Dumping Giambi may be impossible
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on May 21, 2007 
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There has been bountiful speculation that the Yankees could try and void Jason Giambi’s contract because of his recent admission regarding steroids.
It’s a juicy story (pun intended) for papers trying to prove they’re now on top of the issue and for preachy columnists. But it’s generally baseless for three reasons:
1. If the Yankees decide they will run Giambi out, who is the DH? Melkjy Cabrera? For all his flaws, Giambi has value in their lineup. The Yankees would make more money winning games and getting in the playoffs than they would trying to recoup money from Giambi. And that’s before the legal fees.
2. The pursuit of free agents going forward would be irreparably harmed by going after Giambi. How could the Yankees recruit free agents? We ditched Giambi but we won’t ditch you if something happens? It’s safe to assume that at least 50 percent of players have taken some sort of substance at some point, even just once. Why would any of those players consider the Yankees?
3. The Yankees would have to prove Giambi used steroids during his time with the team. He’s not going to admit that and has never tested positive. How far is that case getting in front of a judge?
Everybody wants the steroids issue to be wrapped in a pretty bow. Right/wrong, good guys/bad guys.
It’s not that simple. Giambi’s mistake (beyond doing the stuff) was going to Balco for his drugs. That exposed him to scrutiny. There are dozens and dozens of other players who wake up every day hoping the spotlight doesn’t fall on them for something they did in the past.
Trying to void the contract of a player who used steroids opens up a door baseball wants to keep closed. Otherwise finding 25 players for 30 teams is going to become an issue.
Amen Brother Abraham. As juicy as I find these stories sometimes, I’d much rather be fulfilled reading fun stories about the team, stuff that happens inside the clubhouse that you provide here and who Jeter is dating this week.
I’m with Bud [did I really say that?], just make it go away and let’s play ball.
Not to mention the field day that the Players’ Association will have when Yankees management attempts to void Giambi’s deal because of the PED issue.
Further to Peter’s point about free agents, voiding Giambi’s deal would be the worst PR nightmare in Yankees history (worse than McGee for Sykes!) I think that Giambi has been an underachiever in pinstripes but I still think he’s a good guy and someone who you want on the team. Not to mention he’s the only player who has been even remotely up front about the use of PEDs in the game. To think that the Yankees would void his contract while Bonds breaks Aaron’s record to cheers from San Franciscans…that would be total crap from the Yankees front office.
Giambi’s mistake was going to Balco for his drugs.
———————————————–
Excuse me?!?!?!? Are you on some kind of drugs yourself, Peter?
Giambi’s mistake wasn’t in going to Balco for his drugs. It was in taking the drugs. Period. End of story.
Peter,
I disagree for a number of reasons.
1)They are locked into paying him the rest of this year and about $20 million for next year plus a $5 million buyout in 2009.
2)They could use the $ to get one real first baseman(i.e. Richie Sexson)instead of 3 (Phelps,Giambi and Doug M.)
3)They could rest the outfielders by leting them DH
4)Most players might have used substances but not illegal ones like steroids.
I agree with you that the Yankees would lose in court.
I agree that there’s no way the contract would ever be voided, and I hope the stories that the team is looking into it are false. All it could do is kill the spirit of a guy who seems to have become a good clubhouse guy, a guy they need to feel close to the pinstripes.
And it kind of sucks that Giambi keeps catching all the grief. It seems so clear that he wants to admit it and talk about it, but just can’t. And he’s the only big name (other than Jose) who would talk.
‘Course, I think he’s still on HGH or something. No proof other than the rightly-frowned-upon eyeball test – who sweats that much DHing?
1) Shelley Duncan or Trade for a Bat like Helton or Sexson
2)Because Giambi used Steriods Peter, cheaters will never win, that’s why Yankees wants to get rid of Giambi’s contract
Posada: Yanks Need To Change Loser Mentality
http://www.northjersey.com/pag.....FlZUVFeXk2
From Bob Klapisch -
…[Paul] O’Neill says that when he watches the Yankees from the broadcast booth, he’s looking at a team that’s gotten used to losing.
Jeter strongly disagrees, but Jorge Posada says O’Neill’s assessment was depressingly accurate.
“Paul was right, when you lose, lose, lose, all of a sudden you don’t know how to win anymore. You look around and start to wonder, “What’s going on here?” Posada said. “When you win a lot, or when you lose a lot, you get used to the same feeling. And we’re losing, so we have to change that. We’ve got to want it more than the other guys.”
Posada stopped short of saying the Yankees aren’t trying. Quite the contrary, he says, “We’re all on the same page here,” And, again, maybe Clippard’s six crisp innings changed everything. But Posada described the “mentality” of losing — that’s the negative habit that O’Neill was talking about — and said, “We have to change that mentality.
“We have to do something to overcome the losing,” Posada said.
If there’s one slugging 1B who’s worse in the field and streakier at the plate than Giambi, it’s Richie Sexson.
The 2007 Yankees need Giambi in the line up as the DH, and healthy. There are so many variables that you could definitely argue it would be worth it to not have Giambi and his $21M salary in 2008. Put Melky in right, DH Matsui and go get an outfielder to can actually hit the ball and catch it with the $37M you’d be saving between Abreu and Giambi (hypothetically).
So, Peter, as for Giambi, I think you’re half right. I doubt that, if they are in fact looking into voiding him, that it’s because of organizational pride. It’s because the last year and the buyout year make his contract an albatross.
