Trying to avoid further disaster
-
-
- May
- 30
-
Now 21-29, the Yankees tonight will try and avoid falling nine games under .500 for the first time since 1995, when they were 20-29.
That team finished with 79 wins in a strike-shortened season and earned the wild card.
I noticed quite a few of you complaining that Joe Torre used Scott Proctor instead of Brian Bruney in the 8th inning last night.
Well, as Mark Feinsand of the Daily News pointed out on his blog, Alex Rios was 0 for 8 against Proctor with three stikeouts and was 2 for 2 against Bruney with two doubles. But don’t let a few facts distract you from kicking the manager.
As for the Alex Rodriguez story in the Post today, I don’t really have an opinion.
My job is to cover a baseball team. What these guys do outside of baseball is their business as far as I am concerned. You hear plenty of rumors when you cover a team and usually they are just that, rumors.
If it becomes a distraction to Alex, then it concerns baseball fans. Otherwise it’s just celebrity gossip.
This entry was posted
on Wednesday, May 30th, 2007 at 3:33 pm by Peter Abraham.
You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
The New York Post just gave A-Rod another reason to leave the Yanks.
Way to go!
maybe try batting jeter in the lead-off spot ? and pray to god that clippard can hold his own . i could careless what these guys do when theyre not playing ball but arod adds further distraction to a team that needs full focus on playing and winning ball games .
I am sure that this will not be a distraction to the team. They are probably used to these types of deals.
Peter, that is the best you could do on the Arod story? We were hoping you would have some inside scoop. A “no opinion”? That is weak, man.
Hey Pete
Love the blog but don’t you think the post oversteped the line? and don’t you think it will adverslay afect their beat reporters down the line? Can’t see how any player would talk to them after this. Little shortsigted if you ask me.
good info on proctor vs rios, i hadnt seen that in any of the other papers. i had seen that bruney has more k’s/inn and a higher percentage of groundouts to flyouts. that 0-8 line makes it all moot i guess on why torre went to proctor.
thanks for the info
It’s an A-Blonde for Stray-Rod.
No, weak should be defined as grown adults hoping for a story concerning another grown adult re: his personal life. Baseball is not an obsession that should leak over into the personal lives of the men playing it. If he has his problems or issues, everyone should stay the heck out of it. A Rod is the only reason any of us have any hope at all this season… imagine where we would be without him this year? We’d be 21 games out by now.
Good Job Pete, probaly best you don’t lower yourself to trashy tabloid gossip. I guess if you wrote about everything you knew about baseball players off the field you wouldn’t have the time to talk about what happens on the field. I just think it’s absurd that some people are naive to think he’s the only one who does this kind of stuff and that is if the story is true cause with the Post you never know.
Who cares about A-Rod hanging out with a chick? I dont understand why this is a story at all.
Peter, what happens to the NY Post writer covering the Yankees. Does he get cut off by the players?
Let’s just say for simplicity’s sake, Arod had every right to meet this person. Maybe a friend or something, whatever. That’s his deal.
But what gets me totally sideways is that he’s out after a game like that. I would hope that every Yankee is thinking about how to get out of their hole and play better, not going out late, drinking and running around. I am trying to support the team, but when I see things like this, its tough. It just tells me that they dont care.
The interesting question to me for you to answer, Pete, is whether it’s considered a breach of sorts for The Post to publish this, or is everything considered fair game now?
I wasn’t looking for any juicy info, Hawk, I was looking for a deal of there wasn’t anything to it, now the team will not talk to Post reporters anymore, etc.
I think it is rediculous to put that on the front page of a newspaper.
I said “weak” because if you have been looking at the comments section all day on his last post, that is what everyone wants to know about. When you know most of your readers are expecting something, it is weak to give “no opinion” for your answer.
“that 0-8 line makes it all moot”
This is so wrong it is ridiculous. I am all for using matchup data in determining, in part, which pitcher should face which batter and vice versa. Still, 8 at bats is such an incredibly small sample size that it is almost totally worthless. As has been conclusively shown in The Book hitters and pitchers performance over the course of the season is so much more predictive of what will occur when they face each other than their past performance against one another (especially given such a miniscule sample size).
In other words, 8 at bats versus 2 at bats, regardless of the outcomes of those at bats does not in any way justify choosing Proctor over Bruney. There may be good arguments for picking them the way Joe did but this is not one.
This blog needs a new name. “Whatever Joe Torre Did Today, No Matter How Disatsrous the Result, It Was the Right Move.” I hope you enjoy your new gig as Bigelow Joe’s press secretary. Buh-bye.
Thanks Steve for almost getting me fired by clicking on your name!
Peter,
Any comment on Torre’s failure to even inquire about the interference (or non-interference) at first base last night that precipitated the steal of home? Even if it was not techinically interference by the rules, his first baseman was unnecessarily shoved by the runner approaching first base. He has got to pick his butt up and get out there and scream. How many bad or borderline calls is he going to ignore?
It was not until last night that my frustration brought me to the level that I want Torre fired today (but I could wait until tomorrow, I guess).
Chuck
Sorry, Marc, but be sure to enjoy at a safer time and place…
Jesse G:
I don’t think 8 at bats is an incredibly small sample size. I agree that 2 at bats is not significant.
WemissPaulie: I disagree, they have lives to live. I’m surprised you’re not asking for corporal punishment.
“Let’s just say for simplicity’s sake, Arod had every right to meet this person. Maybe a friend or something, whatever. That’s his deal.
But what gets me totally sideways is that he’s out after a game like that. I would hope that every Yankee is thinking about how to get out of their hole and play better, not going out late, drinking and running around. I am trying to support the team, but when I see things like this, its tough. It just tells me that they dont care.”
