A few items from the stat sheets
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on May 10, 2007 
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To the sounds of the Paul Simon box set …
To be a baseball beat writer is to live in constant fear of needing to come up with a story. There could be rain or extra space in the paper or just about anything.
To try and head this off, most of us keep some kind of day-to-day stats of the team. This enables you to spot trends and come up with occasional notes.
This is what I have at the moment:
The Yankees have 30 doubles in the last nine games. They had 32 in the first 23 games.
Derek Jeter went 0 for 6 on Friday, snapping his hitting streak at 20 games. He is 10 for 20 with seven RBI since.
Doug “The Iron Horse” Mientkiewicz has hit safely in eight straight games at 11 of 27 (.407). He has scored eight runs, driven in eight runs and struck out only once in that stretch. His batting average has gome from .140 to .234.
Alex Rodriguez had been hit by a pitch four times in the last eight games. The Yankees as a team have been hit 21 times. A-Rod, Giambi and Jeter account for 13 of the HBPs. Yankee pitchers have hit opposing batters 12 times. That disparity can’t make the hitters happy.
The Yankees have a team ERA of 1.60 ERA in the last five games. They’ve needed the bullpen only 11.1 innings during that stretch.
Mariano Rivera has allowed 10 earned runs. He allowed his 10th earned run on July 14 last season and 15 all season. Mo allowed 12 earned runs in 2005.
Meanwhile, Kevin Devaney was at the Stadium for the Journal News tonight. He informs us that Jason Giambi will get his left foot examined before today’s game. It’s just precautionary.
Pete,
Thanks for keeping us nightowls informed and entertained.
yes indeed, thank you. that mariano stat is a bit worrysome isn’t it?
lets watch and marvel as mo only gives up 15 ER this year
I don’t know if DennisASSMUSCLE read this on “mussina making a difference” so I copied and pasted.
Hey DennisASSMUSCLE, just because you are getting nervous that we are finally looking like the team of old and realizing that your best bet is the wild card if that, doesn’t mean you have to come in here and take away from the success we are having and taint it. If you notice, no one was speaking of the redcox(not a typo) before you because we aren’t worried about them, we worry of our own team and we know that as long we play like we should from now, we will win the east like we should. To reply to your “6 game lead is VERY significant” if boston at 100% swept us when we weren’t running in all cylinders, we can definitely sweep them when we are 100% which will cut the lead to 3 which is NOT significant and besides it’s not like we haven’t been in 2nd and boston in 1st just so at the end boston ends up at 3rd and us at 1st…so enjoy it while it lasts. BTW I’m not even going to bring up the fact how Wang, Pettite, Clemens, Mussina and Hughes makes not only our offense better than yours but also our starting pitching. Also, if you do the research you’ll realize the times where Rivera has given up a few runs, he didn’t pitch for 4 days prior to that so all he needs is consistency and since they realized this and are giving him consistent work now he’ll be fine, I would start worrying if his velocity was down but it’s not.
hey pete what do you think if torre made this jeter abreu switch permanetely?
jeters #s in the 3 hole speak for themself, and as long as abreu is not hitting for power, i like this lineup better
What always strikes me as funny though, is that when Yankee fans bring up the injuries this year, replies from Boston fans are almost invariably “well, it’s your turn, we were ravaged by injuries last year”. What? Because they had to play a series against the Yankees without Varitek, and Papi and Manny had problems when the Yanks couldn’t be caught anymore anyway? Please. We were without 2/3 of our outfield in May. This year, it’s the first time this season that 3/5ths of our starting rotation has NOT been on the DL. I’m wondering how Sox fans would respond to missing Schilling, Beckett, and let’s say Tavarez for 4-6 weeks.
Speaking of #’s, they showed a graphic about Jeter hitting with RISP and 2 outs – it was something crazy like .580 and then he singled to left to drive in those 2 runs and now he’s probably over .600
And Sean, that’s the definition of CLUTCH!
As much as I like Will Neives, he really needs to do something about his lack of offence. It also appears that Mussina like pitching to a catcher that won’t argue with his pitch selections. If that keeps him winning games then so be it.
Peter,
I saw the Kim Jones interview with Wil after the game. What is he like in the clubhouse? What do the other players think of him? Jeter seemed to take great pleaseure in joking with him about the hit.
thx.
Jeter likes joking with anyone but Chad Curtis, it seems, but Nieves does seem to be well-liked among the players.
