The people have spoken
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on May 31, 2007 
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Based on your unconditional love of Alex Rodriguez, perhaps he will stay in New York. It’s hard to get the kind of support our poll has for him. It’s a landslide.
Here’s my question, if a player from another team, say Jason Varitek, distracted Rodriguez and it cost the Yankees three runs, would you still think it was a clean play?
I’ll admit, at first I thought it was bush. But the more I think about it, it’s really not. If it’s OK to talk trash to the free throw shooter in basketball or wave your arms at the placekicker lining up for an extra point, when why can’t you yell at an infielder? Why is baseball any different?
You have to admit, however, it is amazing that it’s always Alex who finds himself in the middle of these things.
are you kidding Pete? If Varitek did that to AROD, NESN would run a three part series about how “heady” the play was…and the Post would run an article about how AROD choked…and Jeter woulkd never let a runner get in his head like that…jeter woulda had it…blah blah blah.
Forget AROD. He should just be called Lighting-ROD…anything he says, does, maybe does, almost did, thought about doing, etc…is blown up like a mushroom cloud.
Antoher reason why I think he is opting out.
If the BJ’s hit him with a pitch there better be action.
A-Rod
Here is my defense of Alex. He does seem to rub people the wrong way, but, he also has the ability to beat anyone of them in the game of baseball.
He came to the yankees to be apart of the tradition of domination. Since that signing we haven’t done that. Not A-Rods fault either.
To me it looks like a guy doing everything he can in every situation he can to get the most out of it. By hitting a ball from a pitchers hand, sliding in hard or even the backyard “Mine” attempt.
He’s giving everything he can and even stretching the boundries out of the frustration that hes the only one that really looks like he is.
If A-Rod leaves New York, its because he’s lost faith this organization will return to what it once was. Because, thats what he despartatly wants to be apart of.
Pete, I’m being perfectly honest here, regardless of the opposing player, I’d be annoyed with Jeter and Alex for lack of communication. If you think about it, Clark was camped under it, made the initial call well in advance, and was moved off of the ball because of a one word, “mine!” Generally to be called off something on a play like that, you’d need a series of emphatic “I got it!”, not just one.
If Varitek did it to ARod, nobody would care about anybody BUT ARod. The question wouldn’t be whether or not Varitek was bushleague, but rather whether or not ARod choked again. Like I said before, a big time ballplayer making that much money to play a game should be able to make a routine catch even if Jessica Alba were yelling at him in the buff.
If a Yankee player got deeked by that, I’d be embarrassed for him.
I’ve already said it: I didn’t fall for that in Little League, and I tried to get others to fall for it but it never worked.
The Blue Jays should be more embarrassed than PO’d. A pathetic display. This is why they teach communication at baseball camp.
“If Varitek did it to ARod, nobody would care about anybody BUT ARod. The question wouldn’t be whether or not Varitek was bushleague, but rather whether or not ARod choked again.”
What an objective, astute statement.
if arod opts out, i completely blame it on the media – they are all but running arod out of town with a pitchfork in hand screaming never come back. If varitek did it to arod, it wouldn’t even be in the papers. Its not always arod doing something – it is always the media hanging on arods every word, every play, etc. Get off his back already.
If A-rod had been duped by a play like that people would be saying he’s mentally weak, and the media outlets would have applauded the other player up and down. The fact of the matter is that it is a double standard when it comes to A-rod. If any other player on the Yankees (or any other team for that matter) it would be called a smart play. It’s as simple as that.
Is and was bush league. And I’d expect a Yankee to get in someone’s face if it happened to them.
If that happened to us, I’d chastize a-rod and jeter for dropping the ball.
Second basemen consistently fake a tag on a steal, and Torii Hunter likes to pretend that he can’t find the ball in the lights. These things are part of the game.
i wouldnt think twice if anyone yelled at anyone, i dont care if its varitek yelling at arod. whats bush league is letting it affect you.
this is another a-rod related non-happening that becomes a big deal. who cares that he yelled? people spike each other in games in order to get a SS to throw a ball wildly, people heckle from the dugout, and lets not forget the hidden ball trick. its part of the game. another non story. lets move on.
As some smart people at http://sonsofsamhorn.net pointed out, it is a questionable action by A-Rod because calling for the ball is mainly there to prevent injury due to a collision. Granted, this is much more of an issue in the outfield where any collision would happen at a much faster pace, but still… would you really want to see players collide left and right because you can’t trust calls for the ball anymore?
That said, when I read about the play I couldn’t help but laugh, and I agree with everyone who says that this gets blown way out of proportion because it concerns A-Rod.
I’d have to agree with … well… everyone here so far. It’s on Jeter and Arod to communicate who has the ball regardless of who is running the bases, Varitek, Manny, Papi, or Papa Smurf. Catch the ball, and *then* have words when the play is over if you have problems with the tactic.
Well, I’ll admit something too: I think, if Varitek had done something like that, I’d be furious. Then I started thinking, why do I feel this way now? And I think, for myself, the answer is in all the bad press Alex gets that Boston doesn’t get. Maybe if media coverage had been reasonable in the A-Rod/Pedroia slide and had been as fair in the Pedroia/Jeter slide… Maybe if the media had gotten on Varitek for picking a fight with his mask on… Maybe if the media would have gotten on Dice-K for his plunkings… But either way, they have gotten away with it, while even Alex playing hard (he DID break up the double play with his slide, didn’t he?) gets heaps of criticism. So, let it all out then. Do whatever you can to win. It’s the situation we’re in, and the press will make a big deal out of it anyway. I like the Alex I see this year. He’s been about winning, not about himself, or his stats. He wants to stop this slide, and does what he can.
Oh, and good point from Pete on other sports: There are more athletes in different sports who have to deal with distractions like this a whole lot more (Have you seen the box when there’s a corner kick in soccer? Try to get through THAT jungle of shirt-holding, small shoves, tripped people, etc.)
