Myth vs. reality with the Yankees
-
- May
- 29
Myth: The Yankees should trade guys like Johnny Damon, Bobby Abreu and Jason Giambi and start rebuilding. Maybe Josh Phelps can get something.
Reality: All three have blanket no-trade clauses in their contracts. Abreu will be a free agent after this season and has approximately $10.3 million remaining on his deal. The return on him would be marginal. There is not a large market out there for aging, underachieving expensive players. Phelps was a Rule 5 pick and can’t be traded without the team obtaining him adhering to the Rule 5 restrictions.
————-
Myth: Fire Kevin Long, the hitting coach must be at fault.
Reality: The Yankees are fourth in runs scored in the AL, sixth in batting average, 4th in OPS and third in OBP.
————-
Myth: Fire Ron Guidry, the pitching coach must be fault.
Reality: In 49 games, the Yankees have gotten 24 starts from Wang, Mussina and Pettitte. The rest have come from rookies or bums.
————-
Myth: Just call up kids from the minor leagues, they have to do better.
Reality: OK, like who? The best hitter at Scranton is Shelley Duncan, who has 12 homers and 31 RBI in 44 games but also 35 strikeouts. Spring training masher Bronson Sardinha is hitting .213. Scranton’s most consistent hitter is Andy Phillips. Forget about the kids at Trenton, they’re not ready yet. The Yankees have already tried most of the pitchers. Edwar Ramirez, a 26-year-old reliever with good numbers, could get a shot soon.
————-
Myth: Fire Brian Cashman, this is all his fault.
Reality: Cashman has made mistakes, Kei Igawa being the biggest. But everybody wanted Carl Pavano, including the Red Sox. Everybody liked the Damon signing and most everybody agreed with dumping Sheffield and Johnson. The Yankees don’t have a lot of roster flexibility and Cashman has improved that to some degree. Firing him now could drop this team into a 10-year slump. Signing a series of older, expensive players is not the way to go and that’s what Steinbrenner’s advisors will tell him to do.
————-
Myth: Just fire Joe Torre then.
Reality: It’s tough to argue against this. But would Don Mattingly make that much a difference a third of a way through the season? I’m not convinced of that. But when teams go bad, it’s almost always the manager who pays the price.
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on Tuesday, May 29th, 2007 at 12:39 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Sox get a call overturned…. This is very interesting..
Last night Indians Casey Blake got hit in the hand by Papelbon, the Umpire called HBP and guess what??Red Sox went crazy and started crying and crying and complained to the umpires, guess what??? The Umpires once again OVERTURN a call to the Red Sox. Why is this and the Yankees just keep getting hammered by bad umpiring.
And btw, just to make it a bit more clearer, Sox complained that he swinged a bit while getting hit…....
He’s right about not being able to trade anybody.
Which basically means this team has to play out the season, which also means they need to break out of this funk they are in, and soon.
New Yankee lineup is my answer.
They said they have tried everything….well..no they haven’t.
How about this lineup tonight.
Jeter
Damon
Arod
Posada
Matsui
Giambi
Cano
Abreu
Minky
Maybe Jeter can jumpstart something. It’s ridiculous that the Yankees can’t hit a guy with a 7.00 ERA last night.
The other thing I would suggest is that the FIRST close play that the Yankees get screwed on, Torre does his best impression of Piniella, Earl Weaver, Sparky Anderson and Tom Lasorda….all combined!
He needs something to fire this team up, short of starting a bench-clearing brawl, which in Fenway might be the only option left to save his job.
I disagree with having mattingly next in line as manager.
To save a team from a start like this requires savy and fire, from someone who has won with kids pitching before.
Who better or more available than Joe Girardi, also a link to the dynasty years.
Time to wake up the players -make Bowa the manager. He might ignite the team.If not,Donnie Baseball can start fresh next year and not be the manager after Torre.
I think The Yanks would love to dump Giambi (if the rumors of a trade to the Angels are true) and would eat some contract on him. Agreed on Abreu, and I think Damon is paying the price for not going on the DL to heal up at the start of the season. then again, right now the only option to replace him is the offense-challenged Melky Cabrera.
BTW, I was at Friday night’s game and had a fan complain to me about how they needed Bernie on this team.
And Pete, don’t forget Cashman being the one who hired the butcher/conditioning coach during the offseason.
Peter,
If your diagnosis of the Yankees is correct than I’m lost as to what the teams options are. The most depressing thing, it seems to me, is that not only are we out of options as to how to fix the team but we also don’t have any options if we decide the season is over and want to sell off.
interesting lineup. I think it is worth a shot to have Jeter leading off. Although I think Abreau needs to sit.
Peter,
Your offensive stats are aggregate. Check them in splits. The first being through May 9th when the team was 16-16.
The second since May 10th when the team is 5-12.
Ugly. That’s a LONG slump, no pun intended.
As for Joe vs. Mattingly… Could it get any worse?
Peter, if you take out A-Rod, Jeter and Posada, NY’s OPS drops through the floor. Matsui is middling at best, and Giambi is on the cusp of falling into oblivion. So the offense is not nearly the power house a first glance might imply.
And who’s struggling the worst? Besides Abreu and Damon (both age related), Cano and Melky – a couple of guys who are probably the most susceptible to good hitting instruction. Right now Cano is awful and Melky worse. Not their results: their APPROACH. Swinging in early counts, not working the pitcher, etc. That falls on Mr. Long.
Torre needs to be fired because he has lost this team. His in-game management is inept, and has been for years, but this is the first time it looks like a team has quit on him. Replace him with Skippy for all I care, but watching him smile and stare as his team takes another one up the yazoo is killing me as a fan. It’s got to be devastating to watch as a player.
once the yanks get wang , pettitte , moose , clemens and either hughes or igawa or a rookie as the 1-5 starters . maybe get mo some consitent work and figure out to get the line-up running on all cylinders. maybe , just maybe they can end thier season with some diginty . maybe even a wild card . but moral is low . its either the pitching working and the offese not of vice versa . they just cant seem to get it all together . 210 mill for nada .
a few things..
i cant knock cashman for most of his moves.. he made great deals over the summer. (except for igawa)
the problem is i have no idea where to go from here.. you cant just start trading everyone away, we have no young hitters to fill the roster.
Not to jump on the bandwagon, but: Excellent analysis Pete.
Having seen the rumors, I think Mark T. from Texas will be pursued pretty heavily by the Yanks, and very soon. That will free up a roster spot (sort of) since they can eliminate the platoon. I just wonder what it will take to get him (how many young arms the Rangers will want).
Having a full-time first basemen will give some of the AARP Yanks a chance to rest in the DH spot.
As for this being Long’s fault: how? Remember, Donnie Baseball is right there, and this is a coaching STAFF. The only players Long can be possibly be blamed for are Cano and Melky, since they are young and need a certain level of direction. The veterans should know how to fight their way out of a slump.
The Rocket arrives soon, let’s hope he provides immediate help. The clock is ticking on this season.
solid post pete.
changing the batting order isn’t going to change a thing. the yankees stink b/c Abreu, Cano, and Giambi stink right now. you can put them in any order you want and it’s not going to make a bit of difference.
there are 3-4 automatic outs in the lineup right now and all of the power has disappeared. completely vanished. that is why the Yankees are losing. it’s not because of Igawa or Torre (although this weekend was pretty surreal watching Torre “manage” the pitching staff) or Nieves or even Mientkiewicz.
it’s b/c about a month ago, the team completely stopped hitting HRs. people love to blame cashman, but if you saw THIS coming, i’d love to hear about it:
2006 SLG vs. 2007 SLG
Damon: .482/.358
Cano: .525/.373
Abreu: .462 (.507 with NYY)/.295
Giambi: .558/.418
Cabrera: .391/.300
THIS is why the Yankees stink. they have lost all their power. and i don’t know why.
some guys are older, and that has to be factored in, but these dropoffs are not gradual and no one on this list is really “old” except for Giambi. injuries? is it steroid related? i really have no idea.
2007 Yankees –
I agree with leading off w/ Jeter, but why bat Damon second? I would filp-flop Damon and Cano, and play Melky in place of Giambi, who needs a trip to the DL, because he sure isn’t helping matters here.
Derek –
I’m not sure Mattingly is the right person for the next manager, but I’m pretty sure Giardi isn’t. While he did well with the kids at Florida last year, this is a veteran club who won’t respond to his antics like rookies did. Also, ask Yogi how hard it is to manage players you once played with. Additionally, he told his boss (Marlin’s owner Jerrfrey Loria) to sit down and STFU. Even if Loria derserved the comment, you have to question his judgment in saying that to his boss.
