Vote in the poll: Should Roger Clemens get travel perks from the Yankees?
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There’s been a lot of talk about Roger Clemens and the “family plan” of travel privileges that came with his contract.
So what do you think?
Vote in the poll over to the right.
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on Wednesday, May 9th, 2007 at 2:06 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
I’m pretty much in the “Who Cares?” camp on this. Roger said himself that he won’t be gone between all of his starts, that he wanted it as a comfort to himself. I do not get what the big deal is, its ROGER CLEMENS. The guy is a workhorse.
Where can I vote for, I don’t care one way or the other?
It’s FORTY FOUR-FIVE YEAR OLD roger clemens that we are getting…. work horse? He averaged 5.9 innings last year? Shoot Matt DeSalvo gave us 7 innings I dont think you can argue that he is going to eat up innings for the yankees. Fact of the matter is that he is going to tax the pen almost every time out …. whether or not he has a 3.5 era….. which frankly I dont know about. Wasnt for clemens before and arent for him now. That said any pitching is a help so since I dont make the decisions noone cares what I think about FA signings lol
Rob NY
Clemens came of 6 games last season in the sixth inning for a pinch hitter down by 2 runs or less. At the very least, I expect about 25-30 more pitches per game then he gave the Astros. How many more innings that turns into, we will see.
“I don’t like it, but they did what they had to do” is the best way to put it. Obviously it’s not an ideal thing, otherwise every pitcher would get the same privilege. That being said, I don’t think it’s the world’s biggest deal since you can trust Roger to take care of himself while he’s away from the team. Imagine if David Wells had this same option in his contract? He’d go to Sturgis for the Harley-Davidson rally and drink himself into such a stupor that he’d forget to come back to the team 4 days later.
I’m with MJ on this one. Providing these “perks” was part of the cost of getting Clemens.
“Fact of the matter is that he is going to tax the pen almost every time out”
really? this is a fact?? i wish Cashman looked that fact up before he signed him.
also, where are all the people who have argued that coming from the NL to the AL adds 2 runs to your ERA to explain how Pettitte is doing??
No, no, Pettitte doesn’t count — he was in the AL before he was in the NL.
Seriously, as with A-Rod’s hitting, Pettitte’s going to have that levelling off, probably. He’ll end up in the 3-4 range, I’m guessing. But I’m willing to bet that the days he gives up more runs are the days he’s getting more runs, in general, over the course of the season, that is.
I voted “I don’t like it, but they did what they had to do.”
It doesn’t bother me too much, but that was the closest option to how I felt. I agree with MJ – Clemens can be trusted and won’t abuse his privileges.
I wonder if you anonymously polled the Yankee team, what the percentages would be? I bet very similar to this fan base.
Fact is, the Yanks are desperate to make one last run at a title before Torre is gone, A-Rod walks, Mo gets too old and Pettitte retires. If they don’t win it this year, my guess is it will be a while. They did what they had to do.
Boy, “fact” is an awfully loose term these days, isn’t it? Kind of contradicts the actual meaning of the word.
As far as the perks go, when the critics of this clause can put up the kind of success that Clemens has (not much of a chance there) and command the respect he has earned over a long stellar career (which they won’t do by being whiny babies), THEN they can open their big yaps. Oh, and that goes for David Wells as well. I used to love the guy, but being in Boston obviously affected his head.
And for that matter, for the critics claim that it sends a message to younger players that they can expect the same kind of treatment – get off the crack, ok? Yeah, if they put up the numbers Clemens has, *then* they can talk to their employers about such perks. I think even these young kids can understand that distinction.
Who cares. He is going to be there when he pitches and in the dugout to help out the younger pitchers. He will help out in a lot of ways. He isn’t the saviour, but he will make the Yankees better and his pitching experience will be a great benefit to the other pitchers. People need to chill out and stop predicting doom for Clemens. He is Roger Clemens. Even at 45 he can pitch better than 80% of the starters out there now.
“I wonder if you anonymously polled the Yankee team, what the percentages would be? I bet very similar to this fan base.”
maybe. but probably just like the fanbase, their level of satifaction with the arrangement will be inversely proportional to his ERA.