Anyone else getting sick of the played out “bush league” phrase?
The Jays are just pissed that Arod made Clark look like an idiot. When you’re a kid in little league and someone hits the ball in the air all you hear is people yelling “I got it” so you learn to deal with it. Clark and all the Jays are just mad cuz they fell for it.
I don’t know if Alex finds himself in these things but I’m quite sure we look for him there… and there are a lot more eyes watching him than anyone else in the game, except maybe for Barry.
“You have to admit, however, it is amazing that it’s always Alex who finds himself in the middle of these things.”
It’s only because it’s Alex. Any other player could have done the same thing, and nobody would care. There’d be no “thing” for anyone to find himself in the middle of.
If Jessica Alba was in the buff Idve never located the ball anyway let alone call for it.
That SonsofSamHorn crap is laughable…now they will blame AROD if players start crashing into each other all over the field? My God, Red Sox fans (assuming that is who they are) are dumber than even I imagined.
North Korea has nukes…AROD’s fault!
Remember last year he had a magic slide into second base to produce a double?
And also I read it in the ‘Money Ball” it mentions A-Rod used to cheat on the plate by peeping at opposing catcher ‘s glove ,so he can know what’s the pitch is.
He always finds a way to play a game, you can say he is sly, but only opposing teams or fans will hate his sly behavior.
Bottom line: when you’ve hit bottom, you fight back with everything you have. Alex did the Yankees proud, and the Toronto cry-babies can shut it.
Adding…OF COURSE I’d be ticked if a player from another team did it: I have a pulse. What’s that got to do with anything? I get ticked when the other team scores a run. I get ticked when the other team catches the ball. They’re THE OTHER TEAM. Screw ‘em.
Alex showed some fire. It’d be nice to see from more Yankees.
Drew said:
“Drew
Is and was bush league. And I’d expect a Yankee to get in someone’s face if it happened to them.”
But on your blog – when writing about Hilligoss’s hitting streak you wrote:
“Mitch Hilligoss opened himself up to criticism by bunting for a base hit in the 7th inning tonight. There’s an unwritten, albeit very silly, rule in baseball that you don’t bunt to break up a no-hitter.”
So which is it – are unwritten rules silly or not? You can’t have it both ways. Just curious.
Truth of the matter is it was Clark’s ball and even if he heard a “Mine”, he should have yelled back “Mine” even louder, he was camped under it.
“They’re THE OTHER TEAM. Screw ‘em.”
Good point.
I wouldn’t think Varitek as being bush league for doing that — I’d be mad at A-Rod/Jeter for not having a different call set up beforehand.
What would be bush league is if Varitek started a fight while still wearing his catcher’s mask. . .
Players try to fake each other out all the time. I’ve seen secondbasemen twice this season try to fake Yankees runners into thinking the ball went into centerfield after a stolen base. The Yanks just weren’t stupid enough to fall for the trick. The Blue Jays were.
If Varitek did it, A-Rod would be called a bafoon (sp?) for falling for it.
It happens all the time, in every sport. And if someone doesn’t think it does, I say wake up.
Nice work with the blog!
Re. A-Rod always being “in the middle of these things”–media hype don’t create itself, Pete (as you obviously know).
Things happen all the time, on the field and off, that nobody writes stories about, and those things never become debates. (It used to be that players could fool around without it getting in the papers….) However, the media’s focus on Alex since his arrival in NYC is not exactly a random event.
Pete, I don’t understand why you have no give on ARod and Torre. Fans who think ARod belongs on the Yankees love him unconditionally, and fans who think Torre is a poor in-game manager are haters. There’s a middle ground here.
I think ARod is a weird person but I believe we can’t replace his bat at third. Why should I want him to leave when he would likely be replaced by a nonentity?
I think Torre has left a terrific legacy with the Yankees but I believe he has made several questionable decisions that have contributed to our 22-29 record. Why should I be happy with Torre’s managing style when I think it’s a bad fit for the team this year?
Actually Designated Blogger, I think you’re thinking of Lugo. Who does it all the time and did it several times against the Yanks during the last series. I don’t recall any Yankee fans calling that type of “psyche out” bush league.
Sunny,
Some unwritten rules are silly, but not at all. Trying to break up a no-hitter by bunting is no biggie to me because you’re trying to win and its more of a stupid macho thing.
Yelling something as you pass a player is just plain crap.
“You have to admit, however, it is amazing that it’s always Alex who finds himself in the middle of these things.”
Sorry Peter, it’s not so much that Alex finds himself in the middle of these things, its the press who puts his actions under a microscope for the sake of something to talk about.
Whether it’s walking around with a blonde, sunning in Central Park, or yelling at a player while running, the press always tends to make more of it because it was A-Rod. So the shame is on the press.
If it was Melky Cabrera or Robinson Cano doing any of these things, nobody would say a word. The press is filthy.
“Second basemen consistently fake a tag on a steal, and Torii Hunter likes to pretend that he can’t find the ball in the lights. These things are part of the game.”
Axl, your talking apples and oranges. Its not the same thing.
wasn’t bush league. You should steal signs from the catcher about what pitch is coming, but you should practice every decorum about running past an infielder on a pop-up?
I chuckled at where they were talking about Clark not recognizing the shortstop’s voice, and him not being able to distinguish it from A-Rod’s. Really?
if Varitek did it to A-Rod… the story would be A-Rod’s choke, and then we’d see him slapping Arroyo and sliding into second hard, and the like. And we’d hear from the experts of how Varitek is crafty, and can manipulate an opponent with something other than his talent.
I wonder if people don’t pinpoint him because they know he’s susceptible to such scrutiny from all areas. Opponents know it’s effected him before, so it’s almost an unspoken, under-the-surface advantage they have. If something happens that’s mildly arguable, they run to the nearest media type and unload.
it’s in this context that Underdog gets a bad rap. Contract or not. The standard shouldn’t be set for all those without a $250 million dollar contract, and another for those that have one. It’s still a double standard, no matter how you look at it.
