No word yet on the Rocket
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- May
- 25
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The Yankees should tell us today where and when Roger Clemens pitches next. It will be at least partially based on the bullpen session he threw this morning.
It will either be SWB on Monday or in Toronto on Tuesday. As soon as I hear something, I will pass it along.
In terms of a few other rumors:
There is no interest in the Todd Helton. The last thing the Yankees need another aging player with a huge contract.
If Brett Myers’ shoulder injury is significant, expect the Kyle Farnsworth-to-Philly talk to heat up and perhaps get done. The Phillies need a closer and the Yankees need to be rid of Farnsworth, who is unreliable. Scott Proctor/Brian Bruney would be fine in the 8th inning and Luis Vizcaino has actually thrown the ball with some results lately.
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on Friday, May 25th, 2007 at 11:54 am by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
The Rocket is listed on the Scranton-Wilkes Barre roster, if that is any indication that he might be getting another minor league start..
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.....mp;cid=531
Joe, from what I read, they had to move Clemens to the AAA roster because Trenton (AA) needed that roster spot. So while he is on the SWB roster, it’s more to make room for a AA player than it is a Clemens/Yankees decision. Altho I am all for giving him another minor league start. He needs to get the rust out.
I’m probably going to start a small storm here, but if the trade talk for Farns does heat up – what does Phillie have that we need?? I certainly don’t want what we gave them for Abreu back (New York sent shortstop C.J. Henry, left-hander Matt Smith, catcher Jesus Sanchez and right-hander Carlos Monasterios).
Pete – any ideas/news on what Cash could get for a Farnsworth? and what we would have to give up for a decent trade package?
I am all for sending krazy kyle to philly, but i want nothing to do with jon lieber. I enjoy watching the kids pitch, and i do not feel jon lieber is an improvemeent over hughes and clippard. The upside of the kids is much greater than a retread like lieber.
Would Philly give us a 12 pack of Meister Brau for Farnsworth? If so, PULL THAT TRIGGER!
You know what would help the Yanks right now? Facial hair. I bet Giambi heals up and hits 40 taters with a goatee, Damon plays a flawless CF and steals 60+ with the Jesus beard, A-rod finishes with 80+ homers with a cool soul patch, and have Matsui grow some mutton-chops or something. Let Phelps and the rest of the bench grow some Fu Manchu’s, which would help them contribute off the bench.
Oh….Jeter must remain clean-shaven – he is a-ok as is, and we wouldn’t want him in Jessica Biel’s doghouse.
Would you trade Farnsworth straight up for Rod Barajas? Looking at the Phils roster, I’m not sure who the Yankees would want. Backup catcher and 6-7th inning RPs are the most important spots to upgrade.
Farnsworth for Chris Coste would be good too. Coste has been playing at first base in Howard’s absence. Howard comes off the DL tonight, and Coste can also catch. He’s a career .320 hitter (!) Any desire to package Farnsworth and Phelps for Coste and prospects?
yeah, pass on lieber.
don’t know what Philly could offer, but it won’t be much. Farnsworth is overpaid and not that good.
Here’s an sobering thought:
After next weekend’s series at Fenway, the Yankees and Red Sox play just two more series this year. However, the Yankees still have 16 games against Toronto, 15 against Baltimore, 13 against Tampa Bay, and 10 against Kansas City, with Pittsburgh, Arizona, Colorado and San Francisco as inter-league opponents.
That represents 66 of the Yankees’ remaining 117 games, or 56.4 percent of their schedule.
If you figure the Red Sox to win 95 games, they’d have to go just 64-52 the rest of the way, a .551 winning percentage. For the Yankees to match 95 wins, they must go 74-43, a .632 winning percentage.
If you further concede that the Tigers and Angels will win their divisions, the Yankees’ wild-card scenario improves, since the Indians, White Sox, Twins, Athletics and Mariners would represent their primary competition.
Hmmm:
Regardless of his record and attitude, guys who can throw 100 mph and have a mean streak don’t grow on trees and thus have excellent intrinsic value. I’m sure the Yankees would consider paying part of his salary just to be rid of him.
