Mientkiewicz and does not have a back on the brink of giving out. The Braves are paying him $2 million, $500,000 more than Mientkiewicz. They got a good deal.
Was Wilson still available by the time Cashman gave up on Hillenbrand or something better and signed Mink, or had he already been signed by Atlanta?
I love the fact that “Minky gets a hit” is actually a headline. (rolling eyes here)
That being said, all those of you are saying that the Yankees can “afford to give up a little on offense”, were you saying that during the ALDS against the Tigers?
As for Mientkiewicz’s defense, the best defensive 1B (I forgot where I saw this, I’ll have to see if I can dig it up, but it was based on some defensive stats… zone rating? does that make sense?) in baseball is Chris Shelton. Dougie is rated #2, and #3 is…. dum da dum…. Andy Phillips. So I don’t really get why we had to go get Mientkiewicz if we already had good defense at that position.
Chris- yeah.
I agree that we should’ve resigned Wilson.
given him a chance at the position all year long.
I think we would’ve liked the results.
but, what do I know?
I’m a fan. I’m no GM, or coach.
I’m not even a flig-a-ma-jig-it, or whatever Peter quoted those pseudo-reporters that pop down there and ask silly questions.
Chris- I should clarify.
if my memory serves me correctly, we had already given indication that we were not interested in retaining Wilson. He then signed with Atlanta. Then we picked up Minky, after flirting with Hillebrand.
The Yankees signed Mientkiewicz on January 5. The Braves signed Wilson on January 18.
My guess is that the Yankees weren’t interested in Wilson because, frankly, he hit like crap during his stint here.
I give Mientkiewicz a lot of grief, but you remind me that signing Hillenbrand would have been the worst move of all.
EV raises a good point. Our last three playoff eliminations were due in a big part to dead bats up and down the lineup. Seeing Mientkiewicz batting in the playoffs would not make me feel good no matter how much offense we have at catcher, second base, and shortstop. When Mientkiewicz is up, those guys can only watch from the dugout.
Why should Mientkiewicz get a shot? The players who should get a shot are Phelps, Basak, and of course, A-Rod.
Mets will win the world series, Yanks will lose first round of playoffs again.
You are all forgetting one important fact about Mientkiewicz:
He and A-Rod are best buds from high school!!!!
Who else can dive and snag those wild throws and tag the runner, then go into the dugout and cheer up A-Rod? The answer is no one. While I am in complete agreement with Mientkiewicz’s ability, he is the best choice to keep A-Rod in check this season. Personally release Phillips and Cairo and keep Phelps and Basak.
Also, Torre is giving life to a myth. 1B is the least important defensive position on the field. He is misinforming the fans by saying things that aren’t factual.
That being said, all those of you are saying that the Yankees can “afford to give up a little on offense�, were you saying that during the ALDS against the Tigers?
We DID have the better offense 1Bs in the line up and they didn’t fair well, so how can having Doug in the line up cause them to do worse?
1B is the least important defensive position on the field.
Really? So someone who can’t catch the ball, dig any of the errant throws out of the dirt, dive and snag some of the liners down the first baseline would be okay with you as long as he can hit 35-40 hrs a season? I would say first base is the one were you need the best arm the least but it is most definitely a necessary defensive position and its not as easy to play as some may think.
Anyone know the avg of outs per game that take place at first base? I’m sure its high.
DOn’t Feed the Troll Alex.. Mets will be in last place and Willie Randolph will get fired from his Job.
If Minky hits .250, I’ll take it. I remember in the spring of 1996 how Yankee fans were so upset when the Yanks sacrificed some offense for defense when they got Joe Girardi at the expense of Mike Stanley.
Seems like that move turned out ok.
it worked out so well the yankees decided to trade Tony Armas Jr. to get Stanley back in 1997, and the Red Sox used Armas and some bum named Pavano to get Pedro Martinez.
Um yeah, really, if of course facts matter.
Defense up the middle and at 3B are important. Then the corner OFers. No 1Bman can save nearly as many runs with his glove to compensate for a weak bat.
If Mientkiewicz isn’t hitting by June he’ll be gone. He isn’t even that good defensively anymore.
