Joe Morgan figures it out
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- April
- 8
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So I’m watching the ESPN game and Jon Miller mentions the Yankees haven’t been getting good pitching.
“Surprise, surprise,” Joe Morgan says. “That was the problem they had last year.”
Really? The Yankees were tied for sixth in the AL in ERA last season at 4.41. They were fifth in quality starts and fourth in batting average against and OPS against. Chien-Ming Wang was second in the Cy Young voting and Mariano Rivera had a 0.96 WHIP
So pitching was “the problem” last year? Oh, and they also won 97 games.
These guys have it right.
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on Sunday, April 8th, 2007 at 8:49 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
The Yanks have more minor league talent then they have in years. They will be fine.. Wang will be back, give Karstens a few tries and if he does not produce try the next guy, CLippard, Ohlendorf, or in June Hughes…………
Firejormorgan.com wasn’t created for no reason he is pretty bad at TV ironically he is great when doing radio interviews its strange. We all know Morgan has hated the Yankees ever since the late ninties because GASP some people dare bring them up in the same sentence as the big red machine. Also it has been very clear that since ST the Yankees have been ESPN”s little Whipping boy they absolutly hate the pitching staff some picking them 3rd in the divison. Due to the bad start it is hard to fight them off. Maybe I’m drinking the koolaid but I still think Wang Pettitte Moose is as good a top 3 as any.
Pete – the Red Sox have two big TV networks – NESN and ESPN – I don’t pay attention to ESPN analysts and have gradually lost respect for all but Gammons and Tim K. over the years.
regardless of whether or not it was “the problem” last year, it’s a BIG problem this year. the starting pitching needs to get better now. they can’t afford to wait three weeks until everyone “warms up.” this is just awful. not much fun to watch.
“Pete – the Red Sox have two big TV networks – NESN and ESPN – I don’t pay attention to ESPN analysts and have gradually lost respect for all but Gammons and Tim K. over the years.”
Same with me I never understood whey Gammons gets a bad rap with our fans, I know he use to cover the Sox but Gammons and kurkjian seem pretty insightful and fair to me.
When Gammons came back from his illness last season, he walked in the Yankee clubhouse and Torre and Mattingly gave him bear hugs.
Peter is a very fair person and he has tremendous respect for the Yankees. I know don’t know him as well as I wish I did but I do know him and he’s fair.
Fire Joe Morgan is one of my favorite baseball-related sites. Those guys are magnificent.
Great links there Pete. FJM is a must-read site.
FJM picks apart egregious examples of bad sportswriting, commentating, and analysis everywhere, but they have a special love for Morgan because his particular brand of analysis is just so mind-bogglingly terrible. The comment you caught him on is pure Morgan – unsupported by any facts.
Strangely, since Morgan thinks that wins are the best way to evaluate a pitcher’s ability, he would probably say that Randy Johnson had a terrific 2006 based on his 17 wins.
Gammons and Kurkjian are okay, i dont have a problem with them, eveyone knows gammons is a redsox fan but he does not reflect that in his journalism
[...] April 8th, 2007 at 8:16 pm (Sports) Joe Morgan is a fool and deserves to be http://www.firejoemorgan.com/. [...]
That website is great.
I especially love their definition of “true yankee” in their glossary of terms. They have nailed it.
I never watch games on ESPN anymore. I really can’t stand listening to those two bafoons talk about whatever nonsense they think of for the entire duration of the game.
When I have to watch ESPN if the Yankees are playing, I’ll put the TV on mute and listen to Sterlin and Waldman on the radio. Listening to Morgan and Miller gets me sooooooo aggravated.
I’ve never bought into the ESPN anti-Yankees bias. That’s a bunch of BS.
There is nothing wrong with ESPN’s coverage of the Yankees.
The Yankees get more coverage on that network than than any other team in MLB — with Boston a close second.
Although I am no fan of Joe Morgan, Jon Miller does a pretty good job considering who his partner is.
Watching the Sox game makes me long for a starter who can go 7 innings.
Anaconda – I normally don’t buy into the bias thing, but have you watched ESPN this season? They gave A-Rod a hard time for the Tampa Bay curtain call….but Dice-K is an automatic 18-20 game winner since he whipped up the Royals? They’ll spend 20 minutes analyzing the negative of any A-Rod play….but it took them 30 minutes into SportsCenter last night to replay the Grand Slam….the biggest event of the day. We had to watch 20 highlights of hockey before they got to it. I could go on and on…believe me. Like I said, I try to keep perspective. I understand that not every negative thing said/written about the Yankees is anti-Yankee. But Remmy and Orsillo are more fair and balanced than the Baseball Tonight crew.