Pro athletes go out after a game especially after road games where they aren’t home. Your assertion that because they go out and do grown up activity like go drinking they dont care is stupid.
Dan Mangan (the guy who wrote the story) quoted a ¨witness¨ to say nothing important. This guy should be kicked out of every journalism circle that exists and the Post should be burned. Pete, I know you are focused on the Yankees but I know you have to be amazed when you see what kind of stuff makes it way into print. No ethics at all.
What is it with people expecting players to go home and mope or stew about the day, in order to “prove they care” to fans? Are they supposed to go and don shrouds to show how bad they feel?
I don’t know about anyone else, but after a bad day, the last thing I want to do is stew and mope on it – it doesn’t change anything that happened that day. I want to unwind and relax. I dont think my boss would expect me to go home and work myself up, so why do fans expect players to act like they don’t have lives outside of baseball or like they’re not human?
Pete,
Just say Rios had two doubles in two ABs against Bruney, no need to be sarcastic. Leave that to some of the idiots who post here.
Another reason for Torre to be fired is this: according to baseballprospectus’ pythagorean adjusted win-loss records (based upon the concept that runs allowed and runs scored tell us how many wins a team should have won), the Yankees should be either 27-23 or 28-22. Now, a lot of that difference is close games that the Yanks have lost and in close games there is always the chance of fluky or unlucky things happening. However, a huge factor in the difference between expected or pythagorean wins and a team’s real record is bullpen performance and management. Since this is the area that Torre is most inept at (having virtually ruined player’s careers in the past), I see no reason why anyone would want to keep him on.
“But what gets me totally sideways is that he’s out after a game like that. I would hope that every Yankee is thinking about how to get out of their hole and play better, not going out late, drinking and running around. I am trying to support the team, but when I see things like this, its tough. It just tells me that they dont care.”
Right because after work, I know I go home and think about nothing but work and do more work at home and then go to sleep dreaming about work. Because when I stop working, I don’t care about my job.
Its arods personal life.. let him do what he wants.
if this thing doesnt get turned around in the next week or so.. cash has trade several guys for youth. for once we will be in a position to trade our contracts to contenders for youth..
also, abreu needs to be benched for a few weeks and play melky. first to see if he really can produce and increase his trade value.
Basura, what I am saying about 8 at bats being a miniscule sampe size is not my opinion, it is statistically verified truth. I hate to sound like an inflexible jerk but in this case there has been research done that proves what I am saying.
Check out this excerpt (http://www.insidethebook.com/c03.shtml) from “The Book” by Tom Tango, Michael Lichtman, and Andrew Dolphin. If you want to read the whole explanation just buy “The Book” from Amazon. You will never be able to look at baseball the same way again.
I must say I’m disappointed in Peter’s hostility toward the fans on this blog who happen to have a different opinion than him about Torre. “Don’t let a few distract you to kicking (sic) the manager.” First of all, I have to say I personally never commented about any of this, but on behalf of those who did, they can’t be faulted for not having easy access to such data. Second, and more important, even if they had this info, are you really calling a sample size of TWO an important FACT? Jesus, two cases, against the trends of how each has been pitching overall lately? I agree that there’s plenty of over-reaction on this (and any) blog, but to get all patronizing with sample sizes of 2 and 8 in your back pocket seems rather absurd, and mean-spirited. Now I am NOT saying that Torre was or wasn’t wrong for bringing in Proctor, but to be so incredulous that fans might want to see Bruney over Proctor does not seem fair, especially given the very weak “facts” they didn’t have access to.
That’s right – Rios is truly a 3.000 OPS hitter vs. Bruney and a 0.000 OPS hitter against Proctor. Don’t let 10 at bats (none in 2007) prevent you from making an egregious overstatement.
Facts are accessible to anyone with a computer and internet – which everyone here has – if you need any other stats – just google them.
Like I did:
“Bruney vs Rios”:http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=bruney+vs+rios
And got this:
“Yahoo Sports”:http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7254/batvspit?year=2006&type=Batting
But if you have been reading this blog, a lot of people are spewing off about bruney vs proctor in a pretty vicious manner so I don’t see his comments as hostile, but recipritory.
The stats of Bruney or Proctor vs Rios are meaningless at this point. Any move Torre makes blows up. Torre always has an excuse and he has needed many excuses of late. Any individual move can be justifed but when nothing is working, it is time for a change.
Bravo Pete for not even getting into this Post story on ARod. As you said you are there to cover baseball. It is pure gossip and did not belong on the front page as “news”. (Most of the time this stuff is not true anyway.) What the players do on their time is their business.
10 at bats is better than none. And hindsight is always 20/20. If Proctor had gotten out of the inning with no runs scored, no one here would be flapping gums about how right they were *after* the fact. Just like the same people here calling the Abreu trade “horrible”, were singing praises to Cashman for bringing him here when the Yankees swept the Sox after the Son of the Boston Massacre. Those glasses must be pretty pink and every fan’s got ‘em.
I am not even second guessing after the moves. I was screaming for Bruney last night and on Sunday.
I see the point on the matchups Proctor vs. Bruney. However, that’s not exactly a large sample size. Also, in that situation you aren’t just worried about a guy getting a hit, you have to be worried about the guy getting the ball out of the infield. The argument for Bruney is he has a substantially better K/9 and G/F ratio than Proctor does both this season and career-wise. I think that should have been the deciding factor in bringing an arm in from the bullpen. Not to mention this:
“Right-hander Scott Proctor, who was sidelined Monday evening with a stomach virus, was available for Tuesday’s game, Torre said. Proctor spent part of the afternoon carefully sipping protein shakes to test his system before working out.”