There are a lot of good points from all sides here, but rather than take a side I’m just shaking my head thinking, “How does A-Rod get himself into these messes, time and time again?” Say what you will about his talent or his attitude, the man draws unnecessary complication to himself and his team. It’s amazing.
That said, I’m surprised no one’s asking Johnny Damon his thoughts on the safety of a fielder going for a catch. He might have an opinion.
Nobody ever ended a career with a basketball to the head, by the way, so let’s keep things in perspective.
Pete – regarding the poll, you forgot about the “Yankees Blinders” factor.
You know, the device that fits on your head, only allowing you to see good things (albeit real or wishful thinking) about the Yankees – while “blinding” (blocking out) anything from the hard factual world?
They can’t be bought. But, you can make them yourself (with Mommy’s permission, of course) out of cardboard using safety scissors and pipe cleaners.
However, when wearing them, your IQ will be affected as well as your baseball perception.
I would disagree with that Jeremy, I think most of our problems came out of Spring Training with the slew of injuries that beset the team that A) Decimated the starting rotation, B) blew up the bullpen, and C) eventually wore out the offense for trying to keep up in high scoring games and felt they had to score 8 runs a game every night. That all falls (in my mind) on Marty Moron… er Miller.
Chi Sox have AJ Pierzynski, Yanks Have A-Rod. There’s a reason Bonds, AJ & A-Rod r the 3 most hated players in MLB.
It wasn’t a bush league play. Far from it.
You mean to tell me Arod saying “ha” or “mine” made Clark give up on a ball he was camped under and was an easy play?
Please. Clark blew the play and since it was Arod, he figured he could shift the blame and everybody would chime in.
Why should any team just concede outs? It makes no sense. Especially, a team in last place in the midst of a five game losing streak. I wouldn’t concede ANY out, let alone one in the 9th inning.
I know its time for our weekly installment of “Let’s get on Arod” but, if Clark screwed up, that’s on him.
If the Blue Jays want retribution in July, they do it at their own peril with Roger Clemens in the Yankee dugout.
I know if I was Vernon Wells, Lyle Overbay or Frank Thomas, I wouldn’t want to see a Clemens fastball near my head over some stupid retribution on Arod.
If the Jays are smart, they let it pass. If they are dumb and they do something, they may end up with another key player on the Disabled List.
This is all much ado about nothing.
Does this stuff always find Arod? Yes it does. It is tiring? Yes it is. But, what to do about that is an after the season question.
As to the issue of last night, it wasn’t even close to being a bush league play. Its like the hidden ball trick. When it works, the opposing team is embarrassed and they are just looking to shift blame away from themselves.
Pete,
great point about this stuff happening in every other sport… baseball is no different
was it a great play by arod.. no, if the yankees are in 1st place does he do it.. no, but it shows he is frustrated with the losing and just wants to win and i like that!
as far as playing the game right, im sure there are dozens of players that do alot more “bush league” plays all the time. for instance whey is manny dismissed as manny being manny when he does all his little things (i.e. staring at his hr for an hour at the plate). when was the last time gibbons complained about that. or spiking a guy when sliding into second, how often does that happen and nobody says a word.
the last point on this.. who is gibbons to complain about playing the game the right way and being classy.. isnt he the one who fought hillenbrand (his own player) last year.. real classy
oh well, nothing sells air time and newspapers like an arod story i guess
Joe Torre said after the game when asked about the play that he didnt know how he felt about it. Johnny Damon said he didnt even think what ARod did was legal. The 3B said he had been in professional baseball for 16 years, something like that, and had never seen that done, nor had it done to him on a field. Derek Jeter wouldnt even comment on the play.
These arent exactly ringing endorsements for those who argue that this is done all the time, or that its a respected or accepted play in baseball. To use the arguement that distractions are done in other sports doesnt apply, because other sports arent baseball. Maybe it’s me, but I hold baseball up to a higher level than basketball, football, etc…
was what Arod did illegal? maybe, maybe not according to the official rules of the game… but what Arod did to me certainly was below what the game of baseball should be.
in the end does it really matter? probably not, but you better believe the Jays are going to target him in between the numbers the next game he steps into the box… and if he gets hurt or misses time and hurts this ballclub because of it, then I dont want to hear anything from all the people trying to back what he did yesterday.
Drew
“Sunny,
Some unwritten rules are silly, but not at all. Trying to break up a no-hitter by bunting is no biggie to me because you’re trying to win and its more of a stupid macho thing.
Yelling something as you pass a player is just plain crap.”
Isn’t that what Arod was trying to do? Try to win? If a professional baseball player can’t catch a ball – infield popup no less – despite distractions, he needs to look in the mirror for excuses. This isn’t golf. It’s baseball. As a pro ball player, why this guy as affected by a “HA” at all.
Alex is some kind of smart. He only did what he did because Clark had just been called up. He would never have done that to a veteran player. Of course Clark is going to let the veteran who called for it take the ball. Clark should have called for it again and made the catch.
Unfortunately, Alex will always be remembered for plays like this one, along with the Arroyo, Varitek, and Pedroia incidents.
Drew face it, your logic is flawed. Others on this blog have pointed out several similar actions that are distractions. It is part of the game.
This idea of bush league is an excuse that people use when they just got played and are embarassed.
“TurnTwo
Joe Torre said after the game when asked about the play that he didnt know how he felt about it. Johnny Damon said he didnt even think what ARod did was legal. ”
No. He said he didn’t *know* if that play was legal, and if it was, they should do it more often.
I think A-rod hates to lose and he is so competitive that in the moment he can’t help himself. I.E. The Bronson Arroyo situation and the mine call last night. I’m not proud of it, but its something i could see myself doing in the moment as well.