It’s a potentially dangerous decision that may affect the attitudes of other Yankee veteran “stars” and may have repercussions on future negotiations with potential
free agent Yankees.
That said, however, its “what the market will bear” and the law of “supply and demand”. After the first month’s injury fiasco, Cashman was desperate for a front line starter to compete with the Red Sawx. No team is likely willing to trade this early in the season, and even if they did it would cost dearly in terms of young prospects.
I rationalize the “perks” by the fact that Clemens is a unique situation – for one season. A 45-year-old with a great work ethic, old-time baseball attitude, Hall of Famer, a mentor, who I really doubt will take his “perks” to an extreme.
He has close family ties and had stated upfront to the 3 teams of interest that he would only consider returning under the condition that he be able to visit his family during the season. Cashman accepted that. Deal Done.
Let’s move on and hope that he gives us 10-15 wins.
(I do hope, however, ARod doesn’t take something from the Clemens experience during his “opt out” negotiations.)
BTW didn’t Kevin Brown get “travel perks” in the form of
plane charters to Texas.
And how about Dice-K with his massage therapist, interpreter, plane tickets to Japan, and who know what else?
Um, they DID poll the team. They met with the veterans and made sure they were ok with it before pulling the trigger.
I love that it’s only a big deal now that he’s on the Yankees, yet it wasn’t when he was with Houston. And for people saying it isn’t the Yankee way, if George, Jetes, Pettitte, Posada, Joe, and Mo say it’s alright, who cares?
The fact of the matter is that nobody, including Clemens, knows how much time he’s going to spend away from the team. Just to shut up the whale and the other HOF pitcher who opened his mouth he could decide that, “Hey, I like this team. I’ll just hang with these guys all the time.” Pettitte is his BFF anyway.
Jealousy from other pitchers who would sign Clemens’ contract in a New York minute. Bitterness from ex-managers/teams who lost the Clemens lottery. I think Rogers’ teammates are o.k. with it. They all get paid big bucks and are on a mission. The younger guys are just geeked to be a Yankee and be in the presence of all that HOF talent.
Besides I like the redneck quality that Roger brings. I usually like the low-key, turn the other cheek method of dealing with passive-aggressive behavior. But I like how he’s responded to his critics. It’s like keep it coming, but don’t cry if I say something back you don’t like. Pretty soon everyone’s going to shut up cuz they don’t want to get embarrassed. Which is what they should’ve done in the first place. Can you imagine any of the Yankees making disparaging comments about a rival’s aquisition?
What EXACTLY ARE his travel privileges? Come and go anytime he wants? Or only certain days? Or get to use GS’s private jet too?
On a TV interview, he claimed he wasn’t aware of the family plan even after he signed. So depends who you believe… But since the team is run by the family now, who’s gonna say no.
I personally “don’t like it, but they had to do what they had to do.”
So instead of “Pride…Power…Tradition”, they should now say:
“The 2007 Yankees…Pride…Power…uh…Family”.
But what intrigues me is his little secret that he may reveal to all at the end of the year — on why he came back.
I think the perks are absurd, Cash is an idiot for agreeing to them and Clemens is an a-hole for asking for them.
The whole thing is just an ego-stroke for Clemens. Does anyone really believe that his heart will be broken if he’s away from his kids for one summer? He just spent 8 consecutive months with them and will be retired soon. I’m pretty sure they’re as sick of his fat face as he is of their’s, and I’ll bet if you asked him to name his youngest son’s best friend he’d say, “Ummmm ……Millhouse?”
“I love that it’s only a big deal now that he’s on the Yankees, yet it wasn’t when he was with Houston. And for people saying it isn’t the Yankee way, if George, Jetes, Pettitte, Posada, Joe, and Mo say it’s alright, who cares?”
exactly.
“(I do hope, however, ARod doesn’t take something from the Clemens experience during his “opt outâ€? negotiations.)”
well, it can’t really apply to a position player or a reliever, right??
“I think the perks are absurd, Cash is an idiot for agreeing to them and Clemens is an a-hole for asking for them.”
of course you do.