Unless Scottie was working on throwing a vomit-ball, I don’t know if I’d be bringing in a guy who can barely hold down liquids.
Chuck – I agree with you.SOMEONE should have argued for interference on the play at 1st base last night. I fully appreciate that Torre doesn’t want to use the umpires as an excuse for the Yanks pathetic play. But someone has to put up a fight when Phillips was clearly out of the basepath and the running lane!
I would have gone with Bruney for the simple fact that strikeouts were needed with Lind on third. A fly ball basically loses the game, so you need your best K man on the hill. Bruney, with 23 Ks in 24 innings, has to be the call. (Proctor – 15 Ks in 25.1 IP).
Guidry has to share in whatever blame you place on Torre, however. Why Joe Kerrigan isn’t the pitching coach of this team, I have no idea.
And from the Jorge Posada Breakdown Watch Desk comes the news that his knee is acting up and Nieves will likely get the start tonight.
I love how no one is placing blame for this horrendous stretch of misery on the one group of people who deserve it the most: THE PLAYERS!! Torre’s supposed mismanagement has ZERO to do with the fact many of our heavy hitters are stinking up the joint!
What a great idea, folks: Fire the one man who’s supported them since he first sat in the dugout, the one man they ALL respect. Yeah, fire Torre — that’ll get them hitting again….
Blame the players!!!!
Matt (another one),
Besides the 23 Ks, he hasn’t given up a run in a month!
sunny, are you quite sure that people weren’t saying it was a bad move BEFORE Proctor failed? i personally don’t fault cashman for bring in abreu — based on the facts at the time, it was a reasonable move. but based on the facts of the time — including the whopping sample sizes of 2 and 8 — a lot of people had every reason to believe it would be better to give bruney a try right now in a key situation than the overused proctor. (i hope proctor nails ortiz in the elbow over the weekend and then gets suspended for a week, to give him some more rest.)
How would you like to be George King, the Yankees beat writer for the Post today? You think players are going to be talking to him anytime soon?
The Post just made their beat writer a “dead man” in the Yankees locker room.
He might as well leave the beat now. I can’t imagine anybody on the Yankees talking to anybody from the Post for a long time.
Its a shame because whatever Arod did or didn’t do, has nothing to do with the Yankees record this season.
If the players feel like the media is “going too far”, they clam up, and it not only makes the media’s job harder, it gives us fans less information about the team.
Can’t see how this is good for anybody.
Yea, that is the thing. At this point most of us aren’t “second-guessing” the moves Torre makes vis-a-vis the bullpen. Rather, we are first-guessing the stupid moves we know he is going to make.
I think everyone is forgetting that Proctor also literally blew his arm up for this team last year. Where are those fans thanking Proctor for his work for that? Ah yes, “what have you done for me lately??”
Pete, I know you want to stay away from this story, but a couple of buddies of mine who live in Toronto (who are not on speaking terms with one another, I might add) just im’ed me (the other called) saying that A-Rod’s wife is in Toronto and was staying at the same hotel…last…night…
OK, I’m back. It’s awful this kind of talk is spreading and I’e really no interest in gossip. But are you hearing anything like this?
If it’s true, I gotta say it——Here’s to you Mr. and Mrs. Rodriguez.
sunny615 you are totally off-base. I think most of us would love to thank Proctor for what he went through last year. That doesn’t mean we can’t be annoyed by his performance this year (which, in actuality, hasn’t been that bad). In addition, it doesn’t mean that we can’t criticize Joe Torre when he brings Proctor into situations when he has other better options.
Also, let’s not forget that it was Joe Torre and his terrible, “burn out their arms I don’t care,” management of the bullpen last year that “literally blew his arm up…last year.”
I gotta hand it to the NYPost, that was a very witty headline (stray-rod).
As to the cheating, who cares. Fellas, this is baseball and we’re the Yankees. We’re in no position to moralize, lest we scrub Bambino, Mantle, and others from our history books. Its part of the game (Wade Boggs-Margo Adams anybody). And say it wasn’t sports, who cares besides his wife and family.
Though as a gossipnista, I love reading about this. Woo Hoo!! Move over Lindsay Lohan, here come A-Rod (ooops, no pun intended). Hell, this might make Keith Olbermann’s show!!
The Post said that she wasn’t in Toronto
So, if Bruney comes in and gives up a homer to Rios, is Torre still a genius or a loser because he didn’t go with the guy who blanked Rios 8 times vs the guy who gave up two doubles to him in 2 tries?
Pete:
Your facts would only be relevant if giving up a fly ball out wasn’t AS BAD AS giving up a hit. Every statistic you look at would suggest Rios was a great candidate to fly out againt Proctor. While Bruney may have been more likely to give up a hit, he was also more likely to record a strikeout, which ultimately was the only positive outcome that could have come from that AB.
its a shame
this prob punches ARod’s ticket out of NY
unbelieveable, who cares what he does off the field
Steve — I can see you being disappointed over it, but does it really shock you? Pete takes shots at fans here all the time when they disagree with Torre’s decisions. Comments like the one you mentioned are out of line, in my opinion, but par for the course with Pete. (He also has a defensive “You’re all taking it too seriously” comment to fall back on when people point this out.) His inside information is great, but the attitude that comes with it at times — aimed at his readers, no less, the very same people who drive traffic to this site — makes me cringe.
An interesting thing about that ‘95 season, where the Yankees started off 20-29: at that time, they were 10 games out of the wild card. Only two teams in the AL (chicago and minnesota) were worse. Additionally, they were actually in even worse position than this year’s team because, due to the strike, it was already June 20 when this happened.
