Welcome to last place
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- May
- 28
There’s an old saying among managers. If you’re going to call a team meeting before a game, make sure you have your ace on the mound.
I’m here to tell you, Matt DeSalvo is no ace.
The next book DeSalvo will be reading is “Summer Fun in Scranton, Pa.” because he is overmatched at the big-league level. He’s basically afraid to throw strikes, probably because he knows his 88-mph fastball will get hit.
In his last three outings, DeSalvo has allowed 10 runs on 13 hits and nine walks. All that in 8 innings.
Dustin McGowan hasn’t been good this season but he showed tonight why he was a first-round pick in 2000. He had a good fastball and a changeup that was dipping and diving.
Here is Joe Torre’s postgame press conference:
i wish I had answers for you. The Yankees are playing so poorly that I’m not sure who you can blame. Torre met with them for nearly an hour before the game and nothing came of it. They had a long pre-game workout. They have tried changing the lineup. They have tried pretty much everything.
Right, except firing somebody. At some point that will be next. But this team has bigger problems than its manager. A lot of players are getting old at the same time and no manager alive can change that.
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on Monday, May 28th, 2007 at 11:39 pm by Peter Abraham.
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I heard that the forty-one minute “meeting” was actually just the result of messy group dynamics around everyone ordering “a la carte” sushi at this really great local joint near Kensington in Toronto. Apparently, there was some confusion about the “white tuna” versus the “fatty tuna” and a bunch of the players had to fill out completely new menus.
I hope we dump alot of these guys at the trade deadline. SOME of them might have some value so we can get a few prospects that MIGHT actually help in the future.
If any good can come of this, its the end of Matt DeSalvo on the big league roster. They were playing with fire with Sir Walks-a-lot to begin with, and I feared those two Mariners games would keep him on the team for months on end.
If George wants to fire someone, why doesn’t he fire the sorry excuse for a DH that they keep running out there?
He can’t field, he can’t run, he can’t hit, and he’s clogging up not only three roster spots (because we have to have two other 1B on the team), but the DH spot as well, which could be better utlized by allowing all three OFers to get time there (not to mention get Melky more playing time so that maybe he can hit more than .220).
You might as well release him…either way, you’re paying him megabucks to do nothing.
Trade Farnsworth and Meyers and if we have to part with a younger guy dump DeSalvo in a package and lets get someone who doesnt implode. We shoudl make an offer for Linebrink.
Pete, do you have to be so mean? You’re being cruel to DeSalvo—and why? He seems like a pretty nice guy. He was good enough to get drafted, he pitched well enough in the minors, and he made it up to the big leagues and got a win. Not many people can say that. Is he good enough to stick with this team? No. Is he good enough to be a fifth starter in the NL? Maybe. He’s not horrible. And I wouldn’t be shocked to see him back in the big leagues for another team. Maybe as a longman or out of the bullpen. He’s not “overmatched” on this level. He’s just average. Not a crime—but not good enough for this team, especially when better options exist.
DeSalvo should never have even been promoted. Clippard and Wright as both more talented than him, and you can make the case that Alan Horne, who’s in AA, is better too. DeSalvo was never a real prospect in my eyes. I think his spot in SWB is blocking others (the aforementioned Horne).
DeSalvo was a disaster last year and even this year, with his 1 AAA ERA, he was walking too many. It’s not a surprise that he walked too many here. He got two starts too many here.
But he gave the Yankees two decent starts and one victory. That one horrendous bullpen outing was more on Torre than him.
The bottom line is this: he’s going back to AAA, he might have blown his chance to make it with this team, and that’s nothing to be so flip about. You almost seem to be ridiculing him.
Doing what he did—making it to the big leagues—is more than we’ll ever do in baseball.
A little respect.
Who in the world would trade for DeSalvo? You may never see him in a major league lineup again.
Only the Royals and the Rangers are playing worse than the Yankees. Both have a lower winning percentage. Every other team in the AL has a better percentage and the Devil Rays are tied with the Yankees as why they share last place.
In the NL:
Nationals
Astros
Cardinals
Reds
6 teams are playing worse than the Yankees.
It’s really sad to watch this happen. This team needs a major shakeup to ignite whatever dormant talent lies in their old bones.
Time to stop signing over 30 players and start looking at young players.
To be quite honest, I am really looking forward to the trade deadline period to see who the Yankees can get for a lot of these guys who will probably do well with a change of scenery. Maybe Moose can get a ring with someone else. Maybe ARod flourishes in Anaheim and gets a ring. Who knows. It ain’t happening here, that’s for sure. And guys who have no trade clauses that are mired in bad baseball situations mid-season have been known to waive those clauses.
I just hope the Yankees have some good advance scouts checking out the farm teams of the ML contenders. And that they don’t screw up like they did with the Ohlendorf over Owings choice in the RJ deal.
Somebody in one of the other discussion threads floated the idea of trading Rivera. Obviously, you trade him out of the AL, but it is an intriguing possibility, since he will be out in the open by year’s end as a free agent. The Yankees could always go after him then, but reap the benefits of the “csot of rental”. They could also decide it’s time to move on. It would break my heart to see him go, but this team just isn’t getting him any opportunities to actually play. So why not roll the dice?
Robinson Cano, overrated
I use to be the biggest fan of Cano because when he first came up he had that youthful exuberance and energy that you always see from Melky Cabrera, but he’s lost that. Cano has become Bobby Abreu. He has this aura about him that is evident from the stands and from the TV set. He seems to think he has it made here and it’s been said many times about him that he too “big league”. Cano doesn’t have the humility and the drive that you’d expect from such a young player from the Yankee farm system.
Cano has a lazy style of play both on offense and defense. Bobby Abreu is not the kind of player the Yankees want Cano to turn into. I haven’t seen Torre or anyone do anything to curtail his behavior. Cano seems to be getting worse. He should realize that he did have a good year last year and that although he’s more talented than Melky Cabrera—Melky is a much better hitter with RISP and a much better clutch player than he’s been. Cano must think he’s on the same level as David Wright or Jose Reyes and he’s delusional if he does, but he sure act like he does.
Cano was a guy who never hit .280 in the minors and now he’s showing us why. He’s a singles and doubles hitter, he has no power, his defense is average, his speed is average, and his plate discipline is atrocious. He’s Soriano with better defense, without the power, speed, and arm. He’s not in the same class of Reyes or Wright. A little humility will do this young player a lot of good. He went from being one of my favorite Yankees to be someone I can’t stomach watching.
If the Yankees had a better utility person on the bench and Cano got benched earlier in the year for a few days he’d be playing a lot better now and he wouldn’t be so “big league” now but the manager and GM have created a monster.
Yeah, that’s a good idea…let’s trade the best closer in the history of baseball.
Maybe we can package him with Jeter and get a few prospects.
Get serious, people.
i agree with stormy peter…you didn’t have to diss desalvo like that. i’m wondering who you would have put on the mound tonight. it’s not like we have much choice at this point.
Utah Jazz Fans are chating Yankees Suck chants during Jazz/ Spurs game tonight..
Maybe we need to get Abreu as far away from Cano as we can. He doesn’t seem to be a good ‘role’ model for Robinson.
*chanting
Peter, I seriously don’t understand constantly defending Torre. The guy just doesn’t light the fire with these guys at all. Yeah, yeah, he can manage a bunch of veterans, blah, blah. But you know what? So could Billy Martin. Girardi was a hardnosed guy and turned around a team of doe-eyed rooks and rejects. To be sure there are injuries and whatnot, but there is no reason this many guys should be terrible at once except for the general feeling that it’s over. And that’s the manager’s job. Keep the team motivated. Torre is already the lamest of ducks since it’s a sure thing he’s not coming back. And the team feels that way. I really don’t care if Jeter and Posada are hurt at the thought of firing “Mr. Torre”. This mess is also their fault. Yeah, yeah, I know, they’re hitting 1 and 2 in the league. But they’re also the team leaders and it’s their jobs to kick and scream at the rest. Silently leading is obviously not working here.
Cashman, please pull the plug and let gravity take the soiled water down the drain.
Desalvo is a awful. His 2 good starts were against the Mariners who swing at anything in sight(like Cano). Now that he is facing teams that you actually have to throw strikes to he is wild and walks the ballpark. Desalvo should be sent down tomorrow and they should bring up Britton for the week and then on Monday activate Clemens. If Britton does good for the week then Vizcaino or Myers should be released and Britton should stay but we know Clueless loves the washed up veterans. Clippard should be the 5th starter until Hughes comes back. Or bring up Wright if they need another starter, atleast he has good stuff.
