Would you make this trade?
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Mar 27, 2007 
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Here’s a trade I make right now:
RHP Kyle Farnsworth to Philadelphia for RHP Jon Lieber and C Chris Coste.
Farnsworth has $10.75 million left on his deal and Lieber $7.5 million, so the money is almost a wash. Lieber (oblique strain) is injured at the moment but has proven he can pitch well in New York (14-8, 4.31 in 2004).
Lieber provides better insurance than Karstens or Rasner would. Coste is a better backup catcher than Pratt or Nieves. Farnsworth would be a loss but he is unreliable because of his back and inability to maintain his command on consecutive days. If Mo isn’t working the 8th inning, is Krazy Kyle your guy?
lieber didn’t make the phillies rotation. he may have “proven” he can pitch in new york, but he’s cooked.
I didn’t want them to let Lieber go after ’04, but I’m not so sure I’d make that trade now. Wasn’t he just so/so in the weak NL? His age would have to be a factor and I guess it would also depend on how much trust we have in the Bruney’s and Britton’s, etc to fill a slot in the bullpen.
I trust Proctor enough with the 8th, but then the question would be how has Viscaino (sp?) done this spring to earn the same trust? I haven’t seen anything of him, so that’s a question, not a statement of doubt…
I don’t know anything about Coste either. Is he a big upgrade over the other two or marginal?
no way you make that deal Pete, Kyle was solid last year I mean take out one of his worst apperances and his ERA looks a lot better, Lieber wasn’t good enough to make a 5 man rotation in the NL this year, and Coste is solid but like you said is a backup. Now if Lieber pitched better last year and has had a solid spring maybe I agree with you but right now I can’t.
I would also like to see Farnsworth without pitching so often on consecutive days. When he was on, he was lights out.
I think with his bad back and inconsistency, Farnsworth is a risk. Move up the other guys and get some one-year rotation insurance.
if lieber had an ERA of 4.3 three years ago why should we expect anything better now? we wouldn’t. we can easily get that 4.3 from rasner for a few starts until wang comes back, with phil the thrill not too far off by then. also, we should keep the farns because you know without him we are just going to be scrambling for a middle reliever at the trading deadline like we always are. additionally, the more good relievers in the pen, the less torre will fry any one of their arms.
with that said, i would love an upgrade at backup catcher, but certainly not at that cost(e).
In now way would I make this trade, it does nothing for yanks except maybe block someone in the farm from stepping up in the rotation. Trading for lieber is the exact type of poor old thinking we use to have.
If we did trade farnsworth (which I am not against) but I want something valuable and he could get that the way teams need bullpen help. Get me a good young catcher or 1b man
sorry but farns for lieber is a terrible idea.
I wouldn’t do that deal.
since when is 14-8 with a 4.3 ERA prrof he can pitch “well”? Jaret Wright was better last year and we ran him out on a rail. Leiber is a stiff- and I disagree, at this point Rasner is a better option.
I’m not saying Farnsworth is untouchable…in fact I’d move him- but he would be VERY valuable to another team where he would close…
I’d do Farnsworth for Kevin Millwood
one of the yankees strengths right now is their bullpen depth, and they’ll need it with igawa and pavano looking to repeat wright and johnson’s performances. why mess with that? lieber wouldn’t be much of an upgrade over either and he’d put a dent in the bullpen. the deal makes zero sense to me.
With a recommendation like that, don’t quit your dayjob PA…
Great blog… I read it everyday religiously… 27 in 07
Peter,
Don’t you understand? Some of us want to watch younger players. Seeing Karstans, Rasner, Clippard and Hughes is the fun of baseball. The win the WS or the season is a failure era is over.
Are you joking? Lieber is old and hes shot. We dont even know if hes an upgrade over Darrel Rasner, let alone any of the good young guys we’ll have stashed in AAA. And Chris Coste is a journeyman with one good year.
If they are going to trade the Farns, i’d rather see them kick in some money and get a bona fide prospect: catching or lefty starting prospect. We’re a bit heavy on righties in the farm system.
Nope. Farns is worth more.
Good God, that’s a horrible trade. Lieber has been injured the last two seasons and is highly overrated — his stats are usually ugly. He’s a guy who’s around the plate a lot and gets guys to put the ball in play, but his stuff is average, and his numbers back that up. He had a few nice starts in the post-season for the Yanks, but he’s cooked. So a guy the Phillies are desperate to get rid of and a backup catcher for Farnsworth? We’d be doing Philly a huge favor.