The numbers and the losing wouldn’t be so hard to take if it looked like it was BOTHERING the players. Right now most of the team looks like it really couldn’t care less about the losing. One one hand that’s a good thing – panicking isn’t going to fix anything – but at least for the fans’ sake, we need to see some signs of life out there. Even if he doesn’t pitch like we hope he will, I think Clemens will bring some emotion and some fire to the clubhouse.
I mentioned this in another post last night, but what about trading Mo and Posada? Surely a team in contention would give up something for either of them. They have more value than anyone else on the team, unless of course they know A-Rod is gonna opt out and can get him to agree to a trade.
Mo and Posada are both free agents and could be resigned over the winter.
Just reaching here, but could the total loss of power that hmmm documented have something to do with all the references to adopting a “smallball” mentality at the beginning of the season? In other words, is the team somehow deemphasizing home runs?
Pete’s Reality: In 49 games, the Yankees have gotten 24 starts from Wang, Mussina and Pettitte. The rest have come from rookies or bums.
My Reality: In the 24 games started by Wang, Moose, and Pettite, the Yankees are 9-15. In the 25 other games, they’re 12-13. Granted, the bullpen has blown some games for the “real starters,” but you can’t expect the “fake starters” to do much better than .500 considering half of them shouldn’t even be on a AAA roster, much less a major league roster. So, with the Yankees 7 games under .500, I wouldn’t put too much blame on the “fake starters.”
Hey dr. Here’s what’s interesting: Why don’t you just worry about your decrepit team and forget about watching the Red Sox pull away from the pack. Like that game they won last night is the difference maker for your crappy team being 6 games under .500
get real! Love the excuses though! by my count with all of your sorry excuses, you should have won the 2007 World Series already this year! What an All Star team!!!!!!!!
Nice try! better luck in 2012 after you build your team back up from the ground up! $200 million gone to waste. How embarrassing!
FIRE GUIDRY HE’ S A BUM FIRE HITTING COACH, FIRE DON MATTINGLY HE’S IS A BLACK CAT, BRING GIRARDI, FOR THE NEXT YEAR IF CLEMENS IS RETIRED BRING HIM AS PITCHING COACH IF HE TAUGHT SCILLING TO BE AN ACE HE CAN HELP WANG, HUGHES , TO BE BETTER, BRING SANTANA,DONTRELLE,ICHIRO OR ANDREW JONES, BRING HEALTHY AND SKILLFULL PLAYERS NOT INJURED OVERPAYD GRANDPARENTS. IS TIME TO CLEAN THE HOUSE AND DUMP THE OLD BYE BYE FARNSWORTH, PROCTOR VIZCAINO, NEW YORK YANKEES IS THE GREATEST TEAM OF ALL TIME EVERYBODY HATE THEM FOR THAT, AND IF YOU ARE THE BEST YOU GOTTA HAVE THE BEST PLAYERS NOT MEDIOCRE PLAYER, SPEND ALL YOUR MONEY BRINGING QUALITY NOT PLAYERS THAT USED TO BE GOOD IN THE PAST, BRING TORII HUNTER,BRING ARAMIS RAMIREZ, BRING PAUL KONERKO, BRING HALLADAY, IS TIME TO RENEW THE TEAM IS TIME TO BUILD A DYNISTY AGAIN IS TIME POR PLAYERS WITH THS SAME GRIT OF BROSIOUS, O´NEALL, KNOBLAUCH, BOGGS, YOU ALL KNOW WHAT I MEAN, UNDERSTAND THAT HOME RUNS DOEST WIN GAMES RUNS DOES
WHAT I MEAN IS IS TIME TO RENEW TO CHANGE THE MIND STOP MAKING THIS TEAM A HOSPITAL OR A RETIREMENT CASTTLE.
IS CASHMAN DONT STOP DOING THIS THINGS HE WILL BRING MONTY BURNS,ABE SIMPSON AND PAPA SMURF TO PLAY. EXPECT THE UNSPECTED FROM CASHMAN
Cashman has made mistakes, Kei Igawa being the biggest
Uhh, what? Kevin Brown, Randy Johnson, Javier Vazquez, Carl Pavano, Igawa, Farnsworth, and now Roger Clemens… just to spit a few back at that thought.
It’s not the case of the Red Sox or other teams wanting the mentioned players, but rather that Cashman gave them far more than they were ever worth to get them….
I could go on for hours about how bad of GM Cashman is, and I know you’re a bit of his ponyboy, so I’ll stay away from it. The proof is in the pudding, as my pop used to say, and in this case, the pudding are the results from the past four years. Unless, of course, we’ve been belittled into hanging our hats on just making the playoffs to be quickly embarrassed.
Just my thoughts.
Skisan:
If I could have anyone manage this Yankee team right now, it would be Bobby Valentine. Girardi is out for the reasons you mentioned, and it would be career suicide for Donnie Baseball to take the job.
I could see Bowa or even Tony Pena riding out the season as caretaker.
To all you Yankee fans WHINING over recent bad calls against you…ITS ABOUT TIME!!! For years you pinstriped pinheads would get the benefit of every call. How about Reggie Jackson sticking his fat ass out in the 77 World Series…blatant interference but the Yankee$ got the call…how about the pine tar game with George Brett…at least MLB made you play the last inning over, but the bottom line is the Yankee$ got the call. Then there was Lee Mazzilli (who was coaching first base) claiming interference on a base runner rounding first base during an interleague game in 1999 or 2000 against the Mets. The reply showed no interference, but Mazzilli whined about it and the Yankee$ once again got the call…and oh yeh, what about the Jeffery Meyer fiasco in the playoffs against the Orioles. That kid should have been fined , taken from the stadium and jailed for interfering with a ball that would have been caught. The Orioles would have won that game…but once again the Yankee$ get the call and the kid becomes a hero for his criminal act. There are numerous more examples, but why waste time pointing them out.
ITA ABOUT TIME CALLS ARE GOING AGAINST THE YANKEES!
This is a wonderful time for baseball fans…the richest and most arrogant team is in last place for the moment and their pathetic fans are like a spoiled rich kid throwing a temper tantrum because they are not getting there own way!!
“It’s tough to argue against this. But would Don Mattingly make that much a difference a third of a way through the season?”
Any difference is enough difference.
What’s gonna be more embarrassing? The Yanks having a trainwreck of a season where anything that can go wrong has or Boston getting off to such a great start and getting swept in the first round of the playoffs? That will make the season all worthwhile.
Hawk:
Not all of those signings were made on Cashman’s “watch”, so to speak. The Brown, Johnson, Pavano and Vazquez signings were largely results of the Tampa think tank rather than Cash.
No one’s taking Giambi so just forget that dream. If Bonds couldn’t get a sniff, why would a team want a better-mannered, less talented, more unhealty version? Either DL him or keep running him out in the hope that whoever’s supplying his meds can come up with a prescription to turn him around like they did around this time in 2005.
Abreu needs to be moved no matter how much of his salary we have to eat. I don’t believe he’ll be so adamant about his no-trade, especially when the boo-birds start on him, which I’m surprised hasn’t happened yet. Either way, he’s a friggin cancer. Trade him, cut him, or bury him in the foundation of the new stadium, Hoffa-style. I know Melky’s been a disappointment but I’d still rather give him an every day shot than watch this pathetic has-been end games with his bat on his shoulder.
We’re stuck with Damon, who to me has been the biggest disappointment. Where’s the ballsy gamer who played through a vicious concussion a few years ago? Now he’s sitting out every other day with cramps like a pubescent school girl? Shows what 52 mil does to these guys. He’s another one who should either be DLed or made to play every day and told to pipe down about his aches and pains.
Lastly, St. Joe’s time has come and gone and anyone who can’t see that now never will. As bad as this season has been, imagine how sickening it’ll get if we’re twenty games out in mid-August and Joe’s taking a farewell lap on our dime the way Fassell did to Giant fans a few years ago. And forget Donnie Baseball. You don’t repalce a kindly uncle with an even kindlier, younger uncle. I’d hire Girardi who I think is chomping at the bit to come in and start kickin’ asses, but I also wouldn’t be adverse to putting Bowa in as an interim and telling him that it’s his last rodeo, time to go out in a blaze.
Mike has a point. For the most part, pitchers not named Wang, Mussina, and Pettitte have done a decent job of keeping us in games.
