Myers eats up innings; Abreu slumping
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A few random stats as you get through the afternoon:
Mike Myers has pitched 12.1 innings. He didn’t get to that point last season until June 13. He has volunteered to start a game if they need somebody and he’s serious about it. Now figure this out: lefties are 6 of 21 against Myers. Righties are 0 for 16. Since Myers came to the Yankees, lefties are 24-91 (.264) against him and righties are 11-65 (.169).
Jason Giambi hasn’t homered since April 19.
Bobby Abreu … yikes. He is 4 of his last 39 (a Mientkiewiczian .103) with no RBI, 13 Ks and 5 GIDPs.
Finally, I’m getting a lot of e-mail asking me how long Phil Hughes will be out. Nobody can say for sure. But consider this. When Mike Mussina strained his hamstring on April 11, the Yankees said it was so minor that he might not even go on the disabled list. Well, he did and he will be pitching for the first time tomorrow.
That’s three weeks.
Joe Torre and Brian Cashman said the injury was significant. Clearly Hughes has a large tear. He grabbed at it and limped off, something Mussina never did. Figure 4-6 weeks to heal up.
Then comes the whole process to build up his arm. Throwing off flat ground. Throwing in the bullpen. Throwing batting practice. Throwing 3 innings in a rehab game. Throwing 5 innings in a rehab game. There will be 3-5 days between all of those steps.
Add it up and you’re looking at another three weeks. In all, we’re looking at a 10-week process. If all goes well, Hughes could be back in the majors after the All-Star break.
That’s being optimistic. Considering his value, the organization will go very slowly with him. Leg injuries can lead to arm injuries and the last thing the Yankees want is a 6-5, 225 pound kid being afraid to push off with his legs and throwing with all arm.
July 31 against the White Sox would be my guess.
This entry was posted
on Wednesday, May 2nd, 2007 at 2:47 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
That’s an accurate prediction for a timetable Pete. I played collegiate lacrosse at a top tier university (meaning good trainers and facilities) and when I tore my hamstring, it took 6 weeks before I could return to action. Even then, I wasn’t 100% and I think if I hadn’t been so anxious to get back, another week or two would’ve helped greatly. Two different sports, but same “pop” and same type of injury. I just hope that when he returns, it’ll be to the bronx and not to scranton.
until they have an MRI its pointless to speculate on length your probably dead on with how the rehab assignement goes. Good news is it wasn’t his drive leg and if it was a major tear he wasn’t just walking off with a slight limp.
The All-Star break sounds about right. I don’t think it will go as far as you think though. I am guessing the first week after the break. July 12 in Tampa
I should add that regardless of what the MRI tells them anything before early-mid July is probably unrealistic. And on Myers its nice that he’s a team guy and obviously has shown a willingness to go out there and take one for the pen but how valueable is a lefty specialist that can’t get out lefites.
and now for something completely different
Casey Blake is listed as both the starting 1st ad third baseman for the Cleveland Indians. I know the guys a utility player but come one he can’t be two places at one!
in memory of a hamstring,
Cooper
I think you’re getting ahead of yourself with that 10 week estimation. We need to wait until the MRI and what the Yankee doctors say first.
How have they not fired the strength and conditioning coach yet?
I think today is a key day. Is there discoloration in the area? That could give you an idea of the severity of it.
I have had 3 hamstring pulls in my life. Each with varying degrees of severity. The first one, my worst pull, was discolored the day after the injury and it took me 6 weeks until I was at full strength. With the other two, I was 100% 3 weeks after the injuries.
I guess my question is this. When one says, “4 to 6 weeks”, is that 4-6 weeks before he can throw a pitch or 4-6 weeks before he is ready, counting his rehab pitching work (flat ground, starts, etc)?
Personally, if he is back by the Minnesota series at Yankee Stadium 4th of July week, that may be a good barometer, depending on the severity of the injury.
Plus, I have tickets for the 4th and 5th so, selfishly, I want to see him pitch. lol
Seriously though, its too early to speculate how long he is going to be out until he has the MRI. Until then, all we are doing is throwing darts and hoping we are correct.