There are a lot of parallels between the two teams, including a bullpen where only one guy finished the season with and ERA below 4 (wetteland). The rotation was younger then, but there were some similarities, including a big veteran ace acquired in-season (Cone-Clemens), a solid veteran #2 (McDowell-Pettitte), a young ace-in-the-making (Pettitte-Wang/Hughes), a mediocre at best #4 starter (Hitchcock-Mussina), and a mish mosh of people in and out of the 5th slot. The lineup also featured regulars with .237, .245, and .247 batting averages (pat kelly, fernandez, gerald williams) and some flat-out atrocious OBPs. It’s a pretty similar club.
It’s not going to be easy, but it’s certainly possible to make the comeback.
best comment of the day, in my opinion: Nigel’s “Unless Scottie was working on throwing a vomit-ball, I don’t know if I’d be bringing in a guy who can barely hold down liquids.”
woodis good: I ask you, if Torre can’t be blamed at least in part for the team’s under-performance, does he deserve credit for when they do well? why? and why is being paid 7.5 million dollars a year, if, really, it’s all up to the players?
sunny: i didn’t see the news story last year that proctor’s arm literally blew up. Now THAT should have made the cover of the Post
To everyone saying “This is going to make A-Rod leave” — why? Is this any better or worse than the photos of him *gasp!* sunbathing in Central Park last year? He’s a grown man. I’m sure he’ll leave NYC to play on a contending team, not because some tabloid may have caught him with some other woman.
Summer, you may be right. It seemed more over the top than usual, but maybe that’s more about my own mood today than his. It’s sad, because so much of the reporting is so good, but this stuff does put a damper on it for me.
Summer — I was saying you may be right about the Pete comment. On the other hand, I don’t agree with what you just said about the tabloid story. I think being caught with another woman (IF that’s what it was) is much worse than being caught sunning in the park with your wife. Much, much more damaging.
Pete, I just have to say…the professionalism that comes out of this blog as well as your writing is top notch. I hope you continue to do what you do. This is definately the place I come for my yankee info. Plus, a lot of people are complaining about you supporting torre. listen guys, pete can’t inject too much opinion in his journal news articles everyday, so at least let him voice his opinion on HIS blog. Whether or not we agree with him, we still shouldn’t insult his opinions.
i work in a field where people can die on me every time i work. i have a family outside of work, and i love my yankees. everytime i had something go wrong do u think i mope. cannot. you move on. live your life. baseball is a game. i enjoy watching it and talking about it. the players have to live their lives. as far as arod is concerned, count on him opting out. thank u ny post for running the story. cash SHOULD think about entertaining offers, unless of course he knows something about arod we don’t. i am tired of the yankees fielding a team of allstars at every position. look where that has gotten us. if arod goes, then bring back mike lowell. we will survive. we did it w/ brosius. but it is not over yet, and there is still hope. but these yankees do need to play with some fire. where is paul oneill when you need him. just remember you cannot always be on top. we have become spoiled as yankee fans. making the playoffs every year is nice, but being able to field a competitive team w/ players who are uniformly hungry is nicer.
i saw an earlier post on the blog about the mutts. can’t say i like em. i remember 86 all too well w/ the fair weather mets fans who disappeared once the mutts reverted to their true form. but i was listening to the game last night. close to 11p. bottom of the 12th. no outs. jose reyes up. i KNEW they were going to win. they have heart, and alas my yankees do not. i will keep an eye on the other ny team w/ heart. cannot say i will pull for them entirely, but i live in ct. lots of sux fans up here. am outnumbered. so push come to shove in october i will pull for ny over boston anyday, whether it’s the yanks or the mutts. say what you will about the mutts, they are an exciting ballclub. hate pedro martinez, f’ing loser, but ya gotta root for willie randolph, david wright, carlos beltran, el duque…
Fat Actress Q& A on Arod and Mariano
[quote]
http://38pitches.com/2007/05/25/qa-xiii/#more-85
Some of these questions are obviously from earlier posts. I’ll catch up if time permits this week.
Q-Who do you think is a better closer at this point, Papelbon or Rivera?
A-Not a question that can be answered with anything but opinion really. Mariano is, in my opinion the best closer of all time. His resume better be a unanimous first ballot Hall of Fame one. On the other hand I think Paps is the best closer in the game right now.
Q-What do you think is different about Alex this year? Is it because he’s thinner, doesn’t care since this is his walk year, has learned from his first 2 years NY? Did you handle Alex differently tonight knowing on the tear he has been on then in season’s pass?
A-I think the biggest change is based on what he stated early in the year. He trimmed down and feels like he’s quicker this year.
Q-I was wondering what your opinion of the job Hideki Okajima did. Did he pitch his butt off or what? I mean, he had to face Jeter, Abreu, and A-Rod (and Thompson as well) and only gave up the walk.
A-He’s been nothing short of phenomenal this year. A huge lift for us and given how well our pen has been as a whole it’s been one of, if not the reason we have gotten off to the start we have.
Q-do you think Mo has maybe hit some sort of wall, mental or physical. the man has been hands down the most dominant closer of our generation(I’m 28). and has done so for 10+ years…he has to eventually fade away.
A-Not at all. Having closed I can tell you one of the hardest parts of closing, and relieving, is staying sharp while not consistently pitching. Most relievers will tell you that being able to throw on a semi-regular schedule far outweighs any other factors when it comes to staying sharp.
