Updates on the rotation and Damon
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Apr 04, 2007 
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Just talked to my colleague Brian Heyman. Here is what he’s reporting:
The pitchers will all be moved back a day. So Pettitte on Thursday, Moose on Friday, Igawa on Saturday and Rasner on Sunday. Pavano won’t pitch until the team gets to Minnesota on Monday.
Johnny Damon was out of the lineup with a sore right calf. Robinson Cano was hitting leadoff and Melky Cabrera was in center.
“It felt like cramps the other day,” Damon said, “but this is definitely much worse than that.”
Now, before you panic, Damon tends to overplay injuries. This is a guy who played last season with a broken bone in his foot. Joe Torre sounded far more optimistic. This seems to be a day-to-day kind of thing.
Before anybody asks, they’re not bringing Bernie off his couch in Westchester. That ship not only has sailed, you can’t see it any more.
Thank God they didn’t trade Melky, huh?
“Melky is worthless out in center. This team is DOOMED, DOOMED I say!”
-Gloomy
Why does anyone think they would play Bernie over Melky, anyway? Bernie was only going to be a bench player this year if he did make the team. And if they need an extra outfielder, Kevin Thompson or Brett Gardner (who has great speed) makes more sense.
Why aren’t they skipping Rasner? They only brought him along because they were forced into using a fifth starter. Now that they don’t need one, why make Pavano wait a week to pitch again?
And only Torre would bat Cano leadoff. In most lineups, he’d he fifth or sixth, but here he’s forced to bat seventh/eighth. But leadoff? He couldn’t be less suited for it — he’s not fast, he doesn’t walk, and he’s the ultimate free swinger.
Torre prefers to change one spot in the lineup and leave everyone else as is. Be thankful Cairo is not the starting CF.
Thanks for the Damon update Pete.
Gloomy is a Sox fan.
Cano really wouldn’t work as a leadoff hitter, he never takes a pitch…
Rasner gets a start because if they don’t use him, that means that Pettite has to go on 3 days rest on Monday, Mussina on 3 days rest on Tuesday, and Igawa on 3 days rest on Wednesday.
That quote from Damon doesn’t make me feel too good.
Thanks for the Damon update.
Why wouldn’t Melky be hitting leadoff? That’s the simplest fix, and that’s what’s been done in the past. Interesting.
“Why wouldn’t Melky be hitting leadoff? That’s the simplest fix, and that’s what’s been done in the past. Interesting.”
I’ve been wondering that too – Melky was actually really good last season when he lead off: http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/1259/melkyke8.png
Not bad at all. A .405 OBP out of the leadoff spot with decent speed is tremendous.
Peter,
Thanks for the update. We depend on your insight. I guess if they thought it was anything but leftover soreness from craps they would have sent Johnny for tests.
yeah, the rainout doesn’t change anything. they still have 7 games in 7 days.
That was my first reaction too – Cano?? Melky did great in the leadoff slot last year and he’s playing center… so that’s a simple fix without affecting anyone else’s spot in the lineup AND Melky seems to be a better candidate to leadoff than Robbie anyway. Weird move, Joe.
Peter, can you do me a favor and ask Torre how he can be stupid enough to actually think that Cano would be best in the leadoff position? He doesn’t take pitches, he rarely walks, and he doesn’t steal bases.
I say Jeter is the best leadoff hitter on the team in Damon’s absence. In fact, I say Jeter is the best leadoff hitter on the team, period. Not only does he get on base, but he is easily the best base stealer on the team (34 steals on 39 attempts last year).
Pete,
Thought you might like to read this:
http://www.livescience.com/oth....._math.html
i don’t really care where any yankee hits in the lineup. they can all hit, drive in runs and get on base. people make such a big thing about it. cano the ultimate free swinger? just hoping that was only meant in regards to the yankees and not all of baseball.
im worried about damon, the report from rotoworld says he was barely able to walk today
I agree, Jeremy. I like Jeter better in the 2 hole because he’s more productive there, but in terms of who we have on the team as a leadoff, he is as good or better than Damon (and both of their numbers in ’05 show as much).
let’s see, i mentioned something about damon inevitably missing time with injuries and caught hell from…who was it? oh yeah, everyone.
good call, guys.
now if they hit Giambi leadoff then i’d complain.
