Game 48: Angels at Yankees
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on May 27, 2007 
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Here is the lineup:
YANKEES
Cabrera CF
Jeter SS
Matsui LF
Rodriguez 3B
Giambi DH
Cano 2B
Abreu RF
Mientkiewicz 1B
Nieves C
Mussina RHP
Pregame chatter: Wow, Game 48. The season is 30 percent over already. … The Angels are pitching RHP John Lackey (7-3, 2.38). … Mussina has been dreadful in his last two starts (12 innings, 18 hits, 12 earned runs) and clearly needs some kind of redemption today. This is the final game of the “Dirty Dozen” against the White Sox, Mets, Red Sox and Angels. The Yankees are 4-7.
Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t think anybody is getting fired, if only because there is nobody to replace them. What is the point of making Don Mattingly the manager now and handing him this mess?
In terms of Brian Cashman, his main assistant is Jean Afterman, who handles contracts and relations in Asia. The only other member of the baseball operations staff with a bio in the media guide is Mark Newman, who runs the minor league operations.
There is nobody within the team’s structure who is remotely qualified to be the GM outside of Gene Michael, who turns 69 on Saturday.
I think Torre stays as manager, retires at the end of the season and is replaced by Don Mattingly. It’s harder to say what happens with Cashman. He may not want to stay in a situation where he has limited power.
It’s quite a mess, obviously.
But how much can you blame the manager and GM? Of the 25 players on the roster right now, how many would you say have performed at or above expectations? Rodriguez, Jeter, Posada, Pettitte, Bruney, maybe Proctor and Matsui to some degree.
Beyond that, every other player has underperformed. In several cases, dramatically so. Damon, Abreu, Cano, Cabrera, Mussina, Rivera, Wang, Farnsworth, Vizcaino, etc.
It’s hard to hold Cashman or Torre responsible for that.
Anyway, enjoy the game. Sorry for the lack of posts this weekend but I am not covering the Angels series with the long road trip coming up.
Update 2:56 p.m.: Interesting point made by Suzyn Waldman on WCBS a few innings ago. Torre took the lineup card out to home plate today and did not shake hands with Jeff Nelson. Obviously Torre was making a point about the call Nelson blew on Saturday.
Some fans seem to think that the Yankees would benefit if Torre gets thrown out of a game, which is just silly. Veteran players don’t get excited over such things. But Torre made his point today in a subtle fashion, which is what he does.
Update 2:56 p.m.: Since he came off the DL, here is Musssina’s pitch-count progression: 64, 85, 86, 99. He was at 95 today. Mussina rarely throws more than 100.
His innings progression: 5, 6, 5.1, 6.2 and 6.1 today. Was Torre wrong to hook him? Hard to say. It’s close. I would have let him face one more batter. That said, Scott Proctor can’t pitch like that.
Update 4:20 p.m.: Nice at-bat by Jeter to finish the game, especially against a guy like Francisco Rodriguez. You can’t say they quit.
I don’t know what he answer is. I don’t believe firing Torre is going to make Abreu, Cano and other underachievers play better. Don Mattingly is not a rah-rah guy. He is less demonstrative that Torre.
And say what you will about the bullpen but Proctor had not pitched since Friday and had not allowed a run in 10 consecutive appearances. He was rested and has been dominant lately. Not good, dominant. He had allowed six hits and two walks in his last 10.2 innings while striking out nine. How was Torre supposed to know he would blow up?
I think its unfair to lump Wang in with the rest of those underperformers. Taking in consideration of him missing the last two weeks of spring training and starting the season on the DL, I think he’s done well and yesterday’s game is further proof of him being an anchor for this staff. He could’ve easily folded after the first inning, but instead clamped down and kept his team in the game for seven more innings.
Pete, i agree, you really cant blame this team’s performance on the GM or Manager. sure you can point to horrible deals made by cashman, such as acquiring igawa.. but even though igawa sucked he was 2-1.. hes not the reason we’re struggling. when you got guys who you mentioned before performing at the levels they are, how can you help it? you cant.. this team just may not have the heart, as tino alluded to.
I surely miss the days of oniell and martinez when watercoolers felt the brunt of slumps and not the hearts of the fans.
You can’t fault them for players not performing up their ability, I agree. But Torre has made some questionable in-game decisions and Cashman hasn’t been able to assemble a good pitching rotation. For that they should be held accountable for.
To salvage the season if its not too late is for Cashman to be really smart at the trade deadline and keep making this team younger and more athletic. They need to be sellers, ie, Vizcaino, Farnsworth, Abreu, Myers, Phelps, and some of the AAA dead weight, ie, E. Duncan, Olendorf, Jackson, Bean, etc. They are starting to develop a foundation in the minors but it has to continue. I admire what the Angels have done, all of their pitchers this weekend are young, their team is young, athletic with Vlad being the oldest. Future rotation next season or even later this season could be Hughes, Wang, Chamberlain, Pettitte and the Rocket with Kennedy and Clippard in the fold. They need young athletic OF’ers and a 1B and backup C, and some depth on the bench. It probably won’t be this season it seems but next year could be special if Cashman is smart.
chamberlain and kennedy are WAY off
I think Cashman has the right idea of building up our farm system. We need youth because this team has become stale. If Big Stein fires Cash because of this season, I really believe it would be a HUGE mistake. Give Cash some time to transform this roster from an old, unathletic team to a younger, athletic bunch. He needs at least a couple more years to do that.
Wang has unperformed? A near perfect game and several quality starts coming off an injury is underperforming now, huh? Okaaaaayyyyyy…… Yeah, you know what you’re talking about, Pete.
Cashman s/b faulted for thinking that Pavano and Igawa could be part of a major league rotation.
At least Ted Lilly was available.
Wang was second in the Cy Young voting last season and won 19 games. He has had seven starts this season, four of them were quality starts. Three were not. He has allowed a lot of hits.
Sorry, but that’s not what that they expected. Obviously I have a lot of respect for Wang and I think he will finish the season very well. But he has not yet been what they hoped.
Ye, It’s a tough call to make… You can say this guy needs to go, but like Pete said their really isn’t a great replacement.. Girardi played with a lot of these guys so how would that work? Mattingly to me isn’t qualified yet, right? Bowa wouldn’t fit well with this team. Pena to me would be the best choice, but does he have a solid relationship with George and the men from Tampa to solidify him a spot like Manager?
Also, Cashman has to be on the hook. Then again who could replace him now? Gene Michael has to be the guy, but he is up in age and who knows if he wants the job. Honestly Cash didnt do really anything to help this team this season.. He could have gotten Major League players for Sheffield and we all know that. Yes, Keven Whelen and Anthony Claggett are looking very solid in A ball and AA, but don’t tell me Omar Infante or a Starter like Nate Robertson wasn’t available because they were if another player was added or more money was given. Also, the Randy Johnson deal is looking really horrible right about NOW… Ohlendorf cant get his back healthy, Vizcaino has been nothing like he should be and Jackson has been decent at best. Mark Derosa would look really good at 1B for the Yanks right now or Mark Loretta, but apparently Doug M. was the logical choice?
You can point fingers, but honestly this team isn’t playing the way they should be. It’s a tough call to say that too because they’ve had so many rookies starting games. I do think if the Yankees lose today there is a chance Cashman is fired because he wanted sole control and he got it now the blame has to be on him.
Cashman also should not have Chris Britton dominating AAA… He should be up and they should also take a look at Edwar Ramirez who apparently has a great change…
I think Wang performs himself,it is the Yankees or the media who have too much expectation from him.Honestly I think he is qualified as something between a No.2 and No.3.I am saying that as a big fan of him….I know he can be good,but maybe he need more time to develope.Looking at the record he set last year,when he was really good-a zero earned run game, it was against some thing like Devil Rays or Blue Jays which were not the top team in the year, when he faced the top lineup like Red Sox or White Sox,he was beaten up a little sometimes which means he still needs some time and experience to adjust himself while facing a top lineup team in baseball.Three runs for 8 innings is acceptable for me as a fan, but maybe not enough for a No.1 starter or for Yankees of this year.
How can the Manager and GM not be repsonsible for this mess?
Cashman could have done better with the bench so that when reuglars were hurt or in slump, they could have come handy. Joe is even more responsible as he blew up at least six games with his incompetent handling of the pitching staff.
Bottom line, this team is inefficient and not constructed to be much more than a .500 team. There are too many “I” players who are worried about contracts and personal numbers than the over team.
I thought for sure at the beginning of the season this team would be a WS contender, but now,I will be happy if this team can finish second in the East. Right now, this will not happen. There is no way this team makes the playoffs or the Wild Card.
I would propose that this rebuilding effort take on full steam and start dumping where possible. The farm system can be restocked and the “up and comers” can get some playing time.
For those who will say the contracts are not movable, what is the difference if the Yankees pay part of a contract for these players to half ass perform for another team or do the same or worse for this team.
PS. Peter Abraham, you are starting to sound a lot like Johnny Sacamono…Pointing out all the obvious negatives is not always truthful. And YES, Torre and Cashman can be faulted just like your Editor is ultimately responsible for your performance. That is business.
“For those who will say the contracts are not movable, what is the difference if the Yankees pay part of a contract for these players to half ass perform for another team or do the same or worse for this team.”
Yes contracts can be moved if yanks eat most of it. That is not the issue. All these people, we want moved have no trade clauses. Without thier consent you can not trade them. Good teams will not want them as they are not good. Even if bad teams are willing to trade for them, the players will not waive thier no trade clauses. It is that simple…..