Word Stormy.
Whether or not its his fault, how much longer does Kevin Long stick around? He should be the first to go.
2007 Yankees
Sign Yulieski Gourriel and play him 2nd base. Trade Cano for pitching help..
pete
what you fail to mention, that in addition to the roster aging quickly, the players that are showing thier age, Giambi etc, are untradeable. So there will be no trade deadline deals for youth. The players we would like to see go either have no trades, are 5-10 players or have no value on the open market without the Yankees picking up most of thier contract. So unless they can finish what Ponce de Leon started and find the fountain of youth, I fear that we are in for a couple of long years until some of these contracts expire.
Whether or not its his fault, what becomes of hitting coach Kevin Long? It seems he should be the first to go, considering the current offensive production.
you’re right chris…kevin long should go…
Kevin Long fired. Mattingly back as hitting coach. Girardi as bench coach.
Torre keeps losing, fire him and promote Girardi.
I get that he played with a lot of these guys and it makes it tough and weird and he isn’t much older than most of them. But he needs to let that go and do what he did with the Marlins.
How nice would it be if Steinbrenner finally realized that the mess this team is in is primarily his fault. The spending binge this team has been on the past 6 years has brought in players toward the end of their prime that are now showing their age. Don’t go out this FA season and spend on everyone that’s available. Sign some guys that may not be the best at their positions, but bring it every single game.
The only thing they can do now is not fire anyone and ride this out until the end of the season, and then re-evaluate things.
Torre is already the lamest of ducks since it’s a sure thing he’s not coming back. And the team feels that way. —————————————————————-
Can you tell us what they had for dinner in the clubhouse tonight? What was playing on the big-screen TV? How much mail was piled up in Jeter’s locker? Where they were going for after-game drinks? Apparently you’ve been speaking with the team…at least in your own head.
I really don’t care if Jeter and Posada are hurt at the thought of firing “Mr. Torreâ€?. This mess is also their fault. Yeah, yeah, I know, they’re hitting 1 and 2 in the league. But they’re also the team leaders and it’s their jobs to kick and scream at the rest. Silently leading is obviously not working here.———————————————————Yeah, let’s blame Jeter and Posada, it’s all their fault. Because, after all, you’ve been talking to the team, so you know exactly what it is Jeter and Posada have been doing in the clubhouse.
Some of you spoiled brats need to grow up. When it comes to the Yankees, and baseball, you have no God-given rights…despite what you believe.
Donna, it’s about this year, and Rivera said in ST that once this year is over, he is a FA and the Yankees are going to have as much of a shot at signing him as the other teams.
Yes, RIvera is one of the main reasons for the good things that happened over the past 11 years. But the current situation is such that:
1) The Yankees are not in a position to use a closer in most of their games this season and he’s gotten very little work.
2) The team is going nowhere this year.
As I stated before, I believe it’s the end of the road for guys like Mussina who they brought in to continue the success of the 96-2000 teams, and also for more recent acquisitions like Damon, Abreu, even Matsui.
It’s over, and I am excited to see who the Yankees can get—that is, if they have good scouts working for them.
Yes, Rivera is currently the best closer in the HISTORY or the game. He is not the best closer now, but he is DAMN good. He could bring back alot if a team has a need. You never know, he could be like Rickey Henderson and the A’s, coming back again after the end of the season.
But all indications from the press pieces I read after they would not extend him during ST is that he was angry at the Yankees. Who knows if he would even come back next year if we held on to him?
Anyway, it’s just a thought, and in my heart, I am in agreement with you, I’d love to see the Yankees hold on to Rivera forever. But the team’s decline has been coming on for some time now. It’s time to accept it and realize that with the exception of very few guys, nobody should be untouchable on this roster when it comes to trades that could potentially greatly improve the team in the long run.
Ryan, bravo. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
He may not be tearing it up, but I have to say that Doug Mientkiewicz has impressed me this season. Aside from great defense, he plays hard and he really seems to give a damn. I wish we had more players like that, rather than this overpriced bunch of washed-up has-beens.
They were chanting “referees suck.”
And no one, at least no big names, are getting traded. Get real.
But the team’s decline has been coming on for some time now. It’s time to accept it and realize that with the exception of very few guys, nobody should be untouchable on this roster when it comes to trades that could potentially greatly improve the team in the long run.
———————————————————————-
Michael, I do not disagree with you that the decline has been coming for some time, nor that aside from a few, no one should be untouchable. However, you don’t put the best closer in the game in the “touchable” category, especially in May.
You say the team is going nowhere this year. I will admit that I don’t think they’re going to win the AL East this year. However, will you be the first one on here in September eating humble pie if they turn things around and win the wild card? And have to go into the playoffs without Mo, because they gave up on him less than halfway into the season?
Donna, Mo used to be the best closer in the game…but those days are over.
Why does Jeter never bet leadoff? Give your best hitter and baserunner the opportunity to start the game right. The last 4 games the leadoff spot is 2-for-18 with no walks. I think it’s more pressure to bat in front of Jeter than behind him. At least with Jeter on-base you can jones off his energy on the bases instead of making a quiet out in front of him. If Jeter was batting leadoff you could do some hit-and-run and base stealing to generate offense instead of just “rearranging the furniture.” Put the Loveseat that is Derek Jeter at the top of the lineup.
No Peter I was hoping Yankees demote Desalvo to Single-A Tampa for punishment.
Apparently my “and the team feels that way” got Donna off on a whole post worth of tangents. Sorry about that. I’m not saying this is what the team “felt”, I’m saying that it’s the feel of the team. Like it “feels warm outside”. And you still didn’t address the lameness of Torre’s current state.
And you trying to saying that “Some of you spoiled brats need to grow up. When it comes to the Yankees, and baseball, you have no God-given rights…despite what you believe.” Um, as fans of a SPORTS FRANCHISE THAT WE PAY MONEY TO WATCH, SUPPORT, AND CHEER FOR that’s EXACTLY our right. So please stop with the holier than thou crap here and just face the fact that the team is flawed and there is more than just random luck at fault.
And your point that Mientkiewicz is a grind-it-out-type-o-guy means precisely crap as long as he keeps hitting 0.224. I’d rather have a whole team of Ecksteins than a defense first 1B.
“Michael, I do not disagree with you that the decline has been coming for some time”
Donna, then you haven’t been watching closely enough from 2002 onward. Yes, they may have won tons of games, but those teams from 96-2000 had good, deep pitching and a balanced team that they could survive the season and excell in the playoffs. You look at the 2002 Angels and you realize that the Yanks were beaten by their own old formula. Detroit reminded me of this last year, but they had even more homegrown pitching.
“You say the team is going nowhere this year. I will admit that I don’t think they’re going to win the AL East this year. However, will you be the first one on here in September eating humble pie if they turn things around and win the wild card? And have to go into the playoffs without Mo, because they gave up on him less than halfway into the season?”
I would love to think I will have to come here and eat humble pie when September rolls around. But with all due respect, I believe the scenario you propose, of winning the WC and going to the playoffs are so out of reach that it is hard for me to seriously even consider. But to answer your question, I will have no problem admitting I was wrong.
And it’s not about giving up on Mo. Right now, he’s a piece they don’t need. Because they are not winning ballgames.
Maybe all this turns around. Once the season gets into the first two weeks of June and if the situation is still status quo, management has to look into its best options. This is a move that might make sense, given Mo’s impending free agency.
But let me commend you on your optimism, I hope you turn out to be right and I turn out to be wrong.
Release Giambi, Damon, Abreu, Cairo, and Phelps. That’s right eat all that money. Giambi and Damon are untradeable has-beens and unacceptable as 2008 Yankees. Abreu, Cairo, and Phelps are gone after this year. ‘Thing is Giambi’s release wouldn’t cost the Yanks anything as they could move Igawa’s remaining $16M for 4 years ($4M/yr.), use $9M off the books from no longer paying Jaret Wright, Javier Vaaquez, and Randy Johnson, and another $1M letting go of Phelps ($0.6M) and Nieves ($0.4M). With Damon, he costs the Yanks $26M minus whatever the Yanks get back in insurance money for Pavano. Let’s say the insurance money is even just $8M (a fifth of Pavano’s $40M contract), Damon’s release costs the Yanks $18M.
