Yankee Stadium: land of opportunity
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- May
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Great stat from the Elias Sports Bureau: Matt DeSalvo is the fourth pitcher to make his MLB debut with the Yankees this season. No team has had four pitchers debut this early in the season “since the 1800s.”
Apparently those were Civil War veterans, gold prospectors and members of the Whig party. What a mess.
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on Monday, May 7th, 2007 at 11:40 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
what a mess, indeed. you can have a rotation of clemens and four clemens clones as your starting rotation but when your closer has an ERA of 8.44, you’re not going anywhere.
and, guess what? i don’t know if you’ve noticed, but the red sox aren’t losing many games lately.
Well, it’s hard to lose when you don’t play
they didn’t play today, no, but they’re winning most of the games they do play.
kasey- shouldn’t you be posting on a red sox forum?
Kasey, what’s your problem? Did somebody shoot your dog? You are a menace to read in this comments section. Please come back after your period ends. And this may be your first season following the Yankees, but FYI Boston winning heavy early is nothing new. I’d say it’s happened almost every year this decade.
You know, it took me several minutes to remember who the fourth was. I remembered Hughes, Wright, and Desalvo, but I blanked on Igawa….
Kasey is the most negative whiner I have ever seen..
kasey gave the sux the division last year before the 5 game series…
that is right a staff with 2 40 yr old starters, a 33 yr old psycho, a guy who has been hurt every year of his 6 year career, and a japanese import in his first season will be healthy all year.
i forgot there 8th inning pitcher is 40, there closer has not closed for a whole season yet, but they will be healthy all season and have everything go perfect for the whole year……
i’m sorry, guys, what did i say that was incorrect? is mo doing a bang-up job so far this year? did i miss that?
and can you check the red sox record so far, then double-check the yankees record, and get back to me?
sorry if i’m not happy spouting the “it’ll be okay, the red sox always fall apart” line, but these are real problems. if rivera isn’t automatic, the yankees are cooked. ask anyone with even a modicum of knowledge and they’ll say the same thing.
it baffles me that the majority of people seem to just come here to post “hip, hip jorge!” and “we’ll be okay!” ad nauseum. are you WATCHING this team play? they continue to blow leads and find ways to lose games. tonight it was a bleeder, a bad call, and a blooper that led up to mo’s failure. they’ve lost 16 games and blown leads in 13 of them. it’s time to start entertaining the idea that this might just be who the yankees are this year. frankly, that thought frustrates me. but if you’re happy telling yourself it’ll all be okay, good for you.
nevermind the red sox. the point is this: mariano rivera’s ERA is 8.44. he has allowed 10 runs so far this year. he allowed 15 ALL OF LAST YEAR and 12 THE ENTIRE SEASON BEFORE. if you look at those numbers and don’t see a problem, you’re delusional.
again, if rivera isn’t automatic, IT DOESN’T MATTER what the red sox do. the yankees won’t be around.
Kasey,
Wasn’t it last year, or the year before, where Mo got lite up the first two weeks of the season, then only had like 2 more runs scored off him the rest of the season? Mo will get into his groove as the season progresses. No worries.
Kasey no complaints on the call at 2nd?/ That is right it happens in baseball, my ass.. the guy was out by 4 feet, not 3..
minor issue the Yanks should have overcome it anyway..
Kasey you are clown…….
tell when Papelbon survives one year….
jimmy,
he could certainly get on track, but it’s got to happen quickly.
stuart,
the call at second was terrible. i mentioned it “bleeder, bad call, bloop.” it was absolutely terrible. but gerry davis didn’t throw that pitch to beltre, did he?
“Kasey you are clown….”
if you’re going to insult me, at least word it correctly. that’s all i ask. try to get that grammar/sentence structure thing above the 2nd grade level, then come at me with your best stuff. i’ll be happy to take it. the insults tend to be more effective when they’re, you know, even mildly intelligent.
Yanks are getting much better starts lately and the wins will come. We pull a Street Sense on those stinkin’ Sox every year and the script doesn’t change this year.
phil,
maybe. but the script always said the yanks beat the sox and get to the world series, and that changed in 2004. the script isn’t always followed.
sure, if not for davis’ blown call, they probably win the game tonight and are sitting at .500, 5 games back, and feeling alright. but that didn’t happen. mariano rivera’s job is to get three outs. he failed to do that YET AGAIN tonight. so, if you want the yankees to follow the script, then somebody better remind mo what his role is. now.
we’ve overcome 5 game deficits the last two years and won the division both times. The script has not been changed.
I can’t take all this bullpen spin. It’s almost as bad as politics. Either the relievers get “too much” work (which I can give some credence too) or they get “too little” work. I mean, maybe it’s just that some of these guys are lousy, or maybe Torre just can’t use people the right way. Bruney and Henn are about as automatic arms as we have right now and they’re almost always used when we’re behind instead of ahead — that’s when Farnsworth and Vizcaino come in. Check this out:
only 2 of 17 appearances resulted in runs – bruney
only 3 of 14 appearances resulted in runs – henn
only 4 of 16 appearances resulted in runs – myers
only 5 of 14 appearances resulted in runs – farns
only 5 of 17 appearances resulted in runs – proctor
only 7 of 18 appearances resulted in runs – vizcaino
Now I believe this is a solid bullpen, but until some of these guys get there arms right, we cant be running vizcaino out there (who gives up runs almost half the time, literally) and farnsworth (who gives up runs nearly a third).
