Wrapping it up at Shea Stadium
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Podcast on May 19, 2007 
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The clubhouse was a quiet place after the game as you might imagine. Brian Cashman defended his manager and coaching staff. Joe Torre reached deep into the cliche vault for assorted “it’ll get better” phases and the players seemed stunned.
What are the odds of two pitchers getting hit by line drives and breaking bones? Or a pitcher having to leave a no-hitter in the seventh inning because of a blown hamstring? Or Johnny Damon letting a ball bounce out of his glove and over the fence?
But the Yankees are 1-7 against the Mets and Red Sox and 4-13 in games decided by one or two runs. Even if George Steinbrenner isn’t the old Boss, those around him don’t need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.
Something has to change or changes will be made.
Here is Joe Torre:
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Brian Cashman:
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And Jorge Posada:
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Thanks for reading. Catch you tomorrow.
When we get pitching we don’t get hitting, when we get hitting we don’t get pitching, so yes it has to get better, we need to take this next games against the Mets and take 2/3 from the Red Sox, and we have our 1-3 vs the Sox and they have there 4-1, so we can take all 3, even if we don’t win the East we will be there in the end for the Wild Card, but we will heat up sometime and the Red Sox are due to slow down, but if we were to lose the East and win the Wild Card, Wang,Pettite,Clemens, Mussina,and Hughes is a nasty rotation going into the playoffs, but it’s only May the season is far from over!
Pete – If the Yanks are swept do you think Torre is out?
If and when Torre goes, do you think Girardi has a shot at the job or is it already Mattingly’s?
What can you change – who will take any high-priced contracts and no team will help them – just suck it up for this year and don’t overreact and start planning now for 08 and beyond. I for one will tolerate rebuilding to win down the road like it was done from 96-2000. That means intellignet free agent signings (no 35+ outflieders and NL pitchers unless they are truly exceptional. I think most Yanee fans wil lshow patience if they see an upward direction. Hughes, Wang and perhaps Clippard will be a good futre nucleus and other kids in AA and A look good.
Pete, who was that free-agent ourtfielder to be in Japan that you referred to –
I for one am tahnkful for a great 12 year run but maybe it is time to retool and if it is done right the drought will be a short one.
I dont know about this whole thing with Torre. If Clemens had not said that he would not have come to New York if Joe was not the manager, Torre might have been fired by now. This team clearly needs a spark. I dont know where else to turn than to fire Torre. If they lose tomorrow and get swept by Boston, I think Joe Torre is out no matter what. The team seemed to turn it around a bit today but Rasner got hurt
“If and when Torre goes, do you think Girardi has a shot at the job or is it already Mattingly’s?”
There is no reason to make a change if Mattingly is the option, imo. He’s just as laid back, bland, and non-confrontational as Joe and is certainly not a taskmaster by any stretch of the imagination. Girardi would be a much better choice.
Something big is coming.
Mattingly isn’t ready assuming he ever is.
Everyone keeps asking who’s going to replace Torre if he gets fired, I find myself wondering more about who they’d get to replace Cashman if he got the axe.
You’ve got to think there’d be tons of guys lining up for that job. With the resources the Yankees have, and the tremendous spotlight…wow! Sure the pressure would be immense, but the potential rewards.
Jeez, just think of all the GMs on this blog alone that would be after that position.
can the yankees hit into more double plays…that is something they dont do well
I like what Matt said,I personally agree with him,also,according to Cashman,Clippard is taking Rasner’s spot tomorrow so I suppose that means that Clippard would get Rasner’s next start?
Matt and Eric, I like your thinking. It is still very early in the year, facts being facts we are 10.5 games out. I am a big Torre fan, but I do think that changes need to be made. I like Girardi for the job, he does have limited experience, but he did a great job for his 1 yr as a big league manager, plus he knows a lot of the guys on this team. I’m looking forward to Clippard’s start tomorrow, he is definitely a big part of the future and it will be exciting to see him in action.
Sally, they haven’t said if Clippard or DeSalvo get the starts going forward. They only need both to start only if Clemens can’t go on May 29th.
It’s a bit like watching a scheduled train wreck. I tune in lately to see what catastrophic thing might happen next.
*Brian Cashman defended his manager and coaching staff.*
Peter, what were you and your fellow scribes asking that put Cash on the defensive???????
And I thought the “fire everybody” sentiment died after the front office’s vote of confidence statment, no ? even the blog O’”cash-in cashman” talk died off
CGramazio
Where do you sign up for that job at? If you show up at the stadium on monday do they just interview first come first serve?
Thanks,Jeff!
Cashman deserves credit for standing in there and meeting the press. But his personnel decisions this past winter were so catastrophic that they’ve exposed the generally lousy work he’d done in the previous two off-seasons as well.
This team is creaky old, without much speed, and with very little fire or enthusiasm. It is going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better.
2007 final record: 82-80…..if they’re lucky.
I have a feeling that Cashman won’t be around to see some of this past winter’s moves pay off. The young players they traded for or held on to may build the next nucleus. Some of the current problems aren’t entirely his fault. Having Giambi make Minky/Phelps more necessary and Bernie saying no leaves them with a very weak bench.
Cashman better have a plan to change the team or the change will come in the form of his job.
“You don’t need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.” Bob Dylan, Subterranean Homesick Blues, 1967. Dylan wasn’t talking baseball back in ’67, but it fits. The received wisdom about curing protracted team slumps in every professional team sport comes down to firing the manager. Why? Because you can’t fire the whole team.