Q-Quick question. I know it was brought up on SoSH a lot, but A-Rod currently looks like he’s so comfortable in the batter’s box that he may as well bring a laz-y-boy chair and a pitcher of margaritas. Is there any reason why not to try and brush him back once or twice and make him think a little more?
A-This was written after our first series obviously. Bottom line is that you go into a game with a plan for everyone, and guys that are as hot as he was that’s no different. You have smaller margin for error obviously but you have to execute. Coming in on guys to make them uncomfortable is one way of doing it for sure, but the only pitches that have an effect on a hitter on the inside part of the plate are pitches that something happens with. Breaking a guys bat, jamming him badly, knocking him down on occasion. If you aren’t getting one of those results then most times you are wasting pitches.
Posada Hurt
Just when you thought it couldn’t get any worse there is news that posada is dealing with a sore tendon behind his left knee and that he may sit down a few games. That’s all we need is for Nieves to be our starting catcher. WTG on planning the backup Cashman. At least this might start the firing ball rolling faster without Posada’s bat.
May 30 Bryan Hoch, of NewYork.Yankees.MLB.com, reports New York Yankees C Jorge Posada (knee) has been nursing a sore tendon behind his left knee and could sit Wednesday, May 30. Posada might also sit so that he would be good to go in all three upcoming games against the Boston Red Sox.
Can’t we all just get along?
Sunny: Are you retarded? We should agree with Torre and thank him for bringing in Proctor BECAUSE HE PITCHED 100 INNINGS last year??
“Thanks Proctor, here pitch some more innings!”
I called for Bruney the moment Torre was headed to the mound. Why? Fantastic K/9 and better ground/fly than Proctor. Not to mention he has a better average against/obp against/slg against. Not to mention he NEVER gets used in the right situation. Not to mention Proctor gets used in EVERY situation.
What would I do if Bruney gave up a HR? I would be shocked, because his HR/9 is .4!!! Proctors is 1!! Proctor had more than double the percentage chance of giving up a home run that AB than did Bruney. Not to mention he had a higher chance of getting a fly ball in general. Not to mention he had a higher chance of allowing Rios to put the ball in play.
GOD everything about putting in Proctor was a mistake! Bruney has a 269 ERA+!!!! 269!!!!!!!!!!!!
the funniest thing about Pete’s sarcastic line about not “letting the facts get in the way of kicking the manager”, is that he actually thinks he has come up with some slam dunk stat, when, in fact, his reveling in the absurdly small sample size of 10 at bats instead of the much broader (and more genuine) one of the entire season, shows him to be a myopic Torre sycophant. What else is new?
Here he is trumpeting something he thinks makes him look smarter and “right”, when in actuality it does the reverse. Sweet irony.
Of course Bruney should have been the guy in that spot.
Two thoughs
* ARod cheats. I guess he really is a Yankee!!
* A NYT reporter once told me, playas love Toronto – it has the best night clubs (wink, wink) in the league. HA! And he would know, the lech (love ya, dude).
I really like the vomit ball idea.
*But don’t let a few facts distract you to kicking the manager.
Terry– no the funniest thing about his quote is that there’s a typo in it. Clearly he meant “don’t let a few facts distract you FROM kicking the manager.” I guess he let a little of his righteous indignation on behalf of Joe Torre distract him “to” proofreading his blog posts.
Vomitball > Gyroball
Pete’s “negativity.”
Its obvious to anyone who reads this blog that Pete is a basically decent/nice person, so if you find his remarks somewhat sarcastic or negative maybe its just his way of expressing some frustration at having to wade through the tons of stupid and caustic remarks that get posted. Not to mention the really biting things that some over-aggressive rats aim at other posters and at him. He’s not your pal or your mother — give the man (and the rest of us) a break!
Vomitball = sick ’stuff’
Sox, you really shouldn’t be so negative with your mother. Seriously, send her some flowers.
Pete,
You’re being disingenuous and cherry-picking facts to defend Torre. You wrote the following: “Alex Rios was … 2 for 2 against Bruney with two doubles. But don’t let a few facts distract you to kicking the manager.”
Rewind to Sunday’s game. NEARLY IDENTICAL SITUATION: close and late, one on, starter coming out. Torre puts in Proctor instead of Bruney. But this time, it is against Proctor that Howie Kendrick was 2 for 2 with 2 doubles (he then hit his third double off Proctor, in case you forgot). But don’t let those facts get in your way from defending the manager.
check mate.
Jesse G;
The reason we’re 2-10 in one run games is simple – Rivera. He has 3 losses and 5 blown saves. In past years he would have nailed down, say, 7 of those 8 losses. In which case we’d be 28-22, as the run differential stat that you correctly quoted suggests. But because Mo has attained god-like status (and earned it) no one can bring themselves to put his performance under the microscope. His ERA and WHIP are a far cry from his career numbers. We’d rather bash Torre, Abreu, Giambi, et al.
Having said all that, I’m surprised at all of the discussion in this thread about Proctor vs. Bruney. With man on third and one out, the game was clearly on the line. We needed a K, a pop or a grounder. Hit or fly was a loser. That should have meant Rivera! Instead we lose and Mo is left sitting with cobwebs on him.
wow, don’t blame the pitching staff here, the offense should be able to do better and that’s the main reason why they lost yesterday. The offense has gone quiet.
what about when off the field crap is affecting a team/clubhouse/game? look at giambi, proctor, arod, the saga or torre now. you cant say none of this is having an impact.