Watch or listen to the highlights on MLB.com of a Yankees/anyone game called by Miller & Morgan.
Miller goes apesh*t when anyone scores on the Yankees. When the Yankees score…not so much.
I totally agree re: Remy & Orsillo being more fair & balanced than any ESPN crew. When I have the choice to watch ESPN or NESN for a Yankees/Sox game, I go with NESN every single time.
Joe Morgan the Broadcaster is a stubborn, narrow-minded guy, a little full of himself and probably not the sharpest knife in the draw. But how does that make him any different from many of the jocks who hang it up to become a talking head? (He certainly helps you appreciate that Bobby Murcer is in a class by himself). Come to think of it, how does that make him different from 90% of the professional announcers out there? Joe Morgan the Ballplayer, now that’s someone I have respect for. Jon Miller I really enjoy. Listen to him without looking at the screen sometime and really appreciate his descriptions. He sounds like he came up in radio, or at least in TV when the announcers spoke more to the listeners than to each other.
Dustin: I watched SportsCenter last night. A-Rod’s slam was in the highlights in the first few seconds and it was the second story after The Masters.
What’s funny is that fans of 29 others teams are convinced that ESPN kisses up to the Yankees.
Pete,
Gammons is objective. But on the whole, ESPN stands for Everything Sox Programming Network. They are definitely biased.
Peace,
JFH
Haha, Joe Morgan’s commentary is rather irritating at times.. He does come off as a rather arrogant guy, but I guess he gets a pass for what he’s done.
BUT, while im at UMASS Amherst, everyone always tell me the FOX commentators are biased against the Red Sox.. anyone else feel this way? I think Buck is great.
Well, another boring “set-up” episode of The Sopranos. The problem is that pretty much every episode of the show now is a set-up and no payoff ever comes.
Fox loves the Sox. In the 2004 ALCS all they could ever talk about was the Yankee payroll excess in comparison to the Sox. Joe Buck routinely pointed this out, but he was not alone. In the 2004 WS, I do not recall them mentioning the Red Sox spending some 50 million more than the Cards. The topic just disappeared.
I have to agree Remy & Orsillo are great they are obviously RSN slanted because its the team they covered but their opinons and analysis of the other team in baseball are about as unbiased as you can get baseball tongiht should learn from them I actually don’y mind when extrra innings carries the NESN feed. The other teams fans that complain about espn and the yankees complain about the amount of coverage Yankee fans complain about the context they have been pretty harsh all year. To be air I missed SC last night but espn news was all over Arods big day.
“Strangely, since Morgan thinks that wins are the best way to evaluate a pitcher’s ability, he would probably say that Randy Johnson had a terrific 2006 based on his 17 wins”
actually that was our own Michael Kay who made that very argument on his radio show.
no one claimed Kay was the sharpest knife in the drawer
Anybody see Papelbon tonight? Best closer in baseball, imo.
And Schilling pitched better than any Yankee starter so far.
Pete- Was it in the introductory highlights? I thought I flipped it on as soon as it started. It was Masters (I agree should’ve been the the main story…I picked Zach Johnson to win it all on Wednesday), then hockey. And about 10:30 CST is when I saw the first Yankee highlight.
I know that everyone thinks that they cover the Yankees and Red Sox too much as a whole, and they do. But it’s covered like the Rebel Alliance vs. the Empire.
And it’s not all the Baseball Tonight crew….just Karl Ravech and Steve Phillips. I understand all the A-Rod coverage. But if A-Rod was having the same start as Manny, they’d be all over his opt out clause. And Manny is the guy who demands a trade every year…and they giggle about it….Manny being Manny.
“Best closer in baseball, imo.”
He’s very good, but I disagree.
I prefer a closer who is dominant AND has proven durable enough to last at least one full season.
“Best closer in baseball, imo.�
Why do Sox fans troll Yankee sites?
How about best closer when healthy?
If you had one game to close out and could choose between a healthy Rivera or a healthy Papelbon, which one would you pick?
Vlad Guerrero batting.
