Reflecting on a wild night
-
- May
- 2
Just read through all the blog comments. Man, people are all fired up.
I hope we can agree on this: It was plenty cool to see Phil Franchise dealing against the Rangers tonight. I like to tell you guys that I root for good stories. I was rooting like heck for a no-hitter because that’s a great story.
It was sickening to see the trainer come to the mound in the seventh inning. Hughes is the perfect subject for a reporter because we don’t know too much about him yet. It’s a shame that process has been put on hold.
You know what was amazing? Whenever I’ve covered a no-hitter in the past, I always look for a defensive play to write about that may have saved a hit. There weren’t any of those tonight. Of the 11 balls Texas put in play, only three cleared the infield.
The subject of whether Hughes was rushed or not is moot now. Hopefully everybody agrees that he heals up soon and we get a chance to watch him try to complete a no-hitter later on this season. I would have loved to watch the end of his battle with Teixeira.
Here is my game story.
Meanwhile, did Ron Washington actually bat Victor Diaz clean-up the first day he was called up from the minors? And people give Joe Torre a hard time …
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on Wednesday, May 2nd, 2007 at 3:32 am by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
when Phil got taken out of the game I had a horrible feeling in my stomach, I was sad really lol, I wanted to see Phil get the no hitter, but hey he showed he’s the real deal and maybe he can get back on the mound and pitch in atleast AAA in a few weeks.
and on another note, Mussina is on his way back, we got a good pitching performance tonight from Phil, our lineup scored 10 runs, and Papelbon blew the game for the Red Sox, so it looks like things are starting to turn around for us.
Nice backpeddle.
I want an EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW with CASHMAN next. I have LOADS of questions for that washed up moron.
Hughes was definitely dealing. There wasn’t even a good play by the Yankees, simply because one wasn’t really needed. The ground balls were right at infielders (or Hughes himself) and the fly balls were right at outfielders. I don’t think a single ball was hard hit. None of the fly balls, none of the ground outs. Maybe a foul ball was hard hit, but that’s about it. Very unfortunate that we’ll never know what might have been. Who knows if he would have ended up getting it, but the way he was pitching, I’d be hard pressed to figure out where he could have lost it short of a complete, flukey bloop single or something.
HERE’S THE THING FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOUNG 20 YEAR OLD PHIL HUGHES WAS ABOUT TO DO LAST NIGHT.
MLB Rookie No-hitters
American League
Wilson Alvarez 08-11-1991 Chicago at Baltimore, 7-0
Mike Warren 09-29-1983 Oakland vs Chicago, 3-0
Jim Bibby 07-30-1973 Texas at Oakland, 6-0
Steve Busby 04-27-1973 Kansas City at Detroit, 3-0
Vida Blue 09-21-1970 Oakland vs Minnesota, 6-0
Bo Belinsky 05-05-1962 Los Angeles vs Baltimore, 2-0
Bobo Holloman 05-06-1953 St. Louis vs Philadelphia, 6-0
Bill McCahan 09-03-1947 Philadelphia vs Washington, 3-0
Vern Kennedy 08-31-1935 Chicago vs Cleveland, 5-0
Charlie Robertson 04-30-1922 Chicago at Detroit, 2-0
National League
Anibal Sanchez 09-06-2006 Florida vs Arizona, 2-0
Bud Smith 09-03-2001 St. Louis at San Diego, 4-0
Jose Jimenez 06-25-1999 St. Louis vs Arizona, 1-0
Burt Hooton 04-16-1972 Chicago vs Philadelphia, 4-0
Don Wilson 06-18-1967 Houston vs Atlanta, 2-0
Paul Dean 09-21-1934 St. Louis vs Brooklyn, 3-0
Jeff Tesreau 09-06-1912 New York at Philadelphia, 3-0
Nick Maddox 09-20-1907 Pittsburgh vs Brooklyn, 2-1
Christy Mathewson 07-15-1901 New York vs St. Louis, 5-0
Just watched the mlb video. Couple of observations:
1. Someone should be fired for shrinking Kameron Loe’s cap & uni on game day.
2. Texas really, really, really hates A-rod. It’s nice to know that Yankee fans aren’t the only one to boo him. The only difference it’s a sign of respect when others do it.
3. When Giambi got plunked, I almost expected him to giggle like the Pillsbury Doughboy.
4. The Rangers announcers were almost reverential in their comments, only deviating to get their digs in against the Yankee fans. And of course the “contract” came up.
5. Phil Hughes. WOW. That was like previewing a blockbuster movie that won’t come out for who knows how long, and you can’t wait to see it.
6. Why was he so dominant tonight? Determination. I’m a firm believer in “you have to see it to achieve it”. I think Phil foresaw everything tonight but the 3 walks and the pulled hamstring.
7. Dude just shaved 5 ER off his ERA. Tough luck with the injury, but the silver lining is that he probably saved his arm in the process. lol.
8. Pete: Please warn Phil to NOT answer any calls or text messages from Paris Hilton. She is much more dangerous than an early call-up to the bigs.
Let’s all pray phil franchise heal up soon, he is in Major league level to stay..
Nice job by Cashman hiring this new training staff. Its always good to fix sometihng thats not broken.
I guess Hughes is just another incidence where Peter is showing a lack of logic. If Hughes had a no hitter going in front of 4,000 fans in Scranton, don’t you think he might have had the same impulse to overpitch a bit? How is he going to learn to deal w/ major league stress pitching in wht you admit is a less stressful environment.
For any willing to think clearly what last night proved is that Hughes was supremely ready for the majors. He was dominant. Having him stagnate in Scranton would serve absolutely no purpose. Like he couldn’t do any conditioning between starts while pitching with the big team
It’s really hard to understand how an intelligent person can consistently exhibit such faulty thinking
Red Sox bias perhaps??????
This season’s DL has reached Twilight Zone proportions. The long ago lost technique of pitchers finishing in a full fielder’s position when coming off the mound, cost Karstens. AND trying too hard hurt Hughes, in the defining performance of his young career. I haven’t been on a baseball field in a uni or just playing for a long time. BUT I know I could motivate & teach these players something: baseball. Not the stat driven, poseball most of them show up & enact.
AS for NYY haters? root for your own team, not against one. It’s feeble fandom.
Just like to say what a great job you are doing Pete. I’m sure there are a lot of us that look in several times a day without actively contributing but you can be sure you are appreciated by many.
Looking forward to my first trip to the US and Yankee Stadium in June.
The one thing about that Hughes/Teixeira battle.
Battle is far too strong a word. Hughes made Big Tex look foolish all night, and there was nothing to indicate that was changing.
Peter, first off, thanks for running an awesome blog. You’re the only writer I know who gets “blogging,” and seems to enjoy interacting with the readers. It’s very appreciated.
As for Hughes. Wow. This kid is going to be phenomenal. Check that. He already is phenomenal. The kid was dealing, and it’s been too long since we’ve seen a Yankee pitcher deal like that.