2006
Bruney’s BAA at Roger’s Centre .364
Proctor’s BAA at Roger’s Center .148
Proctors ERA vs Toronto 1.15 ERA |.132 BAA
Bruney’s ERA vs Toronto 2.25 | .353 BAA
2007
Bruney
.2 IP vs Toronto
Proctor
.1 IP vs Toronto
I’ve seen pics of A-rod doing alot of things away from the ballpark. Why is this a story? Because they’re in a losing streak? What’s he supposed to do sit in the hotel and watch MSNBC? What the hell? The people at the post are total wankers.
I don’t know why Peter chooses to back Torre, but he certainly has a right to do so as a baseball fan. His being a writer should have no bearing on his opinion. Not for nothing, but none of us (likely) have ever had but an iota of the access that Peter does to the team, so I’m sure his opinion is at the very least informed. And that’s the litmus test for opinions, whether I am in agreement with them or not.
Anyone else think that Peter would defend Torre if the situation was reversed? Let’s say Torre brought in Bruney, and we all clamored for Proctor because Rios was 0 for 8 against him. We all post here about how Torre should go with the best matchup history, Rios hits Bruney hard, Proctor is the better choice, etc.
Is there any doubt in anyone’s mind that Peter comes back with “In that situation you need a strikeout above anything else. Bruney’s K/9 is 9, while Proctor’s is 5.47. But that’s fine, don’t let a few facts get in the way of your Torre-bashing”?
Seriously, this is nuts.
Steven-
Nice. We outta take a meeting, maybe we can co-produce somethin’
Marc- Fired? For what? Swimsuits? Ya gotta be kiddin’ me, who do you work for Fox Noise?
If Torre put in Bruney last night, and he didn’t get the job done, people would say, “How could he do that? Rios is 2-2 against Bruney and he is 0-8 against Proctor? Why didn’t he use Proctor”?
I can get on Torre for his move as much as anybody.
But, right now, it doesn’t matter WHAT he does. Nothing has worked.
I can’t kill that move last night.
Stats? You can make the stats look however you want them to look like.
Bruney has pitched in less stressful situations than Proctor this season. So, quoting his stats really aren’t an apples to apples deal.
Last night was about the offense as much, or more, than pitching changes. They didn’t hit another mediocore pitcher again. They also were horrible defensively again.
One last thing. Why are people getting so vile with Peter? What did he do to some of you, steal your girlfriends?
Debate the points but don’t make it personal. Is that so hard to do?
Its a fun blog with a lot of good people in it. Let’s not lower it to degrading levels by acting like 5 year olds.
SJ44-
i agree that keeping it friendly and not getting personal is the way to go, but i do think some people (myself included) get a little put off by Pete’s tendancy to drop condescending/know it all comments. This naturally leads to some resentment.
I wouldnt mind if he just disagreed with me, but i dont like being talked (or in this case, written) down to.
James Nordon -
I think the story is funny, but you touch on another angle – Hyprocrasy.
* NY Post editor-in-chief Col Allan is a frequent visitor to the Manhattan strip club Scores. However, Allen is comped by the club, and did not have to pay to watch the women strip. He also receives sexual favors from women provided by the club in a private room. “source”:http://www.nypost.com/seven/05182007/gossip/pagesix/lies__smears_aimed_at_post_pagesix_.htm
* In Fall 2001, Page Six was ordered to kill a story about a Chinese diplomat and a strip club that would have angered the Communist regime and endangered [News Corp. Chairman Rupert] Murdoch’s broadcasting privileges.
Thank you SJ once again an insightful comment. Just because we all do not agree with not only each other but with Pete does not mean that we need to lower ourselves to kindgergarten and nursery school name calling. It is simply amazing what people say behind the cover of a computer screen.
Well said, SJ. I went on vacation for a week and since I got back have found it hard to get back into this thing because of all the crap comments, I can’t be bothered to wade throught it myself most of the time, and don’t envy Pete if he has to read every word.
“The Post said that she wasn’t in Toronto”
The Post said she was nowhere to be seen. Big difference.
“Cynthia Rodriguez – A-Rod’s wife and mother of their 2 1/2-year-old daughter, Natasha – was nowhere to be seen during the slugger’s big night out on the town”
how did mine and jk’s posts get intertwined with Dr. Acula’s? this thing is strange sometimes……
sunny615, no one’s particularly upset about Proctor. He just let up a sac fly. And this wouldn’t have been a noteworthy move by Torre if he often turned to Bruney in high-leverage situations, and this was just Proctor’s turn. Instead, Torre going to Proctor over Bruney was just another example (albeit not a particularly egregious one) of how he plays favorites.
In terms of Torre’s recent missteps, going to Proctor here was not as bad as pulling Clippard or leaving Proctor in for three walks on Sunday. It’s just more of the same tired style that has gotten us nowhere this season and has helped make us 2-10 in 1-run games.
I applaud you Pete for coming up with an intriguing argument for putting in Proctor over Bruney, although I doubt Torre considered it at the time. Also, I still don’t understand your unwillingness to admit the possibility that Torre’s critics have a point.
The more the season slips away, the more we need to know what we’ve got in Bruney. He could be this year’s only big break for us. He could be anything between a bust that cost us nothing to Rivera’s eventual replacement. Torre needs to go to him in tough situations and see what he’s got.
Wow, my post got swallowed up by Dr. Acula’s somehow.
SJ – Thanks again for such an insightful comments. Just because we disagree with one another or with Peter there is no reason to resort to kindergarten and nursery school comments. It is simply amazing what people say behind the veil of a computer screen.
On another note something that I have been thinking about the past few days do today’s player rely too much on film for scouting rather than old fashion people scouting. You always hear about first time pitchers having an advantage cause players have not seen him and there is no film. In the past there was not the technology. I believe that I have heard that many teams have great;ly reduced thier MLB scouting departments and are using film etc more.