Peter, while I will be the first person to sign a Joe Morgan is a terrible annoucer petition I have to say I agree with him here. You can quickly forget about their pitching problems last season because in order to do it you must rely on memory, not stats. While stats are an extremely valueable tool, I think we can both agree you can say almost anything you want through stats. I can’t tell you how many times last season I was disappointed at another awful Randy Johnson outing, a less then stellar performance from Moose, a horrid 3 inning hit-fest from Wright, or the lack of crucial late game pitching from the bullpen. Pitching was most certainly a large problem last season, but in order to realize that you must go beyond stats. Some things just do not show up on paper. If you look at the stats on paper for the Yanks, ideally they should go 162-0 because they are so good.
Papelbon is very good. But let me know when he does what he’s doing now for 10 years running. Then I’ll consider him the best closer in baseball.
Fire Joe Morgan is one of the funniest blogs on the net. Joe Morgan is truly a dolt. Anyway, I wouldn’t worry about the Yankees’ pitching just yet. It’s one week into the season. Everyone should relax a bit.
“Coverage” on ESPN was not the issue. The issue is bias, specifically: exactly what is covered, the audio and/or video provided, which athletes are covered and what is said about them, hyping 1 or 2 stats that may favor 1 player over a more deserving one. The “coverage” complaint has been addressed at length by ESPN. They said 39% of their audience resides in the northeast, so they must give that area more coverage. This is not news. And why don’t you check into the resumes of the people making decisions at Disney/ESPN. It’s Boston, period. Practically everyone giving information about baseball these days is affiliated with ESPN, will be, or wishes to be. This was stated in the 4/5/07 entry of the new ESPN ombudsman. And “closers”? What happened to sweeping the performance of the greatest one in history under the rug because it was only a “limited sample size.”
All of a sudden, that objection’s out the window. Now, they define “the best closer” after a few weeks, or 1 day like someone here did.
A healthy Rivera, easy. Papelbon has been a closer for all of one year and a couple of games. He had a fantastic year last year and he looked nasty in tonights game, but before we anoint him the new Lord of the Ninth Inning, let’s see him even begin to show what Rivera has done over his entire career. Gagne had one amazing season but since then hasn’t been as good as Rivera even when healthy. Lidge had a great 2004 and a good 2005, but now what? I’m not knocking Papelbon, don’t misunderstand me, I’d be glad to have him on my team. But as Harrs said, get back to me in 10 years or so.
As for Schilling, yes, in his second start he looked very good. In his first start, he looked as bad as any of the Yankee starters, and worse than some. None of the Yankee pitchers have gotten a second start yet, so I’ll wait and see what they do first.
Nicely done, Peter.
ESPN: i don’t watch baseball tonight or sportscenter much anymore. bias or no, it’s annoying. gammons is the only reason i’d tune in.
rainbowtrout: give me rivera 10 times out of 10. papelbon’s a very good closer, but come on, dude.
guess schilling’s not as finished as we all thought, huh? hopefully that holds true for moose and (r)andy, too.
but we’re still all convinced that rasner or karstens could fill in for wang and do an able job, right? just a few games, no big deal. right?
and melky, we’re still convinced he’s a “five-tool player” and “future star,” right? i’m not saying that they should trade him, but come on, guys.
the yankees reign was going to end one of these seasons. maybe this isn’t it – five games in, now way to tell – but it’s sure off to an ugly start.
Yeah, I heard that too, Peter.
He just says the first thing that comes to his head.
The way they were justifying Paplebon missing his spots in the 8th was ridiculous.
“I can’t tell you how many times last season I was disappointed at another awful Randy Johnson outing, a less then stellar performance from Moose…”
It should be noted that despite the “less than stellar performances from Moose,” he did finish 2006 with the 4th best ERA in the AL, tied for 8th in Ks, tied for 2nd in quality starts and had a 1.11 WHIP. If he even approaches those numbers again this year, I’ll take that gladly.
It certainly isn’t pleasant, but I can’t remember the last time the Yankees got off to an 10-0 start. (Where’s Elias when you need em?). The Yankees always start slow. Dunno why, but in the past couple of years, it seems to be true more often than not. At least the Sox aren’t faring much better… tho I’m sure everyone here would rather just concentrate on the Yanks for now.
After the first 11 games:
In 2006 they were in last at 5-6 (Boston 8-4 – first)
In 2005 they were in tied for last at 4-7 (Boston 6-5 – third)
In 2004 they were third at 5-6 (Boston 6-4 – first)
In 2003 they were in first at 9-2 (Boston 7-5 – second)
In 2002 they were in first at 7-4 (Boston 5-3 second)
While not thrilling, the current standings are pretty lackluster too:
Jays 3-2
Sox 3-3
Yanks 2-3
TB 2-3
Balt 2-4
So, hopefully the staff will start to get into form asap. Getting Wang and Karstens back will be a nice boost.
