The Sunday links
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Apr 15, 2007 
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Brian Bruney gutted one out for the Yankees last night and Jason Giambi helped make him a winner.
Kyle Farnsworth is facing a change in role as Joe Torre shuffles his bullpen.
Chien-Ming Wang took a big step in his comeback. This notebook also checks in with Mike Piazza.
The Sunday baseball notes takes a look at the decline in black players through the eyes of Kevin Thompson. Check out the power rankings, the mailbag and what Hank Aaron had to say about Barry Bonds.
Another extra inning loss would have dampened my spirits considerably. Nice to get one back after letting one slip away Friday night.
I’d say the bullpen is getting their work in. Heh. Need to get six or seven from Andy today, and it’s fortunate the Yanks are off Monday.
We need Wang back badly, dude straight up eats innings and saves the bullpen every 5th day when he takes the ball, and with Joe Torre’s obvious overuse of the bullpen and the guys he “trust” Wang is such an asset we can only hope stays healthy.
“Pitching to contact�that is what Schilling said in his Blog. He used to be a power pitcher (or strike-out pitcher). Now, he is changing. What a smart guy! If I were Cashman, I would sign him this off season.
Thank God you are not.
Great win last night.
I am always amazed that when the starter can’t make it past the 5-6th inning, Torre gets criticized for “overusing the bullpen.” The relievers are conditioned for 1-2 innings, and when you need to fashion 3,4,5 or more innings you go through them. Who the heck is supposed to pitch, A-Rod?
The thing is, Joe, is that Rasner was pulled after 79 pitches…and he was cruising.
Yep, Kasey, don’t you just hate it when this team wins?
I guess it makes you look foolish AGAIN since you decided to bury this team after the 1st inning.
I think your team won 8-0 yesterday so you should be pretty happy.
the most discouraging thing about Minky actually happened when he hit the ball decently in his last AB. He had a nice swing and hit the ball very solidly…but it went nowhere…couldn’t even reach the warning track. This happens to players who are “washed up” all the time. Bernie would do this last season, also. The Yanks cannot afford to have first basemen who can’t hit and then also play a backup catcher who cannot hit in the same game.
Has anyone thought about using hideki matsui at first base? Melky adds a dimension the yankees sorely need. matsui’s intellect, work ethic, athleticism and instincts will go a long way right out of the chute, not don mattingly, but even at the start probably not much less than they get from anyone other than mientkewitz (sp?). there has to be a diplomatic way, in the tradition of micky mantle, to make this happen.
Hey Pete,
Farns and Proctor have been pitching with reduced velocity thus far. Could still be building arm strength, could be hurting, could be Torre’d. Could you do some fact finding? I wouldn’t think any other media person would pick up on it.
I like how the trolls are all hiding after a great win…
Is anyone else annoyed with the fan and the blow horn? It’s the guy who is trying to get the “Let’s go Oakland” chant going. I can barely hear the announcers over it. I thought you couldn’t have those at a ball park.
“Has anyone thought about using hideki matsui at first base?”
I was actually hoping this would be a consideration at the end of last season.
I firmly believe, despite what Torre is saying publicly, that Giambi will be back at first when Matsui returns.
Melky has already made six plays on this roadtrip that Matsui would have never made. Giambi isn’t a great first baseman (no range or throwing arm) but, he can scoop balls out of the dirt as well as anybody. We all know he is going to hit and the fact is, he hits better when he plays first as opposed to being the DH.
You can’t have two guys (Minky and Phelps) who can’t hit a lick in the lineup everyday. They can always use Minky as a defensive replacement late in games.
The this team plays better with Melky in the lineup everyday.
One lost fact from last night. Cabrera gunning down a runner in the first inning ended up saving the game. Does anybody think Matsui would have made that play?
Dustin,
Yes! That guy with the horn was so irritating in Friday’s game.
Fred,
When Matsui was getting ready to come back from his injury last year, he said he would play first base, anything for the team. (love that guy). I don’t think the team is going to replace Matsui with Melky out there. But Melky has to learn to hit without playing everyday. His struggles started when Matsui came back last year and continued this year when he was not a starter. That’s an attitude and mental adjustment he needs to make.
O/T but what a shame for the Jackie Robinson tribute that the east coast games have been cancelled due to rain. Buster Olney wrote a great article on Robinson Cano. He repeatedly mentions that Cano will occupy 3rd base when you know who vacates.