Cashman and Steinbrenner put this team together, with Joe playing the hand he was dealt. This team has too many old, unhealthy players on long term contracts that cost too much, thereby depriving the Yanks of much natural athleticism, youthful energy and spark, not to mention economic flexibility.
To me it’s sad to see Joe looking haggard and tired, struggling along with his team and worrying about his brother too no doubt. But he’s got his health, a lovely wife and a family who would love to see him more often. Joe was at the top for a long time between 1996 and 2007; between 1996 and 2001 who even came close? To have to go out like this would be hard, but he would eventually get regular sleep, spend more time with his family and learn to remember the good and forget the bad. He has his rings, he knows he was the best of the best for a long while and so do we. Whatever happens at the end of the next four games, or however long the deathwatch goes on, Joe will never pay for another drink again, from NYC to his hometowns in Westchester or Hawaii. He only has to wait among the palm trees and black sand beaches for his plaque to be ready for Cooperstown.
You almost want to put your hand on Joe’s shoulder and tell him it’s OK to let go and walk toward the light.
joe torre: an over the hill player’s manager codling a gutless team.
time for a change.
IF a change is coming, people seem to mention Girardi most often, but I actually think Bowa would be a better fit – he has been around the team day in and day out more, so he will have a better idea of which players need the biggest kick in the pants. plus, he definitely has the cajones to do it. Let’s leave Girardi to battle Donnie for who should be next after the Bowa ship runs it course, but I’d like to see Bowa get the shot first, IF Joe is fired.
also, on the topic of if Joe goes, I wonder if Clemens has an in-season opt-out?
and if we fall any further out of the race, does he have a no-trade? Let’s trade him to someone for prospects
I want to manager that is most likely to FLIP OUT and get thrown out of games.
Anger and passion are great motivators.
That would probably be Bowa.
rememebr guys the yanks are a AL team the mets speed in the natl park hurts. the yanks lose 1 big bat and they are really geared to the AL.
I was reading another blog Pettitte has 9 starts the Yankee starter with the next starts are Rasner with 6 including today.
that is there problem..
I am not ready to give up.. I have some minor suggestions; if or when they get clemens and hughes how about trying Desalvo in the pen, he has better stuff then rasner and Karsten probably not starter stuff but 3 inning stuff?I would use him and move Vizciano.
Too bad Cox got hurt I think he would be given a shot along with Sanchez. ALso the guy from Detroit Whelan anyone no anything on him his #’s are real good and I think he throws hard?
I would love to trade Farnsworth, I just do not like him; can they trade him(he does have some value) he only had 1 more year on his contract I think is 31, is decent…get a backup cathcer and another reserve outfielder or some young prospects….
I wonder if Britton can pitch here….I would try Bruney out in the 8th he has great stuf and appears fearless and deserves the chance.
Also how about bringing Phillips up, he is killing AAA, and can play 2b, 3b, and 1B. trade or release Cairo, I liked hime a few years ago when he had pesty at bats and hit 24o I just think he is such a zero offensively it hurts the bench.
I know those moves are not large but tinkering like this may help.. if they had clemens, pettite, moose, wang ,and hughes just making there starts for 8 weeks straight I bet the results would be real good………….
the Hughes injury real hurts that is a scary statement about a 20 yr old pitcher with 2 starts but is true…
If the Yankees lose 2 or 3 of the next 4 games, I realistically see Torre being fired or a flurry of deals being made, or both.
What’s weird will be Clemens reaction if Torre is indeed canned. He did say that Joe was one of the big reasons he came back. But I guess $28 mil will keep him fairly happy,
I wonder what Clemens is thinking right now about the “Joe Torre-watch”. But if you’re a player with the right attitude, do you ever think it’s your manager’s fault? Maybe one loss, a few decisions, but such an enduring slump? Having played for a soccer team that went through 10 (count ‘em, 10!) managers in 3 years, I’ve had very few instances where I thought it was the manager’s fault really (one out of those 10).
Hmm, seems the level here does pick up, the morning after.
Subterreanean Homesick Blues hit 39 the week ending May 15, 1965.
About one week later, SI’s cover was New York Yankees: End of a Dynasty.
Mike S:
Oh Man. 65? 67? For some reason those years all run together for me ; ) Excellent linkage with SI’s cover.
Wouter:
The level is a little better in the a.m. around here, especially on Sundays. The trolls are still drunk, hung over and in jail; the fire Cashman, fire Torre trade everybody haters are in Church; and the rest of us have had coffee, walked the dog or fed the baby and are reading the sportspages.
Unlike some, I don’t think Joe’s coddling players. You don’t get Abreu to swing only at strikes or let the ball travel further before he swings by yelling at him. Ditto Cano’s hitting (his fielding? Maybe yelling does some good there). Does raising your voice fix Damon’s arm and bad wheels, repair Karsten’s bones, Hughes’ hamstring, Rasner’s finger or Pavano’s head and elbow? Can it make Matsui faster getting to balls in LF? Does it make Giambi ten years younger or his contract two years shorter? The days of yelling at players and getting results are over.
While I still say it ain’t Joe’s fault, fault and responsibility are two different things and the buck stops at Joe’s desk. As long as Steinbrenner draws breath, there is always one bullet with Torre’s name on it in George’s gun. Cashman? You can’t fire the GM mid-season. It doesn’t work the same way as canning the manager. GM decisions are long term ones and there is no amount of wheeling and dealing that a new GM could do better than Cashman this year. Any GM decision would come at the end of the season to allow for a smooth transition in planning and all the other tasks the GM handles for the new season.
It’s tough for a fan to watch the team now, but imagine how it is for Big Stein. He fooled us once already by issuing a “vote of confidence,” but I don’t see a second reprieve.