People can blame the umps all they want for the loss tonight, but the point is, Farnsworth gave up two hits any way you look at it. That shouldn’t happen in a close game. And Mo gave up a homer, which also shouldn’t happen. The ump blew the call, but the Yanks have their share of responsibility too.
This post isn’t directed at anyone in particular on this blog, btw, just in general to everyone on TV and other message board who keep apologizing for the BP.
phil,
it’s not the deficit. 6 back (which is where they are, not 5) in may isn’t a big deal. in june or july, it starts to be a bigger deal.
the issue is rivera. if he’s not automatic, they’re done.
First off, Beltre hit a good pitch. It happens. Second of all, they are starting to string together good starts. Things are stabilizing and help and help junior are on the way.
i dunno, man. they continue to find ways to lose and mo continues to give up runs. we’ll see.
Mo will be fine.
We do have to entertain the idea that there will come a time when Mo won’t be fine… it’s not like he’s going to ride off into the sunset as a lights out closer. His numbers are going to decline eventually, and this may be the year.
I know there’s a history of Mo struggling and people flipping out prematurely, so we obviously need to wait and see on this one. But I think it’s true that Mo has never had a stretch this bad in his career (somebody care to check that?). This could be blamed on him being underworked and “out of his groove”, but I hope at least Cashman is thinking about contingency plans. Obviously we’re not going to be running Krazy Kyle out there in the 9th.
Kasey’s entitled to his opinion, as the Yanks haven’t looked like winners very often this year. Sure we’ve got Clemens and Hughes on the horizon, but that won’t matter much if the Yankees can’t at least tread water. Boston has a very balanced team this year, and we can’t sit around hoping for injuries, or rest on our laurels.
Just a note — the offense really didn’t do the job last night, either. Only 2 runs on 10 hits. Not a good thing.
Mo’s problems stem from not getting regular work. Once the starters get on track — which they’ve been starting to do, Mo will get his routine back and he’ll be fine.
And ignore Kasey, IIRC there was a certain 5 game series last year that he totally blew. Wasn’t right then, won’t be right ever again.
Even as a Sox fan I will readily admit that for many years Mo was the best reliever in baseball. But that is not the case now and his ERA is a whopping 8.44 Any Yankee fan not worried about that has their head in the sand and has a severe case of denial.
the baseball season is a long one, my fellow mighty yankee fans.
last year, the yanks were left for dead at the side of the road and ended up winning the division.
as for mo, he usually starts slow, so lets not toss him aside just yet, but truth be told, it’s amazing they haven’t developed another reliable closer in the 10+ years they’ve had him.
i know there hasn’t been reason to up to this point, but it might be something to at least consider now.
my nomination would be carl pavano. just joking.
knucklehead3k
If someone had to be called up for a start i’d rather see a rookie getting the shot as opposed to some retred like darrel may (everyone remember him)?
What I am seeing about Mo is that he’s throwing fastballs much more now and we see the cutter less. Perhaps he trying to compensate for something?
His velocity still looks great (mid 90s), but it’s the cutter that has made him great – and it’s the cutter we’re not seeing.
I am concerned.
If Joe managed the game DeSalvo would have been taken out in the 6th for Myers aginst a lefty, Proctor and Heen for the 7th, Vizcaino and Farnsworth for the 8th and Mo for the ninth.
He missed with a fastball to a good fastball hitter. It happens.
This Kasey is a clown. I’m sure he’ll lead the chorus of Boo’s for Mariano tonight when he enters the game.
hey ray red sox fan,
you’d better worry about papelbon’s decreased velocity and lower arm slot which are classic signs of a shoulder problem.
Anyone who is dissing Mo, has just not been watching the games over the past 10 days. He’s been his same old dominant self. He gave up a HR on a bad pitch last night, like most closers that come in at a non save situation, his performance was a bit off. Truth is, the way the offense was playing last night short of, am I really writing this, Minky, they probably were not going to score any more runs and it could have been a long extra inning game. Now at least the meat of the bullpen is pretty well rested as the Rangers come to town to face Pettitte, Wang and Mussina. This marks the first time this year, those 3 will pitch in one series.
Its time to shake up the lineup and switch Giambi with Bobby. They both get walks but Abe is just not hitting and its busting up ralleys. You can’t end the game on a called 3rd strike looking( ala Beltran).
“He missed with a fastball to a good fastball hitter. It happens.”
This crap has been happening all too much this season. How many times has Papelbon either blown a save or lost a game so far?
If Scutaro can turn on Mo’s fastball, then any good hitter will be able to.
I know the loss was terrible but why is no one giving some well deserved props to the rookie on the hill? DeSalvo did an excellent job. The 4th starter to have gone more than 7 innings. I loved his quote in the papers about him coming to make a name for himself. Yes, it’s only one start and yes, he is not the prized Stallion Hughes, but the kid had guts out there and pitched a good game.