I’m glad Cashman is the GM so we don’t make stupid moves like this one. We have rotation depth. Rasner is likely to be just as good as Lieber. Same with Clippard and Ohlmendorf. Being a veteran doesn’t make you good.
Sorry, Peter. There’s no way that I can get behind trading a 30-year-old power bullpen arm for a guy who’s six years older and posted an ERA near 5 in the NL last season. Yes, he had a solid 2004 season for the Yanks, but in 2005 and 2006 he seemed to demonstrate that he is, to quote kasey, cooked. Coste isn’t enough to sweeten the deal; let’s be real here – he was a 33-year-old rookie last year who had a great season, but there’s no reason to think he can repeat it. If the Yankees owned his rights, I’d be all for giving him a shot. I don’t think that a guy like that is worth trading anything of value for.
In short, I’m much more comfortable giving The Farns a second year in pinstripes than I am Lieber. Farns has at least some potential of being better than he was in his first Yankee season. I don’t think that there’s any potential of that happening with Lieber.
On another note, what’s going to happen with Andy Phillips? Is he going to develop another mysterious long-term injury, like last season, so the team can stash him on the DL?
No way I make that trade, Peter! Everything you said about Farnsworth is on the money, but Lieber does nothing but make the Yankees older and less flexible. I am all for shopping Farnsworth so the others in the BP can move up, but we need to get someone younger on the way up….not the way out!
Love your blog but glad Cashman is the GM!
Pass.
The 34-year old Coste isn’t a sure-fire wise addition. Nice 2006, but he has much to prove.
I’m not interested in Lieber at all. Our AAA starters will provide depth as needed.
I look for Farnsworth to have a solid season.
Pete, I appreciate your attempt to prey on some of the regular poster’s infatuatuion with the back-up catching situation, but….
Lieber is a soft-tosser who would have little chance to repeat his performance in NY. He needs to stay in the NL to be even remotely valuable. Coste sounds like a Jason Michaels situation to me, as in the Phils try and get the Yanks to overpay to fill a supposed need. Just watch, the Fightin’s will release Coste sooner or later, just like they dumped uber-centerfielder Michaels (whom the Phils tried to trade for Wang). The Yanks don’t really need to reduce payroll any more and Farns has value if healthy (ie he is a luxury worth keeping around). Patience is a virtue…..
Peter didn’t someone tell you April fools is 5 days away. A little early to be making April fools jokes. You can’t possibly think that John is worth Kyle?? Can you?
Lieber has been injured since he left the yankees, he had a good stretch at the begining of the first season he was gone, but if memory serves me correctly it has been down hill since. I also think Cash had the choice between Lieber and Lidle and choose Lidle. So there is no way that Cash would trade Krazy Kyle for John “dl” Lieber.
Wow, everybody hates it. Interesting.
I’m not sold on Pavano staying healthy, Igawa making 30 starts and anybody coming up to be effective. I think with their offense, Leiber can give them innings.
Farnsworth, to me, is not a championship player. He’s young and strong as an ox yet can’t pitch consecutive days or more than one inning? I’d trade him now.
Well, I took a shot. Back to regular programming.
No worries Pete, I think we all just have similar concerns about Leiber’s effectiveness/health at this point in his career. I know for myself, I think he’s as big a risk as the young guys, so I’d rather take the chance with them, since there’s plenty of others down there if Rasner, Karstens, etc. can’t get it done.
Wouldn’t do it. If it was Leiber for Britton or someone then fine. But Im not so sure how much Leiber has left in the tank.
Sorry, but i’m with the others, I don’t like the idea. Even though Farnsworth is a risk, I believe Lieber is also a risk. Not only that, but I believe Farnsworth’s potential to having a better year as an 8th inning guy, compared to Lieber in the starting rotation, is favoring Farnsworth. I mean, it’s not that I don’t favor trading Farnsworth, but I think we could make a package type deal with Farnsworth, and including a guy like Rasner or Karstens for another guy like Lieber, who will be good insurance, but only better, and not as much of a risk health wise. He’s old, now not all old men are fragile, and it’d only be a year, but it would be pretty bad if he went down. I understand we have Proctor and Vizcaino(sp?) for the 7th/8th innning, but I’d rather have Farnsworth in our bullpen then Coste as our backup and Lieber in our rotation.
I’d be up for trading Farnsworth, 100%, but not for this deal. I mean, at least it’s reasonable considering these other moronic people with these absolutely rediculous trade ideas.