I’m another morning person.
The Yankees have got themselves in a mess and I’m not so sure that Joe, Derek, Brian or even George knows how to proceed from here. I hope nobody thinks that Clemens is the answer, because he isn’t unless he can hit and run like Jeter.
The other night, YES reran the David Wells perfect game of May 17, 1998 and two things stood out.
First, Derek Jeter looks and plays now exactly as he looked and played then (except he’s 33 now).
Second, every player looked happy and excited to be there – of course, those players were Scott Broscius, Tino Martinez, Paul O’Neil etc. In fact they looked like yesterday’s Mets – happy and excited and anxious to get out there and play.
Why did the Yankees let Willie Randolph get away?
Loopy Watch:
Time to give a shout out to our favorite bile spewing Napoleanic putz for another b.s. job.
Today’s gem: “The Yankees couldn’t win a game yesterday when the Mets did everything they could to give it to them in the late innings, when the Mets tried to do everything possible to breathe life into what is such a dead team these days.”
Mikey the Great Yankee Hater strikes again. Only a committed phony like Little Mikey could make this the story line. An honest person would concede that the story was the Yankee comeback after the adversity of the first inning. But to make sure his facts fit his story line, Mikey even accuses Randolph of trying to give the game away by leaving Schoeneweis in too long. Apparently nobody measures up in Little Mikey’s world. He hates everybody.
Most of you out there are too young to remember Dick Young. But those of us who do see Mikey filling his nasty little pointy slippers very well.
Larry Bowa as manager? A guy whose main accomplishment at Philadelphia was to run Scott Rolen out of town? Not on my Yankees. Girardi? If we are going to get a new manager, better get one who doesn’t believe in abusing young pitchers arms. I also worry about how he lost his job by yelling at his employer. How would that work here? Girardi was a decent back up catcher and is good on TV. But would he stand up to the often inane question the media ask day after day? Would any manager have prevented all these injuries?
While the team looks old and slow, lets remember the kids like Cano and Cabrera are stinking up the place. I hate to be reduced to this before Memorial Day, but there is always the wild card.
Welcome to 4th place.
murphydog-
http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/t.....p?c_id=bos
http://cleveland.indians.mlb.c.....p?c_id=cle
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....p?c_id=nyy
just for fun glance at the three front offices .
what you’ll see is that the indians and red sox front offices look a little more complex than the yankees. i know the yankees might have just been lazy and not included all the little people in the organizations, but the red sox and indians have management roles that clearly don’t even exist on the yankees.
my sunday morning longer range view of things is that the front office in Baseball 2.00( the new evolving baseball world-like web2.00) has to be a new kind of front office. it’s no longer just the gm. it’s gotten too complicated for one person to do everything.
the indians are the ones that seem really cutting edge with their management. they’ve added keith woolner from baseball prospectus for the sabermetric side of things. they have gennaro, the cutting edge financial/player value guy peter a. recommended .they have a asst. gm in antonetti who seems to know as much as cashman and who just signed a long term contract.
my quick point is that the yankees have a bad management model rather than a bad gm. you know i don’t love cashman, but i’d have no problem with him if he was part of better management team that delegated responsibilities better for the new baseball world we’re in.
in the meantime until they get a “smart front office” the yankees have plenty of cash to solve problems. signing clemens was the perfect thing to do. they probably will need another big cash transaction to get over the hump this summer (maybe firstbase), but the wildcard with the talent on this team is there for the taking.
i’m still optimistic about this team. i’m not even worried right now because they’ve bottomed out. there’s no difference between 10-12 games. they finally started to hit last night. the tide is turning. i just want cashman to spend when he has to. the yankees should never throw away a summer. with the money they have from the fans, there’s no need to.
“An honest person would concede that the story was the Yankee comeback after the adversity of the first inning.”
LOL, no.
The only story is that the Yanks lost AGAIN. They lost a series AGAIN.
But the moral victory crap is highly amusing, and speaks volumes about the state of the franchise.
i don’t want a manager change right now. i think the worst is over. i agree with some of you that if the yankees made a change they’d get to bowa by default because girardi or mattingly wouldn’t like getting the job like this. they both have too much respect for torre. if the yankees made a change they’d likely get rid of guidry too and kerrigan would come in with bowa as pitching coach. to get rid of this kind of palace intrigue , i’d fire kerrigan just to make sure there’s no possibility of it happening. that’d be the best vote of confidence for torre and guidry. kerrigan is an outsider. he doesn’t fit. hopefully none of this happens and torre and guidry ride out the storm and the yankees start winning until clemens comes to the rescue.
I agree with murphydog about Joe. I wish he would have just retired and not have to go through this. That being said, I really like the idea of Girardi as manager. I think he has one of the best baseball minds around. He would be agressive and we need that. He did yell at ownership but do you remember why they were mad at him? Because he talked to them about the way the Yankees do things! I also think that Joe Torre has really missed Zim as his bench coach. I would love to see Zim, who was willing to take on anybody in that brawl with the Sox, be back as an influence, helmet and all. Just a thought!
realisticfan:
“The only story is that the Yanks lost AGAIN. They lost a series AGAIN.”
LOL. There’s a little more going on than that. But, hey, I will admit that a one dimensional reality like yours is easier to deal with.
Someone please come find me here in Massa-freakin-chusetts and get me out of this godforsaken hell hole of a state. Sox fans here, even after 2004, still have so much anger toward the Yankees. About once a day someone puts up the AL East standings on my computer at work when I’m not there. This might be the longest summer ever if something doesn’t change.
randy1:
I don’t want to see a manager change either, but experience dictates that something’s got to give.