April 4th, 2007 at 1:15 pm
I say Jeter is the best leadoff hitter on the team in Damon’s absence. In fact, I say Jeter is the best leadoff hitter on the team, period. Not only does he get on base, but he is easily the best base stealer on the team (34 steals on 39 attempts last year).
–
Abreu has a better OBP and is at least as good of a baserunner as Jeter if not better. Abreu is faster, too.
“just hoping that was only meant in regards to the yankees and not all of baseball.”
why not, it’s more or less true. cano was 157 out of 160 players in pitches per plate appearance.
interestingly enough, the only 3 players below him are Nomar, Vlad, and Jay Payton.
well its a good thing Cashman gave us this great bench and all this depth to work with in case of injury.. ROLLS EYES!!!!!
now we have no pitching and our dynamic offense just took a huge hit.
Thanks Cashman!
Why couldn’t we just sign Carlos Beltran we we had the opportunity to lock up the next bernie williams for the next 10 years?
Wait, Cano leading off? I read the article, but that part didn’t register in my brain because it makes no sense.
Cano had a .365 OBP last year and only 5 steals. Jeter had a .417 OBP last year and has a career .390 OBP batting first. Add Jeter’s 35 SBs and terrific success ratio and there is no justification for using Cano in this spot. I presume the idea was to have Jeter bat second – is his spot as #2 hitter really set in stone like that?
And yes, I know that batting order makes little difference on a team’s offensive production. But still, why?
“let’s see, i mentioned something about damon inevitably missing time with injuries and caught hell from…who was it? oh yeah, everyone.
good call, guys.”
no, you caught hell b/c you said it would be an inevitable DL stint. and Damon has never been on the DL.
so you were called on your BS.
“interestingly enough, the only 3 players below him are Nomar, Vlad, and Jay Payton.”
…well then that makes Jay Payton the ultimate free swinger then, i guess.
TwentySeven,
Agreed, Abreu has what it takes to be a top leadoff guy, even if he doesn’t fall into the “true leadoff hitter” mold for whatever reason.
If I wrote the Yankee lineup, Damon would be in the bottom third.
Can you say, I told you so?
I’ve been saying all spring that Damon is way too big and was going to have problems this year. For a guy who realies heavily on his legs, getting bulked up in incredibly stupid. Just as ARod did last season, Johnny has lost flexibility and it is already costing him.
The guy wants to look good for his wife and use his new gym, which is fine. But I don’t understand why guys continually make these type of mistakes. Weight lifting is not the best method for baseball training. Sure, some weight lifting can be helpful, but overall it’s just plain stupid.
Johnny is going to have a down year, and it’s going to have been his own fault. And before anyone says it’s only been one game and this might only be a small injury, know that I’ve been saying this all spring since he reported to camp.
even if Cano doens’t see a lot of pitches, it’s not like he’s striking out all the damn time. you do remember he hit .342 last year right? i’m not trying to argue that he’s a good leadoff hitter, just trying to make the point that there’s no reason to get all upset out it. if he struck out 140 times and hit .265, then fine.
Just in case anyone was interested Ron Villone signed a contract with the yanks and will report to scranton
I think Joe knows what he is doing, if he chooses to bat someone 1st or 9th there is probably some logic to it and he probably has a reason. I don’t think he is picking names out of a hat (which he probably could do with this lineup) Cano is no more of a free swinger than Sori who they batted first for a couple years and is now the highest paid leadoff hitter. I don’t think u neccesarily know what your talking about and how many great leadoff hitters have the best OBP on there teams??
Who cares if the leadoff man strikes out? His job is not to drive in runs. Cano is probably the dumbest choice for leadoff that Torre could have used, except for Mientkiewicz.
batting order doesn’t really matter anyway.
Could it be that Torre is batting Cano lead off to help him learn how to be more patient at the plate? If there is anything lacking with Cano offensively its that. Batting leadoff forces him to be more selective, and battle against his free swinging tendencies. I don’t think that Torre’s stupid, as someone suggested, for doing this. I think it would be good for Cano’s development.
melky will play center and bat lead off just as he did last year.. I dunno why you people are saying Cano and Abreu..get it together people.
hmmmmm,
well, damon appears headed to the DL now. this one was reeeaaal tough to call. the guy showed up to camp out of shape and he plays almost every year banged up anyway. a real brainbuster.
gloomy,
in case you missed it, cano was slated to lead off today. that’s why there’s the discussion. torre’s an idiot.