Plus, when Roger comes over here, and he decides that the bat is a ball and throws a bat at the baserunner running, who’s going to come running in and saveRoger from the charging batter? Krazy Kyle of course!
But seriously, nice try, and I don’t think Cashman wouldn mind having those two players over here, but just not for Farnsworth.
My belief is it would be far easier to promote a Lieber-caliber starter from AAA than it would be a Farnsworth-caliber reliever. And since Joe likes to play Posada 150 games per year, the backup catcher really isn’t that much of a pressing need.
There has to be a better pitcher they could get for Farns. He could close for a lot of teams right now so you think they could get a team like the Indians who don’t have a closer to give up a 3,4,or 5 pitcher that is better than Ol’Man Lieber. Also where does Lieber go when they sign Clemens
Like I said…I’d trade him too…but I wouldn’t “dump” him as you proposed in your trade.
The Mets would LOVE Farnsworth…problem is they have nothing we want.
It pains to pile on, but I “hate” the idea too. At best it’s a lateral move for the short term, and at worst it’s taking a position of strength (the bullpen) and adding to a position where New York is actually pretty deep in (starting pitching). They can’t all be winners, but it’s good to see that you’re thinking– keep up the good work.
My opinion –
For someone who can throw some serious heat, he’s about as sturdy as a toilet paper. But he does have some value. And at the moment, Lieber’s value is I think less than Farns’. Lieber is two years and on NL removed from his “breakout” year with the Yankees and three/four years removed from his elbow surgery. And if you’re going to color the roses red for Lieber with strong run support, you have to give that same coloring job to Rasner or Karstens or (insert minor leaguer name here). Karstens (when healthy) has been just as effective has an 04 Lieber (and is over 10 years younger). As for Coste – while better than Nieves and Pratt, still is a mild upgrade over the two. I’d give back Farns for Salty (braves’ top catching prospect) straight up tho.
“The Mets would LOVE Farnsworth…problem is they have nothing we want.”
sure they do, just nothing they would give up for Farnsworth.
i’d gladly take F-Mart off their hands. or Milledge. or Humber.
but that ain’t happening.
Yeah I agree with everyone here. While im not a fransworth but Lieber was terrible last season and hes injured now anyway. Plus considering the shallow market for relievers I’m sure we could get more for him.
pete,
you definitely pose an interesting argument, and i agree that A) pavano won’t stay healthy B) igawa will probably lose his rotation spot at some point and C) nobody in the minors is ready to face major league hitting yet (despite the fact that hughes can give the team “everything clemens can”). i just think they can get more than a washed-up veteran arm and a backup catcher for farnsworth.
hey pete! good job creating that Igawa Vs Dice-K thread,
Good job creating a thread that every Boston fan can bump when Matsuzaka is 11-4 and Igawa is 5-9 with an ERA of 7.
gosh, we have no pitching. Our ace is Carl Pavano.
and please somebody tell me where all the minor league depth cashman is gloating about. WHERE IS IT? I knew we should have signed Zito.
I’ll wager right now that Rasner will be more effective in the AL than Lieber. A 5 in the nl is almost 6 in the al.
gloomy,
way to make me look like a brilliant optimist. pavano isn’t the “ace” because he’s starting opening day. it just worked out that way. it’s one game.
there’s plenty of depth in the system, all of the kids are one year away (though humberto sanchez is never going to pitch a game in pinstripes, mark my words).
I don’t see the logic of potentially weakening the pen because you are worried about the rotation. I agree that Pavs and Iggy may not make the full season, but to get insurance we should consider dealing some of our “AAAA” position players, and/or Rasner, to get another arm, not a $10 million reliever. Of course we could always go with Plan A, “Waiting for Godot,” I mean, Clemens.
Poor Kyle either lacks the confidence or brains to throw his g.d. fastball. If you are an 8th inning guy and you throw nearly 100 mph why are you messing with other pitches? (The back lock-up thing also bothered me all winter because it means a disc problem in the making). Vizcaino should allow Joe to give Farnie more rest and maybe make Kyle more effective.
Liebs? His PECOTA looks like he will be more of the same in 2007. Coming back to the AL after a few years I think we have to add maybe .75 to his already ugly ERA (4.93 in ’06). And wasn’t he down for 7 weeks in ’06 with a pulled groin? And doesn’t he need to try harder to stay in shape? And wouldn’t he be another weight gaining, injury magnet if he was going to be a long man out of the pen and working irregularly?