Call up Kevin Thompson to be the RF (Cabrera becomes the CF), Shelley Duncan to be the DH, Andy Phillips to be the 1B, Kevin Reese to be the #4 OF, and a utility infielder from AAA. Let these kids who’d be making next to nothing play!!! Actually, Thompson isn’t a kid anymore, but he is still only 27. I could see the Yanks making a run for the wildcard with Cabrera, Thompson, Duncan, and Phillips, I really could. They’ll go for broke. These guys don’t even have to hit like gangbusters to make it interesting. Like Giambi, Damon, Abreu, Cairo, and Phelps have and would?
Maybe Thompson finishes with .285 BA, .360 OBP, 10 HR, 40 RBI, 15 SB. We’ll never know if he’s not given a chance.
“Michael, I do not disagree with you that the decline has been coming for some time�
Donna, then you haven’t been watching closely enough from 2002 onward. Yes, they may have won tons of games, but those teams from 96-2000 had good, deep pitching and a balanced team that they could survive the season and excell in the playoffs. You look at the 2002 Angels and you realize that the Yanks were beaten by their own old formula. Detroit reminded me of this last year, but they had even more homegrown pitching.
————————————————————Michael, please re-read what I said. I said that I do not disagree with you that the decline has been coming for some time. And, like you, I put the beginning of this decline squarely at the end of the 2001 season—in fact, I put it on the exact date they tossed a boatload of money at a ‘roided-up cheater to put him in pinstripes and keep him there long after he broke down.
You keep saying there’s no place for Mo on this team and he’s a piece they don’t need. I fail to understand how there’s no place on a team for a closer. Even the Devil Rays have one.
I am saying this here as it is the most recent post and will be seen.
Last season, the Yanks were behind the Red Sox 4 games at the All Star Break. In a little over two months they were 10 games above the Red Sox.
That’s a 14 game swing in a little over two months.
So spare me this “It’s all over” crapola being said over and over in here.
We have 4 full months left of baseball. It ain’t over, till it’s over!
If you are looking for a fall guy – Kevin Long is not him. You man view the coaching staff as partially responsible for the move to put a player in a position to compete – but the true accountability falls squarely on the players.
Yanks Batting
Runs – 5th
Hits – 8th
Avg – 6th
OBP – 5th
SLG – 13th
OPS – 6th
Yanks Pitching
ERA – 26th
K’s – 30th (K/9 – 30th)
BB’s – 7th (most) (BB/9 – 26th)
SVO – 29th (no Mo!)
WHIP – 23rd
OBA – 22nd
source: http://www.mlb.com
Still Long’s fault?
Few have called for Guidry’s head to roll and I suspect this is because it is more apparent that the pitchers are not doing their job. Gator is still a part of the decision. Still then, he’s not the fall guy because we all know if he were out there with the pearl in his hand, he simply would not tolerate the losing.
The batting stats do not account for the most important offensive aspect of winning which is timely hitting (e.g. ARod’s lead off double tonight). Long is doing his job, but when the money is on the line, the individual at the plate – bat in hand – that doesn’t produce is the ONLY person that should be held accountable.
The focus seemed to be shifting from winning, or catching whichever team you so choose, to not losing. When you play not to lose more than often the outcome is a loss.
In no way is this thing over. Not yet IMO. Marius makes a great point about the 14 game swing last year. Okay okay…it’s not last year, I get it.
I was born and raised in Maine which means I was all be forced to see (not watch…which would indicate choice) the Red Sox play for almost 30 years. No way can they continue on this pace. They are getting every bounce, most calls, and other teams are laying eggs in Fenway.
Meanwhile, I have watched the Yankees for just as long. I refuse to believe this team won’t fight. Maybe it takes Jeet getting up and calling attention to the internal issues. Jeter knows one thing better than anyone in baseball, and that one thing is winning. He is a winner through and through – knows what it takes and, along with Posada, I am certain they do not accept the current predicament.
Side note – How about Clemens’ press conference today. Media says he misunderstood the question but I have a feeling there was a past between he and the reporter asking the question, maybe Pete can speak to that.
I don’t understand why they keep sending guys out who are injured or have been in slums for most of the season. Why not just take Giambi, Abreu, Damon, and Vizcaino aside and explain to them that they are injured and are going to be put on the 15 day DL. Then call up Shelly Duncan, Britton, and a couple other guys. Start Melky in CF, Duncan in RF, and have Phelps DH. Seriously, what is the worst that could happen? They cannot hit any worse than the guys they are replacing and the defense may actually get better.
For alot of you guys saying “trade the team”, many of them have the 10/5 clause (10 years in the bigs, 5 with the team). That gives them a de-facto no trade clause.
Giambi, Mussina, Jeter, Posada, Rivera all have that clause. Now, these aren’t the people most want to trade (though some do), but it is certainly going to be a very difficult task to trade most of these guys with the contracts and age.
Sorry, Donna, you are right. I read your response wrong. My apologies.
Of course, teams need a closer. I am not saying there’s no place for him. It’s more like the play of this team has made no place for him to play. When you are losing games 7-2, where do you find a place for him? How is he a piece that they need?
My hypothetical argument is that the luxury that is someone like Mo can bring back something quite considerable in a trade if the trend continues as is for another 2-3 weeks. If we are a team out of contention then someone like a Scott Proctor or a Brian Bruney can fill this role for a couple of months.
Then, at the end of the season, you are very likely where you would be anyway if you kept Mariano Rivera for the entire season: trying to re-sign Mariano as a free agent.
Michael from Chicago – look at a calendar man. It is the end of may. The season is 49 games of 162. Thats less than one third over. You trade rivera now – the yanks are sending a statement that says we have no shot. We are done. Not the best statement to be sending your fans and your 200 million dollar payroll. Not to mention, who exactly is going to take the closer position – farnsworthless, Bruney? I realize rivera has three saves and is getting absolutely no work but if the season turns around and rivera isnt around – we are in huge trouble.
The players are older than the average team but they arent all grandfathers here. They are still plenty capable of playing to the back of their baseball cards. This team has been in the playoffs for eleven straight yrs. How much of a decline could the team have been on to still make the playoffs every yr?
This team just looks apathetic. They need a spark – a huge spark to jolt them out of this funk. I say just fire someone. People need to start fearing that their jobs are in jeopardy. Cashman is the perfect person to be the sacrificial lamb.
Michael – this was talked about at length in the game post. Some people felt Mo would feel betrayed. Many felt that it would be a good use of his talent to obtain some value for her services down the stretch and in the postseason with the full intent of signing him in the off season. He has mentioned several times that he wants to pitch in the new stadium in ‘09. It’s a win win…we get decent “help us now” talent, then get Mo back. It may be a goo vacation away from a losing environment, if our team doesn’t put it into high gear…soon…real soon.
Protor or Bruney could fill the void and a roster spot could be cleared for Britton.
One major contention was that he be traded to a NL team in the off chance he decides not to return to the Yanks.
Joe Torre has to go. Tony Pena or Don Mattingly should be hitting coach. Joe Girardi will be the next manager.
From there, you can make personnel changes. Matt DeSalvo and Philip Hughes should both be pitching in the minor leagues.
Roger Clemens is coming back. That will help. Melky Cabrera is comatose at the plate. Robinson Cano acts like he couldn’t care less, especially in the field. Bobby Abreu is in cyberspace.
But Torre has to go – and Mattingly is not ready. Girardi will bring some stability to the team and he knows pitching. Torre has completely worn out the bullpen. He blew out Ramiro Mendoza’s arm years ago and last year he blew out Ron Villone’s arm and Villone will never be the same. He also wore out Flash Gordon’s arm.
Torre destroys relief pitchers – get rid of him now.
Get Girardi on board and you will see an improvement.
NO! Please don’t fire me!
Fire Torre this team has flat out quit on him and the fans
Hi Dave,
I know the date. I said in two to three weeks (that would be the middle to third week of June), management should assess and make a plan for the trading deadline. Even then, you don’t make a move until mid-late July. I am not saying do it now because there might be a chance things will turn around.
Do I think it will turn around? Probably not. At a certain point, the smartest decision may be to make a move that has a significant long-term impact, even if it means giving up a peripheral shot at the WC and making a first round playoff appearance.
“How much of a decline could the team have been on to still make the playoffs every yr?”
Quite alot, actually. Playoff appearances notwithsatanding (please see the Atlanta Braves Baseball Club), the pitching staff has gotten worse and worse over the years. Whether it’s mismanagement of the staff or bad trades, it’s gotten thinner and thinner each year. The offense turns on and shuts off erratically. It’s more than just needing a spark. The playoff exits each year since 2004 speaks worlds to the weaknesses of the team.