The silver lining? Well, 4-6 off for a non-arm related injury seems, by my scientificological calculations, to put him in line to come back in mid June to early July. He’s only thrown about 30 innings this year so far. That leave about 150 innings in his arm, according to what the Yankees want to do with him. At 7 IP/start, that’s 21 starts (proabably closer to 23-25, I cannot see him averaging 7). Seems like that’s just about 5 starts per July, August, September, with enough left over for him to be strong for the post-season.
So long story short – he’s young and hurt his hammy (which stinks), but not his arm (which rocks). He’ll bounce back, and not have to shut down after 6 innings each start.
Yanks get Moose back tomorrow. So Wang, Pettitte, Moose and Igawa start to line up. Let Rasner or DeSalvo or someone else from SWB show what they have in that 5th spot, and they become a nice long man once Franchise comes back.
We got a treat last night. It stinks that it ended the way it did, but man, props to Cash for holding on to this kid!
so this is how our season is going to go . every time we get the ball rollin ‘ – it pops . phil of the future has a no hit bid into the senventh and not only gets a pulled hammy but a POPPED hammy which is the worst . so this is it . a slight bit of hope dashed away .
DeSalvo has a 1 ERA and should take Hughes place in the rotation.
He was dealing so well he wouldnt have got to 100 pitches.
If the Yanks didn’t have bad luck they’d have no luck at all this year… It was painful to watch Phil wince in the dugout.
Also, I was talking to my trainer this morning, she said that using the giant rubber bands and doing lateral exercises is the way to prevent hamstring injuries. Didn’t the new Strength and Conditioning Coach get rid of those rubber bands for the Yankees? One or two injuries is a fluke, this many – and many the same – is a trend.
We’ve lost 5 starting pitchers this year FIVE!! Man is this team snake bitten right now.
As for Mike taking 4 weeks to come back, remember he is older and might not heal as quickly as Phil. Hopefully Phil is a quick healer and will be back soon. Phil has shown he belongs. He absolutely dominated them. THey looked like fools up there. He was just playing catch with Jorge. You can’t even point to one great play by the fielders they were all routine.
Here’s to a speedy recovery by Phil.
Pete- How much blame can we really put on the strength coaches? Wang and Moose are fair, but was Phill up long enough to say it was their fault? Also, Kartsens broken leg can’t count against them, and Pavano is…to put it politely a cat. I am sure some blame can be given, but how much do you think is fair?
“Next time, and hopefully there is a next time, he will throw the pitch the right way. ”
Pulled from the previous entry. You know, I think there might just be a next time, Peter. I generously assume you don’t write this sort of crud in your newspaper articles. (I wouldn’t know.)
Mel- About the contract, the Texas announcers made a good point. They basically said if you don’t want him (or any other player) to have those options then don’t give it to him. And don’t whine about it when you do give it to them and they use it.
Pete got a good shout out from Rob Neyer on ESPNs blog.
Heres the small article for non insiders. And remember hes a big time Yankee hater and even hes saying not to worry:
If the Yankees fail to reach the postseason for the first time since 1995, the moment we remember might be this one: Phil Hughes is 70.4 percent into a no-hitter, when he feels something pop. For 6 1/3 innings, he was exactly what the Yankees so desperately needed. Or seemed to so desperately need. (In the race last night to suggest Hughes’ injury is a “bad omen,” I think Hat Guy was the winner.)
Realistically, though? If Hughes is really going to miss four to six weeks, his loss probably costs the Yankees something like one win. Maybe two. Maybe none. There just isn’t that much difference, over that short a span, between Hughes and whoever’s going to pick up his starts.
Can you imagine the Yankees zooming into first place without a healthy Hughes? I sure can. They’ve outscored every other team in the American League, and their run differential is fourth-best in the AL. One certainly can imagine a starting rotation that includes Chien-Ming Wang, Mike Mussina and Andy Pettitte doing pretty well, or at least well enough. The bullpen’s loaded with question marks, of course, but if you’re a well-healed team, the bullpen might be the easiest thing to fix.
Meanwhile, it’s fair to wonder if Hughes would have been injured if he’d been pitching in the minors last night, which was the original plan. Peter Abraham thinks he wouldn’t have been, and that the “risk” — summoning Hughes to the majors so soon — didn’t pay off. I happen to agree that Hughes might be healthy today if he were still facing minor-league hitters. But what have the Yankees lost, exactly? Assuming he does come back strong in June, would they have been better-served if he’d spent these next four to six weeks in the International League? He might actually be stronger in September, having rested his tender young arm for a few weeks.
The Yankees and their fans must be frustrated. I’m frustrated, because I still haven’t seen him pitch. But it’s just a tender hammy, and he’ll be back before the All-Star Game.
Hey, Pete, just wanted to let you know you got some pub on Rob Neyer’s ESPN blog:
“Meanwhile, it’s fair to wonder if Hughes would have been injured if he’d been pitching in the minors last night, which was the original plan. Peter Abraham thinks he wouldn’t have been, and that the “risk” — summoning Hughes to the majors so soon — didn’t pay off. I happen to agree that Hughes might be healthy today if he were still facing minor-league hitters. But what have the Yankees lost, exactly? Assuming he does come back strong in June, would they have been better-served if he’d spent these next four to six weeks in the International League? He might actually be stronger in September, having rested his tender young arm for a few weeks.”
congrats!
well hey, on the bright side, i guess we dont have to worry right now about Hughes throwing too many innings this season with the injury, right?
Peter, I didn’t read through all the comments overnight, but I’m sure people are giving you a hard time saying Hughes got hurt because he was here. Truth is there is no way to know what would have happenned, guess that’s why I like the show Heroes so much, they have whole episodes showing you what would happen if something isn’t done differently today. But I digress.
Anyway it’s a heartbreaker to have him go out with a no-no, but at least he got his first win. Would we feel better if he gave up a few runs, maybe just slightly. I like the positive spin I’ve seen here from a few folks about how this will help protect his arm a bit but it still sucks. Anyway, Cashman is on Mike and Mike in a few minutes.
Pete,
As you know, I was against them calling up Hughes.
Having said that, I disagree with your premise that “rushing him” caused this injury.
Yes, he overextended trying to bury that curveball to Texieria. He could have done the same thing in Scranton.
Come on now, would you rather lose the kid to an injury in Scranton or have this happen, with the way he was pitching, with the parent team?
At some point, the Yankees have to take the wrappings off their pitchers. Especially their young pitchers. Its not like their philosophy is working.
It can be argued that the Yankees have babied their young starters so much, they never learn to how pitch in certain situations.
He was well under his pitch count.
Sometimes, **** happens.
I know this much. That kid showed last night, with proper care, he belongs in the major leagues.
He got hurt and that’s a terrible shame.
However, if he is back by the 4th of July, he has to stay in New York.
He’s too good.
Yes, they had a “plan” for him. I also think they didn’t plan for the entire pitching staff to go down with injuries.
Plans change. If they are careful with his pitch counts, and keep him away from Marty Miller’s program, there really isn’t any logical reason why he needs to see Scranton again, other than a rehab start or two.
He’s just too good Pete. You can’t keep someone that good down just to protect them from injuries.