“If Joe managed the game DeSalvo would have been taken out in the 6th for Myers aginst a lefty, Proctor and Heen for the 7th, Vizcaino and Farnsworth for the 8th and Mo for the ninth.”
i disagree. torre was running that game even though not physically on the bench and i’m sure everyone was aware of any pitch-count, if there was one (other than the 100 pitch count, that’s pretty much the default). donny wasn’t making any decisions. he seemed nervous in the post-game interview. he seemed like he was just saying and doing the things we was ’supposed’ to do…
Big Papi talks about steroids
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=2863623
On Bud Selig: “He’s just making things worse.”
on Bonds: “He deserves respect.”
on himself: “I don’t know if I drank something in my youth, not knowing it.”
Big Papi just admitted to unknowingly taking steroids…as much as Bonds admitted it.
“Its time to shake up the lineup and switch Giambi with Bobby”
But do we want someone that slow in the #3 slot?
my vote is to switch him with matsui. then maybe bobby can see a lot of pitches while giambi is up.
Saucy,
David Ortiz sometimes bats 3rd..
The 3 hole needs a hitter that will get on base and make contact.
good point. i’ll agree that bobby needs to bat somewhere else for the time being though…
Here’s a dilemma, as far as I see, with Mariano. It is generally agreed upon that he needs to have “regular work.” Yesterday’s HR is being attributed to both lack of regular work and the fact the he was in the game in a non-save situation, which apparently is a different mind-set for a closer. The Yankees are a team that is probably going to score 950-1000 runs this season. As we’ve been seeing, the Yankees have not been involved in a whole of games this year where there has been a bona fide save situation for Mariano.
So, if they score the way the score on a routine day, Mariano is not needed for a save. If they are losing a game, Mariano is not needed for a save. If they bring him in in a blowout (either way) to get his work in, or a tie game, he won’t have the same “mindset” as if it’s a closing situation. I am a little confused here. How does this team ever get Mariano in the “perfect” situation? Because, it seems this year they either win by a lot or the bullpen leading up to Mo loses the lead so there’s no longer a save situation (of course, there have been exceptions).
Mariano got the first 2 hitters easily last night, and made one bad pitch. It happens. The problem is how many perfect situations is he actually going to have this season, if things go as they have been?
Also, the bad call at 2nd was incredibly bad luck for the Yankees. If an umpire blows a call that badly, what repercussions are there for him? Does he get fined or anything by the umpire’s union? There ought to be something. It’s bad enough it (probably) changed the outcome of the game, but to then hear the umpire say, yeah, I blew it, well — thanks a lot, we already KNEW that. I know that during the course of a season close calls probably even out; but this was not a close call. It was a blown call. For those who say, well, Farnsworth gave up the 2 hits in the first place. Sure. But he would have been out of the inning with a caught stealing and wouldn’t have faced the hitter who got the second hit. Mariano would not have faced the batter who got the homerun, in all likelihood. So that blown call was huge.
But still, bad pitch from Mo and all, I think the offense has to take this one — they were very unproductive in the “clutch.”
“This crap has been happening all too much this season. How many times has Papelbon either blown a save or lost a game so far?
If Scutaro can turn on Mo’s fastball, then any good hitter will be able to.”
there was a difference between Mo in Oakland/Boston and last night.
in oakland he was throwing crap up there, couldn’t put anyone away.
last night he embarrassed the first hitter. quickly put away the second hitter. then he missed with a 95 MPH fastball. it happens.
if it was an isolated incident, it wouldn’t have bothered me a bit. obviously it wasn’t…
i am somewhat concerned, and i am not going to call Kasey any names, b/c Mo’s ERA is troubling. i have faith in him still though. i have faith in abreu as well.
just as Mo has a 10 year track record of excellence, so does abreu.
i’m more concerned with Cano than i am with Abreu. you could always overlook his lack of walks b/c he rarely struck out. this year he’s been a strike out machine. that concerns me a bit.
Pete, Joel Sherman is stealing your best lines.
“They paid the extra $2.5 million due to the current rotation realities. They are sending Pavano to a fourth doctor to convince him not to have Tommy John surgery. Heck, they can send him to Dr. Seuss, nothing is changing: Pavano is not pitching for the Yanks anymore”
http://www.nypost.com/seven/05.....htm?page=2
Regardint his whole Pavano thing, I distinctly remembering reading a Klapisch column where he explicitly wrote, that NONE of the doctors Pavano saw diagnosed a tear. Pavano is saying they did. Is Pavano misremembering the diagnosis, or did Klapisch have poor information? Either Pavano is a malingerer, or just stupefyingly unluck.
Bill, it’s not just Klapisch, because John Heyman from SI is reporting the same thing on his column today:
“The debate now is whether Pavano needs Tommy John elbow ligament replacement surgery, which is quite a bad turn since his injury was originally listed as being in his “forearm.” But this negative twist can’t be a surprise. Pavano’s tenure with the Yankees has been marked by freak injuries, slow healing and major disappointment.