Maybe we should panic when we actually see tomorrow’s lineup….?
cano batting lead off? torre is an awful manager.. AWFUL.
good job weakning an already terrible bottom of the order, Torre.
Wow, I really can’t understand why Torre’s getting slammed so much. I have a hint for you people, Joe Torre knows more about baseball than all of you. I know people like to get on their high horse and pretend that they’re baseball guru’s, but the truth of the matter is that Torre is the one managing the team because he knows the game better than all of us. Torre has 4 world series championship rings, how many do you guys have? I really can’t understand how someone whose played the game and managed so long as Torre has can be called an idiot by you people. I could understand if he was batting Cano leadoff everyday that people would question his decision, but its one game.
K FINK, Josh and Mike:
I’m also worried about Damon. He had Sunday off, then played 4 inning Monday and gets “cramps” in his sexy calves? Now he says it feels worse? Don’t forget, the Yankees ALWAYS give out disinformation on injuries (e.g. the first announcement on Wang was that he only had a liitle cramp, don’t worry. Maybe Bernie is sticking needles into his Damon voodoo doll.
I agree with everyone criticizing Cano’s OBA. But one thing to consider: he’s such a damn good hitter that when he swings he almost always puts the ball in play.
which contributes to his low walk total.
If Damon is injured I am not giving him a free pass. He came into camp heavy and out of shape. I’d like to see more of a committment towards the Yankees.
Fernando Alejandro –
What you said could be true. But, I just wonder, isn’t that the kind of thing you might do in spring training? Isn’t that what spring games are for? Especially with a veteran team, shouldn’t ST give you the opportunity to try out different batting orders and things like that?
Perhaps it is something that Cano is working on, taking more pitches, and Torre wants to see him at work. But this is a real game.
Anyway, who is hitting in the lead-off spot in the first inning only matters once. It’s the overall flow of the lineup that is more important. Maybe the idea was to give Phelps or Mientkiewicz something better to hit; or Cano something better to hit, since he’d be up before Jeter.
If Damon ends up on the DL, I doubt Cano hits leadoff for a lengthy period of time.
Damon has had calf problems before. This is not something new. Also, I hadn’t heard before this that he showed up to camp out of shape. Did I miss something? (I am seriously asking this question, not being sarcastic.)
Is Brian Heyman related to Jon??
The best leadoff hitter on the team is Jeter, but when Damon’s healthy, he should be used there. If Damon is out for any amount of time, I think we’ll see DJ leading off with either Cano or Melky in the 2 hole.
But as it’s been said before, over the course of a season, batting order is unimportant. However, over the course of individual games, it clearly is.
“Torre has 4 world series championship rings, how many do you guys have?”
i have 5. i’m really David Cone.
the mets are showing us right now why they are such a superior team to the Yankees. firstly, they are a great defensive team.. they have made about 6 or 7 web gems already.. the Yankees meanwhile make 4 errors opening day.
the pitching.. mets actually have better pitching than the yankees… they just have a bunch of underrated pitchers no one ever talks about, but they just do their job…
speed… the mets have stolen already like 5 or 6 bases.. the yankees have stolen 1… jose reyes is an automatic double when he reaches base, while johnny damon is an automatic leg cramp.
BOLD DEcISionS- Mets bring Joe Smith with them to the majors… while the Yanks leave the untouchable in spring training Colter Beam… down there again.
Justin, Fernando, well said. Though, unfortunately, most people on here won’t listen and will worry and throw away the season already anyway….
Cano’s not a leadoff hitter, if he was going to be for one day, who cares. If he gets slotted there for 2 months, then we can see how it goes and criticize if appropriate. I don’t know why he’d be there even for a day, but in game 2 of the year, maybe Torre wanted to try something out, maybe it had something to do with Cano more than the one game as Fernando suggested, and maybe Torre knows he can afford to do so considering how good the lineup is and how much everyone in it at least says they don’t care where they hit.
David, great to hear from you. Are you and Bernie going to campaign together to get back on the team?
I actually love both of those guys, but they both kinda did the same thing after their time was up. I still can’t believe Cone pitched for the Red Sux.
well, as long as you are mentioning stolen bases and “BOLD DEcISionS” instead of something important, like i don’t know, hitting, your logic is flawless.
i have no idea why i am arguing with a fake poster.