You just handle him properly at the major league level.
If they can’t do that, then George needs to find people who can. He’s just too good to keep down any longer.
SJ44-
You said what I was thinking. Thanks.
I’ve been thinking MLB and especially the Yanks need to scout around for new stretching routines for their players. I would suggest they start by talking to the NBA where the hamstring stretch is a 2 man operation.
SJ44, I 100% agree with what you said. Glad to see someone who can adjust their opinion based on new facts, I think that is a sign of intelligence. In fact I hate it when politicians try and say, “look how smart I am, I never changed my mind”. Good job.
I woke up this morning (mind you a little delirious after hitting snooze a dozen times each on 2 different alarm clocks) with that feeling you have after a long night watching them lose the World Series or after breaking up with a girlfriend, just not wanting to think about it and hoping it’s not real.
A little dramatic (again, delirious), but the only coherent thing that came out of my hotel alarm clock, the only thing that wasn’t static… was “Hughes had a no hitter through 6 1/3.”
What a terrible ending to this kid’s night and what composure and confidence he showed in the interviews. This kid knows he’ll be back to do it all over again.
Anyone know if he’s ever thrown a no hitter in high school or anywhere?
I know this is one game and maybe we should temper our emotions (remember, Ted Lilly almost threw a no hitter once, gave up only 1 hit and lost 1-0… but obviously Ted Lilly was never expected to be the next Rocket), but you just get the feeling this is the result we can expect from him time and time again. His stuff is for real and so is his composure, confidence, and pitching intelligence.
Wow.
Man Cash can toalk forever without taking a breath, Mike and Mike usually break by like 9:16, he went until 9:20 on pretty much one question. Hysterical.
Well said SJ. Not that an injury can or should ever be seen as a blessing, but this injury basically should allow them to keep his innings down to where they wanted and to have him in the bigs learning more than he would in AAA. They were expecting he wouldn’t be called up till June or July, and I guess now that’s what will be the reality, just sucks it has to be this way.
To find a bright side and avoid thinking about how we could have potentially had games like this every week (no no hitters, but a solid pitching performance), you need only to look to the future and realize he may well be able to do this a month or two from now, and we will, God willing, be able to see this kid dominate for many, many years to come.
As good as Andy Pettitte has been for this team, when was the last time we got to watch someone this talented grow up before our eyes like the Sux fans got to watch Clemens? I for one am looking forward to it and hope he can stay healthy and confident and dominate the hell out of this league the way we all think is possible.
Again, wow.
What exactly did Cash say on Mike and Mike?
My prediction – we get good enough pitching from our starters and whomever we use to fill in the holes between now and July get back to .500 and stay there, hanging in the race just a couple games out of first.
Come July, Hughes returns, Peter gets a great story with one of those timeless photos that will be shown for years (and blown up and framed in my home office) of The Rocket and Baby Rocket talking pitching, mentee listening intently to mentor, with The Stadium as the backdrop. And together, the two of them help get us back over the hump and where we belong, in first place with a serious run at the WS (and victory a couple months later).
Jeff NJ,
I was listening too. Cash spent 15 minutes talking about nothing! Mike & Mike do a boring interview, why didn’t they ask him who is Hughes replacement, a top prospect or Rasner,..?
Mike & the dog are going to ask Cash 10 questions and wont beat around the bush.
Phil Hughes, World Series MVP, Josh Beckett style. There, I said it. No pressure Phil.
way to go firing the training staff cashman. oh and btw “phil franchise” dumbest nickname ever…
What’s been going on in Scranton, is anyone else about ready to step up in Hughes place over Rasner? Give another kid a shot for a couple games and see what happens?
Marty Miller has a tavern on the Upper West Side called “The Pulled Hamstring.”
No barstools, just wheelchairs.
Happy Hour special today: $2 dollar shots of cortizone.
Anyway, I’m really disappointed I didn’t get this game on TV. I listened to it on the radio and watched that live play-by-play thing on mlb.com.
I didn’t turn the game on till about the 5th, a just noticed that it was a shutout. Then I noticed that there were no hits in the Rangers’ column, checked to see that Hughes was still pitching, and starting getting excited. I’m so disappointed I couldn’t watch the game and see how he was doing. It sounds like it was a pretty blow-out performance.
Hopefully the Yanks will just take this and keep on trucking. They really need a good month here.
One’s guys opinion I would like on Hughes is Jim Kaat. I wish he was still around doing the games because I respect his opinion about pitching. Would he say that Hughes was rushed and this injury is a result of that like Pete has said? That this injury wouldn’t have happened in AAA? I think not, but I’d like to hear him say it.
Matt DeSalvo!
can i get Mike and the Mad dog on the internet anywhere or not until after it’s done?
Of course, I’d also be interested in what Kaat’s thoughts are on Hughes as a pitcher and what his future holds.
Mike & the Mad Dog does stream on the internet. WFAN.com
I love this kids interview, you can get the podcast here:
http://wfan.com/pages/223566.php
Q: in only your second start, how much did you know you could come even close to a game like this
A: I knew I had this in me, just a matter of doing it.
CONFIDENCE.
Threw a perfect game in high school (only 7 innings though).
Proceed carefully, Mad Dog is going to be giddy today..
We’ve never seen a pitching prospect this good come from the Yankees farm system before. Or at least I haven’t. The only guys in the last twenty years who even begin to get up there are Leiter, Pettitte, and Guidry and none of them have/had the type of potential this kid has.
any idea when that interview is gonna be on (m & md’s 10 questions…)?
At this point, whether he would have been injured if he were still pitching in Triple A is moot because he clearly shouldn’t be pitching in Triple A. He’s better than that level. He needs to be in the Big Leagues to get better.
The idea that you hold him back because he “might” get hurt because he has to try harder is just really dumb.
Who cares if the Yankees spent “months” on “research” to develop a plan for Hughes. He threw 6.1 no hit innings on the road against a lineup that includes Teixeira, Blalock, Young, Lofton, Kinsler, etc. He belongs in the Big Leagues.
Arguing that he wouldn’t have been injured pitching to “Timo Perez” in Triple A is insane. He’s got nothing left to learn at that level and you have to bring him up anyway at some point. If over enthusiasm led him to strain the hammy, it could have just as easily happenened or July as it did in May.
You’re just dead wrong, Peter. Hughes doesn’t belong in Triple A and he made that quite clear last night. His performance should have silenced everyone on that point.
Cashman, I have learned, does have that special way with words — stringing a bunch of them together, sounding really intelligent, but at the end of the day you realize he’s given nothing away.
Last night, I was flipping back and forth, and when I flipped into the 3rd inning and saw no hits, I figured Phil was doing great without me. So, the upshot is, I watched the offense and not the pitching, so now I’m watching the encore on YES. (I’m very superstitious this way — my husband just laughs at me!) Of course, I was watching when Myers gave up the hits/run. So, ya, see, it’s my fault the no-no went bye-bye.
Pete, after Hughes’ first start, you wrote the following:
“This kid still needs to learn how to pitch with men on base, how to get ahead and stay there and how to hold runners. That’s why they have the minor leagues. He has no business at age 20 being in the majors.”