The rookies’/bums’ records:
Hughes: 1-1
Wright: 1-1 (and despite his humiliation at the hands of the Sox, we lost that game by 1 run)
Clippard: 1-1 (with the loss partially attributable to Torre making his worst moves of the season)
DeSalvo: 1-2 (should be 2-2, as the offense wasted his great debut against Seattle)
Rasner: 1-3 (but a respectable 4.01 ERA)
Karstens: 0-1
Pavano: 1-0
Igawa: 2-1
Obviously, Pavano and Igawa should have been much better. But the rest, with the exception of Karstens, have arguably outperformed expectations.
He swinged? he swinged?
He swung! What are you? the Dr of grammer? (and he did swing and the rules say he’s out!!!!)
Red Sox pick’in up steam and watching the Yankees get smaller and smaller in their rear-view mirrors! Way to go! Last place as the streak continues! Let’s see: I said swept by the Angels, swept by Toronto and swept by the BEST TEAM IN BASEBALL! How am I doing so far?
Well suddenly Epstein looks like a genius in passing up on Abreu last year… The fact is that when Matsui and Sheffield got hurt, yanks should have plugged the hole from within or getting a decent outfielder by trade.. Teams like the twins and Braves do that all the time.. Yanks went ahead and got another 16 million $ guy who looked way overpaid at that time.. Though he did help them somewhat for 1/2 a season, they would have still made the playoffs without Abreu.. Damon(100+ runs, 150+ hits) and Matsui(20-25 hrs, 100+ Rbi) will still finish the years with their usual stats.. Its Abreu, Giambi’s slump and Cano’s an year late sophomore that’s hurting this team badly…
Pena for Manager.
Make it so Peter.
Why the hell is Chris Britton rotting in the minors with his .78 ERA while bums like Vizcaino, Myers, and Villone are stinking up our pen?
Chris Britton won’t save our season but he’s killing AAA and should have been given a shot ahead of VILLONE.
Terrible, just terrible Cashmoney.
Mattingly is a legend and all that but
I don’t think he’s the best choice for Yankee manager. The farm system is teeming with pitching. Over the next few years, if they hang onto them, there will be a number of starting pitchers breaking into the big leagues with the Yanks. How these guys are handled by whoever is managing will be crucial to their development and in turn to the Yankees’ future success. A young, inexperienced manager faced with the pressure to win that comes with the city and the payroll, could end up overusing some of these young arms a la Dusty Baker. I don’t want Hughes and Chamberlain to become the next Prior and Wood. Girardi should be the guy because he’s worked with young pitchers before, as someone already mentioned.
Cashman Mistakes
Contreras
Brown
Vasquez
Weaver
Pavano(the fact that Bos wanted him too doesn’t make it any less of a mistake)
Igawa
Johnson
Pettitte(letting him walk)
Karsay
Farnsworth
Quantrill
Hitchcock
Giambi(this guy has turned out to be half the player we wanted)
Damon
Not signing Beltran
“NOT MEDIOCRE PLAYER, SPEND ALL YOUR MONEY BRINGING QUALITY NOT PLAYERS THAT USED TO BE GOOD IN THE PAST, BRING TORII HUNTER,BRING ARAMIS RAMIREZ, BRING PAUL KONERKO, ”
please tell me this is a joke.
” Though he did help them somewhat for 1/2 a season, they would have still made the playoffs without Abreu.”
total falsehood. the abreau deal turned around the summer of 2006.
Disciples of Satan are winning. The Redsox, Angels and Indians.. What of these three teams have in common? It’s All Red.. So basically If these three teams make playoffs this year, theme will be red.. Larry ” Luficer” Lucchino and John Henry pleads their alleagiance to Satan.. Oh, Grim Reaper, I hope you take the souls away of Lucchino and Henry and out them in hell.
Nice summary of the realities at hand. The one place you couldn’t rationalize was Torre. I am so sick and tired of his “percentage”,”by the book” baseball. And I’m also sick and tired of watching the game go south while he sits and holds Jeter’s bat. Torre needs to go and what they need is coaching third base. Bowa would not have put up with the run of terrible calls the Yanks have been stuck with and Girardi has the fire and experience to get these guys back in the game.
I’d like to remove myself from “everybody”
I saw a disaster coming a mile away with the oft-injured, lousy when pitching Carl Pavano.
I didn’t predict THIS But I in no way thought we would get four years of quality pitching and 30 starts a year.
Thats one of the benefits of looking at someone’s career instead of just focusing on what happened the prior year.
I agree at this point that we probably can’t trade Abreu, Giambi or Damon because of their no trade clauses, but I think things could change over the next couple of months. Giambi and Abreu would happily leave for another team if they had a shot at the playoffs and could get a fresh start (Abreu is looking for a new contract and he needs to play well to get it). We have no idea if someone on a contending team like Milwaukee, Cleveland, Anaheim, Los Angeles, San Diego, etc. will get injured and they may be desperate for a player like Giambi or Abreu. You never really know what is going to happen (who thought the Yankees would be in last place after 50 games?), so I still think it is a possibility. We are pretty much stuck with Damon, which is fine if he becomes a full time DH. The only way that happens is if we move Giambi and I think Cashman will look in to it as the trade deadline approaches. All it really takes are a couple of injuries to some players on contending teams and the value of Giambi and Abreu will go up.
Now Bob! You’re finally making some sense forgetting about your Yankee dreams and looking to the Red Sox future, but there’s 4 mis-calculations on your part!
1 Scill (10 Ks, no walks against Cleveland last night)
2 Beckett (7-0)
3 Dice-K (7-2)
4 Paplebon (“Young Riveria-like” for our long winning future)
Sounds like a sweep in the first round for us!
Yeah there going to lose in the first round. Nice try! I’ll pick you up for the parade! You can sit next to me!!!!
It’s going to be a long painful summer in NY!!!! and I’m lov’in every minute of it! and it’s not even June!!!
Ryan,
Clemenens and Pettitte had just left. Look at Brown’s numbers the year he was signed. Can’t blame Cashman for that. Also, don’t be fooled, Pettitte was leaving this team unless the bank was broken. Given his elbow at the time, I don’t blame the Yankees.
RJ wasn’t him. Weaver, Vazquez and Pavano were all highly coveted.
Giambi was not a Cashman mistake. neither was Johnson. these were Tampa moves through and through, and the Johnson trade directly lead to the Yanks passing on Beltran. leading to Damon.
Hitchcock? huh? what impact did Hitchcock have?
Weaver was an excellent trade that can only be criticized in hindsight. go look up his numbers in Detroit. he was young, talented, and signed to a decent contract. it was a GREAT trade at the time it was made.
Contreras was not a mistake either. he is an above average pitcher who the Yankees would love to have right now. signing him was a very smart deal. he obviously has the talent to be good. the fact that he could not put it together in NYC but has pitched very well in Chicago is more on the coaching staff then on Cashman. the talent was there. that’s all a GM can do, fill the roster with talent. the rest is up to the coaches and the players themselves.
this list is pretty revisionist.
Mattingly is not the answer as the next manager. Girardi is, just look at what he did with Florida. He never shouldve been fired. He wants the Yankees job, why else would he sit around with Michael Kay 3 days a week when he could be managing somewhere else.
I am concerned like all of you about the performance of this team and there are characteristics that I am not sure can be fixed (the bullpen can’t get an out, the offense is getting older).....but I still think the time to make drastic changes is in the offseason and not midseason. But as a fan, I refuse to ignore the fact that the wild card consistently comes from the back of the pack…. Will the NY pressure not allow that? Who knows, but this season is still very young.
Here is my question. Why do people think this team has given up? This is baseball, not football or basketball, and it is very difficult to show emotion (esp. when you are losing). Remember, everybody loved how calm and relaxed the Yanks were when they were winning games in the past.
Can people point to specific moments when the team has “given up?” Again, I agree Torre looks dead over there on the dugout, but what would you prefer to see him doing?
Hey Redsox are devil:
Are you 10 years old?
Why don’t you go light a candle or something witch-y like! That might make you happier!
Peter – Solid post. Is it possible that many teams have caught on to the Yankee way of wearing down pitchers? Last year vs Detroit, Bonderman after game 4 said that he got a tip from another pitcher about how to pitch to the Yankees and it worked. When you think about it, it really is the lefties in the lineup: Giambi, Abreu, Cano, Damon and a bit of Matsui that are letting the team down. They all are not even having decent AB’s. Is this something that the coaching staff has considered?
Enoch- you gotta judge Cashman by results and the results have stunk!
Period.
No I’m 100 years old to be exact …...