I just don’t see Lieber being so clearly superior in an “innings eating” mode over Karstens or Rasner that I would deal Farnie. But what do i know? I’m still up at 11:45 pm posting a reply to a Yankee blog.
I think if you set that up as a poll it would have been 100-0.
Once again, This team cannot win; guaranteed
This team has won nothing since 2001. I remember coming to the ball park after work many times in the late innings, could have been early August or May, didnt matter, the game would still going, the team was killing itself to get it done. Whether Tino hit a 11th inning homerun or someone made a big play, it was all about team, guys pulling together to win no matter what it takes. That spirit is dead.
Gone are the hungry role players, like Chad Curtis or Gerardi, the power pitchers like Clemens or Jeff Nelson. When Clemens couldn’t strike you out he threw at your head. Failing that, he threw your broken bat back at you. Piazza was frightened of Clemens, he said there was no one homw when he looked in his eyes. What passion!
Don’t expect that from the team this year. Maybe Andy can have one last go round.
The rest of the hurlers are junk ball throwers who are going to lead the team to a soft division win and a fall in the post season. They are abusing their true believer, Mariano Rivera.
Jason Giambi, ARod, Mussina and Pavano have no hearts, no spirit, no hunger and no souls. Giambi says he is an atheist.
They collect fat checks. the spirits of the monuments don’t call out to them, all they hear are their agents calling them for their next endorsement.
i loved the team in 2001, the New York last ditch wins during the WS were unforgettable. Even though they didnt win it that year, it was of course the end of ‘the dynasty’, they had heart and soul after 911 that inspired the City. The Lord was with them. they were one with the City, the fans, the stadium, and the spirits in the monuments.
Baseball teams win one of three ways, either brilliant professionalism, hungry passionate players or young talent. The Yanks used to have the first two during the dynasty years.
I am hoping these rookies can do something.
Sorry if i feel like cheering a team on to a definite playoff series loss is a waste of time. They cannot win, guaranteed. Not these guys.
the yankees rotation, without wang, is CONSIDERABLY weakend. whether you want to admit to that or not, it’s a fact. pettitte’s back remains a question mark, and somebody remind me how mussina’s spring has gone so far. that’s not even mentioning pavano and igawa. thank god this is happening in april and not august. the yankees may well whether this storm, but they’ll need to hit their way through april. period. if the big bats start the year cold, count on a lot of games winding up in the L column. three weeks in april isn’t going to make or break their season, but if wang’s out longer, or pettitte goes down for a period of time, this team is in HUGE trouble. to look at it any other way is to be delusional.
Gloomy I’ll just ask this once. Are you inbred and/or retarded?
Eh I don’t like it. Lieber is so-so and the Yankees don’t need any more so-so pitchers. Backup catcher? Eh. Unless Vizcaino could prove really useful, they are going to need Farnsworth so Proctor isn’t worn out.
i don’t feel real motivated to make that kinda move yet. i’m pretty comfortable with Rasner making 3 starts before Wang comes back. If they were playoff games, maybe. i like Liebs but if we get a veteran starter lets wait until the season develops and when we do it could be Proctor who’s cheaper, who has more value, who could along with other prospects land a current Cub ace instead of a former one. in witch case we would have more need of a Farnsworth than a backup catcher or number 5 starter
I think you’ve got half of a good trade, namely the half that includes Farnsworth. Between Britton, Bean, Cox, Whelan, Sanchez and Beam, I think Farnsworth could be moved without hurting the pen very much. That said, I do think he’s worth more than Lieber and Coste. I’d wait to see how the team shakes out for the first few months, and then look at who’s particularly desperate for relief help.
I don’t think I would go through with this trade either, but it is a reasonable thing to consider.
The Yankees are dying for any kind of competent backup catching, and this deal with give them decent insurance in case Posada gets injured. And Lieber would be better than Karstens or Rasner. Let’s face it, the future of the organization is Phil Hughes, not Karstens or Rasner. And this trade would not be holding Hughes back any further since the Yankees don’t plan on calling him up any time soon anyway.