Torre’s obviously not an idiot, but he does make bad decisions from time to time, like all managers. And since this is the comments section of a blog, use of words like “idiot” should probably be ignored out of hand.
Winning 1, 4, or 10 WS does not immunize a manager from criticism for manifestly bad decisions.
The bottom line is that it’s more fun to say “I think Cano is a poor choice for leadoff, here’s why, and here is a player who would be a better choice” than to say “Torre knows best.”
ok I’m sure you all are waiting for my two cents. Cano is a good hitter and I don’t mind him hitting first at all. How often does Damon walk anyway? Torre is rewarding Cano as the more accomplished player than Melky. Also as far as the pitching goes, Pavano start after his next one will be April 14th so he could have started him either on the 8th or 9th. Rasner will be skipped the spot after that in the rotation and hopefully by the 21st Wang will be back.
“well, damon appears headed to the DL now. this one was reeeaaal tough to call. the guy showed up to camp out of shape and he plays almost every year banged up anyway. a real brainbuster.”
fair enough, i wasn’t objecting to the criticism that he showed up out of shape and is now paying the price.
i was merely objecting to the implication that Damon is often on the DL, like he’s Carl Pavano or something. he’s been extremely durable, and like you said, played through a lot of pain last year (and played well) because the team needed him.
that’s all i was saying.
re: Cano. i’m not the biggest Torre fan in the world, but i also don’t see the big deal about batting him leadoff for a couple of games. it’s just not a big deal. if he leaves him there all season, and cano continues to never walk, i would be irritated. but a few games in april is certainly not worth calling torre an idiot for.
not for nothing but coco crisp hurt his calf on opening day last year and missed 3 months.
“if they thought it was anything but leftover soreness from craps”
Todd – that was the best unintentional typo I have seen in a long time. I know it was a mistake, but it made my day regardless. LOL
Joe Morgan just can not shut up about Gary Sheffield. Burnett knocked out of the bottom of the 3rd. Down 3-0, bases loaded, nobody out.
Isn’t this a little too early in the season for doom and gloom(y), second guessing, and panic? lol. Keep up the banter, guys. It’s far more interesting than the Tigers-Blue Jays game.
does anyone know what is going to happen to the current yankee stadium after the new one is built? have they announced anything about that? thanks
gloomy,
the mets are a better team because they’ve turned in a few “web gems”? seriously?
el duque is 562 years old.
glavine is 85.
their three young pitchers are all completely untested.
their bullpen is alright, but not unhittable.
their offense is very good.
they’ve got many, many more problems than the yankees.
as for damon, let’s look at this objectively:
- showed up to camp with a gut
- left for “personal reasons”
- came back with a gut
- bulked up (not exactly ideal for a center fielder who relies on his legs)
- got many, many, MANY days off during spring training
- played half a game monday and called it good
- now says he can’t walk
the guy was busy with wrestling or his home gym or ANYTHING but basebally this offseason and it’s already showing. he may be a great guy, a character, and a hell of a teammate, but he’s not ready to play this year.
“not for nothing but coco crisp hurt his calf on opening day last year and missed 3 months.”
for a Sox fan, you sure have no idea what you are talking about:
“Coco Crisp returned to the Boston Red Sox lineup Sunday after missing 42 games with a broken finger.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=2461250
coco crisp also gets soggy with milk.
you make a good point (can’t believe I just said that to an obvious Mets’ fan), but the reality is you’re talking about a different player on a different team and while both teams may or may not be downplaying the injury, we don’t know yet what THIS injury really is, or if it’s even an injury at all.
Gloomy Said:
“not for nothing but coco crisp hurt his calf on opening day last year and missed 3 months.”
You might want to get your facts straight before you post. Crisp missed 3 months because he broke his finger, not strained his calf.
gloomy,
coco crisp broke his hand last year and then got an infection. he didn’t miss three months from “hurting his calf.” not for nothing, but maybe do a bit of research.
hmmmm, I’m thinking he’s more of a Mets fan, but I guess in the end, they’re really the same thing………..
the fact that I didn’t know how long Crisp was out or what kind of injury he had PROVES I’m not a Sox fan. I’m a dissapointed, disgruntled Yankees fan… nothing more!