Pete, regarding Aaron and Bonds. As a kid, my parents taught many things. Two of them are 1)actions speak louder than words. 2)And if you can’t say anything good about someone, don’t say anything at all. It appears to me that Hank is doing just that. If he doesn’t want to get drawn into the controversy, I can respect that.
“This team plays better with Melky in the lineup everyday.”
You mean without? Melky Cabrera is hitting .179/.220/.179 so far this season, even worse than Josh Phelps. I am not sure how the team plays better with him in the lineup if he is actually hurting the lineup.
What a grind last night. Not for the Yankees – but for me!
I can’t handle the pressure of those extra innings games any longer! (only kidding)
The bullpen has been great, but the defense needs a wakeup call – it is horrendous right now. INot to make excuses but there seems to be a problem with the lighting in Oakland.
(I know, every team is subject to the same conditions). Its not only Abreu, but even Damon and Melky don’t look as comfortable fielding fly balls – they don’t seem to be picking them up sharply.
I’ve never been a big supporter of Torre’s pitching management, but there’s l;ittle to criticize about his moves in Oakland so far. Yeah you can question why Rasner comes out after 79 pitches, but he’s had a blister problem or maybe he said he was tiring. With the current state of the bullpen,though, making through the 7th or into the 8th would’ve certainly helped.
I don’t know what the minimum timeframe for a minor league transaction is (24 hours, perhaps) but I would definitely consider optioning Sean Henn and Kevin Thompson to Scranton for two capable arms just for today’s game and recall them on Tuesday.
I’d like to know who the heck does, Hey honey i’ve got an idea, lets bring my horn to the game. LOL It is just like with the indians, there is a guy who brings a drum! Who the heck wants to carry that into the game? and why are they allowed! Its bad and loud enough hearing it on tv, imagine being the poor smuck (sp) who sits near them!
“Buster Olney wrote a great article on Robinson Cano. He repeatedly mentions that Cano will occupy 3rd base when you know who vacates.”
You gotta love Robinson Cano. Even though it was a great article, he is a reporter not a baseball analyzer, when it comes to baseball analyzing, he is an idiot.
the national media discussion on jackie robinson day so far has been focused on the lack african-american players. i think jackie robinson would be as upset about the lack of african-americam managers and general managers.
i also think jackie robinson would hate sabermetrics. before all of you on this blog who are sabermetrically inclined go crazy, take a look in the mirror. you’ll notice you are all white.
many of you love the blog “fire joemorgan”. joe morgan did a pretty good impersonation of jackie robinson in his baseball career. i think jackie robinson would like joe morgan. i don’t think jackie robinson would like “fire joe morgan”.
there is no denying that sabermetrics has had an impact on the game. the problem is that it is a white movement. if anyone out there knows of an african-american sabermetrician,i would be delighted to hear it.
the sabermetric movement is composed of almost all white members, bill james, rob neyer,theo epstein, depodesta, the baseball prospectus folks , etc. i don’t believe for a second that any of these people are rascist.they are all white liberals who would abhor rascism of any kind.
the problem is that the sabermetric movement is spearheaded by the trend of young,ivy league statistically inclined gms best illustrated by theo epstein in boston.
i call it inadvetent rascism. they don’t mean to, but they replace african-americans in gm jobs. dave stewart would have a gm job if he wasn’t bounced out by the trend of hiring the new white ivy league boy wonders. kenny williams can’t figure out why david wilder ,an african american and his assistant at chicago , doesn’t have a gm job.
a common link that kenny williams, omar minaya, dave stewart , and david wilder all have is that they are former players. sabermetricians think that being bright and actually playing the game gives you less knowledge than being bright and knowing the facts of baseball statistical analysis.
what’s all this have to do with jackie robinson? the simple answer is that gm jobs are more likely to be filled by white ivy league sabermetrically inclined gms who have never played the game than former african-american players like stewart and wilder who have played the game.
the mets and the white sox are examples of racially diverse managements. they both have gms of color and managers of color. the yankees and the red sox are white,white,white,and white.
theo epstein of the red sox is totally sabermetric and cashman of the yankees leans that way.
i realize that the sabermetric movement doesn’t consciously exclude african-americans and that social forces are at work that spit out white ivy league staistically inclined professionals out of upper class schools.
the problem is until african- americans and others of color can have an equal place in these schools than we’re stuck with white statistically inclined gms.
there is however a ready made pool of african-american applicants who are qualified to be gms. that pool is smart former african-american players.
jackie robinson was college graduate from an outstanding school,but if he were alive and in his fourties or fifties today, he’d a tough time getting a gm job.
i think he’d be pretty disappointed and outraged by this.
having a diverse management isn’t just the right thing to do, it’s also the right way to have a winning team. you only have to take a look at the mets and chicago to see this. take a look at the success that williams has had at chicago with his budget and take a look at the red sox success and their budget. you’d think david wilder would have teams knocking down his door. david wilder would have no trouble competeing with cashman and epstein.
we need another jackie robinson today. there are still doors to be knocked down.