I think Big Stein’s folks are thinking the only thing left to try is an adrenaline shot right into the heart: scare the team straight by shooting Joe in front of them. Not that it would work and turn the season around, or that it would be just punishment for Joe, but you have to see it coming.
Hey Yankeefaninwooosta,
I live in NH, but work in Greenfield, MA. I know exactly where you are coming from.
I Joe goes, it won’t be until the All-star break, and that will be because they still have a record below .500.
My vote would be for Mattingly but I wouldn’t mind Girardi either.
Deep in the bowels of my current Yankee depression, something still tells me that this team will turn around and the Sawx are playing way above their ability. I guess we will all know soon enough.
Back to the bootle.
Yankeefaninwooosta-
i live on cape cod so i’m hearing the same stuff your are, but i’m confident thigs are going to have a good ending from the yankee standpoint. when things are too good to be true , they usually are. the red sox have always lived on emotion. they’re on a roll now so they are on a high, but when adversity comes the emotionalism works against them. they have a culture of passion there. live by the sword die by the sword.
i like to plant seeds of doubt in red sox fans when they come buzzing around. i’ve found ,”the playoffs start at 0-0″, works best so far to slow them down. we may not catch them in the regular season, but they can’t stop us from reaching the playoffs with the same 0-0 record.
Thats bottle.
Yankeefaninwooosta:
Being surrounded at work by angry little chimps is no fun. But you gotta earn those pinstripes, my man. Maybe pinning up pictures of Mike Dukakis in a tank would help, or any picture of Ted Kennedy.
Good morning, all.
I might like Girardi as manager in a year or 2. I still think that with Posada, Jeter, Mo on the team — guys he played WITH, it would be a little, shall we say, interesting. I don’t think it’s fair to judge what kind of manager Mattingly will be yet. He may be very different than many expect him to be. But I do know that if Torre were let go and Mattingly put in at this juncture, it probably would not go well. I really don’t think any manager change at all will do anything but send this team spiraling further downward. I don’t think it would do what most people think a managerial change should do, which is to motivate the team upward. Just opinion; of course you really don’t ever know what could happen. But I see firing Torre as a sort of giving up on the season, and I don’t think anyone wants that message sent.
murphydog –
Somehow I don’t see Willie trying to give anything to anybody at anytime. One of his statements at the Fordham graduation yesterday was that he had to go and make George Steinbrenner’s life more miserable. I like your nickname for Lupica. Loopy. About “sizes” him up.
I also thought it was rather unprofessional for Joe Buck to make a statement to the effect that Clemens would be more useful to the Yankees if he could bat 5th. Granted, some here have said that, and probably some of us in the privacy of our homes have muttered that in frustration, and if Joe Buck wants to say that off the air, that’s absolutely his right. Something about the tone of the comment left a bad taste in my mouth. It sounded unprofessional to me.
Sox were shut out last night. Maybe there’s still hope, after all. Let’s go Clippard! Got tickets to see “Legally Blond” on B’way today — don’t know if I’ll see the game, but I’ll be rooting in absentia for that little spark from yesterday to continue into today. (In yesterday’s game, I liked how Damon took out the second baseman to prevent the DP – would like to see more of that.)
This team just makes you scratch your head. When the pitching is good, they can’t score runs. When the pitching is bad, we lose 10-7 or 14-10. The defense is subpar, and that’s being generous. The bull pen is an underachieving disappointment. We have no bench. Giambi, Damon, and Matsui are really showing their age. Cano, Abreu, Arod, and Melky are not old and are playing even worse. Add to that all the injuries, and this has been a long two months. Guys help me here, there must be something positive I can focus on???
So what needs to be done to fix this mess? More importantly, what can be done? I surely don’t think firing Torre or Cashman is really going to help. These are millionaire professionals. Hiring a manager that will “yell” at them is not going to motivate them. To think that is childish. I’ll tell you one small change I would make, and that’s trading Farnsworth. I hope to never ever see that guy in the 8th inning again.
If I were Mr. Steinbrenner, I would fire Cashman right away and retain Torre till the end of this season.
Reason of firing: The recruiting of the “performance enhancement couch” is definitely questionable. Without that many injuries in early stage of the season, the Yankees wouldn’t have been fallen in the situation with a double-digit deficit.
Reason of retention: I don’t like to the way Torre manage the team. Too many cluessless rules, which would probably enhance good atmosphere and his relationship with the big-name players, and too few flexibilities with contingencies. However, replacing the manager during the season is doing no good for any kind of championship. Let him stay with the players who love him till October.
Conclusion: if something must change, it’s Cashman but not Torre.
Just a question: does anyone think that Farnsworth was trying to get himself “moved” with his comments to the Chicago press? Just a thought.
” don’t want to see a manager change either, but experience dictates that something’s got to give”
yeah i can feel the same thing. that’s why i’m pushing kerrigan so george can get his firing fix.
the yankees offense came out of it’s slumber yesterday and the red sox got hammered 14-0.
14 to nothing is what i mean by calling the red sox an emotional team. they just threw that one away because they didn’t think it mattered. there’s a downside to thinking you’ve already won things. early celebrations are the kiss of death.
let’s see if the yankee’s bats stay alive today. i hope so because i agree that joe won’t likely survive 6 straight to the mets and red sox.
Doreen:
The Fox coverage was sickening. Every move made by the Mets was praised yesterday. Every Met who came up to bat was the cue to blow another kiss to Omar. As you may have guessed, nothing the Yankees ever did was right. Buck made it sound like this is the way the Yankees should be playing. And to top it off, there’s the McCarver Factor. It was great that we almost shoved it up his butt by pulling off a comeback. Almost (sigh).