Injury aside, would you agree that Hughes has now demonstrated he belongs in the majors?
So assuming we don’t get a rainout this week, who starts on Sunday? I’m assuming it would be DeSalvo, but I guess we can’t rule out Rasner or Wright. Guess the long shots are Clippard and Ohlendorf. Wonder if a 6th different rookie starting in one season would be a record?
First off, thanks Pete. You blog is definitely the best place for Yankees news out there and you’re doing a terrific job. Keep up the good work. Even those who criticize you should thank you for giving them a platform to speak from. Thanks.
Secondly, yes it sucks what happened to Hughes. It sucks even more because he was throwing beautifully and nearing a no-hitter. But come on guys, it’s a hamstring pull. It could’ve been so much worse. Hopefully, they’ll take this as an opportunity to build up his strength and flexibility (with competent trainers).
Lastly, we got the win. Our bats are getting hot. Anyone who thought A-Rod was in a slump should really get their head checked. The bullpen got a little bit of rest thanks to Hughes. Things are going to turn around. They already are.
I don’t think Hughes needs to worry about pitching with men on base or even with the bases loaded. He’s never going to give up a hit in the majors, seriously he got groundball double plays a few times yesterday when needed besides his best opportunity to pitch in those situations is with the Yankees, not with Scranton.
so did anyone else notice that Myers was brought in after the injurt, and proceded to give up the first basehit to a lefty batter?
mr. vegas,
what is your point…? you do realize that hardly anyone was on base last night…
I absolutely agree with Sverlin. I don’t think this was due to Hughes coming up too early. It was due to the fact he HAD A NO HITTER GOING INTO THE 7TH INNING. Forget whether it was his 2nd start or his 20th start — he had a NO HITTER GOING INTO THE 7TH INNING. Of course he’s going to reach back and throw his best.
Overall, a great performance by this kid. I am excited for his future and hopefullly — with it — the future of the Yankees.
A Serious Flaw in the encore program — to fit the game in, they skip things. Well, they skip innings where “nothing” happens, and in this case, it means they skip Hughes pitching a 1-2-3 inning. Oh, well.
Things are turning around after one game? The one game where we saw our 20 year old phenom pitcher go down?
I didn’t get this feeling in me gut when I was at the game on Sunday watching the Yankees lose 5/6 to our hated rivals – but I sure did last night after Hughes went down. So, now, things are not turning around. Things are getting worse – mentally and physically for this team. Cashman himself said it last night on YES – “its frustrating as hell” to watch all these guys go down like flies on the wall. When does the time come and you say to yourself, this just isn’t our year? After Pettitte injures himself tonight?
Their schedule doesn’t get any easier either. Their upcoming schedule in May and June is absolutely brutal.
Everything that could go wrong this year has – and it will now continue that way for the next 4-6 weeks.
In a literal sense, it is correct to say that if Hughes had not been called up he wouldn’t have gotten injured because every circumstance likely contributed. Of course, I think you could also argue the following:
1) If Hughes hadn’t gotten ahead 0-2 on Texeira, he wouldn’t have been injured.
2) If the Yankees hadn’t been playing in Texas, he wouldn’t have gotten injured.
3) If the Yankees hadn’t scored so many runs, he wouldn’t have been injured.
In other words, several factors converged to cause the injury. Of course, had he been injured in Scranton, it would be 100% correct to argue that he wouldn’t have been injured had the Yankees called him up.
Things are bound to turn around. 2005 was another year of bad luck, and we pulled the division out. Hughes wasn’t even suppose to be a contributor this year. If he’s out for two months then he’ll be back in early July which gives him three months to pitch for us. I think by all counts things are turning around. The offense picked up, we had a pitcher actually pitch, and the entire AL East around us lost a game to help get us a step closer. Its bitter sweet, but lets hope Mussina and Pettitte build on this.
Look, with the whole “we’re doomed vs. we have nothing to worry about vs. everything in the middle” argument – some people are pessimists, some people are optimists, some people are realists…. blah blah blah. None of it means anything.
Personally, I think you could realistically say there is a lot that has gone wrong and a lot that still could go wrong or just not get any better. Optimistically you could say things will get better because the potential to do so is ALWAYS there with this team. Pessimistically you could say too much has happened and we’re running out of options.
I’m not going to tell pessimists they’re not real fans, nor blind optimists they’re morons, but the fact is that things CAN get better, and whether or not they WILL get better depends on dozens of variables beyond all of our control, so why not just accept the fact that they CAN get better and freaking root for it instead of constantly reminding yourselves and the rest of us that it’s also POSSIBLE that they won’t??
I believe they WILL get better because the talent, heart, and desire is there and because it’s been done before (just about every year lately!!).
Thank you,Pete! Get well soon,Phil! Anyone else want Marty Miller fired?
Thanks Chris NY. I was going to post something similar.
Actually I think even with the Hughes injury there is a lot to be positive about now. The Yankees have won 2 of 3 and the offense looks to be waking up. They picked up a game on the whole division yesterday and hopefully can do some damage in these 13 games vs. Texas and Seattle. Wang is getting his legs under him and Mussina is coming back. Yeah we have a gaping hole in the rotation so we’ll have to break in another rookie (or bring back Rasner), but if the offense gets hot, it won’t matter who our starter is. The future is bright.
Here’s some realism for you:
After 12 straight games of Texas and Seattle, which you have to hope they go 9-3, here’s their schedule:
@ CWS for 3
@ NYM for 3
Home for BOS for 3
Home for LAA for 3
@ TOR for 3
@ BOS for 3
@ CWS for 4
This is their schedule for the next five weeks. Its very possible they could go 12-22 against the aforementioned teasm, excluding the TEX & SEA series, which I’m saying they’ll go 9-3 in.
I have them winning:
2/3 @ CWS
2/3 @ Mets (which is a stretch)
2/3 v. BOS (another stretch)
1/3 v. LAA
2/3 @ TOR
1/3 @ BOS
2/4 @ CWS
This would put them at 12-22 against those teams. Anyone else think they can do better than that?
12-22, plus the 9-3, plus their record now = way below .500 in the second week of June.
And to add to that, if you think they can do better than you must think they are going to do better than win 4/7 series, and the tie against the CWS.
I want to know how exactly. Tell me your plan.
By the way, if you want to read someone who writes about and understands baseball injuries, check out Will Carroll over at Baseball Prospectus. Here’s a taste:
Check out Will Carroll at Baseball Prospectus today for his take on the situation. I had a short e-mail exchange with him earlier and I tend to agree with his point of view, that Hughes showed he was ready. He was throwing a no hitter against a good team and demonstrated to everyone in the administration of the club and everyone in the Evil Empire that the kid is for real and he’s for real in a now kind of way. The injury was unforeseeable, unless you believe that we should have known that the training staff in the Bronx has been borderline to outright incompetent with the hamstring injuries to Mussina, Wang, and Matsui already this year, at which point you need to wonder if a mass firing of that team is in the making. He popped a hammy in his landing leg. He didn’t blow out an elbow, strain a shoulder or a back, or otherwise compromise his future. The fears of a structural injury which would forever alter his pitching mechanics were not realized. While the injury is unfortunate, it’s something that has happened to 3 other veterans on the team. It’s not a direct result of his age or his lack of conditioning.