I agree with Peter. You can’t say “we can get that money back once we void the contract! Then we can sign another player!” Nobody will want to come to the Yanks when they are actively looking to void contracts and doing it.
Plus, the Yankees removed any language regarding steroid use from Giambi’s contract, right? THEY are at fault. AND they are idiots for signing a position player to a 7 year contract. We all know they wouldn’t be inquiring into the possibility of voiding his contract if he were hitting .340 with a bunch of homers and RBI.
Cashman and the Yanks should honor his contract and let him speak out AGAINST steroids, which he wants to do it seems, without fearing some sort of reprisal from his own team (management). The Yanks are just as culpable by bending over for him in the 2001 off-season.
SP- For the record, I do agree with you and Giambi will be a Yankee through 2008 and most likely will be bought out in 2009. I do, however, believe the roster in 2008 would potentially better and more flexible with Giambi’s $21M (and Abreu’s $16M) spent elsewhere.
Pete –
The line that jumps out of your blog to me is that you say that 50% of guys have used. 50%?!?! Since you are with these guys all the time I can only assume you would know a lot better than the chuckleheads at ESPN or Curt “Red Light” Schilling.
Half? Damn that is depressing. Maybe I was unrealistic but I never thought it was that widespread.
I’m gonna throw when Bob Shepard announces Terry Francona’s name upcoming AllStar game in Yankee Stadium…
I will boo the heck of Francona if He’s managing the all star game.
Of course He will pick Jeter as starting shortstop in all star game in Yankees Stadium
J-
I agree with you 100%. But there’s no getting out of some contracts. I wish the Yanks could spend Giambi’s 20+ million somewhere else at this point. And I wouldn’t mind seeing Ichiro where Abreu is right now.
Hell, I wish those upper management idiots had signed Guerrero instead of Sheffield when they had the chance…
But those guys, Giambi and Abreu, are gonna be Yanks for another season.
Several points Pete.
Agree that it will be tough to void the deal. The Players Association would win that grievance, IMO.
COMPLETELY agree about the preachy columnists, especially the ESPN crowd on this issue. The same folks who kept their heads in the sand during the late 90′s when everybody around the game knew what was going on. To now be the “tough guys” on this issue is a joke.
Completely disagree about the Yankees future pursuits of free agents if they go after Giambi’s deal. Today’s players care about themselves. There aren’t any Curt Flood’s in this generation.
If the Yankees recruit well, pay top dollar, and give the players what they want, they will sign players. We can produce a list of players over the years who have said they would “never play in New York” only to see them in NY. Johnny Damon and Randy Johnson being the last two in that catagory.
Who would DH? Damon, with Cabrera in CF until they sign either Torii Hunter of Ichiro next year.
Let’s face it, Giambi is a great guy but, a mess physically as a player. He is too injury prone, and too limited as a player to live up to this deal. Its a worse team with him in the lineup because he can’t stay healthy and is too limited as a player at this point in his career.
Now, don’t get me wrong, the Yankees are VERY disingenuous here re: his contract. They don’t want to get out of the deal because they are taking some moral position.
They want to get out of the deal because its a horrible contract and its completely hamstringing them from doing other things.
The best solution? After the season, the Yankees and Giambi agree to part ways. He waives his no trade, the Yankees pay half the balance remaining on the deal, and he agrees to a trade to a team that would want him.
At $10 million a year (what the new team would pay on his contract) I am sure both parties could find suitors.
This is one contract the Yankees just have to eat and move on from and not deal with it anymore. Its not working for either party, especially with all the steroid stuff now getting back in the mix.
They got nothing out of keeping Carl Pavano around. They will get nothing from Giambi anymore. At some point, its better to just find ways to move on. IMO, its time for both parties to do so in this situation.
I agree with Peter and disagree with Brian Cashman. Major League Baseball knew what was going on with steroids and turned a blind eye towards it.
Selig and the owners fell in love with oversized players driving up attendance with record setting home run production. The fans loved it, attendance soared and everyone made money. You don’t have to be a cynic to conjecture that smaller players like Brady Anderson didn’t get those biceps in such short time just by drinking milk and lifting weights.
Giambi and the other users were wrong for what they did. The players are mostly to blame.But Giambi’s right in implicating the management of baseball. This happened under Bud Selig’s watch and he should be held accountable.
I don’t think the Yankees will be able to void Giambi’s contract for the reasons Pete lists and others, but I do wonder if they will use the behavior into strong-arming Giambi to accept a trade, behind the scenes.
Oh, and Dan from Mass, Giambi said he slicks back his hair with gel and throws water on it–I don’t think he’s sweating as much as he looks on TV. So maybe no HGH. After his health scare, he may be reluctant to use. Also, it’s not like he’s playing well or anything that would indicate he’s using….
I hope Yankees sign Torri Hunter. He can cover alot of ground, and has strong throwing arm..
Richie Sexson? Yup, just what they need. A guy hitting under .200, who is a strikeout machine. Sure, Seattle or Colorado are going to give up a career minor league player for Sexson or Helton.
This isn’t PlayStation. Those trades don’t happen.
In one week, Tino and O’Neill both called out this team with evaluations that some of us have been saying for 6 weeks. Neither guy is known for giving up such meaty quotes. Listening to them, you know it came from their hearts.
They are both spot on. It is a team with a losers mentality.
Can they change it? Not unless they change personnel and that’s going to be tough to do right now.
Too many guys at too many different places in their careers to be an effective team, IMO.
I hope it changes but, I am more interested in seeing if the young pitchers can develop and if Cano and Cabrera can shake out of their funks and be contributing players to this year and the future.