I hope Grim Reaper take The souls away of disciples of Satan, Mr. Larry “Lucifer Lucchino and John Henry.. It must be stopped now and put them in hell.
The Grim Reaper:
He is the personification of death,
cloaked skeleton holding a scythe.
To take away your very last breath,
pray that he never comes to visit.
Most gruesome specter you will ever find.
He glides by night, his destined
victims for which he’ll seek.
He will see you in hell before you speak.
So mind yourself as you sleep,
for his coming will make you weep.
Angel of death with one thing on his mind.
He will track down all those that he must seek out and find.
His midnight black robe you will
never want to see.
should you ever see him,
you know that he is seeking thee.
Your head he will sever like grain,
he will not stop, he won’t refrain.
He will not talk, he will not speak,
grab your coat and begin to flee.
I think its fairly safe to call Contreras a letdown. He wasn’t signed to 32 million dollars to be slightly above average. The only year that hasn’t been a massive letdown is 05. I don’t blame Cashman for that though.
Why does he still have a good reputation?
What has he done that has worked?
you can excuse all the bad moves away but you have to look at results!
hindsight is all what we have to evaluate GMs and looking back Cash is a BAD GM.
its really funny how red sox fans post on a yankees beat writers blog. you guys seem pretty preoccupied with a team in last place…the only way i can rationalize you people coming to this website is because you’re still scared of what the yankees can do. if thats the case, so be it, enjoy your time here.
Saying Cashman is a bad GM because guys like Weaver and Vazquez didn’t live up to expectations in NY is like saying someone is a bad blackjack player because he busted against the dealer’s 20. Show me a GM who looks like a winner on every single trade or FA signing he makes. Also, show me one former Yankee who Cashman stupidly traded away.
“Enoch- you gotta judge Cashman by results and the results have stunk!
Period.”
that’s pretty simplistic.
most of the players you list are from previous seasons. have the results “stunk” before this year? the yankees have won the division every year and won about 95 games a season.
so according to your philosophy, cashman did a very good job with most of the players you list. and if that’s the case, maybe he deserves a little slack for this year, the first one of his career where the results have “stunk”.
Sox fans are the best whiners ever
“Waaah its been 86 years waaah”
“Waaah we sold the Bambino waaah”
“Waaah the Yanks have such a high payroll even though we have the 2nd highest waaah”
“Waaah my entire family is borderline mentally retar*ed because of chronic alcohol poisoning waaah”
Its so great watching you Yankee fans wet your pants and attack each other. So mature, so intellegent, so typical. Oh, and I’ll bet Steinbrenner just can’t stand the fact that there are so many friggin’ geniuses sending in blog comments who would make better GMs than Cashman if only he would hire them. Well, better let you get back to your jobs at Dunkin’ Donuts.
hmmm,
you’re back. i’m assuming you stay away from the blog until the hysteria dies down after a the yankees find a new low.
i still think the wild card is within reach. detroit is under .600 already and has it’s problems. i’m waiting for clemens to settle into the rotation and for some of the slumping all stars to be more like themselves before passing judgement on the team. the yankees could do one trade maybe to upgrade, like abreau last year, but that’s not easy to do.
clemens will be back in 5 days. if they keep in the 7 games back range in the wild card they still have a good shot if he’s healthy. i’m a little concerned with how he’s rushing to get back.
i can see both sides of starting or not starting him in fenway, but if he’s ready i’d start him because i think facing the monster is the best way to attack a problem. the yankees need some spark, that ought to do it. if it doesn’t nothing will.
“You gotta judge Cashman by results and the results have stunk”????
They have made the playoffs every year he has been the GM. He won 3 of the 4 World Series they won under Torre.
How does that make the results “stink”?
Don’t let one awful season make you so emotional you can’t think clearly.
Not even “Boy Genius” Theo Espstein has made the playoffs every year he has been a GM. Sooner or later, EVERY team has a year like this. Even the Yankees. The key is not to abandon all logic and reason (as George has done in the past) when you begin to fix it.
I love the revisionist history on Bobby Abreu. The guy is hitting 100 points under what he hit last year. He was an OBP and RBI machine last year and without him they don’t make the playoffs.
So, who in this blog “predicted” he would suffer such a decline this year? Is that now Brian Cashman’s fault?
This year, he has been awful and its now a “bad trade”. That’s too funny.
They didn’t give up anybody of value for Abreu and he is not going to be here next year.
How, exactly, is it a bad trade? They won last year in large part to his contribtions and they will fill RF with one of the FA OF’s in the off-season. That’s because of the flexibility of making that deal instead of giving Gary Sheffield a 3 year contract extension.
I know everybody is on the “blame everybody, fire everybody” bandwagon. But, take a step back, inject some logic and reason into the debate, and you will see, there isn’t a helluva lot ANY GM can do when your entire team (with the exception of 4 guys: Jeter, Posada, ARod and Pettitte) fall completely off the map.
I don’t know of a GM that can find 21 baseball players at the drop of a hat on May 29, because their team is badly underperforming.
At some point, you have to aim at the right target when assessing blame. How about on the players?
They are the one’s who actually play the game, don’t they?
Three World Series Rings and every year in the play-offs and Cashman is a bad GM, right. No other GM in baseball has that resume. As Orlando Cabrerra said the other day – Yankee fans lose badly.
Pete
I will disagree about Guidry. When I’m reading that Moose hooked up with Mel at a golf tournament last week to get his mechanics straightened out, I see a lack of confidence in Gator among the vets. I also see Posada doing a tremendous job as on the field pitching coach with the rookies because Ronunlike Stottlemeyer – almost NEVER comes out to talk to them when they’re under pressure.Pete – your site is a bit squirrely. I never put any lines thorugh my post.
“hindsight is all what we have to evaluate GMs and looking back Cash is a BAD GM.”
so if Cashman had traded all of our prospects this offseason and the yanks were in 1st place, but completely screwed for the next decade, that would be OK with you?
the world is a lot more complicated than just using hindsight. you have to use some foresight as well.
if Cashman were to be fired tomorrow and replaced with a “win now GM”, the yankees would be SCREWED for years.
if there is one thing you can’t argue with is that Cashman has guarded the farm system religiously for the last 2 years.
WOW. Peter…...looks like the filter that was added to the comments section is busted.
Pete, Kevin Long is the problem in that as hitters they have nonsensical approaches to pitchers. They score runs in bursts becasue they are operating on talent alone- and the Yankees have VERY talented hitters. The difference a hitting coach brings is he stratgeizes approaches to pitchers…Long (or whomever) does not do that.
The Yankee hitters just get up there and hack…now most people think the hitting coach is just the guy that flips ya soft toss in the cage for extra work, but he isn;t. His single biggest contribution is preparing the hitters to face a pitcher- to squash through scotuing reports, tendencies, etc and formulate a game plan.
It’s like a football team that depends on a QB to use a bottle cp and two sticks in the huddle to tell a reciever what route to run.
Long is helpless. Fire the guy.
Every team has years like this. And when they come after years where the GM trades away two HOF type players, gets nothing in return, makes an absurd signing that had to be sight unseen in Igawa, stubbornly keeps the worst signing in franchise history, and assembles a bench so bad it borders on sabotage, its time to look at just what the heck the GM was thinking.
I just looked up Edwar Ramirez numbers and they look good. It says though that he’s 6’3 and weighs 155 lbs. Is this correct? The guy weighs as much as I do and is 6 inches taller.
Rich Myers – the strikeout lines on your post are because you have dashed directly in front and directly behind your text:
like soif you put spaces between the dashes and text it’ll fix your issue
– like so -
“you’re back. i’m assuming you stay away from the blog until the hysteria dies down after a the yankees find a new low.”
partially. i was away from a computer all weekend. but yeah, this place is pretty bad when things aren’t going well.
you and SJ44 are right on here.
“I love the revisionist history on Bobby Abreu. The guy is hitting 100 points under what he hit last year. He was an OBP and RBI machine last year and without him they don’t make the playoffs.”
one other thing everyone forgets is that Cashman held out long enough on the Abreu trade until the Phillies gave Abreu $1.5M cash to waive his NTC. originally Abreu was demanding that the Yankees pick up his 2008 option for him to waive his NTC. Cashman held the line on that and the Yanks were lucky he did.
if you put these symbols in front and behind text (no spaces) you’ll get:
bold
_ will italicize
italics
+ will underline
underline
astericks (*) will bold
Here it is in a nut shell. The Yankees suck. We all know this now the only question that there is is what can they do about it. Its obvious that the talent is there and some changes need to be made to help them to perform to their ability. Here it is and why:
1. FIRE JOE TORRE. Some people abuse alcohol Toree abuses pitching. case in point. pulling Mussina out after 6 when he has only given up one run in favor of Matt Desalvo who has never had a relief appearance. Putting in Myers to face a righty. I could go on all day with him. Bring in Girardi, there was a reason he was NL manager of the year.