I must’ve missed Damon’s comments. Regardless, given that the guy still has migraines from smacking heads with Damian Jackson (I still feel nauseous when I think about that play) I’ll bet he’s got an opinion on the matter.
we’re talking about semantics, here… whether he didnt think or didnt know the play was legal, again, it doesnt exactly give it a ringing endorsement to be a regular aspect of how the game is played.
“Sorry Peter, it’s not so much that Alex finds himself in the middle of these things, its the press who puts his actions under a microscope for the sake of something to talk about.
Whether it’s walking around with a blonde, sunning in Central Park, or yelling at a player while running, the press always tends to make more of it because it was A-Rod. So the shame is on the press.
If it was Melky Cabrera or Robinson Cano doing any of these things, nobody would say a word. The press is filthy.”
Here Here James Nordon. That’s spot on. And you know what? We may be the one’s to blame because we’re the ones buying crap like the Post and the Daily News when they put this kind of garbage out there.
On a completely unrelated note, I was at the Pinstripes in the Park thing last night and hearing Clemens talk about how great Continental Airlines is was just weird. I guess that was part of the $18 million contract. But it was awesome seeing Dave Winfield, my first favorite Yankee.
“If the Jays are smart, they let it pass. If they are dumb and they do something, they may end up with another key player on the Disabled List.”
just what i was thinking sj44.
arod is just pierzynski with talent. i wish the yankees could pick up that guy for back up catcher. he’d be a real pain in the #$#$%$, but he’d win the yankees some games.
It’s ridiculous to consider this a dirty or “bush-league” play. Pete Abe is right on, and this stuff happens all the time in basketball, by the way, with a player trying to dupe an opponent by calling his/her name or yelling to him/her. All the time. I’ve played plenty of basketball, and a summer-league teammate got suckered into throwing the ball away on such a play. Who got the dirty looks? Our teammate did. There were no sour grapes toward the opponent because no one with half a brain and a cursory attention span should ever let that happen to them. Call the ball, catch the ball. McDonald was nowhere near the ball, and why? because it was Clark’s to make. Everyone knew it. LeBron James told Gilbert Arenas that if he missed his free throws, the series was over, and Arenas missed them. Did any media figures make a big stink about this? Was the discourse what a “bush-league” play it was, or was it that LeBron was congratulated and excused? Pretty much the latter. But because it’s A-Rod, this is news, and “classless.” What a joke.
Baseball 101 is to call the ball loud and clear and make the play, period. If this happened to the Yankees, I’d be thoroughly annoyed at the Yankees’ player getting suckered, and say hats off to Varitek or whoever did it. Would I like it? No, but what’s unfair about it? What’s illegal? Would A-Rod have induced some dangerous collision? Nope. Let’s face it; if this is any other player, we’re not having this conversation.
Here, an anecdote from Halberstam’s “Summer of ’49″ sums it up well, page 122 (Harper Perennial Modern Classics, 2006): “Once in an early season game, [Jerry] Coleman took a pop fly. He had been quite pleased with himself, but later, when they were in the dugout between innings, [Tommy] Henrich came over to him. ‘Jerry,’ he said, ‘this is the Yankees. We’re a family. We don’t have any secrets among us. If you want the ball, YELL for it.’” Enough said.
Johnny Damon:
“I wasn’t sure that was allowed,” said Johnny Damon, who got the Yankees started with a leadoff home run. “Maybe we should keep doing it.”
courant.com
(http://www.courant.com/sports/.....s-baseball)
This wasn’t anything like an infielder/outfielder collision type of play. It was a short popup to the infield.
How in the world can Clark blame Arod for screwing it up?
All these off the wall analogies don’t hold a bit of water.
Like I said earlier, the Blue Jays are welcome to do something to him if they choose. But, remember, Roger Clemens is in the opposing dugout.
Something, I am sure the hitters in the Blue Jays lineup will remind their manager and pitching staff come July.
Its not an illegal play and why would you expect the Yankees to say anything about it?
You think they want to get involved in yet another Arod controversy?
Better to say nothing and let it pass.
As mel said, arod saw it was a rookie at third base and took a shot in the dark he could affect the play. it ended up working.
Its not like he did plowed into the guy like Albert Belle did to Ferando Vina years ago on a routine slow grounder to second to avoid a double play. THAT was a bush league play.
The guy made a sound, and Clark fell for it. Big deal.
Peter,
I’m glad you’ve changed your stance on this. Baseball players try to dupe their opponents or get the advantage in several ways, and this is no different. How is this different than middle infielders faking out runners, outfielders in domed stadiums pretending to lose the ball, players/coaches trying to steal signs, etc. Another poster said it best: these are things that happen but that rarely work, and the Jays were angry because it actually did. So…it is ok to try to knock the ball out of the catcher’s glove by barreling into him at full speed, but you cannot yell “mine” while running the bases??? He should have made that play. If you reverse things and Arod had fallen for that and missed the ball, he would be crucified as a choking dolt who should be run out of town.
Cheers…
Jer,
Were they televising the game at Pinstripes? What was the reaction of the crowd and the “dignitaries” to the distraction (at third base-lol)?
I’ve said this before, this is only a big story because it’s Arod, the Jays players are angry because they were embarrassed. You know when you do something embarrassing and everyone is staring at you so you start yelling to put the blame elsewhere. Would I be happy if this happened to the Yankees of course not, I would be upset cause we gave up runs but he didn’t do anything illegal. I can’t believe some seem to be more outraged at Arod for this than when Giambi admitted to taking sterioids, now that’s called cheating.
Sunny
“Isn’t that what Arod was trying to do? Try to win? If a professional baseball player can’t catch a ball – infield popup no less – despite distractions, he needs to look in the mirror for excuses. This isn’t golf. It’s baseball. As a pro ball player, why this guy as affected by a “HAâ€? at all.”
There’s a difference between a play that is competitive and one that is poor sportsmanship.
I definitely would have done it. These games are important. Especially with the hole they have dug for themselves. I think the team might not say it in public, but behind the scenes I bet they are congratulating Alex for doing it. It’s all good.