Pete, any word from the Yankees yet as to who will take his place on the roster? I am hoping its Matt DeSalvo.
We already know what we have in Rasner. A limited guy, who can’t go deep into games, and can’t find the plate with any level of consistency.
DeSalvo has been excellent this year and he almost got the call last year when injuries hit the staff.
I’d like to see him get the start Sunday at the Stadium against Seattle and see how it goes. I believe its worth the shot.
You may be right, Pete, but July 31 is 13 weeks out. In your article for The Journal News this morning, you reported Hughes could be out 6-8 weeks. Has something happened since this morning to justify tacking on another 5 to 7 weeks, or is this indeed just a “guess”?
LOL @ Mientkiewiczian
I woke up this morning still feeling horrible about the injury to Hughes… I’ve had a great feeling about him and really thought we were about to see something special last night. The kid is the real deal, no doubt. They’ll take their time with him (as they should) and hopefully he’ll be back to pitch some meaningful games for us in August and September.
The silver lining is that we won’t have to worry about Phil racking up the innings and pitches early in the season, and we’ll have a fresh arm (and a hell of a pitcher) coming back for the stretch run and the playoffs.
We got a glimpse of the future last night. I’m in awe of the kid’s confidence and demeanor at such a young age. Pretty sure i’ve got a new favorite Yankee… Now where can i find a #65 jersey?
Hopefully it is shorter then the harmstring injury from brian bannister last year
uh i don’t think so. that’s a rather draconian view don’t you think? the 4-6 week estimate includes rehab assignments and the like. mussina was out 3 weeks, including rehab assignments. i’d be willing to bet he’s back before july.
Let’s not forget Moose is 38, while Hughes is 20. I’m not a medical expert, but I have a feeling that the recuperative abilities of a young man are much stronger than that of a middle-aged man.
The injury could be a blessing in the long run, since it will decrease his total innings pitched this year.
As a sox fan, I share your bummed out feelings…. but not too much (sorry, can’t).
Injuries happen, part of the game. It happened to the sox last year and now you guys. In the end – it is what it is.
Myers to start!? yikes. I’d get MLB.TV just for that!
Sorry Pete, no way he is out til July 31. I know you media types are pessimistic by nature, but cmon now. I would say closer to a week before the Break, or the series right after it depending on how he heals.
Also, going back to your thought that the Yanks are paying the price for Hughes comimg up early. I couldnt disagree more, yes he sustained an injury, but would the Yanks have any clue what the truly have without seeing Hughes’ performance last night on a Major League level. I dont even believe that was Hughes’ best stuff. He usually doesnt start to hum until the end of May and 3-4 starts into a new level. Now the Yanks know when Hughes does return they have a legit top-end Verlander-esque ‘06 type starter for the entire 2nd half without restrictions. It kind of makes Cash’ job a lot easier around the trade deadline.
Its a terrible break for the Yankees and Philly Franchise, but in the end I think will be a blessing in disguise.
New York Times is reporting as of 3:30 pm that Marty Miller, strength and conditioning coach, has been fired. The announcement has not been made publicly as yet.
To which I say, thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and this guy is lucky if he can get a job at Bally’s Total Fitness after this.
NEWS FLASH
Yankees Fire Strength Coach
Don, good point about the trade deadline.
just saw the article. didn’t know some players had already opted out of his program. Good riddance.
You think Cash went crawling back to the guy he fired for these clowns?
There’s definitely a couple things to consider here when comparing to Mussina’s injury:
1.) Age. Mussina took three weeks to recover from a minor tweak because he is 38. In fact, I think his hamstring was fine a week after he tweaked it, but he got out of his all-important rhythm and had to rebuild arm strength. His injury might be a blessing in disguise because now, perhaps, his velocity is better and he won’t get tired as much down the stretch, like Clemens did in his last full season.