The rest? Aside from ARod, Clemens, Posada, Jeter, Pettitte, Rivera, Hughes, Proctor, Wang and Bruney, its a hard team to like, folks.
A lot of dog and not a lot of effort most nights. Makes it tough to watch at times.
Nice post Pete. I think we are missing the real issue. If Giambi is putting up ARod numbers nobody would be saying a word, but because he has been in a slump in May the fans are turning on him. The negative posts are laughable, we all know what he did, why is it a shock all of a sudden? Not many disagreed with the signing of Giambi. Perhaps we should take closer look at Cashman, he is the person developing these contracts.
And seriously Richie Sexson? People need to do some research before posting absurd comments.
Instead of going through the free agent market to find a right fielder I would love them to make a trade for Carl Crawford or Alex Rios. I know the D-Rays are short on pitching and heavy on outfielders so they might be willing to listen. Toronto also needs pitching, and they might also bite on this one.
Look out, AL: Yankees could bounce back
By Jonah Keri
[quote]
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....ortCat=mlb
1. Based on their 19-23 record, the Yankees look like one of the worst teams in baseball. They may turn out to be one of the best.
After they dropped two of three to the Mets, the biggest stories coming out of New York are that the Yankees supposedly have no heart; that Joe Torre should be fired; that Jason Giambi’s contract could be voided because he kinda, sorta admitted he juiced; and that the Mets can start printing their World Series tickets. We’ll skip the psychoanalysis, the dissertation on the role of a manager, the thesis on contract rules and the state of the NL pennant race. But there’s no denying one thing: The Yankees have been one of the unluckiest teams in baseball.
With 27 more runs scored than allowed (227 to 200), the Yankees’ combination of offense and run prevention points to a team that would figure to be three or four games above .500 instead of four games under. One of the biggest reasons for the divergence? The Yankees are just 2-8 in one-run games, the second-worst mark in the majors. Teams rarely fare so much worse in one-run games than they do the rest of the time. When you see a team post such a bad record in one-run games, it’s usually the result of two factors: a lousy bullpen and bad luck. There’s no denying that the Yankees’ relief corps has been lousy, with Mariano Rivera uncharacteristically struggling, and a band of would-be set-up men failing to do the job. But bad luck can often turn for the better, especially over a 162-game season.
Adding Roger Clemens and Philip Hughes to the rotation will help a lot. Abreu, Robinson Cano and Melky Cabrera will probably start to play better, even if they don’t get back to 2006 levels. The front office will probably make some moves to upgrade the roster. But even if the Yankees do absolutely nothing, it’s unlikely that they’ll keep scoring that many more runs than they’ve allowed, yet continue to flirt with last place[/quote].
I hope Jonah Keri is right, It’s time for Yankees to start playing better baseball and turn the season around. Hopefully It’s will start tonight against Boston.
I read/heard that MLB is investigating Giambi’s comments and a 50 game ban may be on the way(inline with Jason Grimsley)….Is it possible that Giambi is banned for 50 games but the Yanks won’t be able to void his contract?
This is much ado about nothing. Unless there is a signed receipt for steroids/HGH after the testing was implemented…or a video showing up on youtube with Giambi shooting while reading that day’s Journal News (with the date clearly in view), nothing is going to happen. This is baseball trying to show everyone that they’re taking this seriously.
Also, Sexson is getting really close to becoming a platoon player in Seattle.
Dustin,
But Grimsley was banned 50 games even though he never tested positive. They may need a video to void Giambi’s contract but they don’t need one if they have to suspend him for 50 games.
I think Peter is right, but what if he up and gets himself suspended for some time. Shouldn’t the Yankees have some mode of restitution. Same with other teams.
nyy – where did you hear 50 games?
If he gets suspended, the Yankees don’t have to pay him for the time he is suspended. The steroid suspensions are suspensions without pay.
As another poster noted, Grimsley never tested positive for steroids but still got banned.
They don’t need video to suspend him. If MLB deems that his interview is an admission of steroid use, he is gone for 50 games. No appeal would save him.
From the Yankee perspective, it wouldn’t be a bad thing. They could DH Damon, save about 6 million in salary, and have a chance to finally part ways with him.
Let’s face it, Jason Giambi is one big distraction right now. He isn’t hitting, he is always hurt and the LAST thing this team needs right now is this nonsense.
Hopefully, he gets suspended and at least for two months, they won’t have to deal with this issue. He is no longer a difference maker for this team. They have much bigger issues.
i agree with peter a. about the 50% total. a lot of what’s banned now wasn’t a few years ago . androstendione and dhea were acceptable as testosterone precursors , but not now. steroids themselves were not illeagal in caribbean countries. so dominican players like ortiz, say, could have legally taken them while there and not have broken any u.s. law. it’s ,as peter a. says , a complex issue.
there’s things right now in gnc that i’m sure would set off the steroid whistles in a test. as an athlete,there are supplements that are good for you. sometimes it’s not so easy to tell when you’ve crossed the line.
caffeine for instance improves athletic performance . should it be banned? what about in high concentrations?
what’s done is done. the fact giambi opened up this shows me he has a brain spur in addition to a heel spur. giambi’s a good guy but he needs to shut up. the yankees have other things to worry about.
BillyJoBob
“As juicy as I find these stories sometimes, I’d much rather be fulfilled reading fun stories about the team, stuff that happens inside the clubhouse that you provide here and who Jeter is dating this week.”