2. FIRE GUIDRY. If hes letting Torre get away with what i mentioned above he agrees. Rich Montleone will be fine in the interm.
3. TRADE FARNSWORTH AND VISCIANO. Both of these guys are NL pitchers and dont convert to NY. My 12 year old could line up Kyles 97 mph fast ball because its got no movement. Send them both back to the NL for a Decent Catcher and a speedy guy for the bench.
4. That brings us to bye bye Nieves and Ciaro. Im sure there is a way to bring in Shawn Figgans for little more than a handful of beans and he would more than replace migel.
5. Obviously we cant trade Giambi. Even if he waved his no trade clause who would want a broken down 4 for 44 DH that cost 20+million a year. The only hope there is to find a way to void his contract if you can.
6. Finally send Mattingly back to being the batting coach. Bowa becomes bench coach and Long can be the third base coach.
7.Cash stays for now but he should know his leash is short and he better find the players the Yankees need to make the playoffs this year or his gone.
OK pete so your post says that the yanks should do absolutely nothing and wait for this skid to slide right into 2008. How exactly are the yanks supposed to shake things up if absolutely no one can be blamed for this disgusting excuse for a season?
I dunno how you can say Igawa is cashmans only major mistake. Cashman has done almost nothing right in the last two yrs. From trading sheff for a guy that has been injurred eight times and is 23 to trading RJ for a crap pitcher instead of getting owings who is actually a MLB caliber starter. He got vizcaino on this team who cant get an out any more. Our 35 yr old catcher is being backed up by a guy that has two major league hits so posada cant get a day off. Cairo is just a waste of space. Mienky was one of the worst off season aqcuisitons – we needed a right handed powwer hitting first baseman. Not a weak hitting lefty. He passed On lilly who had experience and did well in NY when we needed a starter. He passed on Okajima who was personally endorsed by matsui as one of the best lefties in japan when we desparately needed a lefty and ended up re-signing villone. Cash re-signed moose for two yrs and he has one good game so far this yr. This is all excluding acquring pavano, jaret wright, kevin brown, jeff weaver, sidney ponson and all the other god awful pitchers of the past. Besides pettitte which any GM would have done what has cashman done that is right for us? Oh and the best part is somehow cash gets credit for our great farm system even tho ohlendorf is sucking, sanchez is out for two yrs and the only other guys cash has acquired is whelan and clagett. Hughes and clippard are not the fruits of cashmans labor. And if ur not going to blame cashman for the horrible pitching signings of the past, how can u give cash credit for guys like joba chamberlain, JB cox and delin betances. And u can already start to judge cash’s off season acquisition becuz sanchez isnt playing for two yrs if ever and he was the only minor league acqusition that was in the top 100 minor league players. Ohlendorf cant get out minor league hitters, how well can he preform in the majors? Stop supporting cashman already it is just a joke at this point and cash is a laughing stock for the rest of the league. Any GM can do better than he has so far – and u think a new GM wont continue to build the farm system? That doesnt make any sense.
For those of you trashing Cano, he’s hitting .325 over his last 10 games and has 4 multi-hit games in that span. Last season in May, he hit .275, 40 points lower than he did in any other month. Don’t give up on the kid yet. I always thought he should take more pitches, but his OPS is above .800 when the count is 0-0 or 1-0 and 1.355 when the count is 0-1. It drops off tremendously the more pitches he sees, so maybe telling the kid to take more pitches is not the best idea.
That’s what happens when you play in Fenway.
A couple year ago when Tampa was playing Boston at Fenway, Lugo hit a ball to first base and clearly beat Schilling to the bag and was called safe. After Schilling whined to the ump for awhile he got the call changed and Lugo was called out. Lou Piniella went off after that.
i’m going to fly in the face of conventional yankee wisdom here and say the igawa is not necessarily a lost cause. matsuzaka did not pitch well until they let his pitch count go to 120. japanese pitches are used to 130 pitches and up a game. if the yankees let igawa get his pitch count in the minors up to the 120 mark , i think he’ll be useful in the 4.5-5.00 era range as either a long reliever or 5th starter.
if they don’t stretch him out, they wasted 50 million, and the yankee developmental guys are not as smart as some think.
If Igawa gets his pitch count up to 130, maybe he can give up 10 runs instead of the usual seven.
Kevin Long isn’t the problem. Geez, Louise, you think he is the reason why guys don’t hit?
They aren’t robots.
I love it, 180 million dollars in talent and the guy they are paying 100 grand a year is the reason why they don’t hit. Give me a break.
All you inner Steinbrenner’s need to realize something. EVERY team has year’s like this. Nothing has gone right for them all year.
They make a pitching change, it doesn’t work. For example, Scott Proctor is unhittable for a month, he blows the game on Sunday, walking the ballpark.
Last night, Ron Villone, 6 shutout innings since being recalled, can’t find the plate.
You keep starters in too long, they lose. You take them out, the bullpen falls apart.
They don’t hit at all. Not a sniff. Who in their right minds would have thought that going into the season?
The entire team, with the exception of 4 guys, have underperformed this year. That, coupled with injuries AND the Red Sox playing out of their minds, has lead to where they are right now.
As hmmm said, firing everybody to hire people who will yell and scream and trade every prospect to “win now” is not only dumb, IT HASN’T WORKED IN THE PAST, when the Yankees did that very thing.
I mean, some of you have to realize the New York Yankees did play baseball prior to 1996.
For about 10 years, the Yankees were the laughingstock of SPORTS, not just baseball, because they did the things so many of the Inner Steinbrenner’s want them to do.
Maybe some of you are too young to remember those days or they are blocked out due to the last 12 years of success. But, trust me, I don’t want to go back to those days for ANYTHING. It was beyond ugly. It was embarrassing.
If they going to fix what’s broken, its going to take
patience, time and smarts. Not emotional meltdown deals.
They do that, and all of you Inner Steinbrenner’s will be Mets fans for the next decade because the Yankees won’t be sniffing the playoffs.
Gary Sheffield and Randy Johnson were NOT Hall of Fame players at the end of last season. So, its a tad simplistic to call them that and then complain about trading them.
Folks make it sound like they traded Johan Santana and Albert Pujols in their prime’s. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Either yankees scouts or cashman or both are absolutely retarded. We have sooo many bad signings in the last two yrs it is beyond logic why cashman is still the yankees GM
And another thing. If you are going to sign the horrific Doug Mientkiewicz purely for defense (which i disagree with), for Christ sakes, build a bench! He barely hits his weight. We need someone to hit for him in close games.
Cashman couldnt have predicted that abreu, damon, cano and giambi wouldnt hit this yr so none of this is his fault? Pleaaaase! That is the weakest excuse I have ever heard in my life. So wat if cash nor any one else knew that all stars wouldnt hit. The fact is cash did nothing in the off season to help this team win besides getting pettitte. For that, he should be fired.
What is really fun about this blog is that so many of the ranters won’t let little things like facts get in the way of their prejudices, or their fantsies about the power a GM has (now or in the past).
Someone asked a good question above: exactly what great players has Cash traded away? The mark of a good GM is not just who he gets but who he keeps. Shef and RJ were salary dumps. Contreras might be the only one, and he looked like a deer in the headlights for a while in NY. Not everyone succeeds in NY. (Or other places: Abreu was a dog in Philly towards the end.)
Folks, the wildcard is by no means out of sight. The pitching is starting to come around a bit, and if Cano and Matsui are finally hitting again, who knows?
As hmmm noted, the power outage is killing us. (A-Rod haters, think how much further behind we’d be without his performance in April.)
I love Torre, but his in-game managing is as bewildering as it is frustrating. Because he is clearly gone at the end of the year (Barrin a miracle), I would let him go now and install Bowa as an interim manager. He might—and I mean might—ignite something with his fiery ways. Worth a shot. I am a Cashman fan, although he has made a number of errors. His plan to re-stock the farm system and build from within is absolutely correct, and the only encouragingement I get in recent days is following all the arms we have in the minors- from Hughes to Clippard to Kennedy to Chamberlain to Betances, and more. But there is no excuse for keeping Britton at Scranton while pitching Vizcaino. Britton dominated the first 2/3s of the season last year before wearing down and is currently dominating in Scranton. I would also bring up Edwar Ramirez who was stupendous at Trenton and has now pitched 5 or 6 innings of scoreless ball at Scranton (he has a nasty change). These are not huge moves, but they likely would help. I would also cut Cairo loos and bring up Basak who is the same type of player but younger and with more pop in his bat (not a lot, but more). The more major moves will have to wait until the offseason (bye bye Bobby), but these could help some now.