“I totally agree re: Remy & Orsillo being more fair & balanced than any ESPN crew. When I have the choice to watch ESPN or NESN for a Yankees/Sox game, I go with NESN every single time.”
Jerry Remy may be the worst announcer in the history of the profession (yes, I know Hawk Harrelson exists). He’s absolutely unlistenable and dumb as a doornail. Orsillo is hardly any better.
Also, I may not think Joe Morgan is great, but the guy who runs that site is a really irritating sabermetrics snob. Nothing worse than a sabermetrics snob (except Remy and Orsillo).
By the end of April tho:
2006 – 13-10 first (Boston 14-11 second)
2005 – 10-14 fourth (Boston 12-11 second)
2004 – 21-11 third (Boston 15-6 first)
2003 – 21-6 first (Boston 18-9 second)
2002 – 17-10 second (Boston 16-7 first)
So… guess all this means is that it’s too early to tell.
What’s funny is that fans of 29 others teams are convinced that ESPN kisses up to the Yankees.
Pete, I agree that ESPN pays too much attention to the Yankees and the Red Sox, so I can understand why, say a White Sox fan might feel that way. However ESPN tends to focus negatively on the Yankees, leading off with negative teases, hiring almost all Boston lackeys for their “Page 2″ section, etc. Also they had a 2 hour special called “Are the Yankees Bad for Baseball?”
Not exactly unbiased, although I agree that Gammons does get somewhat of a bad rap.
Peter — Nice notes on JM et al. It’s reassuring to know so many others agree that he’s a fool. I heard he hates HOF Reds beat writer Hal McCoy. That man is a god. That’s enough for me to confirm my opinions.
The Yanks’ SPs do have me concerned, to say the least. I look forward to watching them when the grass isn’t partically frozen, though. BTW, is it too late to put in a bid for Dice-K? What about Papelbon? That’d be great.
Kasey you are a piece of work.. Wang won 19 games last yr. he is about 27 throws about 94… Do you think he is washed up yet?
They have 157 games to go is that enough time to turn things around?
Pettite lost it all in 4 months, same with Moose, and pavano he is worse then Tavarez. Also shilling found the fountain of youth at 40..
Ladies it is a long season. The Yanks have more room in minor league talent to make a move or moves if they need to.. Or maybe they should have tim redding, darrle may, and some of those old stars laying around to give pitching chances to!!!!!!!!
Th
Pete is exactly right about ESPN and SportsCenter on Saturday.
The A-Rod slam was the most covered story of the day after The Masters and ESPNEWS ran it about 100 times and replayed Buster Olney’s analysis about how A-Rod is rejuvenated and on a mission this season.
If you didn’t watch anything else, you could swear that the only sporting events that took place on Saturday were The Masters and the Yanks game.
A dose of perspective on pitching:
Not too distant past season, the first 5 Yanks game scores:
@ Anaheim 1-4 loss
@ Anaheim 2-10 loss
@ Oakland 3-7 loss
@ Oakland 9-7 win
@ Oakland 0-8 loss
How would we be feeling with that?
By the way, season was 1998. Yanks record was 114-48.
Perspective.
Rivera. If my life depended on it, Rivera.
stuart,
at what point in my post did i say anything negative about wang? he was great last year, hopefully he’ll be great again this year. but wang isn’t the problem.
pettitte didn’t “lose it all.” he had a 4.5+ ERA in the NATIONAL LEAGUE last year. translate that to the american league. he’s 34 and has elbow (and back?) issues. he’s not the andy pettitte who pitched for the yankees in 2001, or even 2003 for that matter. it’s a different guy.
moose didn’t “lose it all,” but he’s not ready for the season, and as another poster noted, you don’t just find velocity and command of your pitches in a week. he’s a couple of weeks away.
here’s the thing people don’t seem to understand: pettitte and moose will probably be fine. not great, but fine. but it’ll take a while to get there. but with wang hurt, and pavano and igawa in the rotation, the yankees can’t afford to wait for pettitte and wang to get on track. THAT’S the problem.
and for anyone assuming clemens will come to the rescue, remember: in order for him to consider a team, that team must be in contention. if this pitching keeps up, the yankees will be irrelevent by the time rocket’s ready to picth again.