We all know who Jeter is dating this week…A-Rod.
richie sexson is legit, the guys is hitting 170.. last year he was not much better..
he is a overpriced jack Cust..
be real..
Giambi was the only guy who was half way honest, he will not be leaving Peter is correct the law would be on Giambi.
no way they can prove he took roids since being on the Yanks….
Giambi has flaws offensively but he is a top 40 poswer guy…
Richie Sexson? Honestly, Helton or Texiera are viable upgrades, but not Richie Sexson
Also, unless I missed it, this seems like a perfect situation for many Yankee fans to answer the “who would DH if they cut Giambi loose” question with the typical “this is why we should have brought Bernie back” arguement?
Also, any thoughts on this…if DeSalvo and/or Clippard are pitching well and giving the Yanks quality starts routinely, does that present a problem when Hughes is healthy? Does that play into the “don’t fix what’s not broken” addage? Perhaps it just gives them a the luxury of taking their time with Hughes…thoughts?
“Not many disagreed with the signing of Giambi. Perhaps we should take closer look at Cashman, he is the person developing these contracts.”
Giambi was a Steinbrenner move through and through.
“We all know who Jeter is dating this week…A-Rod.”
HHAHAHAHHAHA!!! JETER AND A-ROD ARE GAY!!! SOOOO FUNNY!!!!! HAHAAHAHAHAHA!!!! GAY!!!! WHAT AN INCREDIBLY CLEVER AND WITTY JOKE!!!
I disagree about one thing Pete: Giambi is done as an effective hitter. I’d predict about .230/20/75 for him by the end of the year. He’s simply gotten too big to effectively swing the bat (yes, look at the pics…he’s definitely bigger in his upper chest now than he was back in his ‘roid days) and will get worse and worse as the season goes on.
Damon and Giambi r best buds from their days at the Oakland(When Giambi allegedly took the PEDs). Do u guys remember that Giambi was the one who lobbied heavily for the yanks to sign Damon. Is there anything fishy there? Does Damon know something abt the Giambi’s steroid usage or Did Damon also take steroids when he was in Oakland.???
If Giambi is going to be banned for 50 do u think he going down without doing anything. He will drag down other yankee teammates with him. It will all be such a mess when that happends. So, lets all hope Giambi is not going to get banned or else it will be a mess.
With all due respect I think it is crazy to either hope for a Giambi suspension or to compare him to the Grim Reaper Grimsley.
Grimsley had already essentially retired, was in the hands (of cuffs) of the feds and didn’t put up any kind of fight. When you have >$20 million dollars per annum hanging in the balance, the idea that the Players’ Association, agents, etc. will lay down for a 2 month suspension is ridiculous when you have a quote saying he used “stuff”.
Giambi, despite remaining ringless, is a team favorite. Now, if only he could start hitting.
There is no legal ground to void his contract, unless they use his USA Today statement as a confession. Still at that point he did not reference steriods directly. A lot of different products fall under PED such as Creatine. Still again, was that conversation spoken with confidence? All this speculation was started because of LEAKED TESTIMONY. Even if evidence was produced that Giambi used Steriods, it is probably sealed and unavailable. He was granted Immunity for testifing. What a bad PR move to release him. He, in my opinion, is the last person who should be punished for this. He stood up, and in his own little way, admitted and actually has the nerve to want to talk about it. Remember Pete denied for so long, when if he admitted, he would be in the hall. Kudos to Giambi for having the brass set to ALL BUT ADMIT. Sure he struggles, but Sexton? Lets go out and get a big name who is past his prime. Adam Dunn or Pronk would be a better fit. Hafner is a free agent this year and the reds would buy a set of magic beans for dunn
SJ44–
Oddly enough, I would add Mientkiewicz to your list of players. He hustles and he seems to care a lot. Is his offensive production what you would want, optimally? Maybe not, but he is very good defensively and I like his style.
At this point, whatever happens to Giambi is his own fault. I like him as a personality, but don’t these people EVER think before they speak????? Frankie Yankee is right — if Giambi was performing like he did last year at this time, the Yankees would be ignoring all this. However, he is not producing offensively, and they’ve had to configure this team based on the knowledge that Giambi can’t play the field and is a high injury risk if he does (and now, apparently, even if he doesn’t). Unfortunately, as likeable as Giambi is, he is currently a liability to the Yankees. His plantar fasciitis is not going to disappear with the orthotics. It might become somewhat manageable, but you’re still talking about the fact that Giambi’s physical condition affects the entire 1B and DH situations on the team. BUT, I don’t see lititgation here. I do think that, perhaps, at the end of the season they find a way to part ways, but not now, not yet.
What a mess he’s created!
If Giambi ends up needing surgery for his heel condition, that would effectively end his time with the Yankees, and they could get out of this gracefully, sort of.
Unfortunately, the LAST thing the Yankees need right now is this kind of distraction. What the heck was Giambi thinking!!! I applaud his honesty, but his timing STINKS!
Of course, if Giambi starts hitting, they will not part ways. That’s just the way it is, the bottom-line, so to speak.
Bottom line, if MLB suspends him, the suspension will hold up. The precedent is there, and the players association won’t fight it, IMO, because they don’t want to open pandora’s box for the rest of their membership.
Void his contract? Unlikely. Suspension? 50-50, IMO.
Bud Selig wants a “face” to take the attention off the fact he was the steroid commisioner.
What better guy than a guy who is too dumb to keep his mouth shut, and has not only admitted in grand jury testimony that he used, 3 years later, he admits it in an interview.