Why is Roger’s family more important than the family of any other team member?
Who cares what he does on his off days as long as he pitches every 5th day. I think it may be better for his strength if he doesn’t travel with the team.
This was also the perfect distraction for the demotion of Igawa who cost more money and is rightfully playing in single A!
However, it also distracts us Yankees fans from the recent Phil Hughes update that he may be back in 3-4 weeks. Oh yea, the guy that had a no hitter in his second major league outing!
Jonny –
I KNOW they asked the team (the veterans, anyway) for their input. I was light-heartedly suggesting what an ANONYMOUS poll of the whole team would yield.
As I said before I don’t care, but here is the one problem with the deal, when he was in Houston, it was assumed that he wouldn’t go on road trips that he wasn’t scheduled on to stay at home with his family in Houston. Minimizing the travel lowers the wear and tear and theoretically allowed Clemens to pitch better.
With the Yankees, if he is not going to go on a road trip and instead wants to spend that time with his family, then he will in fact have to travel to Houston which defeats the whole purpose of the freedom plan. This is the argument folks should be using against the plan.
I suspect Roger realizes this though and will not take advantage of the plan nor will he do anything to the detriment of hurting himself and costing the team wins on the days he is pitching.
I could use a little more information. Just what exactly do the perks constitute? In what manner is Clemens expected to use them? And what man or woman on these boards would not take full advantage of their bargaining position in any labor-related negotiation?
In other words. If they offer you some ‘perks’ at your job, would you refuse to accept them because it would be unfair to your co-workers? The latter question should be liberally applied to all the thinwitted sportswriters who have lost their minds over this. Particularly those who already enjoy better work conditions/advantages than some of their less accomplished breathren. Oh, wait, I forgot. We’re only supposed to apply these rigorous standards to athletes. Sorry. My bad.
Feh.
Annie — it definitely is more important to Roger. He doesn’t need the money, has a job in Houston once his career is over, and all he needs to do is pick out what suit to wear to his HoF induction. I’d open that option up to everyone who’s got 4000Ks and 340 wins.
So yes, Phil Hughes will get the same treatment in 20 years.
Marc,
I just read that Franchise is ahead of schedule and could be back in 3 1/2 weeks. God I know it’s been said before but a rotation of Wang, Clemens, Pettitte, Moose, and Hughes is GOOD. REAL GOOD.
Ladies and Gentleman…please direct your attention…to the paragraph below…for an important announcement…
How’s it going Yankee fans?!? Thank you….thanks…
Well, they came and got me out of Arizona…….And it’s a privilege to be back …You’ll be hearing from me again soon!!!
Randy,
I thought you wanted the camera out of your face?!!!
I know I’m a dolt for asking, but is Phil here to stay? Did his no-hit effort cement his position after all the “he needs to blah, blah, blah in the minors”? I guess what I’m asking is did everyone, with the exception of Pete Abe, sign off on this? If it’s true, this will really add to Hughes’ legacy.
Why did Joe say that Moose will be on a 85-90 pitch count if its been a month since his injury?
If clemens is going to pitch better because of that clause in his contract, than whatever. I don’t feel like it is a “yes, because he earned it” thing, so I voted for “i don’t know.”
I like how clemens commented that he didn’t even know the language was in the contract.
Pete
I’ve heard conflicting reports on this. Is the “family plan” actually part of the language of his contract? I heard that it is not and that it is more like an understanding that Clemens would be given flexibility in his schedule on days he is not scheduled to pitch or do pitching related activities.
When the Yankees left Fenway for 2 games in TB, Pettitte didn’t travel with the team. He came back to NY instead because he wasn’t scheduled to pitch in TB. Did any of his teammates have a problem with that?
d) it’s not my business, anyway.
the time signed off on it, torre, cashman, steinberenner, and all the players (especially pitchers) agreed to it. i don’t see why any of us should care one way or the other. and everyone who figures all the yankee players must have only agreed for fear of being portrayed as the bad guy in the media is projecting. i suppose that may be the case, but all we know is that they said it was ok. can we please take a group of seasoned vets like jeter, posada, rivera et all at their word?