It’s BS that Damon, Abreu and Giambi can’t be moved. Can they be dealt to Kansas City or Tampa or Pittsburgh? No – but they can be traded.
C’mon Peter – you’re deciding to do nothing. This is what the team has decided to do and by the looks of it, it’s not really working for them is it?
This is a classic turnaround case – no different that in the corporate world. You have sunk costs, useless assets and entrenched management. It most certainly can be turned around – Cashman is not a genius. He’s looking like the kid who flunked algebra compared to Epstein, Minaya and Beane. He just had daddy’s paycheck to buy his grades.
You have to remember this a BILLION DOLLAR franchise that’s built on the premise that FANS will pay for the entertainment. We are not entertained!!!!!!!!! We are disgusted! Just because all those tickets were sold at the beginning of hte year doesn’t make them a profitable enterprise into the future.
Concerve cash now! – can someone let me know if you release a player (though you still have to pay his contract out) – does that money count against the salary cap and subsequently add to your luxury tax?
If Torre must be fired, hir Girardi. He will ignite a spark and not let millionaires ego’s get in the way of dropping them to the 9 spot.
Mattingly back to batting coach. Send Long back to the minors.
Bench coach should be Bowa.
Get O’Neill as a coach. He has fire and won’t put up with mediocrity.
Harsha—
Another, unmentioned reason why Sox fans post on this site is because they exult in seeing the Yankees spiral and their fans squirm. Fear of a comeback has nothing do with it.
Even when the Yanks were 4.5 games out at the end of April, the Sox’ lead looked pretty comfortable. At thirteen games, it has become a rout.
I haven’t read much of these posts, but I’m pretty sure I can tell what’s in most of them…
Fire everyone except Jeter, Posada, Arod, and Pettitte.
I think its fair that most every “expert” picked the yankees to win it all at Spring Training, so no one predicted the fall off that Giambi (2006 stats: 37 HR|113 RBI|.253 Avg|.971 OPS), Abreu (2006 stats: 7 HR| 42 RBI|.330 Avg|.926 OPS), Cano (2006 stats: 15 HR|78 RBI|.342 Avg|.890 OPS), or Damon (2006 stats: 24 HR|80 RBI|.285 Avg|.841 OPS) would have this year… and to a certain extent Matsui (2005 stats: 23 HR|116 RBI|.305 Avg|.863 OPS). The DL woes of April to the pitching staff and the offensive fall off of May.
So Torre needs to scream and throw chairs to save his job. And Cashman needs to undo $135 million dollars worth of hefty contracts that Steinbrenner and the rest of the Front Office burdened on this team before Cash had any power at all (Sheff, Randy Johnson, Giambi, etc) and find a way to trade Giambi, Abreu and now Cano, for Helton, Hunter, Ichiro, and Texieria. Let’s see, I have a 1978 rusty old beat up hatchback civic – you get me a dealership that will take that car as an equal tradein for a brand new mercedes and I’ll be the first to nominate you for GM of the Yankees. Oh, and my car has a no-tradein clause that it will refuse to waive under any circumstances and is under investigation for using illegal fuel a few years ago. Trade that in.
can someone let me know if you release a player (though you still have to pay his contract out) – does that money count against the salary cap and subsequently add to your luxury tax?
Yes, it still counts for the luxury tax. Plus you have to add in whatever you have to pay to whomever replaces them.
Guaranteed contracts are fixed costs. You have to take a huge hit to get out from under them.
gargoyle, would you take Damon, Abreu, or Giambi right now? if you’re answer is anything but ‘no,’ you’re lying.
To remind everyone, Cashman has only had complete control over the organization for abou the last year and a half or so. Prior to that many decisions were made by the “baseball people” in Tampa like that moron Billy Connors. The only contract that Cashman has inked that could really be a problem is Damon. Igawa is 4 or 5 years (I dont remember) for a total of $20 million. The good thing is he can spend it in the minors if need be. Thats less than Giambi makes this year by the way. Abreu is gone after this season, and he helped immensely last year, so that isnt a mistake.
Cashman has said that the lack of roster flexibility is a huge problem. The only thing that is gonna fix that is time, as in expiring contracts. It seems to me that he has done little to exacerbate the problem.
Furthermore, people here call for the yankees to call up youngsters to play ahead of the veterans. Um who exactly should they call up? There are NO position prospects at Scranton, and the only one I know of in the organization is Tabata, and he is a couple of years away at least. The years of bad drafting are killing the yankees, and last year was the first one where Cashman had control of that. For the first time we are hearing good things about the prior year’s draft picks. Kennedy and Chamberlain are destroying the Florida State League.
Lets have some common sense here please. I get the feeling that too many people on this blog are relatively new yankee fans who have never lived through a bad period. Everything seems to be going wrong that can go wrong this year. It happens, and the worst thing that can happen is to act too rashly. That can have severe long term implications. think back to the days when the yankees traded away such prospects as Willie Mcgee, Fred McGriff (OK he was blocked by mattingly), Doug Drabek, and numerous others. Lets have a little patience people.
Not if Damon, Giambi or Abreu refuse to waive their no trade clauses.
Which begs the question who, exactly, would want them right now IF they waived their no trades?
Do you really think there is a market for Jason Giambi right now? Aside from his hideous contract, he isn’t hitting, he is hurt, and he is one more flunked greenie test away from being suspended for 50 games.
Oh yeah, and the Grand Jury in California may be re-opening the case against him in the BALCO investigation.
Yeah, sounds like teams will be chomping at the bit for him.
Abreu? Perhaps at the deadline he would waive it for the right team. But, that team isn’t going to give up much if they have no intentions of picking up his option next year.
Damon? Is there a market for him, given the fact he is hurt and not having a good year?
You see, its not so easy to turn “garbage into gold”, as so many Yankees fans seem to think.
Players don’t waive no trade clauses unless there is something in it for them. If you think Damon, Giambi and Abreu are going to waive them, in mid-season no less, just to “help out the Yankees”, you are sadly mistaken.
Not the way it works in the real world.
“The mark of a good GM is not just who he gets but who he keeps.”
Pavano and Farnsworth?
“gargoyle :It’s BS that Damon, Abreu and Giambi can’t be moved. Can they be dealt to Kansas City or Tampa or Pittsburgh? No – but they can be traded.”
And how are you going to get them to waive their NO TRADE CLAUSES ?
Anyone here frightened that Clemens, too, may turn out to be a dud?
Yankee Contracts
Hard to be frightened of a single dud when you already have 4 or 5 in the house.
SJ44,
Do you ever feel like people read what you write and still are so set in there ways they won’t look at something differently.
I’ve been trying to tell people that there is no way that Giambi and Damon get moved, yet people still come up with bizarre ways to cut there salaries off the books. The best was Damon to the Rockies, b/c that makes sense in so many ways. The only way Abreu gets traded is if the team he is moved to picks up his option which probably won’t help the Yanks at all b/c that means they will get less in return.
With 113 games remaining it’s a bit premature to be writing the club off just yet….In the past few years teams who were written off for dead, Twins last season, Houston 2 years ago, Oakland 3 years ago, all came back with strong second halfs….None of these teams had remotely the talent of the Yanks….You think it’s improbable for them to pick up 3 games per month ?? That’s on the premise that the Chowdahead 9 keep playing .700 ball….Get a clue guys….They’ll be making their move soon, and the schedule is favorable in June / July….Remember on July 3rd, 2000 the clib was only 3 games above .500….Hello David Justice, the team went on a tear…They did hit a severe bump in late September however they did thump the Mets in October…..Shame on those who are pointing fingers and giving up….I’m certain those who are, never really played the game above Little League…You grind it out, play the schedule, and you tale the bad streaks knowing that a good run could be a game away…..
Matt, I posted:
“Someone asked a good question above: exactly what great players has Cash traded away? The mark of a good GM is not just who he gets but who he keeps.” I was asking specifically, what “great” players did Cashman get rid of? He has been careful not to trade away talent that we need.