He is a big enough name, even though he can’t play anymore, to give MLB the “pelt” they desperately desire in this whole matter. Unfair? Perhaps but, welcome to life. Life is often unfair.
From a Yankee perspective, he is a symbol for what’s wrong with this franchise. An underperforming, overpaid physical wreck who can no longer stay healthy or productive for a full season.
If he had the attitude of Barry Bonds with the media, he would have been killed everyday. But, since he is a nice guy, he has “recovered” from the BALCO mess, at least publicly.
Physically, which is all the Yankee care about, he is done.
I just want the guy gone so they can begin the process of fixing what’s broken with this team. He is a BIG problem with what’s wrong with this team.
The DL, suspension, void the contract, DFA, waivers, however they do it, is immaterial to me.
Its just time to flush this team of all the distractions and underachievers.
Unfortunately for Giambi, he opened himself up to trouble. How it gets handled now is anybody’s guess.
I just hope it happens quickly so this doesn’t become the story de jour around the Yankees for the next month. They have enough problems.
I thought this was laughable too Petet…great post. The other angle is this…the Yankees would then have to prove that these injuries- tumors, parasites, bone spurs, etc- are all DIRECTLY related to steroid use (which is impossible)…the Yankees would have to argue that they lost 1.5 years of the guy from injury due to steroids…not possible. The fact is, when he has played he has been very productive. Without checking, I’m guessing his average season (throwing out the 212 and 6 years) is 250-35-110…what bill of goods did they buy?
I still say this is more about scaring Giambi into dropping his “no-trade clause”…not like they could that anyway.
Phelps/Mientkiewicz Platoon: .240/.311/.397 5 HR, 19 RBI
Sexson: .162/.268/.346 5 HR, 20 RBI
Craig Wilson: .172/.304/.259 1 HR, 2 RBI
Shea Hillenbrand: .237/.252/.282 1 HR, 13 RBI
Aubrey Huff: .253/.289/.383 4 HR, 19 RBI
Kevin Millar: .264/.370/.425 4 HR, 15 RBI
Eduardo Perez: .195/.304/.241 1 HR, 11 RBI
these are all the 1B options that were available to the Yankees this offseason. Sexson may have been available in a trade.
Millar has probably hit the best, but he’s a pretty bad fielder.
right now, 1B is the best of a bad situation, and if Teixiera becomes available it might be time to think about which pitching prospects are untouchable and which ones can be moved.
but until then, it’s not like Cashman passed on any treasures this offseason.
Phelps is hitting .275/.339/.431 in his half of the platoon. i think he needs starts ABs against RHP to see what we have. an .800 OPS from 1B in this lineup is very adequate.
Do you guys really beleive that this Giambi thing is a distraction for the team? I mean really? Do you really think its effecting Jeter, Posada, A-Rod, Matsui, Cano, Abreu, Pettitte, Mientkievich and all the other players? If you ask me the only people its a distraction to is Giambi, and the front office. Something tells me that the other players are still sleeping well at night.
Hmnm Transexual drag… Don’t feed Redsox Trolls.
SJ –
It really peeves me off that Bonds is going to blithely go by and break the HR record, and fade into the sunset, while others take the hit. Yes, Giambi et al. (whoever else took the stuff), are not without blame. But it just seems wrong to me that someone who’s trying to be up-front could end up on the scrap heap, while a lousy person like Barry Bonds will have his name in the record books sans asterisk.
Like I said, I like Giambi as a personality, and I do applaud his attempt to be honest about a very, very hairy situation. But he’s going to end up the guinea pig they sacrifice until they get Bonds on the mafia-special — tax evasion!
Doreen,
Agreed re: Minky. He is limited but he does play hard. No question about that.
Is this about Giambi’s performance, or lack of it? OF COURSE it is.
You take George’s money, you take what goes with it. This is all on Giambi. If he kept his mouth shut, this wouldn’t even be a topic. But, that’s not what happened.
When you have a team with a payroll this size, who has played this entire season like its packed it in, except for a few people, and now you have this Giambi stuff, as they say, timing is everything.
Long term, its in the best interests of the Yankees to part ways with Giambi. The how, what, when, where of it? That’s to be determined.
But, it needs to happen and hopefully it will.
Fernando –
Every question, every story that does not have to do with what’s going on on the field is a distraction. Are they losing sleep? Probably not. But, would it not be annoying to have to answer questions with regard to Giambi? Absolutely. So the potential is there for distractions that have nothing to do with winning a particular game.
And, of course, for the fans it is brutal!
“Is there anything fishy there? Does Damon know something abt the Giambi’s steroid usage or Did Damon also take steroids when he was in Oakland.??? ”
if he did, they didn’t work:
SLG%
1999 (KC) – .477
2000 (KC) – .495
2001 (OAK) – .363
2002 (BOS) – .443
2002 (BOS) – .405
doreen-
you’ve been reading up on plantar fasciitus i see. it can be a really nagging injury. it’s also a sign he’s having problems else where with flexibility. i suspect he’ll feel better ,play, aggravate it, sit out and rest, play, aggrevate it etc for the near future.
this means the dh spot will be filled by damon or matsui with melky playing a lot of outfield. that means the yankees need a good fourth outfielder.cairo is not a good option. if giambi’s heel spur lingers, it’s going to cause roster changes.
Regrading Peter’s 50% comment, I have worked in the sports business for many years and I can tell you from meeting a lot of MLB players in informal settings (bars, restaurants) that most of the MLB players used to use greenies (uppers) before a game. I was told by one player that he used to take 2 greenies and a vicodin before every game. Also most of the players told me that Giambi was the greatest guy and teammate they ever had and one of these guys was a 15 year veteran. Trying to get out of the contract would be a big stain on the Yankees.
