Jeter closes in on DiMaggio
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- May
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Derek Jeter, who has hit safely in 17 straight games, needs one more hit to match Joe DiMaggio for fifth place in team history. DiMaggio had 2,214 hits.
Julian Tavarez turned 34 and won his 34th major league game on the same day. I’m not sure who is assigned to figure this stuff out at the Elias Sports Bureau, but the last Red Sox pitcher to win a game at Yankee Stadium on his birthday was Mike Boddicker on Aug. 23, 1989.
Here is some Johnny Damon audio:
Meanwhile, winning the final game of this series is a must for the Yankees. I’ve been preaching that it’s too early to panic and I believe that. But if the Yankees can’t win a series with Wang, Mussina and Pettitte on the mound, perhaps they just aren’t all that good.
There comes a point where you have to accept that a team that appeared good and should be good just isn’t good. That point could come tomorrow if they lose. Julian Tavarez was all but begging for somebody to get a big hit tonight and nobody was interested.
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on Wednesday, May 23rd, 2007 at 12:16 am by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
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Interesting comment there Pete.
“…nobody was interested.”
It certainly seems like that sometimes. I would love to see a little emotion out there. The guys seem bored and generally uninterested.
Why do the Yankees always get blanked by pitchers who “can’t pitch” and then tomorrow, they’ll bomb Schiling. Watch. Makes you scratch your head.
True. Meanwhile Mussina sure didn’t have to beg. :/
I think Mussina is a problem. His only two wins were against the last place Rangers. I just don’t think he has much left. His fastballs were primarily 85 -87 mph and not great location. This two year deal is looking like yet another bloated, unmovable contract. He is supposed to be a number 3 starter… not quite, plus he has been tailing off in performance in the second half in his last two seasons. I hope I’m wrong.
maybe its time to realise the yankees may not be playoff material this year. performing brilliantly once in a while wont be enough and that certainly is not a hallmark of a playoff team, let alone a championship winning one
they did not strand 20 runners..
Torre did nothing wrong tonight, the players lost tonight..
Even Peter is getting ahead of himself …
cashman signed Moose not lilly because of 2 addtl years. plan and simple lilly got 4 years or more, moose got 2….
Stuart’s right – the idea was to sign Moose as a bridge to a group of younger home-grown pitchers.
Other than Zito, there wasn’t a guy who was a good bet for 4 years… and Zito got 7 years and an insane amount of cash.
I thought Moose pitched much better after the first, and that Joe left him in too long in the 7th to try to save the pen.
I think there’s some hope that Moose will improve his next few starts.
moose is over.
At what point is it no longer too early? Its almost June. Too early ended two weeks ago. We’ve entered “pray for a collapse” territory.
gil meche was the guy we should have gone for…not lilly or zito…and certainly not igawa. whomever did the scouting on his stuff should be fired.
Meche hasnt had a solid season in his career. It wasnt going to be Moose or Lilly. it was Igawa or Lilly. Cashman, the genius that he has always been decided to sign Igawa and not pay the luxury tax or give up a draft pick or sandwich pick or whatever it was. I would have taken lilly any day over Igawa. Any one would have made that two yr deal with Moose – he was an ace the first half of last yr and I hate cashman as much as the next guy. Right now, I have no idea what is wrong with him but he needs to find a groove and fast. The players show absolutely no emotions during this disgusting stretch and it is almost sickening to watch torre sit on the bench doing nothing day after day.
It seems like what the Yankees need may have to come from the Red Sox – namely a major injury to a starter (Beckett not withstanding) or power player. A slowdown in momentum from the top team could mean a steady rise in the rankings for the Yanks. But in order for that to work, the Bombers have to start winning series.
Or, perhaps the Yankees could use an umpire or two in their favor. Crisp was out, Jeter should have had a 2-1 count on him.
Dave…is it too much to ask Joe Torre to at least stand up? he just sits there chewing his cud and sipping his tea. What’s he gonna do? I dunno, stand up and walk around a bit– go break up the solitaire game Phelps has going on the end of the bench.
that’s right after 7 weeks the Yankees problem is obvious they should have paid about $16 mill a year for like 7 years for a pitcher with a career 4 ERA like Meche. They also should have signed Jason Marquis for 4 yrs and like $44 mill after all he was not put on the playoff roster in lieu of Jeff Weaver. I take it back they should have signed Jeff Weaver..They also should have signed Mark Grudzialanek he went 1 for 3 tonight with a walk..
I am joking to show you how stupid these suggestions are……..
PLEASE SHUT uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuPPPPPPPPPPP.
THEY ARE not playing well yet, stop the MORONIC IDEAS.
Torre saved his pen tonight, only used Vizciano(who should be replaced by Britton)…and Villone…
Alos they are not that old, since when is a finely tuned professional athlete old at 33?????
Posas is 35 and plays cathcer is he old??? Jeter is 32 is he old?? The trite simpleton ideas are a waste
Tim Lincecum is dominating for the SF Giants. He won again tongith. Hughes can dominate just like him………..
Yes Lincecum is a few yers older but so what……….
I knew the Hughes injury would hurt the team, he can strike guys out, that makes a huge difference……….
A team is old when 90% are over 32.
The team has gotten younger in the past couple years with Wang, Cano, and Melky joining, but before that you had old guys all around with Randy, Kevin Brown and not much youth out there. You need young guys on the team. You don’t need shy silent ones like Wang. You need young guys who will light a fire on the older ones.
You need young kids who are fighting to get million dollar contracts.
What do the players on the Yankees have to fight for. Most are multi millionaires and will get paid, win or lose.
Most have rings and most have been in multiple All Star games.
Drop some of the old weight, like Giambi, and bring up more from AAA.
Marius…are you serious? what do they fight for?
I hate to shatter some notion you have, but most of these guys are millionaires before they play game 1- IN THE MINOR LEAGUES! Most, if not all are “bonus babies”.
They fight becasue they are professional baseball players that want to win…not because they gotta go work the farm in the off-season.
Mussina is garbage and Igawa was a waste of money and that was known from day one.
At this point, I will be rooting for the kids and waiting to see who is fired for this horror show/debacle.
The Yanks should put Mussina on revocable waivers after this season and if anyone save an A.L. East rival or the Mets takes him esp. an N.L. team, let that team take him. I don’t think an A.L. East rival or the Mets would claim him because they know the Yanks would just pull him back. If a team takes him, that’s $11.5M cleared from the 2008 payroll.
Let’s say Pettitte picks up his free money i.e. his $16M player’s option for 2008, the Yanks sign veteran perennial 30+ GS, 200+ IP lefty Mark Buerhle (a free agent after this year) using the money cleared getting rid of Mussina like a huge coupon towards the contract, Clemens is re-signed for June on again, and someone takes Mussina, the 2008 Yankees rotation would be this:
1. Wang
2. Buerhle
3. Hughes
4. Pettitte
5. Whoever wins the fifth starter job in spring training
among Rasner, Karstens, Clippard, DeSalvo, etc.
The fifth starter makes only 3 starts in April with all the days off and 5 in May for just 8 starts total before Clemens arrives for June on.
Mussina hasn’t been an ace or #2 starter for years, but now he’s not even a #3 starter. He’s a #4 starter at best now and will be that or worse, a #5, next year, so why have him be a #4 or #5 starter for what he’s making next year? Get rid of him!!!