The Times is reporting that Hughes’ injury may not be as bad as first thought – WOO HOO!
“The rookie starter Phil Hughes was expected to be out for four to six weeks with a pulled hamstring, but the injury may not be as bad as first thought. “Hughes is fine,â€? Manager Joe Torre said. “He’ll have a rehab start, probably.â€? But Torre was not specific about a timetable for Hughes’s return.”
Who cares if Nieves hits?
Hes a backup catcher and apparently he calls a great game. Really knows how to frame a pitch. His first job is defense. If we are relying on him to hit 300, then we’re already in trouble.
If hes out biggest problem I’ll gladly sign up for that
“Quote from Jeff “Sourpuss” Louderbeck of Sox and Pinstripes
http://soxandpinstripes.typepa.....l#comments
“I think that once the Yankees string of 14 games against Seattle and Texas is over, and they return to a more challenging schedule, their weaknesses (mediocre starting pitching, awful bullpen) will be exposed. In the meantime, I imagine they will keep pace for the remainder of their games against Seattle. It will be a different story once they play the White Sox, Mets, Red Sox and Angels later this month. But at least this stretch has given Yankees fans some hope and brought them off the ledge!”
Hey Faiaz, I agree that with Clemens in your starting rotation it will improve. However, there are a lot of baseball people (who are neither Yankee or Red Sox fans) that would not agree that the rotation of Wang, Petitte, Clemens, Mussina, and Hughes is better than Schilling, Beckett, Dice-K, Wakefield, and Lester who will be in the Sox rotation as soon or sooner than Hughes is back in the Yankee rotation. Granted things can change but right now Schilling is pitching good, Beckett has the best record of any pitcher in the majors, Dice-K looked good last night, and Wakefield has one of the lowest ERA’s in baseball.
“Speaking of #’s, they showed a graphic about Jeter hitting with RISP and 2 outs – it was something crazy like .580 and then he singled to left to drive in those 2 runs and now he’s probably over .600″
jeter is really heating up. it couldn’t come at a better time.
2 outs, RISP: .600/.647/.733
but that’s only the SECOND best OPS on the team in those situations:
A-Rod: .533/.588/1.600
Jeter’s numbers are even more impressive when you consider that he is a vastly over-rated baseball player. At least that’s what Yankee haters keep telling me.
“Alex Rodriguez had been hit by a pitch four times in the last eight games. The Yankees as a team have been hit 21 times. A-Rod, Giambi and Jeter account for 13 of the HBPs. Yankee pitchers have hit opposing batters 12 times. That disparity can’t make the hitters happy.”
This is one area where Clemens will make a measurable difference.
hmmm, as a Sox fan I have always been far more nervous about Jeter than Arod in key situations. I give him all the credit in the world. Arod has had some key hits this year but until he does it in the playoffs which has been a total bust in the last two years he won’t have the total respect of even Yankees fans who themselves nearly booed him off the field last year!
Ray ray go away, come again another day
these numbers mean little unless you compare them to those from the Sox.
“these numbers mean little unless you compare them to those from the Sox.”
that doesn’t make sense.
Ray the stats speak for themselves. I can’t really see where Redsox win when we compare pitching
Shilling vs. Clemens
Shilling – 211 Wins/139 Losses – 3.44 Career ERA
Clemens – 348 Win/ 178 Losses – 3.10 Career ERA (2.30 ERA in 2006)
Yanks Win this one
Beckett vs. Pettitte
Beckett – 64 Win/ 45 Losses – 3.78 Career ERA (Beckett also had a 5.01 ERA last year, 2.51 ERA in 2007)
Pettitte – 188 Win/ 105 Losses – 3.79 Career ERA (2.72 ERA in 2007)
Push
Mussina vs. Wakefield
Wakefield – 154 Wins/ 136 Losses – 4.27 ERA
Mussina – 241 Win/ 135 Losses – 3.64 ERA (3.51 ERA in 2006)
Yanks win again
Dice-K vs. Wanger
Dice-K – Rookie with 4.80 ERA
Wanger – 28 Wins/ 13 Losses – 3.78 Career ERA (3.63 ERA IN 2006, Cy Yound Runner-Up)
Yanks by alot
Lester vs. Hughes (Both on DL)
Lester – yet to pitch in 2007 (4.76 ERA in 2006)
Hughes – Rookie with 3.38 ERA
Push – yet to see enough of either to determine long-term MLB effectiveness
Also, I am laughing at your unbiased opinion that Jeter is not a clutch player. I think you might want to reconsider that notion, or maybe put some facts behind your statement like Jeter has a 0.314 Batting Average in 24 post-season series.
reyngarwighip,
Why do we have to match the SOX its MAY!