Come on guys I was just joking around. I read this site because I am sick of listening to people just spout out about how the Yankees suck I like to hear your perspective. Real baseball fans know the Yankees are a great organization having a very bad year and that comment would be funny even if I was a Cubs fan.
Completely agree about Bonds, Doreen.
I wouldn’t want to live like Barry Bonds. He is like OJ. He is a sports pariah. He will be the most hated record holder in the history of sports. Tough way to go through the rest of your life.
Unfortunately for Giambi, he just couldn’t keep quiet. I wish he would only because he seems like a nice guy who did a dumb thing. But, as we have seen, that’s not what happened.
There is no doubt he is going to take the hit for other guys. Like I said in another post, life isn’t fair and I have a feeling Jason is gonna get popped for 50 games when all is said and done.
When/if that happens, I could see this thing with the Yankees getting real ugly. Would be a shame if that happens but, it wouldn’t surprise me if it did.
is Giambi finished phyiscally? Probably. But the remedy for 1st base/DH is thin. 1st basement who was available was crummy anyway. Millar would have been a great pick up, but then we would have like a 1/4 of the 04 Sox, and thats not cool. The only DH out there who may be available now is Dunn or Griffey JR. I still wouldn’t take Junior, he has broken down. But his coming would remind me of Justice and his “magic” when he was traded.
I have a question. I keep hearing that the Yankees eliminated all language regarding performance enhancing drugs from Giambi’s contract. If that is the case, and even if Giambi’s statements can be construed as a “confession,” are the Yankees legally in a position to challenge Giambi, especially if he’s never failed a drug test while playing for the Yankees?
A second question is, if he (Giambi) is suspended for 50 games by MLB, are the Yankees allowed to replace him on the roster?
Griffey, Jr. is available? What happened? Not that I would want him on the Yankees — he’s way too injury-prone and there’s enough of that already, thank you very much.
Hey Peter
If M.L.B. suspended Giambi for 50 games this year, the Yankees would have Matsui be the DH, Cabrera the LF, and re-sign Bernie Williams to DH and play the OF a bit. What else could they do? Forget Travis Hafner.
Let’s say the Yankees voided Giambi’s contract. Hideki Matsui, an old man in LF compared to Melky Cabrera, would be the DH, Melky Cabrera would be the LF, and Andruw Jones would be signed with the $41.75M freed up used like a huge coupon. Here’s another much better option:
Andruw Jones signed for CF, Ichiro signed for LF (I think he’d be willing to play LF with Jones in CF), Cabrera or Jermaine Dye for a one year $7M contract (mutual option for the same in 2009) in RF. Ichiro is a CF with Seattle now, so he could handle Yankee Stadium’s LF no problem, it’d be like night and day between Matsui and him there. Or Ichiro could play RF, Cabrera w/ or w/o a righthanded veteran platoon player-type OF in LF if Cabrera’s having trouble with lefties (same if Cabrera played RF).
As far as the Yankees dealing with free agents being “irreparably harmed”, bullshit. If someone doesn’t use steroids, then he shouldn’t worry about the Yankees coming after him i.e. trying to void his contract. So if a guy gets into a motorcycle accident when his contract strictly forbids him to ride motorcycles and he misses the rest of the year from the accident, or he violates the moral clause in his contract, the Yankees should just turn the other cheek? You’re nuts. If the Yankees offer a guy top years and dollars, he’ll sign on the dotted line just like Giambi did.
The bottom line is money. I’m fairly sure many, many M.L.B. players privately think Giambi is the biggest idiot in the world for stopping short of saying “I used steroids”.
So M.L.B. wants to keep the door closed on steroids huh? Too late and too bad, it’s already been kicked wide open. Lemme tell you something: if there is a way to shut down M.L.B. until they institute a TWO STRIKES AND YOU’RE OUT FOR LIFE policy on steroids, the U.S. government should do it. I could live without M.L.B. for April and May if M.L.B. wanted to be hardass about it. You get caught using steroids, find something else to do. I guarantee you steroid use would immediately end in M.L.B.
The reason why I say “two strikes” and not one is someone could plant steroids in a a guy’s drink or food, but I seriously doubt someone would get away with that twice. And don’t the U.S. Olympics have a two strikes and you’re out for life policy. Follow their lead!
“A second question is, if he (Giambi) is suspended for 50 games by MLB, are the Yankees allowed to replace him on the roster?”
you beat me to that one. 24 would suck big time.
at this point in the season for the reds, almost everyone is available. All it would take is bullpen help. They have had actually a worse melt down than the Yanks. Griffey has had a love/hate in cincy. hIs legs have worn down, but he can hit. Take him as a DH, send Farnsworth and Meyers and he is ours. I think for THIS SEASON, he can be a help. Much further from now, it depends on his legs. But he has ties to the Yanks because of his dad. Its a suprise he is still even in Cincinnati.
Yes, they can replace him on the roster.
Randy 1 –
You were so passionate about Giambi’s injury and I knew nothing about it, so I did do some research. When you say “heel spur” it sound like nothing. When you look into it further and put it together with the orthotics being needed, you realize it’s not an injury that just a little bit of rest is going to help.
Unfortunately, but realistically, if Giambi gets a 50-game suspension from MLB, the day-to-day situation for the Yankees gets somewhat stabilized for a period of time, AND Giambi get to rest his foot (feet).