Clark still should have caught the ball, there’s no question about that. But that doesnt make what ARod did okay. It’s below the game, and should be below someone of his talent level.
Someone else said it earlier; scattered amongst the highlights of ARod career, whether it be the HR record, future WS Titles, whatever, his career will also be remembered by these lame, unnecessary, unprofessional plays, and that’s a shame.
What I really think happened is that ARod was thinking of his blonde girlfriend and accidentally yelled out “Mine!”
Sunny, yes I think you’re right-it was Lugo.
can we start the Boston series tonight please? this subject has grown tiresome…….
Yeah, they set up a big screen in Bryant Park like they do for the HBO movie series. It was pretty funny. Everyone was yelling “I got it, I got it!”
None of the “dignitaries” came up to the stage after the ninth so I don’t know what their reaction was. But it was interesting to hear the different crowd reactions the “dignitaries” got when they individually came up to talk to the crowd during commercial breaks (i.e. Dave Winfield had a louder reaction than Whitey Ford).
This may or may not have been mentioned, but is everyone overlooking the fact that Clark (the Toronto 3B?) is a very green rookie? The point is – if they do this sort of thing all the time, maybe it’s just something that happens that we don’t know about. ARod himself said that he gets it often when he’s catching pop ups by the visiting teams dugout – maybe it should be chalked up as a rookie mistake more than anything?
To answer Pete’s question: I personally think that if it had been Varitek doing that to A-Rod, I’d think Varitek was a major a**hole (which of course, I already do), but the blame for the ball falling in and the runs scoring would fall squarely on A-rod and/or Jeter. And that’s how I feel about the situation last night – I think it was a jerk move on A-rod’s part (though I also think it was just a silly gut reaction and not something he actually thought about – because really, who’d have thought that would actually cause a guy to miss the ball?). But a major leaguer HAS to catch that ball if he intends to help his team win.
So is yelling at a NBA player while trying to shoot a free throw poor sportsmanship? Other players and fans are doing their best to distract the free throw shooter? Tapping hockey sticks and yelling “pass it” to get a puck from an opponent fooling him into thinking your on his team.
In baseball:
What about running in front of a position player when he’s trying to field a ground ball? It could take a bad hop and hurt him pretty good. Is that bush league? Sliding cleats up into second? scuffing the ball? Pine Tar (see Rogers, Kenny and Donnelly, Brendan)? stealing signs? starting a fight with your catcher’s mask on? I don’t see how this is all competition.
Bottom line Drew, this guy is a 16 year vet (albeit minor leaguer), but he should know enough to tune out all distractions, make the play, and then have words with the opponent. If he’s afraid of a little contact from his shortstop, then he deserves to stay in AAA. And I’ve made this point before:
The 3rd baseman had no line of sight to the SS and the SS was positioned behind him. He knows that the SS can see him and the ball. So if someone else calls it and he can’t see him, he goes to make the play because he should know that the SS has him in his sights and should be able to get out of the way while he continues to track the ball and make the catch. If he’s dumb enough to move because he’s afraid of running into the SS, that’s on him and fear of getting run over, not Arod’s yell. As a pro ball player, you tune out everything and make the play or throw the pitch or hit the ball. What should have happened was howie catches the pop up, inning over and says something to arod on his way back to the dugout. Non-story.
Ditto Chris NY.
The night before, Jason Phillips runs into Josh Phelps on first base to bust up a double play, allowing a run to score.
In some circles, that’s considered a “bush league” play. Legal? Yes but, you don’t normally see runners take out first basemen on that play, even though its legal to do it.
The Yankees didn’t say a word about it.
If you are measuring each play on the “bush league” meter, a lot of people would say, trying to take out a first baseman on a double play attempt, is more bush league because it can lead to an injury.
The only “injury” suffered with Arod’s play were the hurt feelings of Clark and the Blue Jays.
Its much ado about nothing.
Jeff,
These games are important, but if Mo can’t hold a 7-5 lead in the 9th then they’ll never dig themselves out of that hole.
Giambi and some others might have liked it, but I don’t think that Posada and Jeter were congratulating Alex. I love that Giambi was jawing with the catcher, though.
But I’m not being all holier than thou, cuz if the score was tied or we were losing I’d have thought it was brilliant. It was unsportsmanlike because they had the lead in the 9th.
In the YES interview it was kind of funny because I think someone asked a question about the “distraction” and Alex didn’t know which one they were asking about.
But you’re right. It’s all good. Hope they can get it going from here.
drew, where’s your sense of creativity. it’s not like arod sat there for hours thinking it up. that was some some creative fast thinging there. what’s the down side? if there was some obscure rule the umps would have called arod out ,but there would have been an out if arod hadn’t acted. he had nothing to lose and everthing to gain.
mienkiewicz faked getting hit in the foot the other night on a pitch. he was awarded first base. was that bush league?
Sunny, baseball isnt basketball, or hockey. like comparing apples to oranges.
and other examples that you can use (jumping over a ground ball to shield vision, and OF pretending to catch a ball but then play it off the wall or on a hop) have worked their way into the fabric of the game, and most have become acceptable forms of deception and gamesmanship. What Arod did last night has not reached that level of acceptance.
Some of the examples you speak of also come at a price: slide cleats up, and you’re gonna get paid back in full. scuffing the ball? officially, i believe this is actually illegal, like using pine tar, but correct me if i’m wrong. stealing signs is absolutely not an accepted form of gamesmanship in baseball.
Is it just me… I would think I would know the sound of a teammate’s voice that plays next to me.
Bush league on Pedrioa
“Now comes the fall out. Word travels quick through the baseball fraternity and the Jays might not be the only team to let him know he was wrong. You see, professional sports all have unwritten codes. In hockey, the tough guys fight the tough guys. In football, you don’t run the score up when the outcome is decided. In basketball, the rules for the stars are different from the rest. And in baseball, they’ll allow cheating — spitballs and the stealing of signs — but they don’t allow deception. That’s why they have the balk rule which punishes a pitcher for “deceiving” the base runner as the rule book states.”