…and never mind the 3 World Series that Girardi helped the Yanks win? Never mind the triple off of Maddux in Game 6 of the 1996 Series? Sheesh.
BTW, for all the knocking of Minky…. He had a higher OPS than Bernie Williams in three of the last four years.
Craig Wilson? Are people forgetting 34 Ks in 104 at bats as a Yankee last year?
Minky is a known quantity at the price the Yanks wanted to pay. Nobody is expecting gold glove, but they will get solid D. (Not perfect, solid). He’s an upgrade over what the Yanks had at first last year. He’s a vast defensive improvement over Giambi, and better than Phillips and Phelps and that’s all he really needs to be to improve the team.
Here’s how he helps the offense: he keeps Giambi healthier by keeping Giambi at DH. If Giambi stays healthier, you’ll get more production out of him. In fact, I’ll enrage all you pseudo-sabermetricians out there by saying that I bet Giambi’s extra production comes close to offsetting Minky’s weak wood by the end of the season. Go make an algorithm to figure that one out.
Anyway, look…. it’s a long season. If things are not going well by June, then y’all can start getting twitchy. But I promise you, if things are bad by June, it won’t be due to Minky’s bat. So, relax and enjoy. Opening day is just around the corner.
“…and never mind the 3 World Series that Girardi helped the Yanks win? Never mind the triple off of Maddux in Game 6 of the 1996 Series? Sheesh.”
ehh, i’m just kidding around.
the only problem i had with the girardi era is that it pushed posada’s time back a few years and maybe cost him a shot at the Hall of Fame, but there’s not much you can do about that.
Hey guys, so after 60 or so posts what’s the difference? Minky is our first baseman. Brian Cashman isn’t reading this blog. He looked at what was available and made his decision.
Some more productive discussion would be focusing on who the Yankees should target next year – or before the trading deadline. I remember picking up a pretty decent right fielder last year at the dealine. No one says Minky is our 1B for the full year.
As far as I can tell, FA 1B for ’08 are Carlos Guillen (32 years old) and Adam Dunn (28 years old with a $13 million club option for ’08). Not sure if I’d want either long term if Mark T is available in 2 years and wants to be a Yankee.
You hear it here first. Mientkiewicz will be this years world series MVP.
Bernie Williams? Seriously? That’s a good reason for any player to retire.
Except for how hit RH last season:
RH OPS
2006: .936
Switch hitting power at first. Now that would be sweet. Teixeira will also be 28 in two years I think. Peak of his career. But won’t Texas lock him up before that? But, who knows what kind of moves Cash could make with all those young cheap arms – and Texas needing arms so bad. Hhhmmm.
“You hear it here first. Mientkiewicz will be this years world series MVP.”
The only way I’m fine with that is if he’s still on the Yankees by then.
The logic of Torre and some posters here astounds me.
The Yankees have a decided offensive advantage over replacement level at the important end of the defensive spectrum (C,SS, 2B and CF). So now they should squander some of that advantage by playing a womackian level player because he used to play good defense.
There are superior options within the organization…
i dont think any of the defensive statistical equations take into account how a 1b fields errant throws. when a guy like Wang is pitching (and Arod is the 3b), that is extremely important. this ST, i’ve also seen him ‘steal’ a few close calls, where the runner may have been safe. that’s from experience. you know, he kinds catches the throw and steps off the bag in the same motion, selling the call to the ump, and it’s worked everytime (2-4 times that i’ve seen). that also isnt measured by stats.
i’m not saying definitively Minky is the answer, but he is NOT below average defensively. D stats still have a ways to go before they tell the whole story, as i believe my examples have illustrated.
he is an average hitter (by OPS+), and has a very high OBP (higher than Damon’s!). he wont slug, but he’ll take pitches, wont K much (has almost a 1:1 k/bb for his career), and knows AL pitchers well.
i didnt want Wilson for his incredible k rate (he has the longest swing in the world). and i’m certainly willing to give Phelps the chance to be the everyday 1b (if it was up to me). however, Phelps wont his this well all year, and Minky wont hit this poorly all year. that’s why there will be two 1b. when minky’s cold, Phelps plays, and vice versa. but having two will allow Giambi to stay healthier, and that is very valuable.
we’ve had bad luck with guys who have bad backs.