Firejormorgan is a great blog. They may be sabermetric snobs, but they are dead-on with their analysis of how bad sports journalism really is. Sure they are Red Sox fans, but their criticisms are terrific and accurate. Also, do a search for Michael Kay on that site and you will find a link to an audio clip where Michael Kay goes off on one of the stupidest and most offensive rants I’ve ever heard when he compares jinxing a perfect game to the Holocaust and slavery. That guy has some issues to deal with. You will also find the piece where he defends Randy Johnson’s season in 2006 and assaults Mussina. Mike Mussina was one of the best starters in all of baseball last season. Johnson had an ERA of 5.00. Oh but Johnson won 17 games, so he must be better!
Also, how could anyone expect Yankee fans to take any closer over Rivera? Rivera is the greatest ever. Even if you don’t feel like he is the greatest closer in baseball today, mostly all Yankee fans would choose him as their guy. It just makes sense. It’s sort of like asking a Yankee fan if they would rather have Derek Jeter or Jose Reyes as their shortstop. Most Yankee fans will take Jeter.
And even if we take Rivera out of the equation and you do like Papelbon because of his lights out ‘06, how can you ignore Joe Nathan, B.J. Ryan, and Francisco Rodriguez? They also had monster seasons last year, and most of them have done it for longer than just ‘06. I’d be much more comfortable with those guys as my closer over Papelbon. Many closers have had brief stints of success, but rarely do you find the Rivera or Hoffman or Wagner that can close for a decade or more. Lets see what route Papelbon takes. On my list, he ranks somewhere between numbers 5 and 10 for today’s best closers, which is still pretty good.
Give me a break.
The Yanks haven’t been “out of contention” for a playoff spot in June or July (when Clemens will likely make his decision) since they had the worst team in MLB during the stretch of 1990-91 with Bucky Dent as the manager (who was replaced with an even better choice of Stump Merrill) and a starting rotation that included:
Tim Leary
Andy Hawkins
Scott Sanderson
Pascual Perez (who pitched roughly 3 games during his Yankee career)
C’mon already, it isn’t that bad. They probably just played in one of the worst weather conditions for a homestand in their history and the offense still managed to score a lot of runs.
Don’t let common sense get in the way of your dying need to rip your own team.
anaconda,
i’m not saying they’ll be out of it by june. i’m saying IF this keeps up, they will. trying to argue that point is as idiotic as anything i’ve ever posted here.
the starters’ combined ERA is 9.87! for god’s sake, dude, look at that number and tell me that’s comforting to you.
like i said, pettitte and moose will, in all likelihood, improve. problem is, while the yankees wait for that to happen, they’ll have to endure one injured ace, two pitchers trying to round themselves into shape, and two pitchers who really aren’t very good (pavano and igawa). that’s a lot to overcome. can they do it? sure. they’ve been on top for a decade. but, sooner or later, they’re going to miss the playoffs. that’s the reality.
but, yeah, you’re right anaconda. it was the weather. which somehow didn’t effect the other teams as much as it did the yankees. and somehow didn’t effect the braves when they played in philly. or paul byrd when he no-hit the mariners for 4 2/3 innings before that game got postponed. yep, it was the weather. your logic, as always, is impeccable.
and in minnesota, it’ll be the dome. no one is comfortable in that dome.
and in oakland, well, the A’s just seem to have the yankees number, right? just dumb, blind luck.
eventually, you start to run out of excuses.
I’m not going to take a stretch of 5 games and determine anything.
They haven’t played good defense and their starters have been horrible thus far. So what?
Their rotation is anything but spectacular, but you have to also consider the weather conditions they played in and the fact that their ace and long man in the pen are both on the DL (Wang and Karstens).
Not to mention that Hughes will be in the rotation at some point during the season (probably around the All Star Break) and Clemens could return as well.
Regardless, everyone knows that the team they are fielding in April is not the same team they will have in August and September. Changes will be made if they need it.
As others have pointed out, this team always seems to start slow in April for whatever reason. Perhaps it’s their age — who knows.
However, the last time I checked, they have managed to overcome those slow starts to win the division for the last decade.
The Red Sox aren’t exactly steamrolling their opponents either.
It absolutely amazes me how much this team has accomplished the last decade under Torre and nobody seems to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Its ridiculous and so many people are already panicking after this team played 5 sloppy games in a virtual blizzard.
Running out of excuses, eh?
What is your excuse for obsessively ripping your own team that has averaged 98 wins (I did the math) per season during the Joe Torre Era?