Wow, Jeter and A-Rod are the only people on base again. Shocking that we didn’t get a 2 out RBI hit. Simply shocking!! ….
Giambi is so bad now.
I can’t figure Giambi out. Prior to this year he almost always took the first pitch. This year he is swinging at first pitches in his first AB. First pitch hitters are sub .200 hitters. With RISP he needs to get a pitch he can drive.
Moose spotted the fastball well in the first. He’s getting ahead in the count which makes him so much more effective.
from lackey’s point of view,why should he pitch to arod with two outs with a slumping giambi hitting behind him?
I posted this too late on a previous thread.
Yanks are behind in the wild card by 7.5 games. There are three teams they have to contend with – Detroit (.604 winning percentage), Chicago (.545 winning percentage) and Minnesota (.479 winnig percentage). I am discounting Seattle, Oakland and Toronto, but could be proven wrong!
There are still 115 games to be palyed by Yanks. So, far they have not gone on a roll. The primary reasons are injuries to the starting pitches and many good offensive players going into slump, inluding A-Rod (I am a strong supporter of A-Rod and shame on those who boo him!. Now A-Rod and Cano are hitting. Damon is hitting too. The two who need to get out of their slump are Abrue and Giambi. Abrue will come out of it. He is still young (relatively!) and showing signs of coming out of slump.
However, I am not so sure about Giambi. He is hurt, there is so much swirling around him and I boubt he will recover from all of it while in New York. He should be traded for some usefull pieces – backup catcher and/or a strong bench player- even if Yanks have to pay most of his salary. Then move Matsui to DH – he is atrocious in LF. Cabrera should be in Left. Damon should go on DL, recover fully and come and play CF. Abrue is OK in Right. In fact this will be a very good outfield. If Damon does not recover from the injuries then alternatives should be found for CF.
I do not ocnsider 1B a real issue. Sure, good to have some one like Texiera. Minky and Phelps are doing OK. We do not need an all-star at every position. Only thing I hop is Torre distributes the time between them more evenly. Still, I do not consider this major issue.
Vizcaino should be let go as he is under contract only for this year and they have to eat probably a couple of million, not like 40+ mil in the case of Giambi. Britton should be brought up. I am wondering why Jorre keeps giving ball to Vizacaino. The only ligical explanation I can give is that Cashman and Torre are hoping he would pitch decently in a couple of games, that would prove he is not hurt and then trade him for backup catching or bench player or a low level prospect. I will still keep Kyle. He is down right now, but some point in the futuure he will play a useful role.
Now, all this does not mean a thing, if Joe Torre continues to be this dumb ingame manager. He needs to stop managing every game as a WS 7th game and unerstand we can not win them all and stop buriing the bull pen. Also, he needs to show some trust in these kids. This is regular season for god sake and there are 115 games yet to be played.
As I said numerous other times, Yanks will make it to the playoffs. If they play up to thier potential, even with thier weaknesses, they will be fighting Boston and all other also rans in the AL East. Detroit, Chicago and Minnesota will be beating up on each other.
Once they make it as a wild card, who knows what will happen? Didn’t wild card teams have better success than the divison winners in the last few years? May be we will kepp that trend alive!!!!!!
Wow…Yankees are meeting with Commish’s office regarding the calls that have not gone in their favor this year. What does this do? Are they expecting the umps to have sympathy? They have a cathartic interest in the Yankees much like everyone else in baseball…and oddly enough some Yankee fans as well.
Too much whining about calls. They have played like crap for this entire season. That’s why they aren’t going anywhere.
Its not the umpires and the Yankees whining about this stuff just feeds into the fan paranoia and makes enemies of the umpires. How can that help?
You want to win? Play better. If they can’t play better, even getting all the calls aren’t going to help unless the umpires are now going to bat 4 times a game for each of the 6 Yankee regulars who have hit under .200 for the past 6 weeks.
The Yankees are doing what bad teams do. Whine about calls, not hit, not play hard, not pitch, bullpen can’t get outs, etc.
Only thing more sickening that watching this team lose 4-5 games a week is listening to them whine about umpire calls. Its embarrassing.
Same with Redsox, Nesn announcers whine about the bad call.
Moose throwing a new pitch, a soft splitter diving down in the zone at around 81 MPH. You can never count intelligent veteran pitchers out. Tom Glavine looked done a few years ago before he started throwing his change inside to hitters. Maybe Moose can similarly reinvent himself.
How about Nieve’s throwing dude out at second? Nice to see someone who can actually throw someone out when Posada gets the day off. HA! And he just got an RBI single. Good job man.
Quote from Redsox Fan named SouthernBoSox – a disciple of lucifer.
“They never get calls.
Never ever”
NIEVES FOR THE MVP OF THE WORLD!
I’ll tell you what too. Being that Abreu is struggling so much at the plate he has to do stuff like that. He gets hit by the pitch and then steals second. So important. If he had been on first when Nieves hit his single it would have been first and second MAYBE first and third. Instead its a run and we take the lead. Thats baseball.
Gary that was not funny and uncalled for.
I disagree that Wang has underperformed.
Of course he has struggled a little when he first came back (vs. Devil Rays and Red Sox)…In his loss yesterday, he only had trouble in the first inning but then shut down the Angels for the rest of the game. He turned a bad start into a quality 8-inning start that the bullpen needed. The run support just wasn’t there for his games.
The batting has simply been awful this year and I don’t know why, even though it’s almost the same as last year. Of course the same goes for Pettitte as well. Looking at the stats you can say that Andy’s performing better than Wang so far, but I think on the whole, both of them are doing much better than any of the other pitchers. Certainly better than Moose or any of the rookies we’ve called up so far.
gianthinker
thats true but what if abreu was called out? Then you have Nieves leading off the inning.
EricNS,
What part was offensive? The women in the kitchen or the Steve Phillips part? j/k.
Jeet makes that play look easy. Tough ball with momentum taking him towards the plate.
Peter-Your point about Wang is right on the money. People dont realize how much he’s overacheiving. He’s really a solid #3 that is acting as our #1. Now thats not a knock on Wang. I love him. He does a great job for us. Honestly, thats a great look into our future. When guys like Clemens, Pettitte, Mussina are no longer around and Hughes and Clippard and Wang, ect. are holding down the rotation Wang’s experience will be priceless.
Interesting, nobody is complaining about the bad call on Abreu’s stolen base? He was out.
That’s why crying about calls is a waste of time. Eventually, they even out.
One thing they can do is get Giambi out of the lineup, play Melky in CF, and DH Damon.
Melky is a 22 year old kid. He has to play everyday. He is a switch hitter, makes contact, and is their best defensive OF, which helps their pitching.
Damon is a better all around hitter than Giambi at this stage of their careers.
Giambi can’t hit with any level of consistency anymore. Play him off the bench, it might actually improve the bench, try this new combo, and see what happens.
Perhaps Melky gives them the spark he gave them last year. Its certainly worth giving it a shot. It can’t be worse than what we are seeing right now.
Pete: I think we need a separate blog post to alert the world of the breaking news that Wil Nieves got an RBI!!!
sj44-You are very right. But theres a big difference between Bobby being out by a second and us not getting an out when the guy is two feet from the bag. But you’re right. Bad calls go both ways.
Sombody tell them to take some pitches. Lackey is throwing garbage for pitches, he basically has a 1-1 strike/ball ratio. Moose seems to be holding up well, at least throwing lots of strikes.
Looks like Cano is really out of his slump.
Now let us hope for the same from Bobby.
I do not expect the same from Giambi, too much baggage and hurt.
To all you MLB.TV watchers, is that Dick’s Sporting Goods commercial absolutely killing you? Hearing that atrocious ad half-inning after half-inning is becoming the bane of my existence. Seriously, can we start a petition to bring back the Pacman game they used to play between innings? That thing was brilliant, I would actually stay to watch what happened. Plus the subliminal messages hidden in it were hilarious. Who’s with me
Another unproductive out for Abreu.. Could not even move Cano over to 3rd.. Unbelievable!!
This is what drives me nuts about Abreu. He has to move the runner over, gets a perfect pitch to do it, and takes it.
He just can’t do the right thing in run producing situations this year. Mainly because, IMO, he too passive at the plate.
He hits the next pitch, a four seamer away from the plate, to left field for an out, and doesn’t advance the runner.
Situational hitting. They are awful at it this year and it really hurts this offense.
SJ,
I would go one step further.
Bench Giambi
Matsui DH
Melky CF
Damon LF
Any day, Damon is better in outfield than Matsui.
So now some calls are going the Yankees way… lets see how it shakes out…
Alright Minky!
Nieves 2 RBI’s? I think the world is ending.
The kitchen part – also wold not want Steve P. any where near the team
NIEVES!!!!!!!! THE MOST UNLIKELY OF HEROES!
I guess Nieves heard our complaints about backup catcher!!!!
One less problem for Cashman to fix!!!!
You cannot stop Will Nieves, you can only hope to contain him.
Thankfully Nieves didn’t try to stretch that one into a double!! Way to go Wil!
Hm… maybe I should pick up Nieves in my fantasy league.
The Eric at 2:10 re the kithcen is e EricNS
Nieves is 2-2, im calling this the turning point of the season… i mean, it has to be right?