Did you see the Phils-Marlins donnybrook last night? Krazy Kyle could have helped them out with a well-timed bodyslam or two. And no one hits a man with glasses!
“Would you trade Farnsworth straight up for Rod Barajas?”
yes.
“Any desire to package Farnsworth and Phelps for Coste and prospects?”
the Yankees can’t trade Phelps.
Expect to get minor leaguers for Farnsi.
“the Yankees can’t trade Phelps.”
Porque no? I can’t imagine he has a no-trade clause.
Sunny: That’s a lot of games against some truly putrid opposition. The Yanks need to beat up on the bad teams this summer…none of this losing to the Devil Rays and Royals crap.
Phelps was rule 5 draft, so he can’t be traded.
because Phelps is a rule 5 pick… if the Yankees move him anywhere, it has to be back to the Orioles at half the price at which they paid to pick him.
“If Brett Myers’ shoulder injury is significant, expect the Kyle Farnsworth-to-Philly talk to heat up and perhaps get done.”
Somebody make sure Myers doesn’t make it back!
Another Matt:
I understand your point on Farnsworth completely, but if he didn’t do anything the other night when Jeter got hit and we had a big lead, he’s never going to.
He’s a disappointment, but I wouldn’t just give him away either.
I agree. They need to to go 66-0 against these teams, but it can’t be less than 56-10 against them.
Wow, Sunny, that’s an .848 clip. Is that even possible? The Yanks would have to go on a serious hot streak.
“they must go 74-43, a .632 winning percentage”
Yankees can totally do that, especially with the lighter schedule over the summer.
It’s going to be a rollercoaster of a season and remember there is nothing wrong with the wild card.
Against teams like Jays, TB, O’s, KC, and others, it’s entirely feasible, but realistically, they have to better than the .632 clip for the entire rest of the season against everyone. Law of averages states that they can’t do the .632 *consistently* against teams like Cleveland, White and Red Sox, et al. So they have to do better against the weaker teams IMO.
How about a .750 clip and go 50-16 against the weaker teams?
Trading Farnsworth is addition by subtraction.
For the 6 million plus they are paying him, you can find a kid in the minors who could pitch to a 5+ ERA and give you a helluva lot less headaches for a helluva lot less money.
Interesting chatter during the Marlins-Phillies game last night.
Last night was only the second time Chris Coste was tried at first base. Manual loves the guy for his toughness and and intensity (something that’s missing with many of the current players on the Yankees roster).
However, the announcers were saying Coste is a numbers victim right now. Ryan Howard will be back to play first and they seem to like Barajas and the other backup catcher (I believe his name is Diaz) as a better long term option.
There was some talk that Coste could end up back in the minors and the commentators were saying how unfair that would be to him.
Personally, I’d do a Farnsworth for Coste and a minor league pitcher deal tomorrow, if that’s possible.
(I subscribe to the Gene Michael School of GM. Always get a pitcher back in a deal because, “you never know”, as Stick would say).
You clear Farnsworth’s money off the books, which is huge, IMO. You add a real backup catcher to the roster. A guy who could hold down the spot for a few years until a kid like Francisco Cervelli develops, and you open up a roster spot for Chris Britton.
You could have Proctor work the 8th inning, with Bruney as another guy you can use in that role. You have Vizcaino (until they can get rid of him) and Villone working the 7th inning along with an occasional Mike Myers appearance. You have Britton as a 6th inning guy. IMO, that’s a better all around bullpen for the Yankees than the way its currently constructed. Good mix of youth and experience.
Seems to me, that works for everybody.
You can’t ask for the moon for somebody like Farnsworth because he isn’t any good. A backup catcher, Single A pitcher, and his money off the books would work out quite nicely, IMO.
God, I hope Myers’ is out for the season. And I have nothing against Myers. I just hate Farnsworth.
You don’t keep guys on the roster under the, “its good in case there is a brawl” label.
This isn’t hockey.
