I like how everyone is overreacting to Mussina’s start. Yeah, he had an off night, but we’re still talking about a fairly healthy pitcher who threw about 200 innings last year with a 3.50 ERA in the AL East. I mean, how the crap can he be “washed up� one year removed from a season like that? Even if he was, how would you be able to tell after only five starts?

Jordan, take a look at David Cone in 2000. There is your answer as to how. Can Mussina be going down the same road? Quite possibly.

Cone 1999 12-9. 3.44, perfect game. 193 1/3 IP
Postseason 2-0. 14 IP. 2 r, 8h, 8 bb, 13 K.

2000?
4-14, 6.91.

Does that answer your question???

Peter:

> Proctor hit one of the Red Sox on Monday then the Red Sox retaliated. Were the Yankees supposed to then hit somebody else?

You’re actually making my point: the Sox retaliated, the Yanks don’t.

And not to sound biased (because Proctor’s one of ours), but I think it was obvious to everyone that he wasn’t trying to hit whoever it was that night. To answer your question, though, yeah, when one of theirs clearly throws at one of ours, if the ump doesn’t give a warning then I’d brush back the next one of their guys up in a big spot.

It’s ridiculous that year after year the Yanks let opposing pitchers sometimes almost wreck Jeter’s career with those pitches that would hit him in the face if he doesn’t duck; and yet we can’t throw high and inside to Ortiz, who just stands there hovering over home plate as comfortable as a pig in crap.

> As for arguing about umpire calls, you let me know the next time arguing gets a judgment call changed and I’ll agree with you. Those things all even out.

And you’ve watched alot of baseball? Teams and managers appeal to third base umpires all the time, and umpires are called to confer over things like, take a pick, “Was it a homerun or not?” yada yada

I truly believe the other night when Cano tagged out the guy by about 16 feet, that had they appealed to the 3B ump – who *should* have had the same view as Alex, who said the runner was clearly out – that they would’ve overturned that bad call, esp. given that the umpire himself knew it was a bad call. But instead NY went down as quietly as a tiny fart in a bathtub and the game got screwed.

But more than that, it’s the psychological aspect of the game: looking like complete and utter pathetic fools with no fight in them, which then affects play, versus getting fiery and passionate, which motivates the players and also affects play.

If I’ve said it once I’ve said it nineteen trillion times: the “manager’s” “calming and soothing and pat-on-the-ass ‘It’s all going to be ok’” demeanor doesn’t help a damn thing. He’s acting like a loser and it’s infectious. They are not acting like winners. And it all should start with the manager.

I am not of that mind yet. This season is salvageable, but it comes down to the team. They’re the ones who will determine whether or not this team will make it. I believe it will make it happen. The law of averages dictates abreu, cano, and matsui can’t flounder like this all year, so with the pitching somewhat restored, I think we have the foundation to make a turnaround.

> Proctor hit one of the Red Sox on Monday then the Red Sox retaliated. Were the Yankees supposed to then hit somebody else?

You’re actually making my point: the Sox retaliated, the Yanks don’t.

And not to sound biased (because Proctor’s one of ours), but I think it was obvious to everyone that he wasn’t trying to hit whoever it was that night. To answer your question, though, yeah, when one of theirs clearly throws at one of ours, if the ump doesn’t give a warning then I’d brush back the next one of their guys up in a big spot.

It’s ridiculous that year after year the Yanks let opposing pitchers sometimes almost wreck Jeter’s career with those pitches that would hit him in the face if he doesn’t duck; and yet we can’t throw high and inside to Ortiz, who just stands there hovering over home plate as comfortable as a pig in crap.

> As for arguing about umpire calls, you let me know the next time arguing gets a judgment call changed and I’ll agree with you. Those things all even out.