OR:
gloomy = David Wells? Still a little bitter fatboy?
Coco Crisp injured his hand.
Chris, do you know how much seeing the Mets this good kills me? I root for them to fail everyday…
proves nothing gloomy, most sox fans don’t know anything about the sox, they just know when it’s time to cry.
the fact that you didn’t know how or what crisp hurt, but were willing to post that he’d hurt his calf and missed three months proves one thing and one thing only: you’re an idiot.
And his finger, and his shoulder.
Wolf,
Yes, unintentional. Very embarrassing. At least I made you laugh.
the Mets could win 150 games and they’d still suck, they’re the Mets. I feel no need for realistic opinions about them. Credit where it’s due, blah blah blah… they’re the Mets, they suck. Don’t root for them to fail, that’s Mets/Sox fan mentality. That’s what they do because their teams suck and they root AGAINST the Yankees because rooting FOR their team is fruitless.
I almost got a little mad when I saw the article about OUR Duque pitching well over there. Then I remembered he couldn’t pitch during the playoffs last year and likely won’t this year either. Man I miss the Duque we used to have.
this isn’t about the red sox, the red sox have their own problems… they have no pitching outside of schilling and truth be told their lineup is awful outside of the 2 guys in the middle… I also think their bullpen is the worst in the major leagues, not 1 guy I could count on middle relief.
This is about the Yankees, the same Yankees who have been dominated in the playoffs by inferior teams.
1.The Yankees stole 3 bases opening day, not one.
2. The mets have played two games, not one so comparing head to head stats proves just what a moronic Red Sox fan you actually are.
3. The mets have underrated pitchers? Is it glavine who had one good year with them so far, an injured pedro, a guy in Maine that lasts 6 innings or less, Pelfrey who is yet to make a start in April, El Duque who is consistantly injured every year for the past 3-4 years or one of their former bullpen guys just trying to complete a makeshift rotation? Where exactly does this analysis come from?
4. The Yankees made three errors opening day, not four.
5. The three errors lead to exactly 1 unearned run.
6. both teams are yet to lose
7. The Yankees offense, even given the change of leagues, is superior to that of the Mets.
8. If the Mets pitching were in the AL east, it would rival the D rays.
9. Joe Smith is terrible and welcoming him to the majors is a result of Burgos not panning out in a terrible decision for Minaya.
10. Where do you put Bean in the bullpen? The Yankees just pitched 5.1 shutout innings with the pen so far. Bean is not better than anybody in that pen right now, and as stands, the Yankees have the better bullpen this year (mets lost hernandez and oliver from the pen), including closer.
11. Leadoff hitters do not account for an entire lineup. Would you like to compare hitters 2-9 before you try to sell the Mets as having the better lineup?
12. Which Mets pitcher is so underrated they aren’t getting press?
Cano batting leadoff is not brilliant but it’s not going to make the difference against the D rays either. The guy batted .342 and while he doesn’t take pitches, he would also not be taking them in the 8th spot either. What would you prefer, a .342 leadoff hitter when the lineup turns around (after the first at bat, the leadoff hitters job is now usually continuing an inning, not starting it) and after Douggy M, or would you prefer Melky?
Use your heads, doug M is gonna benefit from Cano turning the order around temporarily because he will get fastballs, Cano is being used to protect the 9 hitter, in that sense it is smart. In the sense of working pitches for the first at bat of the game, it is not.
Why don’t we wait for further Damon news before we turn a cramp into a hamstring tear?
outside of Schilling? What do they really have in Schilling? He’s done…….. and I’m not basing that on 1 game, I’m basing that on the fact that he’s a fat, out of shape, over the hill, jackass. You get old and scrap the workout routine that kept you young and you’re just old. He can join the David Wells fat camp and criticize guys like Pettitte and Clemens for working out, then fail to pitch in the World Series because of a sore back – FAT BASTARD (yes, I’m still bitter about that and about Wells backing out of a deal then crying the next year that Cashman wouldn’t bring him back).
The Red Sox have a very formidible starting rotation, past that they have an inferior lineup and much inferior bullpen. Both the Yankees and the Sox are superior to the Mets, however.
everyone’s still bitter about david wells, chris. i wish him ill.
schilling’s not done, but he’s out of shape, for sure. he had a terrible first outing, and he’s not going to win his self-projected 20+ games this year, but he’ll be about the same as last year.
matsuzaka’s going to be a very good pitcher. beckett may or may not be.