Its real simple. One run lead, 8th inning, a must win game to get into the playoffs……..You trust Kyle Farnsworth to get 3 outs? I don’t.
He’s got to go. ASAP, if possible. There is enough dead weight on this team and its gotten to the point where Torre is playing shorthanded every night.
If the Yankees are going to win 70% of their games which, believe it or not, is what its going to take from here on out to even have a shot at the playoffs, you can’t keep guys who can’t help you win on the roster.
Cairo, Farnsworth, Nieves, Vizcaino, Myers, at some point, you have to move these guys out and add better parts to the mix.
If not, given the age and health of many of the guys on this team, they will fade down the stretch and not be able to win enough games to get into the playoffs.
Re: Clemens, they can’t rush him. At some point, the guys on the current roster have to do their part.
They played like crap for the two weeks after his announcement. Rushing him back is not fair to him and won’t help the team.
He’s not ready yet. Any objective observer could see that the other night. He should get two more starts in the minors, then open the series in Chicago.
The guy is almost 45. You can’t rush him.
IMO, he shouldn’t be pitching against Toronto and/or Boston next week.
You don’t, “get work” in the majors. You pitch to win those games.
Let him get another 150-200 pitches under his belt at AAA, then start him in the Chicago. Its the right way to go.
If this team isn’t good enough to play better baseball over the next 9 games to play themselves back into this thing, then there is nothing Roger Clemens can do about it. That’s on the team, not Clemens.
I would have no problem trading farnsworthless as long as the yanks get something worthwhile out of it. The yanks would be giving the phillies a closer with a fantastic history in the NL. I understand he has health problems and is completely unreliable this yr but they will be using him as a closer. We should be able to get some good minor league talent back for him. – someone who def has the potential to make the major league ball club. This should not just be dropping a contract and taking the money off the books. WE SHOULD GET SOMETHING BACK!
I think Scott has earned everyones trust now, he’s been doing it for over a year and I think he will be fine in the 8th inning.
Now what can we get for Krazy Kyle? Do they have any catching prospects? I am so sick of watching a guy who throws 100 mph get smacked around! I don’t want Lieber back.
The guy stinks. He can’t pitch back to back days, he is God Awful in most of his appearances and we are looking for something big in return for him? Not happening.
Its like Chuck Lemarr, the former Devil Rays GM. He would ask for a teams best minor league talent for his marginal players and then was shocked when GM’s stopped calling him to make deals.
At some point, you cut your losses. If they can get a legitimate backup catcher (which Coste is) and a minor league arm, and aren’t on the hook any longer for Farnsworth’s salary, that deal should be done ASAP.
You aren’t going to get any more than that for him. Its sure as hell better than keeping him on the roster which, at this point, is a liability for this team.
Counting last season, in his last 30 appearances, he has gotten the side out in order, 3 times. You want him to stay on this team given those awful numbers? Not me.
The sooner Cash can make a deal for him, the better.
June schedule
Boston, White Sox, Pirates, Arizona, Mets, Rockies, Giants, Orioles, A’s
July
Twins, Angels, Tampa Bay, Toronto, Tamba Bay, Royals, Blatimore
August
White Sox, Royals, Toronto, Indians, Orioles, Tigers, Angels, Tigers, Red Sox
September
Tampa Bay, Mariners, Royals, Toronto, Red Sox, Orioles, Toronto, Tampa Bay, Orioles
Yanks can do it with a schedule like this. They will lose against some, but win against most.
good riddens to farnsworth and i’m not too fond of viscaino either .
i would be much happier seeing clemens pitch vs. the pirates than rush him up vs. the b.j.’s or red sox .
What you get for trading Farnsworth is peace of mind. No more blown leads when he comes in. No more sitting and getting scared that Torre will call in Farnsworth in the 8th.
That in and of itself is worth sending him away.
SJ- how bad could he stink if the phillies are looking at him to fill the closer position? Im not saying we should get something big but we shouldnt get someone who wont make the major league club. Its a waste – we might as well keep him and see if he gets any better. Who cares about taking 6 mil off the books? Trades are supposed to make the team stronger – not take money off the books. Im so sick of hearing this addition by subtraction crap. I say dont trade farnsowrth unless we get a part that will help us now or we are 100 percent sure will help us in the future.