Was it that big of a deal when Roger did it when he was with the Astros? I don’t remember anyone calling out the Houston organization for doing this. Bottom line is that we were in a desperate situation and Roger took advantage of that. Can you blame him? I don’t like it, but what are you gonna do. I have never been a Roger Clemens fan, but I will reluctantly root for him.
i think people are reading too much into this.
what are the “perks”? not traveling on road trips when he is not scheduled to pitch?
how many times is this actually going to come up?
Clemens is NOT going to be flying to Houston the day after he pitches and coming back the day before. he knows he has his bullpen sessions and other off-day workouts to perform.
my guess is there will be 4-5 days TOPS where he leaves the team the entire season.
Marc, probably just because he hasn’t pitched, needs to build up arm strength. That’s why he left early last week.
Everyone is forgetting an important piece of the Clemens thing. His older 2 sons are out of the house and his younger ones supposedly are coming to NY for the summer with him, so trips to Houston may not be necessary… or at least not as frequent.
“Why is Roger’s family more important than the family of any other team member?”
umm, position players and relievers have to be with the team at all times. that’s called common sense.
so now we have just reduced the list of “concerned” teammates to 3: Pettitte, Moose, and Wang. unless you think DeSalvo or Rasner are going to object to Roger Clemens’ schedule?
do you think Pettitte minds? maybe, those 2 hate each other.
Perfect topic… when u have nothing to write about
We’re not talking about a 30something free agent here. The Yankees aren’t going to start recruiting free agents with a list of tailored perks.
This is a special situation, one that the Yankees didn’t invent but are merely duplicating.The Astros gave Clemens this liberty and he came to expect it. The Red $ox would have done the same if they had been given the opportunity to make Clemens the 10th free agent pitcher on their 12 man staff.
Chris NY,
”
Marc, probably just because he hasn’t pitched, needs to build up arm strength. That’s why he left early last week.’
I am talking about tonight Moose is on a pitch count of 85-90 pitches, Joe said so.
At Florida State football, Coach Bowden was explaining why he didn’t suspend Sebastian Janikowski for something or other and he said that he had a special set of rules for Polish Place Kickers.
Same thing goes here, I think the Yankees can afford to have a special set of rules for 348 win, multiple Cy Young winners who are the best of the generation. Clemens lost a ton of games with the score of 0-1, 1-2 etc., I think he can hold down the 4 or 5 slot in the rotation. I’m just glad I don’t have to write his paycheck.
I just looked at the poll options, what exactly is the “Yankee Way”? Have the NY Yankees defined it or have others done it for them?
Marc, he’s still building strength this week too though. So they probably don’t want to push him too far tonight. I think he stopped around 60 pitches last week and he said he was tired. So they’re increasing it this week, but not up to a normal 100 or so pitches.
i think any pitcher who’s won 300 games can do what he wants on off days. it’s a non issue.
A very good question, Pat. Do we have a clue what goes on outside of the much written about “family plan?” Not really. Some of these guys have perks in their contracts that give them special treatment (besides $$$), hotel suites, private planes, whatever.. who knows. Does a Matt DeSalvo say, “Hey!! Why does Jeter get the penthouse and I get a double bed???” Of course not.
And someone mentioned above that starting pitchers often leave the team to get home or to the next location to get ready for their next start. They’re not all there all the time. And also something that has been stated over and over again, we don’t know how often he’ll actually leave the team and we didn’t invent this plan, just accepted it. Not much different than accepting A-Rod’s contract with an opt-out clause, if you think about it.
If Joe knew that Moose has a pitch count of 85 why did he use proctor & Henn last night, either use Henn for the 8th and 9th and save Proctor or use Vizcaino last night since it was an 8-1 game and have Proctor tonight in case of a close game.
I thought I asked you guys to leave me alone?