“Carl does not want surgery. He wants to pitch,” his agent Gregg Clifton said. “But he’s not capable of pitching. So he wants to find out why he’s not capable of pitching. We’re searching for an answer to allow him to pitch in 2007 without surgical intervention. But rest has not eliminated the pain in his elbow.”
The Yankees are not going to OK surgery if doctors don’t recommend it, and the initial looks apparently have not revealed any tears. Nonetheless, Pavano says he feels great pain.
So Pavano’s 2007 doctor tour continues.”
CAN SOMEONE ANSWER THIS QUESTION WHY ARE REDSOX FANS ON A YANKEE MESSAGE BOARD???
WORRY ABOUT YOUR OWN TEAM AND NOT ABOUT RIVERA!!! IT IS MAY 8TH AND THE LAST TIME I CHECKED THE DIVISION WASN’T NEVER CLINCHED THIS EARLY IN THE SEASON.
“What I am seeing about Mo is that he’s throwing fastballs much more now and we see the cutter less. Perhaps he trying to compensate for something?”
Being on the west coast makes it tough for me to watch every game, but from what I’ve seen thus far, it seems to be the case… similar to Pettitte. From what I’ve heard about Pettitte staying away from the cutter is that it is really taxing on the elbow. Does anyone recall hearing the stories about Mo learning a changeup in ST? I wonder if we’ll ever see that this year ALA Trevor Hoffman.
Only a Redsox fan would bring up Pavano. Am I the only yankees fan who thinks that the best thing that could have happended this season is that we knbow for sure that pavano’s gone. It opens up a spot for Hughes.
Comming into the season which rotation would you rather have?
A. Wang, Andy, Moose, Pavano, Igawa
B. Wang, Andy, Moose, Hughes, Clemens
This may turn out to be a blessing in disguise in August when the Ynaks catch the Sox and have Rotation B going into the Playoffs!
“The Yankees are not going to OK surgery if doctors don’t recommend it, and the initial looks apparently have not revealed any tears. Nonetheless, Pavano says he feels great pain.”
Man, Pavano hates work more than I do. His whole life is quickly becoming 1 long sick day. Does anyone else think this story is going to get really ugly when his time with the Yankees is up?
if not for the blown call, Beltre never even comes to the plate, period.
vin, I’m surprised he hasn’t been run down by a cab driver in the city yet… I heard Jeter was spotted at the Auto Auction looking exclusively for yellow vehicles.
I hope this guy never pitches again in his life.
where the hell is that picture of pavano pitching while wearing a tye died shirt. that lazy hippy.
All this talk about a “script” is silly. Let’s be clear: there is no way the Yankees are GUARANTEED to get into the playoffs this year. This could well be the year they don’t. Furthermore, Kasey is right about this: if the team continues to perform as they have up to this point, they WON’T make the playoffs. Duh. Similarly, if Boston manages to get through the whole season WITHOUT hitting any rough patches, and with guys like Wakefield and Beckett pitching to sub-3 ERAs, then the Yankees are probably not going to win the division. Double duh.
To acknowledge all of that isn’t being “negative.” What I find negative is the attitude that the lousy six games by which the Yankees trail the RS are somehow due to some major lapse of effort on the part of the players or management. Fans should be thrilled with the overall quality and depth of this roster, including the guys they have been able to call up to replace the ailing starters.
But for the injuries and some bad luck, this team would clearly have won another half-dozen games to this point.
Sure, Mo has been bad, as have Vizcaino and Igawa. But what are you going to do? I for one wouldn’t want them to bench Rivera. (Talk about a panic move!) Igawa was given a shot but now he’s been sent down. Vizcaino will probably get better now that (hopefully) there is less of an onus on the BP to pitch so many innings.
The offense has been as good as advertised, despite significant slumps among several key players.
It bears noting that Boston has played over their heads to the tune of at least a couple of wins. They have no real business winning 2/3 of their games, unless you think they are a legitimate 108-win team. If they are at that level, then the whole discussion is probably moot. Tip your cap to them (the players, not the fans).
Even with the start they’ve had, this team is still very much in it. They are 14-16, not 8-22. Their luck should even out as the season progresses. Same for Boston, for that matter. Things may work out fine, or they may not. Either way, just whining about it doesn’t help.
“The Yankees are not going to OK surgery if doctors don’t recommend it, and the initial looks apparently have not revealed any tears. Nonetheless, Pavano says he feels great pain.�
kindof depends on what the truth is. Pavano says 1 doctor found a tear, another found damage but no tear.
Yanks are sending him to Yocum for a 4th opinion.
if Yocum finds a tear, i don’t see how he was lying or faking or whatever.
honestly, i don’t know what to think at this point.
if one doctor found a tear, isn’t that sort of thing REALLY easy to confirm?
i don’t understand this cloak and dagger nonsense.
You can compare Papelbon to Rivera when Papelbon actually pitches for a whole season.
And he gave up a 2 run dinger in the ninth to some guy named Buck.
If theres one guy you should all quit bitching about its Rivera. You ungrateful slobs.