Then you suggest that he is wrong not to have traded Pavano and Farnsworth. Okay: Who in the heck would have taken Pavano? And there might be a market for Krazy Kyle right now, but if they did get rid of him, would you say that Cashman got rid of a “great” player?
And who are you referring to when you say:
“stubbornly keeps the worst signing in franchise history”?
safeathome, no way clemens is going to be a dud. did you hear about what he did last night in scranton? he is releasing the rage. little by little. a reporter insinuated something about his special deal and clemens had none of it.
he banged his fist on the table. the reporters gasped as clemens left the room. you will see what rage unleashed is like on the baseball diamond this weekend in fenway. i hope nobody has bad breath in boston because it’s little things like that that can tip someone over the edge when you have the fury. clemens will release it, and this ragtag group of underperformers will suddenly have the eyes of the tiger and leopards. they will attack relentlessly like the furious hippopotamus of africa: appearing so ddofy and lazy…but watch out. it is one deadly animal.
clemens will bang his fist. the baseball world will shake. the trophy comes home to the new york yankees where it belongs this october. peace will reign again in the five boroughs. boston shall know only darkness for decades, their citizens wandering the dark streets begging for milk an butter.
clemens will bang his fist.
“And who are you referring to when you say stubbornly keeps the worst signing in franchise history�?
Carl Pavano.
“Then you suggest that he is wrong not to have traded Pavano and Farnsworth. Okay: Who in the heck would have taken Pavano? ”
Who cares? Dump him on whoever takes a look. Comparable talent in return wasn’t a prerequisite of the Johnson trade, why should it be one for the Pavano trade?
SafeAtHome:
I’m not as much frightened of him being a bust as I am frightened of the fact that I EXPECT him to be a bust. A paunchy, whiny, aging bust.
And I think the people who are calling for Joe Girardi to manage this team are even more asinine than I am, calling for Bobby V to manage this team.
Girardi might as well have been managing the Bayside High jayvee squad for his roster down in Miami, and he got the kids to win by acting like an old grizzled veteran or a Parris Island drill sergeant. I can’t even begin to tell you how badly that attitude would fly with these Yankees. Bobby V at least is a “player’s manager” with a superb baseball acumen.
From a post Pete had last night
_“if Joe survives this he’s apparently bulletproof.”_
Tonight, it’s _“would Don Mattingly make that much a difference…”_
I think the best move if one is made and in house, would be to Bowa. He can motivate and light the necessary fires under the necessary butts. He is a players manager and refuses to accept losing. I wonder how the meeting last night would have gone if Bowa addressed the team. The word relax would not be included.
In regards to Cash and Igawa – I don’t know if he’ll ever get on top of the baseball when he throws. He was up in the zone in Japan and had good success. Reprogramming can be done, but it’s going to take time and money….more money I should say.
Matt,
Moving RJ was kind of easy since he appeared to still have talent.
I agree the Pavano deal is looking like the worst. But be serious: no one would take him. He finally got healthy this year, and I would bet that if he stayed that way Cashamn would have tried to move him. But in my opinion no one (that is sane) would have taken him prior to Pavano proving he could still pitch.
pat m,
Your points are well taken. No one around here is writing this team off. You can’t get the feeling of this team or this neighborhood or this city from comments on a blog. Even a blog as good as this one. This team will comeback and win this thing.
I think we can pretty much forget replacing the guys with the big contracts. There’s just no market for them. But why can’t they replace Miguel Cairo, Wil Nieves or even Melky???
There’s only 25 spots on the roster and 2 of them are being taken up by players who appear in a box score only once a week. There’s no replacements anywhere, the waiver wire included for these 2 guys?? Jorge Posada is going to be physically wasted by the All Star break if he keeps playing 6 /2 days a week. Other than being Derek Jeter’s good friend, Cairo serves no purpose here whatsoever.
Melky needs to regain his confidence and he ain’t gonna get it being overmatched and swinging at high fastballs from major league hurlers. He should be sent down to Scranton. That move could also serve as a wake up call for his good friend Robinson Cano.
SOMETHING has to be shook up! Why not start with the bench?
joe, I’m a Cashman fan, I think he’s doing the right thing, albeit it a little late. One mistake which is glaring is supposedly Cashman had to choose between trading for RJ or siging Beltran. We see how that one worked out.
Cash is going to have to be placed in a rubber room when he is done. It is like he is snake bitten since 2000. He tries to get the pitching younger from the outside (Contreras, Weaver, Vasquez, Igawa, Wright) and they were all busts, he tries to get more expierenced pitching (Johnson, Pavano, Lidle) and that backfires too.
The new philosphy of stock piling pitching prospects, letting them compete and using some to fill other holes is the right one. Unfortunately Cashman won’t be around to see it pan out. In fact, the next GM will probably undo some of the goodness done with young home grown pitching.
On another note, Yankees haven’t won the world series since each of these things happenned, not to get political or silly, but I just wanted to say it: 1) Bush got elected President, 2) Hillary got elected to the Senate, 3) the World Trade Center was hit. Not to be superstitious but those things should all be undone by 2011, that may be the next time the Yankees parade down the Canyon of Heroes passing the Freedom Tower. That will be a glorious day.
for the remaining 113 games, they need to play 35 games above .500, or win at a 65% clip to reach 95 games, which should be about what it will take to win the Wild Card.
Forget the division. The Saux probably wont play .700 baseball all season, but if they just go .500 for the rest of the year, they’ll hit 92 wins, and i think we all can reasonably say thats not likely to happen, either.
They should have a Wang/Pettitte/Clemens/Moose/Hughes for 2 full months. They have all their games remaining against the Tigers.
They need to focus on winning series, right now.
Nick,
Very true. lol People think firing everybody, throwing stuff across the room, showing “fire”, acquiring more bad contracts (like Todd Helton) is the “trick” that will fix things.
Funny thing is, the Yankees HAVE ALREADY DONE THAT in the past, and the results were a train wreck.
That’s what folks don’t get. When the Yankees did EXACTLY what they are demanding now, they became the laughingstock of sports for over 10 years.
Those of us who lived through that certainly don’t want to live through it again.
Right now, the ONLY thing they can do is play better. They CAN try and do that and that should be the priority right now. There are no magic fixes out there that playing better won’t solve.
Fire Torre? It would be symbolic and little else. In fact, I would only fire him if the person taking over is NOT going to be the manager next year.
Why? Because the team is too flawed for ANYONE to fix this year, and I want a new manager to start fresh from Day One in Spring Training 2008 and not have the stench from this years team on him.
If they want to fire Torre and hire somebody for the rest of the year, as some “chum” to throw to the masses, so be it. But, that guy CAN’T be the manager next year. They need to go in an entirely different direction.
Cash needs to monitor the Texiera situation. He is an important step toward rebuilding. He has enough pitching depth to do that deal (if Texas puts him on the market), has a good relationship with Scott Boras (his agent) and he fits the profile of the “right” kind of Yankee.
If they can get him, whether its at the deadline or in the off-season, it would be a solid first step toward re-making this team.
The rest of the garbage out there, I wouldn’t touch with a ten foot poll. Its just not worth it.
The Turn around will start soon, just don’t know when
gotta keep the faith
june 18th is the deadline day for a turn around or steinbrenner cleans house. that’s the end of a long homestand against the mets. clemens will have pitched three times. the players either get going by then or else.
cashman and torre have no chance being here if the yankees are still in last place. that’s 18 games.
all the slumping all stars except giambi(he’s done until he gets healthy) have until then to snap out of it.
as soon as clemens gets there, it’s time for a players only meeting without torre and the coaches.
i’m telling you, the yankees planned this. that’s why nobody is fired and joe is calm. it’s like rope-a-dope. the yankees are saving their energy for the middle of july through october. mariano rivera will be rested. released like a secret weapon when the other teams are napping.
it’s like in the rocky movies, when rocky would refrain from throwing his left hook for half the match, then switch to his overpowering southpaw style once his oponent got too comfortable. this has all been planned. that’s why joe is so calm. that is why general patton hasn’t fired anyone. this will go on record as the greatest comeback ever and nobody in new england will ever bring up that “from 0-3 to history” crap. the boston fans will be like bad clams when you steam them: shut up, shut down and thrown away.
cashman is a genius and will be giving interviews on all the talk shows in october on “how i made the yankees win.� they’ll make a movie about this season.
it’s like the usa and soviet union. the soviet union pretended to collapse and one day when we least expect it they’re going to come back and take over.
clemens will bang his fist.