Using the If thing is useless and a waste of time.
Hughes obviously deserved his call up. He no hit a fabulous hitting team in their own ballpark.
His stuff was great. His command even better.
There are no buts or ifs. Injuries happen. Lets be glad it wasnt an arm and he’ll be back in June. Rested and primed for a summer run.
The team will be fine in his absence.
Bill, based on your prediction for each series, I think you mean 12-10, not 12-22.
12W’s 10L’s + Current Record of 10W’s 14 L’s = 22-24 overall. That’s 2 games below, not “way below” .500.
Bad math buddy…
Someone tell Bill that planning and assuming wins and losses for games a month in advance is ridiculous.
Its conceivable the Yanks could go 25-5 the next 30 games too.
One thing about Hughes is he wont be able to stretch his arm out this year. He was going to throw 180 innings this year how many will they let him throw next year assuming hes not able to throw as many as last year.
Off topic: Carl Pavano was always hurt before his walk year when he sucked it up to win 18 games. Do you bring him back next year when hes pitching for his contract
Yes, sorry 12-10.
And if you think they can go 25-5 against those caliber of teams, most of them being on the road, your an idiot.
Chris, forget the math, you understand what I’m tryuing to say and that is this team is going to below .500 in mid June.
You wouldn’t sign off on 12-10 against those teams? Sure you would – even though its a reach for them to go 9-3 and 12-10, it sill puts them below .500. I’m not even playing devil’s advocate with their upcoming brutal schedule. I’m being very generous and realistic with it.
I see Bill is here to make some new friends.
I think if there’s anything we’ve learned this first month, is that anything can happen.
This offense is structured to carry even a mediocre pitching staff to a clip of about a .600 winning %. Our prob so far is that our SP hasnt even been mediocre.
in the 22 games against these teams, i could easily see them pulling out 12-13-14 games, because in reality, these other team’s starting staffs arent exactly lockdown, either.
they were historically bad the first month of the season, and they are still just 5 games back as we speak. i have no doubt they’lll figure this all out by the end of may.
Well Bill, we should all thank you in advance for being “generous”, then. I for one just do not know how to repay you. I hope I can find a way, but at this point I’m just coming up empty. I hope you’ll understand.
In the meantime, try not to toss words like “idiot” around so loosely. We’re talking about opinions here, not answers to calculus exercises.
Hee’s my point, Huuz: There are two basic concerns about having Hughes up in the majors at this time. First, are his baseball skills sufficiently developed? Second, does pitching in the majors present an unreasonable risk of injury? After Hughes’ first start, Pete suggested Hughes’ baseball skills were not yet up to snuff and he should be in AAA in order to perfect his craft. He also was of the view that having Hughes pitch in the majors presented an unreasonable risk of injury. In other words, he was opposed to Hughes’ pitching in the majors on both scores, ability and health. So my question was whether, in light of last night’s start, Pete would at least agree that Hughes is good enough, in terms of pitching ability, to be in a major league rotation.
BTW, if you want to quibble over what Pete specifically wrote, be aware that his critical comments about Hughes’ first start were not limited to the issue of pitching with runners on base. He cited the fact that Hughes had allowed 8 baserunners in 4+ innings, and wrote: “[H]e belongs in AAA learning his craft, not giving up three hits to Vernon Wells.”
Personally, I thought Hughes pitched a lot better than he got credit for last week, due to opening night jitters and the bad umpiring at first base. I would hope that, after last night’s performance, we could at least put to rest the notion that Hughes isn’t good enough to pitch in the majors, regardless of the issue of his health.
As I remember it, the Yankees were below .500 in June in 2005, too.
This time, they’re even better suited to go on a tear post-All Star break.
If Clemens is signed and Hughes returns to his dominant self, the weakest pitcher in the rotation could be Mussina, the borderline HOFer himself. The Yankees could go on 13-game winning streaks with that kind of rotation, and hurdle themselves into first place by September.
These hypotheticals are driving me crazy. I understand your point Bill, but you need to realize that you’re assuming a lot. Who knows what’s going to happen to these teams. Maybe one of their SPs will pull a hamstring like Hughes did. Maybe A-Rod will hit 14 more homers this month. Maybe Clemens will go to the Red Sox and the Yanks we’ll be doomed. Maybe he’ll come to NYC and we’ll be saved. Enjoy trying to predict what’s going to happen. All I know is that it looks to me like the team is turning a corner. If you don’t think so that’s fine. I’m not going to start predicting what they’re win/loss record is going to be in the middle of June.
I personally am not even looking for a long streak to occur, just would feel more comfortable into them settling in to win series… 2 out of 3, 2-3 out of 4… that ype of consistency, which is by no means beyond the talent of this team to do.
Bill, I certainly would rather be 46-0 than 22-24 at that point, but my point was that 2 games under .500 is not “way” under .500. It would still have us right in the hunt.
That said, I think we’ll pick up a couple games more than your prediction, not a dozen more, but a couple more and be at .500 after less than a third of the season, with 116 games to play. Again, I’d much rather have gotten off to a good start and be a more realistic 26-20 at the 46 game mark, but that didn’t happen. It’s FAR, FAR from over.
You could just as easily go out a few more weeks and make useless predictions of other series and predict 5 or more games over .500. It’s meaningless to “guess” what will happen series by series for the rest of the year. Anything can happen including sweeping the Red Sox and anyone else, as well as losing a couple to the Pirates or D-Backs…
Chris forgot to add bill’s 9-3 for this stretch in too, which gives you 10-14 now, plus the 9-3, plus the 12-10, leaves you with something like 31-27, which (i could be way off here) is a little over .500. Lets actually pretend we’re yankee fans instead of trying to figure out ways that this team we’re supposed to like sucks. yeah, we’ve hit a bad patch, but i’m a Fan, not a writer/analyst. i don’t have to be realistic. i’m allowed to root for the team no matter how crappy our pitching has been, and to have that confidence that we’re gunna win (as irrational as many of you may think that is)
Peter, you crapped the bed with your Hughes injury posts last night. Coming out opposed to the call-up is one thing, but to make a feeble attempt at an “I told you so” based on a freak hammy injury is a real stretch, which coincidentally is exactly what this team needs right now. So with that, stretch on Peter.
the truth is that no one knows exactly how to bring a twenty year old phenom safely into the major leagues because it happens so infrequently. that’s the reason you proceed with care and err on the side of caution.
i saw brien taylor pitch his best game in the minors striking out 14 in 6 innings at port charlotte against a ranger a ball team. taylor was 98mph and lefthanded. he had better stuf than hughes. the catcher couldn’t catch him and the hitters couldn’t hit him. there’s no connection between how both hughes and taylor got injured ,but it shows the minefield that young phenoms go through.
has anyone who wants to push hughes because he has proved get major league hitters out thought about how much money hughes gets if he has a career ending injury. the answer is his earning power is done. he gets nada. if a tennis phenom wins everything in the tennis world, they make a pile of cash right then. a baseball player who gives it their all and turns out to be a stud major league player gets the opportunity to get league minimum or close to it for three years. during that time if he has a career ending injury, he’s done. if i were hughes i would have my agent neogtiate a 2-3 million dollar annual contract before letting it all hang out this early in the major leagues. the kid need to be protected financially if he’s going to be pushed. cashman or no one else in the yankee organization would be ruined financially like hughes would if he’s injured permanently. the risk is all on him.
if he’s going to be expected to be a yankee savior, then pay him each year with a guaranteed contract that reflects his real value. he has the leverage to do it if he wants. why should all the risk be on him?
baseball needs a change in player’s financial rights in their first three years for this kind of situation.