Chris NY — I thought I was the only one who remembered about Wells’ not being able to pitch in the playoffs because he can’t/doesn’t keep himself in shape. I thought it was irresponsible to say the least, and a de facto breach of contract (the contract being, we will pay you to pitch, you will do all you can to do that for us). I really don’t like it when I hear good things about Wells, because I blame that series loss on him, squarely.
I think they have better than Schilling (Matzusaka worries me a little, but he’s only one guy), but they all have their question marks as well.
I don’t think I’d say “very formidible,” though.
Just a quick reminder my fellow Yankee Fans…
REDSOX SUCK!!!
Schilling’s numbers have started to decline if u look closely. Realistically he can grasp 15 wins and that’s about it. He is their 3 starter. Much like Mike Mussina.
damon is “not going for tests yet, but not ruling out the DL.”
huh. shocker.
I don’t buy much stock in their 5 man whether it be wakefield or Lester, at least not yet. Matsuzaka should win 15-17, and Beckett in all likelihood will lower his ERA and prob end up winning around the same amount of games. Realistically the Sox have three guys capable of winning 15 games, and so do the Yankees. I don’t think their rotation is necessarily better, I just think right now it has a higher ceiling…..Until Hughes and/or Clemens comes.
Doreen:
When Damon showed up in camp looking heavier, he told reporters he had bulked up to look sexy for his wife. Cute, but not a great explanation.
Trade Melky. He has no role on this team. Matsui, Damon and Abreu are ironmen.
A few years ago, if I had ever seen wells out in a bar, I’d have bought him a beer. Now, I’d knock that fat bastard out, dirtbag. I too blame that WS loss on him, we were pitching damn well before that (even though Clemens wasn’t great, but he kept us in the game). Mussina and Pettite were LIGHTS OUT and beat Beckett.
“Both the Yankees and the Sox are superior to the Mets, however.”
Means very little when the Mets are playing scrap teams in the NL.
It does if the Mets beat the “scrap” in the NL that happened to have won the World Series over the “scrap” that beat the Yankees, in the event we play them come October…Or worst, if the Sox by some miracle make it to the fall classic. Though I doubt the Mets accomplish that with a weaker team than they had last year.
Ummm, i don’t really see what the big deal is with the leadoff spot. I guarantee you that Joe’s thinking is that by moving Robbie to the leadoff spot you gurantee a good hitter an extra at-bat (on average) a game. After the first inning the lineup matters little (if it even matters at all). Getting people in a good routine is more important this time of year than building a ‘traditional’ lineup.
As for Damnon, no MRI no worries. Dude just got some cramps and is sore the day after. It’s not as though he is a yound kid or anything. If they DL him, then ‘blog all-star’ kevin thompson should get some run (that’ll make ya happy).
Thanks, Zander. I didn’t remember hearing that.
Who beat who doesn’t matter. The Mets can sweep the Cards all year long and that doesn’t mean they would have beaten Detroit LAST year. The whole they beat you and we beat them, so we can beat you, argument is useless. Especially when we’re talking about last year, not this year.
no MRI … YET.
No, the whole “don’t rule out a team from beating you after inferior teams have been winning for the past 8 years” is a valid one. If you cannot respect 29 other major league teams, you must have just woken up from a coma retroactive to 2000.
“blog all-star,” that’s great. Is that anything like a “gym-class all-star?”
Thompson did do well in a short stint in the majors last year though. Mostly I think people on here like his speed and glove. I don’t think anyone’s saying he’s the next Willie Mays or anything, just that he’d be a good 5th OF/pinch runner. Not that I’m saying we should do that to such a young player who MIGHT someday be more than that.
Though I don’t know where the argument is stemming from, I just said the Yankees were better than both the Sox and the Mets. Yes, it is unimportant if the Mets are better than the Yankees, minus the six games we play against them, until the prospect of October. It never hurts to wonder.
Um take a look at mike’s numbers than get back to me. don’t say that curts and mikes are the same.
Also lets not put too much stock into that joke of a team the mets are facing right now. the cards look terrible.
Um take a look at mike’s numbers than get back to me. don’t say that curts and mikes are the same.
Also lets not put too much stock into that joke of a team the mets are facing right now. the cards look terrible.