If you want to be really depressed how about this..
the only contracts that are coming off the books this yr.(I Think) are; Arod(option his choice), Abreu(Yanks option, no under any circumstances), Posada(they need to sign him),Clemens(no more), Pettitte(his option), of course the scrubs Minky, Nieves, Phelps, Cairo, Villone, Myers, and Vizciano, ..
they still have under contract some of our favorites; Pavano 1 more yr.,Farnsworth(I am not sure how many more yrs.) Giambi 1 more yr., Igawa 3 more yrs., moose 1 more yr., damon 2 more years, matsui 2 more yrs., ..
that is depressing.. out of there starting 9 the only new face might be RF and 1B……. that is it..or if Arod leaves….
just imagine how bad the situation would be if Cashman did not get rid of sheffield,Jaret Wright, and johnson, wow
they have been signing these crazy contracts for yrs and it aint worked out to well but if you read these posts the braniacs want to sign Ichiro(32 +), ANdruw Jones(30 +), and more oldies and goodies…Maybe Jesse Orosco is available.
the only players who have not reached there peak as a player on the major league roster are; bruney(25), hughes, Clippard, henn(up and down), desalvo, melky, cano, and I think that is about it…WOW.. all growth will have to come from the minors, trades, or FA…
The good news is there minors pitching wise is really in very good shape. Position players is a totally different story.. I may have a nightmare tonight.. Cahsman needs to make a trade a marginal trade.. Trade Farnsy or someone to shake things up….They can replace farnsy with minor leaguers and proctor, bruney and others will do just as good job as him if not better…
One more thing, I could juuust hear it “If Mussina would be a #5 starter next year, why not just keep him for 2008 then let him go after ‘08?” BECAUSE I WANT HIS 2008 SALARY OFF THE BOOKS SO MARK BUERHLE’S 2008 SALARY IS WHATEVER IT IS MINUS THE MONEY CLEARED GETTING RID OF MUSSINA. I also want a kid from the farm system making 400-something thousand dollars in ‘08 to be the #5 starter, not a 40-year old excuse-making has-been stealing $11.5M, o.k?
Now that I think of it, let Boston claim him for a Beckett/
Matsuzaka/ Wakefield/ Mussina/ Tavarez rotation cuz I don’t see Schilling coming back. If Schilling does return next year, Mussina is a Red Sock, and Tavarez is the odd man out of the rotation and a free agent after this year, the Yanks should sign Tavarez to be their fifth starter. I’d rather have him in our rotation than Mussina. At least Tavarez would drive Ortiz and Ramirez off the plate and has guts and nuts unlike the gutless, nutless Mussina who I don’t think has hit a batter to protect a Yankee in his entire Yankees career.
Wang/ Buerhle/ Hughes/ Pettitte/ Tavarez in 2008 is a.o.k. by me. Bring on Beckett/ Schilling or whoever/ Matsuzaka/
Wakefield/ Mussina!!!
Hey Peter Abraham how ’bout Mussina to the Phillies for Jon Lieber? Mussina would be closer to his home in Montoursville, PA, in the N.L. without the DH and with the weaker 7-8-9 batting order, and on a decent team.
Wang/ Clemens/ Pettitte/ Lieber/ Hughes for the rest of this year? Why not? Farnsworth could be traded for bullpen help.
yeah sign Tavarez would be perfect a 34 yr old 5.30 ERA.. good move maybe we can sign his brother also!!!!!!!!!!
how about Joel Piniero??????
go to sleep……..
Admit it Peter: Mussina is washed up and whiner.
I like how everyone is overreacting to Mussina’s start. Yeah, he had an off night, but we’re still talking about a fairly healthy pitcher who threw about 200 innings last year with a 3.50 ERA in the AL East. I mean, how the crap can he be “washed up” one year removed from a season like that? Even if he was, how would you be able to tell after only five starts?
Mike’s a pitcher who absoltely needs pinpoint control of all his pitches in order to be effective, so when he doesn’t, he’s going to give up some extra base hits. Big deal. It’s still the offense’s fault tonight for not performing against Tavarez.
People aren’t saying he’s washed up because he gave up 7 runs in 6.2 innings. They are saying he’s washed up because he was throwing his fastball at roughly 85-87 mph.
If that’s all he’s got left, then 7 runs over 6.2 innings will be the “good” Mussina starts.
But his velocity might improve as the year goes along. It did last year if I recall rightly.
Pete:
What’s your take on Giambi having failed a recent amphetamines test?
Maybe the issue is that this team is good when someone not at the tail end of their career is pitching.
I’m concerned as to young position players as well. Tabata has to be at least a year or two away, and he’s just one guy. If we really fall out of it, and Anaheim really wants Giambi, they seem to have a few guys at the right positions.
Abreu can be traded, Farnsworth can be traded. We could even pull a Maddux-like trade with Mussina….I think.
Call this a crazy idea here, but being the Marlins are about to strike out again with their stadium deal and won’t be able to pay this guy, does this idea seem plausible to anyone?
Abreu’s expiring contract, Melky, Disalvo, and your choice of Chase Wright or Sean Henn for…..Miguel Cabrera….
feel free to call it crazy as well.
just when you need him the most, “MR almost� mike mussina deserts us! if they send T Clip down in favor of more mussina slop then cash truly should have his head examined. I will say it again: mike mussina must have incriminating pictures of someone in the yankee organization
Stop these carzy suggestions.
Replace Mussina with Tavarez?
Mussina had on off night. He elecric against Rangers.
Here’s Comment I got from Sosh and Redsox Fans that Arod needs to get drilled today’s game
It will be interesting to see if the Sox send a message to ARod tomorrow. That play at second base was uncalled for. He needs to pay.
Let’s hope Schilling can give us some solid innings tomorrow for another Sox win. A-Rod, you are more of a p*ssy than I ever thought possible. I hate you and hope you get nailed tomorrow or sometime before this year is over and get your ass kicked by Varitek again.
I would like to see WMP homer and sucker punch Arod as he went by. Then say “That’s how you hit little guy.”
Personally I think it was payback.
Pedroia slid hard into Jeter earlier in the game and couldn’t possibly have touched second base.
I love it..Tavarez has beaten the Yankees twice already this year!
Mussina is a gutless puke. The guy never, ever gets a big out, and constantly blames poor efforts on too much rest, or not enough rest, or pitching in Japan, or pitching after a trip to Japan.
What a damn crybaby. He’s had two gigantic efforts in his Yankee career: the 2001 ALDS game against Oakland, and the 2003 ALCS relief effort (after he screwed the pooch earlier int the series) against Boston.
Warning: I am going to take a “glass-half-full” approach to Mussina here.
Last year, Moose started off really well — looked like he was well on his way to 20 wins for the first time in his career. That didn’t happen, in part because he got an awful lot of no-decisions (lack of run support and bad fielding behind him). But the other reason was as the season wore on, he was tiring.
Perhaps a slower start this season could mean he’ll be at his best towards the end of the season. Now, that may or may not mean a darn thing if the Yankees don’t turn everything around, but it could be important. I also think that because of the hamstring injury, he’s pretty much still in spring training mode. I’m hoping his arm strength will improve by his next start or, at worst, the one following that.