Jimbo, I think this offseason has shown that crappy injury prone pitching was in high demand. I just don’t think the players he chose to get rid of and those he kept were a coincidence.
I don’t think there’s a lot that can be done to trade the players we have this year, as has been stated. I like the idea of firing Torre and replacing him with Bowa. The players need to get their @$$es kicked into gear and Bowa is just the guy to do it. Torre’s bad at managing his pitching staff, his in-game moves aren’t working, he’s not motivating the team, he’s not managing his coaching staff, etc. It’s time for a shake up at the top. With this group of talented players, there’s no reason we shouldn’t be in contention.
“I don’t want Hughes and Chamberlain to become the next Prior and Wood. Girardi should be the guy because he’s worked with young pitchers before, as someone already mentioned.”
6 of those young pitchers have seen time on the DL this year most with shoulder and elbow problems
Stop being so damn rational Peter.
This is no time for that.
Where is Raul Modesi when you need him?
Sack ‘em all!
i agree with sj44 . you can fire who you want demote and promote who you like but it all comes down to a 210 million dollar payroll performing like it should .
“OK, like who? The best hitter at Scranton is Shelley Duncan, who has 12 homers and 31 RBI in 44 games but also 35 strikeouts.”
Yeah, Peter, and our DH, has 6 HRs and 19 RBIs in 43 Games with 33 strikeouts! He can’t run, can’t field and is something like 3 for his last 33.. Based on those numbers, Shelley Duncan seems like a better option at this point! DL Giambi until he can prove that he can at least hit!
and another intersting tidbit…..During Mussina’s post-game interview, he was asked what he did to pitch so effective after his last disappointing outing…He began with: “Mel Stottlemyre was in town and we talked about things…...”
Nice endorsement for the current pitching coach, huh?
I still dont understand why Britton is in AAA and Edwar Ramirez should get the call soon..
SJ44 – I was so glad to see what you wrote at 2:25pm today.
It is basically what I have been wanting to say in here but didn’t have the energy or the patience.
Thank you.
“Funny thing is, the Yankees HAVE ALREADY DONE THAT in the past, and the results were a train wreck.
That’s what folks don’t get. When the Yankees did EXACTLY what they are demanding now, they became the laughingstock of sports for over 10 years.”
sj44-
yeah right, 12 years of making the playoffs is really embarrassing. that lousy dysfunctional yankee system produced infinitely better than any younger and cheaper philosophy that any other team had. “younger and cheaper” is a loser philosophy. it doesn’t work. show me one instance it has produced even a five year playoff run.
you’re crossing a line when you bash the 12 year run.
I have been doing the math for a few minutes. From now until July 15, two weeks before the trade deadline, the Yankees have 13 series, totaling 42 games.
If they can go 8-2-3 in those series, 24-18 overall, (doable if this team is as good as some folks think they are), that gets them to 45-46 for the season. Not great but, a helluva lot better than where they are right now and about at the same pace as they were in 1995, when they won the Wild Card on the last day of the season.
They would have 71 games remaining and (realistically) would have to go a minimum of 49-22 to have a shot at the WC.
Not gonna be easy.
On July 15, you see where you are. Five or less games from the Wild Card, you might have to do a deal to take a shot at it.
If they are farther than 5 out of the Wild Card, especially if there are 4 or 5 other teams ahead of them, they will have to SERIOUSLY think about becoming sellers at the deadline.
That’s all they can do between now and July 15. Its in their hands. If they play better, they give themselves a shot at having the second half of the year mean something.
If not, then, somehow, someway, they need to begin the de-construction of this team.
Randy,
I am talking about the 80’s, not the last 12 years.
From 1984-1991, the Yankees had more manager’s, pitching coaches, hitting coaches, GM’s, and had more “dead money” (paying for players who were no longer with the organization) than any team in baseball.
That’s the era I was referring to.
wow. what a last week or so…
SJ44 has very good posts…I do not think Cashman has done a bad job I think in reality this could have happened any of the last 3 to 5 years. nothing is working out at present… all hope is not lost but there is no way they are winning this division. I like people even are bringing up sterling hitchcock as a bad move, that is invredible…
again all the off season dumps were good moves.. they got back young assetts which the Yanks had almost none of. It appears that the last 2 yrs drafts were very good…
the Yanks need to bring up britton, phillips and maybe even Shelly DUncan.. give them some chance.. obviously those moves are not that significant. they need clemens and hughes too pitch and then there staff as legit..
they need to move farnsy, vizciano, and try to pick up some bench help, obviously again not huge moves but can change things..
bruney deserves to get a chance to be the 8th inning guy…use proctor , britton ,and others in the 7th…
the problem with the yanks is not cahsman, torre, or kevin long but it is the performance of every yankee who has undeachieved except; jeter, pettite, bruney, and posada.. I am not aware of any other player who has pulled there wieght so far this year and abreu, giambi, vizciano, and others have just been downright awful….
“I am not aware of any other player who has pulled there wieght so far this year”
A-Rod pretty much carried this team thru April
I like Pollyanna Porkchop.
Her prose is like a random spam generator:
http://sensimilia.eu.org/spam/
Again, I would bring up Britton and Ramirez and pursue trades of Farnsworth and Vizcaino. Both could have trade valu in the NL where they both have been successful. The tirades about trading Giambi, Damon, etc. are utterly unrealistic. This is not going to turn the season around; this lie-up can only do that. But I think these moves might make some incremental improvement. And I would move Torre out and Bowa in on an interim basis for the balance of the year.
oK,so nothing can be done about a terrible bullpen. But some of Torres decisons like bringing in DeSalvo to relieve Clippard in a game they need(when in fact he’s never relieved) I mean come on. I am sick of hearing we are better than this. I do in fact think they are. Are they championship material, no. Will Torre be the manager next season, no. If the Yankees are in fact going to do anything this year, they need a severe kick in the butt. They need a reverse 1978 decision. In 1978 they went from an intense manager (of an intense team) to a laid back one, and came back. This laid back team needs a kick of intensity, so let Larry Bowa take them the rest of the way. I guarantee that will kick it up a few notches. If it doesn’t work, next year is a new season and they can bring in Donnie, Girardi, or anyone else they want. At least maybe we will stop hearing the same old cliche clip that has been running non stop.
When has the younger, more athletic, cheaper philosophy worked?
Let’s see….....how about from 1995-2000, when ranked from fourth to tenth in overall salary, had few “dead money” contracts in tow, a stable manager, front office, and scouting department. The core of their team was developed through the farm system and smart trades, with a few of the right free agents thrown into the mix.
Because of that type of flexibility, they were also able to put together quality benches year after year.
All that did was win 4 World Series.
Let’s see…....From 2001-2007, they spent money like drunken sailors on free agent after free agent. The payroll soared so much, it affected their ability to put together a quality bench. Some of the free agents have embarrassed this organization on and off the field. As the team got older, and more inflexible, the neglect of the farm system made it tougher to mainstream your own guys into the mix.
What has that accomplished? Made the playoffs? Yes. Mainly, on the abilities of the guys who were the core of the Dynasty.
Can you really say spending over a BILLION dollars (which is the number) on salaries from 2001 to now, has made this team “better”?
I can’t say it has.
The best way to build teams are a mix between your farm system, the right trades, and certain free agents. You need flexibility. Without it, you end up in trouble, as we are seeing this year.
Just because you have a lot of money doesn’t mean you always have to spend it.
You have to spend it WISELY. Something the Yankees haven’t done well in recent years.
sj44-
thanks for the clarification. all our tempers are a little short here.
i think the yankees have to go 28 and 14 in those 42 games you mention. 24 and 18 is only .571. that just doesn’t seem enough.
Actually, trading Giambi would have a positive effect because Damon could then take over as DH, which is all he is worth right now. If they trade Giambi, they may actually start grooming someone to take his place or sign/trade for a player who can come in and start. Until he is gone, no one will get to DH or become a full time first baseman because he makes too much money.
Just a slight correctionto something that was stated two times in the above posts.
In Mike Mussina’s post-game interview, he did indeed say that he sought out Mel Stottlemeyer, but he also said he talked to a few others who knew him for a long time and then he also said that he spoke with Gator, too. Just because he wanted some historical perspective does not mean Guidry doesn’t do a good job. Mike Mussina is one of those people who will seek information from many sources (probably in all aspects of his life).
It sure would be nice if people listened to interviews in their entirety.
Mel Stottlemyre also was a big reason Wang developed into an effective picher…
Guidry is no wizard as pitching coach… look at what Peterson is doing as Mets pitch coach – he takes guys like Perez an