Baseball does not stand for deception.
Pedroia now gets to join A-Rod in the group of the few players in baseball history who have used to deception to try to win a game.
That’s why players throw at guys who deke runners with fake relays. And Pedroia is now an outcast in baseball for faking the tag last night at second to get an out call.
It’s one thing to tune out distractions, but its another to tune out what you think is your SS calling you off the baseball to find out it was the player from the other team.
A-Rod’s play is definetly bush-league. Did any of his own teammates say anything in support of A-Rod. Torre had no comment. Casman has no comment. Jeter(as always with ARod) has no comment. If ARod’s own teammates & Manager don’t come and any say anything supporting ARod why r we even arguing this. This is bush-league. Do the yanks have to win games this way. NO. Did yanks win playing bush-league baseball before ARod came to NY. NO.
Pete, do you have a side deal with A-Rod? All this publicity good and bad surrounding him is really running up your blog traffic.
nyy, glad to see someone else reading the situation for what it is.
I don’t think any Yankees would come to his defense even if he’s right.
“can we start the Boston series tonight please? this subject has grown tiresome…….”
the yankees have everything to gain and nothing to lose by going into fenway. the team still needs a fire lit under it and playing boston in fenway always provised sparks. i’m assuming clemens will be on the bench with the team so that should raise the intensity level. i would not pitch to youkillis right now. he’s hitting everything. i would drill him first time up just because he ‘s got the most obnoxious opposing batting stance ever. i know that’s not a nice thig to do, but the red sox hate bush league stuff so much i’d do it just to tick them off. did is say i like pierzynski? i think i did. did i say i hate the red sox. guess i don’t have to.
of grow up nyy.
suddenly you are the arbiter of all that is pure in baseball? And no one, not ever, not once, in the history of the New York Yankees pushed the envelope to help the team win?
Riiiiiiiight.
Is the weather nice on your planet?
“A-Rod’s play is definetly bush-league. Did any of his own teammates say anything in support of A-Rod. Torre had no comment. Casman has no comment.”
Watch the post-game, dum dum. Torre said that catchers get yelled at all the time.
BomberBill,
Now, now. Jeter has come to Alex’s defense before. In fact, just yesterday he was quoted as saying, “What’s wrong with getting caught with a beautiful blonde? Besides, it was a blonde GUY.”
Nice call Randy.
I hope we can keep up the momentum we had last time we faced Wake. I think we have his number until he adjusts his game for us.
If A-Rod got distracted by a play like that, I’d blame him. Just like Toronto should blame Clarke.
[nyy] “Chi Sox have AJ Pierzynski, Yanks Have A-Rod. There’s a reason Bonds, AJ & A-Rod r the 3 most hated players in MLB.”
AJ’s got himself a ring, and Bonds and Arod are destroying every offensive record created.
Who the heck is Dopey McGee, I mean Howie Clark.
The above three may be hated, but they show up to play. Howie dropped a ball a 12 year old should have caught. I think Howie should shut up and learn to catch.
it’s kind of ironic saying arod does things that should be in a lower class( bush league) league, when actually if there was a higher class league than mlb , arod would be in it and very few other mlb players would including the toronto players griping about being made to look silly.
True, Randy,
I just tire of people feeling like A-Rod is open game.
Not that el capton doesn’t let A-Rod hang in the breeze sometimes either.
Randy, Clemens can’t join the team until he is placed on teh active roster, which wont be until Chicago on Monday. So Clemens, by MLB rule, can’t be with the team.
SJ44: regarding the play where Phillips ran into Phelps, that actually is NOT legal. Phillips ran out of the baseline, especially the 45 foot lane that he must stay in as he approaches first base. The replay clearly shows him chugging to first on the INFIELD GRASS. If the umps had been paying attention he could have been called out for interference.
The hidden ball trick works a few times a year as well, and the team that falls for it gets razzed pretty good, as they should.
I am amazed at the bias and hysteria over this. All he did was say “Ha!” and suddenly it is like he committed a felony. One more time: if it was not A-Rod we would not be talking about this, and if the Jays had not screwed up and let the ball drop we would not hear people screaming “Bush League”. As for his legacy, I doubt anyone will really care about this if A-Rod eventually gets a ring, or hits 800 homers.
And nyy and TT, Torre DID comment on it and supported A-Rod. Damon was non-commital but basically supported him.
The reason A-Rod came hard into Pedroia was because earlier in that game Pedroia had done far worse to Jeter (maybe it is on youtube by now). Yet Jeter does not support A-Rod now. Some captain.
Oh please. Things like this are done all the time, in all sports. Hockey players yell PASS trying to trick the other team to passing the puck to them.
Reyes the other day, dancing at 1st, got Benitez to Balk. He was there trying to distract and confuse and he did. Reyes does it and it’s amazing baseball. A-Rod does it and he is a chump.
Sports is all about trickery. What ARod did was smart baserunning. He took advantage of a 33 year old career minor leaguer and made Howie look silly. This is why Howie is a 33 year old career minor leaguer.
The only think ARod did wrong was lie a bit about it after the game. He said he was past 3rd base, which he clearly wasn’t and he stated he yelled HAAA, when he clearly said MINE.
It becomes center of attention cause the Yankee haters jump all over it. Anyone else and it’s a brilliant move. A-Rod does it while on the Yankees and it’s bushleague.
A catcher keeping his mask on instigating a fight is bushleague. The Blue Jays drilling ARod next time around is bushleague.
This Blog is bushleague.
Sorry, got my names confused… meant to address Mel on A-Rod & Jeter.
thanks turn two-
but he can be in the locker room and on the field before the game. right.
even that’s got to help.
If any players did it to the Yankees I would be angry. Very angry.
I would be calling for the Yankee players to go back and learn how to play the game, because they blew it.