But the reason I wouldn’t do it is because I think the Yankees rotation depth is fine as is. When Wang returns, you will have Moose, Pettitte, Wang, Igawa, and Pavano. Which means that Lieber would be (mostly wasted) in the bullpen as a long reliever awaiting a possible Pavano injury. I don’t think the slight extra insurance Lieber provides for further injury woes (that are not guaranteed to occur) offsets the loss of Farnsworth’s power arm. There will be days where Mariano has to rest, and Farnsworth’s presence will be even more appreciated.
don’t sleep on any of the Yankee prospects even the ones with out hype. you never know who’s gonna pop. I mean their where no takers when Cano was available. the yanks didn’t even know what they had. they offered him and Wang along with Javier Vasguez for Randy Johnson and the dbacks have the most hyped farm system in baseball and the didn’t think much of either of them
And one more thing. Whoever said that Jaret Wright was better than Lieber is nuts. Look at their career K:BB ratios. Lieber absolutely squashes Wright in that area. The Yankees made a big mistake after 2004, when they refused to pay Lieber the 7 million he wanted per year because he didn’t strike out enough guys. And to replace him they signed Jaret Wright for the same price tag, a guy who they thought could be a solid strikeout pitcher. What a bust. Wright couldn’t even strike out 90 batters last season. Even Lieber struck out more than that! Peter is dead on when he says that Lieber was a reliable arm for the Yanks in ’04. Does anyone even remember that he started Game 2 and Game 6 of the ALCS against the Red Sox? And he was the best Yankee starter in that series.
But the biggest difference between Wright and Lieber is the durability factor. Lieber could pitch into the 7th inning every game because he keeps his pitch count down, since he doesn’t walk people. Jaret Wright walks too many batters and throws way too many pitches, which is why he never made it to the 7th inning in any of his 25+ starts last year. That is really bad. He is the main reason Proctor and Villone were burned out.
Anyway, I just wanted to vent a bit about how stupid the Yanks were to let Lieber go in place of the horrible Jaret Wright after the 2004 season.
I love your dedication to the blog and how you provide inside info, but there is no way I would do this deal.
Leiber is on the wrong side of the hill, and has pretty much generated very little interest so far, and Coste is a career back up. We can’t afford to give up a good bullpen arm like Farnsworth, especially considering how Torre over-uses them anyway.
I’d much rather give Oheldorf (who is a sinker pitcher like Leiber and Wang, and had a good shot at Arizona’s No. 5 spot this spring had he not been traded) or Clippard rather than trade for Leiber.
A guy I would be interested in? Chad Billingsly, from the Dodgers. He’s going to start in the bullpen, but he has pretty good potential. With Lowe, Wolf, Schmidth, Penny, and I believe Kou, their rotation is full, so he might be expendable. Thats one guy who has top potential, who’s value as of now is low. They have top prospects Scott Elbert and Clayton Kershaw coming up in the system too.
But Leiber, No way.
No, you do’t take a key piece out of your bullpen for a scrub starter (what’s the farm for?) and a back-up catcher. Bad idea.
Agreed, Phil. It’s a terrible idea.
No way would I even consider this deal.
I would love to get Chris Coste. Most of the people here may not know this guy since you guys only care about the Yankees. Coste’s had a solid minor league career and played well once finally called to the majors. He is gonna be a solid catcher. But I think giving up Kyle Farnsworth is a little bit too high.
Gloomy-
You copy and pasted that crap from the other day. At least be original. Your hysteria is humorous.
I think most baseball fans don’t know who the hell Chris Coste is
wow…
I was just trying to correct some people here. Yes, there are a lot of names that you may have never heard of, but that doesn’t mean they are all bust.
Gloomy – seriously – take a creative writing class… you post the same thread over and over.. time for new material pal!
I don’t like that deal because our bullpen is our weakness. You dont trade away a guy from your weakness that will make said weakness even weaker.
Peter,
You say “Farnsworth … is unreliable because of his back and inability to maintain his command on consecutive days.” So why would the Phillies want him then?
Wow… This is the worst post I”ve ever seen Peter make ever.
It’s unbelivable how stupid your suggested trade is on so many levels.
“proven in NY” LOL
not sure about NYY young talent and want to get significantly older and more injury prone LOL
are 2 of the very worst thoughs you had when you wrote it. There are many other bad thoughts though.
I agree. Sorry Peter but this is a bad idea. Although I definately want Farnsworth to be traded. Hopefully we can send him and Pavano somewhere for some good prospects and maybe another pen arm.
I wouldn’t do this deal, but I wouldn’t mind seeing what they want for Coste. From what I hear, he isn’t going to make the team, but he’s probably better than Pratt/Nieves.
Coste is 34, Lieber 37. This doesn’t help the “younger, cheaper, deeper” plan that Cashman has.
Stick with the kids. There is no need to make a move now. We’ll see about later.
….the rest of the hurlers are junk ball throwers…HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA…. Proctor, Bruney and Farnsworth throw junk? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!