Boy, this season is taking some wicked turns, isn’t it?
hmmm,
the problem with the first base platoon in relation to the players you mentioned was they only take up one roster spot. phelps and mienkiewicz take up two spots. i’d be more comfortable if one of them could play another position, but that’s not going to happen. it’s also possible if phelps played more, as you suggested, and got his numbers up, he’d be trade bait for a two position first baseman( assuming a rule 5 can be traded).
Well, it sounds like Griffey can really only DH, and the Yankees need to rotate that around a bit. Are his legs sturdy enough to play the field occasionally, and does he really help the Yankees?
If they lose Giambi to suspension, maybe, I guess.
But if they give up Farnsworth AND Myers, who comes into the pen? Henn comes back up? Who else?
i’d start claiming off the Waivers, always a diamond in the rough there…Giambi is going to be impossible to move. He can only play in the American League, and nobody wants his baggage. Even if he hits 250 w/ 25 HRs its production
It doesn’t sound like Phelps can be traded:
“A player drafted onto a Major League roster in the Rule 5 draft must remain in the majors (on the 25-man active roster or the DL) for all of the subsequent season, or the drafting club must attempt to return him to his original club. However, since a returned Rule 5 player must first be placed on outright waivers, a third club could claim the player off waivers. But of course, that club would then also have to keep him in the majors all season, or offer him back to his original club.
“Occasionally, the drafting club will work out a trade with the player’s original team, allowing the drafting club to retain the player but send him to the minors.”
Leave Delsalvo or Clippard, bring back Kei. Vilone is the lefty specialist, Vizcano is unmovable…Farnsworth is worth less, he just throws hard and straight…nothing a AAA pitcher can’t produce, not to mention similar results. Griffey has entered his RENT A PLAYER stage in his Career. He could help short term but not long. I like Hafner in Cleveland, and he is available next season. Cleveland will have a hard time signing C.C. and Pronk, and as we all know, DH’s are a dime a dozen
if giambi does get suspended, i think shelley duncan earned a shot at filling in at DH before they make any drastic trades.
Question: Does Yankees management take into account that Giambi is a respected or well-liked teammate? That actively trying to take him off the team might actually hurt this team, morale-wise? We all know baseball is a business. It does seem to me, though, that both management and players try to straddle the divide between the money factor and the “loyalty/respect” factor. This has the potential to become a very, very divisive issue for the Yankees – and it very well could have repercussions regarding the future signing of free agents (meaning it will cost the Yankees even MORE money to sign players who initially say they could NEVER play for a team that would sell-out one of their players.)
Too bad once the genie is let out of the bottle, there’s no putting him back in.
“the problem with the first base platoon in relation to the players you mentioned was they only take up one roster spot. phelps and mienkiewicz take up two spots.”
oh yeah, i agree that it’s far from ideal.
i’m just saying that some of the people on that list got substantial $$ and have been absolutely awful.
our 1B is sub-optimal, but you could cut either of those 2 guys without blinking.
Huff got $20M/4 years. Hillenbrand got $6.5M. Sexson makes $14M a year through 2008 and would have cost players in a trade.
these were all guys that i read that the yanks should have pursued this offseason, but all have been unmitigated disasters.
doreen-
the reason i was so passionate about the topic of heel spurs is i’ve had them twice and they hurt like a #$@%%^$#. i had to do a lot of flexibility rehab to get better. it takes months usually and not weeks though i’ve heard of quick turn arounds so it’s possible.
as far as the wicked turns, i thought i’d seen everything until minkiewicz was hit by that ball last night and the ump randazzo said he didn’t try to get out of the way. luckily it didn’t affect the outcome.
we need three wins. if tyler clippard can lay down a sac bunt , hit a double, and win the game, anything’s possible. i’m believing.
1. Put him on waivers like Boston put Manny Ramirez on waivers after 2003. Maybe Oakland would claim Giambi. If they did, trade a low-level prospect and $5M cash to Oakland (Giambi’s buyout for 2009) for a utility infielder, that way they don’t have to pay for Giambi’s buyout for 2009. How could Bud Selig object? I’d consider it like the Yanks buying out Giambi for only $5M.
2. If Giambi isn’t claimed off waivers, try to trade him to Oakland for a guy blocked by Chavez, Crosby, or Swisher, three guys who are not leaving Oakland any time soon.
3. If Giambi refuses to be traded to Oakland or anywhere,
release him and eat the $26M (his $21M salary + $5M buyout) as follows:
$9M to Jaret Wright, Javier Vasquez, and Randy Johnson, three guys not even playing for the 2007 Yankees, off the books.
$16M trading Igawa ($4M for 2008).
Total cost of releasing Giambi: $26M – $25M cleared = $1M. $13M (half) that $26M paid in 2008.
Igawa would be a $14M loss ($26M posting fee the Yanks paid to his Japanese team + $4M paid to Igawa for 2007) – $16M the Yanks would’ve paid).
Total loss getting rid of these two: $15M.
Giambi would be lost cuz here are teams he couldn’t sign with with reasons in parentheses, and no, he can’t play 1B for any of them, so stop with that right here:
Boston (David Ortiz DH)
Toronto (Frank Thomas DH)
Tampa Bay (needs more pitching, p.r. nightmare)
Cleveland (Travis Hafner DH)
Detroit (Gary Sheffield DH)
Baltimore, Kansas City, Minnesota, Texas (see Tampa Bay,and Giambi isn’t winning shit with any of these teams)
Angels (don’t need him)
Chi-Sox (I can’t see their g.m. Kenny Williams or Ozzie Guillen + Williams is a fiscally shrewd, frugal guy -see his brilliant pre-2005 moves.)