Our first step was getting to .500 and we have done that, now its surviving the next 3 weeks until we have the best rotation in baseball and then we can worry about the Sox.
I don’t understand what’s the big deal of having Ray here. He’s not disparaging the Yankees or any of it’s members, he’s offering an opinion and a clear and open one at that. He’s not berating anyone nor is his tone condescending. What’s wrong with a friendly open debate or opinion for other fans? As long as he keeps himself on a friendly and non-berating manner (unlike some of the overly pessimistic “Yankee fans” on this blog) what’s wrong with debating with him?
Sunny615-
I have no problem with Sox fans trolling our Yankee board. I welcome the debate. I just would like to see some stats and objectiveness before you start throwing mud on players and pitching staffs.
Ok so I looked at the standings, there are 3 teams with fairly better records than the Yankees, The BlowSux, Tiggers and Native Americans. Assuming the BlowSux are great, they finish with the top 5 votes for the Cy Young, Papelbon magically is healthy all year, Manny stays on his happy pills, Ortiz doesn’t get caught for HGH, Sockpainter doesn’t get his ass kicked by Bonds, the rest of the lineup turns into All stars, and the Red Sox don’t self detruct like every other year, then we won’t catch them.
The Tiggers are tough too, no question. The Native Americans though are playing over there heads right now and with a tough division they will have a lot of trouble maintaining their pace.
Good news is the Yankees only need to catch one of those teams, not all 3, to make the playoffs. And with the Yankees playing like the Yankees lately and Clemens and Hughes coming soon, there is no reason to believe we won’t catch one of those three teams. So there is plenty of hope for this year.
I’m sure it wouldn’t take much digging on the Sox boards to find some projections having Lester turning into a Cy Young contender over the 2nd half. My own brother was recently telling me how some “scout friend who works for the Blue Jays” was saying how Lester was rated as the #1 starter in all of minor league ball 2 years ago (with Hughes #2). Let’s just say my brother is on the gullible side.
“Also, I am laughing at your unbiased opinion that Jeter is not a clutch player.”
i don’t see where anyone said that.
CT_Chris, I don’t think he was throwing mud, just disagreeing with the fact that everyone claims the renewed Yankees staff will be the best in baseball. Arguably, the Sox’s rotation is nothing to sneeze at at the moment and that’s all he’s saying. I got nothing from his comment that our staff was dirt and we wouldn’t win another game with those starters.
Ray said: “Granted things can change but right now Schilling is pitching good, Beckett has the best record of any pitcher in the majors, Dice-K looked good last night, and Wakefield has one of the lowest ERA’s in baseball.”
Is any of that a lie? No. As a Yankee fan, I would agree that the new rotation of Wang, Clemens, Moose, Pettitte, and Hughes looks stellar, but right now the Schilling, Beckett, Wakefield, Tavarez, and Lester, is proven (with the exception of lester). They have the best record in baseball (fact) and that’s in no small part to their rotation. His comments also were opinions and it’s fair to judge them based on his POV, as we have ours. If our rotation stabilizes and stays healthy and our lineup keeps producing, we may well be the best TEAM in baseball, whether or not we have the best rotation in baseball. But again, these are my opinions and I an open to debating my POV with anyone.
that’s right – Ray said this: “as a Sox fan I have always been far more nervous about Jeter than Arod in key situations. I give him all the credit in the world.”
As the trend of A-Rod getting hit continues, its time Joe Torre grew a set and had his pitchers retaliate. Doesn’t matter if it’s by accident. For a guy who played in the ’70s, Torre just doesn’t get it.
Proctor retaliated on Sunday in an idiotic situation. Phelps did go out of his way to get Johjima and he took what he deserved like a man.
Yet every time a Yankee batter gets hit by a pitch, nothing happens. I’m not advocating head hunting or starting bean ball wars, but protect your players.
The Yanks pitching staff needs to start drinking some “rocket fuel” and put some of the the opposing batters on their azz. Even the Drays and Mariners are not afraid to pitch inside because our guys aren’t going to retaliate. Protors suspension was a small price to pay to protect ARod and Jeter.