I agree with SJ44, we’re not dealing from a position of strength. Everyone and their mother’s know about Farnsworth. You get what you can for him and Coste and pitcher is a great deal. C Ya Farnsworth.
a backup catcher and major league arm in the high minors like double or triple A is fine with me. Nieves is the worst backup catcher this team has ever had and probably one of our weakest links right now.
sorry sj i didnt read your entire post before commenting on it – i actually agree with everything you said except that the phillies think he stinks and wont be any better on their team. If they are looking to him to fill a closer spot they obviously dont think he wont get better on their team. A pitcher who actually makes the major league club as oppposed to some minor league scrub is a must in this deal. I like the backup catcher/first baseman player in the deal – we need that. Phelps is hardly a catcher.
It’s no secret that Farnsworth is the weak link in the pen, allows far too many baserunners to inspire any confidence, and makes far too much money. So what could we get for him? Probably nothing of value. The players who we want to trade the most are precisely the ones who bring us the least in return.
I like SJ44’s trade scenario but I doubt it would happen – the market for backup catchers is probably hotter than the market for underperforming and overpaid right-handed relievers. For any less than a bona fide backup catcher and a pitcher, I’d say we have to keep Farnsworth. He was dominant in 2005 and serviceable in 2006. It’s reasonable to expect he can be serviceable again this season and next. Torre just needs to use him properly – in the 6th, not the 8th.
That said, if we can get anything of value for Farnsworth, trade him in a heartbeat and replace him with Britton. That’s a no-brainer.
Dumping the Bench
How about we clean some house and ask waivers on Cairo, Nieves, and Phelps, replacing them with Basak, Santos, and Phillips (and maybe someone we can get for Farnsworth). Something has to give on that bench. Maybe it’s also time to demote Melky for a while and use Kevin Thompson…
Dave, Farnsi will do better as a closer on the Phillies. Some pitchers just can’t pitch on the Yankees.
BUT, we also won’t get anything great and won’t ask for anything great for Farnsi.
His salary off the books opens up money for other trades down the line. As I said earlier, addition by subtraction is a real thing. Farnsi won’t lose us games anymore. That is a huge benefit and worth the trade alone.
Opens up a spot in the bullpen for Britton.
You can’t trade crap and expect to get gold in return. phillies aren’t looking to dump payroll this year.
I’m gonna say, I am happy that 90% of the people commenting have no say whatsoever in trades, upgrades, demotions, or anything Yankee related.
Farnsworth for Pujols!
Kyle and Cano for Utley! lol
I take that back…
Farnsworth and Nieves for Pujols, Santana, Mauer, Ichiro and Hunter.
What happened to Gordon? Did his arm fall off completely?
But I’m one of the 10%.
Right Marius? Right?
Marius?
Hello?
According to the Philadelphia Inquirer, Phillies righthander Tom Gordon, who is on the disabled list with inflammation in his right shoulder, began a conditioning program Monday in Clearwater, Fla. The reliever will be in Clearwater through the week and will be evaluated by Phillies team physician Michael Ciccotti on Monday.
(Updated 05/22/2007).
“How about we clean some house and ask waivers on Cairo, Nieves, and Phelps, replacing them with Basak, Santos, and Phillips”
i don’t get the Josh Phelps hate. he’s been OK. a 105 OPS+ from a non-starter is about as good as you can expect.
“Maybe it’s also time to demote Melky for a while and use Kevin Thompson…”
after a putrid april, melky’s hit .250/.340/.477 in May. he is also one of the best OFers in MLB according to ZR.
i’d give him some more time.
Michael Kay sitting in for Dan Patrick right now. Is that a first?
lol Sunny, how about we make you head of the Getting worth for suck players department!!
I think you would be great for that role. We just need to get you into a remedial addition by subtraction program.
They need to just send Britton up. The guy is cruising in Scranton, without a sweat.