The only places I see him landing in are Oakland or Seattle.
Honestly, I don’t think he’d ever win much less go to the 2008 World Series with either team, so that’s punishment enough. The Yankees winning it all without him in 2008 would really stick it to him. If he didsn’t come back to Oakland or sign with Seattle, he’d go to Japan.
“I like Hafner in Cleveland, and he is available next season. Cleveland will have a hard time signing C.C. and Pronk, and as we all know, DH’s are a dime a dozen”
the indians own a very reasonable option on Hafner ($4.5M) for next year. there is a 100% chance that they exercise it. he won’t be available until 2009.
This team has to avoid the old and the injury prone. We have to learn this lesson.
I say no to Griffey because he’s too old (37, 38 in November) and too brittle.
I say no to Helton because of his age, his bloated contract, and because his numbers are inflated by playing in Denver.
I’m even hesitant on Ichiro because of his age (he’d be 34 when next season starts). How many years would we have to give him?
I’d prefer Torii Hunter over Ichiro. He’d be 32 in the spring.
Bottom line is I’m sick of us getting burned by aging veterans with contracts that are too lengthy.
Teixeira is a no-brainer. I’d still prefer we didn’t trade away young arms though. At least until we’ve rebuilt this rotation and are confident as to which prospects will genuinely translate into solid MLB starters for us. I’d rather patch first base together and go after Teixeira when he becomes a free agent rather than trade away the arms.
Two things from last night I haven’t gotten over… Minky not getting 1B on that HBP… and FR saying we should convert Wang to a 7th inning middle reliever. Was it a full moon?
“i thought i’d seen everything until minkiewicz was hit by that ball last night and the ump randazzo said he didn’t try to get out of the way. luckily it didn’t affect the outcome.”
good lord, i almost forgot about that until now. i should probably apologize to the neighbors after the screeming i did at my tv after that call.
meanwhile manny’s XXXXXXL jersey gets hit and he’s always awarded 1st…
Deep to Left –
I would agree regarding Teixiera – patch 1B one more season, and then get him as a free agent, if possible.
The Yankees should release Giambi after 2007 and absorb his $26M due as follows (real simple folks):
Trade Igawa’s remaining $16M (there’d be a taker for a 27-year old lefty starter costing only $4M/yr. for 4 years)
$9M paid to Jaret Wright ($4M), Javier Vazquez ($3M), and Randy Johnson ($2M), three guys who aren’t even pitching for the 2007 Yankees off the books after 2007.
Let go of Phelps ($0.6M) and Nieves ($0.4M) after 2007.
Total loss getting Igawa:
$14M minus whatever is recouped from insurance on Pavano’s contract ($26M posting fee to Igawa’s Japanese team + $4M paid to Igawa for 2007 = $30M – $16M the Yanks would’ve paid
Randy Johnson for 2007 = $14M – whatever is recouped on Pavano’s contract).
If the Yanks recoup $14M or more on Pavano’s contract, Igawa cost nothing. The Yanks just take a hit on Pavano as they should.
I am not saying the Yankees should void Giambi’s deal because he did steroids. Honestly? I don’t care that he did. Giambi is a great guy and when he is healthy he can mash. The problem is that he always has some sort’ve nagging injury. If the Yankees can get out of his deal, they should. DH Damon, play Melky in CF, and make a run at Ichiro, Fukudome, or Jones.
hmmm,
it’s strange how baseball is in a period where there’s so few first good basemen . i agree it’s not an easy problem to solve for cashman, given the choices. almost any third baseman can play first , so like the red sox switching youkillis to first, maybe the yankees should expand the search to third basemen. once a third baseman makes the switch, he usually is going to have an above average arm for a first baseman, and then the yankees would have a first baseman who could play two positions for a more flexible roster.
“meanwhile manny’s XXXXXXL jersey gets hit and he’s always awarded 1st…”
Exactly… and Minky almost lost a knee cap. That one and the call at 2nd base a few weeks back… man, can more things go wrong for this team this year???
The dump Giambi ship sailed 2 years ago.
Now you deal with it and get over it and hope he keeps hitting. We need him in the lineup and hitting.
The Wang as a 7th inning guy had to be a full out joke.
You hear Minnesota is going to make Johan the long man??
Two writers (ML and BK) won’t like this idea of not trying to get Giambi off the team but the time to have done so was not to sign him in 01.
The Yankees desperately need an established right hand hitter in their lineup to balance those lefty hitters.
First base would be the most viable position to fill, but there’s little talent available.
Maybe the Yanks should DL Giamvino for 15 days and give Shelly Duncan his shot at MLB pitching. He certainly doesn’t have a major league glove but perhaps could probide some pop from the right side.
Dunn, Griffey, even Pronk, are all lefties and not ideal options with this lineup. Sexson is a worse option than playing Giambi at first.
I agree that Cashman should be assessing his “untouchable” prospects and perhaps consider trading away some youngsters that currently have appeal (Chase Wright, Karstens, DeSalvo)
*follow ‘da bone spurs*
bone spurs on the foot degraded the careers of Jolting Joe, McGwire, and Larry Bird.
At age 37, Giambi is scheduled to make $21 million in 2008. Given the horrid month he’s had, notwithstanding tonite’s homer, I’m sure Cash would love to move that cheese off the table and trap the centerfielder from ATL.