I have no idea what your marital status is but my guess is you’ll be anxiously awaiting to sign your divorce papers the night of your wedding.
healthy rivera.
It looks like both Matsui and Dom Amore of the Daily News agrees with Kasey:
On weather, Matsui said:
Matsui also said that weather could have been a factor. “Maybe to a certain extent, the weather might have been a factor, but the fact that that happened was maybe my responsibility for not being prepared for the season and that could have been a factor too,� he said through an interpreter.
He added: “A lack of preparation might have been a factor. I can’t pinpoint it. From my perspective, I gave it the best I can to prepare for the season, but the fact that this happened means that somewhere something wasn’t right.�
no shifting of responsibilities there.
and Don Amore said:
Like This, Yankees Won’t Get Far
http://www.courant.com/sports/.....s-baseball
but he also indicates that the staff will improve (if only because there’s nowhere to go but up). But I have faith that this will get better. I guess their warmups weren’t good enough and maybe next year, they’ll start conditioning themselves a little sooner.
ESPN is definitely BoSox-biased.
I remember late last season for the ‘Boston Massacre’, there was hardly any mention of it, mostly Tiger Woods and a short blurb about the Yankees 5-game sweep cementing them into 1st place for good.
If the situation was reversed, ESPN would have hosted a parade down Kenmore Square, moderated by clueless Joe Morgan & Peter Gammons.
Pete, does it make sense to send down Rasner and recall a reliever? Not that Rasner was especially bad, but the bullpen is overworked.
papelbon better than Mariano Rivera? guys, don’t take the bait.
Rivera and its not even close. Papelbon is very good. However, Rivera has dominated the closer’s role in the game for about 6 years longer than the average for that position.
That alone puts him above Papelbon and I haven’t even talked about his post-season success.
The starting pitching? We shall see. Second time around starting this week and there needs to be some improvements.
With the bullpen and the offense the Yankees have this year, they don’t need the starters to be great. They need them to be average.
If they can’t be average, then they have problems.
The first week has been bad on a historical level. The worst opening 5 game performance from starters in the history of the franchise. No spin can excuse the first 5 games. It was brutal to watch.
The optimist in me says they can go nowhere but up.
The realist in me says a few of these guys will get better and a few of them will be out of the rotation by May.
Kasey wrote: “pettitte didn’t “lose it all.â€? he had a 4.5+ ERA in the NATIONAL LEAGUE last year. ”
It was 4.20. Nice try, though.
SJ44
I think your optimist and realist can peacefully co-exist. There IS nowhere to go but up, but that just might mean changes in the rotation.
if johnson can win 17 games with a 5 era, why can’t pettitte?
wins are the only things that matter anyway.
Ill agree with Morgan. They Yanks dont have great pitching. The Tigers had great pitching. You win with great pitching. Right now on April 9, we have mediocre pitching. I’d love to see one starter go 7 innings once this week.
Terry Francona wouldnt even take Papelbon over Rivera. I think that answers that dumb question.
Obviously Rivera is better but the gap between Papelbon and Rivera isn’t as big as people want to think. Papelbon dominated last year and is a lot younger than Rivera. If I were drafting a team tommorow, I would consider taking Papelbon over Rivera because of his youth and flexibility between starting and closing.
And if you could have the Yankees starting rotation or Boston’s starting rotation, which would you choose?
Ross, dude
that makes no sense to me at all… Papelbon will be on the DL sooner than later. Even more if you consider S*x’s blowpen. they only have Papelbon and they’re using his arm too much in early april… Remember this is the very one guy they would put in the starting rotation because of medical issues. He’s doomed.
Rivera by te other side, besides his age, is managed very carefully by the Yankees because they know who’s the cream of the crop.
Here’s a Poem called When it’s over. The Yankees will not win the Al East and not make the playoffs this year.
When it’s over do you stop caring?
Is breaking up a burden worth baring?
Once so lucky,but now feel cursed
Our dream,our bubble just burstAll the time I’m feelin’ sad
everyday is the same,yet I’m not mad
I wish you well in all you do
because I now that you’re still you
In honest truth I love you still
But if it can’t be maybe it’s not God’s will
If it is I just can’t wait
I’ll be so glad it’s not too late
Right now the rain clouds cover the sun
And I don’t know if you’re the one
When it’s over are we just done
Or is a new start,have we only just begun?