Lieber (oblique) and Coste (hamstring) both look like they will start the season on the DL. If you are going to make this deal, give me a couple of players who can help from the start, not a couple who the Yanks will have to wait on until they get off the DL.
No deal.
No, Peter,
Would that stock-piling young arms be the idea in the first place? Give them a chance to develop. There should be more Wang’s in the farm.
Sorry Pete but I’m with the posse on this one. You normally make a lot of sense but picking up a guy who is old, injured, and probably doesn’t have a lot more upside than Karstens/ Rasner makes no sense to me.
Farnsworth should be better after settling into NY and with Torre learning how best to use him. If anything happens to Mo, you’d have Viscaino closing and Proctor working the 8th? And what about when they need a day off? Bruney has pitched well and diserves a chance but don’t forget this is a guy Arizona kicked out the door only a year ago. Villone might be shot, Myers is a LOOGY and the other bullpen options are fairly young and not suitabe closer candidates. And if, god forbid Mo leaves next summer we will need a new closer but also some solid guys before him to help pick up the slack.
We need bullpen cover more than starter cover, esp if we want to make a run at Clemens. Lieber would get umped from the rotation and cause a big stink the team doesn’t need. In the mean time give the kids a chance, thats why we assembled them.
If Farnsworth does get hurt we can always ship him next year. At $5m he could be a risk worth taking for a team desperate for bullpen help.
No.
no only because of the oblique
I think Peter is jerking our chain. He wanted to see if we could all agree on one thing, and we can!
Interesting trade idea. I’ve always been a big fan of Lieber, and I thought it was a horrible mistake on Cashman’s end to lose Lieber for Jaret Wright. I thought Lieber had proven himself.
I have seen a little of Coste in person and I do like what hes got. I think its a good idea except if you plan on putting Liebs in the pen, that makes me wonder just because we havent seen him come out as a reliever..
very intruiging idea though..
Peter, have no fear… I agree… Farnsworth to me is not a championship player, and what good is a power arm in a bullpen if he’s limited to one game at a time, rather than being able to provide quality innings in back to back, or more, games in a row.
I would take Lieber back; I wasnt sure why he was let go in the first place. I know BC declined the option in the hopes to sign him back for less, but after Benson signed in NY, among other deals, Liber’s option then seemed like a great deal after all… so the Yankees took the chance on him, rehabbed him, and then let him go after one solid year.
14 wins from a back of the rotation guy is a perfect scenerio, and I dont like Nieves or Pratt.
One would think in an age in baseball where most bullpens stink, you could get more for Farnsworth, but for the years/money he is signed for, you cant. I’d take that deal if presented.
I was listening Jason Stark said on the espn radio with Mike and Mike in the morning. The Yankees will not make the playoffs this year and He picks the Redsox to win Al east. According to Gayson Stark , Yankees doesn’t have enough pitching and injuries in their pitching staff. Meanwhile He said Redsox have three legitimate aces on their pitching rotation.
J.b – that was Buster Olney.
Farnsworth has a track record of on/off seasons. And as people have pointed out, when he was given days off between appearances he was mostly lights out. Looking forward to see what he can bring when expectations on his role are lighter. (I agree that considering his inability to go consecutive days, he’s way overpaid.)
Our pen has got to be one of the strongest in the majors this year – even without an effective LOOGY, thanks to the great splits Vizcaino, Proctor and Farnsworth (I think) have against lefties. (All better BAA lefties than Myers.)
We have better rotation insurance in the minors than Lieber. If you think you can “sell high” on Farnsworth, fine, but not for an old guy who’d just end up blocking quality kids who play for the minimum.
No, It was Jayson Stark in 8.30 this morning. I swear to God
But why are people responding to someone who is copying and pasting the same stuff that is CLEARLY designed by its obvious irrational hysteria to get reactions from people? Sheesh. Its either really bad satire, or it really means what it says and is hardly deserving of its 15 minutes of blog attention, lol.
Buster Olney? Figures.
That trade is laughable.
You dont trade your 8th inning guy who was unhittable for much of last year for a 5th starter (actually 7th when everyone is healthy)
They dont need to weaken a strength to fix a short term issue. This is why you have guys like Rasner, Karstens, Clippard, Hughes, etc.
And Farnsworth contract is actually reasonable for a closer type.
If I had a nickel for everytime an ESPN made a right prediction in March I’d still have no dough on me.
Olney? The same guy who picked Bobby Crosby to be the MVP last yr?