Correction the 2:19 post
Abreu is clearly out at second and then scores a run. Then Mientkiewicz doesn’t get hit but they say he did and they score again. All the Yanks have to do is complain and the umps begin to bow down to them.
What a great game. Nieves with the Yankees’ only RBI’s. Yankees get a call…or two. Minky is a wily veteran. Those two calls don’t even make up for last night’s blown call by the plate ump.
Good idea BB but, not until Damon’s legs are better.
Agree.
The interesting thing is that in the first game with Red Sox, Damon did notlook like a hurt guy. He ran well, stole bases,….
May be he just needs a couple of days rest instead of going on DL.
Fire Torre, hire Girardi.
Fire Cashman, hire me.
Yanks will be in 1st by the All Star break if the above two moves are made.
I think Peter has his points. Yes , if he is the ace , he should pick up the team, and should’nt give up three runs in first evening.But he said he is not the ace,he just try to do his job. Accordind the results ,he is not what the team wants, beacause he was not got the win,but I think he do his job well, because he work very hard,even got a hit on his leg or broken nail,he still tried to pitch. But what the best thing is he looks like better and better ,the good change up ,the good slider,and good sinker.That were all show in last night game,shot down the angel in 4-8 inngs.
I think Wang will be better and better ,if he did’nt perform well ,I think he will try to improve himself,he will not blame anything.SO I think Peter is right,that is not big deal,that’s true.
Also, Wang is starting to strike out batters more frequently. IMO, I think he is implementing more of a fastball because Wang does throw mid 90′s. So it is an adjustment period which will make him better. If he can K someone in a pressure situation then it will make him a better pitcher.
Terry, very good observation.
SJ44 – I tend to disagree with you, but today you’re right on the money.
Gary – Please keep your stupidity to yourself.
One run in five innings is a good performance so far by Mussina.
The bullpen is well rested as well.
Hoepfully, Joe will make right calls.
We need some more runs. 2 runs will not win this game. I don’t like the matchup of bullpens with the Angels so lets get some runs off Lackey.
Yanks are up but it’s sad that they need two blown calls (Minky HBP, Abreu out at 2nd) to score their runs. What is happening with these guys?
I’ve never liked Minky– 2004 World Series ball case in point– and even though it helped the Yanks, his acting performance on the HBP was puke-worthy.
Don’t give up on Clippard yet– he’s got a good arm. Cut him a little slack.
Moose looks good today.
Unfortunately, A-Rod does not have any protection and they are not giving him any thing to hit. He is reaching out to pitches out of zone to make something happen.
As SJ suggested, if Melky is the CF, the lineup can be:
Melky
Jeter
A-Rod
Posada
Matsui
.
.
.
Great inning by Moose, 6 pitches.
Will the kids like T-Clip get a fair chance as long as Joe is the manager with his blind trust in the veterans? After all these years of failure in the post season, Joe is not willing to change in his approach.
Moose is a frustrating pitcher to watch. He gives back runs the half inning after his team scores WAY too much to be considered a “star” pitcher, IMO.
But, six innings, only 1 run allowed today is as good as we can expect from him. So, I’ll gladly take it.
At some point, Joe has to get Matsui out of the 3 hole. He is a nice, complimentary player. He is not a #3 hitter in an AL batting order.
His best spot in the order is 6th. Its where he has done the most damage as a hitter in his Yankee career.
Every time they try and move him up, he tries to do too much and just pulls everything into the ground to the right side.
For those who don’t think Melky should play, look at the ground he covers in the outfield. The Yankees don’t have ANYBODY who can cover that much ground. That improves your pitching and, if he plays more, he will hit. Its tough to sit young guys and expect them to improve.
The kid has to play and Giambi needs to sit. That’s if they want to be a better all around team. Giambi, as a bench player can do the only thing he can do at this stage of his career. Swing for the downs and hope for the best a few times a week. Playing him everyday is a waste of time.
Jeter needs to be the #3 hitter on this team right now.
If they really want to try and fix what’s broken, here is the lineup that should be put in place:
Damon (DH)
Cano
Jeter
ARod
Posada
Matsui
Melky
Abreu
Minky
Better balance, you need to be top heavy to get this team out of its offensive funk, and you have more contact in the lineup.
Right way to go, IMO.
Need to take off the rose-colored glasses on Wang. He had a great season last year but he was very lucky. Hughes is the future, not Wang.
Giambi needs to go back on steroids or HGH or whatever. He looks f-ing awful.
Giambi’s virtue is patience.
This last at bat is an exmaple that he totally lost it.
No reason why he should be in the line up.
PITIFUL inning by the right there. Cano and Giambi swatting at flies I guess, Abrue with a SLOW roller to 1st.
Jetes-Matsui-ARod-Giambi = 0 for 10.
Nieves = 2 for 2
Go Will!
Come on,Abreu’s call is close.The broadcast(Yes)has technique to slow down everything frame by frame.Ump doesn’t have that.Minky HBP doesn’t lead a run.Cano was on the second base on a double anyway.That single knock in Cano anyway.No matter Minky is on the first base or not.
“Hughes is the future, not Wang.”
You need more than on pitcher to win.
Wang is part of the future.
He is a very good 3, good 2.
Wang is not a fluke. He’s not a #1, ace type guy. But, he is FAR from a fluke.
And, please, enough of the Phil Hughes stuff.
Right now, Hughes can’t even stay healthy. He’s hurt every year.
He may be a future #1, if he can stay healthy, and if he can get major league hitters out.
However, until then, he is a sign of hope and little else.
Wang is a quality pitcher who got off to a slow start due to injury this season.
Like Pettitte, if he had an offense, he would have more wins this season.
anyone think this 2-1 lead will hold up? Where the hell did our bats go?
The conditioning coach must have taken them on his way out the door. A little “parting gift.”
Great pitch Moose
Don’t know if 2-1 lead will hold up.
But the bullpen is rested.
Hopefully, Bruney and then Rivera will hold the one-run lead.
95 pitches, its the 7th, i like torre, but leave him in there – i think he threw 6 pitches last inning
SJ–
Not saying Wang is a fluke. Saying that Wang’s 2nd place finish in Cy Youngs last year was a fluke, and he’ll never have a season like it.
That being said, he’s still a good #3 or #4 starter for the Yanks. Need some other arms in there (Rocket, Pettite.)
Torre is worrying me again. Why yank Mussina– he’s been dealing all day. 95 pitches? So what?
Bad feeling about this.
Colorado, maybe our bat boys should check for termites concerning our bats, lol.
I think after today’s game the Yankees are going to get a call from the Commissioner’s office saying, “About those blown calls, um, yeah, we’re even now.”
Another quick hook? We will see.
I would not call it a quick hook.
Mussina is into the seventh innning.
It is very hot out there.
The bullpen is well rested.
It is a good move by Joe, irrespective of what the outcome will be.
Yanks bullpen=suck.
Keep the ball down Proctor.
If Proctor can get out of the inning, does he come back for the 8th or not?
I am thinking No, and Bruney pitches the 8th…
But now that the Angels will soon be ahead 3-2, doesn’t really matter… So goes another Yankee game…
Good pitching poor hitting.
I understand BB, I just don’t like replacing a pitcher who seems to be rolling.
Proctor is going to give this lead away. Where is Bruney in this situation? He has proven that he is our best RP at this point
If I were Scott Proctor, I think I would throw at someone in order to get suspended again and get some rest. Is it me or has he been in every game since he got back? And if he hasn’t actually gotten into a game, I think he’s warmed up.
Watch the bunt here….
Not a quick hook at all. If Moose threw 12 pitches he wouldn’t have come back out.
BigYank,
I understand your point. Given what happened with Mussina’s last start, Joe is not taking any chances. Believe me, I never thought I would be defending Joe!
While not Joe’s fault on inability to pitch, it is his fault on not knowing when a pitcher is missing and is going to get in trouble versus missing because he just missed.
Don’t agree with these moves. He is so gun shy right now, causing him to make very poor decisions.
BB, Lets hope the move works out, lol!
Tick, tick, tick….
From 0-2 to a walk to a PH hitting .250?
Moose pitches a GREAT game and ends up with a ND. That’s the 07 Yanks for ya.
As I said, Yanks bullpen=suck
LOL Proctor walked in the tying run!
I can’t even watch this ugly team anymore. This is the 2007 NY Yankees at it’s “finest”.
This is just unreal… Nice going Joe. Maybe you should have pulled Mussina sooner and brought in another exhausted reliever….
Change my score, Angels will win 5-2
2-0 to Figgins, batting .128…
It seems like Proctor is just padding the great NY bullpen stats. We lead the league in blown saves and lack of saves by a wide margin. The team has 3 saves this season. Not very good. Our offense either scores 11 or 2…also not very good. I have officially moved into the wait and see camp to this team is in serious trouble and will not likely make the playoffs.
Make that 3-0
It is a very tough situation for Joe now.
It is not a good idea to bring Bruney with bases loaded. Too much pressure.
He has no choice but to leave proctor there.
The only question is why he did not bring Bruney instead of Proctor when he was ready to come in.
i’m sorry but this is an inexcusable move by torre, yes the pen was rested, but mussina was throwing his best game of the year, he was only at 95 pitches
terrible.
I can’t believe Peter thinks Proctor has done his job this year. That idiot gives up hits and runs all the time!!!!
I’m starting to think that the one and only Brian Bruney is the only reliable pitcher in the bullpen.