I guess you missed the way the team played with Cabrera in the lineup last year. They have also played better with him in the lineup this year.
He is worse than Josh Phelps? That’s pretty funny.
Interesting how folks memories fade so quickly. Melky isn’t going to hit .179 all season. He has already helped this team win more games in a week than Josh Phelps will help them win in a season.
Play him everyday and he will do the same job he did last year, which was pretty solid.
Its not like they have anybody else who can play LF better than he can and its tough to argue the team wouldn’t be better with he, Giambi and Matsui in the lineup instead of the Minky-Phelps platoon.
“You mean without? Melky Cabrera is hitting .179/.220/.179 so far this season, even worse than Josh Phelps. I am not sure how the team plays better with him in the lineup if he is actually hurting the lineup.”
Melky started the season 2-21, and has been 5-18 in his last four games. He was slumping, but he’s coming out of it.
I don’t think it’s time to toss him aside just yet.
Randy, are you saying that being black is a better qualifier for recognizing baseball talent than actually looking at the numbers players put up??
I hate to disagree, but I really don’t believe that being black should automatically qualify you to GM a ballclub.
Yeah I have to say the guy with the horn was KILLING ME. I like melky as much as the next guy but I honestly think some of us as Yankee fans overvalue the Melk man. He’s good defensively but has been anemic at the bat. Before I get (“Oh! he got 2 hits the other day”) Remember somebody posted his .179 for the short season. Matsui is a hammer and I can’t wait to get him back.
“I would definitely consider optioning Sean Henn and Kevin Thompson to Scranton for two capable arms just for today’s game and recall them on Tuesday. ”
If a player is demoted to the minors- he must stay there for 10 days (unless there he is recalled to replace a player being put on the DL).
With Pettitte going today and the off day tomorrow- I think we will be fine with the tired bullpen. I figure Myers can give you and inning today and Rivera could pitch an inning without any trouble. BRuney is a definite no. Vizcaino and Farnsworth probably are too. Henn might be able to give an inning. Pettitte HAS to go 6- 7 would be great.
re: Jackie Robinson. I don’t want to start any heated arguments, but how can they continually point out statistics that show the lack of African-Americans in sports like baseball and soccer? Kids can only do so much and will gravitate toward the sport that they love. For many kids that could mean football, basketball, and track. If Michael Jordan had been “encouraged” to play baseball, we may not have been blessed to see his basketball greatness. If Kobe Bryant had pursued soccer or LeBron James had played his other love football, they would not be superstars in the NBA. I think that talented African-American athletes are simply pursuing other sports rather than it being the case of feeling shut out of baseball.
Randy,
Excellent post. I don’t know if Sabermetrics is an inherent racist concept as much as it is a bunch of psuedo-intellectuals way of making baseball more complicated than it really is.
I could see how it can lead to some decisionmakers deciding someone “isn’t fit” for a GM’s job because they don’t embrace the concept. If that is happening, its a joke because some very qualified people aren’t holding the positions they should hold in the game.
I think sabermetrics has a useful purpose in baseball as long as its in context with other forms of player analysis.
As in, one’s own two eyes.
Take the Melky Cabrera discussion in this thread. Anyone who watches Cabrera play can’t help but see him do things that helps the team each night. Hell, even non-sabermetricians such as Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriquez, Johnny Damon and Mariano Rivera have all commented how Melky is an important part of the team.
Moving a runner over, making a throw to nail a runner, working a good AB before getting a key hit, cutting a ball off in the OF keeping a single from becoming a double. Those are the type of things that don’t show up if you just evaluate the game through numbers.
Its why so many younger baseball fans miss out on the game. They are too wrapped up in fantasy leagues and are too numbers-crazy.
The numbers have a place in the game. However, if you are a numbers guy alone, you miss the elements of the game that often determines the outcome of a given contest.