“To acknowledge all of that isn’t being “negative.â€? What I find negative is the attitude that the lousy six games by which the Yankees trail the RS are somehow due to some major lapse of effort on the part of the players or management. Fans should be thrilled with the overall quality and depth of this roster, including the guys they have been able to call up to replace the ailing starters”
amen. Rivera himself has blown 3 games. replace those games and the yanks are 17-13 despite losing 4 starters to the DL in the first 30 games.
what were they supposed to do, NOT use Rivera in those games?
should Cashman have secured another closer this off-season??
The Yanks should cut RIvera right now or trade him away. Hes been terrible and deserves to go right now. Send Abreu with him and Cano too while your at it. Cashman should have signed Joe Borowski to close.
If anything, we should use Rivera more. Give him the work he seems to need, and give the other relievers rest in the process. Plus, if there’s something wrong with him, we need to know now rather than later.
Just to refresh everyone’s mind, Kyle Farnsworth was signed to be the main setup guy for MO, and be groomed for his replacement should one be necessary… and would anyone here really, at this point, rather see Farnsworth with the ball at the end of the game, or MO?
exactly.
Rufus, are you crazy? Joe Borowski over Danny Kolb?
ERA for relievers – - or starters for that matter – - is not the most informative indicator or predictor of performance. For a reliever especially just a couple of bad outings will throw ERA way off. Once it’s up there, only pitching that one inning at the end of the game every now and then doesn’t allow a reliever to regress that ERA a lot.
Clearly, however, when it’s Mo, we are not talking about just any closer. We don’t expect any significant change in any of his stats. His excellence has been uniform and of long duration. While ERA may not give us very specific or useful data to work with, giving up two HRs already when he only gave up 3 all of last year may be more of a red flag than his ERA.
He had to make a concession to age a few years ago (two?) when he stopped throwing in the off season, saving his arm some wear and tear. Last year he developed that scary forearm tightness that was in the neighborhood of a ligament problem. He rested it and came back fairly well, but we got bounced in the first round of the playoffs. Did we really see enough from Mo after he returned from his September rest to know whether his arm ever got back to 100%?
Consistent with his decision two years ago or so, he probably didn’t throw much this past off season and thus didn’t push his arm much. He came to ST, worked a few innings and looked great. But now we are back to the real thing and I am truly wondering whether he ever fully recovered from last fall’s forearm tightness. Does good velocity mean all is well? I do not know. Could it be that Mo has a loose or stretched ligament, not enough to affect velocity yet, but maybe location and consistency?
Obviously the Yankees have to go with what Mo tells them. Apparently he’s not complaining about any pain but that doesn’t mean he is pain free. Especially with the team going as it is, would Mo be trying to tough something out?
One last thought: If we are being that careful and persnickety with someone who means nothing to us (Pavano) why not have Mo get an MRI to be sure last season’s problem is either cleared up or hasn’t gotten worse?
Jeremy, that’s just it. The only thing wrong with Rivera is that he hasn’t gotten enough work. He purposely doesn’t throw in the offseason anymore, and doesn’t require much work in ST to get ready for the season. But he’s had too much time between appearances this year, with no real consistency. The only reason he was even in yesterday was to get some work. They need to get him in more often and you’re right, why not since the other guys need some rest anyway.
Great players find ways to make adjustments. Mariano Rivera is a great player. While I’m concerned about him, and do think we’re looking at the beginning of a decline, I’m also very confident in his making the adjustments needed to continue to be an effective closer. We’ve still got a while before he’s put out to pasture.
in that double header last week against Texas, Mo’s command and velocity were both dead on, vintage Mo, were they not? He was hitting his spots with every pitch and was hitting mid 90’s on the gun. I didn’t catch every game after that, but did he even pitch between those 2 games and last night?
Another thing about Mo. His decline is inevitable – someday. But look what he would be declining from:
2003: 1.66 ERA
2004: 1.94 ERA
2005: 1.38 ERA (Best ERA of his career. Same year that Bill Simmons wrote a column about the “death” of Rivera due to his lousy April.)
2006: 1.80 ERA
A player of Mo’s sustained greatness does not suddenly lose it unless he develops an injury. Like I said, if there’s something physically wrong with him, we need to know right away so we can make sure he’s healthy. If not, all the evidence points to this being a rough patch due to inconsistent work, a slump, or just plain bad luck.
Rivera will not be “finished” until he (a) retires or (b) is physically spent.
Well said Jeremy. And I’d guess (a) and (b) will not be exclusive of one another. The guy loves what he does and may not want to retire till he can no longer get it done.
Chris is right
Mo didn’t pitch in Igawa’s debacle, Wang’s brilliant start, or Rasner’s
If Mo was pitching the way he did against the RS in that mop-up, I’d be really worried. He had zero command, and not a lot of zip
Take a look at the 9th inning last night, and watch Posada’s glove. Mo hit the glove on almost every pitch – except the one Beltre hit
That one? Was supposed to be up and in. It was above the belt, and about 94 or 95 MPH – a pitch that is very hard to turn on and crush. Beltre did
If you’re trying to decide “Is ____ done?” – Mo or anyone else – you cannot simply look at the boxscore, folks.
Was his velocity there last night? Yes
Was the command there? Yes – despite not having pitched for 4 days
So let’s get off the ledge, ignore the trolls, and talk Yankee baseball…
And maybe get Kasey some valium so he can make it through the season…
Kolb over Borowski? Really?