I am seriously thinking about whether the Yankees will be making the postseason this season. It’s not like they are fighting and battling a win, they are throwing away the majority of their games, and it’s pathetic to watch.
Mussina WPA= .258
Proctor WPA = -.473 (-.5 = loss)
It’s the bullpen, stupid!
now the2nd guessers come out. torre threw the balls.. get a life.. it is the players fault not torre…
These guys suck
Realist, Proctor’s ERA before this game was under 3.00, thats not giving up alot of runs. YOU, are in FACT, the IDIOT. Now get lost.
I don’t disagree with the hook on Moose – but I do disagree with the call to Proctor. Bruney is the call hands down.
“he was only at 95 pitches.” That’s about his max. They were warming the pen when he was at 80.
Once again – it comes down to performance by the players. Proctor has to throw strikes.
my first post on this blog and i couldnt be sadder…
I knew Proctor would give the lead up!! If the Yanks lose this game are there going to be any changes??
Here is what will happen…Willits will get an out but a run will score… Angels will move up 4-2. Then Cabrera will hit a double, clearing the bases, 6-2 Angels.
Yankees will come to bat in the bottom of the 7th 8th and 9th, and laydown like always…
God, I am starting to sound as negative at Peter.
Someone needs to go for this travesty. And its Torre.
Make Bowa the manager.
I really feel bad for Joe.
The moves he made are reasonably but they did not work out.
It is really sad.
I did not feel good Joe was booed by Fans going back to the dugout. May be we lose today and he gets fired tomorrow to get him out of this misery.
Now offense has to show they can handle this kind of situations.
yea minky!!!
“Yankees will come to bat in the bottom of the 7th 8th and 9th, and laydown like always…”
laydown??? LOL
I can’t help but think that this team is the reincarnation of the 1965 team. Key players getting old before their time (Richardson, Kubek, Maris). Injuries (Mick, Tresch). The pitching that year unravelled. This is way too similar.
This is the definition of a bad team.
When the starter pitches great they cant hit and the bullpen sucks.
when thw starter sucks, the bullpen is good and they hit.
Yes, it is the bullpen. Our pen now has 10 blown saves. Boston has 2. Give us 2 and we’re 28-19 instead of 21-27. Boston would also have another loss or two as I think we blew one or two against them.
Two garbage runs off bad calls, you know the Angels are going to get that back. Now the score’s 0-0. 9 outs. What do these guys got?
I’m not one to bag on Torre all the time, but this one is SQUARELY on him. He lifts Mussina after his first walk and then he lets Proctor stay in there to give up the lead in the game. You can talk all you want about the players not hitting today but it’s besides the point because WE HAD THE LEAD. I hate everyone and everything. The only consolation I can think of is that if the players feel they can take the year off then I won’t feel that I have to care as much either.
Chris NJ: Try watching the game. I could care less what his goddamn ERA is when he can’t pitch WITH MEN ON BASE. Now go die moron.
oh, thought u meant put on the laydown in those innings CO. yeah they’re definitely layin down. the yankees already have their grills fired up for tomorrow and ready to kick back.
95 pitches may well be his max, but the move looks awful now, i dont think there are any 2nd guessers, i think fans in general are sick of torres quick hooks
he deserves all the accolades when they win, but i also think he deserves some criticism here
yes its the players who have to perform, and they havent done that this year, a 2 run deficit seems like its about 20 with this team
Oops– that’s right, we’re down 4-2. Ok. Score’s 2-0. What do you got?
Does anyone think that this team of losers is scoring 2 runs of this shutdown bullpen?
chiro: are you a DC?
As bad as it gets, I am sticking by these team. Second guessing and repeating how bad they suck or how bad they are playing does nothing for morale. I refuse to let this crew of players make me miserable!
9 outs to plate 3 runs…let’s make it happen!
Torre gets a well deserved shower of boos. Sadly, the Yankees would be better off without Clemens if it meant that Torre would be gone. Torre hurts the team more than Clemens can help.
stuart Said
May 27th, 2007 at 3:16 pm
“now the2nd guessers come out. torre threw the balls.. get a life.. it is the players fault not torre…”
No duh you genius but it was his fault that he left proctor in there that long. So in essence today WAS TORRE’s FAULT!
Just for the record, Pete. One can and should blame Torre for managing in Panic Mode. Taking out Mussina was the wrong move, and it cost us the game. Or has so far.
We cant score 3 runs against Lackey and Escobar and we’re going to get 3 off the best pen in baseball?
I doubt it. Just our luck
I wonder if Torre knew the matchup. In two previous ABs, Kendrick had doubled to left off Proctor. That’s exactly what he did today. Small sample size? Coincidence? Perhaps. What bothers me most is Torre probably doesn’t even know this.
Once again the second guessers post when the game goes sour. Hindsight we all agree – bad move. That said, if Proctor gets the job done it’s a good move. So is it really the move made by the manager or the lack of performance by the player? It’s easy to second guess decisions after the results are in.
Someone needs to be held respsonsible here.
And it should be Torre.
How can Torre be more responsible than Proctor?
proctor was the puss and when it counted could not get the job done.
the loser 2nd guessers RE WRONG..
moose was right to take out, he threw 95 pitches and also is a woose..
the players SUCK…
Mehdi writes: I hate everyone and everything.
ladies and gentlemen, there you have it. greatest comment ever.
Big Steve…It isn’t hindsight IF you look at the previous matchups. It’s called being prepared and not managing so Moose can feel good about his outing.
Yes, Steve.
“i think fans in general are sick of torres quick hooks
he deserves all the accolades when they win, but i also think he deserves some criticism here”
Well said.
Also,I do not think what Clemens said about Joe matters. He said he would not have signed if Joe were canned. I do not think Yanks made any promises that Joe is safe irrespective of what moving forward. Even otherwise, if Joe is let go what can Clemens do? Wants to void the contract? Yanks will be happy to accommodate that and save the money especially if they believe it is too late to recover.
“How can Torre be more responsible than Proctor?”
Because Torre is the reason Proctor was in the game. The way Moose had been pitching, there was no reason not to let him finish working the 7th. Terrible call.
Good clutch hitting, Matsui
Pete…I would love to know if Torre was aware of Kendrick’s history against Proctor. Is that the type of question you can ask?
We get NO big hits.
Sorry Big Steve (Big Idiot)
It’s not called second guessing when you predict bad things, before things go bad.
Yankees bullpen= suck.
And offensively, the Yankees blow another golden opportunity to tie the game.
Last season, Matsui would have undoubtely gotten a single to get Jeter home and have the game tied. Matsui’s numbers have been there, but he hasn’t been as clutch this season as in the past. And that’s with a bunch of players on the Yankees.
Whatever. I’m a gay man.
Same here chiro – just graduated in December.
williamNYY – okay, so leave moose out there to hang himself. There comes a point when he runs out of gas. The strikeout he had that inning was a questionable call. He was becoming more inconsistent. So are you suggesting Torre didn’t care to win the game, but just to make sure Moose felt “good about his outing.” ?
I wouldn’t be opposed to trading Matsui if possible either. Christ, what a rally killer.
BigYank1
May 27th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
We get NO big hits.
i agree
Jeter was clutch again.
How much more can Jeter take? He gets every hit he’s supposed to get in every situation hje’s supposed to get it in and NOBODY ELSE COMES THROUGH!
When will we get some decent hits with runners in scoring position when losing!
Come on Giambi, Abreu, matsui, and arod. What the hell is going on with this team!
Folks, stop trading insults. There is no reason for it.
Speaking of trading Matsui, he has no trade clause as well.
really? where did you go to school? i actually graduate in this upcoming december. but ive technically been a chiromaniac for a very long time now.
BigSteve…hang himself? He just walked a man on a very close 3-2 pitch. Let him pitch to Kendrick who eats fastballs alive. At 95 pitches, Moose should have been given one more batter.
Kay and Singleton both said they think Torre wanted to make sure Moose left the mound with a chance to win. If that’s the case, then it’s awful motivation. Regardless, Torre should have learned by now that Nelson, Mendoza, Stanton and Mo are not in the bullpen. Mussina was his best chance to win until he proved otherwise. A 3-2 walk to hot lefty is not a sign to me that he was out of gas.
Oh no– not Shields!
Just another reason on the long list of why Joe Torre is an awful manager.
OUR BULLPEN IS OVERWORKED. HOW F’ING HARD IS IT TO UNDERSTAND?
I understnad you have a personal relationship with Joe Torre or something, covering them, but you have to let your personal feelings towards a guy go. The guy can’t manager a bullpen out of a paper bag. And 70% of the games we have lost have been due to the bullpen. Shocking! Our starters aren’t sucking anymore. He no longer has the excuse that he has to use the bullpen. When you don’t have to use the bullpen, DON’T USE IT!
They would never trade Matsui, and rightfully so, he generates too much revenue for the team.
Jeter has protection.
A-Rod does not.
Stop this mindless A-Rod criticism.
Trade Matsui? WTF is wrong with you people
He is one of about half dozen of the current 25 I wouldn’t move
Couldn’t have said it better RYAN
Oh, come on.
Proctor was the right call. Mussina screws up in tough spots most of the time. Letting Mussina finish a tough inning usually costs us a couple, sometimes even 4 or 5, runs.
Proctor just sucked, as he does in most save situations. Bruney may have been the better call, but Proctor was not a wrong one. Much better to have him out there than Mr. Unpredictable Mike Mussina.