Oh yea
Peter,
I have to go with the group on this one too.
Besides, who else do you want to have your back in a bench clearing brawl? Ask Gabe Kapler…
I would not do this trade for three reasons:
1. Coste is a terrible defender. He spent more time at 1B in AAA than catcher in recent years.
2. Lieber is an average pitcher. His projected numbers are no better than Karstens or Rasner.
3. Of the three players, Farnsworth is the only one who might be great. I’ll roll the dice with his 100 mph heater over a mediocre, injured starter and Crash Davis.
Somebody mentioned somewhere in here that we should maybe wait out and trade Proctor who is cheaper, and more valuable…
I understand you would get something good back in return for Proctor but I don’t think Proctor is a guy you want to trade. I like his gaming attitude. Also, he is humble and family-friendly, which are the EXACT personality types you want on your ballclub. He certainly has trade value but it will be difficult to get the kind of person that he is in return. I look at Proctor and have very fond memories of past yankee greats.
8th inning guy who was unhittable? wait, are we still talking about Kyle Farnsworth?
i’ve got no faith in him, and proctor can serve as the regular 8th inning guy. if the yankees can get a valuable piece for him, I’d move him in a second… and with the continued insecurity of the back of our rotation, seems like a back of the rotation guy in a package with a backup catcher is a pretty good deal to fill out the rest of this roster.
and since when are the yankees worried about bringing up players or having players on the roster who make league minimums? never; they are the yankees, not the royals.
“Farnsworth would be a loss but he is unreliable because of his . . . inability to maintain his command on consecutive days. ”
Just checking this based on 2006 numbers: When you compare his performances when pitching a second or third day in a row vs. his other appearances, Kyle’s WHIP and K/9 rates are virtually identical. He does have slightly more walks in those second and third days, such that his K/BB ratio goes from about 3:1 to about 2:1. But the difference in absolute numbers is really slight. For the entire season, if he had walked just 2 fewer batters in a second- or third-straight appearance, his numbers would be right in line with where they are in appearances where he didn’t pitch the day before. I don’t think 2 extra walks all year justifies the conclusion that Farnsworth has an “inability to maintain his command on consecutive days.”
His ERA, on the other hand, is significantly higher in games where he pitched the day before, but that can all be attributed to a single game in which he gave up 4 ER in .2 innings. I wouldn’t draw any firm conclusions based on one game.
J.b – “No, It was Jayson Stark in 8.30 this morning. I swear to God”
lol. Buster was on much earlier saying the exact same thing. Morons.
I dont get the people trying to weaken a strength, the bullpen, for what? A backup catcher??? A long man out of the pen??? The same pitcher that Cashman didnt blink an eye over letting go??
You need as many power arms as you can out in the pen. You dont trade those guys in March for backups.
Whats the next trade here? Cano for a right hand hitting 1b??
100mph with no movement is BP.
Rick, exactly!
Stark is on drugs.
The sox have three league average starters, one good/very good pitcher, and one potentially good/very good pitcher.
This mutliple ace stuff is nonsense, even moreso with the inclusion of Beckett.
i mentioned trading Proctor. not because i want to but because if a real need a arises or a potential difference maker like carlos zabrano or Smoltz becomes available that Cashman would make a trade for, their gonna want proctor and if we trade a way a depth now and proctor later throw in an injury and the Yankees bridge to Mo will be unsafe at any speed. still i hope all the Yankee answers come from within
No way, Farnsworth is a better pitcher and more valuable. Plus its an odd year so he’ll definitely be a solid pitcher for us in the bullpen.
I can’t read all of this, especially when you guys go back and forth with gloomy’s comments.
looking at the trade, it isn’t bad. but i guess i’m a little more optomistic about our current starters, and backup options. it may also look a little better if Coste was 27 instead of 34.
Nope, I would definitely not.
The Yankees do not need to go out and get a veteran pitcher because of a minor injury to Wang. And, with Lieber’s inability to get a lefty out, I don’t see him being much better than Rasner or Karstens. Plus, Lieber would just further block Hughes from making the rotation, and come mid-season, he will certainly be ready to do so.
So, what would Lieber’s role be? Long reliever? He has already expressed his displeasure over that role with the Phillies and it’s not going to help us win anymore games having him in that role over a Karstens or a Rasner.
As for the catcher, he’s a career minor leaguer that found some lightning in a bottle last year when he made the majors. I agree his offense will be better than Nieves or Pratt will give us, but how’s his defense (I’m asking, I don’t know).