I know many of you don’t like Mussina, but I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt here, because of the hamstring injury, and also because *in general* he’s done a good job for the Yankees over the years.
the yanks are done . one game at a time only works if you win one game at a time . moose is has been ineffective this year , so far . ” tavarez isnt the type of guy that can shut a team down ” – paul o’neil
the yankees have a lefty problem. yankee hitters have a team .746 ops against other teams lefty pitchers.
other teams lefties hitters have an .829 ops against the yankees.
i pointed out before the game yesterday that taverez was dominant against lefties and terrible against righties. .573ops against lefties, .907ops against righties
another tidbit: mientkiewicz is anemic against lefties to the tune of .247 ops
if you put all of the above together, how does mientkiewicz start last night? this is not hindsight on my part. i stated the problem ahead of time. how does a blogger know something that the yankees don’t know. do i have more time on my hands than them. HOW DOES MIENTKIEWICZ START AGAINST TAVAREZ LAST NIGHT?
if the yankees don’t want to play every edge,every night all the time, there’s something missing on that team.
the yankees seem to have little desire to play the percentages and the edges.
what’s up with that? someone is lying down on the job for the yankees. i like torre ,but he makes out the lineup. what’s he thinking having mienkiewicz in against tavarez who eats up lefties. i reallize tavarez isn’t a lefty, but surely it doesn’t confuse the yankees that he pitches like one.
maybe it does. maybe ,that’s the problem.
the simplelogic goes like this:
tavarez gets out lefties
mientkiewicz is a lefty
therefore taverez gets out mientkiewicz
i started out saying the yankees have a lefty problem, i’m amending that to the yankees have a thinking problem.
Moose is a problem, no doubt about it. But as far as the Yankees go, I can’t believe all the giving up I am hearing on this board from the fans. Thank goodness the players don’t play that way. We lost last night, get over it, it is not the end of the world or even the season.
We are 20-24, if the Yankees play .600 ball the rest of the way they will have 91 wins. Playoffs would be unlikely, but still that does not make for a bad team. There are 118 games left for gosh sakes, I mean whose to say when Clemens and Hughes are in the rotation we don’t go on an extended run.
If we are 10 games out of the wild card on Sept 1st, feel free to give up on the season. Until then we must continue to keep the faith and win series (which oh by the way we actually have a chance to do tonight).
Randy 1
I was surprised to see Minky in there, too. My only guess is Torre’s thinking about defense. Except the problem has been getting consistent offense, and their difficulties versus lefty pitching this season. Sigh.
Looking at Torre’s face in the dugout, I can’t really remember a time when he looked quite so haggard. Usually, if you tune in the game, looking at Torre will not give a clue about the score. No so much these days. He doesn’t looked panicked, but he looks like a man who’s lost a lot of sleep.
haven’t read all the comments but will say one thing: being good and playing well are two entirely different things. This is a good team, they just aren’t playing well with any consistency. How a good team plays so poorly is beyond me. But only a fool thinks Cano is no better than he’s been playing, same for Abreu, Giambi, Damon, etc… and some of these guys are starting to get it together.
Mussina’s struggles are starting to worry me though.
I am not giving up..Cashman needs to make trades. you can argue of whom etc. but they need to shake this up now..
they need to make trades……
get younger, more flexible, and more athletic…. shake this up NOW>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Chris NY
Great point.
Why are some of you people worried about the payroll, are you George Steinbrenner? Do you really think Moose’s money is going to keep us from signing Buehrle if we want him? It’s one thing to want him gone because he’s not good enough to be a fifth starter, quite another to complain about the payroll. I, for one, feel that I pay enough for tickets, merchandise, hotdogs, beer, and what have you that size of payroll doesn’t matter to me. I really think it shouldn’t matter to anyone but small market fans, and who really cares about them anyway?
A little old… but funny, check it out
http://www.sonsofsamhorn.net/w.....Alikes#MLB
Bravo, Anthony! Well done.
and I agree with Chris NY, too.
Mussina was garbage last night. Just garbage. In light of the fact that he carefully blamed his last poor outing on “long rest” the onus was on him to get out there last night and pitch well, without excuses and in a big spot. Put up or shut up time, in other words.
Well, shut up, Mike. I don’t ever again want to hear excuses or platitudes from him. At the beginning of the year, I thought he had the potential to have a Maddux/Glavine type year where he isn’t going to blow heaters by batters, but control and guile would get him the rest of the way. His control was OK last night but when you’re throwing 85 MPH it has to be perfect or else you’re giving up tons o’ runs and that does NOT cut it in the American League.
Three thoughts.
One, can DeSalvo/Clippard be worse than Mussina at this point? I think the answer is clearly “no” and I’d much rather see a young guy with a live arm and desire out there rather than a cranky over-the-hill Moose.
Two, what in God’s name was Torre thinking leaving Mussina out there in the seventh? I cannot stand the stupidity of managers who don’t realize when pitchers are cooked, either from a pitch-count or game-situational perspective. Bringing in Proctor or Bruney to face Lugo-Youkilis might…just MIGHT..have been a better decision. Ya think? A batter sees 85 MPH Mooseballs for six innings and then you have to face Proctor/Bruney and it seems like the pitches are coming in at 95+.
Three, if you’re not going to argue that Crisp was out at second, what are you going to argue? Torre looks as disinterested as his players.
Another putrid effort last night. Julian Tavarez? 20 men LOB?
Is this team even worth hoping for?
question – is having a 210 million dollar payroll and not making the playoffs acceptable ? not in my book .
Sorry to ask a question here Peter, but I was wondering about the Rajah of Rehab…
Since the guy needs surgery which will basically end his Yankee career – Do yo uthink Cashman is preventing him from getting that surgery because he’ll be healed up at the end of his contract (during which the Yankees pay him the entire time he was hurt for 4 years) and then he can go and sign and perform with somebody else in the ‘09 season? Is this a “you screwed us out of $40 million, now we’ll screw you out of your next contract for ‘09 & ‘10″ situation?
Just wanna give the Cash some props – he needs them wherever he can get them.
One more question…
It’s pretty clear the ship is sinking and a turnaround will be necessary. I’m sure that Big Stein will want to manage for cash at some point rather than dolling it out to a bunch of stiffs like he is now. What is it going to take to have a fire sale? I mean, if they shave $50 million from the payroll, they essentially shave $100 since they might come under the luxury tax threshold. Of course, everything woul dhave to be pro-rated, but we’re talking about serious cash.
Perhaps the Yankee marketing machine can drum up their players a bit to spin them on someone else. A-Rod alone can bring one heck of a bounty (yeah – no trade clause aside, he’d be willing to go to Anaheim with an extension waiting for him if he approves the trade).
Teams need pitching too, maybe if you package an old Moose with a hard throwing bullpen guy (as Torre will have worn most of them out by then) just to clear space…
I know that stuff is unrealisitic, but then – what is realisitic for making this team lean & mean?
I’m starting to think that they’re toast. We seem to have some batters who are falling off of an offensive cliff (I’m looking at you Abreu), some guys, for whom age and injuries are catching up to them (Mussina, Damon, and Giambi), and younger players who are underperforming (Cano, Melky). At the beginning of the year, it was easy to pinpoint the Yankees’ main problems: age/fragility of the rotation, age of position players (and yes 33 is old in baseball years: it’s when guys begin to lose a step and some bat speed), and the bench. All those things have had a tremendous (negative) impact this year. Everything that can go wrong can has gone wrong. At this point, the Yankees need excellent play AND they need help from Boston, Detroit, and Cleveland to win the East/Wild Card. The way those three teams are playing now and how inconsistent the Yankees play, I don’t see that happening.