You may not like my comments but its pretty lame to use my name and post something that stupid. But I guess we’re dealing with a bunch of juvenile jerks.
Torre needs to go. You cant trade 25 players. Face it. He should have been gone in 2004.
This team needs to be dismantled starting from the top down. We need a real talent evaluator, who can look at a player and say “this guy will be great” or “lets pass on him” i just dont feel that cashman has that type of ability in him…I feel a Minaya type can do that.
This team is old, boring, and even worse, predictable. Joe Torre needs to be gone and not replaced by don mattingly.
Atta boy Scott…when all else fails name call and promote negativity. It’s called second guessing when you post after the fact. Your foresight into the future is astounding.
Mussina was DONE. The move to Proctor was bad, should have been Bruney as I previously stated. Torre is responsible for bringing him into the game, but not for his lack of performance. So if “someone” has to be responsible, I put it on the shoulders of the guy holding the ball – the person in DIRECT CONTROL of what occurs in the game.
Without ARod, the yankees would be 10 games under .500!
1-2 and you hit a batter?
come on.
If you really think the Yankees are going to trade guys like Matsui for prospects you are out of your mind.
How does that usually work for teams??
You build thru the draft, international signings and free agents.
The Yankees are not going to take 3 yrs off and trade veteran all stars for prospects.
No, “Big” Steve (what are you compensating for?) Posted that when Torre pulled Moose. Moose pitched a GREAT game today and should have stayed in. Look at the score.
Name me one pitcher since 2002 that Cashman has brought in here thats been good.
One.
Pavano, Brown, Vazquez, Wright, Igawa, Johnson, Quantrill, Karsay, Farnsworth
Can we please stop praising Moose and saying he shouldnt have been taken out already.
Hes a 6 inning pitcher. And Proctor is the 7th inning guy. It was a no brainer if a man got on.
Typical Moose. They get a 2-0 lead and the next inning he gives up a 2 out hit to make it 2-1.
Trade Clemens, there’s no reason to have him in NY. This team sucks mightily and they are going anywhere. And THEREFORE there’s no reason to fire Torre, the season can’t be saved. Let him stick around for this season and leave on his own terms. He deserves that.
Scott – keep it to baseball at least. Your sttempt to goad me in to a verbal spat are a clear indication of your desperation for interaction.
chiro – Palmer Florida.
williamNYY – so one more batter? I can agree with you on that. It’s my opinion that he was done, velocity was down (even more than at the start) and his breaking pitches were rolling. He was landing on a soft front leg – a sure sign of fatigue. With the go ahead run coming up, it’s a gamble.
Nice K A-Rod
“The guy can’t manage a bullpen out of a paper bag. And 70% of the games we have lost have been due to the bullpen. Shocking! Our starters aren’t sucking anymore. He no longer has the excuse that he has to use the bullpen. When you don’t have to use the bullpen, DON’T USE IT!”
Why is it so difficult for so many, including Peter, to understand this? And Joe has been doing these mistakes for a while, especially in the payoffs when the margin for error is minimal.
At the time of the aquisitions-Johnson, Vazquez, Brown, Karsay and Farnworth were considered GOOD pickups. Injuries and not being able to handle New York decimated those aquisitions.
I can’t defend Igawa, Pavano and Wright though. Those were NOT good decisions.
Nice ssppelling “Big” Steve
Wow, the comments on this blog are really devolving.
What happened to our patience at the plate?
A pitcher shouldn’t go into the 8th innings against the Yankees!
With all this talent around, saying the season cant be saved is ridiculous. Why not try to save it? Why quit? Do something. Fire Torre. Give this team a chance.
Give the fans a chance. I need to see this pathetic play all yr? If Steinbrenner was alive Torre would already be gone.
“And THEREFORE there’s no reason to fire Torre, the season can’t be saved. Let him stick around for this season and leave on his own terms. He deserves that.”
If we want the kids to develop, then Joe has to go.
This team makes me want to vomit.
How can you blame Torre for this one?
Seriously, its freakin ridiculous. Proctor blew this game. He walked in the tying and leading runs. Joe didn’t walk them in. Jeez.
Any unemployed bloggers between 20-40 should call Cash and make themselves available.
Considered good pickups and the guys actually being good is not what a GM is paid to do. Hes paid for results. How many guys you think would get this many chances?
How many GM;s would get this much money to play with and not come out with one quality pitcher in 6 yrs?
He has 220 mill to play with and cant find a bench????
What if Beane had this chance to be the GM here with all these resources? Or Terry Ryan?
You do realize that Giambi sucks because he’s off the drugs now, right? He never had talent. It’s just being exposed now.
at least i have k-rod on my fantasy team
Pete – suit up please!!
when does Giambi get booed by the stadium fans? 3 for his last 44, admitted steroid use, and failed amphetamines test last year…but he still gets a pass. This team is a disaster
At home coming off 2 out of 3 vs the Sox and this team can’t take 2 out of 3 against one of the worst hitting teams in baseball?
Scott – my deepest apologies for the misspell.
Lackey only has 105 through 8, a clear sign that we didn’t make him work enough. Angels made Moose work through deeper counts and he still held them down.
Giambi is flat out brutal.
another game blown by torre. at this point, its more surprisingly when he doesnt make some foolhardy decision that bites us in the ass during the course of a game.
time for Joe to go…although if i had been at the game, i dont think i would have booed him out of respect for his past success.
Hey Cash. Sorry your boys can’t get the job done. If you’re ready to get serious. Let’s talk.
First post, folks:
I think the Bombers are preoccupied by the standings. When you think about the ground that has to be made up, it seems hopeless. (And maybe it is, BP puts Yanks winning division at 4.53%.)
Let’s play some good baseball, go pitch to pitch, stop moving Abreu all over the place and let him hit.
Let the SP work their 6-7 innings, 100-110 pitches. No use in trying to “protect” a lead or shallow deficit by bringing in Viscaino/Proctor. The lineup hasn’t been hitting anyway. Part of the reason the bullpen is so bad this year is they’ve been overworked. Need to give them a breather
Well I’m as optimistic as anyone but if they cant go 35-15 in the next 50 this season is for all intents and purposes over with.
Some new blood and a new voice wouldn’t kill this team.
Big Steve…velocity being down is irrelevant for Kendrick because you really don’t want to through him fastballs. I am not suggesting Moose throw a CG, but at some point you have to trust him to go beyond 95 pitches when he is pitching well. Our bullpen is decent at best and always inconsistent. Taking about pitchers is a two pronged decision: sure, you have to consider the effectiveness of who is coming out…but, you also have to take into account who is coming in.
SP, trade Clemens? Do you think there is another team in all of baseball that would be willing to pay Clemens 18 million for the rest for the rest of this year?
Starting pitching wins.
While the Angels were goign after Colon and Escobar we were going after Pavano and Wright and trading the farm for Vazquez and Johnson.
That’s the difference right there.
Go up and down the lineups. They got us in 1 position. One.
Yeah why doesn’t Giambi get booed at the stadium? I was just sitting here watching him walk back to the dugout after another dreadful strikeout and asked myself just that.
The boo birds really need to get on Giambi and Abreu. Enough is enough. A-Rod got it in the past and boy does that look foolish in comparison now.
I think loss in this game (if it happens) will be the last straw that broke camel’s back!
Big Stein will not wait until going to Boston. There is a good possibility that Torre gets canned tonight. Why Torre,, not Cashman? Firing Cashman is not going to change any thing on the field and what this team needs now are changes on the field and making the palyers accountable – like benching Giambi which Torre will never do because of his loyalty to the veterans.
And, I do not blieve it will be Mattingly the interim manager. It will be either Bowa or Pena.
Cahsman’s turn will come at the end of the year. If they do not make to the playoffs he will fired too.
I still beleive with good manager in the dugout we will make it to the playoff this year.
Make that 4 positions AM. SP, BP, CF and DH.
“against one of the worst hitting teams in baseball”
Angels are 7th in Average and 10th in runs.
I still feel like we have a shot vs. KRod if the strike zone stays consistent.
williamNYY – I agree with the 2-prong analogy, and while we can agree to disagree on if Mussina should have been pulled, we agree the move to be made was not Proctor. I think Moose’s last outing vs. the Sox had residual effect as he faded late. That said – it’s a game by game thing and Moose was in full stride.
“Bruney may have been the better call, but Proctor was not a wrong one. Much better to have him out there than Mr. Unpredictable Mike Mussina.”
Yeah, right: Far better to flush a rare solid performance from the “unpredictable” Mussina by going to our EVEN MORE upredictable bullpen.
This loss is on Torre all the way.
Not that it matters but Varitek just hit a 3 run home run.
What are you guys talking about, the Yankees have a great bench…Posada, Damon…
Nice one handed rips foul by Damon. Worked the count nicely. Effective sacrifice from the exploding bat.
Moved the runners over at least. Looks like Damon is in pain with every swing.
Posada better cut the piano loose and score on a base hit!
This underscores the lack of a bench for NYY. Can’t pinch-run for Posada because Nieves already out of the game.
We’re still in it, folks!
CMON JETE
Oh boy!
How important it looks those two RBIs by walks by Proctor and Joe gets the credit for leaving him in there.
Melkey gets a nice SF after whiffing on two 12-to-6 curve balls. A rally? Jeter to win?
Good AB by Jetes. If he doesn’t deliver, its not his fault.
Very tough loss.I do not know what else proof we need.