I agree with Drew – retaliate if our guys get hit, but better be sure they deserve it first.
A-Rod has looked pretty irritated the last few times he’s gotten hit. he is definitely getting tired of it.
Earth to Peter….Come in Peter.
Your beating up Texas…enough said!
Seattle will sweep you this weekend in Seattle! and they’re not even that good!!!!
Typical Joe Torre …
the guy just can’t help himself. We get another good outing from a starter-Mussina goes 6full inn. An accomplishment for him and any Yankee starter. So what does Joe do? He uses 5(FIVE) more pitchers outta the pen to finish up a 6-2 game. This is exactly why all these other pitching issues are irrelevant,including Clemens. Torre wear these guys out and there is nothing left come sept/oct
Bruney put two men on with one out. Brought in Myers to face a lefty and Proctor a righty. They got out of the inning with no runs. I’m happy with that.
Next time – Moose throws 100 pitches and goes 7 or 8. Let’s not forget we’re trying to get these guys back on track after Mr. Performance Dehancer popped all their hammies.
Just for the record, our bullpen has not cost us any playoff series as far as I can remember. Arguably Gordona nd mo against the Blosox but had the hitting been a little better and we had a slightly deeper starting pitching staff it would not have been an issue.
Don’t the Yankees have a press department that tracks stats like those and distributes them to all the beat writers? In my limited experience of covering college sports, it seemed like it was always someone else’s job to cover the silly arcane trivia.
Who cares, mj? None of those 5 pitchers threw a lot of pitches. They will all be ready to pitch tomorrow and I’m sure they’ll do a fine job if they have to. Plus, we’ve got our ace going and we’ve still got fresh arms in Henn and Vizcaino if you’re worried about the bullpen’s endurance.
The fact of the matter is, Bruney allowed 2 baserunners and Wilkerson had just homered earlier in the game. A 6-2 lead is much easier to protect than a 6-5 lead, especially with the way Mo has been struggling lately. So Torre calculated and won this time.
Under normal circumstances, I think Torre leaves Proctor in to pitch the 8th, but he had thrown almost 30 pitches the day before, so it was better to leave it up to Farnsworth, who didn’t disappoint. No reason to complain, in my opinion.
I shudder to think what the HBP for/against stats have been over the past few years, especially in games against the Red Sox. It sickens me that Ortiz and Manny have continued to comfortably dig in the batter’s box with no fear. At the very least, I hope Clemens can change that somewhat. And is it me, or did it seem that even Randy Johnson didn’t protect the hitters, at least not like he used to??
Jeff – 2001 and 2004. That’s all I’m going to say.
mj4,
You’re obviously not following the team very carefully. Moose just had his SECOND start last night. He was on a pitch count limit. Torre isn’t going to put him in for longer than he’s comfortably able to pitch.
There was no reason for Torre to use as many pitchers as he did last night. Proctor could have worked the 8th too..he threw 4 pitches! Then use Farnsworth or Mo in the 9th. You have a day game today, which means that Farnsworth is probably unavailable now.
Here’s a little fun with numbers: Strength of Schedule through last night: Yankees (5th hardest schedule), Red Sox (26th hardest schedule)
When A-Rod gets hit with a glancing blow on the side of the elbow by a mediocre pitcher, I don’t think it matches, say, the insult of Don Drysdale knocking NL batters down twice so they’d know the first one wasn’t a mistake, or Dock Ellis hitting Reggie Jackson in the face with a fastball because of a long all star game homer several years before.
You just don’t hit someone because a bad pitcher missed his spot.
Torre was hit 10 times in 1973:
April 6 (no retaliation)
June 13 (no retaliation)
June 17 (no retaliation)
July 2 (no retaliation)
July 28 (no retaliation)
July 31 (no retaliation; Mike Jorgensen hit in 4th for MTL, Torre hit in 8th)
August 1 (no retaliation)
August 9 (no retaliation)
August 12 (in possible retaliation? Torre hit 6 batters after Ed Crosby of CIN hit)
August 19 (no retaliation)
In summary: the comments that Joe Torre should “grow a pair” are unwarranted, and show a misunderstanding of the history of intimidation in baseball. It’s not a tit for tat arrangement.