The only good thing about this nightmare of a season is that maybe, just maybe, all those bandwagon fans from the post-96 era will now become Met fans.
a position player is not old at 33.
The wild card is very much still in reach. I see Cleveland and Detroit smashing each other up, along with playing overall better teams more regularly in the NL Central to keep their overall win totals down. There is noone from the AL West who will contend for the Wild Card.
the one comment i did remember hearing about ARod was that he declined to wave his no-trade clause last year at the deadline, because, at the time, he said as long as the Yankees were in contention, he was going to stay in NY and play with the team. Now, if they do fall out by July 31st, and he and Boras have decided they are planning on exercising the opt out, maybe they’d give BC the consideration of moving him as a rental to a contender before they hit the FA market in the offseason.
i’m not saying I’d do it, just throwing that idea out because i remember hearing it.
Melky not producing the guy has 100 AB’s he is a good young player.
Moose stinks but no way is Desalvo better, Clippard is another story because b=he has more upside and is only 22..
Abreu and Damon did not lose a step in 4 months…
Cano is coming out of it..
Cashman needs to either be a seller(addition by subtraction), make minor moves(bye bye farnsworth and vizciano, nieves etc.), or make a big move (least likely..
DO SOMETHING NOW>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
but do not trade any young studs (ie hughes, clippard, cano, etc…..)
They are old, they don’t compete and they aren’t very good.
Other than that, its a good team.
You can cling to the “hope” this team will turn it around.
We have seen NOTHING to suggest that’s the case. In fact, we have seen the opposite.
Even if they win tonight, what does it mean in the big picture? Nothing.
Anaheim is coming in, they have won 6 in a row, they own the Yankees, and their pitching will shut down this anemic offense without too much trouble.
All Cashman can do is sit tight until the trade deadline and they be in major selling mode. Get rid of as many players as he can, even if it means eating money.
The entire culture of this team needs to change. Its not only too old, they are WAY too soft to compete in the AL East. The 4-12 record for this season against the AL East, proves that point.
If he trades some of the younger pitching talent in this organization to try and save this season, he should be fired on the spot.
This season is already toast because these guys don’t bring it every night. Tino, O’Neill, Girardi, and a bunch of us on this blog have seen it all year. Even Peter is now seeing its not a very good team and they don’t compete like good teams compete on a nightly basis.
When you see pathetic at bats with RISP on a nightly basis and one of your “key” guys be unable to throw a fastball above 85 anymore, you know its going to be a long year.
All this, “its not over ’till its over” stuff is nice but, its not realistic.
Its a dead team and they aren’t coming back to life.
Its just one of those years.
Sad fact is that Tyler could have pitched better than Musssina last night. Not the Yankee Clippard– Tyler Kepner. And will someone please tell me why Myers is still on the team when the one guy he was hired to get out regards him as a Hit-Away device?
Matt (another one) –
I just saw the Coco Crisp steal on Yankees encore. On first viewing, regular speed, he looked safe. On slow-mo replay, it was fairly obvious they had him. However, because Cano had to make the tag on the body and not on the hands, the umpire is just not going to get a good look. Unless the umpire is beyond second base and not in front of it, he’s not going to see that play.
BUT, Coco should not have been on base to begin with. Cano didn’t play his hit cleanly and it cost them a double-play.
Mussina may or may not have been completely cooked at that point, but in my opinion, he was po-ed that Crisp got the steal; he pretty much threw the next pitch right over the middle of the plate. As a veteran pitcher, he should be able to put blinders on. If he was truly gassed, I guess he couldn’t and after Lugo’s hit, he should have been removed.
However, this game turned on the bottom of the 5th, when Jeter and Matsui could not get the job done. Two soft grounders. I knew Jeter generally (more than generally, almost 1/2 the time) comes through in these situaations, but as Pete said, Taveras was serving the game up to them at that point, and they let it go.
I still the Yankees can turn things around and have a better remainder of the season. Baseball is the game of eternal hope. Or eternal pain.
To the “do something now” crowd. What can Cashman do “now”?
Do you guys understand the way baseball works? A lot of teams still believe they are in the hunt for a playoff spot.
Nobody is trading anybody of value anywhere right now.
Why in the world would they consider trading for the sludge on the Yankees roster?
You really think guys like Vizcaino, Farnsworth, etc. have markets?
Nobody wants these guys. Hell, we don’t want them on the Yankees. What makes you think they can pawn them off on other teams and get something of value in return?
Face it, they are stuck. They have a bunch of old underachievers and the trade market is a month-6 weeks away from heating up. There is nothing Cashman can do.
He played his one big card…..Roger Clemens. Unfortunately, his underachieving, non-competitive team stopped playing for the 2-3 weeks Clemens needed to get ready and played themselves out of the race.
This is a year where we as fans just have to suck it up and hope like hell he doesn’t trade real assets to fix what’s broken with the parent club.
David, you arent the only one to notice that… way to go, lefty specialist!
Baseball is a strange game. You can have all the pieces and still not be able to put the puzzle together. At the beginning of the season, most of us here felt the Yankees and Red Sox were pretty much evenly matched, give or take. But the Sox are getting production out of mediocrity and the Yankees are not getting production out of stars. I know I’m just re-stating the obvious with that one.
People could say the Yankees had some weaknesses at the beginning of the season, and they could say that they would not have an easy time of winning this season. But I don’t think ANYONE would EVER have seen all of this coming on. I keep harping on that, and I realize it doesn’t change the outcome. It’s just that I don’t think Cashman/Torre are inept. I think their hands are tied — not too much you can do in the trade market; Torre can’t hit/pitch. And although you can argue some of his in-game decisions haven’t been stellar, it still comes down to execution by the players, who on any given night may or may not come through.
Mussina will turn it around, and he’ll end the season with 13 – 15 wins and a sub 4ERA. Nothing spectacular but good enough for a three guy. The thing that upsets me about him is that he always collapses when he gets a bad call or a play in the field doesn’t go his way. In the first inning yesterday it looked like he struck out Youkillis but it was called a ball. Then Youkillis hit a single, Ortiz hit a single, and Manny hit a homerun. He never seems to recover when something doesn’t go his way, and then he just throws batting practice. He’s a smart pitcher though, and he will get some wins.
One thing I will point out is that pitching isn’t the problem here. Yes Mussina had a bad start, but we have had many good starts by our starting pitching that have garnered losses because of a lathargic offense. I admit that I wish we had a more emotional clubhouse. I miss the days of Paul O’Neil busting up water coolers and throwing batting helmets when he got out in a big spot. Now Yankee players get an out, sit back on the bench, and then mentally count all the money they’ve made over the years.
Moose lets emotions get in the way way too often. He was obviously upset by some lowsy strikes that were called balls in the first, and rightfully so. Manny then got a meatball with the count 2-0. Then Coco’s steal seemed to get to him as well.
I’m probably in the minority here, but I’m all for instant replay in baseball. In addition to completely automating the strike zone.
Off topic but this is as good a place as any to vent about a discussion I had with 2 coworkers this morning. Enough about the Yankee payroll! Have the Yankees spent a billion dollars in salary since they last won a world series? Yup, but the same could be said for 20+ other teams in MLB. The difference is the Yankees have done it in a compact number of years.