Sorry if I disappoint some of you here but I am still going to say it. 2006 is 2006 and 2007 is 2007. Stats don’t carry over the season. Yes Melky was great last year, he was really awesome. I like him and I would love to see him succeed.
However, he is not doing so great this year, at least up to this moment. I know it’s too early to judge on him and he isn’t going to hit .179 all season long, but it won’t change the fact that he is only a bench-type player. Some Yankees have clearly overvalued him.
He is too good to sit on the bench, but he’s not good enough to start everyday either. Upset or not, that’s our Melky.
Let me rephrase my point. Melky is too good to be sitting on the bench everyday, but as of today, he isn’t good enough to start everyday either. He may be able to do that someday in the future, but definitely not today just yet.
Once again, I do love Melky. I do want him to succeed and help the team win. It’s not like I want him to suck or something. It’s just the fact that some people here have overvalued him and acting like he is gonna be a superstar.
Deric, it hasn’t even been two weeks. Andruw Jones is hitting .189, and he’s going to be the hottest outfielder on the FA market next year.
Give the guy a chance.
Over on another newsgroup, we discussed Matsui going to first at the end of last year. This would accomplish a few things IF Matsui could play a reasonably good first base: 1) get Melky 500 ABs 2)keep a stronger and more balanced lineup 3)somebody to interpret for Igawa on the mound 4) allow us to actually have a bench since we wouldn’t need Minky AND Phelps anymore.
We could add another arm to the pen when needed too. It certainly looks like we will need it until Clemens arrives…lol
Reflaxion,
i think only really smart bright people should be gms. david wilder, kenny willimam’s assistant, is smart, bright, and experienced. ask yourself why he can’t get a gm job? google him and read a little about him. there’s a problem in baseball when he doesn’t get to compete against the sabermetrically inclined wonder boys. let the competition decide who’s better, but don’t exclude someone like david wilder from the competition.
and sorry if my comment wasn’t as focused as it should have been for such a serious subject. it was off the top of my head, but it’s stuff that i’ve believed and thought about for a long time.
According to George King NY Post, The Yankees are leaning toward promoting Chase Wright if Pavano unable to pitch.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/04.....e_king.htm
Should Pavano not be able to post, the Yankees are leaning toward promoting lefty Chase Wright from Double-A Trenton. Wright has been dynamite in two Eastern League outings.
Pettitte vs Harden today…should be a good one
” re:Jackie Robinson. I don’t want to start any heated arguments”
why not mel? jackie robinson was a walking talking heated argument. there’s nothing wrong with that. injustice needs to have heated discussion about it to get the injustice out there in the public eye. look what happened to imus. blogs and media discussion are what made that happen.
2007 AL East Champion Red Sox
“Quote From Pessimist Redsox Fan in Espn Boards
“With BJ Ryan on the shelf and the Yankees actually looking worse than ever, this is going to be a laugher. We should win the division by no less than ten games. The AL Central will provide a formidable challenge in the playoffs; however, it’s a good thing we get to play in the East – we should easily win best record. If we don’t win 105 games I’d be shocked (unless there are injuries)”
The yankees certainly don’t have the worst starting rotation in the league. That’s a given. Hell, Im not even sure I think the cross town NY team has a better pitching staff. But at this point I’m concerned about NY in the playoffs. We can’t assume the Wildcard team will come from the AL East. And if that’s the case Ny’s going to have to beat Boston in the East. And I’m not sure that’s a given. There’s a lot of questions about both team that will contribute to their success, but I can certainly see ways the season plays out and Boston wins the East.
JT, I am so glad I wasn’t drinking anything when I read that Red Sox fan quote.
i can’t even believe some of the stuff i am reading in this thread.
jackie robinson would hate sabermetrics? why, b/c you do??
this is a such a retarded comment i don’t even know where to begin.
no, Jackie Robinson would love sabermetrics, b/c his numbers would make sabermetricians drool and he would be paid accordingly.
some of you people have no idea what sabermetrics are and are embarrassing yourselves and this blog.
you are tossing out ridiculously baseless accusations of racism.
“jackie robinson was college graduate from an outstanding school,but if he were alive and in his fourties or fifties today, he’d a tough time getting a gm job. ”
how do you know he would be a good gm? b/c he was a great player?
i’m not even sure what you are trying to say.