Putting our season on wright’s shoulder was a testament to how thin our starting pitching was last yr. But I dont think our pitching in three weeks will be nearly as thin. We will have Wang, Moose, pettitte, clemen and Hughes as our top five. Then, there is always the possibility of kei igawa coming around and actually earnign some of his contract. And of course, there is clipard and I guess chase wright ready to pitch a couple of games as well. In the playoffs only needing four starters, we can just go with the four who are pitching the best at the moment and letting them start. I dont think u can say that exiting the playoffs in game five two yrs ago and then in game four last yr says that the team has been in a decline. We had won 97 games in the regular season and tied the mets for t he best record in baseball. We clinched the division long before the season was over unlike the yr before where we were fighting until the final days. I think with Hughes and clemens are starting pitching will be stronger than its been in yrs. There is absolutely no reason to trade Mo right now. Even if we have the slightest outside chance of making the playoffs, Mo will be able to help us more than his present trade value ever could. I dont really get the rationale behind such a decision.
I dunno why this team sucks so much right now. I have no idea why our bullpen looks like it holds a collection of the baseball worlds biggest scrubs. I have no idea why it seems like every night there is a big call that goes against us. The only thing I know is the management needs to find some way to spark this team. tHEY NEED TO GET out of this “team slump” before it becomes a season long slump. How much longer can this go on before people stop calling it a slump and just start calling the yankees a horrible team.
Is this the Oprah blog? All these expressions of ‘it will break my heart but,’ or so and so ‘would feel betrayed,’ etc.
Fascinating angle for a troll to take. Todd Jones blows game against TB. Boston closer gives up 2 hits, a walk and a run, 23 pitches. Check out the pitching line on Game 3 of the 2001 ALDS. Check out the Sept. 2005 stats of ML relievers, those who were deciding factors in 1 run games. How many of them pitched more than 1 inning even in 2006, and of those, how many are now on the DL, out for surgery for a year and a half, or have experienced periods on the DL. There is no so-called closer ‘this week’ about whom it can reliably be said, “he is the best on Tuesdays”-
curious why anyone feels anxious to do so. Some come up with cute definitions like “so and so’s the best 1-2-3, or the best conversion rate or the most this or that” leaving out the more important stats that rank degree of difficulty-. The better ones have all shown vulnerability. While Mariano has shown vulnerability at the beginning of this season, it’s been shrieked and magnified by ecstatic guys at ESPN, etc. (which is where income is generated for the reporters).Mariano has the worst agent in baseball and baseball blogs have lots of trolls. Either that or I’ll go back to my original thought that there are no good Yankee blogs.
To those who are suggesting trading Mariano Rivera: It also makes sense for the Yankees to keep him and let him go as a free agent. If they do this, they are compensated with draft picks by the MLB. Considering Mo’s track record, he will probably be classified as a Type A free agent. This would give the Yankees a first round pick and a sandwich pick between the first and second rounds, which would probably help us a lot down the road. I don’t see teams offering as much as this for Mo given his age.
People who think that this team can trade players aren’t thinking normally. Giambi is a 35 year old player coming off steroids who cant hit to the opposite field. Damon has no arm and because of his huge ego wont allow to be put on the DL. Matsui has 2 awesome weeks where you cant get him out followed by 3 weeks that he cant hit the water if he fell out of a canoe. Abreu looks beyond lost and is showing that the HR derby really did change him as a player. Those are four players that are completely untradable. Jeter, Posada, A-Rod and Cano are players to build around. Wang, Hughes, Pettitte are a future rotation. Mussina is wearing down even though he really isnt the problem. Farnsworth, Villone, Myers are worthless.
This is a team that cannot be helped. Firing Torre isnt the answer. This season is lost and we need to look at the future and be patient for now a few years. Big contract wise Abreu and Clemens goes this year (maybe even A-Rod and Pettitte even though both should come back)with Posada and Rivera re-uped on new contracts. Giambi, Pavano, Farnsworth are after that. The re-building process can start but people have to realize that doing anything drastic this year is not rational due to cumbersome contracts and the afforadble players being hardly any good.
After this year I think we only have to go through about two rough years. But this team is very similar to the Knicks. A team of stars with no chemistry and an overall laughing stock of the league. We will come back soon, but if anyone thinks the trading deadline is going to change anything is seriously nuts
“Is this the Oprah blog? All these expressions of ‘it will break my heart but,’ or so and so ‘would feel betrayed,’ etc.”
Susan Mullen, resorting to ad hominems in making an argument is hardly sophisticated. I am not a troll, I am a lifelong Yankee fan.
Your post, from what I can gather, seems to infer that posters on this blog who have floated the idea of trading Mariano Rivera (I include myself in this group) are giving up on him.
That’s hardly the argument that I am making. Mo is still the closer I want to see on this team. This team will not make the playoffs IMHO, and if the trend continues on 31 July, I make the argument, as do others, that it would perhaps be in the Yankees’ best interest to get excellent young return on an excellent player. The reason being that Marinao Rivera is a FA at season’s end and has already stated the Yanks are in the pool with all other MLB teams to sign him for his services.
It’s hypothetical, I hope they turn their season around, but it is a move, like many others, that intrigues me.
Mariano is still outstanding as a closer and I believe his demise has been greatly exaggerated. But the team’s demise has not. Where does a team play a closer when you they are not producing enough save situations or handing leads over in the late innings? This has zero to do with a decline in Mariano Rivera’s abilities.
Hello, schizophrenic Yankees fans! It’s bedlam in here, and you’re all trying to figure out who’s to blame! Well I dunno, things are pretty screwed up in your neck of the woods; I’ll just try to give ya’ll a little reality check.
1) Your pitching staff might get alot better very soon, when everyone is healthy. Why are you trying to dump your average pitching (Mussina)? So you can promote more DeSalvos? You’re not going to get more than one pitching prospect at this point, and you’d have to pay off alot of his salary if there were a trade. Sit on your hands, please.
2) Joe Torre, not the problem. I’m still waiting for someone to name the baseball genius who can do something with this personnel situation. It sure as hell ain’t Larry Bowa. If you get rid of Torre before you make a trade or two, you’re not being fair to him, or to yourselves. I don’t care about your stupid must-win philosophy in saying that, so maybe you’ll feel like I’m attacking you by even suggesting it. Please get over it.
3) Damon is not going to be ‘released’.
4) Trading Rivera should be considered. He has more value elsewhere right now, and if you can’t get your middle relief together he’s got no real role. And this is a trend that started as soon as QuanGorMo fell apart. A free agent can fill his shoes in the offseason (cuz he AIN’T signing again).
That’s all! Good luck fellas! Don’t admit to steroids in the papers!
Guys giambi is not the waste of space that people are making him out to be. No one is hitting right now except jetyer, po, arod and matsui sometimes. Why is giambi the one who is getting crushed by the fans? How many players in the majors will finish the season with a 410 obp and 35 homers. Who cares what his average is if he leads the league in on base percentage?
l love how over the off season i constantly found flaws with the team like completely relying on pavano and igawa as starters while discarding RJ for practically nothing in return. Bringing in a weak hitting lefty first baseman to a lineup chalk ful of lefties while moving out a power hitting righty who was top ten in mvp voting in 04 and 05. Spent almost nothing on the bench for a team that has a 200 million dollar payroll. Barely improved a bullpen which was weak at best last yr. And every time i critisized some cashman supporting fan would tell me how all of this money is being taken off the books which can be spent to patch up the yankee holes by thge trade deadline. Now all i hear is how the yanks certainly wont be fixed by the deadline and shuld trade their all s tar players. What a joke? This is why i thought cutting the payroll is soo foolish for a team like this. If ur going to spend on a payroll far above the luxury tax boundary u might as well do it right and spend enuff to fix all the holes from the yr before. What is the point of cutting 20 mil off this payroll and crearing gaping holes that come back to haunt the team later when people are like how can a GM preict all this? A fan could predict some of it becuz it was soo glaringly obvious cash didnt address this problems in the off season.
I think it was Michael Ray Richardson who said “the ship be a ‘sinken”
Pete at what point do the Yankees look at the team and say we now have a 3 year plan where we will look to get younger and lighter in salary.
Everyone, both fans and media are lamenting the team and their performance.
So the question is when will Cashman make a move to change up the composition of the team that everyone agrees isn’t very good?