“There was no reason for Torre to use as many pitchers as he did last night. Proctor could have worked the 8th too..he threw 4 pitches! Then use Farnsworth or Mo in the 9th. You have a day game today, which means that Farnsworth is probably unavailable now.”
As someone pointed out Proctor threw a lot of pitches the day before, so no need to stretch him out for the 8th. He only had to get one batter, which he did. And who else would you have gone to in that spot, certainly not Vizcaino. Plus Farnsworth needs to get some work in, as did Mo, thats why they pitched the 8th and 9th. And finally, it seems so far this year the yankees aren’t afraid to pitch Fransworth in back to back games. So no reason to say he’s unavaliable tonight. I had no problem with the way Torre used the pen last night.
If Bruney could of gone 1-2-3, Proctor and myers would of had the night off. But when Bruney started walking batters, thats when he got pulled, rightfully so.
Drew:
You also have Wang going today. I would have stuck with Bruney for another batter, because it’s May, and because I have a four run lead. But I guess when you’re 6 out and looking up at .500, you take him out. But the blame should be laid squarely at his feet. If he does his job, none of that Myers nonsense.
Hahaha, but halfz, blaming the baseball players themselves isn’t in style anymore. Only the manager is to blame nowadays. You seem to have forgotten that!
Bruney works out of trouble, he walks people but gets out of jams. he has the lowest ERA at about 2 and most of the runs were given up by the guy that replaces him.
Proctor should accept the suspension now that his arm is falling off!
I think Joe hopes that Wang comming off a near perfect game will pitch 8 innings and Moe for the ninth.
CT Chris …. I think the Yankees projected rotation is better than it is often given credit for. However your statistical “comparison” of the two staffs is statistically incoherent. I believe that you’re using lifetime stats as an indicator of today’s effectiveness. That methodology is bogus.
If the Yankees were to acquire Warren Spahn, I guess that their rotation would be even better (using your mindset). The fact is that some subjectivity comes into play in evaluating the respective staffs, wherein you should examine present performance and estimate the likelihood of improvement or deterioration. Using the “upside” of Dice-K and Beckett (both 26), I like the Boston starters by a slight margin over that of the Yankees.
I think Proctor’s appeal is not to get out of the suspension but to extend the suspension a few days so he can protect himself from Torre.
Marc:
Maybe he does work out of it, but when almost every game is a must win now, you don’t take as many chances. If the batter wasn’t a lefty, then I think Bruney does stay in. But Myers made sense in that situation, and of course Proctor was needed for the last righty.
Also I haven’t heard Proctor say his arm is falling off so far this year, so until I do I’m going to assume he feels fine. His innings are up there, no doubt about that, but the same can be said for a lot of other guys in baseball ie Okajima and Sheilds. And both those guys are pretty good. And throwing 8 pitches isn’t going to kill a pitcher either. If he stayed to pitch the 8th then that would be a different story.
Sturtze never complained about his arm and look what happened to him. Beleive me, most pitchers aren’t going to say they can’t pitch, no matter how their arm feels.
Lets see some numbers on intentional HPB before we talk about retaliation. If a wild pitcher hits our hitter and puts him on base, score the run, don’t worry about putting one of their hitters on base.
IMO Sturtze arm problems started in a game where the Yankees used him as a spot starter. He had finally got used to pitching an inning or two at a time, and then he was forced to try and go 5. I even recall him admitting that he overextended himself in that start. Now you can blame Torre or Cashman or even the pitching coach(Mel) if that is true.
I don’t have the figures in front of me, and I know Sturtze did pitch a fair amount of games in ’05, but I really don’t recall him pitching as much as Proctor did last year. So if you can give me those figures then I’ll retract my statement.
Also I’m sure if you asked any pitcher I bet they rather be overused than under used.
“halfz
Drew:
You also have Wang going today. I would have stuck with Bruney for another batter, because it’s May, and because I have a four run lead. But I guess when you’re 6 out and looking up at .500, you take him out. But the blame should be laid squarely at his feet. If he does his job, none of that Myers nonsense.”
halfz, I agree with you. In years past, Torre might have stuck with Bruney, but he’s defintely panicking a bit because of the rough start and all of the rumors. I can understand where he’s coming from, but that doesn’t mean I agree with it.
I would say the “retaliation” argument is warranted and justified, to some extent. I think it shows an outward sense of team unity.
a good point was made about Proctor’s retailiation – he, more than likely, didn’t see Phelps plow over the Mariners catcher “when he really didn’t have to.” He did see Phelps get hit, and probably presumed that it was in response for it. So, he retailiated.