“Moving a runner over, making a throw to nail a runner, working a good AB before getting a key hit, cutting a ball off in the OF keeping a single from becoming a double. Those are the type of things that don’t show up if you just evaluate the game through numbers.”
umm, yes of course they do. “nailing a runner” shows up in defensive metrics. as does “working a good AB before getting a key hit”.
these things don’t show up in the NON-SABERMETRIC type stats like RBIs and fielding %. but this is EXACTLY what sabermetrics is trying to do. digging deeper into the numbers to get a more complete idea of a player’s value.
sounds like you are a sabermetrics fan. congrats.
“Its why so many younger baseball fans miss out on the game. They are too wrapped up in fantasy leagues and are too numbers-crazy.”
BTW, fantasy stats are NOT sabermetrics.
don’t equate fantasy baseball with sabermetrics. they are completely unrelated.
hmmm- glad i got your attention. you’re one of the ones i was thinking of when i wrote my comment. read it again when your blood pressure goes down and you can think straight. the only people who are an embarrasment on this blog are people who are closed minded.
so what’s your opinion of” firejoemorgan” ? let’s see where you stand on the issue.
i’m not hiding behind an anonymous username unlike a lot of people. i don’t like to publish it normally, but jackie robinson day makes that an exception. before you start name calling, click on my usename so you can see who you are attacking .
it’d be nice if you’d do the same.
if this sounds like i’m challenging you, your comprehension is improving.
Melky rocks. Abreau can’t catch a fly ball and Damon has no arm. Matsui has lost a few steps and was not the best fielder to begin with. Melky can catch and throw the ball. His bat is coming around. I would worry about Stinkaveitch before I would worry about Melky.
Put Matsui at 1b? Makes a ton of sense since hes never played there before and do it in April. I’m sure after the Sheffield disaster last year that Torre is definately thinking of putting Matsui at 1b.
Especially after they all said they value defense at 1b and we have ground ball starters.
Ive read some dumb things on this blog but Randys rant might take the cake.
ok jake- fair enough. what’s your position on jackie robinson day?
what does firejoemorgan have to do with anything?
i don’t read that site. maybe i am missing something.
what’s odd is that Joe Morgan is very hostile towards sabermetrics, but he is exactly the type of player that sabermetricians LOVE. he is a sabermetric God.
“before you start name calling, click on my usename so you can see who you are attacking.”
please point out the name calling. never happened.
“jackie robinson was college graduate from an outstanding school,but if he were alive and in his fourties or fifties today, he’d a tough time getting a gm job. �
“how do you know he would be a good gm? b/c he was a great player?”
well hmmm, i think he was a really smart guy. does being a great player in addition disqualify him in your eyes?
Torre is also on record re Wright if Pavano can’t throw.
“well hmmm, i think he was a really smart guy. does being a great player in addition disqualify him in your eyes?”
huh? i am obviously missing something.
you are constucting a ridiculous strawman here. you have NO IDEA if Jackie Robinson would get a GM job today. and then you are saying he wouldn’t, based on the fact that Kenny Williams’ assistant hasn’t gotten one.
that is a strawman.
guess what, there are WAY MORE “non-sabermetric” GMs out there than “Sabermetric” GMs. the sabermetric GMs are in the minority.
black candidates may not be landing GM jobs b/c of racism or any factors, but i don’t think sabermetrics is the cause, and neither do you. DePodesta was fired and replaced with a non-sab GM. why didn’t LA hire a black GM?
who knows, but it wasn’t b/c of sabermetrics.
sabermetrics is an IDEA. it’s a tool
calling it inherently racist is like calling math racist.
“well hmmm, i think he was a really smart guy. does being a great player in addition disqualify him in your eyes?”
another strawman.
i never said that. i said just because he was a great player, does not mean he is therefore qualified to be a GM.
and no, i am not saying he isn’t smart either.
i am saying we have NO IDEA if he would make a good GM. NO IDEA. and we have NO IDEA if he would have even WANTED to be a GM.
i just don’t see your point at all.
“no, Jackie Robinson would love sabermetrics, b/c his numbers would make sabermetricians drool”
“what’s odd is that Joe Morgan is very hostile towards sabermetrics, but he is exactly the type of player that sabermetricians LOVE. he is a sabermetric God.”
you’re a smart guy ,hmmm, and you can see the logic of why joe morgan doesn’t like sabermetrics. you can also guess that jackie robinson wouldn’t either for the same reasons.
one of the reasons is that none of the sabermetricians are the same color as joe morgan. i think that gets his attention. i don’t why joe won’t read moneyball. it’s a good book and an easy read.
and don’t assume that everyone who’s statistically adept doesn’t see the connection i’m talking about between race and sabermetrics:
from gary gillette in an email to me:
“I spoke with the only two non-white people I saw in Toronto at the SABR convention. One is an African-American woman and past SABR president.