C’mon Cashman!
Andrew 33—
It’s my opinion that Cashman reached that conclusion last year. I think he thought he could do that during the time where the older more expensive players were still able to play and keep the Yankees in contention. It just hasn’t worked out to plan because those players haven’t been able to produce in the first full year of that plan.
pete,
your knock on desalvo is way off-base. he is one of very few yankees this season that have performed as expected or better. i’m not saying he’s the next roger clemens, but look at what he did for this team. we were short starters, and noone expected him to do anything. his first game, he went 7 innings, but lost due to the crappy bullpen. his second game, he had a similar performance and got the W. he then had a bad start and a bad bullpen performance, but i really give him no blame for last night’s loss. he let in 3 runs in just under 5 innings, which isn’t all that bad. the yankee offense needs to wake up, b/c if they are expecting AA-ball pitchers to hold teams to zero runs per game, they’ll never win a game. there’s a lot of blame to go around these days, but i just don’t see how desalvo deserves any of it.
Firing Cashman is like killing the messenger.
Two years ago, he was going to leave the Yankees because he saw the present scenario coming in one form or another. He wanted to end the organizational gridlock created by over reliance on long-term, no-trade contracts for older free agent players and trades for the same category of player at the expense of the farm system. He wanted to get younger, cheaper, more athletic and more flexible to deal with injury, change and underperformance. You cannot do that and simultaneously fix every current problem in the lineup, bullpen or rotation.
Cash was not responsible for Giambi’s contract. Cash would not have given Bernie the over long contract that just expired. A lot of the pro Bernie psychos out there conveniently forget how bad Bernie was in CF the last two years because he could not run or throw any more. His contract had become Giambi-like. Abreu saved last regular season with his OBP and patience. His problem this year is of Knoblauchian proportions – no reasonable person puts that on Cashman. Cano is still young and by himself is not the reason the Yanks are in the cellar. Igawa is either a work in progress or a big failure. But Igawa is not the cause of the problems here either.
Bad bench? Wil Nieves is proof that even Cashman ain’t perfect. But having Giambi requires cheap, imperfect solutions, e.g., Minky and Mr. Rule 5, Josh Phelps. Needing to carry 12 pitchers because your rotation is too old and too unreliable also robs you of a bench option. At least Jared Wright and Randy and his overpriced innings are gone.
Injuries are just part of baseball. Unfortunately, the older your players are the more likely it is that there will be multiple, even simultaneous problems. Hence, get younger. To revitalize the farm, Cash drafted pitching first and is going to move on to position players. But after long years of neglect the farm does not change over night.
Cashman’s plan was clear and correct: you must stop the dysfunctional behavior and in so doing stop the Madness of King George. Firing Cash now when he is in the middle of doing what he said he would do – - and which clearly needs to be done – - is either the ultimate hypocrisy or the ultimate self-destructive act. The team that is in the cellar today was headed there for years and it will take years to get the team robust, balanced, consistent and aggressive again. Firing Cashman and returning to the old ways will only postpone restoring the ability to win.
muphydog—
You said it much better than I could.
Alas, Murphydog, Cashman will not get the time to complete his plan. Steinbrenner never has shown much patience and he’s getting older. That’s a recipe for less patience, not more. (Remember Leon Hess of the Jets?)
I can’t tell you whether Cashman’s plan would have worked. The jury is out on him as a judge of talent. We are several years from knowing which of the prospects will pan out. I believe there’ll be a different GM by then.
Fans should worry about what follows Cashman—not the next GM alone but the STRUCTURE. Having “tried” concentrated control under Cashman, the Boss will likely revert to what “worked” before. That is, input from all his “baseball people”. You remember them, don’t you? The anonymous whisperers in Tampa who always knew better than the GM and the manager and who could never be held accountable for their advice. If that happens, watch out! Expect the prospects to be be shipped out for more quick fixes.
For those who want to axe Cashman, then, beware the old adage: be careful what you wish for; you may get it.
You can fire Cashman…...just add five more years to the rebuilding project. George (not many people want to work for George Steinbrenner) will hire a flunky for a GM, somebody he can control, they will trade off the few good prospects they have to “win now”, and the team will get even older. Not the way to go.
Sometimes, you have to take a step back in order to go forward.
As Murph says, who among this blog would have predicted guys like Abreu and Cano would hit 100 points UNDER what they hit last year.
I am going to say it again, a HUNDRED points under what they hit last year. Think about that for a moment.
What GM worth his salt would “know” that would happen?
There is no question Cashman has made his share of mistakes. However, his hits FAR outweigh his misses.
Saved 2005 with the acquisitions of Small and Chacon and he forced Wang and Cano onto the roster. Last year, the Abreu trade and not giving up on Melky Cabrera was a major reason why they won.
Its not PlayStation. You can’t just trade and dump salaries at a whim.
You want to DFA everybody? No problem. If you have 100 million dollars in “dead money” (paying for guys who are no longer on the roster), you might as well put out a Class A team, because the team isn’t going to have a 300 million dollar payroll.
In fact, the Yankees did “fire everybody”, once upon a time. From 1986-1990, the Yankees paid more in “dead money” than any team in baseball. How did that work out? Not very well.
To judge the Sheffield and Johnson trades today is flat out dumb since, the returns on those deals were for the future. So, why not wait and see if any prospects come out of those deals before ripping them? If guys like Humberto Sanchez, Kevin Whelan and/Ohlendorf and the others, help this team in the future, or are packaged for other assets that help the team, wouldn’t that be good for the Yankees? Its WAY too early to bang on those deals.
As Murph said, Cashman saw this coming two years ago which, IMO, despite George’s bluster, is why he won’t be fired.
While some are surprised with “how fast” this has happened, most experienced baseball people would tell you the Yankees have been dodging this bullet for a few years. Its now hit and hit hard and fast. That’s how it usually happens.
Instead of crying “fire everybody” nonsense, why don’t you take the long view of things and discuss realistic solutions, rather than nonsense?
Half the people in this blog sound like Red Sox fans. Which, on second thought, they probably are.
This is the PERFECT season to begin fixing what’s broken. If they are smart, that should be the course of action. Use the trade deadline to begin the process, by being ACTIVE sellers, rather than tearing down what little assets they have for another failed run at a title.
This team can “turn it around tomorrow” and they STILL aren’t a championship team. They have too many flaws (which is why they won’t “turn it around”, IMO). The goal is to make them a championship team again.
You don’t do that trading for more horrible contracts (Todd Helton) or DFA’ing the entire team, leaving you with more “dead money” than any team in baseball. All that does is slowdown, rather than speed up, the rebuilding process.
Cashman has to do three things right now:
1. Be the first guy in line for Mark Texiera. Texas is going to trade him at some point. He’s the PERFECT guy to add to this team. Under 30, switch hitter, great both offensively and defensively. High character guy. They have the assets to get that deal done, if Texas puts him on the market, IMO.
2. Gain a CLEAR consensus as to who will manage the team in 2008, Girardi or Mattingly. Its important because you make moves to tailor the club to the strengths of the manager you choose.
3. Have a LONG talk with the Boss over the one contract they MAY have to eat in order to fix this team in a more timely manner…..Jason Giambi’s. He’s an embarrassment on and off the field for this franchise and his contract is the anchor that holds back a lot of what can be done.
If you want to speed up the process, somehow, someway, they have to get rid of Jason Giambi. If they can, it opens up a lot of other opportunities for them. For example, they can DH Damon, sign BOTH Hunter and Ichiro in the off-season (they would have the money to do so), and shore up a lot of holes on this team, without giving up a lot of assets in return. Think about it for a minute. Add Tex, Hunter and Ichiro, still have enough young pitching to develop a solid staff, and you rid yourself of Jason Giambi. Challenging, but doable, IMO.
There are ways to fix this for the future. However, if you fire the GM, all you accomplish is setting the timetable back, which is the wrong way to go.
Give 220 million and all the resources to any of 12 GM’s and you dont think they can do a better job than Cashman? Lets see Beane try it.
Like any GM is going to step in here and trade Hughes and Tabata for 34 yr old quick fixes.
It may be time for a house cleaning.
“The jury is out on him as a judge of talent.”
No, Cashman’s version of “talent” is Kei Igawa. And Cashman thought getting a cripple back in return was good value for Sheffield. He had his chance to have complete control and we get Bobby Abreu afraid to swing the bat and feeling for the wall 50 ft away so he doesn’t bump his poor little head. God forbid he actually hustles and puts forth some effort.