I realized that after will, good point. And well said, this is what I was trying to say in an earlier post:
“Lets actually pretend we’re yankee fans instead of trying to figure out ways that this team we’re supposed to like sucks. yeah, we’ve hit a bad patch, but i’m a Fan, not a writer/analyst.”
If one is looking for a silver lining – and I sure am – this will keep Hughes’ innings down over the course of the year. Yes, it was exciting last night, but the Yanks shouldn’t have been counting on him this year. As has been correctly pointed out, the arm is just one part of being a ML pitcher. This injury may help in the long run, in that others will have to step up, and I really believe that they have the personnel to do this. Andy, Wang, and Moose have not yet had even one full turn in the rotation. Igawa gave us hope that he may be getting his act together, and that leaves just one more spot – Number 5 starting pitcher – to fill. I think that Rasner, DeSalvo, or someone else can fill that bill, and if not, then there’s this guy named Clemens. Phil Hughes was right – he is not going to be the Savior. A whole lot of guys have to fill that role, and they have the players to do that. They just have to “do it”.
Finally, Peter – I have been surprised that you’re able to churn out the words as well as you do, given how much you do write.
Quote Bill: “your an idiot”.
Dictionary.com will help you.
Randy, I don’t disagree that guys as good as Hughes or Cano shouldn’t have to wait to get paid when they perform well right away, they should get paid..
But, “he has the leverage to do it if he wants. why should all the risk be on him?” What leverage? He signed a contract and whatever the rules or contract languages are that keep young guys at or around league minimum their first couple years, he’s bound by it. He’s breaking into the majors and wants to be there, and it’s his job. It’s not like he could, or even would, say “I’m staying in AAA until you pay me.” He’s an employee, under contract, he has no leverage.
Also, I’m sure his signing bonus was not peanuts.
But again, I don’t disagree that they should get paid based on performance, not on years in the league. I’m just saying, no leverage…..
I don’t know what any of you are talking about.
The Yankees are about to go on the longest winning streak in baseball history. I’m guessing, say, 60 consecutive wins. Probably with half a dozen no-hitters, too. What the hell- Pavano’s gonna stub his toe on the first pitch of a start and demand to leave the game, and Henn’s gonna come in and pitch a perfect game. Seriously.
Relax. We’re a bunch of fans on the internet. It’s one thing to talk about your general feeling for how the next month is going to go, and even to make logical arguments to support that opinion. But let’s not start making nonsense mathematical predictions about games that are a month away.
Forget how far they are from .500. The Yankees are now 5.5 games out of first. Can they make up, say, three games over the next month? That seems conceivable at least, and it would put them back in striking distance of the Sox.
The rest of 07 will be an uphill battle for the Yanks, certainly. It’s not easy coming back from a month like this past April. But predicting what’s going to happen in a June series against Chicago is just silly.
Enoch, I like guys who go around blogs acting as Mr. Grammar.
What I’m trying to point out is that its not going to get any easier. You guys want to be optimistic and think they’ll beat up on those teams in May and June, then fine. But from what we’ve seen so far this year, you have really have no proof that will actually happen. They could easily go 8-14 in those games the way they’ve been playing, and that would be ideal considering the teams their playing.
Boston is a very beatable team, a good team, but a beatable team. I don’t care how many games they just beat us. We could very well sweep them then take 2/3 the same way next time around, and very well could have this past 2 weekends if a few things went our way instead of theirs, they didn’t walk all over us.
We get healthy, we return the favor, we regain the lead in the division.
“you have really have no proof that will actually happen”
PROOF??????
Bill, of course no-one has any proof of something that hasn’t happened yet. It’s called rooting for something that is POSSIBLE because you actually like the team and WANT it to happen.
I hereby prove that on June 15, 2007, I will stub my toe and yell “F#$#$.” How can I prove this? Because I have a toe and I have a bed and sometimes I stub my toe on it.
Like I said earlier, of course it’s POSSIBLE that we could lose some of those games, but it’s EQUALLY if not MORE possible that we’ll win enough to stay in it or get back to the top.
ROOT, ROOT, ROOT FOR THE YAAAAAAAAANKEEEEEEEEEEES
Boston is very beatable, but they do in fact have our number. Also, playing the Mets and Boston back to back in May isn’t a cupcake either.
But Bill, how do you know they arent going to get any easier? you dont know, I dont know, and there isnt anyone who can predict it.
The tides can very quickly turn on these other teams just as they have against the Yankees.
Like Pete mentioned last week.
They were 4 out on July 5th last year.
I dont think 5 games on May 2 will mean much in the long haul.
Every team has an injury portion of the yr. We’re going thru ours now. Boston will have to deal with it too eventually.
And Bill, no-one said it would be easy, of course it won’t. If it was easy, I’d be the short stop for the New York Yankees getting the hottest women in the world…….
It’s going to be an exciting season of ups and downs no matter what happens. Hopefully, we’ll come out on top and in the end say, wow, tough season. Glad I was alive to see 21 year old Phil Hughes (turns 21 in June or something) win Game 7 of the World Series with a perfect game. OR, just, wow, tough season, getting #27 was a long ride but I’ll be at the parade in NYC.
The proof lies in the fact they way they have been playing. I know there’s no proof in the future, but in teh past 4 weeks, there’s plenty to say this team could bomb in the next 22 games. Is it likely they will win every series against those teams? Highly doubtful with the way they’ve been playing.
They have our number?????? Bill, where have you been for the last 90 years?
They won 5/6 games, luckily we have 12 more to remind you that NO-ONE “has our number.”
It’s always back and forth with them. “have our number?”
C’mon man.
Peter, I am amazed at the angst over this.
You were and ARE correct 100%.
The Yankees PANICKED and threw this kid into a situation at MLB level, with MLB pressure, and this culd have been avoided.
Shame on US and SHAME on OUR FANS for ragging on you for being RIGHT.
Just look at this again:
@ CWS
@ NYM
BOS
LAA
Four straight with teams that are very good and that give the Yankees problems. Its definitely not going to be easy. I just feel like they need to come out of those four ahead, and with the way they’ve playing, it will be tough to think they’ll win ALL of those series 2/3.