And I have an interesting idea. But I don’t have time now to discuss.”
the idea he was talking about was a scholarship fund for inner city kids to study sabermetrics and learn some math in the process. i told him i’d contribute if he got it going. would you be also interested? it’s not hard to get in touch with him.
many of you love the blog “fire joemorgan�. joe morgan did a pretty good impersonation of jackie robinson in his baseball career. i think jackie robinson would like joe morgan. i don’t think jackie robinson would like “fire joe morgan�.
Good. Lord.
Do you know why I like the blog FireJoeMorgan? Because its funny. They make fun of the guy because he says stupid things!!! Not because he is black!
I know its a radical thought, but people can say stupid things and its completely independent of what the color of their skin may be!!! AND you can call them on it and NOT be a racist.
ok, i guess i just disagree with the concept that sabermetrics is somehow responsible for the lack of opportunity in MLB for African Americans.
i think where we are disagreeing is that i don’t think sabermetrics is as rampant in MLB front offices as you do.
the lack of opportunity for African Americans in all walks of life is inextricably linked to centuries of racist behavior in America. to blame a movement that is only a few years old is completely unfair, IMO.
there are way more non-sab GMs than sabermetric GMs. this is not the reason that African Americans are not landing GM jobs.
same thing with managerial jobs. why have qualified African American managerial candidates been passed over for coaching jobs in MLB (and in the NFL) for years? certainly not because of sabermetrics.
that’s my only point.
anaconda,
1. i didn’t “bury” them after the first inning. i noted the pitching and defense. you’re going out of your way each post to prove how intelligent you are, i’d think you’d know the difference.
2. the “you’re a red sox fan” stuff is just stupid. grow up.
“Jake
April 15th, 2007 at 1:39 pm
Put Matsui at 1b? Makes a ton of sense since hes never played there before and do it in April. I’m sure after the Sheffield disaster last year that Torre is definately thinking of putting Matsui at 1b.
Especially after they all said they value defense at 1b and we have ground ball starters.”
At the time we were talking about this, it was October/ November. If they wanted to see how he could play there, he’d have a couple of months to give it a shot and see how he handles it. I’m not suggesting he would be a gold glover but they had the opportunity to try it out early on IF they wanted to and use ST games as a barometer of how he might do. That ship might have sailed for 2007 but 2008 could be a possiblity, depending on FA.
hmmm-
the system still gives the priviliged theo epstein the gm job in boston instead of david wilder/ wilder interviewed for that job:
http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....elaunched/
i not saying sabermetrics is rascist, but i am saying the system that values it is.
giambi can’t stay healthy all year playing at first base. that’s as big a concern as, if not bigger than, the defensive aspects of his game. it’ll play just as much into the decision. i really don’t think we’ll see him much over at first this year.
i’m going to post a little less around here. the arguing with anaconda stuff is just plain stupid. i apologize if it’s been annoying for people to read. it’s certainly become an annoyance to me.
The Off the Facade blog reports that Britton is in the Yankee clubhouse, but doesn’t say who he is replacing.
Any news on this, Pete?
Randy, Theo Epstein helped get the Red Sox their first World Series title in almost a century. To say he was re-hired over David Wilder because of racism is complete lunacy.
Just heard that Pavano and Mussina are being DL’d.
reflaxion,
david wilder was a major reason why the white sox won the world series in 2005. please read the link to wilder before you talk about lunacy. why doesn’t the man have a gm job somewhere. the system is stacked against him, that’s why. to say theo got his first job on merit only is disengenuous.
Skippy – Guess that bad karma can reach all the way across the country. Thought the Yankees had those new, special physical trainers??
Britton called up
[quote]http://blog.nj.com/ledgeryankees/2007/04/britton_called_up.html
Accordintg to EdPrice of Star Ledger, Britton gets the called up.. Good News that Britton get called up. He deserved it.
Update: Carl Pavano (forearm) never got on a mound and Mike Mussina (left hamstring) cut short his side session after seven throws. Both assume they will go on the DL; no official announcement yet.