Fire Cashman and bring in somebody else to restructure. Don’t give control back to Tampa (although they were no worse than Cashman), but bring in fresh blood. And let’s not forget that Brian Cashman wanted Vizcaino, which is a firing offense.
Giambi is totally all thats wrong with this team right now. Hes not pitching enough innings and hes blowing leads when they have them.
“To judge the Sheffield and Johnson trades today is flat out dumb since, the returns on those deals were for the future. So, why not wait and see if any prospects come out of those deals before ripping them? If guys like Humberto Sanchez, Kevin Whelan and/Ohlendorf and the others, help this team in the future, or are packaged for other assets that help the team, wouldn’t that be good for the Yankees? Its WAY too early to bang on those deals.”
Quit the brown-nosing of Cashman. Sanchez is a chronic injury problem, and will be on and off the DL his whole career. Ohlendorf can barely get AAA hitters out and his control has been awful. It’s far from too early to question those deals. The Daily News had a good article on May 20 questioning Cashman’s judgement on those trades. Any decent GM can do what Cash has done so far and would probably do much better. It’s not a Tampa vs Cashman battle anymore.
That Kei Igawa deal, along with hanging on to Pavano until the bitter end (And you can’t convince me its a total coincidence who he kept and who he dumped this off season. Sheffield and Johnson in particular were dumped for whoever the hell was offered and Pavano and Farnsworth are still here.) are huge mistakes that are inexcusable.
How Do , Firing Cashman would be a Grave Mistake. He’s trying to build up the farm system again . The Yankees have to many over paid older players . Building the farm system is our future. Cashman started that last winter. No one saw this team folding like this . I say let Cashman rebuild it .
“Quit the brown-nosing of Cashman. Sanchez is a chronic injury problem, and will be on and off the DL his whole career.”
Are you saying it wasn’t wise to trade for the next Jaret Wright?
“Any decent GM can do what Cash has done so far and would probably do much better. It’s not a Tampa vs Cashman battle anymore.” I fear you misunderstand what will follow. You won’t get “any decent GM” in full control, responsible and accountable for his actions. You will get rule-by-committee. And, yes, it can be worse. I’m not a Cashman fan, but I like the old (and, I suspect, future) system even less.
Enough is enough—
In both the Sheffield and Randy Johnson deals, Cashman was not in the position of strength. First, Johnson ASKED to be dealt. I don’t think Cashman would have traded him otherwise (though he may be very happy he had the opportunity to do so). Johnson was specific about where he would go. He was having back surgery. How much more do you think anyone could have gotten for him?
Sheffield was coming off a wrist injury AND has a reputation as a bad-mouther to boot AND wanted a contract extension. Not a lot of teams want to deal with that. Cashman actually was lucky because Leyland had dealt successfully with Sheffield in the past and was willing to take a chance. Since Sheffield did not want to play 1B and was also not willing to play for just 1 more year, he became very expendable, especially because ABREU DID THE JOB LAST SEASON, AND HIS ROLE THIS SEASON WAS NOT GOING TO CHANGE FROM THAT. I did not see an awful lot of teams clamoring for Sheffield, did you? Making great offers to Cashman for him?
Cashman relied on his scouts for Igawa and based on their reports thought they had either a good #4 or #5 or a good long relief guy. Cashman NEVER indicated Igawa was supposed to be more than that. He may still prove to be just that, but maybe not. We’ll see.
I thought Cashman showed signs of learning from the past regarding pitchers by not signing any of the mediocre pitchers on the FA market for the long-term contracts they wanted. It was not the year to do so. If the right pitcher was available, the Yankees would be all over it.
SJ44 is correct in saying that the Yankees have been dodging this particular bullet for a couple of years now, being able to pull victory from the jaws of defeat for 2 seasons in a row (but without enough left for the post-season). With some good moves from Cashman (Small, Chacon, Wang, Cano, Abreu), some luck, and also production from their talent base. Cashman gambled his talent would still be there during the re-growth process, and they let him down. It doesn’t mean his plan is wrong.
What GM wouldn’t come in here and keep building up the farm system? Dont make it seem like Cashman is the only one who recognizes it needs to keep getting built.
Where was he from 99-2004? When the system became barren? He had nothing to do with that???
Dont make it seem like the next GM will come in here and start unloading prospects and just signing any 35 yr old free agent. It wont happen.
The Redsox already beat three of top contending teams in baseball. Angels, Tigers and Indians.. As a Yankees Fan, I’m sorry to say It’s their year to win World series this year.. I’m going throw up when man Terry Francona’s is the manager for the Allstar game and seating in the dugout in Yankees Stadium
And when Arizona offered us nothing for Johnson, (and please, spare me the “utility player of the future” nonsense) Cashman should have said “tough you know what Randy. You’re under contract to us for one more year. If you don’t want to play, I suggest you retire.
And spending that kind of money on a man your scouts tell you might be a long reliever is indefensible.
All World Series champs are crowned in May “dr”. Thanks for reminding all of us of that fact.
...too many ex-managers can not be helping. Don’t any of you have jobs? What would happen if your manager’s manager brought in 3 (4?) people that use to do what you currently do?
Too many cooks.
That and buying old, drug infested players.
I saw here that you (yanks) have drafted 700 players and none have made it to the majors… that can’t be right… can it? The last one is Jeter. I find that impossible. I don’t follow it that closely, but there is no way that is true.
==
How Do , Remember Cashman did not panick and sign Zito for 7 years . I say let him try to DUMP some of the Over-Paid stiffs that we have Damon-Farnsworth-Mussina-Abreu-Vizcaino-Myers etc. Nobody is going to trade for Giambi . Hopefully they keep Cashman and he gets the rebuilding started . Very Nice !!!
...and investing fan’s money (28,000,000 pro rata) for a minor league pitcher that hasn’t pitched in the majors for 10 months…. Would you all have done it?
If there was a Pro’s and Con’s listing of this transaction… was there a Con’s side? In retrospect it was the tarnishing of a below average career of Suzie Waldman, but that is incidental.
Go Tampa.
Good post Murphydog, you nailed it. Cashman wanted to rebuild sooner than the organization let him, now we’re in limbo. Hey the blow sox lived through a crappy year last year and now look at them. Problem is it will be hard for Cash and the Yankees to be sellers at the deadline due to public scrutiny and media abuse. The off season, all bets are off.
Maybe we can trade Mussina for a reliever and the back up catcher of the future.
Cashman doesnt have the first clue about pitching talent. He hasnt brought in a good pitcher in here. Well, ever.
What starter has he brought in that worked out?
If they are 14 games out in July, you can bet they will be sellers.
“I saw here that you (yanks) have drafted 700 players and none have made it to the majors… that can’t be right… can it? ”
I didn’t make the majors after being drafted in 2004? Huh.
To the idiot that wrote this:
“Call up Kevin Thompson to be the RF (Cabrera becomes the CF), Shelley Duncan to be the DH, Andy Phillips to be the 1B, Kevin Reese to be the #4 OF, and a utility infielder from AAA. Let these kids who’d be making next to nothing play!!!”
Thompson = 27
Duncan = 27
Phillips = 30
Reese = 29
If you want to see those AAAA “kids”, get in your car and drive to Scranton.
“phil hughes said:
“I saw here that you (yanks) have drafted 700 players and none have made it to the majors… that can’t be right… can it? �
I didn’t make the majors after being drafted in 2004? Huh.
”
—> that is my point – I saw the fact posted here this weekend. could be currently not on active roster… dunno.
Face facts.
The “kids” at Scranton arent the answer.
I forgot all the “kids” and farm system products Boston had starting for them.
don’t worry Fenway, in the not too distant future the rotation may be almost all home grown:
Hughes
Kennedy
Wang
Clippard
Chamberlain
sprinkle in Johan Santana just for giggles.
“Firing Cashman is like killing the messenger.”