Chris NY
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:51 am
And Bill, no-one said it would be easy, of course it won’t. If it was easy, I’d be the short stop for the New York Yankees getting the hottest women in the world…….
B-E-A-R-D.
Trust me when I say, I don’t think the Angels, Mets or White Sox look at their schedule and see the Yankees and think that’s a gimme. In fact most teams in the league think the Yankees are a sleeping giant who are always a tough out.
I hope the kid is alright, it would have been such a great story if he hit a no no but his overall health is more important of course, but ohhh so close.
Chris, they have our number this year. I’m not trying to live in the past here and hate when fans bring up what happened 90 years ago. No relevance for what’s going on right now. None. Except for the fact they took 5/6 from us.
They’re gonna win 20 straight!
No, they’re gonna lose 20 straight!
No, they’re gonna split it, 10-10!
Who knows what they’re gonna do? It could go either way!
Is that the gist of this conversation?
Whoever listens to someone like Bill needs their head examined.
The guy is just as depressing as they come. How does someone live with so much negative energy?
kurticus, good point
bill: who really knows, the Yanks could easily go 18-4 or 8-14 over those games. I don’t think you can even logically guess how a team is going to play over the stretch of 22 games?
What I would like is for the Yanks to get 1 or 2 games back in May and be within 3 games at the All-Star break of first in the division and wild card and go from there. Any team can go on a run in this league as teams have shown over the last 4 world series. If the Yanks are more than 8 back at the All star break I will panic then but not even really that much. You can never predict what will happen in this game. Are pitchers could all go down for the year or they could all come back and not miss a start who knows? Papelbons arm could break down again, or Beckett could pitch like he did after May last year (horrible)
Sometimes its fun to make predictions but making them to make a bunch of fans mad is a different story. Making a prediction that Santana will win the Cy is one thing but thinking you know how any team will fare over 22 games isn’t going to get you far here.
Like Chris said, it doesn’t matter if you’re and optimist or pessimistic, or equally the same, we want this team to win. However, the way they are playing right now, all the injuries, and all of the bad breaks, its hard to think positive forever. I’m sorry, I’m not one of those guys who is watching the last inning on Sept 30, when their 4 games out, and still thinking they have a chance or thinking positive.
Nick, very true. I’m not really panicking right now either. I’m just going to circle those games in May and June and see where we are then. If we are 8 games back, sure I will panic… It just seems like every one on here thinks they have a shot until the last game in Sept when their 4 games out.
How they are playing right now? They have won 2 of 3 and the offense is clicking right now. That may not be true tomorrow, but you would be better servced and probably healthier just cheering up a bit, drink the kool aid, it’s good.
How about this? Let’s root for our team tonight and hope they win tonight.
Now I understand why players and coaches talk about just trying to win games. They’re trying to be and play in the present. There’s only so much you can do to prepare for the future. The Yankees’ Plan B, Plan C, Plan D (ad infinitum) have all gone by the wayside. There’s nothing you can do about it expect play. We play tonight. We try to win tonight.
I doubt anyone could have predicted the Yankees would have 5 of their top 7 starters go down with injuries, have Matsui DL’ed, Damon hurt and start out 9-14.
To “predict” the Yankees aren’t going to do well because they are playing better teams (after these 13 games with Seattle and Texas) doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
Yes, they finished 1-5 against the Red Sox in those six games. They were ahead in every one of those games.
Just win 2 of them, which isn’t asking a lot, and they are 3-3.
This with an absolutely beat up pitching staff, an in game strategy-challenged manager, and a team fighting its own confidence, yet they were in every game.
Is it going to be easy? No. But, where is it written it has to be easy?
NOBODY in the American League, even Boston, are worldbeaters this year.
The Yankees just have to find a way to stay close until July 1.
Look at their schedule in July. They have 27 games, 16 at home, 11 on the road. The road games are as follows: 4 at Tampa, 4 at Kansas City, 3 at Baltimore.
If they can get healthy, and stay close, July is “moving month” for them. That’s when they can make their move.
If we are “speculating” about results right now, let’s say the Yankees are 4 games out of first on July 1.
On that day, their rotation is: Clemens, Pettitte, Wang, Mussina and Hughes and all of them are healthy.
Barring an injury to Rivera, how would you like their chances to make the playoffs at that point?
Right now, all they can do is try to tread water. They certainly have enough talent to do so, regardless of the competition. They just have to play better.
As far as the second guessing re: Hughes, I’m sorry, but that’s just laughable to me.
If the kid injured himself on his 120th pitch, then complain.
But, geez, he has no hitter, is only at 80 pitches and he pulls a hamstring. That’s just bad luck.
If pitching 6 1/3 shutout innings is now “pushing” a pitcher, perhaps we should just put them all in shrink wrap and hang them on the mantle, like the 40 Year Old Virgin did with the action figures in his apartment.
Its pro sports. Sometimes, guys get hurt.
I was against them calling up Hughes because I felt Torre would overuse him in desperation for wins.
But, that’s not what happened.
Watch the kid pitch, and ask yourself honestly, “Who has better stuff, command and poise on the pitching staff right now”?
Answer. Nobody. Watching him last night made me realize just how bad the starting pitching has been for the Yankees, from everyone but Pettitte, this season.
Its an unfortunate, bad luck situation. However, when he comes back, he goes in the rotation.
If we are going to keep talents like this down, we might as well shut down the season and play video games.
Bill, if you’re going to use past performance to prove future results, than the proof is we always come back and we always win, so we will win…. it’s a silly argument to make on either side. don’t you think?
You could say, if we keep playing the way we have been, we’ll continue to lose……… but last night showed that things could change on any given night. Now it’s just a matter (not a simple matter, by any means) of putting together more nights like last night, or even half as good as last night. Hell, 1/3 as good as last night.
SJ44, well said!
“B-E-A-R-D” – is that a “Jeter’s really gay” comment?
The guy’s not gay, get over it.
Looking at all the challenges in life can be overwhelming. The best thing to do is to take it one step at a time.
We play Texas tonight. Andy Pettitte’s pitching. We can only win one game at a time.
I’d hate to be in a foxhole with some of you guys.
Bill, that was my point… Looking at 6 games and saying they have our number this year is not much more valuable than looking at 90 years and saying we have theirs. There have been plenty of years they win a couple series from us, then we come back and sweep them, or vise versa.
If it were 10 out of 12 games, I’d agree. But 5/6 in two straight weekends does not mean they have our number. We have plenty of games over the course of the year to get the momentum and do the exact same to them. They may have had our number for 2 weekends, does not mean they will keep it. But really, I’ll say, they were mostly close games where our pitching failed us in the end. They didn’t dominate anything, they didn’t have anyone’s number, and they most certainly do not going forward.
And it’s not Sept. 30th. It’s May 2nd. I think it’s ok to be a little optimistic. When Sept. 30th comes, if we’re 4 games out and someone is saying we’re not out of it yet, you can tell them to check the schedule and do a little math that a 5 year old could handle and give it up. Till then, understand that it’s way to early to think that anyone on here is that naive.
I agree, SJ, well said.