A sub-par and fiscally responsible Yankees team is financially bad for MLB. If the Yankees weren’t paying luxury tax, revenue sharing and drawing large crowds to away games, then haters would really have something to moan about. MLB teams without that share of the money might have to make tougher decisions in whether they can afford a player. In other words, the Yankees might be helping to pay for the player that hits the homerun or pitches the 3 hitter that beat them.
SJ$$ you are partly right that there probably is not much market for Vizciano and Farnsworth then send them to the minors..That should give them a wake up call and we will go from there.
I also think the market for players often is better then you think, the Yanks traded RJ and jarret Wright in the off season, some one wanted them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Again everything you said is accurate especially not trading good young talent but the 1 thing you are wrong on is the Yanks have no chance for the playoffs they do.
The Central teams are going to kill each other, the Yanks schedule for the final 138 games is prestty good, and they will play better….The ANgels will win the west the west stinks…..
Oakland is done….But showing way more gusto then the Ynaks(they have tons of injuiries)…
if clemens, hughes and the other 3 can pitch together for 2 or 3 months that will help a ton…………..
The one silver lining here is that the Kids are Alright. Hughes and Clippard could/should easily be part of the rotation from here on out (after Hughes returns, of course). And although we have seen a lot of young pitching talent this year at the ML level (Rasner and Karstens could be useful in some role in the future, and you’ve gotta love anyone who reads Camus and Confucious like DeSalvo), but there is also a seeming wealth of additional talent below in the minors. Just yesterday Chamberlain had another good outing for Tampa (6 innings, 4 hits, 2 ers, 7 sos), Horne ditto for Trenton (6.1 innings, 1 er, 7 sos), and Britton as well (2.2 innings, 0 hits, 3 sos). Particularly interesting are two guys recently promoted from Tampa (Kroenke who dominated there as a reliever and his first appearance at Trenton was similar (1.2 innings, 1 hit, 0 runs, 2 sos) and Trenton (Ramirez who was phenomenal there (2 sos per inning, 1 run in 16 plus innings and a baa of .103) and has started at Scranton in the same way (3 innings , 0 runs, 6 sos)). This is not to mention our 4 TJS (Tommy John surgeries in past year or so (Sanchez, Garcia, Cox and one other I can’t recall) and Ohlendorf (is he hurt?) and Jackson. I do not recall ever having so many quality arms in the system. The other side of it though is that Eric Duncan may not be what we all hoped he would be, and Tabata, while doing well for Tampa (near .300 but with little power so far) is at least 2 years away. That is probably about it as far as positional players on the first three levels. If I were running the team, I would cut/trade Myers and trade Farnsworth and elevate Britton and Ramirez to settle them in at the major league level. I would also give serious consideration to trading Mussina to a National League team for help at 1st base and let Hughes and Clippard pitch. I would also cut/trade Cairo and bring up Basak who, while not a “prospect” (he is hitting close to .300 at Scranton) would be just as versatile as Cairo and add more speed and probably a better bat. This is not my way of giving up on the season (I think the AL East is gone), but there is a reasonable shot at the WC if we start winning more often. I truly think the team would be more competitive if structured in this manner.
Pat the Yanks are baseball, listen to espn sometime. they are either talking about how good the yanks are or how bad they are. I live in LA you hear it here…
The Yanks are baseball ask the KC ownership……..
sox nation is nothing to the Yanks… Ask a TV exec. who he wants to be in the baseball playoffs? Florida vs Minny or the Yanks vs anyone????????????
40% of MLB gear sold is Yankee gear..40% there are 29 other teams, people love to hate the big bad yankees……
There is nothing in reach for the Yankees. They aren’t able to play any better than they are now. THEY CAN’T HIT AGAINST TAVAREZ, then what hope if there really.
Let’s just pretend they get to the playoffs. Well, it’ll be just like it has been these past couple years. They are going to get knocked out in the 1st round. These set of Yankees can’t hit against good pitchers. This is the problem with power hitters. Power hitters need a pitching mistake to happen to whack one. We need a team with the talent like we had in the mid to late 90’s. Guys who get things done. Station to station baseball.
No World Series has been won in this decade as we replaced all the dirt dogs with elite power hitters.
Cashman can get trades done now if he moves the right people. There are teams that would love to get some of our players, but Cashman is a little headed turd who keeps giving players no trade clauses.
This team as it is now, will not get into the playoffs or come close to winning this division. Only a total collapse of the Red Sox would allow it to happen and that won’t happen. Not this year with what Theo put together again.
Test Giambi today for amphetamines. I can guarantee they are in his system with the pain he is going through. Toss that fat ass back to California.
Re the Wild Card. Sure, Cleveland and Detroit may beat up on each other, but I’m not nearly as confident that the White Sox and Twins can be counted on to help bring Cleveland and Detroit back to earth. Plus, what about this team makes people think they can start playing . 620 baseball?
Also, I’m with SJ44 on the Yankees being stuck here. The Yankees have aging players with big contracts that are unmovable. Damon, Abreu, Giambi, Matsui, and A-Rod all have full or partial no-trade clauses. So, in-season, the only moves that can be made is to upgrade first base or Rf (moving Abreu to the bench); sure, they could move A-Rod (if he would agree), but I can’t see that making the team better. And even if they do upgrade first base (or the bench), will that make the difference? What’s out there that can be got without squandering the few minor league chits the Yanks have?
Going forward, if A-Rod opts out and they let Abreu go, the Yankees would have three line-up spots (1b, 3b, Rf) where upgrades could be made, but the rest of the line-up (with the exception of Cano), would be filled by players entering their age 33 seasons or older. And what free agents can be got to fill the other three positions that won’t keep the Yankees on the aging, free agent treadmill?
where is pete with the daily “Today in the Journal News” post?
Keep in mind, also, that it is not going to be all that easy to get free agents to New York. It’s no longer just a matter of who is available; it is also who is willing to come here. And if the Yankees look like they’re a rebuilding team, the field might shrink.
What can we as fans do to demand that this team fight? That they go nutso at a bad umpiring call? That they retaliate when a Boston Bushleague pitcher for the 9,000,000th time throws at a NY batter? That they complain when a Boston Busheleague baserunner runs 10 feet out of the basepath to break up the double play?
Instead, what we have is a bunch of “classy” (read: lethargic losers) who act as punching bags for everyone who would stoop to the level of taking advantage of such a weakness. And I’m not even sure it’s stooping if your opponent willingly lets walk all over them. Sox sportswriter enthusiastically point out that NY never retaliates. On the Sox boards they call for Schilling to drill Alex, and so forth.
And all the while they have the BALLS to complain about Alex “throwing an elbow” to the cheating chump at 2B to break up the DP. I think it was the one moment of retaliation we had.
I am sick of bad umpiring. I am sick of injuries, real and imagined. I am sick of bad managing. I am sick of the lethargy. I am sick of “taking high roads”. I am sick of another year where are players act like overpaid underachievers and show no balls-to-the-wall fight – or when they do, they can’t maintain the fight for more than a game. It’s ridiculous, and I believe it starts with the manager – the guy who famously said last year, “They’re my guys. If I have to talk to them, then they’re not my guys.” Well, if the manager can’t even be bothered to fight for “his guys”, when, say, Crisp is thrown out at second or another pitcher again throws dangerously close at the face of his franchise (Jeter) … then what can we expect from the rest of the team???