Dint, that’s a different argument then. I don’t disagree with that. They’re still professionals and we did lose to the D-backs and Marlins, both inferior teams. I think that’s a more valid point than playing 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon going through the Mets and Cards and Tigers, etc… to say the Mets can beat us.
Yes, any team can win if they can get into the playoffs and get hot at the right time. That’s a much different statement than saying the Mets could beat us because they beat the Cards, who beat the Tigers, who beat the Yankees….. that’s all I’m really saying.
Are you kidding me? Ok, let’s look:
Mussina: 15-7 3.51 ERA 197.1 IP 184 hits. 172 K 35 BB
Schilling: 15-7 3.97 ERA 204 IP 220 hits. 183 K. 28 BB.
Yeah, good call jennifer, the identical 15-7 records, similar ERA’s, similar innings, similar BB and similar K’s are waaaaay off.
I would rather have him go on the DL and get it fixed if its a big problem then try to play through it this early in the year. Him playing injured is about as good as throwing “No arm, no speed” Williams out there. Melky is a fine replacement for 15 days if need be. Hopefully its just a little tightness and he’ll be in the lineup for the weekend.
I only used the Tigers as an example to say that anybody can beat anybody. The Tigers dominated us and we felt they were inferior. The Tigers then lost to the Cards who they thought were inferior. That was my point, exactly what you agree with, anybody can beat anybody in October.
Mussina: 15-7 3.51 ERA 197.1 IP 184 hits. 172 K 35 BB
Schilling: 15-7 3.97 ERA 204 IP 220 hits. 183 K. 28 BB.
okay almost 1/2 run less, almost the same ip, almost 40 less hits. mike is better plan and simple.
6 degrees of Kevin Bacon! Love it:)
someone give me the cliff’s notes version of today’s posts
thank you
40 hits, but 33 base runners, errors aside.
base runners don’t matter because it ties into ERA (see: wang)
ERA is nearly half a run, which is one run every 18 IP, which is essentially 10-11 Runs per SEASON. Do you need a carbon copy to compare players? And it all amounted to the same record anyway, plus Schilling pitched slightly more innings and struck out slightly more batters, these guys are as similar as they come.
“someone give me the cliff’s notes version of today’s posts”
gloomy: the Mets are better than the yankees b/c they promoted Joe Smith, the yankees will go 1-161
kasey: damon is out of shape
Peter: A-Rod stole my milk money
Chris NY:
I kinda like Thompson myself, but here’s the problem:
He’s not young. He turns 28 during this season, and historically whenever it has taken a minor leaguer that long to make the majors, he doesn’t amount to much. Pitchers occasionally, but not position players. And this is not my personal opinion, it has been documented by Bill James, Baseball Prospectus and others. It surprise me to learn that MLB players have their peak years, on average, from 27-29. I would have guessed 29-31.
great summary. particularly the milk money (no offense Peter, but it was funny).
wow, I didn’t realize he was that old, Zander. I was thinking a couple years younger than that. Just saw Kevin Reese is even older (29). In that case, I think KT would make a good 5th OF large in part because of his speed off the bench and his glove when/if needed. I’d promote him over Gardner for the reason I was originally against Thompson being a 5th OF, Gardner IS too young to pin down to that type of role (and has a bigger upside, if I’m not mistaken..?).
The GM was asked if an injury to Damon might open up a spot for former outfielder Bernie Williams on the major league roster. Cashman had a one-word answer: “No.”
thats funny. i can just imagine brian’s tone and facial expression. priceless.
I assume the person asking that question was some sort of Journalist… how ridiculous is it that he’s still being asked that question after he said no to it no less than 57 times when Abreu was hurt in Spring Training and he said Thompson, Reese, or someone else would be that option long before Bernie would be.
Cashman being as smooth and professional as he is, I’m sure his tone and facial expression were not much more than mildly showing he’s annoyed, if at all. But I’m sure inside he wanted an eye-roll, an “are you kidding”, a b*tch slap, or something of that nature to come out.
I picture Will Smith in “Hitch” when he slapped Kevin James after using his own dance moves and said “Stop that!”
thats what i meant to say, chris.
Is it just me, or does Cashman already sound a little weary???
If I were the Yankee GM, I’d be a little weary too.