Joe from LI, also well said… Let’s hope Andy returns to form with 7 innings, 2 runs, 4 hits, and a much needed *W*.
Interesting development in Toledo – Tyler Clippard just threw 7 innings of shutout ball – 5 hits, 1 walk, 11 K’s
Pardon the pun – I wonder if he just threw himself into the mix to slot into Hughes’ spot in the rotation
Ditto SJ44 – well said
wow minor league games start early, unfortunately Sunday would be short rest for him, so I doubt they would Tyler’s first start be that way. Unless they have Andy pitch a day short rest. Which I doubt they would do, he has tortured Andy enough.
lets just ignore bill.
I agree Bill, thought you were trying to start an argument but yeah we’ll take the season as it comes b/c thats the only option but I would love the Yanks to get hot these next few weeks, solidify the rotation and move up the standings ASAP but I’ll also take gradually catching the Red Sox and moving up in the wild card as we do (to early to talk about the wild card but just saying moving ahead of other AL teams). If Wang’s finger doesn’t bother him and Moose feels as good about his pitching as he did in his simulated game then that will help a lot. I’m hoping Igawa & ??? can give us 6IP and less than 5ER each time out, we should win some games with whoever can do that for us.
I’m still optimistic, this team has played as bad as they possibly could (minus ARod, Jeter, Giambi) and they are only a handful of games out of 1st (in division and all of baseball) so there is reason for hope. You can’t keep Damon, Abreu, Cano and others down all year as Robbie showed last night.
Chris NY – Amen.
Scooter – Interesting thought. I know Clippard hasn’t been thought of as being a high-ceiling prospect, but neither was Wang. As far as his not being on schedule for Sunday, that’s only one game. The #5 starting spot is wide open (and maybe #4 too, depending on what happens with Igawa, Clemens, etc.).
and dont look now, but Andy Phillips has a team-leading 23 hits in Scranton after a slow start, and a OBP of .380.
I would expect that if we get Clemens he would be here about the same time as Hughes would be recovered. Wouldn’t it be interesting if Hughes was going through his rehab starts while Roger was getting his ST work in down in the minors. Maybe Hughes could learn more doing that than being in the big league clubshouse with him where they are 20 superstars. Maybe its a blessing in disguise????
“But again, I don’t disagree that they should get paid based on performance, not on years in the league. I’m just saying, no leverage…..”
hey chris ny,
it was normal in the old days for players to just stay home for leverage. dimaggio did it, mantle did it. paplebon and hughes could both do it. they have the clout. a contract doesn’t force them to play. the contract is not a contract for involuntary servitude. it just says if they play they get so much. they do have the freedom to not play. the team could not legally sue them or force them to play. they would just stop paying them and maybe ask for some of the signing bonus back.the leverage they have is the marketplace itself. i think the yankees and red sox would back down if player like papelbon or hughes tested the present system.
the irony is that the union had the option of all players being free agents when the reserve clause was overturned, but marvin miller and the union did not want too many free agents in any one year. they thought it would lower the salaries paid.
the young players were the ones thrown under the bus by the union then to jack up veteran salaries. this issue may seem off topic , but it’s an important issue if so much is to be expected from hughes.
Well said, SJ44.
Here’s one point that I’ll add in which this “might” actually be a benefit in the long run this season. Hughes will be out about 4-6 weeks which means 4-6 weeks of throwing no innings this year. In theory that means that he’ll have more innings available to throw at the major league level since he wouldn’t be pitching at Scranton either. If he ends up coming back in the end of June/beginning of July the Yanks probably won’t have to worry about managing his innings like they would at this point. So he might still end up throwing the same amount of innings they originally intended in Triple A … but just at the major league level without taxing his arm any more than they wanted to. Just a thought.
I see where you’re coming from Randy, and I do agree they’re getting screwed. I wonder how much Beckett got his WS MVP year…
If they sat home, it definitely violates the contract. Yes, a contract is not something that makes you a slave under law. But it is, we will pay you this for this much AND we alone have the rights to your services. Sure, they could sit home and just not get paid. But of course they can be sued for doing so. I would think it would be more than a small portion of the signing bonus, but I guess that depends on how long they’ve been signed until they held out… Didn’t JD Drew do this or was that right when he was drafted (refused to sign in the first place)?
So I will admit, they do have the leverage of sitting home. But the team also has the leverage of owning the rights to their services. They can sit home, but the team can also refuse to let them out of their contract so they can go play somewhere else and get paid more, works both ways.
I agree they should get paid more adequately, young stars in other sports get paid right away (a risk taken by teams in those sports, ex. a 1st round draft pick in the NFL will get paid, may not perform). But, If I’m a guy trying to prove myself worthy of staying in the big leagues, I’m not going to sit home and waste my talent. That’s where things are different, minor leagues. You get drafted by the NFL, you’re in the NFL, not the sub-NFL. You’re in or you’re out and your money is not usually gauranteed as it is in MLB.
The Yankees also do offer very nice signing bonuses, under Cashman’s mandate to go after young talent in the draft.
Interesting topic though. I don’t know what the right answer is on how to change things, but I don’t think wasting a talent that is still developing is the right answer, no matter how good you are.
If anyone predicted the Yanks would win a pennant with Shawn Chacon and Aaron Small being vital cogs or the Yanks would win without their 3 hitter (sheff) and 5 hitter (Matsui) they’re dreaming.
Baseball is unpredictable.
And this team has too much heart to not win. Check out their come from behind W’s this yr alone.
“Wouldn’t it be interesting if Hughes was going through his rehab starts while Roger was getting his ST work in down in the minors.”
Very interesting indeed Nick, good observation. That could very well happen and I for one would be headed to Scranton for a game or two to watch it up close.
chris ny,
thanks for the thoughtful comments on this issue. it’s not a front burner issue, but i think with the emphasis on young pitching by all organizations that some agent is going to push the issue at some point in the next few years. rob neyer said recently that stat geeks(his term) were going to be replaced by the next new gig thing of pitching development geeks( his term again). this emphasis on young pitchers can”t be being missed by agents like boras. it’s not just a matter of what the young pitcher’s contract says because the whole contract could be declared illegal by the courts like what happened with the reserve clause. i agree this is a topic for another day, but it’s an interes when he comes back. reality says hughes is gone for a few months, and the yankees have a ballgame to win tonight. time to move on.
NEWS FLASH
Yankees Fire Strength Coach
Is that for real mike f????
Haha… serious?
There was already a lot to know about Hughes after his fairly historic summer of tearing up the Eastern league as a 20 year old last year. It’s always been a shame that the beat guys haven’t known much about the farm.
been away from the blog for a few days.
actually missed most of the game tuesday, just caught the first 4 innings and then the game recap on the radio. i knew he hadn’t let up a hit, but also knew something was fishy when sterlings recap only included yankee offensive hightlights.
then finally he got to the pitching. i swear my dreams were messing with my head that night after hearing what had happened.
and mel, hilarious:
“When Giambi got plunked, I almost expected him to giggle like the Pillsbury Doughboy.”
hope you sent that one to pete in question form…