Dr. Acula, yes it’s really a shame that they make it out to be a crime for A-Rod to take a breather, but not surprising from a rag like the Post.
By the way, Dr. Acula, it’s a great idea for a movie. What do you think?
the toronto fans are relatively polite,but when arod hits fenway, he’s going to hear every joke in the book. it’s going to be interesting if he shuts them up or he shuts down . never a dull moment with arod.
red sox fans throw beer and pizza on each other when theyre not knocking out each others teeth. cant expect a-rod or any yankee to get a break there
Posada is playing tonight so some Boston clown had the usual erronous inaccurate post.
win tonight and get a day off.. the yare not winning the division but do have a chance at the wildcard. I watched Minny win today after being down 6 -1 today.
they got 8 walks and scored in the 9th without hitting the ball out of the infield.
the whitesox are having some difficulty at present….
the central division will kill each other all year… watch…………………..
sorry guys, I don’t know what happened.
I guess my post was so powerful, that even though I misspelled hypocrisy, it snagged a hole in the space-time continuum and it’s swallowing up all the other posts.
Steve,
“your mother” not my mother (you mother). Believe me, you don’t want to discuss your mother in these posts. Great reading skills.
Pete,
Thanks for a great blog.
i think the comment section has gone koo koo
dr.acula is devouring all of the posts
In A-Rod’s limited defense, he isn’t distracting the Yankees by cheating on his wife. The Post is by printing stupid crap that is irrelevant to baseball and may even be making something out of nothing.
Some people need to get real.
Joe’s decision about using Proctor last night is not what lost the game (with the data about Rios, I happen to agree with Torre’s move). What lost it was their not hitting a mediocre pitcher. In 3 of last 4 games, they’ve gotten quite good starting pitching, but wasted the efforts for lack of hitting. No managerial change will make Abreu, Matsui, or Cano stop trying to pull outside pitches.
As for the A-Rod story, it’s nothing more than cheap gossip. And newspapers have never let a deficiency of facts get in the way of scandalizing something or someone. Or potentially hurting innocent people, in this case Alex’s family. Take it from someone who has personally had something very innocent turned into something spiteful by jealous idiots.
Re: ARod’s situation …. A few fans are outraged that he is out carousing instead of practicing his swing in his hotel room. I’d remind those fans that baseball players are on a very strange schedule, wherein the majority of games are played at night. That means that, by definition, their after-hours time period is early in the a.m. I don’t care about the morality of it, either, but he shouldn’t be castigated for not “calling it a day” before midnight. His work day start in the late p.m., and the rest of his schedule falls into line.
Also, this episode WILL affect the Yankees – NEXT YEAR. He’d be an idiot to stay in NY now that he knows how mean-spirited the journalistic standards have become in the city. We eat our youg here in NE when it comes to sports reporting, but never has the “news” department of a newspaper so blatantly attempted to destroy a player, and his family. This is low.
I’m no fan of ARod the man, but he doesn’t deserve this.
The Post guy won’t get punished by the Post. They encouraged this I’m sure. Screw it, I know they did.
“The Yankees draft 30th and then not again until 95.”
sj44-
how are the yankees supposed to build a farm system when they get one player out of the first 94 picks.
i realize that they can sign foreign players that not part of the draft, but what are your ideas how to get around this.
if the yankees are going to get most of their players from latin america in the future, don’t you think the managment should at least have some diversity in the front office who speaks spanish like minaya?
LOL! I’m gettin’ emails asking me if ARod has a prenup and what about community property! Ha!
I just turned on ESPN. it’s splashed all over.
Oh, if there is a Santa, we’ll see ARod pulling a Kobe like press conference apologizing to his wife.
What a trifecta: Lindsay is falling down all over the place, Paris is going to Alcatraz, and media is sniffing in ARod’s laundry bin.
“If Torre put in Bruney last night, and he didn’t get the job done, people would say, “How could he do that? Rios is 2-2 against Bruney and he is 0-8 against Proctor? Why didn’t he use Proctorâ€??”
Beat me to it. There are people that will second-guess ANY move (or non-move) that Torre makes when it fails, and they will claim to know better. Small sample sizes or not, they will always say they would have done the opposite. Torre has made some poor moves like anyone else, but he’s getting far too much blame and negativity thrown his way.
That A-Rod may have been cheating is speculation. Maybe it was an escort or a friend or in other words not sexual. Point is nobody knows. As I wrote before, it’s irrelevant. I really hate this crap in papers, on TV, etc. It’s total shite. I’d like to say the Post should know better, but their entire existence is based on making something out of nothing
Pete…cheap shot to post that here…just as cheap as the Post for printing it. Really surprised that you would do that. It’s none of our business what any of these guys do and you know it…
Lightin’ up Jim
Pete is only covering what every radio and television station is covering. Guess what, its even on ESPN.
Like any reasonable person, I LOVE a good “train-wreck.” I mean, doesn’t everybody go “oooooooh” when fireworks explode? Rumors and cheap gossip run NYC. God help us if it ever changes.
That’s easy Randy.
The Baseball Draft is not like the NFL or NBA Draft. You find a lot of guys in the later rounds of the draft for various reasons.
First, the bonuses aren’t slotted, no matter how much Bud Selig tries. Second, some teams don’t like drafting Scott Boras or Randy Hendricks players, for example and that pushes guys down the draft list.
Give you an example. Matt LaPorta from the University of Florida, the premier power hitter in college baseball the last two years, is a Scott Boras client. He was drafted by the Red Sox last year and Boras and the Red Sox couldn’t come to an agreement and LaPorta went back to Florida for his senior year.