We will not win with Joe Torre.
Liberate him as well as all fans from this misery.
Big Stein, are you listening to our prayers.
Swept.
Sorry boys, just another Angel victory and a pathetic series by the Yankees. K-Rod seemed a bit disinterested but what can you expect. I just the Yankees. Cash I’ll be in the office on Tuesday to take your calls.
GREEAAAAT.
I feel like slamming my head into a wall repeatedly.
Twelve (maybe 12 1/2) games out before June 1. Turn out the lights, the party’s over . . .
Wow. Who could have predicted 21-27, 12 games out. So much blame to go around I don’t know who to start with. To those of you who are still predicting the playoffs all I can say is”huh”?
Johnny,
Do not be too hard on yourself.
There is a tomorrow and it will be better without Torre at the helm.
I hate baseball….
12 GB. Tavarez (Sox #5 starter) shutting out Texas in the 5th. Could be 12.5 by dinnertime.
“To those of you who are still predicting the playoffs all I can say isâ€?huhâ€??”
I still predict playoffs if Torre is fired tonight.
Oh Yeah. The Red Sox are up 3-0 in the fifth behind Julian Tavarez. Remember him? Soon to be 12.5 GB
Forget about Boston.
Concentrate on Wild Card which is still achievable.
no one is going anywhere. no trades. nothing. just sit back and hang on cuz the season is going to get a lot longer.
BBFan,
What has this team shoewn you that you think they can actually turn this season around? There is too much wrong with this team.
The WC is almost as fargone as the division. The season is over…it’s time to see how many real fans there are once the Yankees return home.
Torre won’t be fired because the players with a voice in the ear of Stein say so. Jeter has said countless times that it’s ridiculous to point the finger at Torre. The players fully admit to a failure to, or lack of execution. If a new manager comes in and makes a bad move…it’ll be, “Torre would have never done that.” When a team is in a slide like this there are many people at fault. Anything short of a huge overhaul, which I am not condoning, is merely a band aid.
Torre’s not gonna get fired people. Stein has said if bad things happen he’s holding Cashman accountable, not Torre. So don’t get your hopes up on that.
On a side note, I find it sad that our main offensive contributer was Wil Nieves. You know your offense sucks when that’s all you can say….
Bronx,
The starting pitching turned around.
There are issues in bullpen, but they ar looking worse because of Joe’s stupid moves.
Offense is slowly turning around. We need another couple of guys to come out of slump.
Finally there are still 114 games and if Detroit wins today we are only 8.5 games out.
Inspite of all this, with Joe at the helm I do not see it happening.
May be I am too optimistic.
I rather be optimistic than miserable as there is still a long regular season.
You cant fire Torre now because it’s too late. It had to be done in the offseason or in late April. We are stuck with him. In getting booed, Torre got exactly what he deserves…I just wonder if he realizes that he is performing so badly?
Do not count on the fact that Stein said Torre would not be fired. He said the same about Yogi.
Wow, catching up on the last few innings… Looks like Matsui is still the model of consistency. Can’t remember who, but I was bashed for calling Matsui inconsistent on the heels of an aberration called a 4 rbi night.
Everyone gets lucky now and then…
On the Yankees, this is just sad. They are now very much like the Colorado Rockies who I get to watch every night. No matter what is going on or how good they seem to be playing they find a way to lose. The Yankees are doing that right now. That is the sign of a team that has given up and is a losing team.
So much for post season….
I will be there for most, if not all, of the 114 games remaining. Having said, I fully expect a pretty depressing summer and kind of wish I could wake up on Christmas morning with Carlos Zambrano under the tree.
wow the losers are out in force..
Peter is right, Proctor blew it.. no excuse… he had plenty of rest etc.. he just choked…
this is a team of chokers…that is right it was torre’s fault.
they cannot do anything right. when they pitch they do not hit, when they hit they do not pitch. bullpen usually does well when it does not matter, what a friggin mess…
please get rid of vizciano and farnsworth to start..
what is the latest on Hguhes? Is he coming back this yr.??????
“Mussina rarely throws more than 100.”
Last year Mussina made 32 starts. He went over 100 pitches 13 times.
“How was Torre supposed to know he would blow up?”
After the first 3 at-bats produced a double and two walks – the second one walking in a run – and one would hope Torre would recognize this just wasn’t Proctor’s day.
BBF-
“Finally there are still 114 games and if Detroit wins today we are only 8.5 games out.”
No. If Detroit wins today the Yankees are still 11 1/2 games out. And still playing like crap. Really expensive crap.
Big Stein,
I meant 8.5 games out in the wild card.
BBFan, Thanks. You have way more faith than I do. Just don’t see why, but glad that you do.
Torre is an idiot and i am tired of people defending him.
Stomy: Mussina has thrown 100 pitches twice in his last 22 starts, none this season. He did it quite often before the ASB last season but has been on the DL twice since then.
MK: I don’t know, but I suspect Bruney wasn’t warmed-up yet. Bruney did not get up until after the first walk. He needs more than 10 pitches to get loose, which is why he usually starts innings.
Peter,
Bruney was warming up before Proctor came into the game. In fact, the TV announcers were saying Bruney would come in when Mussina would be lifted.
Paraphrased “32 starts. and over 100 pitches 13 times…”
7-6 record over those 13 games
4 times he had more than 105
4 times he threw 101 pitches
95 is close – it’s on the decision line. Through all his starts last year his average pitch count was 94.8.
Furthermore, he only threw more than 86 pitches twice this season including today. He average pitch count thus far in 07 including today is 79.
“MK: I don’t know, but I suspect Bruney wasn’t warmed-up yet. Bruney did not get up until after the first walk. He needs more than 10 pitches to get loose, which is why he usually starts innings.”
I’m pretty sure that Bruney had been throwing in the bullpen during the 6th before he sat down. Perhaps it wouldn’t have taken him as long to warm up since it would have been his second time doing so.
Also, wasn’t Myers throwing too, along with Proctor?
Let’s Celebrate everyone . As a lifelong Yankees Fan, It’s time to rebuild Wohooo!!!! Yankees 2007 Season are Over……
TORRE FIRED
Pete, I just heard in a talk show in CBS that Torre and four of his coaches have been just fired minutes ago and that the Yankees are preparing a press conference this afternoon, ¿can you confirm that?
JAM.
There is no talk show on CBS.
It is still the post Game segment.
Wonder if the Angels would even consider taking Giambi in a trade now?
He looks fried.
Then make Matsui the everyday DH – put Damon in left and get some young guy who can cover a lot of ground in centerfield.
And hope Farnsworth gets traded to Philly.
Jam: There is no talk-show on WCBS and that didn’t happen.
Pete I hear so many excuses for Joe Torre that it is not even funny anymore.
let me count the ways his managing effected this series
1. What’s Bobby doing hitting 1st ?
2. runner on first w/ one out did we have to hit and run w/ Matsui while Rodriguez was left on deck
3. why is Jeter bunting didn’t he have a 19 game hit streak
4. Joe you think you can argue that strike out yeh the game ended but atleast draw attention to that crap and don’t wait for postgames to do it either.
5. Moose stinks this season as a SP today he was on, why is he using Proctor for what, what hit made him think oh oh I gotta get the bullpen up
6. don’t ever use this combo in the OF Damon,Matsui and Abreu it’s horrendous
7. This team if it’s not Joe Torre then why are they not clicking ? You want him to stay play for him, Jetes waiting till the 7th to wake up, Alex never has anyone on base to drive in , Giambi has been horrible, there’s no urgency in this team and managers who can’t inspire a team I’ve been saying this Torre gets paid 7 million dollars to make smart decisions, his decisions have been horrible the past 3 seasons
8. How about Mussina shuts up in the post game about Torre pulling him out, because he’s not exactly pitching steller, too many problems but one thing I know is Cashman get on the phone start selling Damon,Abreu, Giambi yes even Matsui, they haven’t helped much this season anyway.
Someday (maybe) someone on the Yankees will get a hit with a runner in scoring position and it will mean something like maybe a win. I was sure FRod would walk Jeter to get to Matsui but why bother when no one on the Yankees can hit in the clutch right now.
Torre should finish out the season but I’m sick of him. Thank Joe for all you have done but I can’t stomach this anymore. We’ll never see what kids like Clippard have with Torre around and it is clear we need to find this out since this team needs to be re-built. I can’t wait until next year.
Pete what would it take to get these guys
Chris Duffy
Wilson Bettemitt (release Cairo already)
Carl Crawford
Matt Lidstrom
(seriously I’m interested for each what would we have to part)
can Damon,Matsui or Abreu land someone like them ?
“Stomy: Mussina has thrown 100 pitches twice in his last 22 starts, none this season. He did it quite often before the ASB last season but has been on the DL twice since then.”
Yeah, I know, and I think Torre was right to lift him from the game. But it still doesn’t make a blanket statement like “Mussina RARELY throws more than 100 (pitches)” — emphasis mine — correct.
I don’t mind Torre lifting Moose from that game. I just object to this perception that Mussina is some sort of big baby. I think it’s a bad rep.
Oh yea, Damon for Carl Crawford!
Why not also trade Abreu for Johan Santana and Joe Mauer to be the backup catcher?
I have never seen a team that needed a ten game winning streak like this one needs right about now.
You can blame Joe for a lot of things but bringing in Proctor in the 7th isnt one of them.
This team just doesnt have the starting pitching to win.