With the Yankees having used all 7 relievers last night, Chris Britton has been called up from Triple-A Scranton. Britton just walked in the clubhouse; the guess here is Carl Pavano will go on the DL. [/quote]
Bad News for Pavano and He will be headed for Dl again..
They have those new, special physical trainers; we’re just not sure what they’re training them to do. Maybe they’ve been learning how to give effective Power Point presentations or something like that.
reflaxion- from that article
“Michael Hill, the Florida Marlins’ assistant GM the last three seasons, also is expected to be interviewed in the coming days. Hill, named to Black Enterprise magazine’s 2003 Hot List of African-American executives under age 40, is a celebrated 1993 graduate of Harvard, where as a senior he was elected class marshal, led the football team in rushing, and captained the baseball team.’
doesn’t that look like gm material to you? looks like he was involved in a world championship too.
Randy, I think it’s pretty presumptuous to say how Jackie Robinson would feel about some current baseball issues (as well as tongue-in-cheek websites about certain baseball commentators’ statements), don’t you agree?
That’s a horrible argument, Randy.
The link is from 2005. This was after Theo “got his first job.” Theo Epstein had already earned his merit. The entire city of Boston loved the man – he was a saint in their eyes. If he wanted the job, there was no way it would be denied him. Everyone knew this.
Epstein over Wilder in the 2005-2006 off-season had absolutely nothing to do with race. Play the race card all you want, but it just doesn’t apply in this case. I don’t know why he doesn’t have a job with another organization, but in this instance, you are just wrong.
I’m trying to keep my composure here, but I find it sickeningly disrespectful to the outstanding people who fought so hard in the equal rights movement to see others disregard every other factor involved and cry “racism” just because some of the people involved happen to be black.
Have a link to Pavano and Musinna on the DL?
swo,
i thought about it before i said it and i prefaced it with “i think” . click on my username and you’ll see my opinion is not based on a lack of experience with african-american baseball players. i’ve been in the same clubhouse that jackie robinson started out in( no big deal, just as a bullpen catcher). i’ve talked with people who knew him. i’ll go out on a limb here because it’s jackie robinson day and that’s what it’s for. it’s for standing up and taking some chances to point out the still existing problems.
if i wouldn’t have done it today on this blog, who would have?
Can Yankees placed Doug Mikenktwitchz in 60 disable list? Unable to perform in clutch situations , He’s horrible hitter.
I hope Yankees promote and give a chance with Eric Duncan.
“I don’t know why he doesn’t have a job with another organization”
reflaxion-
sure you do.
it’s also the same reason that michael hill doesn’t either. it’s also the same reason that there are only two gms of color in baseball.
“if i wouldn’t have done it today on this blog, who would have?”
I thought Jackie Robinson day was about how far things had come since the days of Jackie Robinson. Sure, they’re not perfect, and guess what.. they probably never will be. But there has been progress, and spending the day ranting about things that haven’t changed yet, well isn’t it also constructive to acknowledge what has? There is injustice everywhere, not just in baseball.
“I thought Jackie Robinson day was about how far things had come since the days of Jackie Robinson”
angel- that’s part of it. celebrating his legacy is important, but it’s also important to point out robinson would not be happy with the small number of african-american players, managers, and general managers that are in the game today. he would be outraged.
what is your position on the number of african-americans in these positions today?
But it’s the exact reverse in basketball, though I’m not really sure what that says about either sport, lol. Maybe they just naturally gravitate towards basketball and not baseball as much? Maybe high school/college recruit programs? I dont know. I do find it interesting that it seems to be that way though and that is worth discussion.
RANDY, great post.
As a person of color, all this focus on the decreasing number of African-American players seems like a little bit of a tempest in a teapot. For starters, there’s a finite number of “jobs” in Major League Baseball, and with the influx of Latin and Asian players, there are probably fewer white players than in decades past too. There’s actually MORE diversity in baseball now than when I was a kid in the ’70s.
I do realize that young African-American kids in inner-cities aren’t growing up with baseball, and that’s a shame. But it’s not because they don’t see black players on the professional field. Unlike the reporters writing these stories, black American sports fans don’t distinguish between black people from, say, Chicago, and black players of African descent from the Spanish-speaking Caribbean. When I was kid, I wanted to be Rod Carew. I didn’t matter to me that he was from Panama. His skin and hair looked like mine.
And, when I look at the Yankees today, there are more players of African descent on the team than ever before. Who cares that their African ancestors were brought to The Dominican Republic or Cuba instead of the U.S.?