That part, Marc, I don’t have an answer for…
Pat,
One of the so-called experts, (Phillips maybe?), said this was counter-intuitive to the Yankee way. That everyone is asked to conform with the hair, facial hair thing. There are no individuals on the team, you’re a Yankee. All the experts say it was a desperation move by the Yankees. Duh! I think that losing out on Matsuzaka forced them to overbid. They did not want to lose out on yet another coveted pitcher (Schilling, Beckett, Dice-K) to the Sox. Hendricks knew it and got what he wanted.
The deal is done and that’s that.
Another thing, the Red Sox were going to give him the same perks. Does anyone think this would have been a big deal if he signed with them? No one cared when he was an Asstro either. It’s just so incredibly ridiculous that because he’s a Yankee it’s all of a sudden this terrible, awful thing. But whatever.
I was looking at a lot of Clemens Game Logs last year and damn did he pitch a lot. His pitch count, I’d say on an average, was about 90-100 pitches per game. So yes, he was a 5-7 inning starter, but we have to remember the DH rule in the AL and that there will be no pinch hitting for Clemens here so he can give us a solid 8 sometimes. Do I expect this? No, not all. But would it surprise me? No. So he is not going to be taxing our pen every game like everybody is thinking.
Marc,
Maybe Torre is thinking that with Proctor going to be suspended 2-4 games in the near future he can blow his arm out even more since he will be getting that rest. I don’t agree with it, but lately I don’t agree with anything Joe does regarding the pen.
I’ll admit….the last time we tried to get him, I was against it. This time around, with the shape of our rotation…Im all for it, if thats what got him here.
If we make the playoffs, I’d like to be a fly on the wall when they decide who the 4th starter will bet. I bet we will see clemens out of the bullpen in a big spot. after all we will need BP help to go all the way. Then again It might be andy on a throw day.
JJ
The Post said Phil Hughes is ahead of schedule and could be back in 3 1/2 weeks. Sometime shortly after Memorial Day we could have a 5 man rotation of Wang, Pettitte, Mussina, Clemens and Hughes. GAME ON BABY!!!!!!!
JJ, I was thinking the same thing the other day. Initially you would think it’d be the vet’s (Moose, Andy, Rocket) and Wang. But if Hughes comes back and dominates (which he may or may not, Texas was one game, but what a freaking game…), that would make for an interesting decision. Wang, Hughes and which 2 of the other 3? Tough call. I’d think who has the best ability to work from the pen would also play a part, some may be better suited than others. I think Clemens would be the worst one to be able to come out of the pen though, being able to pitch without any routine, warm up quickly, etc..
Chris,
If I remember correctly I think Clemens pitched 3 innings of bullpen relief in an Astro extra-inning playoff game 2 years ago, so that may always be an option. I would rather have a playoff rotation of Wang, Petitte, Moose, Clemens, and Hughes out of the pen. That would be sick, but too early for that now, one game at a time….
Drive 4-5, where did you find that? I wouldn’t get too excited until you see his name on the schedule.. never know with a hamstring injury.
When we get our rotation back, I’d love to see Rasner go into the pen as a fresh arm.
Don’t know if anyone’s noticed, but Tyler Clippard seems to have gotten his act together at Scranton. He’s gone 7 innings in his last 2 starts with 20 strikeouts, only 4 walks and 1 run allowed.
Tonights lineup:
There’s a little different look to the lineup today for the Yankees. Jason Giambi is out, apparently b/c of the bone spur in his left foot.
Johnny Damon DH (he’s fine, just there b/c Giambi’s out)
Bobby Abreu RF (has hit second in just 24 games of 1516 in his career, has hit third 983 games)
Derek Jeter SS (in just 102 of 1709 games has he batted 3rd, with 1009 in No. 2 slot and 439 leading off)
Alex Rodriguez 3B
Hideki Matsui LF
Robinson Cano 2B
Melky Cabrera CF
Doug Mientkiewicz 1B
Wil Nieves C
Chris-NY… It was in today’s New York Post
couldn’t find it online, but didn’t have time to read all the articles, was it mentioned within one of the others or an article of its own?
I liked it better when the Yankees had pride. He’s not the only one with a family, they don’t get these “perks”.