Jake,
Did the Cardinals have great pitching last season?
chickeneater, you’ve got to be kidding me. Wins and Losses for a pitcher are really stupid stats to use when judging a pitcher’s value. Obviously the Team Wins at the end of the season is what counts for determining postseason eligibility, but don’t confuse that as being the same thing as Pitcher’s Wins. Randy Johnson had the best run support in the AL last season, and so he was credited with 17 wins even though he pitched like crap. Think about this: out of the 39 AL pitchers that qualified for the ERA title, Johnson ranked 34th. That is awful.
Or consider this: Jason Marquis won 14 games with a 6.02 ERA in 2006. Jake Peavy won 11 games with a 4.09 ERA in 2006. Randy Johnson won 17 games with a 5.00 ERA in 2006. Which pitcher would you rather have on your team for this season? The answer is, Jake Peavy. By far. He’s one of the best pitchers in baseball, but his wins from last season wouldn’t indicate that. Jason Marquis is a horrible horrible pitcher. Randy Johnson pitched poorly last season. Both of those guys had more Wins than Peavy. Bottom line: Pitcher’s Wins is a stupid stat.
“ESPN is definitely BoSox-biased.
I remember late last season for the ‘Boston Massacre’, there was hardly any mention of it, mostly Tiger Woods and a short blurb about the Yankees 5-game sweep cementing them into 1st place for good.”
You must have been doing some serious tweaking as a result of some bad ’shrooms that weekend because ESPN broadcasted 4 of the 5 games that series in addition to Baseball Tonight and SportsCenter showing nonstop coverage.
Morgan does not like Yankees, and hasnt since the yanks were compared to his big red machine teams. He’s a Yankee hater.
He makes very little attempt to hide it either, which on ESPN, has unfortunaly become the norm.
Why weren’t they talking aboyt the fact that the redsox offense has been awful so far? B/c they will come around perhaps??
Funny how that doesnt work for the yankees.
Thanks to Mike A of RiverSideBlues analyzing and comparing both rotation after five games.
Nats’ rotation: 22.1 IP, 31 H, 22 ER, 12 BB, 14 K
Yanks’ rotation: 21.2 IP, 36 H, 24 ER, 10 BB, 12 K
Take solace in the fact that the Yanks play in the AL East…
Thoughts?
“Bottom line: Pitcher’s Wins is a stupid stat.”
I think the vast majority of Cy Young Award recipients as well as every pitcher in the Hall of Fame would vehemently disagree with that statement.
Career wins is also one of the most telling stats in determining whether a pitcher should be elected to the HoF — with 300 wins as the targeted benchmark for elite status among the greatest pitchers in MLB history.
was it just me or did it seem that Joe Morgan has a crush on Papelbon? I couldn’t tell if he wanted to date him or give insight. Man that was hard to listen to last night.
Nobody has any idea whether Joe Morgan really hates the Yanks or not.
However, I’m quite sure that the comparisons between his Big Red Machine and the Yanks of the latest dynasty has absolutely nothing to do with it.
That’s ridiculous.
What is the record number of replys to one post? Joe Morgan is BORING. Let’s change the subject.
I heard Joe Morgan say earlier this year that he “doesn’t concern himself with stats because those things don’t matter”
I turned off the game.
Morgan hates the Yankees. Its that plain and simple.
Pete, do you know the rotation for the weekend yet? With Thursday off, I’m guessing that we’ll see either Igawa or Rasner on Friday but then back to Pavano on Saturday (and the fact that that seems like a good thing is nothing short of remarkable).
Maybe the qualities that nade Joe Morgan a great player (refusing to listen to those who doubted his ability) hurt him as a broadcaster. But I don’t know if his comments about Yankee pitching were THAT inaccurate. Mussina couldn’t hold a lead in game 2, RJ was as horrible as Morgan’s LCS average (.132 in eight series) and Jaret Wright did a Ken Clay impersonation in game 4.
I know lots of Yankee fans think of ESPN/NESN2. What do Red Sox fans think of it? Plenty of them feel Morgan (and McCarver) kiss Jeter’s rear.
ESPN sucks, I hardly ever watch it anymore, jsut to get scores from espnews. They are so bias and have all this coverage of the Red Sox and all, they suck. I wish I lived closer to NY so I could get the YES network, but at least I have my XM.
Anacoda,
Nobody has any idea what the vast majority of Cy Young Award recipients or every pitcher in the Hall of Fame think, you are merely spectulating and your statement is quite incorrect.
FYI, ESPN does not broadcast the same games nationwide, they determine it based on the region you live in. You must be smoking crack or meth to think that what comes on to your TV is the center of the universe.