Besides, I don’t believe that ARod had distracted Howie the Duck. Look at the play, ARod made his “ha” right in back of Howie. Howie didn’t move or react. It wasn’t till ARod was near third that Howie turned, and he turned exactly toward McDonald. Why? Where is the close up of McDonald? It looked like he said something, but the video I saw wasn’t clear as it could have been, and we didn’t see his face in close up slow motion.
Howie didn’t move on ARod shouting, he did afterwards. Why wouldn’t he have looked toward ARod then if it was in reaction to ARod? Or are you saying that Howie fell for the tapping on the opposite shoulder gag as well?
The ball fell far enough away from him to say he wasn’t really picking it up. I think, given the actions that Howie the Duck made, that MickyDee caused him to drop the ball. This whole thing with ARod is a smoke screen to cover up a bad play from a bad player.
The whole thing with ARod, and the Yankees as well, is that people who are not up to that same level are looking to bring you down. That is human nature. The media, the other players in the game are never going to be able to match ARod’s level of play. What you do if you can’t reach them is to look to drag them down to your level.
When the play first happened and everyone thought A-Rod yelled “I got it!” I was a little embarrassed. It made the Yankees look desperate for a win. (Oh yeah, well, they were desperate for a win, so I guess they might as well be forthright about it.) I felt it was a mark on what was otherwise a nice win for the team, and was not looking forward to all of the “A-Rod’s a cheater!” and “Yankees cheat to win” storylines the media would dream up. (I imagine A-Rod doing something like that is sort of like getting a surprise extra credit question on a test that you KNOW the answer to and can write in five minutes for ten extra points “A-Rod…bush league…blah blah blah.”)
However, once I saw the replay, I had to laugh. While I don’t think i was necessary at all for A-Rod to do what he did, there’s something funny about a guy saying ‘HA’ being able to distract an infielder. That play should have been made, and I think I would be more embarrassed if I was on the opposing team’s side — in Pete’s scenario, with Varitek screaming at A-rod, for example. If A-Rod couldn’t catch a pop-up because someone distracted him, I’d look at it as proof he wasn’t focused and the team wasn’t playing hard, etc. So if I had to pick, I’d rather be on the side of the guy who was playing uh…really hard, trying to make thing happen, than the guy who couldn’t execute a routine play. I feel like I’ve been on THAT guy’s side all season watching these Yankees.
Was it bush of Blue Jays catcher Jason Phillips to run out of the baseline and give Josh Phelps a forearm shiver???
Was it bush of Dustin Pedroia to slide 6 feet out of the baseline to break up a double play last series?
The sniveling whiner Sox & Jays ought to shut up and quit calling the kettle black.
I am incredibly amused by the fact that there seem to be an equal number of people convinced that they were able to lip-read Alex saying “Mine” as there are those who swear they saw him say “Ha!”
Is it a surprise that Jeter said nothing? Even when Abreu was struck out on the pitch that we all saw was in the opposite batter’s box, Jeter’s response was that he didn’t see it. Jeter avoids controversy. Even if he agrees with what Alex did, he is NOT going to say so in print. He may have privately applauded Alex — or not — but for Jeter none of his opinions are for public consumption unless they are generic and vanilla in nature. I don’t necessarily think this makes him a bad captain or a bad person or a bad teammate. It’s just part of who he is. Have you seen Jeter “argue” with an umpire about a bad call? Unless the camera is on him, you wouldn’t even know that’s what he was doing. He’s subtle, but mostly he simply avoids controversy.
Alex, however, seems to be a controversy magnet. Again, not a judgment, just an observation.
Randy, I agree. Thats most of the reason why I felt it was necessary to pitch him this series.
Alex is the male Anna Nicole Smith.
I don’t think it’s any worse than the 2nd baseman getting ready to catch a throw from the catcher that’s not coming in an attempt to get the basestealer to slide (when the ball was actually hit for a single).
Bunting to break up a no-hitter is much worse if the score is not close.
Leave us out of this. It was a fair play.
COl,
I total agree, I just didn’t want it taken the wrong way, since her life was tragic.
Boston Globe Eric “Boar” Wilbur take on Arod Bush League Play. Eric Wilbur
http://www.boston.com/sports/n.....index.html
Col —
I disagree because Alex has talent.
“SJ44: regarding the play where Phillips ran into Phelps, that actually is NOT legal. Phillips ran out of the baseline, especially the 45 foot lane that he must stay in as he approaches first base.”
not to mention, i think our very own Robinson Cano was called out on this in a playoff game, no?
The whole episode is being blown out of proportion merely because it involved A-Rod. If Alex had gone to third wearing a clown suit it still wouldn’t be a legitimate excuse for Clark blowing the play.
It’s just “A-Rod being A-Rod”…
[img]http://www.nomaas.org/images/drop138.gif[/img]
http://www.nomaas.org/images/drop138.gif
that pic may be one of their best…
“What would be bush league is if Varitek started a fight while still wearing his catcher’s mask. . .”
Ditto
Don’t worry sports fans, this will die down as soon as they can manufacture another thing against the Yankees to whine about.
dg,
Thanks for the laugh. I don’t know if that one, the Varitek with the *Captain’s* uniform, or the Schilling shark is my favorite.
Legal…or not…bush-leauge…or not. Doesn’t matter. It was just totally unncessary. It didn’t affect the “W”. What if we were up by 10 runs and he did it? Then he’d just look like a punk trying to embarrass a minor leaguer.
I dont understand how its bush. It makes no sense. It was a pop up next to third base. It was the 3rd basemans ball to catch. Its so funny that this is made out to be such a big deal. If that was Jeter, it would be a great play. As Steve Sommers calls him, the “Lightning-Rod”
As in any professional sport there is heckling, trash talking, distracting, etc. Simply put, A-rod did a little hazing of this poor guy who has just come up from the minor leagues. He probably is embarrassed and ashamed. If you notice he never even looks at a-rod because he damn well should’ve had that ball and he knows it. McDonald and Gibbons were making a stink about it all, but to me they’re just upset that a-rod was picking on their little guy up from AAA who doesn’t have the experience to deal with the intangibles. If anything, it was the best lesson a guy up from the AAA could have gotten. Kudos to a-rod for mixin it up.
ok, i know this is completely unrelated pete, but do you happen to know if Scranton infielder Alberto Gonzalez speaks english?