There two best starters are rehabbing in Tampa right now and pitching in Triple A on Monday.
Now if they had Clemens and Hughes all season it would be different. But trusting Igawa and Pavano is going to cost Cashman and Torre their jobs.
4th post in a row but I’m just really upset over the lack of wins. Uggggggh.
Under 500 with A ROd playing like an MVP. Jeter playing like one too. And Posada playing like one three.
What a waste of three great seasons. Not to mention Pettitte pitching like a Cy Young winner.
its sad to say but it’ looks like its over for this season i mean it for the way they are playing, for the injuries, for the attitude, for the wrong signings, things started wrong and are going wrong, i dontlike to say this but if still tere is a minimal chance to make postseason i think the comeback has to start right now, but sometimes it looks impossible, for the next year Gm gotta think in the pitching staff and the bullpen, you cant win a world series without pitching, if you give a team like this a very good pitching staff you are making a machine cuz the yankees can bat a lot but with this pitching the batter can be demoralized cuz they bat and hit, but the pitch cant back up ,you start to feel tired and this is what is happening right now, for the next year could be good idea try to get johan santana, to make a rotation with him,wang,pettitte,hughes,and maybe mussina in the fifth spot
and saying good bye to vizcaino, fanrsworth, proctor and find good relievers , and if possible try to get guys like suzuki or andrew jones. and fire guidry, find a good back up catcher. and bring joe girardi as coach maybe he could take the yankees to the 27 world series, but is still have a little hope that it could happen this year
Someone wants to trade Matsui for Chris Duffy and Matt Lidstrom and Wilson Betmit.
You see what losing does to people? It makes them nuts.
igawa is the best!
LITTER THE FIELD! THROW GARBAGE AT THE PLAYERS!
Its starting pitching. We got a good bullpen. But bullpens arent meant to pitching 4-5 innings a night. No bullpen can do that and be successful.
Good starting pitching means a great bullpen.
See Anaheim. See Boston.
If the starters were going 6-7 every night the guys in the pen would be on regular work and in regular roles.
First thing on Cashmans tombstone
Chose Igawa over Ted Lilly.
“And, please, enough of the Phil Hughes stuff.
Right now, Hughes can’t even stay healthy. He’s hurt every year.”
Overreaction statement of the year. You have to be kidding me, normally have knowledgable opinions but this one is way off base.
bruney, mo, sometimes proctor
myers, vizcaino, villone, farnsworthless =GARBAGE
Starting pitching was not bad in the last few days. It is the mis use of the bullpen and lack of ofense that are problems.
uhh giambi you DO need that ‘stuff’ to hit homeruns cause without it you SUCK!!
The bullpen was misused because the starters couldnt pitching more than 4 innings.
Sox sweep, Ya(n)ks get swept
therston,
When the Yanks lose (which is way too often nowadays) you get the loons coming out of the woodwork with stupid comments like that.
Saying a 20 yr old who has never had an injury before this hammy is injury prone is beyond crazy.
Let the kid buy a drink in a bar before you say hes injury prone.
Agreed the kid had as good of a minor league career as you could ask for. He wouldnt be as highly rated if he had injury issues.
Curly
May 27th, 2007 at 6:05 pm
Someone wants to trade Matsui for Chris Duffy and Matt Lidstrom and Wilson Betmit.
You see what losing does to people? It makes them nuts.
——————————————————
I asked what do we have to do to get these guys , don’t insult my posts
check what each player does
first Bettemit is a very good PH this season as a PH batting .714, a switch hitter who is 26 years old better option than Cairo, oh add to that last season he had 9 HR 21 RBI 7th inning and up.
Chris Duffy a speedster w/ an arm and a very good CF, his contract soon to be done w/ the Pirates still not interested.
Matt Lidstrom a solid setup man who’s stats get bad because the Marlins are the worst fielding team in the MLB.
You have to think creatively you know, atleast debate don’t insult my opinion, tell me why you don’t agree.You like watching Damon done and get nothiing for him while we’re at it, and lets be honest Matsui has been horrible this season, eversince that injury w/ his wrist. Proctor can you defend him to me ? and Bobby Abreu please stop last season yes he saved us but he has turned into a dog again, the only good thing about Abreu is his contract is up after this season.
“The bullpen was misused because the starters couldnt pitching more than 4 innings.”
How do you explain the bonehead moves even when the starters are pitching 6+ innings? Starting pitching has been in fact very good for the last few days once Wang and Mussina came back from injuries. Today’s game was lost because bullpen was not managed properly. It was very clear after two batters, Proctor did not have good stuff/control. Is the manager not responsible to recognize it and make a corrective action before it is too late? How frequently we have been seeing this kind of ingame mistakes….
Terrible weekend yankee wise. Who would have thought Prcotor would be so awful? Easy to second guess Torre pulling Moose after a walk. I mean, Torre made the signal before even talking to Moose, in the old days he would jog out and ask his veteran pitchers if they could handle this batter or two, today he once again was captain hook. I don’t blame Torre though, this loss is more on Proctor. Oh well, least we are done with Anaheim for now.
I keep on saying Joe Torre is paid $ 7 million dollars to manage the game , I ask anyone here is he worth or is he earning that money this season ?
kyle farnswroth has nice glasses!
One question away from the beaten path: why isnt chris britton on this team? He is posting a 0.78 era at scranton with MUCH more than a hit per inning!
another thing from perusing the minor league stats-how about calling up shelly duncan? he is tearing the cover off the ball at AAA hitting way over 300 with an OBP of over 400. You CANNOT tell me at this point he shouldnt be given some AB’s over bobby abreu. Maybe that will inject some life into this team. We certainly need something and that may provide a spark…does anyone agree?
i made a mistake..i meant K per inning…sorry
“BBFAN”
By your logic Torre should have replaced Proctor after 2 batters. That would mean having someone already warmed up in case Proctor was bad.
If you warm up guys in case guys will be bad you’ll burn out your bullpen and many times the guys you warmed up won’t need to come in anyway. Are you also one of the many people who think Torre is burning out his bullpen? You can’t have it both ways.
Maybe you aren’t aware that it takes more than 2 minutes to get a guy warmed up because you wanted another pitcher warming up as soon as Proctor came in.
Did you want another pitcher warming up as soon as Proctor came in or are you just second guessing?
“One question away from the beaten path: why isnt chris britton on this team? He is posting a 0.78 era at scranton with MUCH more than a hit per inning!”
I am sure I am going to ruffle the feathers of the Torre apologists, but what the heck…..
Bitton is not in the Majors becuase Clueless Torre just beleive in his veterans like Vizcaino and does not turst or use youngsters like Britton.
The other day during the double header, Cashman brought Britton up. What does Torre do? He does not use him in the first game, but uses his ineffective veterans. In between the double header, Britton gets optioned back to the minors as they needed to make a move to get opening for the starter. Doesn’t Birtton deserves to at least enter the first game?
There is only so much Cashman do about it. He is going to pay the price with his job for defending Joe durig the off season.
Until a mangaer who believes in giving a chance to the younsters is at the helm, this kind of non-sense will continue.
Why do we keep asking who’s fault it is for this crappy season – it’s the fricken players! Just send guys home and tell them they can’t play anymore! The team is better off with them watching late night TV. You’re already stuck with their salaries – don’t let them keep stricking out and grounding into DP’s!!! Pay them to go play for the Nationals! Geez, that might be an upgrade in record in just a few more days…
Question – since Arod won’t stick through a Bronx rebuilding, what can you get if you traded him in July?
Just assume he says he’ll waive his no-trade clause.
Brandon,
Is Torre worth $7 million this year?
The answer is the same as to the question – “is Abreu worth $16 million this year?”
Basua,
Did you watch the game?
I know you did not, because I do not recall any posts from you during the game.
Bruney was already warming up during the sixth innning. Every one, including the announcers were thinking that Bruney would come in. Instead, Torre brought in Proctor, which I do not quesiton. But when he did not have the control, Torre should have gone to Bruney who was already ready in the bullpen.
What about shaking things up by “reassigning” Joe Torre to the front office and bringing Giraldi down from the booth to manage?
Until a mangaer who believes in giving a chance to the younsters is at the helm, this kind of non-sense will continue.
i totally agree with you on that one…countell examples of this: taking clippard out was the latest.
its so clear that joe must go. here is a wild one: bring back buck showalter.
* The players love Torre.
* The players suck.
How do you fix this? The only solution is to get rid of everyone who sucks.
It’ll cost you money & games.
It’s already costing you money and games.
The key question is: What does patience get you?
1. Good baseball? Haven’t seen that yet.
2. Bad baseball that’s expensive? (and frustration)
3. Bad baseball that’s cheap? (with the youth that’s at least exciting)
What do you do Big Stein?
To me then, a start would be to DFA Vizciano, and bring up Britton. I cannot believe that chris britton cannot do a better job than jose vizcaino. i know butchered the spelling but everyone knows who he is and how horrible he has been.
They sent Kei Igawa back to Tampa to re-learn how to pitch.
Can they do that with some of these hitters?
Somebody also needs to run over Abreu with a golf cart. He can’t kill the team from the DL.
Basura,
I do agree with you that warming up the bullpen guys all the time whether they are used or not is not a good thing. I stated that a couple times in the past.
How about sending Joe to Tampa to re-learn how to manage. Just kidding….
Bringing back Buck may not be a bad idea.
He is a control freak and will certainly drive these non-performers crazy until they perform.