Either way, he certainly is not worth giving up a setup man for. I expect Farnsworth to have a comeback year last year, and, if you look at it, he really wasn’t that bad last year. A strong bullpen is going to be key for this team.
Have to disagree. I have no problem dealing Farnsworth, esp. with Vizcaino and Bruney here now, but I would try to do better than Lieber.
Chris Coste is useless. If he were a young catcher with some potential, yes I might. Instead, he is a 34 year old scrub. No thanks.
“100mph with no movement is BP.”
Um no it isn’t. 75 with no movement is BP. You realize there are only a handful of people in the entire world who can hit 100 mph. You can know its coming and still not hit it. The key is location. If he throws it right down the middle, then its got a better chance of being hit.
Also he throws other pitches, like a late breaking slider, and he’s working in his splitter again. Those pitches combined with a 100 mph fastball makes him a very deadly pitcher.
Your comment couldn’t be any further from the truth.
Peter -
I think trading for Coste and Lieber is interesting, what about using a less expensive reliever such as Veras or Viciano and a low minor leaguer (not a prime prospect) for Lieber and Coste? Could that or would that make more sense?
Mike
“and please somebody tell me where all the minor league depth cashman is gloating about. WHERE IS IT? I knew we should have signed Zito.”
now i know that gloomy is just yanking our chains.
Zito? for real? 7 years $126M. really??
TurnTwo, Peter, the Leiber you are talking about is not the Leiber of ’04. He’s older, he’s been hurt and mediocre in the WEAK NL. I liked him and wished Cashman had played the market better, but seems like no-one expected it to blow up the way it did that year. But I’m not convinced it was a bad thing for us, given that Leiber in said weak NL I don’t think did very much better than a terrible Jaret Wright did here…… so I’m not so sure Leiber would have worked out a whole lot better, and most certainly don’t think he would now.
And I think he’s too old/injury prone to be a bullpen guy, a role I wouldn’t want him for anyway.
Further, why on earth would we trade a healthy player for 2 guys on the DL to use them as insurance? That’s like buying a flat tire to keep in your trunk…. isn’t it?
For $126M, we need Zito on this team like we need to bring Kevin Brown back. It amazes me how good Scott Boras is when everyone knows exactly what he’s going to do and they let him do it. It’s like the guy gets a blank check for his clients, warranted or not. I heard his next big splash is getting Bubba Crosby a $100M deal to be a 5th outfielder.
Henn for Coste, straight up.
Not that Henn has proven much, but isn’t his upside better than a 34 year old career back-up catcher? Admittedly, I don’t know anything about Coste other than what people on here have said… but he doesn’t sound like much. I’d rather see if Henn can deliver, but wouldn’t really be upset if that trade were made.
“Henn for Coste, straight up.”
I’m a villone guy and I wouldn’t even do that. Coste has zero trade value. Besides Philly already got one of our young lefties(even though you make that trade 100 out of 100 times)
Didn’t someone say Coste isn’t going to make the Phillies? Can we grab him off waivers if that’s the case? If so, why give up anything for him at all…..
StandingO’Neill
Great point. I can’t belive how “far from the truth” I was.
BTW is your last name Farnsworth?
Coste is 34 and has spent 1/2 year in the majors. His MiL numbers are good, but he is a lousey catcher. If the Phils are not interested in him, and the Yanks think he can help as a BUC, there are dozens of kids the Phils would probably take for a straight up trade. Why bring Farns into the equation? And Lieber? For 2007? Forgetaboutit!
However, Torre hates poor defensive BUCs. Thats why we haven’t chased Javy Lopez and a few other old guys with decent bats.
That’s where Nieves comes in, supposedly a good defensive catcher….
I would send Kyle Farns down to AAA and give Colter Bean a chance.
Come on. We have better options than Lieber, and Coste would be a marginal upgrade at best (and we’re talking about backup catcher). This would just be a pointless trade.
And oh by the way…Bernie Williams has “proven” he can play well in NY. And that’s over 14+ years, not just a fluky 2004. Why isn’t he on the team? He’s done, just like Lieber.
“StandingO’Neill
Great point. I can’t belive how “far from the truth� I was.
BTW is your last name Farnsworth?”
What? Is there something wrong wtih defending Farnsworth from a stupid statement?
Terrible idea Peter, but nice try.
How about the team solves their issues internally instead of constantly trading for old men.
Cashman needs to and will stick to his main plan, growing the farm and bringing in the youth. The season has not even started, so why push the panic button and force some unnecessary trade?