“Cashman’s plan was clear and correct: you must stop the dysfunctional behavior and in so doing stop the Madness of King George. Firing Cash now when he is in the middle of doing what he said he would do – – and which clearly needs to be done – – is either the ultimate hypocrisy or the ultimate self-destructive act.”- murphydog
“Me thinks thou dost protest too much” shakespeare
murphydog-
it’s too much of a coincidence that cashman is given 100% control and the yankees find themselves in last place on memorial day weekend.
i don’t object to cashman staying with the yankees. i object to him having 100% control.
he had two mandates.one was to win this year. the second was to prepare for the future.
the yankees lose 30- 40 million if they don’t get playoff money. they need this money to pay for the development plan . the yankee gm has to both win now and also lay a foundation for the future. winning now provides the money to pay for the future.
i noticed gene michael is closely watching clemens progress, so michael is in the loop. u.s. presidents have been older than gene michael. would you object to having michael and cashman sharing power with michael making the final personnel decisions and cashman doing most of the legwork because he’s younger. cashman would also have total control of the minor league system.
cashman’s stenghth has always been as a valuable management team member and not a managment team leader. he’s never been a leader before.
i have a bias towards gms that have played the game especially if the gm is in a spartan front office .theo has 4 times the amount of consulting help cashman does. he has bill james. he has allan baird the former royals gm. he has 3-4 asst gms who he delegates to, and he has lucchino who is a totally ruthless but extremely knowledgeable lifetime baseball front office shark above him taking care of really big picture things.
the yankees have brian cashman being 100 % in charge. theo is not 100% in charge. why should cashman? they are the same guy except cashman is older and less educated.
i’m advocating cashman being stripped of his 100% power and being reassigned to a more productive role. i would not want to throw away cashman’s front office experience. the” younger and cheaper” plan should continue as part of the overall plan with cashman in charge of it. someone else would be in charge of winning now.
gene michael would be that guy now. in the fall asearch would be made for someone who would be in charge of winning now. i’d like to see a person of color get this job. the yankees need some diversity in the front office. people seem to forget the contributions bob watson made to the championship run. i’d like to see david wilder and michael hill interviewed for this job. i’d be happy if one of them got it.
hill’s resume fron the boston globe:
Michael Hill, the Florida Marlins’ assistant GM the last three seasons, also is expected to be interviewed in the coming days. Hill, named to Black Enterprise magazine’s 2003 Hot List of African-American executives under age 40, is a celebrated 1993 graduate of Harvard, where as a senior he was elected class marshal, led the football team in rushing, and captained the baseball team.
the yankees need a cutting edge management model to move into the future. the gm role needs to be redefined as part of a management team where the gm is not 100 % in control. this new team has to have some diversity in it to understand the realities of the marketplace.
this season can be saved. michael is the man for the job now. cashman needs to share power. cashman’s future plans stay. yankees win this year. it’s a win /win for every one.
“How Do , Remember Cashman did not panick and sign Zito for 7 years . I say let him try to DUMP some of the Over-Paid stiffs that we have Damon-Farnsworth-Mussina-Abreu-Vizcaino-Myers etc.”
But those stiffs are guys Cashman wanted! He wanted Mussina re-upped, wanted Abreu and specifically asked for Vizcaino in the RJ deal. He bares a great deal of responsibility for this mess.
If one of those homegrown guys becomes a reliable #2 type pitcher consider it lucky.
To expect a 5 man rotation to be homegrown is beyond ludicrous.
Be happy with one guy.
enough is enough
May 29th, 2007 at 9:27 am
“How Do , Remember Cashman did not panick and sign Zito for 7 years . I say let him try to DUMP some of the Over-Paid stiffs that we have Damon-Farnsworth-Mussina-Abreu-Vizcaino-Myers etc.�
But those stiffs are guys Cashman wanted! He wanted Mussina re-upped, wanted Abreu and specifically asked for Vizcaino in the RJ deal. He bares a great deal of responsibility for this mess.
_
funny I don’t remember anyone talkin’ crap about Abreu last season ? WHAT’S W/ THE MONDAY MORNING QUARTERBACKING, Moose just lost it, Vizcaino is hurt, he never pitched this bad in Arizona. And please RJ needed to go. This team is in big trouble that’s all I know.
If Torre and Cashman were fired, so what? What are they gonna do for the rest of this year, become manager and g.m. for another team midseason? Are you “don’t/ you can’t fire them” idiots serious? Torre would probably retire and Cashman will be sought after by any number of teams after this year, fine if teams line up to get him. Let’s see Cashman with a $60M payroll instead of a $200+M payroll. No, Arizona or whoever won’t have $28M “earmarked” for Clemens or anyone else for June on. I wanna see the great Cashman g.m. a World Series winner after the Yankees.
I can’t see the team collapsing under new guys. The through 2007 only manager would probably be Bowa and the through 2007 only g.m. would probably be Gene Michael, the REAL architect of the four World Championships besides Watson, not Steinbrenner pal-daddy’s son Cashman a lucky fraud twit who got his foot in the door with the Yanks through his dad being a fellow horse-owner and buddy of Steinbrenner at their horse farm. A total “Who my dad knows?” job acquistion.
B.t.w. the Yanks made Torre and Cashman, not vice versa.
Cashman is like the star movie producer and Torre is like his star movie director who put out a string of hits but have put out one so-so or lemon after another. 2001 and 2003 were so-sos, 2002, 2004, 2005, and 2006 were lemons.
If Casey Stengel, the greatest Yankee manager and perhaps the greatest manager of all time, can be fired, Torre can be. Cashman has too many horrible signings of his own doing without George’s meddling to keep his job after 2007. Pavano ($40M wasted), Wright ($21M wasted), Igawa ($46M wasted), Weaver ($?M wasted), Vasquez ($?M wasted). Those five alone were $150M or so of nothing. Ted Lilly the guy Cashman traded for Weaver, was, is, and always will be better than all of them. I mean seriously look at Lilly’s career, he has been the best.
He lucked out with Aaron Small and Shawn Chacon in 2005. He also lucked out with Brown getting hurt and Wang getting the call up, cuz Cashman would’ve never called up Wang had Brown been healthy all year. He probably would’ve traded Wang for who knows who.
Ooooof!
I know last nite Peter reported the Yanks said Giambi wasn’t injured, but ESPN news is reporting his heel may need a cortisone shot.
So the special kicks and meds didn’t do the trick.
now cortisone. we’re a hop-skip-and-a-jump from surgery and a long rehab.
Buddy,
I don’t think the kids is the answer but Shelly Duncan is tearing up AAA and can play RF and 1B, he should be on the bench instead of Melky, who is clearly a minor leaguer.
oops. sorry about that – coding error.
Can Shelly Duncan play 3 OF positions?
Melky is almost a decade younger than him.
Should Shelly Duncan get a shot here? Sure, why not. But lets not think hes any answer either.
I think Pete’s being a little harsh with DeSalvo, but he’s right about this team getting old at the same time. If A-Rod walks (likely) and Abreu’s option isn’t picked up (more likely) and Posada’s resigned (probably a lock) after the season, the Yankees will have over-33 players at C, SS, CF, LF, and DH. That’s a big chunk of your lineup in the “decline phase.” And from the look of things, I’m not sure there’s that much out there at 3b, 1b, and RF in the free agent market to make up for this decline.
What we’re seeing now is chickens coming home to roost. After 2001, the Yankees forestalled their decline phase by reloading with free agents. Each year, the future was mortgaged for just one more winning season by signing some guy on the wrong side of 30. Well, this year the debt needs to be paid. All of you who want to trade Giambi and Damon: it’s not happening (Giambi has a full no trade clause, Damon has a partial no trade clause). All of you who want to “get younger”: it’s not happening (yet), the Yankees will resign Posada after this season and they’ll resign Rivera.
I agree he is not “the� answer but he has great power & is a big right handed bat which balances the lineup. Melky is batting .230 and has no power.
He’s also in the minors at 27. Likely for the same reason everyone else is in the minors at 27.
Giambi and Damon are owed $26M each after this year.
Trade Igawa’s remaining $16M.
$9M off the books no longer paying Johnson, Vasquez, and Jaret Wright.
$1M off the books letting go of Phelps ($0.6M for ‘07) and Nieves ($0.4M).
That takes care of Giambi’s $26M.
Now to Damon’s $26M. ‘Say the Yanks collect $8M from insurance on Pavano’s $40M contract (a fifth of the worth).
That’s $8M towards paying off Damon, $18M to go. Abreu bought out then let go of clears $13M ($15M he’s making this year – $2M buyout). That’s another $13M towards paying off Damon. Eat the remaining $5M, big deal.
Cabrera starts in CF next year for $500K. Jermaine Dye can be signed for a year and $7M for RF, he’d be the righthanded power to complement A-Rod. Matsui could DH. The Yanks trade for a LF or give 27-year old Kevin Thompson who has an arm, excellent range, and speed a chance for $400K at least for the first two months. He can be showcased along with Cabrera, although ideally both do the job.