Enjoy the show. (If you are going with a gang, and you like garlic, try Carmine’s for dinner).
randy1:
I just don’t see any “warm up” or “practice” firings here. If it’s going to happen, it’s going to be the big one.
A few weeks back when George issued his “vote of confidence,” it could have been Joe or Guidry or Kerrigan. But now, it’s strike two and George doesn’t wait until strike three. If the team doesn’t win today, and that’s a stretch with another rook pitching, and take 2 of 3 from the Sox, only the head of the Big Kahuna will do. But I’ve been plenty wrong before.
Doreen:
I don’t know what is up with Giambi and Farnsworth getting loquacious in Chicago. Farnsworth is already the subject of trade rumors here on this blog, so I have to think it’s already out there in the real world but who wants him? The real meaning to me is that the clubhouse is starting to crack.
If the Boss is looking for an opening it could be these two goons blabbing to the press. George could use it as final proof that Torre has lost control of the team on the field and off.
If Tampa wins today and you know we stand no chance of winning the series finale. We’ll be in last place!!!!
and Murph Dog: If you think this team will take 2-3 from the BEST TEAM IN BASEBALL after a 1-5 run. I want whatever you’re taken over here to numb my pain and help me be in the same dilusional state that you’re in!!
doreen,
i guess the coffee is kicking in when you’re advocating the old school taking out of the second baseman so early in the morning. i know i’m in the minority ,but i thought phelps did exactly the right thing when he took away the possibity of johjima of making a swipe tag on him( phelps was all over the plate while he did it, and that’s why the umpires had no problem with it).
i agree that there’s no point in firing torre. all it would do is create a sense of failure. i say keep the managment team intact ( cashman ,torre, guidry, etc), have them stick together and kick some butt this summer. cashman should spend what it takes to get through this ugly duckling transition period for the yankees. when the fall comes ideally they can have a championship to signal the end of an era and the beginning of a new one. that’s the time for a manager change.
Peter: The Red Sox are 4-13 in one and two run games? (The more important number is 29-13 record and running away from us) Boy you beat writers will try anything to put a positive spin on this bad team. Don’t worry Peter even if the Yankees are in last place. Your readers will still come back and read your dribble. You aren’t going to lose them, so you don’t have to sugar coat it for us!
Now the truth:
Yankees: 1-5 last six games. (including today’s loss coming up). 6 more with 2 first place teams. Most likely 1-5 after those six and probably 15 games out. Tell us the truth! we’re grown ups. We can take it! Well maybe most of us can’t, but I can!
murphydog,
i’m with you torre and the yankees need some wins in the next 4 games to save torre’s job. but hey, they’re the yankees. they can do it. just like you said to our friend in “wooster”, you gotta earn your stripes. look at the next few days as a way for some yankees to earn theirs.
randy 1:
Let’s hope Clippard earns his stripes with the game of his life.
Yankeefaninwooosta, As I also live in the heart of the sawx nation, I have to deal with fools all the time. The best response to anyone who wants to throw the standings in your face, is tell them to act like they’ve been there before and then respond with, oh…I forgot, it’s been so long since you’ve finished in first. It usually shuts them right up.
This team looks flat, I hope it is not too late when they start to come around. Ken Davidoff of Newsday has a good article today regarding the current situation the Yanks are in.
Granted the team is flat, and playing like crap, but I don’t see how firing Torre mid-season would accomplish anything.
This abortion of a roster belongs to Cashman, not Torre.
Would firing Torre make Igawa a major league pitcher? Would it make Pavano a major league pitcher? Would it make Mintkjcevehgwicz an adequate 1B? Because those are three players that Cashman was counting on for 2007.
Cashman is the genius who spent $46 million on Igawa, currently a mop up man in Single A ball, re-learning how to throw a baseball. That alone is grounds for termination.
Given a $200 million payroll, and the highest payroll in MLB every year, I don’t see how ANYONE could have done worse over the past 6 years. Big Unit, Contreras, Vazquez, Jaret Wright, Pavano, Igawa.
Steve The Moron Phillips laughs at Cashman’s roster. Let this season go down the toilet, don’t make any more stupid panic moves. The Yankees should be sellers by August, not buyers.
Let Cashman and Arod walk, and get a normal GM for 2008. Any team that ARod leaves always wins 10+ games the following year, so things are looking up.
Yankees are going to lose today. We have Clippard going against Maine. Yanks will lose. Unless Maine has a really off day and the Yankees take advantage. But that is a long shot. The Mets are an excellent team. They have power, speed, and pitching. Yanks just don’t match up. Good pitching puts the Yanks into a slumber. This is the way it is and has been. Which is why it is bad to have power over spunk. Jeter and Posada keep getting hits as they aren’t power hitters. They take what is given to them and knock it around a bit. They aren’t looking to hit a HR, they are looking to just hit it.
Damon is also a hitter, just not showing it due to his sexy calfs. But then we have A-Rod, Abreu, Giambi, Matsui who are all power hitters and looking to hit HR’s. Matsui less that the others, but still. When you have so many power hitters in a row, it isn’t good and won’t win games as good pitching will shut them down. They are power hitters when pitchers make mistakes and can’t hit against good pitching.
Time to get away from power bulked up hitters, and get back to scrappy dirt dogs like they had back in the mid to late 90′s.
Cano needs to stop smiling and laughing so much and get serious. He is taking his game for granted and needs to have a reality check. Sending him down to AAA for a couple weeks will do that and needs to be done. Put in Cairo and Phillips for those 2 weeks, then trade Cairo for some dirt or pair him up with Farnsi for a trade. NL teams would love Farnsi and there are teams out there that would be happy to get him.