“What is the record number of replys to one post? Joe Morgan is BORING.”
agreed.
“and Jaret Wright did a Ken Clay impersonation in game 4.”
you could say he did a Jaret Wright impersonation.
i just want to say that I can’t stand Joe Buck and would take any announcer over him.
that is all…
I just read the Joe Morgan Chat on FireJoeMorgan.com. According to Joe Morgan, the 1976 Reds were the best team ever, better than the 1927 Yankees. Also, the Yankees won their 4 recent WS titles only by playing well for two weeks out of each season, i.e. the playoffs. I guess winning the AL East each of those years and the 114 Wins in 1998 didn’t qualify as playing well throughout the year.
Ummm, Morgan may hate the Yankees (but he does revere stars such as Jeter and Mo), but he really hates the Sox. I am a lifelong Yankee fan and outside of Ortiz (and Papelbon last night) I have noticed that he routinely goes out of his way to disparage that team and city. All of my boys that follow the Sox loathe Morgan. My guess is that Joe is still bitter about the ‘76 Series in Boston during which I am sure the fans had some choice words for him (even thought the Reds won). All in all, most of the national broadcasters are completely worthless (especially Captain Obvious Joe Buck – also a Yankee-hater).
Cardinals of 2006 played well for less than 2 weeks. What’s his point?
The Big Red Machine WAS a great team, and of course Joe Morgan’s biased because he played a big role on those teams in the 70’s. But he’ll never get the playoff he wants between the ‘76 Reds and the ‘27 Yankees. Let him have this bias — he’s entitled. What he’s not entitled to do is to denigrate any other team that does well. You don’t win 4 out of 5 WS, or 114 games in one season on luck alone; and clearly you don’t win on talent alone.
I think it’s safe to say that anything Joe Morgan or John Miller say can be dismissed. Watch the espn games with the sound off and your all set.
Rossb.. Your comments are funny. Papelbon because of his ability to start…really what is his record as a starter in the big leagues???
You do not need to look it up I will tell you. 0 – 0 with zero IP..
I guess his track record as a starter is better then Rivera.
This is the type of pollution that is on this site on a daily basis.. 178 more days of stupid posts from people that have no clue…
“How about best closer when healthy?”
this question is ridiculous btw.
i mean why not just ask which is better in their most dominant form?
“You do not need to look it up I will tell you. 0 – 0 with zero IP..”
actually it’s 0-0 with 16 IP and a 2.25 ERA.
he started 3 games in 2005.
Pap v. Mo is a worthless argument. G.O.A.T. against a guy with less than a year’s experience (and no playoffs).
Mo has definitely been the best of years past, and my favorite Yankee to boot, but if I were starting a team tomorrow, Papelbon is my choice. Mo will forever exist in some realm of my subconscious as a guy who undeniably gave the Yankees the edge in nearly every close late inning game for the past ten years, but those days are few and numbered now. Papelbon may not be the next sliced bread, but his upside make me choose him, as sacrelidge as it may be to my own values, he is the better arm at this moment. All that being said, I’ll take Mo, and maybe lose with the guy I love.
Stuart -
Hmmm beat me to it, but it would be wise to check your facts before firing off at others. The blog mirror reveals all flaws. A little salt for that foot?
anaconda, I meant that Pitcher’s Wins is a stupid stat to use for the purpose of determining if one pitcher was better than another in a particular season. And that does include determining the Cy Young award winner for a given year. For example, Bartolo Colon won the CY Young award in 2005 with a 21-8 record. But it was clear that Santana was a better starter that year (better ERA, a WHIP under 1.00!, many more K’s, etc). But Santana was “only” 16-7 in W-L record. Even Rivera had more of a claim to the CY Young award than Colon did. Colon’s 2005 stats for a CY Young winner are relatively crappy, except for the fact that he won 21 games. Take a look at all the stats. There is no way you can say that Colon was better than Santana that year.
Alex
“FYI, ESPN does not broadcast the same games nationwide, they determine it based on the region you live in. You must be smoking crack or meth to think that what comes on to your TV is the center of the universe.”
Um, I live in Chicago — which is nowhere near NY or Boston and also has two MLB teams who reside in this city (not to mention that one of them won the WS the previous season).
What does this mean? It means that ESPN broadcasted those Yanks/BoSox games nationally because both Chicago teams were playing at the same time.
Please, you’re embarrassing yourself.