Some mock draft lists I have seen have the Yankees taking LaPorta at #30. Mainly, because teams don’t like dealing with Boras, and the Yankees have been paying “over the slot” bonuses (ie: More than MLB wants them to pay) in recent years.
Its how the Yankeess signed the two best closers in college baseball last year, Mark Melancon from Arizona and David Robertson from Alabama. Both guys were taken late (8th and 10th rounds, IIRC) and both got second/third round bonus money.
Melancon is out for the year with TJ Surgery (he is progressing well. I saw him in Tampa). He was dominant in Staten Island and Hawaii last year.
Robertson is in Charleston right now and has been lights out. Pitching to an 0.30 ERA and is averaging over a strikeout an inning. I would be shocked if he didn’t finish the year in Tampa and/or Trenton. He is going to be a very good relief pitcher in the majors.
Also, more than any other sport, baseball is about developing talent. You see guys all the time go lower in the draft yet become superstars (Albert Pujols was a 7th round pick, Don Mattingly a 17th round pick, for example).
A big reason is that, when you draft high school players, they all develop at different stages. Phil Hughes is an example of that.
I remember when he was drafted. They liked him but, they NEVER thought he would be this good this quick. In fact, some thought Jeff Marquez, drafted after Hughes, would be in the majors before Hughes. Marquez is pitching very well for Trenton this year and has a big league future. Hughes, though is special and developed faster.
More than the other sports, its not where you draft in the baseball draft, its how well you scout, and how well you develop players. That’s the key.
One last thing on the ARod stuff. If anybody thinks this helps the Yankees, you are nuts.
It just got harder to attract free agents to the Yankees with this nonsense. A rotten shame.
Dr. Acula –
As long as you learn to not take anything too seriously. And as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone. I’m one of the “rubberneckers” on the highway, but I always say a prayer that no one was hurt, and if someone was, that they’ll be okay. (I guess then I don’t feel so guilty about looking in!)
For all we know, A-Rod, Cynthia and “the blonde” are having one good laugh over all this! If that’s the case, A-Rod’s not going to opt out because of it. If not, that’s a different story altogether.
If NYC (and NJ – McGreevey’s sordid little story) didn’t have rumors and cheap gossip, too many people might be paying attention to the “other” stuff — you know, taxes, crime, etc.
* this is a test *
# another test #
I was trying to get out of the box. I think we need sunny615 to undo this!
Posada’s in
Melky’s in, Bobby’s out
Phelps is in, Minky’s out
We have no business talking about ARod’s personal life. He is a grown man entitled to do as he pleases and what he does or does not do outside the field does not concern any of us. And I won’t say anything more in regards to that.
*with regards…
*no wait, in regards…
Please forgive me if this question has been asked before. If so I missed it. Being down here in Texas we of course do not get Yankee broadcasts. If I remember Paul Oneil is involved in one wayor another with Yankee air time. If so I can’t but wonder what this great Yankee Warrior has had to say about our dilemma. Any brief conclusions would be appreciated. Thanks.
At what point to we roll it up and call it a season. I am not saying we should give up on it right now, however when do you clean house. Can we, with all these enormous contracts? We have some great talent to build around, both in veterans and in some young guys. I keep hearing of the trade deadline and how we need to upgrade here or there so we can hopefully get to the post season. Yet other teams with similar records or better are rumoured in cleaning house trade deadline moves. Why can’t we? Get a little something out of our lost season. The reality of getting into the postseason are slim to none. I will watch every game as a fan and enjoy them even the losses, because I am watching my Yanks. Never in a million years did I imagine thinking this way. Like a devil ray fan. But could we not get some nice little pieces to continue building on in trades. Put Mariano, Giambi, Igawa, Abreu, Melky, Minky, Moose, Farnsworth, myers, villone,….Clean house. I know for some we will have to eat some salary or get not as much in return. That is the price we pay. There will be some talented free agents to go after. Pick up a pitcher or two to go with Wang, Hughes, Pettite(if he will return). We should take advantage of our losing season by cleaning house, eating what we have to and picking up the pieces via free agency and trade to come back and get another damn ring. This season is brutal.
Long before there were sabremetrics or the book on matchups or even THE BOOK, there was a law – the law of averages. When a guy is 0-8 against one pitcher and 2-2 against another, the law of averages suggests he is more likely to get a hit against Proctor and not against Bruney, nevermind HOW they might get an out.
AND since you needed a strikeout there, on average, that is more likely to happen when Bruney is pitching than Proctor.
2 for 2 and 0 for 8? In the world of statistics translates to one thing: very small samples! Not significant!
“Alvaro Fernandez
2 for 2 and 0 for 8? In the world of statistics translates to one thing: very small samples! Not significant!”
How about 2006 stats
Bruney’s BAA at Roger’s Centre .364
Proctor’s BAA at Roger’s Center .148
Proctors ERA vs Toronto 1.15 ERA |.132 BAA
Bruney’s ERA vs Toronto 2.25 | .353 BAA
* break the box
Did this work?
sj44-
thanks for the draft primer.i haven’t had much reason to pay attention to the draft as a yankee fan. the last drafted player i was excited about was brien taylor. i watched him in port charlotte strike out 14 in 7 innings. i thought i was seeing the next yankee great. you know how that ended up. drafting pitchers must be the hardest thing to do because of so may variables. i guess thats why teams go after quantity with pitchers.
i don’t understand how people can blame joe torre when players don’t perform effectively.
you can only motivate people so much and then they are on their own. he’s not the one swinging the bat, or throwing the meatball over the plate – why would it ever be his fault?