Firing Torre will do nothing but piss most of the players off and that won’t result in a sudden offense explosion.
Trade A-Rod. Even when he at his best, that doesn’t mean we will win games or seasons. In April, he played like we expect, but it’s not like we had a winning record. Our record is better by a couple games, but means nothing in the end.
You can get a lot for A-Rod and what you get for A-Rod will be far better than just having A-Rod in the lineup and will take some attention away from the Yankees.
Lineup as it should be:
Damon
Jeter
Posada
A-Rod
Matsui
Cano
Giambi
Abreu
Minky
But get ready to lose tonight as it will happen. We have three good starters and nothing beyond that till Clemens gets here, then we lack a real 5th. A trade involving A-Rod will get us a very decent pitcher and more. Trading Farnsi for Molina out in LA will work.
If any good can come out of that game its the end of Kyle Farnsworth as a Yankee.
Marius, do you remember how awful Andy Phillips was? No need to bring him back up.
‘Trade A-Rod”
are you crazy!!! i’m not even going to read the rest of what you said.
Matt, cause Cano is doing better? Andy Phillips does really well in AAA and fails up in the bigs, but he would only be brought up so Cano can realize his game again and know that he can’t keep smiling and laughing and nothing else. It’s for the benefit of Cano and the Yankees and has nothing to do with Phillips. Two weeks with suck is worth 4 months of a capable Cano.
ever wonder why the Red Sox have no trouble hitting the same pitchers that make the Yankees look like oafs? Is there line up that much better or do they take a different approach. Since 2001, the Yankees have had what is described as a Monster line up. In some games it holds true but in games it matters, they can never score runs. The Yankees over the past four years have been the worst at driving in runners in scoring position. I just don’t get it. Where is the huge disconnect in hitting.
By the way, Torre will be fired on Monday. Bobby Valentine will be brought back from Japan. Fall back will be Girardi and Bowa in that order.
End of the year, Cashman will be fired. Brian Sabean from SF will take over. He was once a Yankee under Stick Michael.
We can rationalize all the things that are not in the control of Torre, and there is merit to that argument.
Still, this team will win nothing with Torre at help. He is stubborn in his ways – keeps bringing Vizcaino at the wrong times again and again and he makes game out of reach. Keeps using Kyle in the eigth inning, over uses Proctor etc,., etc,….. Don’t use this argument that starters are injured. Eventhen why use four or five bullpen guys every day for short stints and burn them out. This is where he also lacks tactical mind. Sometimes, you have to give up games here and there to win others. This is where he really misses Zimmer.
He is not open to be creatice and reassign roles based on on performance. Bruney has proved he is the 8th inning guy. Britton certainly belongs here, but Joe never uses him. The other day when was was brought in for a double header to have some quality arms, Joe never brought him in in the first game and he was sent down in the middle of the doble header though four bullpen guys were used . What a …..
OK, we won some championships with Joe at the helm. I think he got too much credit for that. As big Stein once criticized, what did he win in all his other stops as manager? NOTHING!!! During our glory days, Joe had the support system in Zimmmer and once he is gone it is down hill all the way.
I think it is time to liberate Torre out of his misery (it is really painful watching his images on the TV) and all the fans’ misery too…
Please I beg of you for the final time bringing up the idea of trading AROD is an ill informed idea with no merit. he has a FULL no trade clause he is not going anywhere. He wont accept a trade and those who keep bringing it up are just not thinking with any intelligence.
Cano getting serious just because he has a smile on his face doesnt mean he doesnt take his job seriously. Now if he had smiled after booting those three balls last night then we woul dhave something to complain about.
Torre no one seemed to have a problem with his managing style or demeanor with the clubhouse during past 12 years so now that the team isnt winning it is his fault. I dont think so. Torre was not a firey guy then and he wont be one now. If you are looking for fire in terms of yelling in the clubhouse you are not going to find it with this bunch. The type of leaders they have now are quiet leaders. Jeter is not a yelling kind of guy, I dont see Mo as being a yelling kind of guy either the only one of the old guard that I think perhaps has that is Posada.
Also people talk about the lame bench if you remember in 96 the team didnt pick up Fielder unt9l midway through the season. We still have time to get that guy.
Like I said last night I am not giving up on this team but the time to turn it around is NOW and the time for excuses and saying we are getting there soon is OVER.
You must be kidding that Brian Sabean will be the next GM. He is a failure there.
baseball is a weird sport. in a small sample anything can happen. starting today the yankees could win four straight and the red sox could lose 4 straight. that’d put the yankees 61/2 back. the odds are about 1 in 32 of that happening, but that’s the same chance that winning 5 in a row was last year when the yankees went into fenway.
every day, you have to go in with the attitude something good is going to happen.
a lot of people on this blog have been wanting to see clippard. he may pitch the game of his life and the yankees steal one. maybe all the injuries are the way that divine providence says ” no not that one, this one”.
maybe clippard’s the man plus he’s got a good sounding baseball name. that counts for something unlike” kyle farnsworth”. that’s just not a good baseball name.
Picking up a Fielder type is not going to save this season. The bench is beyond help. This is the worst team that has been put together in Torre’s tenure. Is it his fault, not entirely, but at least half the blame goes to him and his staff. There are things that they are not doing that affect the way the team is playing. running out ground balls, stretching a single into a double, knowing arm strength of outfielders, moving runners, being able to hit mediocre pitching….at the end of the day, there is no chemistry and there is no guidance. Hugging someone is not going to get them to play better. The team was put together with career average players and as such, the team is struggling to get to .500.