Mo was throwing 95 yesterday. I dont think it had anything to do with stuff. He misses his spot.
Location matters.
I’d at least like to point out that Matt DeSalvo did a hell of a job last night for a rookie. It sucks that we have had to go through so many starters this season, but its nice to see some success out of Hughes, DeSalvo, and Rasner over the past week (not including Hughes’s injury).
Rivera is shocking me with his performance. I’ve never seen anything like this out of him and it begs the question “What do they do?”. They can’t exactly demote the guy or let someone else close unless he is injured. I wouldn’t want them to demote him anyways, but something is not right and that needs to be resolved now.
We don’t “know” if Mo’s problem is only lack of work.
Since Scutaro’s HR, he has not pitched well.
We do know that he has given up more runs and more home runs, at this stage of the season, than at any time since he was named the closer in 1997. That’s a tad alarming.
Its not just velocity. He is still throwing 92-94. Its location, movement and consistently hitting Jorge’s glove, like he used to do.
To say, “he got the first two outs, then just made a bad pitch”, is really not the issue. The closers job is to get 3 outs, not 2.
That’s why its such a tough job.
He doesn’t do that anymore. Or, more precisely, hasn’t in the last 3-4 weeks.
Who knows what the problem is. FWIW, despite denials to the contrary, I don’t think he is a 100% healthy, which is why they aren’t using him too much. Its probably a combination of not being completely healthy, lack of use and lack of confidence. Even a guy like Mo needs confidence and he has to be a bit shaken at what has happened to him the past 3-4 weeks.
Whatever the reason, the bottom line is, he hasn’t gotten the job done and the team is now 6 games out of first place.
This team isn’t good enough to spot the Red Sox a 10-12 game lead before playing better baseball.
We are seeing some signs of improvement. Certainly, a 5-2 week is a big step in the right direction.
Conversely, Cano looks completely lost at the plate and his strikeouts are becoming “Soriano-like” in their rapidity.
Abreu hasn’t hit in 3 weeks. Scuffling a couple of cheap hits over the weekend is not “hitting”. He hasn’t hit two balls on the screws since they were in Tampa. I would give it this week to see if he snaps out of it. If he doesn’t, they can’t keep him in the 3 hole any longer.
All that said, the biggest issue surrounding this team right now is Mo. Whether its lack of use, age, injury or whatever, its not being a “troll” to say that if he doesn’t get it going soon, this team is in big trouble.
of course location matters Rufus, but he IS hitting his spots. As Scooter said, watch Posada’s glove and watch where the ball is headed. If his velocity is there and the ball is going where they want it to go and it gets hit, there’s only 2 explanations I can think of:
1) Good hitter hit a good pitch.
2) Bad decision to throw it there.
In either case, ability isn’t the issue. He’s hitting his spots with the intended velocity. Even the espn guys were saying it was a bad *decision*, not a bad pitch.
Beltre hit a good pitch, period.
“Since Scutaro’s HR, he has not pitched well.”
“more precisely, hasn’t in the last 3-4 weeks.”
SJ, you don’t think he hit his spots and had the velocity in Texas? and, by the way, he did get those 3 outs in both of those games.
Message to all the trolls, chicken littles and/or red sox fans posting here:
1) True, if the Red Sox continue to play .667 baseball over the entire season, we will not catch them and neither will anyone else. They probably won’t do that. They will have a period of losing more than they win and they may have injury problems like we’ve had. What happens if they lose only one or two players such as Schilling, Beckett, Papelbon or Varitek for a while. Look what happened last year.
2) The Yankees are experiencing their bad patch at the beginning of the season. The team is making moves to improve. Last year we trailed by at least 5 games much further into the season and won by 10. Anyone who looks at this team and says it’s a bad team or a losing team for the entire season is just wishing and hoping and/or insane.
3) We haven’t even played 20% of the season. At the 20% stage of the Kentucky Derby, Street Sense was nowhere near the lead. And that’s a sprint, the baseball season is a marathon. Do we Yankee fans have cause to be concerned? Sure we do. But we’re heading in the right direction. We’ve won 5 of 7, we’re making moves to improve and I think we’ll be breathing down the necks of the Sox before the All-Star break.
I guess kasey was waiting 12 years to type that.. i think the main reason there are so many trolls on this website is because they have no good blog of their own…
Bill Simmons is so partial they cringe themselves.. Peter Gammons shud retire already.. i have no clue how he was 20 years back.. but the only team he can talk coherently yet incorrectly is about the Red Sox.. and Dan Shauna of the the Globe… he calls Clemens the clown he is..
so u can understand the trolls roving the blogosphere with their egg nolls rollin coming over and trying to spoil some good baseball talk out here…
well i guess.. we do need some entertainment.. fire away warrior Kasey.. make sure u get enough tissues to wipe ur tears once we overtake ya
And also, I don’t deny we need Mo to be Mo. All I’m saying is, lately at least, he has been or is at least getting close to being himself.