Anyway, all this navel-gazing about the decline in *american* black players is a convenient way to take the focus away from the real problem (the alarming paucity of blacks in management), which you did so well to articulate in your original post.
Honestly, I dont know whether you can measure the amount of people that are coaches, GM’s etc as being enough or not enough. Maybe its proportionally in direct correlation to the amount of african american players that have played MLB over the years? I have no figures on that. I dont agree with affirmative action approach either though. I think thats a step in the other wrong direction, kind of an overreaction to an inequality. I think the best qualified person should get the job – regardless of skin color. I will say however, and this is just an observation – that it was interesting to observe how long it took Willie Randolph to get a managing job, and observe that it took Joe Girardi far less time before landing his first, epsecially the amount of experience that Willie had. I am not saying that race had anything to do with, but it is an interesting observation. It could just be a timing/availability thing too.
angel-
people all over baseball and the media have been trying to figure out why african -american kids don’t play baseball. it does take up a lot of space and money for equipment so it’s not an ideal inner city sport though it could be with appropraite funding. we’re not going to find a solution today ,but at least we’re talking about it. that’s a start right.
howard bryant , the excellent african-american sportswriter, says that the draft itself is a major problem. i didn’t quite understand that, but i haven’t had time to look closer to what he is saying. getting all these ideas out there is what’s important. if enough people of all colors take part in the disussion, it can only help make things better. it doesn’t matter if it’s a heated discussion. it’s important enough to argue about.
A little addendum to my post:
I’m black and I like Joe Morgan—and sabermetrics.
Joe Morgan reminds me of a one of those blowhard uncles that everyone has. He’s always full of advice about the kind of woman you should marry, the kind of car a real man drives, etc. No one does it the way he his contemporaries used to do it… You know the schtick… There’s a lot of (unintended) comedy *and wisdom* mixed into his hot-air rants.
On sabermetrics: I studied economics, so I’m all for apply a little more rigor to judging baseball talent–especially when it means that more of *my* hard-earned money is filtered to these players in the way of inflated ticket sales, etc. I don’t believe in making sabermetrics the sole means of identifying talent. So, maybe there’s room on management teams for statisticians and the more old-school scouting types.
“RANDY, great post.
As a person of color, all this focus on the decreasing number of African-American players seems like a little bit of a tempest in a teapot. ”
thank you for the help in saying what i was trying to say and taking it further and saying it much better.
“Anyway, all this navel-gazing about the decline in american black players is a convenient way to take the focus away from the real problem (the alarming paucity of blacks in management), which you did so well to articulate in your original post.”
i loved rod carew also. i can stiil imitate the open stance, the flat bat, and the relaxed hands.
it’s very difficult to talk about this issue of a lack of blacks in management because it gets so emotionally charged as you saw today, but it’s all worth it when someone like you comes out with words of clarity.
i didn’t want to get into the difference between latin and american players of color because it was a tough discussion as it was. as you state so clearly, that’s not the biggest issue. the real problem is the lack of blacks in management. that was my main point also.
thanks again for the back up. if you click on my username,you can get my email address. if you ever have any other thoughts on this let me know. you say it a lot better than i ever will.
one irony of the discussion today was that i have always liked stats and numbers. i’m just against one class of people using statistical analysis as the gold standard for baseball knowledge. even though joe morgan annoys me sometimes when he says the big red machine is better than the ’61 yankees, i respect him totally as a knowledgeable baseball person. i like some sabermetrics too( i don’t think it’s always sophisticated statistical analysis), but i just don’t want it to be in control of baseball. experience is another form of knowledge. just as valid. maybe more so,but put the two together and you have a winning team. that’s why i do wish joe morgan would read moneyball. it’s really no big deal as he would find out.
i took an extreme position today to push some buttons and get the discussinon going. it worked to say the least. some teams that have gone totally sabermetric haven’t done well like the dodgers with depodesta. the red sox have run into problems and they know it so they are trying to get more balance. toronto has had it’s issues. some yankee fans on this blog forget it was an african-american, bob watson ,who got the ball rolling(along with gene michael)on the 4 rings.
he’s one of only three or four gms of color ever in history.
to me it’s only natural that an industry like baseball with so much diversity in the players would have it in management. why it’s not there is to me the big question on jackie robinson day. the fact that all the baseball owners, but one, are white doesn’t help the situation.
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