There is no quesiton Yankees have been snakebit this season with all these injuries. However the famous law of averages will kick in at some point and the luck should start favoring yankees any time now.
So, my hope is Yanks will win today and then take 2 out of 3 from Boston. This will help set the foundation for the sustained good performance moving forward.
A-Rod has a no trade clause, but that doesn’t mean he can’t agree to a trade if the Yankees ask him to. He said it himself that he would. A-Rod will walk after this season, so it in best interest of the Yankees to get as much as they can. Teams will be lining up to get A-Rod and his cheap salary. The Rangers will still be paying $10million of it if he gets traded. Intelligence is knowing that no trade clauses mean nothing if the player agrees to the trade.
Sabean.. yes, kidding. But, be fearful of the “old” cycle of GM’s that keep popping up in new places. Cashman needs to be replaced or given someone who can evaluate talent. Back when Gene Michaels was around, he had him to lean on. Right now, he has just made very bad decisions.
In the end, this team will not be much better than a few games above .500. They will finish 3rd in their division and miss the playoffs. The only hope they have of getting to the post season is a major set back in Boston…. Not going to happen. Boston is playing like the Yankees did in 1998…..
stop with the trade Arod garbage, so tired of people with a Jeter complex trying to get rid of Arod at every turn. Who the heck are we going to have to be the cleanup hitter, Giambi? (he can’t play first well, if he plays at all). Jeter has value too, lets trade him, and Posada should go too and why not Wang.
Please show me where AROD said he would agree to a trade. Never happened and he wont and please tell me why a team would trade for him when he has an opt out clause for next year. The type of players you would have to get in return for an AROD you dont want to give up for a one year player. Thats it for me on the AROD discussions continuing it is useless
Colorado Yank-
how is the bench beyond help? cashman can buy a new bench any time he chooses to get one. bench players are always available if you’re willing to pay the price. i don’t like what cashman’s thinking was this past winter and i repeatedly said so before the season started, but now in the heat of the battle, changes are going to have to be made on the fly. cashman knows how to do this and i expect he will. this scenario isn’t set up for anyone to quit. the people are in place to turn it around. cashman did have a faulty strategy last winter. he thought he had so much offense that back up catcher and first base could be throw away positions offensively. he thought he had enough starting pitching to transition to the younger pitchers next year. he also thought he could spend 50 million on free agent signings while the red sox spent 220 million(lugo, matsuzaka, and drew). he was wrong on all accounts, but i think he’s smart enough to learn from his mistakes. now to save this season , he can go back to buying what he needs like a good yankee gm. he also has some young pitching capital he could afford to trade if he needs to.
torre didn’t put together the team , cashman did. you can’t fire the gm in the middle of things. someone has to do the deals that need to be done. let’s see where the team is when clemens gets worked into the rotation. i think that team is going to be the one we expected all along.
You guys, I just had the worst nightmare. Fade into a Sunday, packed house game in Yankee Stadium….
Bob Sheppard: Ladies and Gentlemen…please direct your attention…to the Owner’s Box…and the Diamond Vision screen…for an important announcement..
(Fans turn to both locations, and Kevin Brown’s face appears on the Diamond Vision screen)
Kevin Brown: How’s it going Yankee fans? (the crowd groans collectively, some cursing is heard; one fan manages to throw a boot all the way from the seats behind home plate and hits the Diamond Vision screen squarely but harmlessly)
Kevin Brown: Well, they came and got me out of Macon, Georgia…(louder groaning from fans, cursing in many different languages, and gagging is heard)
Kevin Brown: It’s a privilege to be back, and I’ll be talking to you real soon!!! (the crowd is uncontrollably screaming and crying; fits of mass vomiting take over..)
The Diamond Vision screen displays the words “KEVIN BROWN IS A YANKEE!!!”
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!
As it is we have a left-handed heavy line up that is getting soaked by left-handed pitching. Then some of you want to trade the single right-handed power threat we have???
Sorry, but that’s just not a good idea. Besides, everyone knows AROD has the opt out clause at the end of this year. So the only way he has real trade value is IF he: 1-Agrees to a trade, and 2-Agrees to an extension with the new team. I just don’t see that happening. I believe AROD will reject any trade proposals so he can test the waters and maximize his potential for an extension or new contract at the end of the year. That’s the smart thing to do, and AROD and Boras are VERY smart.
Arod said it at the end of last season, after the playoffs in a interview. That if the Yankees wanted to trade him, he would go along with it. Not that he would be happy, but he wouldn’t stay where he wasn’t wanted.
Obviously there would be a null but on the opt out with the new team. Only way another team would except him and there would be a contract extension as is the usual way some trades like this work. Der.
“one fan manages to throw a boot all the way from the seats behind home plate and hits the Diamond Vision screen squarely”
sign him up. he’s pitching next friday.
Marius:
“Only way another team would except him and there would be a contract extension as is the usual way some trades like this work. Der.”
Rule number one when insulting someone’s intelligence on a blog is to proof your post for mistakes so you don’t embarrass yourself, der. It’s “accept”, not “except”. Now let’s refrain from the unnecessary insults and revisit my previous comment:
I believe AROD will reject any trade proposals so he can test the waters and maximize his potential for an extension or new contract at the end of the year. That’s the smart thing to do, and AROD and Boras are VERY smart.
You can bank on that. Secondly, what right handed third baseman with HR power are you planning on replacing him with.