2.) The time period they stated. Are they saying Hughes won’t even be throwing for 4-6 weeks, or does that include recuperation time? I’d say Hughes’ hammy could recover completely in three weeks, then take another three or four weeks to build back arm strength and confidence in his legs. The Yankees won’t baby him too much, if he’s throwing off a mound for 60+ pitches, at his usual 93mph velocity, and reporting no problems, they won’t just wait an extra week “just in case”. Cashman had a plan for his innings this year, and if he doesn’t meet them they’ll be right back where they started from next year, when he was supposed to be a staple in the rotation. Mussina took three weeks to be major league ready, not recover from his hamstring. Look for Hughes in 7 weeks, I’d say.
watching abreu last night, i don’t see anything terribly different about his approach except for the fact that he’s taking huge cuts up there and missing. he doesn’t seem to be seeing the ball well. i don’t know if it’s mechanical or if he’s just in his own head. probably a little of both.
i’m anxious to see how the yankees play tonight. i know they’re professional athletes and so we’re supposed to assume they’re beyond emotion, and they’ll just put last night behind them and play, but it’s got to be a blow to watch yet another starting pitcher drop, let alone the future of the franchise, who was out there throwing a no-hitter. i mean, that’s got to do SOMETHING to the team’s collective psyche.
it was hard not to let last night take the wind out of your sails. at what point do you just figure, maybe it’s not their year? we’re a month into the season and wang, moose, pavano, karstens, hughes, damon and matsui have all missed , or will miss, significant time. to say nothing of jeter and posada missing a game here or there, or abreu’s injury in spring training. it’ll be a real test to overcome this stuff, and if they want clemens’ help, they’d better get above .500 within the next 10 days. if he wants to play for a last-place team, he’ll stay in houston. personally, if the money’s the same everywhere, i don’t see how he’d pass up boston at this point, unless he has absolutely no desire to go back (and we know he has at least an incling, or they wouldn’t be in the discussion).
it’s just been a drag so far this year. even the good games go wrong somehow.
tejeda tonight and millwood tomorrow. tejeda’s a pretty good young pitcher, especially if he has command of his pitches. the kind of kid who could give the yankees trouble. millwood could either be lights-out or he could get roughed up. i’d like to see them take both games, but i think tonight’s is important, as i don’t expect an awful lot from mussina.
it’s tough not to be bummed out right now. i say this with no hint of sarcasm, i’ve got to hand it to those of you who’ve watched this season unfold so far and remain optimistic about the yankees chances. i’m finding that very difficult.
Wes, there were already #65 T-shirts with Hughes on the back at the Stadium last week. I didn’t really pay attention to the vendors, not sure if they were selling them or if the guy I saw with one on had it made himself. I’d guess the vendors wasted no time jumping on that one.
Thanks Matt. Here’s the link: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05.....ref=slogin
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05.....iller.html
Too bad it took so long.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05.....er.html?hp
yanks fire clueless strength and conditioining coach
They fired Miller? A step in the right direction. Now let’s see… who can we get to replace him?
Well, I think Jack Lalanne is still alive. Or how about Jake, you know, “Body by Jake.” There’s always cheesy TV commercial guy, “Fitness Celebrity” John Basedow.
WAIT… I GOT IT! RICHARD SIMMMONS! (Picture A-Rod Sweating to the Oldies).
Some thoughts –
1. I like what I read about Mike Myers. The guy volunteers to go above and beyond his job to help the team. I bet he would do a decent job for a few innings.
2. Why did the Yanks fire Jeff Mangold, the previous conditioning coach? In a story in the Times back in ST, neither Mangold nor Cash would comment on the reasons.
Peter – can you get us any information on this? Who will the new guy be?
WEll, I guess we now the answer as to whether or not Hughes worked with him at some point this year.
Hard to justify hiring a guy who hasn’t been in baseball in 10 years, watch approx. $100 million dollars of talent end up on the DL with hamstring injuries and think its just a “coincidence”.
Bring back Jeff Mangold. He never should have been fired in the first place.
kasey:
For what it’s worth, Abreu looks like he’s been pulling off the ball. I see him stepping out toward first almost like Ichiro when he swings. Keep an eye out for it. I think it is in his head now too, lots of big wild swings at bad pitches.
“Why did the Yanks fire Jeff Mangold, the previous conditioning coach? In a story in the Times back in ST, neither Mangold nor Cash would comment on the reasons.”
If that’s the case, obviously something must’ve happened and he’s not coming back.