Having been fired in Arizaona and Texas he must have learnt his lessions how to deal with palyers.
He is certainly a better in game strategy manager.
People may say that a monkey could have managed the Yankees over the past 11 years and won division titles, league titles and world series. I disagree. Torre is not perfect and does make mistakes. No manager at no amount of money is going to be perfect — a manager is only as good as the players he’s given, and then whatever little thing he adds to the mix. This particular mix of players at this time is not doing the job they are paid to do.
Buck Showalter may be a good in-game strategist, but he has not won. So, what good does that do? There are no easy answers here, and there is no quick fix. BUT if the players start to do what the GM and manager and everyone else assumed they would do, this season immediately gets better. Unfortunately, they do not control their own destiny anymore, because they are falling behind and must depend on other teams to cool off, but I stand by the “if they do their jobs, things get a whole lot better” statement.
Here’s my thoughts:DeSalvo gets sent down for Britton (so yes,I agree with you,jonathan,) and Shelly Duncan and Bobby Abreu can trade place (can we send Abreu to Triple A and call Duncan up)?
If indeed Joe is let go, I do not think Joe Girardi will be made manager right away.
Due to Bud Selig’s edict, they must interview some minority candidates before making decision. When Detroit hired Leyland, they did not do so and they were investigated.
There is no guaranty that Girardi will be given the job either. I personally think it is a mistake to give it to Mattingly, but that is what may happen.
In all likelyhood, either Bowa or Pena will be made interim manager and then the selection of the permanent manager will be done in the off season. By then, Cashman my be history too.
I really hate to sound like one of these people who wants heads to roll everytime we hit a slump, but I really think George needs to take a long hard look at other options for a GM if not now than at the end of the season.
Just think about some of the moves Cashman’s made over the last few years: Pavano, Igawa, Wright, Brown (though granted that’s stretching back a bit) the Scheff and Johnson trades, Farnsworth, passing on Dice-K when he knew he would wind up in Boston if he did, and faling to bring in a reliable bullpen to back up Mo. When you have older guys anchoring your staff like Moose, Andy, and Johnson, they won’t be able to 8 innings every start. Eventually they’re gonna need someone to fall back on.
Granted there have been some good moves in there too: Matsui, Damon, Abreu (Yes, I still call that a good move), Pettite, Bruney and Proctor have all been good finds but we’ve been getting killed for our weak and aging pitching staff for a few years now and Cashman still hasn’t found an effective solution. It’s about time takes the blame for that.
Bowa for manager!!!!
Girardi for manager!!!
Pena for manager!!!…maybe
Anyone but DON “THE CURSE” Mattingly.
Your right, i am bad luck…fire me PLEASE!
The team has never won with me, as soon as i left…the team won in 96, as soon as i come back, we have never made it far in the playoffs.
The good magic are gone from Bronx since 9/11/2001. Mystic and Aura went Boston sports teams not Yankees anymore.. Opposing Teams fears Redsox now than Yankees. It’s over. I won’t see anymore world series titles in these decade.
Correction
I like Buck, but you can’t bring him back as long as AROD is on the team.
That’s just asking for more trouble.
Sally:
At $16 Million per, Abreu is not going anywhere.
I agree, however, (and have said a few times before) that Shelley Duncan should have his shot as a DH. DL Giambi for 10 days and see how Duncan performs. He’s a righty, has power, both of which are sorely needed in this lineup – but is below average fielder.
If Johnny Damon can’t play everyday and is reduced to pinch hitting and DHing, then he needs to go on the DL to heal to
give Kevin Thompson an extended look.
And for those that claim Wang has “under performed” – based on what measure? He experienced a truncated Spring and is just now starting to gain his effectiveness, can generally be counted on to go deep into each start, is 3-3 with a 4.13 ERA for a team with one of the worst records in baseball…and HE GETS PAID $489,500! Now, how does his performance compare to other Yankee “legends” with salaries 10-15 times greater than Wang’s….Igawa? Mussina? Pavano?
Get Real!
Wang is 3-3, sorry for that.
we cant even start to worry about ty\he wild card until we’re at least a few games over .500. but as it stands now, we’re 8 out.
… one game at a..zzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
An Allen “Bud” Selig edict is window dressing, PR, or BS. They hired Joe Girardi’s replacement before they even fired him. There were no protocols followed re minority interviews. Allen “Bud” Selig may say there were, but he says whatever he wants and never has to prove anything. Re Scott Proctor not having pitched ‘since Friday’ would mean he had 1 day off. Since he’s been overused, I wouldn’t call him “rested” and a sure thing.
Wang’s first two games were bad, then his May ERA in 5 games is 3.53. He could be better for sure, but I wouldn’t say he’s underperformed.
The rightness or wrongness of a move is not dependent on the outcome. Sometimes the right move backfires, and sometimes you get away with making a wrong move, but the outcome never defines them as right or wrong.
If bringing in Proctor was the right move, and I’m not saying it was, the fact that he crapped the bed doesn’t make it wrong. If bringing in Proctor was the wrong move, and again, I’m not saying it was, and if he got out of the inning unscathed, that wouldn’t make the move right.
Look at it this way: Your starter goes 8 innings, throws 114 pitches, and is leading 3-1. Bringing in your closer is the right move, even if he blows the game. Likewise, if your starter is working on a one-hitter, leading 3-0, and has only thrown 85 pitches, bringing in your closer is probably the wrong move, even if he secures the save.
When the right move backfires, people second guess it, but rarely second guess a wrong move that turns out okay. However, it is very important to consistently make the right move, because over the course of a long season, the right move will tend to produce the desired result more often than not.
But the result NEVER defines the rightness or wrongness of the move. The move is either right or wrong before you know the result.
Putting it Proctor was the right move. Torre had no idea that Proctor would be clueless. He usually ins’t and is reliable. He isn’t an ace, he is a reliever and does give up hits, but he doesn’t do what he did today.
Cashman won’t get fired. He will get yelled at and pressured to make moves. Big Stein and family will start having more control and Cashman will become just a puppet again.
Why Cashman isn’t going down to AAA to move some players up is beyond me. It worked for him in the past and he isn’t doing it now. You got me on that one. Britton, Shelley, and Thompson would be what is needed right about now. It isn’t working with the team they have on the field. Time to shake things up and get some spark out there.
I KNOW what is actually holding the Yankees back. Clemens. The spark isn’t there cause they are waiting for Clemens. In their heads they think that things will change when Clemens comes up. It’s a mental thing going on. They need to stop thinking about Clemens and start playing.
The team they have isn’t bad. They are more than capable of winning games. The bullpen is more than capable of keeping them in games. The starters are just fine.
They need to do some meditation. Clear their heads and go out and play the game that they can all play very well.
The ones that do need to go are:
Giambi – seriously talk to the Angels and see what can be done, if nothing then release him. It’ll look good for the Yankees if they do, even if they have to keep paying him. Him off the team will win them games. You have the DH open to give guys 1/2 days off. That will make a difference.
Vizcaino needs to be thoroughly checked out and see if he has some arm problem. If he doesn’t, then send him to AAA to figure it out. Britton as a replacement.
DeSalvo will go to AAA once Clemens is up, which is a good thing as he needs more time in AAA. Next season expect good things from DeSalvo.
Wil Nieves sucks and needs to go to AAA and Yanks need to find a real backup catcher.
Farnsworth needs to become a trading chip and quick.
Other than that, it’s a good team. Damon on the DL and let Shelley or Thompson come up and play.
Abreu will come around. He is just too involved in his slump. He needs a few games off and a bit of alone time to learn how to clear his mind when he goes up to bat.
Also don’t forget that the Yanks went up against 3 great pitchers this weekend. The games were close. They lost, but they aren’t out of it yet. The Red Sox will collapse as they always do. Over 100 games left.. anything can happen. Really, ANYTHING can happen.
If nothing happens, then we have 2008 to look forward to. Yankees can’t always make the playoffs and they don’t always make the playoffs.
“Wang was second in the Cy Young voting last season and won 19 games. He has had seven starts this season, four of them were quality starts. Three were not. He has allowed a lot of hits.”
Wang’s ERA 4.13 is better than Matsuzaka 4.43
Wang 3-4 Matsuzaka 7-2
The offense woes make the difference.
“Sorry, but that’s not what that they expected. But he has not yet been what they hoped.”
They would have paid Wang more if they had expected anything. He has been saddled with the label of number 1 yet paid as number???
You definitely love him more if he is an japanese import.
CJ TPE,
Can I call you moron CJ?
You don’t know major league baseball at all, all you think is money and that make me very very sick.
CT TPE: Why would his being Japanese make a difference? Money doesn’t matter either.
Wang has been good. He has not been very good as they hoped. You can’t discount those first two starts.
Peter,
I’ve been wondering why you and Yankee would ever think WANG is the #1 SP, I believe he is a very good #3 at most. What ground do you think he is #1?
Doesn’t the club have too much unrealistically expectation from him?
I would really appreciate your response.
bestkevin,
Actually, we got no ACE right now. Pettitte is the #1 SP not a ACE. Wang is a good #2 .
Peter,
Perhaps, Wang’s performance doesn’t live up to some people’s expectation. However, I disagree you put Wang as underperformed for the reason.
Except Pettitte, in our team, most players’ performances are not as good as expected so far. At least, Wang works hard to help the team, and I think he does it well. He may be not an ace now, and definitely he is not an underperformer either.