For what it’s worth, Dan Graziano, Newark Star Ledger, has a piece in today’s paper quoting a source who talks to Big Stein on a regular basis. This is one slice:
“The person, who requested anonymity because only publicist Howard Rubenstein is authorized to speak on Steinbrenner’s behalf, said the only way Steinbrenner would fire Torre this season is if he were convinced the Yankees were out of the race. And as of now, he’s not. Steinbrenner has been citing the example of 1978, when the Yankees were 14 games out of first place in July but came back to overtake the Red Sox on Bucky Dent’s famed home run. Those circumstances were more dire than the ones the Yankees face right now, and yet that year proved retrievable.”
Big Stein is also supposed to have said he does not blame Torre for the current situation.
Yankee or Met rotation…
Quote from Jmb9191 – Met Fan
“Some guy on WFAN just called, and said “I’d take Wang/Pettite/Mussina over Glavine/Maine/Perez/”
First off, Perez was our fourth starter coming in. Duque is hurt right now anyway, and he could have been pitching in this series instead of Maine. The Yankees just keep losing possibilities for the 4 and 5 spots, first Pavano goes down, then Igawa took the mound, and they sent him down, Hughes with the hammy, Rasner today with the hand…
Now let me ask a question. How many titles has Mike Mussina won? Becuase, from what I hear, Mike Mussina is a hall of fame pitcher, and still as good as he always was. I guess this is kind of suprising, since hes never won any kind of ring, and last year he blew a 2 run lead to Detroit at home, late.
Is it too early to say that Maine and Perez are for real? People see the 6.00 ERA Ollie posted, and think hes just some scrub, that is hot. THEY ARE ALL WRONG, Perez was GREAT in his first professional season, and Johnny Maine has said himself that hes learned more since he got to New York than all 4 years in Baltimore combined. He knows to keep it down, and to mix in his other pitches besides the fastball.
I am just so sick and tired of people doubting our rotation, calling it too old, or too young, or too inexperienced, or too erratic, or too inconsistant. Maine and Perez pitched games 6 and 7 of the LCS last year, people forget that. People forget Tom Glavine is still winning games, and is now 5 away. People forget that El Duque doesn’t need his fastball to win games. People don’t realize that Jorge Sosa won 13 games two years ago.
People don’t want to realize Pettite isn’t the 26 year old kid he was pre millenium. People don’t want to realize that Mussina’s 2 year deal might not have been such a great one.
I mean, you want to say “wang, pettite, Mussina against Maine, Glavine, Perez” all in their primes, you can pick the Yankees if you’d like to..but right now, come on. Lets stop over rating the Yankees 1-3, and Clemens impact that he will make when he comes.
Another thing, which is totally off topic from pitching, but another reason why this team is losing games, isn’t becasue they are slumping.
They are old. Their outfield is not young. They are all 33 and older. Abreu is doing nothing offensivley, and should have been the second out tonight, just to take more heat, but Wagner saved him there. Jeter and Posada are the only ones really doing big things right now. Rodriguez had the great April, but if you hit 14 homeruns every month of the season, he’d hit 84 homeruns. Giambi is old and feeble, the defensive player at first base isn’t a very good hitter, Eye Chart or Phelps. Melky Cabrera is coming back down to earth from his “Got Melky” tour last year.
Maybe, their offensive “stars” from 2000 are just going stale? Hmm..sure, they can all have a great game, and score 17 runs. They can also score 2.
This Yankee team really reminds me of a pre lockout New York Ranger team. Eric Lindros, Pavel Bure, Petr Nedved, Bobby Holik, Darius Kasparitis, the Captain, Messier (Jeter) being there for it all (well, besides the Vancouver experiment) and bringing back Kovalev (Pettite) to try to rekindle some of that old magic.”
Maybe it’s time to bring up some of the guys in the minors to give the bench a shot of adrenaline. Chris Basak is doing fairly well and was on the bubble during spring training to make the roster.
At least bringing up some young guys might make the bench a little more versatile. It’s a small in-house fix that could have some good effects.
Homerun hitters aren’t what the Yankees need. HR hitters we have. We need guys who can get on base consistently and that is what the Yankees lack and what a team needs to win the season and the playoffs and the World Series and something the Yankees have been lacking.
Power hitters are fine. 2 is sufficient, the rest need to be guys that get on base and push in runs. Cashman needs to start looking at OBP and RISP and stop looking at the HR count. Even if wants to get more advanced he can look at OPS.
Red Sox have 2 power hitters and the rest are guys that get on base consistently. We have the pitching to keep us in games.
Rand I. Buying a bench is not really what can happen. Where are there any players of value that can be bought. We tried that with Minky and Phelps and look where that has gotten us. Although overall they are right in line with the average for first basemen, it is the inconsistentcies that are killing us. Bench players with speed that would be available – none. Bench player that is good situational hitter – none. Bench player that could DH – Bernie is in Puerto Rico..
Incidentally, spending money and buying players is why we are in this mess to begin with.
Some on this thread have suggested that firing Torre is not the answer and Cashman won’t be fired mid season. But I say that if the firing creates a spark then do it. If not, then Cashman and Torre need to have a heart to heart and realize that the group hug therapy is not working. This is really the issue. There is no fire. No way would a Paul O’Neil, Scott Brosius, Tino Martinez, etc continue to let this team squander away like paycheck collectors.
“Incidentally, spending money and buying players is why we are in this mess to begin with.”
I didn’t the get the memo that players were now playing for free.
Pete is all this Cashman bashing just the usual early season way to sell newspapers or do sportswriters really believe Cash screwed up? Either way I’m giving up on the Daily News.
P.S. tell Sam Borden that you are the best recomendation he ever made.