At least Alex is showing some kind of fight. For the love of god, will anyone else??? If that scumbag Schilling DARES feel obligated to “retaliate” for last night (which as I said is ridiculous given that Alex’s move was itself a retaliation), then I hope there’s a brawl, I hope Alex destroys Varitek first and then Schilling, I hope Giambi runs off the bench with a bat in his hand and takes out a few legs, I hope Farnsworth (as useless as he is) runs in from the BP and rips Pukeilis’s melon-sized ugly ass head from his shoulders, I hope …
Ah, whatever. I don’t think I have any hope left…. I am sick of being so emotionally invested in a team that doesn’t care for my mental well being…
/end of rant
You can’t just send veterans to the minors. There are procedural issues involved, given some guys veteran status. So, that “punishment” goes can’t happen.
Don’t confuse off-season deals with in-season deals. Its MUCH easier to trade guys in the off-season, especially bigger names, than it is during the season.
Its still a business folks, and some teams (especially the bad teams) don’t want to show their fans they are throwing in the towel. They will hold onto their assets (Texiera, Miguel Cabrera, Dontrelle Willis, as examples) so they can still draw fans this season and make some money.
Doreen has it right. Sometimes, you put together a team and THINK you have the right mix. However, for whatever reason, it doesn’t click. This team hasn’t clicked all year and, barring some unforeseen miracle, its not happening this year.
I thought this would be the best bullpen the Yankees have had in 5 years. I couldn’t have been more off-base. Even Mo can’t pitch consistently anymore. Nobody gets anybody out with any level of consistency and they walk WAY too many hitters. I think they are either first or second in the majors this year in walks out of the ‘pen. Not good.
While the lack of another righty bat concerned me, I never would have thought guys like Damon, Abreu and Cano would decline as quickly as they have as players.
Honestly, I didn’t think Giambi had much left in the tank, so his decline is not a surprise to me.
The overall ineptness of the offense? When you think about it, its a carryover from the post-season’s since Game 4 of the 2004 ALCS.
They don’t hit in the clutch anymore. For all the gaudy numbers, its an inconsistent offense that gets shut down WAY too easily by bad pitchers. A real sign of the lack of fight with this team.
Matsui? Not the same hitter since he broke his wrist. No power, no gap ability anymore. Ironically, he is playing better in the OF. No idea how to explain that. Great guy, hard worker, nothing more than a #7 hitter (at best) at this stage of his career.
The starters? I actually look forward to watching Andy, Wang and Clippard pitch. I can’t wait to see Clemens and Hughes when they are ready. Moose? Always has been an excuse-ridden, “what if” guy with the Yankees.
When you need to win a game, like they did last night, Mike Mussina is, by far, the WORST option the Yankees have for that job. I’d rather take my shot with a rookie than Moose.
He was re-signed (correctly so, IMO) to build a bridge to the future. Unfortunately, that “future” may be now because you can’t keep rolling the guy out there to throw that slop and expect to win anything. A few more starts and I hope Moose finds another injury to DL himself and makes a graceful exit off the stage. Its over for him. You can’t pitch against Texas every week. He’s done.
Win or lose tonight, the hole they have dug for themselves is too deep. Don’t give me the 1978 talk. That team was loaded with players who won a Championship in 1977. They knew how to win.
This team? Loaded with players who fell apart in the playoffs last year and carried it over to this season. Two different teams. Two different eras. Two different levels of fight between those two teams.
As this season unfolds, I hope its used as a test lab for some of the younger players who are playing very well in AAA and AA. Find ways to give them a shot and see if you have something with these guys.
We already know what we have or, more accurately, don’t have on the parent roster. I am ready to see some younger, hungrier faces and see if some of those guys can be penciled in for the future.
It can’t hurt. If nothing else, it will give the fans hope for the future. Its sure as hell better than watching this sleep inducing team on a nightly basis.
Pete, you will endear yourself to many if – if after they get hit and don’t retaliate – you ask Torre point-blank why he is not protecting his players.
Heck, ask Guidry or any of the coaches or the relievers or the starter or any of the position players or, god, ask anyone you have access to: “Why are you allowing yourselves to be walked all over?”
A $200,000,000 investement. You’d think someone on that team would care about sending a signal to other teams and the umps that they’re not gonna let someone intentionally try to injure or damage the investement.
Pete, you will endear yourself to many if – if after they get hit and don’t retaliate – you ask Torre point-blank why he is not protecting his players.
Heck, ask Guidry or any of the coaches or the relievers or the starter or any of the position players or, god, ask anyone you have access to: “Why are you allowing yourselves to be walked all over?”
A $200,000,000 investement. You’d think someone on that team would care about sending a signal to other teams and the umps that they’re not gonna let someone intentionally try to injure or damage the investement – AND that they, the Yanks, are there to FIGHT LIKE HELL.
Well said, SJ44. I don’t see how you couldn’t feel optimistic coming into this season. Sure, there were some “what-ifs” – what if this guy breaks down, what if this other guy wasn’t as good as he was last year. Who would have thought that they would ALL happen?
I see that you want to see more young & hungry guys playing, and I agree – what do you think about Torre? Do you think he should be allowed to “finish (his) tenure with dignity” like in Ian O’Connor’s article today, or do you think he should be let go mid-season?
Oh no, Pete…don’t tell me you are drinking the Kool-Aid as well!!! I expect the yanks to win tonight, but even if they don’t, all is not lost…
It is hard to be positive after a loss, but this team has the tools to make a run. I agree that they haven’t been able to string good pitching together with good hitting on most nights, but they have certainly shown that they are capable of both against some of the best competition in the league.
No matter how bad it is right now, it is still May and the yanks have played about as badly as they can possibly play. The law of averages will kick in and they will start playing better. This team can still win well over 90 games, especially with the rotation that we will have for the rest of the season…it ain’t over yet!
Let’s not throw in the towel, please!
“There comes a point where you have to accept that a team that…should be good just isn’t good.”
How does the manager escape blame if the team “should be good?”
They need someone new leading this team and I’m not talking about Don Mattingly.
SJ44, while i dont necessarily agree with everything you’ve said about the demise of the complete season, I, too, do find it increasingly aggravating to watch this team, as constructed, on a night-in/night-out basis… I see nothing from them as far as a consistent effort is concerned. It’s frustrating.
and if this is what it has come down to, then count me in on continuing to bring in some of these young guys.
Who knows what Tyler Clippard can actually do at this level for his career? Good or bad, you have to appreciate the effort he put out there on that mound, and the attitude he had about his whole situation. He said it was the greatest night of his whole life, and he had hoped the way he pitched earned him another start… it really meant something to him, and he’s hungry for more… these vets on this team could seem to learn something from these young kids.
“In other words, the Yankees might be helping to pay for the player that hits the homerun or pitches the 3 hitter that beat them.”
you’re right. baseball socialism sucks. the yankees should leave and start up another league. that’s what tiger woods threatened when the golf commissioner finchem tried to tell tiger what to do. he was going to take the top 40 players with him and form another tour.
the yankees , red sox mets,etc should drop out and make their own league with no financial restraints. that’s how the real world works. they could meet the other salary cap league in a world series still. the unrestricted league winner would annihilate the salary cap league winner. it would also have better baseball all the time.
under the presesnt mlb set up,to get to the playoffs every year , i think it will take about 250 million a year to guarantee annual entry.
the reason is that long range contracts create so much dead wood.
players have to be written off and new ones need to be signed to replace them.
the other alternative in this new market is to rebuild every 5 years or so,and go younger and cheaper and let them all mature together. once they mature and are really good,it’ll take 250 million to keep them. so if you don’t want to spend that, you have to start all over again. younger and cheaper only works for a 2-3 year peak period. then they are not younger and cheaper again.
i think we all are going to have to learn as much about marketplace economics as what goes on the field to have a clue what’s going on.
right now the yankees have some bad contracts. in this new baseball market, i think they should write them off and pay big for new long term contracts that they’ll probably have to write off 5-6 years from now. it’s the price of getting to the playoffs every year.