And you’ve watched alot of baseball? Teams and managers appeal to third base umpires all the time, and umpires are called to confer over things like, take a pick, “Was it a homerun or not?” yada yada

I truly believe the other night when Cano tagged out the guy by about 16 feet, that had they appealed to the 3B ump – who *should* have had the same view as Alex, who said the runner was clearly out – that they would’ve overturned that bad call, esp. given that the umpire himself knew it was a bad call. But instead NY went down as quietly as a tiny fart in a bathtub and the game got screwed.

But more than that, it’s the psychological aspect of the game: looking like complete and utter pathetic fools with no fight in them, which then affects play, versus getting fiery and passionate, which motivates the players and also affects play.

If I’ve said it once I’ve said it nineteen trillion times: the “manager’s” “calming and soothing and pat-on-the-ass ‘It’s all going to be ok’” demeanor doesn’t help a damn thing. He’s acting like a loser and it’s infectious. They are not acting like winners. And it all should start with the manager.

One would think, if this team possessed it, we would have seen it already.

Clearly, not enough guys have it and its not going to “magically” appear, no matter how much we may wish for it.

Unfortunately, its a soft group, as Tino, O’Neill and Girardi have all pointed out in the past 10 days.

I’m trying to stay positive. I still beleive the division can be won, but I am thoroughly frustrated with this team. They simply look like a disinterested team with the exception of a few players. They have to be the most unclutch team right now, I mean how many runners have they left in scoring position this month? And how many good pitching performances has this offense completely let go to waist? I’m really getting sick of it.

That being said, these players are too good to continue this way.

Count me in the blind optimist club. I think the Yankees will come around, without a significant acquisition this year. I don’t know why, I just choose to believe it.

Am I the only member of this club? Or are there any other faithful fans out there?

I’m also of the faithful, but this season so far has been disparaging. I still believe they have the team that can turn it around, but I’ve been saying that for a month now. What it comes down to is for them to start fighting for each other. Back up arod on that slide. Return the favor when a better is hit. Not overly crazy, but enough to light a fire in their bellies. I think they expect to much and believed too much in the press after ST. It’s now or never and these guys need to find out who they are and start putting it together. Maybe Clemens’ presence makes a difference. Maybe his attitude gets them going and in three – four weeks, we see a completely different team. But I for one, am willing to wait it out and support them until it’s over. I may be a fool, but I’m also a fan.

The Yankees don’t have ANY position players in minors even close to being ready to help them. Shelley Duncan is another Andy Phillips and nothing more. If possible, I would do what it takes to sign BOTH Hunter and Ichiro in the off-season.

Randy, ABSOLUTELY, I would bail on this season.

You watch enough baseball, you can tell teams that are grinders, fighters but, are just having a bad run of luck. Those are the teams you help during the season.

A team of dogs which, sadly, this team is, you NEVER help. You just play it out and use the season to “test” some of the younger guys in the organization and see if they can be helpful in the future.

I watch a lot of minor league Yankee baseball. Its how I spend a lot of my summers. They are LOADED up and down the organization with pitching prospects in various stages of development. That gives them options.

IMO, if they can clear the decks of a few bad contracts, they can go “all in” for guys like Hunter and Ichiro because they will have the pitching to back up those moves. Its kind of the reverse of what’s its been in the organization in recent years.

As far as positional players, Tabata is going to be a player. But, he is only 18 and not even close to being ready physically.

Alberto Gonzalez (AAA) can be a good utility player at the major league level. The rest of the guys at AA and AAA, position players-wise? Not that good.

Their young catcher in Tampa, Francisco Cervelli? Stud. I am VERY impressed with him. I could see that kid in the majors in two years. He can hit, throw and is excellent behind the plate. He just turned 21. He could be the catcher of the future.

The rest of the position players, aside from Tabata and Cervelli? Mitch Hilligoss and Austin Jackson show some promise in Charleston. Other than that, its light on that front.

My point in all of this is, they have the young pitching to be bold in terms of getting Hunter and Ichiro. In fact, upgrading the defense will do nothing but help the pitching staff.

They just need to clear the decks of some very bad contracts and they could do that at the deadline this year if they swallow their pride and realize this season is a lost cause.