Even when he’s at his best, he can still give up a HR to a good hitter when that turns on a good pitch, not gonna happen often, but it does happen.
well said Bob
Chris NY,
On the post-game, Mariano seemed to say that he did not hit his spot on the pitch to Beltre, that it was’t “in” enough. He just missed his spot. Unless I misunderstood, but that seemed to be how he answered the question.
But, if you watch the replay, Beltre didn’t think it was an HR right away — he ran hard to first and didn’t slow down til just past on his way to 2nd. Mo said he thought Beltre hit it hard, but didn’t think hard enough to go out. I know that’s quibbling — he DID hit the ball, and hard, so, there ya go.
SJ –
As for Mariano’s confidence needing a boost, he did save both games of the doubleheader against Texas. Then no appearances until last night. I think we won’t really know if there’s any “problem” with Mariano until he gets regular work — if that doesn’t make him more consistent, then maybe you can speculate about his health.
oops… i meant Schilling not Clemens
If we can continue to get quality starts and let the bullpen gradually get some rest and actually have some save opportunities for Mo, then we’ll see if he has any issues, health or otherwise. If there’s health issues, I’ll be concerned. If he’s healthy and gets appropriate work to stay sharp, he can still dominate and get the job done as only he can.
Outside of his health, which has never been much of a concern itself until the end of last year, I do not worry about Mariano Rivera, nor should any of you.
** When I say “you” can speculate, I mean people in general, not “you” specifically, btw.
Cool, now I know how to make the box thing!
Ok Doreen, I didn’t catch that. But even still, slightly missing a spot on one pitch is going to happen. I get that pitching is a game of inches, so I’m not going to say barely missing doesn’t matter, but even when he’s at his best he is going to occasionally miss his spot. When he was getting beat up a couple weeks ago, he was missing by a lot more than “in, but not in *enough*…” and he was missing a lot more often than he has been missing his last few games.
Beltre also hit a DeSalvo pitch pretty well…
Agreed, Chris.
Chris,
Yes, for one night, Mo was Mo. But, in his last 7 appearances, he only been like Mo once.
Even his pitch counts are up this year. The saves are even struggles now. Very few easy innings for Mo since the Scutaro HR.
I just hope its rust. If its rust, it will work itself out.
If its more than rust? That’s a whole different deal.
Doreen is right, Mo said the location was bad on the Beltre HR.
To me, it seems like he is throwing less cutters and more fastballs this year.
Perhaps Pete can ask Jorge or Mo if that’s the case.
If he is throwing less cutters, it could be a sign that he doesn’t want to push the forearm/elbow area (which is the stress point on the arm when you throw cutters) right now.
I know Pettitte is throwing less cutters for the same reason.
Whatever the reason, its alarming to see him struggle this much this early. Hopefully, its not a sign of things to come.
i just do not have confidence in MO right now…so thefort i do not have any confidence in the team….unlike last three years. but hopefully MO will right himself and the yankees will overtake the blowsux
Mo starts slow. He was blowing saves at this point last season too. Admittedly he typically isn’t this bad, but the last few years he’s always started really rough. Give him a couple save opportunities and I think he’ll turn it around.
Anyway, I thought it was cool to see how excited Matt DeSalvo was after the game. He’s psyched because they told him right away that he’s got another start coming on Saturday. Loved his enthusiasm and I hope he can do just as well next time out.
yeah, the matty d interview was a good one…
It seems, as a couple you have already stated, that Mo is avoiding the use of his cutter. Correct me if I’m wrong, but all of his blown games have come from poorly located fastballs, not cutters. With the shape the bullpen is in right now (though it’s getting better) and the starting rotation (again, getting better), I wouldn’t be surprised if Mo wants to make sure he stays healthy for the sake of the team and therefore is resorting to an increased use of his fastball (i.e. the weaker of his two picthes).
I agree SJ, I’m just saying (and hoping…) his last 3 appearances have been far better and hopefully that is a sign he’s getting back to being himself and we’ll see more of those easy innings we’re used to getting from him.
The Beltre HR doesn’t worry me if I’m right about those 3 games. Meaning, it wouldn’t worry me if Beltre hit that HR in July after seeing Mo dominate for a couple months before hand, so hopefully it’s no more cause for concern now than it would be then. Of course, we’ve only had 2 good games in between poor performances and that HR in this case, I’m just hoping/being optimistic that it really doesn’t mean more than a good hitter catching up with a good pitch that barely missed and it won’t happen often.
What I think, is that the fact that both his velocity and location were there for all but one pitch last night, one pitch that barely missed, is a sign that he’s back on track or close to it.
I didn’t see that interview Doreen but it’s always nice to see guys play with enthusiasm. DeSalvo got out of some sticky situations, didn’t lose his composure, and kept pitching to contact. I think he did a great job.
and again, I’m saying all this while praying in the back of my mind that health is not an issue for him.