Convenient scapegoat. Cashman and Torre are in CYA mode.
Bobby is lost right now. It happens. He is expanding the zone, swinging at balls out of the zone, very Un-Abreu like.
That’s baseball. If Damon was healthy and Melky was hitting, he could get lost in the shuffle.
But, with those guys hurt and struggling, and is dumb bunt attempts last week, it digs him into a deeper hole.
He needs a game like Cano had last night to break out. One game, and guys like Abreu get “right” quickly.
Well, that doesn’t rank as one of Cashman’s best decisions, does it?
As for Myers – nice to hear he’s a team guy, but no thanks to him starting. I like him as a mop-up guy, though, saving better arms for high-leverage work. Last night was a perfect game for him to pitch 1 2/3 innings. Heck, he probably should’ve finished it off, but that’s ok.
Kasey –
As far as remaining optimistic about their chances –
I’m not denying the problems. We all know what’s happened. But it’s still very early in the season, the players all seem to be playing hard and trying – even Myers the LOOGY guy is willing to do whatever he can – and the problems are all potentially fixable. And I’m not talking some “miracle”. That would be when you’re 5 out with six to play. The alternative is putting up the white flag now. I’m not ready to do that.
Abreu has looked “anxious” to me, for want of a better word. Almost like he’s doing the pee-pee dance while waiting on pitches. I’m not trying to be funny – that’s really what it looked like to me, at least last night. Anybody else seeing this?
Hughes Injury
For God’s sake, don’t let Pavano anywhere near him!!!!
from the times,”Miller had not worked in baseball for 10 years before Cashman hired him last winter. His previous job was director of fitness at the Ballen Isles Country Club in Palm Beach Gardens, Fla.”
to me the operative phrase is” before cashman hired him “.
cashman needs to bring his a game to the table if he’s going to be 100% in charge.he hasn’t done it this year. getting a stable of young pitchers who may or may not help you in 2-3 years isn’t going to cut it as the major plan for this year. he’s not far behind miller if he doesn’t get his act together.
Maybe Mangold didn’t say anything at the time because he was hoping to be invited to return to the pinstripes. He also had to consider that if he shot off his mouth, he wouldn’t likely catch on with any other clubs.
As for Cash, the less you say about why someone was let go, the less likely you are to be sued. Also possible that Cash was still negotiating some kind of settlement with Mangold.
i’m starting to think that maybe brian cashman isn’t such a genius after all. sure, he’s better than the alternative (the tampa “braintrust”), but that’s not saying much.
Marty MIller: I’m sorry about the hamstrings Darth Cashman, it’ll never happen again.
[after choking Marty Miller to death]
Darth Cashman: Apology accepted, Captain Miller.
Could it be possible that Mangold was linked to mlb’s steroid investigation?
Wolf:
True. Bobby’s feet are moving more than usual. He’s usually a two stepper while he’s waiting, but it seems like it’s gotten faster.
Kasey, I think even though Hughes went down last night, I doubt that the Yankees will bring it over into tonight’s game, specifically because it is Andy Pettitte who’s pitching.
Even though Giambi hasn’t homered in a while, I’m encouraged that his BA is up. The homeruns will come. Looks like, so far, he’s starting to settle in as DH.
Although one “silver lining” of Hughes’ injury (aside from that it wasn’t an arm injury) is that there will be no wear and tear on his arm, it also means he’s going to have to work up to regaining his arm strength. I hope they don’t rush the rehab and they let it take as long as needs to take. July 31st may seem outlandish, but even though he certainly has the stuff, do you want him back here too early, pitching with Spring Training stuff? I think Pete’s right — they will give this injury ALL the time it needs. You can quibble about the exact amount of time, but not the intent.
I’m just hoping that the next guy up will stay a while and it won’t be musical pitchers.
I don’t think this totally ruins Cash’s credibility, but you have to wonder what he was thinking hiring this guy who hadn’t been in baseball for 10 years and was a fitness coach at a Florida country club. I wish somebody could go back in time and read that part to Cashman out loud so he could hear how ridiculous it sounded before pulling the trigger.