That or a psychiatrist appointment.
farnsworth needs to go through an up period before he’s tradeable. he needs to be rehabilitated first. the temptation would be then to keep him, but that’s where sticking to the plan comes in. the first chance that someone else thinks he’s good, trade him for what you can get.
where to work him in to get his stats looking better is the problem. i’d give him all the garbage innings as a start. try to get the era back down to high 3’s or low 4’s.
then cashman could move him.
Boss says Torre is safe and Cash is not…
Despite constant speculation about manager Joe Torre’s job, New York Yankees owner George Steinbrenner says someone else also needs to deliver as the team looks to reverse its floundering start: general manager Brian Cashman.
“He’s on a big hook,” a spirited Steinbrenner told The Associated Press in a rare interview from this Tampa office. “He wanted sole authority. He got it. Now he’s got to deliver.”
Farnsworth for Pujols??? Sunny, did you smoke your breakfast? Just a little good natured harassing from the Red Sox fan!
Yankees’ July Schedule-
Twins (.478), Angels (.583), Devil Rays (.413), Blue Jays (.457), Devil Rays (.413), Royals (.396), Orioles (.447)
Red Sox’ July Schedule-
Rangers (.383), Devil Rays (.413), Tigers (.613), Blue Jays (.457), Royals (.396), White Sox (.535), Indians (.622), Devil Rays (.413)
Well, assuming all the other teams stay on roughly the same track, it looks like the Yank’s will have one or (maybe) two tough series’ (Twins and Angels), and the Sox will have at least three (Tigers, White Sox, and Indians), two of which will be considerably tougher than the Yanks’ schedule.
With some luck, and if the Yankees can get their act together, they could move up quite a bit that month, especially if they can get on a hot streak. Of course, that’s a month away, but at least it looks conceivable from here.
The Yankees do not need to win 70% of their remaining games. That would equate to what, like 82 wins, which would bring them to over 100 wins for the year.
what they do need to do is 2 out of 3, to bring them right around 95 wins… seems like going on previous years, 93-94 wins will get the wild card.
Actually, Ray, it probably would have made my breakfast taste better. lol.
TurnTwo – If you’re referring to my earlier post, I was saying that the Yankees need to (should be theoretically easier) win at least 70% of their games against bad teams (Jays, O’s, Rays, KC, etc) – as well as their interleague games (Pitt, Colorado, Ariz, and SF) and then go on a .630 clip for the rest.
Farnsworth for wes Helms
Found this on MLBTradeRumors.com:
Buster thinks the Sox could trade Wily Mo Pena to the Padres for Linebrink.
I *meant* to say:
Found this on “MLBTradeRumors.com”:http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/05/wily_mo_pena_an.html
Buster thinks the Sox could trade Wily Mo Pena to the Padres for Linebrink.
my comment on Gordon was kind of sarcastic in a way.
do you really think they would be willing to part with anyone significant for a closer who would fill in until Gordon’s return? Or do you think Philly has lost any confidence they had in Gordon returning and staying healthy/effective? He wasn’t great so far this year, though that could be due to his injury.
Gordon has been somewhat injury plagued over the last two seasons (hitting the DL in ‘06 as well) so I’m pretty sure Philly won’t be counting on Gordon as their full time closer for the long haul. Plus he’s 40 yrs old.
“Buster thinks the Sox could trade Wily Mo Pena to the Padres for Linebrink.”
i hope they go for it.
they’d be placing a lot of faith in the health of JD Drew.
Why are you so driven to see Farnsworth go, Pete?
For what? A backup catcher? Prospects? I dont get it. You can never have enough power arms in a pen.
Why would the Padres trade their premiere set up guy for a 4th OF who has never proven he can hit big league pitching?
I would’t move Farnsworth just to dump salary. As up and down as he’s been, he’s had his moments (specifically against Ortiz last year) and giving away an arm like his for a back-up catcher would be foolish, especially if San Diego can get a legit player like Wily Mo for Linebrink.
Also, one injury to Proctor, Bruney or (God forbid) Mo and our bullpen surplus is gone quick.