I don’t think they should fire Torre for two reasons and neither have to do with sentinmentality:
1. I wouldn’t saddle somebody else with this team. Its not fair. Its too flawed, to set in its ways for anybody to fix on the fly.
2. I don’t see the “right” candidate available right now. Mattingly shouldn’t be the next manager under any circumstances. Too inexperienced, too much like Joe. Bad fit all around. Plus, his “one day audition” when Torre was suspended, frankly, scared the crap out of me. He can’t do this job.
Girardi? If the team is reloading with a mix of good young and older, not set in their ways, veteran players, I’m in. If they are still too, “set in their ways veteran” oriented, wrong choice. He will be good copy, because he will punch out some of the underachievers. However, the older guys would tune him out.
I think Torre should get the rest of the season, then you move on. Clearly, he won’t be back next year anyway so, IMO, that’s the right way to play it.
This team needs players, not fire the manager. Too many flaws and no manager, not even Jim Leyland, can fix this in-season.
Randy, I am not averse to spending money. Its HOW you spend it. That’s the key, IMO.
For example, whatever it takes, they need to get Giambi off this team for next year. His contract kills them in numerous ways, let alone his declining on field performance.
Great guy, needs to be gone and, IMO, this will be his last year in New York. All the signs point to his exit.
If they can get rid of Giambi, and not bring back Roger next year, that frees up 41 million dollars.
They could sign Torii Hunter AND Ichiro and still have 8-10 million left over. In other words, enough money to re-sign ARod, a MUST.
Think about that for a minute. They can DH Damon. If they give Matsui a first basemen’s mitt and put Melky in LF, they have the best defensive OF in baseball with Melky, Hunter and Ichiro. With all that young pitching in place, and a more versatile, athletic and balanced lineup, you have something.
That’s just one example of what can be done with a little creatively, some guts, and the ability to get Giambi off the books.
SJ44 Cano’s demise the guy is 23… He is in a slump. most of your other comments are accurate. I also thought the pen would be better; the yhave hard throwers, Bruney, Proctor, farnsworthless, etc.. But year to date the results are very mixed.
Laugh at me the red sux are old and offensively similar to the Yanks but there starting pitching is so much better it makes all the difference in the world..
maybe Cashman really has been holding this together for years trying to hide the bad contract, slow declining players, and it has finally caught up to them!!!
We will see….Trades still should be made and a effort to save the season should be excercised.
When Clemens comes back next week I send down DeSalvo and give Clippard a few starts until Hughes comes back. CLippard has more upside then Desalvo, no I am not saying he is the 2nd coming of whomever but he is a legit prospect….
SJ they can also designate Vizciano and others for assignment and if the yare picked up choose to release them, assign them to the minors, or make a trade….
they need a backup catcher or Jorge will die soon……..
Giambi I think he has declined but I still think he can play, his #’s last year was good, he still has a good eye, so I do not see him as an MVP but a dreck is another story.. BTW the LA Times today laughed at the Giambi to the Angels rumor…
I also want to applaud Arod for his hustle and tough slide last night, bravo Arod showing he cares…..Good job..
sj44-
you’ve said in the past you have no trouble with giving up on this season and starting fresh next year. is that still your position? it’s a legitimate position. it seems there’s two schools of thought. give up this year to be better later or make it this year and still plan for the future.
i’m of the latter school. you seem to be of the former school.
Fight!
Proctor hit one of the Red Sox on Monday then the Red Sox retaliated. Were the Yankees supposed to then hit somebody else?
As for arguing about umpire calls, you let me know the next time arguing gets a judgment call changed and I’ll agree with you. Those things all even out.
the problem with ichiro and hunter are the yare both in there 30’s already and are going to want multi year contracts.. been there and done that…………
but yes they would be much more athletic and the yankee young arms are the bright light for this dark period.
rasner, karstens, and desalvo are 5th starters best case scenario but hughes, clippard, sanchez, and others are legit front end of rotation prospects…….
Bill Parcells, the football coach, put it succinctly when he said (in effect), “You are what your record says you are.” With more than 40 games gone by, the team we see is the real team. I’m old enough to remember (barely) the 1965 team. Then, too, everyone had a hard time believing it was over; with every faint glimmer, it seemed the old magic was returning. The season ended, of course, with the yankees finishing sixth.
Pete,
they may even out the bad calls but so far the Yanks are on the short end of the stick by a ton. also the hitting guys is overated. The yanks need to do more of it but at the right time, not in a tight game, not when it can hurt the team…
Count me in the blind optimist club. I think the Yankees will come around, without a significant acquisition this year. I don’t know why, I just choose to believe it.
Am I the only member of this club? Or are there any other faithful fans out there?
Hunter and Ichiro are physically in better shape than any of the Yankee OF’s outside of Melky. They can both still play and, in Ichiro’s case, has a body that could have him playing into his 40’s.
The Yankees don’t have ANY position players in minors even close to being ready to help them. Shelley Duncan is another Andy Phillips and nothing more. If possible, I would do what it takes to sign BOTH Hunter and Ichiro in the off-season.
Randy, ABSOLUTELY, I would bail on this season.
You watch enough baseball, you can tell teams that are grinders, fighters but, are just having a bad run of luck. Those are the teams you help during the season.
A team of dogs which, sadly, this team is, you NEVER help. You just play it out and use the season to “test” some of the younger guys in the organization and see if they can be helpful in the future.
I watch a lot of minor league Yankee baseball. Its how I spend a lot of my summers. They are LOADED up and down the organization with pitching prospects in various stages of development. That gives them options.
IMO, if they can clear the decks of a few bad contracts, they can go “all in” for guys like Hunter and Ichiro because they will have the pitching to back up those moves. Its kind of the reverse of what’s its been in the organization in recent years.
As far as positional players, Tabata is going to be a player. But, he is only 18 and not even close to being ready physically.
Alberto Gonzalez (AAA) can be a good utility player at the major league level. The rest of the guys at AA and AAA, position players-wise? Not that good.
Their young catcher in Tampa, Francisco Cervelli? Stud. I am VERY impressed with him. I could see that kid in the majors in two years. He can hit, throw and is excellent behind the plate. He just turned 21. He could be the catcher of the future.
The rest of the position players, aside from Tabata and Cervelli? Mitch Hilligoss and Austin Jackson show some promise in Charleston. Other than that, its light on that front.
My point in all of this is, they have the young pitching to be bold in terms of getting Hunter and Ichiro. In fact, upgrading the defense will do nothing but help the pitching staff.