Clay, I think you’re right. And Mussina did it in game 7 of the ALCS against the sux in ‘03, Pettitte this year… I guess they could all do it. My guess would be the Veterans plus Wang would be the starting 4, but if Hughes is flat out nasty, hard to keep from starting him. Would be an interesting “problem” to have, but like you said, 1 game at a time.
Chris NY- It was in the Yankee notes section of today’s Post. It also said that Hughes threw of flat ground yesterday and Hughes said his leg feels much better. I’m sure they won’t rush him. But we can’t help but be excited about our rotation come June.
Also, I saw Tyler Clippard pitch in Tampa and was very impressed. At that time, I thought he was ahead of Hughes as far as locating his pitches and working major league hitters. I’d be surprised if Clippard doesn’t turn into a serviceable major league pitcher in the next 2 years.
Good stuff.
Re: all the discussion about Clemens probably only giving us 5 (6 tops) innings. How about this idea – instead of using a procession of Henn, Vizcaino, Proctor, Rivera every time Roger starts, use a “shadow” #6 starter ( Rasner, DeSalvo, Karstens, Igawa ?) to relieve Clemens and be expected to pitch 2-3-4 innings ? Any comments ?
Astro’s manager, Phile Garner, was interviewed the other day and asked about the Clemens arrangement he had there. He indicated that at first it was OK… but as time went on, it became a bit of a distraction. He said, it was a bit uncomfortable when the guys in the clubhouse would look up at a TV and see Clemens being interviewed on a golf course somewhere.
I think as long as this team is winning, and Clemens is a solid contributor, we’ll be OK. But if the chips are down, like they were here for the past several weeks, this could lead to problems.
Zander,
Interesting idea, but if Clemens is up 2-1 in the 6th and needs to come out, do you really want one of those 4, or do you want Proctor or Bruney?
*PHIL Garner. Sorry about that.
Mantle used to have a “caddy” (Jack Reed) to replace him late in games. Can’t Roger have one as a “perk” that would actually help the team?
Clay Bellinger:
Good point, in a one run game you’d want your “trusted” guys. But if it’s 7-2 either way, you use Rasner and save the pen.
BTW, are you in shape? I know you’re a better utility IF than Shrek (Miguel Cairo).
Part of what I’m about to say may be wishful thinking, but here goes. Compare Clemens’ age and stats to those of Randy Johnson before he became a Yankee. I’d say that it seemed much more likely that Johnson would be a major contributor (both in quality and quantity). That was certainly my fear. But age caught up with Johnson.
I just don’t see Clemens as being a major factor. And if the Yankees are still playing in October, his recent track record has been that he wears down. That’s one reason that the Sox only wanted him in July ….. to try to get him to the finish line.
Re: His perks …. I think it’s shameful. His resume is spectacular, but was predominantly constructed with other teams. I don’t see that the Yankees owe him as much veneration as he’s received (especially in light of the way they treated Bernie Williams).
If Jeter, Rivera, A-Rod, etc… don’t care, then I don’t care. From my understanding, Clemens will still be at a lot of games, and will just have the option to not be with the team. I expect this mostly to be a factor when the Yankees are down south, and near his son or his family anyways.
Compared to Pavano, the option is nothing…
Can we just end this Clemens hate fest. What happened to being supportive of your team?
I am starting to understand why Red Sox fans hate Yankees fans. I am seeing a lot of the things they say about us, here with some of you.
Can we please all remember that many times a pitcher will stay home and not travel if they don’t have a start on the road. All teams do it. It’s good for the pitcher to get that rest. It is good for Clemens to be a supportive influence in his kids lives. You can see how much he loves them and supports them when he talks about them. I wish more fathers were like that.
Clemens is good for the team. Him not having to travel if he isn’t pitching is good for Clemens and will get him to pitch better. Stop being spoiled little brats and honestly, STFU already.
Torre is a great mananger. Cashman is a great GM that has turned our farm system from the 24th worst to the 7th best currently and in only 3 years. There have been bad trades, but not because he picked up bad players, but the players didn’t have the mental fortitude to handle NY. Tis life in the Bronx.
Get over yourselves.