I’d offer Philly Vizcaiano for Coste or Barajas and jump for joy if they said yes.
The fact that folks can come up with a handful of “moments” to justify keeping Farnsworth shows how ineffective he has been as a Yankee.
Good relief pitchers don’t have “moments”. They are effective in a boring type of way because of the steadiness of their success. That’s something Farnsworth has NEVER been in his time in NY.
He isn’t a “power arm” per se. Just because he throws the ball hard, doesn’t make him a “power arm”.
He walks too many people, is VERY hittable and, with an ERA over 5 as a Yankee, is not the type of guy you can count on to give you solid 8th inning work.
Power arms get consistent outs. Farnsworth does not.
Folks act as if he is some “missing link” to success in NY. He has been here long enough, and we have seen enough, to see just how ineffective he can be.
This team doesn’t have another two months for him to “find himself”. They are in too big a hole as it is to wait on him any longer.
As I proposed earlier, how many here HONESTLY would want or trust Kyle Farnsworth on the mound with a one run lead in the 8th inning of a game that decides whether or not the Yankees make the playoffs?
I don’t think members of the Farnsworth Family would wish that situation upon him, let alone anybody else.
He is just another example of Cashman getting seduced by a NL arm, only to have the guy spit the bit in NY.
He’s not exactly the first member of that “special” club we have seen in NY the past 5 years.
If they can get Coste and an arm for him, that’s the deal the Yankees have to make. In fact, its a no brainer.
Bruney, Proctor, Vizcaino (until they find a home for him) and Britton. This is one situation where the Yankees actually have adequate depth to deal Farnsworth and not miss a beat.
SJ44- I am with you (right down to the Stick Michael philosphy- I stated so a few days ago in a different thread when I saw Myers get hurt).
Do Farnsworth for Coste+ML Pitcher. Then send down Nieves for Henn. This team would be better tomorrow.
Guys,
You’d rather Vizcaino over Farns. in a tight spot? Not me. Less Farns = more Viz. No thanks.
If we can get something significant for Farns I’m down with it, but a back-up catcher and another minor leaguer who’ll never pitch here doesn’t help us climb back in.
I disagree. I think getting rid of Farnsworth free ups money and that give them more options.
For example, let’s say you move Farnsworth and you get back Coste and a ML pitcher.
Texas puts Texiera on the market. The Rangers need pitching badly. They also need a mix of pitching. Guys who are major league ready (or close to it) from the minors and, perhaps a pitcher already on the roster.
You can move Vizcaino (or Chris Britton) in that deal (the Rangers need bullpen help) and add one or two of the many good prospects the Yankees have at the AAA and AA levels.
Perhaps Vizcaino or Britton, Clippard (if Hughes is back and healthy) and (maybe) one guy from AA or AAA among, Ross Ohlendorf, Steven Jackson, Jeff Marquez, Brett Smith and Alan Horne.
You have to think about doing that deal IF (and I am just speculating here) is on the table.
Imagine moving out Farnsworth and Vizcaino, along with 2-3 other pitchers, and end up with Coste and Texiera? It definitely upgrades the team and they still have enough depth in the system to absorb the losses from that trade.
One of the benefits of having a lot of quality pitching depth in the minors is to pursue that excellent, young everyday player. Tex fits that bill, IMO.
At least they will have options. That’s a good thing.
“I’d offer Philly Vizcaino for Coste or Barajas and jump for joy if they said yes.”
Fransworth may have more value later in the year (July 31st). It’s time for Vizcaino to go.
The one player the Yankees should target in a trade is Texiera, if he’s made available. You could trade 2 pitchers from among Farnsworth, Clippard, DeSalvo, Karstens, etc, Melky, maybe another low level prospect. Texiera will also balance the lineup being a switch hitter. Trading players on the 40 man roster will give some flexibility to add maybe a Andy Phillips as an infielder, Shelly Duncan as of/1b, Kevin Thompson as 4th outfielder.
Just my opinion.
id throw in farnsworth, vizcaino and desalvo all together in any trade