I like that. One guy on the mound standing up for another guy on the field/in the dugout. That shows solidarity.
now, obviously, I don’t want anyone to get hit in the head/face. That’s taking it too far. But the numbers that Pete, gave… if I knew those off-hand, and I was a hitter – especially A-Rod – yeah, I’d want our guys to at least get mad about it, and feel the need to reply in kind.
if other teams do it for intimidation factors, why wouldn’t we do it as a response that we won’t/can’t be intimidated?
this is where I think “the Yankee Way” – aka, business as usual, love thy union member as thyself – should take a backseat to knock-down (literally) competition.
“halfz
In summary: the comments that Joe Torre should “grow a pairâ€? are unwarranted, and show a misunderstanding of the history of intimidation in baseball. It’s not a tit for tat arrangement.”
Actually I completely understand the art of intimidation. That has nothing to do with protecting your players. When Bob Gibson wanted you off the plate, you got off the plate. This is about never, and I mean never, answering when a Yankee batter gets hit. You have to protect your players, and no I am not talking about every single time a guy gets hit. But when you are constantly hit by the same team, something has to be done.
Look at how many times Lou Piniella had the Mariners throw at Paul O’Neill. Torre never retaliated.
CT..I think you misunderstood my comments about Jeter. My point was that I acknowledge as a Sox fan that Jeter is one of best clutch players in baseball, and for that reason when the Red Sox play the Yankees I worry a lot more about Jeter than Arod. I wasn’t dissing Jeter at all.
StandingO’Neill,
You said, “Also I haven’t heard Proctor say his arm is falling off so far this year, so until I do I’m going to assume he feels fine.”
All I’m saying is that just because he’s not saying anything doesn’t necessarily mean he feels fine. I don’t think he’s hurt or anything, but I’m sure there have been plenty of times this season where he’s pitched with a sore shoulder. Don’t forget that Sturtze went on the DL with a tired shoulder, which stems from overuse. Let’s also not forget that Sturtze never refused the ball.
peter abraham- “Alex Rodriguez had been hit by a pitch four times in the last eight games. The Yankees as a team have been hit 21 times. A-Rod, Giambi and Jeter account for 13 of the HBPs. Yankee pitchers have hit opposing batters 12 times. That disparity can’t make the hitters happy”
i think that disparity is going to change. a key combination of events took place that signaled a change in attitude when phelps took out johjima and procter backed up phelps by retaliating immediately . i don’t think that disparity in hit batters is going to continue. clemens was ironically waiting in the wings to annouce his signing as phelps and procter did their thing.
I guess it’s easier to make those kinds of decisions about who to use in the pen and when – when you have a pen coach, pitching coach and the pitchers themselves telling you things you need to know. As fans and spectators, we’re just guessing and Torre probably knows more about the players based on their comments, coaches observations and his own observations during pre game warmups and practice. Every comment/suggestion we make here is pure speculation – unless one of you has the cell phone numbers of Myers, Proctor, Bruney, Farnsworth, Rivera, and Vizcaino that we don’t know about.
I actually do have all their cell phone numbers, and I talk to them individually for 20 minutes every day. I give them advice on how to throw better pitches, and how to work the counts. I then call Jeter and coach him on hitting before meeting Damon on a practice field and hit fly balls to him. I also tutor Posada on how to call games. Then before my day is out, I make a pass around Yankee stadium to make sure Marty Miller isn’t lurking around.
You lucky dog!!! If you see MM, smack him some for me and pop his hammy.
“Don’t forget that Sturtze went on the DL with a tired shoulder, which stems from overuse. Let’s also not forget that Sturtze never refused the ball.”
Let’s also not forget that Sturtze was a terrible pitcher.
if Torre used Sturze a lot while he was the “hot hand”, i don’t really have a problem with that. if you used his entire career as a guide, his effectiveness was likely to revert soon enough. credit torre with trying to squeeze innings out of the guy while he could. obviously, i don’t advocate using the guy until he gets hurt, i just think this storyline that Sturtze was a good reliever that Torre “ruined” is a little off-base.
Keep up the good work Fernando!