Trade Dmaon. Trade Giambi. Trade Abreu. Trade Igawa.
Great decisions!
I hope we get back Santana, Webb, Halladay, K Rod and Nathan for them!
Bobby Abreu has had about 9 yrs of 300 and 100 ribbies and you want to replace him with Kevin Thompson?
A 27 yr old career minor leaguer?
Knee jerk much?
There was a reason that DeSalvo was DFA during the off season.
Really enjoy Pete’s blogging and a lot of the comments from the regulars, but there are too many over-aggressive morons who spout out nonsense and attack each other. So, so long -I’ll stick to the mainpage and ope a bunch of you seek therapy in a less public venue.
Dustin McGowan? The Yankees couldn’t beat ROSE MCGOWAN!!!
The best decision of the winter still remains Bernies decision not to try to make the team.
He’d be batting 3rd right now and playing every single night.
And he’d allow Damon to spend 15 days on the DL. Same with Giambi to heal up.
If the Yankees do not turn it around enough to convince the rest of the league that they’re still capable of winning (whether or not they actually get into the playoffs, but at least they need to be challenging), there are going to be fewer free agents who will be willing to deal with the pressure of New York, no matter what the salary being offered. There will be a few who will still take the money, but it will have to be even more money than has been the case. I think the Yankees are going to have to get things done via trade, and that’s not going to be easy, either.
Doreen,
Free Agents play where they get the most money.
Pressure of NY and all that other stuff is cured by a few 0’s.
Trade Damon, Giambi, and Abreu? And please tell me what teams in their right minds will take on these unproductive guys with their Steinbrenner salaries? Good luck finding even a single team!
This may have been mentioned but I can’t focus enough to read every post..
Why aren’t any eyes of blame falling on hitting coach Kevin Long?
I can understand not being able to help the veteran players like Abreu or Giambi, since they’re stuck in their own habits.
But why can’t he seem to help Melky or Cano, whose MLB careers are just begining..
Seems like hes not doing his job. What are everybodys thoughts?
DeSalvo is a borderline non-prospect who is only in the rotation because Rasner and Karstens got their bones broken, Pavano is being Pavano, Igawa is being deconstructed and reassembled, Hughes popped, and Wright got sent to the sanitarium by the Sox. That’s six starters who stood in front of DeSalvo on the depth chart.
We’re not starting DeSalvo because he’s good, but because we’re desperate. Now that Clippard is in the rotation, I doubt there’s anyone left in the minors who would be any better. That he gave us two great starts against the Mariners was a small miracle.
Buddy: be happy with one guy, aim for three or four.
The Tigers have three solid starters in their rotation from their own system. Twins have several. The Braves were pretty damn dominant over the course of more than a few years with mostly homegrown starters. It absolutely can be done, and I think we’re going to more than get the job done here once these guys take their lumps and develop further at the major league level.
What continues to scare me is that, other than Tabata, we don’t have position players coming up to fill in for most of the guys who are getting old. The more some of these guys slump, though, the less likely it seems that we can get a top prospect, even at the deadline. Add to that Cashman’s not-so-great track record with megadeals, and I worry.
Then again, would keeping one veteran starter (Andy), signing a young-ish guy in the offseason, and having Wang/Hughes/Clippard fill out the staff next year, while slowly mixing in our own youth with what the market can give us PLUS our veterans who we don’t want going anywhere not be a bad plan?
Do we really need to “try” Kevin Thompson? Isn’t it likely we’ll get the same result we’ve gotten every other time we tried a career minor leaguer?
randy1:
I’m not angry, just frustrated. So although this post may read mad, it’s not.
1. OK, Shakespeare’s always nice, but I have a different quote for you. “The fault lies not in the stars but in ourselves.”
Cashman doesn’t hit, throw or catch. Only the players play the game. Cashman and Torre are not responsible for teaching remedial baseball. The players are not producing. They are playing like stiffs. Established pitchers and some relievers won’t or can’t throw strikes, professional hitters don’t hit and big league outfielders don’t catch the ball. Let’s start with Shame on The Players and go from there. After a player makes $15 to $20 million a year on a no-trade, guaranteed contract, I dare you to find me some extra motivation for them.
2. I agree that Cash having control and being in the cellar are not a coincidence. Cashman has been telling George for well over two years now that this death spiral has been coming and that something’s got to give. He’s the one who stepped up and demanded that everyone behave accountably instead of continuing the bad ways. Turning around a big battleship like the Yankees doesn’t happen quickly.
You cannot reasonably expect Brian Cashman, Gene Michael or anybody else for that matter, to halt the momentum of bad planning that got us to where we are today in one, two or three years. Cash has already rid us of supposed “future is now” players like Sheff, R.J., and Jared Wright, and he let the lovable but marginal Bernie make his own decision. At the same time he promoted cheap, young and effective (if not perfect) players like Wang, Cano and Melky. Giambi is killing us but Cash’s name is not on that one. Cash held out to get Damon for four years when Boras wanted more. Cash got us A-Rod, for better or worse. Nobody could have predicted Abreu ‘07, or that the starting pitching injuries would come early and in a cluster. Combine that with a hot start for Boston and there you are. I’d even argue now that Pavano was hurt all along. Besides, nobody would have taken him off our hands this year. Seriously, what was Cash to do? Everybody wanted that guy two years ago.
3. Cashman saying he wanted 100% control, and getting it, is not the same as saying Cashman is the only emloyee in the office of General Manager. The Yankees have a whole network of advisors and scouts and directors of player development and pitching gurus, and of course, Gene Michael who was Billy Bean before Bean was. Just remember that this is a corporate reorganization. Cashman fought against, and the team suffered from, distributed control (The NY Group versus the Tamp Group). Cashman is still centralizing control to get the organization going on the right path. Once there, he can choose to re-distribute control to trusted managers.
As for Boston and their “brain trust,” there are plenty of laptop wielding boy geniuses out there who can’t translate numbers into wins. See, e.g., Paul DePodesta. Bill James is a gifted, clear thinker. But he is not infallible and he is reputed by himself and others to be impossibly stubborn and difficult to work with. And he never played the game. He’s no magic bullet either (Coco Crisp, Matt Clement, Keith Foulke, Wade Miller, Wily Mo. He can’t unManny Manny and he didn’t pick up Ortiz for the Sox).
4. Let’s be clear about what the goal is here and at what cost.
It is unfair to blame Cash for residual multiple personality disorder in Yankee headquarters or in Yankee Nation. People who think they can simultaneously spend even more on the failed strategy of acquiring “win now” players to stay atop the contending teams, while they quickly fix everything that is wrong in the organization are mistaken. The Yankees must divert money and attention to developing from within, a process that has to be nurtured and helped along gradually. Or they can continue to do what they have done for the last 5 o 6 years. Note: Expecting different results when you keep doing the same thing has been defined as insanity.
Hi Pete – In a way, the ace was on the mound – in SWB. I never know quite how to take Roger and I’ve followed him since he was in the college world series. However, the positive/negative rant he gave yesterday to a journalist was telling. I’ll bet he can’t wait to get formally on the team and speak his mind in the privacy of their own clubhouse. He’s never lost connections with Jeter, Jorge, Mariano, Andy and Bernie and I’m sure he will have a lot to say. If only we could bring back Paulie as well…........
Another problem with the “blame Cashman” mentality is that no team can make the playoffs every year regardless of its payroll. A GM can only point his team in the right direction.
The Sox finished 2006 in third place, and are now the best team in baseball. Except for Okajima and to some extent Matsuzaka, the reason they are doing so well has little to do with their new players and everything to do with the pieces that were already in place. Theo made some moves that worked and some moves that didn’t, but the success of the good moves outweighed the problems with the bad ones.
The fact that Cashman is a good GM is evident in that the Yankees can finish in third place this year (thanks in part to the worst streak of bad luck and injuries I have ever seen) and still have the potential to be the best team in baseball next year.
i agree with murphydog, lets see what cashman can do and where the yankees are come 2009-2010. a quick change now could head the franchise down the path of the mid to late 80’s. and that was ugly
one assumption for 2007 was that the yankees had 7 all stars in the field, and at least two pitching all stars.
the reality so far is that they have three all stars ,arod, jeter, and posada. the outfield was supposed to be an all star outfield. matsui,damon,and abreau are all stars this year.
cano is not an all star this year. there are no pitching all stars. wang and rivera have underperformed.
so instead of 9 all stars, the yankees are down to three. they are missing 6 all star performances. can these guys come back to an all st