Apropos of DeSalvo’s performance, for the first time this year, there is nobody coming up in the rotation who I DON’T want to see get the ball. The Yankees started Pavano on opening day. By the time they got Pettitte, Moose, and Wang all in the rotation, Igawa was stinking up the joint and we still had no idea what DeSalvo might do. Now Igawa’s gone, Rasner looks solid after four starts, and DeSalvo showed more than enough last night to make me worry about his next start.
i love that you’re a “troll” or a “clown” if you dare to suggest that, without rivera pitching effectively, the yankees are in trouble. i’d be willing to bet that, to a man, everyone in the yankee organization would tell you that, without rivera pitching effectively, they’re in trouble. i suppose that makes those guys clowns, too.
all we have to go on right now are facts.
fact: his ERA is 8.44
fact: he’s allowed 2 home runs through may 7. he allowed 3 all of last year.
fact: he’s allowed 10 runs through may 7. he allowed 15 all of last year.
fact: he’s throwing far less cutters and far more fastballs. the cutter is his best pitch, his trademark, and he’s going away from it. seems odd, don’t you think?
bringing up facts taht contradict the “mo’s just fine,” party line doesn’t make one a troll or a red sox fan, it makes them observant. if you feel comfortable ignoring what’s happening to mo and this team, that’s fine. but don’t badmouth people who are intelligent enough to have noticed a change. it’s incredibly petulant to call people names simply because they had the gall to point out that rivera is struggling.
oh, and just so we’re clear, there’s no way papelbon’s shoulder holds up, but mo is fine? papelbon’s arm slot is down and velocity has decreased (even though he’s been automatic all but once so far this season), so he’s going to be injured. it’s inevitabel. mo, on the other hand, has posted an 8.44 ERA and been largely ineffective, but it’s a given that he’s fine? really? explain to me how that works again, please? use a little bit of common sense, guys.
at no point have i said “yankees suck!” or “papelbon rules!” or any of that annoying stuff. the fact is, the red sox are playing very well right now and the yankees need to win games to catch up with them because there’s absolutely NO WAY to guarantee that the red sox will come back to the back. you can cite history and papelbon’s shoulder and whatever else, but there’s no way to predict what the red sox will do. the yankees have had seasons where they were largely healthy the entire year. it happens. it could happen to the red sox this year. so, without knowing whether they’lll come back to the pack, that leaves the yankees in a position to have to sprint out and catch them. guess what? if mo isn’t mo, that’s not happening.
that’s pretty simple. being logical doesn’t make somebody a troll. being childish enough to call names because somebody had the nerve to suggest something that doesn’t jibe with your picture of how the season will turn out isn’t exactly the epitome of candor and intelligence. try and be reasonable, folks. nobody’s saying they’re done. largely, people like SJ44 and myself are making IF/THEN statements. “if rivera’s not healthy, they’re in big trouble.” looking through the posts, not a single person has made a convincing argument to the contrary. all anyone has said is “you’re a clown!” or “go find a red sox board!” or “mo will be fine.” to me, that’s the sign that people are searching for an argument, can’t find a leg to stand on, and result to namecalling.
DeSalvo was like a kid in a candy store. He actually seemed to take in the whole experience, enjoy it and appreciate it. It’s like he wasn’t worried about coming across as a little “green,” which is refreshing. So many times you get the feeling that guys try to pass off their first MLB appearance as just another thing, when, clearly, it’s not, and there’s nothing wrong with being impressed and showing it (as long as you’re not cocky or idiotic).
Tyler Clippard last night: 7 IP, 5 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 3 BB, 9 K – 2 strong starts in a row.
The flip side to Pete’s “what a mess” pronouncement: I cannot remember being this excited about the Yankees’ prospects.
DeSalvo did a great job, and was only denied a win due to some pretty bad luck and poor situational hitting.
Chase Wright may be a sanitarium today thanks to the Sox, but he still got us a win and shows promise for the future.
Phil Hughes got us a win and made us all look forward to his return. His start against Texas showed us that he belongs in this rotation.
Even Igawa, for all the criticism he deserves, gave us a handful of good appearances, including his downright heroic pitching in relief of Karstens. Don’t count him out yet.
If necessary, we can keep digging into the minors because we have even more talented prospects.
This has been a tough season to watch so far. But it’s also been a really exciting one. We’ve had to change the game plan so many times, we’ve thrown it out completely. I enjoy seeing the Yankees relying on their prospects more than I can ever remember.
well put
Joba Chamberlain, the Yankees second round draft choice last year, made his season debut in Tampa last night.
He missed the early part of the season with (surprise!) a hamstring injury.
4 innings, 2 hits, 0 runs, 5 K’s.
He has a great arm. He could move up the ladder quickly. Worth keeping an eye on this season.
good to hear, SJ.
Jeremy: I agree we shouldn’t give up on Igawa. Although I don’t think he’s ready to be effective in MLB right now, and I don’t think his ceiling is very high assuming he does become MLB-ready, it is way too early to draw any firm conclusions about what he can do.
I’ll use a golf analogy: Suppose you had a solid young player who was good enough to make cuts and earn a decent living on the PGA tour. Then for some reason you sent him to the UK to play solely on links-style courses and conditions. He would have to put in a lot of time and effort in order to adapt his game to that style of golf. There might be some mechanical issues to deal with, he might have to work on a number of shots that he doesn’t currently use, and he would definitely have to re-think how to get around those kinds of courses on a weekly basis. He may succeed or he may not, but you’re simply not going to know until after he’s gone through the adjustment phase.