I swear i’m not being racist or anything, and my intentions are good, I was just wondering if you knew.
If Varitek did that to ARod, I would be pissed at ARod for being stupid enough to fall for it. Why is it a bush play and not a smart play? BJs fans should be pissed at their team for being that stupid to fall for that.
_“You have to admit, however, it is amazing that it’s always Alex who finds himself in the middle of these things.�
Yeah, I wonder why that is… Hey, Kettle, reread your last dozen headlines and then take a look in the mirror, you buffoon.
Stop blaming the media for reporting what happens on the field.
Stop blaming the media for publishing reports of extracurricular activity in this day and age. This is not Camelot, and A-rod is not John F. Kennedy living in an age when you could get away with being with women to whom you are not married. Alex is always preaching family values and talking about his little Natasha. Way to set an example for your daughter, Daddy.
This is not a witch hunt. Keep your nose clean and you stay out of the tabloids (er..papers).
If a player from an opposing team yelled, “HA” as he was rounding the bases, and A-Rod (or any infielder on the Yankees) didn’t catch the ball because of it, I’d be pissed at the Yankee for being distracted by it.
When was Alex preaching about family values? Link please
Totally agree Mel,
These players are celebrities and should expect the same attention as Lohan smashing a car with coke in her car or Brittney driving with her baby on her lap. Though those cases were more extreme (and the media has treated them accordingly as well).
bpib,
No link, just through his charitable foundations.
“mienkiewicz faked getting hit in the foot the other night on a pitch. he was awarded first base. was that bush league?”
of all the stuff i’ve read on this topic today, this is the best example i’ve read.
the mientkiewicz thing was quickly forgotten, but there is no doubt he faked getting hit by that pitch. in other words, he clearly “cheated”.
but no one cares b/c he only makes $1.5M.
If Bush League= winning,
then maybe the whole team should switch leagues!
“This is bush-league. Do the yanks have to win games this way. NO. Did yanks win playing bush-league baseball before ARod came to NY. NO.”
let’s not pretend the yankees were complete bastions of sportsmanship before A-Rod got here. that’s completely delusional.
let’s remember Reggie sticking out his hip.
how about Knoblaugh making a phantom tag in the 1999 ALCS in Boston? how was that different?
and please, the yankees have had their fair share of “cheaters” play for them before A-Rod….Jose Conseco, Jason Giambi, Jason Grimsley, Felix Heredia, and Gary Sheffield. all of those guys are confirmed steroid users.
now, i’m not a huge steroids puritan, but it’s funny to read the same people who want Sheffield back get all up in arms about A-Rod yelling “Ha” or whatever on a pop up.
Please leave me alone.
Look. I’m not if favor of everyone screaming around the basepaths everytime someone hits a popup. But let’s face facts here… Howie should’ve caught that ball, Ha or no Ha. The fact that this guy is a career (16 *years*) minor leaguer alone should speak volumes. I’m sure Howie felt like real crap for botching the play, but let’s call if for what it is – a botched play. Arod could have cut a slice and Howie would still have misplayed it. If you’re going to call out Arod for yelling, don’t forget to self-incriminate for being 4 feet away from where the ball landed.
I don’t think this team should/will resort to these kind of tactics to win. It was a freak play and 29 of the other third baseman in the league make that catch. Don’t go blaming the skillet because it burned your eggs.
Funny people jump on A-Rod for bad sportsmanship.
How about Manny & Big Papi admiring their homeruns in the batter’s box for 5 minutes? How is that not considered bad sportsmanship? I’ve been waiting for those guys to get plunked for ages.
Also funny that A-Rod gets crap for this while Michael Vick allegedly is a big-time dog fighter. That should be getting a million times the attention than this.
I disagree that the yankees were up by “enough” runs in the 9th that they shouldn’t have been trying whatever they could do in the 9th to get as big a cushioning lead as they could.
Mo, while much better this year, has blown leads. The bigger the lead you can give your closer, the better – no matter what the situation and who the closer is.
You can never predict when a well hit ball, that looks like its going foul, stays fair for a game winning HR that bites you, can you?
Dead Horse…
To Quote A-Rod: “HA!” I got a good laugh out of your post.
If/when ARod does any wrist-slapping/elbow-throwing/shouting for the Angels (or Boston or whoever he plays the next 5-8 years for), those who supported him now will undoubtedly call it bush then.
The simple fact is you support (or in the case of alot of these current Yankees) you TOLERATE their actions, then trash them when they’re gone (paging Mr. Sheffield).
btw, for all those who were so worried about the marriage. This pic was taken today.
http://www1.whdh.com/images/ne.....friend.jpg
IF VARITEK DOES IT TO A-ROD OR ANOTHER YANKEE IS DIRTY PLAY BECAUSE HE IS FORM BOSTON AND WHATEVER COMES FROM THAT TEAM IS DIRTY.
The analogy to basketball is specious. Different sports have different codes of conduct e.g. boxing and tennis. There is behavior by fans and players that is culturally accepted in some sports and not in others. Any intersport comparison in this regard is meaningless.
As for A-Rod, whether his actions were legal or illegal is beside the point. This issue is at what level does one aspire to play the sport. This issue of aspiration does–and should–apply even more intensely the more brilliant and talented the athelete is. The greatest atheletes have the potential to embody some of the greatest aspects of human accomplishment. When they reject that potential by opting to descend to lower levels they insult their gifts for superlative attainment that only the smallest fraction of the population can ever hope to touch.
Legal, not legal, who cares? It’s just a waste of excellence.