Chris NY:
Gardner is rated the tenth best prospect in the Yankee organization by Baseball America. They also say he is their #1 minor leaguer in strike zone discipline and baserunning speed. I think he’ll spend this whole season at AA, but I still am waiting to see which players have been sent to AAA, AA, high A, etc.
it is ridiculous to ask Cashman if Bernie is an option to fill an immediate need when he hasn’t had ST.
Not only because he missed spring training but also because we already have another outfielder. Why is melky on the team if we could just use bernie to fill in if and when the need arises?
I tried to read all the posts but got tired and skipped to the end. So, what’s good everyone?
and then there’s those wet noodles he had stapled to his shoulders after he lost his arms in ‘Nam…….
“someone give me the cliff’s notes version of today’s posts�
and one more:
Hmmm: everyone i disagree with is an idiot.
Using Cano at lead off retains the lefty/righty balance in the lineup when facing a righty starter with the Eye Chart at first base. Putting Melky in the bottom third of the order keeps a right(switch) handed bat down there while Phelps in on the bench.
or … Hmmm disagrees only with idiots
very good point and quite probably the reason Torre did it, Veg..
if Johnny’s going to be all Hulked-up… why not switch him and Abreu? If Bobby’s faster, switch ‘em and see what happens. (The only reason why I say that is to keep ‘em left/right/left/right, at least for the first five spots.)
Is there any truth to the “Abreu is faster than Jeter” statement? Seems hard to believe but I know Abreu is faster than he looks.
I’ll tell you what’s good. Choco Tacos.
Fernando Alejandro, you are my hero. Some of these people are idiots. I can’t stand the constant griping about Torre. He’s my favorite Yankee manager ever and some Yankee fans are some of the most ungrateful people ever.
I have no problem with Cano leading off.Im suprised his OBP is .365 figured it was lower but he is a better hitter then Melky and you want your better hitters getting up more often. Thompson comes up for a week Henn goes down and buisness as usual.
“ERA is nearly half a run, which is one run every 18 IP, which is essentially 10-11 Runs per SEASON. Do you need a carbon copy to compare players? And it all amounted to the same record anyway”
Please do not tell me you just used won-loss as a way to measure pitchers. I can’t believe people are still doing this. Have you ever heard of a stat called WHIP? Mussina’s was 1.11 (3rd in the AL, behind only Johan and Roy Halladay). Schilling’s was a glorious 1.22.
On a totally different note… I love how they couldn’t mess with Moose’s schedule for Opening Day but his schedule gets messed with anyway. That’s what I call karma.
“I love how they couldn’t mess with Moose’s schedule for Opening Day but his schedule gets messed with anyway. That’s what I call karma.”
i agree it’s a little ironic, but there is a difference between moving someone UP and pushing someone BACK.
Torre’s reason for batting Cano first and Melky 9th:
Cano, who batted eighth in the opener, was slotted first because “right now he’s swinging the bat better than Melky, all spring,” Torre said. “We felt with Melky hitting ninth, it takes one at-bat away from him and gives it to Robby. It’s getting him the extra at-bat.”
Pretty good logic to me.
Oh yeah, that’s logical don’t compare wins and losses when showing the value of a pitcher to their team. You’re absolutely right, no reason to include wins and losses in a mussina-schilling argument over if they are both the same value to their team.
Oh, so whip is so much better. OK, 1.22 compared to 1.11, which btw includes errors, an unfair part of a comparison. That is 1 base runner every 9 innings approxamately, or in their case about every 1.5 starts. And, as we established of that extra base runner, 1 scores every 3 or so starts. Are you guys freaken kidding me? You’re saying Mussina is dominant over Schilling because one base runner is allowed more per game by Schilling and one scores every 18 innings more than Mussina? Seriously, get over it, they are comparable, doesn’t mean Schilling is better, doesn’t mean Boston is better, or anything else, they are just easily comparable with extremely similar numbers.
So you’re going to tell me that Randy Johnson was more valuable to the Yankees last year than Mussina because he had 17 wins as opposed to Moose’s 15? Let’s just ignore that sterling 5.00 ERA.
Won-Loss record does not account for games that were won solely on offense. It also does not account for games that the pitcher SHOULD have won, but the bullpen blew it.
If you insist on looking at record, at least look at the team’s record in games the pitcher started, as opposed to the pitcher’s record.