They just need to clear the decks of some very bad contracts and they could do that at the deadline this year if they swallow their pride and realize this season is a lost cause.
peter a.-
what i notice is that everyone is testy including us on this blog. i’m in the middle of red sox nation and they started to freak out when the yankees won the first game. if the yankees had won that game last night, full scale dread would have set in. so they’re edgy. we need the game . we’re edgy. if red sox fans and players want to get in a tizzy over arod taking out their little second baseman, the only thing i can say is get a bigger second baseman.
it didn’t push my buttons when pedroia was too far from the base when he went after jeter.
the red sox sox seem to be an unusual mix of macho and sensitive . maybe they are the new metrosexual baseball player. if they want to fight fine. the yankees can’t get any worse. the red sox can. they want to kick the sleeping dog. be my guest.
* Jeff NJ
Count me in the blind optimist club. I think the Yankees will come around, without a significant acquisition this year. I don’t know why, I just choose to believe it.
Am I the only member of this club? Or are there any other faithful fans out there?
I’m also of the faithful, but this season so far has been disparaging. I still believe they have the team that can turn it around, but I’ve been saying that for a month now. What it comes down to is for them to start fighting for each other. Back up arod on that slide. Return the favor when a better is hit. Not overly crazy, but enough to light a fire in their bellies. I think they expect to much and believed too much in the press after ST. It’s now or never and these guys need to find out who they are and start putting it together. Maybe Clemens’ presence makes a difference. Maybe his attitude gets them going and in three – four weeks, we see a completely different team. But I for one, am willing to wait it out and support them until it’s over. I may be a fool, but I’m also a fan.
Jeff NJ,
I’m trying to stay positive. I still beleive the division can be won, but I am thoroughly frustrated with this team. They simply look like a disinterested team with the exception of a few players. They have to be the most unclutch team right now, I mean how many runners have they left in scoring position this month? And how many good pitching performances has this offense completely let go to waist? I’m really getting sick of it.
That being said, these players are too good to continue this way.
If they don’t show “fight” until they are hopelessly out of the race, is it really showing “fight”?
One would think, if this team possessed it, we would have seen it already.
Clearly, not enough guys have it and its not going to “magically” appear, no matter how much we may wish for it.
Unfortunately, its a soft group, as Tino, O’Neill and Girardi have all pointed out in the past 10 days.
Peter Abraham:
> Proctor hit one of the Red Sox on Monday then the Red Sox retaliated. Were the Yankees supposed to then hit somebody else?
You’re actually making my point: the Sox retaliated, the Yanks don’t.
And not to sound biased (because Proctor’s one of ours), but I think it was obvious to everyone that he wasn’t trying to hit whoever it was that night. To answer your question, though, yeah, when one of theirs clearly throws at one of ours, if the ump doesn’t give a warning then I’d brush back the next one of their guys up in a big spot.
It’s ridiculous that year after year the Yanks let opposing pitchers sometimes almost wreck Jeter’s career with those pitches that would hit him in the face if he doesn’t duck; and yet we can’t throw high and inside to Ortiz, who just stands there hovering over home plate as comfortable as a pig in crap.
> As for arguing about umpire calls, you let me know the next time arguing gets a judgment call changed and I’ll agree with you. Those things all even out.
And you’ve watched alot of baseball? Teams and managers appeal to third base umpires all the time, and umpires are called to confer over things like, take a pick, “Was it a homerun or not?” yada yada
I truly believe the other night when Cano tagged out the guy by about 16 feet, that had they appealed to the 3B ump – who *should* have had the same view as Alex, who said the runner was clearly out – that they would’ve overturned that bad call, esp. given that the umpire himself knew it was a bad call. But instead NY went down as quietly as a tiny fart in a bathtub and the game got screwed.
But more than that, it’s the psychological aspect of the game: looking like complete and utter pathetic fools with no fight in them, which then affects play, versus getting fiery and passionate, which motivates the players and also affects play.
If I’ve said it once I’ve said it nineteen trillion times: the “manager’s” “calming and soothing and pat-on-the-ass ‘It’s all going to be ok’” demeanor doesn’t help a damn thing. He’s acting like a loser and it’s infectious. They are not acting like winners. And it all should start with the manager.
* SJ44
They just need to clear the decks of some very bad contracts and they could do that at the deadline this year if they swallow their pride and realize this season is a lost cause.
I am not of that mind yet. This season is salvageable, but it comes down to the team. They’re the ones who will determine whether or not this team will make it. I believe it will make it happen. The law of averages dictates abreu, cano, and matsui can’t flounder like this all year, so with the pitching somewhat restored, I think we have the foundation to make a turnaround.
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Peter:
> Proctor hit one of the Red Sox on Monday then the Red Sox retaliated. Were the Yankees supposed to then hit somebody else?
You’re actually making my point: the Sox retaliated, the Yanks don’t.
And not to sound biased (because Proctor’s one of ours), but I think it was obvious to everyone that he wasn’t trying to hit whoever it was that night. To answer your question, though, yeah, when one of theirs clearly throws at one of ours, if the ump doesn’t give a warning then I’d brush back the next one of their guys up in a big spot.
It’s ridiculous that year after year the Yanks let opposing pitchers sometimes almost wreck Jeter’s career with those pitches that would hit him in the face if he doesn’t duck; and yet we can’t throw high and inside to Ortiz, who just stands there hovering over home plate as comfortable as a pig in crap.
> As for arguing about umpire calls, you let me know the next time arguing gets a judgment call changed and I’ll agree with you. Those things all even out.
And you’ve watched alot of baseball? Teams and managers appeal to third base umpires all the time, and umpires are called to confer over things like, take a pick, “Was it a homerun or not?” yada yada
I truly believe the other night when Cano tagged out the guy by about 16 feet, that had they appealed to the 3B ump – who *should* have had the same view as Alex, who said the runner was clearly out – that they would’ve overturned that bad call, esp. given that the umpire himself knew it was a bad call. But instead NY went down as quietly as a tiny fart in a bathtub and the game got screwed.
But more than that, it’s the psychological aspect of the game: looking like complete and utter pathetic fools with no fight in them, which then affects play, versus getting fiery and passionate, which motivates the players and also affects play.
If I’ve said it once I’ve said it nineteen trillion times: the “manager’s” “calming and soothing and pat-on-the-ass ‘It’s all going to be ok’” demeanor doesn’t help a damn thing. He’s acting like a loser and it’s infectious. They are not acting like winners. And it all should start with the manager.
“Unfortunately, its a soft group, as Tino, O’Neill and Girardi have all pointed out in the past 10 days.”
these guys are part of the yankee culture. given their roles they’re doing what they can. what’s that goofy plaque george has on his desk,” lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way.”? maybe right now it’s less goofy than other times. maybe torre is burnt out. maybe he needs to take charge and resign. or let himself be bumped up to special gm under cashman. at a certain point ,you need to take one for the team if you can’t lead anymore. maybe joe has to fire himself. girardi is the one who could light a fire this summer and who could handle the transition better to younger players if it goes that way. if torre asked girardi to do it, he would in a heartbeat.
From Jordan:
I like how everyone is overreacting to Mussina’s start. Yeah, he had an off night, but we’re still talking about a fairly healthy pitcher who threw about 200 innings last year with a 3.50 ERA in the AL East. I mean, how the crap can he be “washed up� one year removed from a season like that? Even if he was, how would you be able to tell after only five starts?
Jordan, take a look at David Cone in 2000. There is your answer as to how. Can Mussina be going down the same road? Quite possibly.
Cone 1999 12-9. 3.44, perfect game. 193 1/3 IP
Postseason 2-0. 14 IP. 2 r, 8h, 8 bb, 13 K.
2000?
4-14, 6.91.
Does that answer your question???