Drive 4-5:
Very timely and interesting theory.
But my gut tells me that if he was a target or a potential target the Yankees would have gone further to distance themselves from him. And wouldn’t Giambi have been asked to testify about club employees in the Grand Jury a while back? If that was the issue I think Mangold would have been let go before this year.
Moreover, if Mangold was under suspicion, he wouldn’t have returned the call from the Times for the ST story. Lawyer’s orders, say nothing to nobody.
But stranger things have happened.
The most overused term in sports is “genius” when describing someone who works in the game.
They are human beings like everybody else. They make good decisions and they make bad decisions.
Nobody is a “genius”, especially those the media deems as “geniuses”.
At least they acknowledged the mistake now and got rid of the problem. Its better than being in denial and keeping the guy around all season.
Just a shame it took Hughes getting hurt to have to this occur.
Wolf:
Yeah, looks pretty silly. But that’s why I think Richard Simmons has a real chance.
Miller had nothing to do with Hughes’ injury as Cashman asked him if he had changed his routine since coming to the Yankees last week. He said no. Miller had nothing to do with Wang’s fingernail or Karstens being hit by a line drive. And Pavano? Please. And whoever told Mussina to do anything other than the way he wants to do it? That leaves Wang’s hammy and that happened, what, 7 weeks ago. But someone had to fall after Hughes did, I guess.
LMAO …… you rock, Murph.
On a positive note, Clippard pitched brilliantly this afternoon for Scranton (7 innings, 5 hits, 0 runs, 1 walk and 11 ks). So it is either Rasner, De Salvo or Clippard on Sunday. Probably Rasner, as they like experience and he has pitched several innings of scorelesss ball at Scranton as well.
Any new(s) on Pavano’s injury??
Matsui’s injury? On Miller. Wang’s hamstring? On Miller. Pettitte’s back injury? On Miller. He told Pettitte to take off his weight belt, which he never did before, and he hurt his back, according to Michael Kay.
I guess they could have waited until he blew out the entire team before they fired him.
No tears for Marty Miller. A disasterous hire with the expected result.
My prediction is August 21st against the Angels in Anaheim right by his hometown with all of his friends/fam watching.
“Then comes the whole process to build up his arm.”
This will probably come across as an unusually ignorant question (sue me) but here goes: When a pitcher has a leg injury aren’t there things they can do during the healing process and rehab that minimize the loss of arm strength?
Based on your timeline, the Yanks will have either signed Clemens or have a rotation of 5 healthy pitcher (ideally). Hughes will spend the rest of the summer in Scranton. He is great, he will be great.
it’s not a matter of going backwards towards old ways of doing things on any front for the yankees, whether it’s the front office or the conditioning coach. the yankees aren’t going back to a bunch of old guys who know the game in tampa being in charge even though they are important management team members. the yankees are a big business in the big business of baseball. george isn’t george any more. if cashman is going to be the man ,he needs to be part of a management team that is cutting edge. i’m really not sure who is in charge of the yankees. i’d say randy levine if i had to make a guess. gms are really below the money guys like him.same in boston with theo. he’s clearly under lucchino. the yankee are in a state of flux. we see it showing up in the won loss record, but the problems lie deeper. i hope they get their act together because the red sox are building a global brand and they have a young billionaire to lead them the next ten-fifteen years.
i think just because cashman is on the hot seat , it shows he’s not one of the ones really in control of the yankees. gms are important ,but they have their limits. the present crisis is probably shaking up the yankee hierarchy right to the top and defining the way things work. who knows, maybe that’s how the yankees will get their act together and it will carry right on down to the won loss record whiuch is what we care about.
That timetable is being very very generous.
We’ll know more after the MRI so speculation is just that. Speculation.
Toast –
The broadcasters (Singleton, Girardi and Murcer) were talking about this during the game. I believe they said that a pitcher could throw — “play catch” — and soft toss, but until the leg heals, they can’t really put anything behind the throws, can’t get the velocity, etc.
I’m thinking, and I’m probably wrong, that the soft toss pretty much just makes sure the arm strength doesn’t disappear altogether, but you have to have those rehab starts to really rebuild strength.