I’ll say one thing about retaliation. It is more important to win games (ie avoid suspensions) than it is to get even. However there is a right time, for example after Dice K hit A Rod then later Jeter I said the 3rd guy up who happenned to be Ortiz should be hit if there were two outs no one on. Instead Chase Wright pitched to him and Ortiz hit it out as did the next 3 players. I think all of us would agree that if he did hit him, and even if Chase got suspended 4 games, it would have been worth it.
DOn’t confuse retaliation with throwing inside, which is a very important part of pitching. Anyone see Moose stand up Sosa yesterday than strike him out with a slider away on the next pitch? It was the exact perfect use of pitching inside.
As far as retaliation, you have to do it smartly and have your head in the game. Proctor should not have been throwing at him, because it was settled and now we’re going to lose Proctor for 4 games and already lost Torre for 1. Think Torre would have been afraid to argue that call at 2nd that day?
No, Jeff. Wrong. Proctor was absolutely right in throwing at Betancourt. The Yankees have been getting hit all season, and just like Randy Johnson last year, somebody needed to show that we aren’t afraid to do the same. We’re not gonna let some goons from mediocre teams think they can get an edge by hurting our players.
It’s entirely possible that the ball got away from Proctor and he threw more inside than he intended. But we don’t know that, of course.
Arguing the call wouldn’t have changed it. There is no point in citing Torre’s suspension as a reason for losing that game. As for Proctor…honestly, who here is really complaining about Proctor getting 4 days of rest? The guy can certainly use it, and the rest of the pitching staff has been getting it together, so they should be fine.
“Think Torre would have been afraid to argue that call at 2nd that day?”
yes, he would have strolled out of the dugout, asked what happened, shook his head and walked back to the dugout.
when is the last time Torre flipped out?
also, i’m not sure what your point is. do you think they would have reversed the call or something?
““Think Torre would have been afraid to argue that call at 2nd that day?â€?
yes, he would have strolled out of the dugout, asked what happened, shook his head and walked back to the dugout.
when is the last time Torre flipped out?
also, i’m not sure what your point is. do you think they would have reversed the call or something?”
A manager can’t go out and argue what he can’t see and none of his players show any signs of disagreement.
The HBP stats might just mean the Yanks have faced alot of pitchers with bad control, arent afraid to get near the plate and see alot of pitches. If you want to talk about retaliation, talk about specific at bats where the pitcher clearly intended to hit the batter. Retaliating because we get hit alot is mindless and counterproductive.
“Anyone see Moose stand up Sosa yesterday than strike him out with a slider away on the next pitch? It was the exact perfect use of pitching inside”
that was beautiful to see.when even the pacifistic mike mussina does that you know the yankees are playing with some attitude.i agree that’s the right way to intimidate. the link between pitching aggresively up and in and retaliation is simply attitude. it takes attitude to do both.
it also takes a pitcher with control and command to do both without getting a reputation for being a head hunter. mussina has shown a bit of feistiness lately. he actually said clemens is no longer a number one and more of a three starter. he was sticking up for clemens as not having to be the savior, but i think his competitive juices are being fired up by having clemens back. not a bad thing.
Hey Sunny. Thank you for your acceptance of a non-Yankees fan on here. My best friend grew up in New York and is an avid Yankee fan. We have a great time with good natured arguments and discussions. It would be a boring world if everyone was a Yankees fan…and dare I say it…even if everyone was a Red Sox fan!
Jeff, I agree with you on your comments about retaliation. It should be done with the express understanding that there may be consequences, some of which may be detrimental to the team. But that is a line worth walking finely on, if it’s detrimental to the team if we DON’T retalitate. Which is what Pete was referring to, presumably.
wouldn’t have mattered who came out to argue the call – it wasn’t going to be turned over. Unless the home plate ump saw the tag applied, and obviously he did not.
No sweat Ray. I for one, am all for open and honest discussions about teams even and/or especially from fans of other teams. There’s no reason that all of us here can’t enjoy a good debate on who’s got the better team (we do of course).
Who can forget that great season battle for MVP Arod or Papi? That was a good time.
I look forward to a long and fun season and all the great debates that come with it!
Okay, is anyone else upset by the fact that Peter has now compared Doug Mientkiewicz to Lou Gherig twice in the past few days?
Peter, this not okay. This is ridiculous. Their names should not even be used in the same sentence. Doug will never come close to what that man was as a player and a person.
Stupid, stupid comparison.
I like Doug for my own part, but this kind of thing is insulting to number 4.