Good luck, good-bye Matt DeSalvo
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jun 04, 2007 
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So much for Matt DeSalvo. He was sent back to Scranton after the game. Joe Torre had no patience with him, pulling the rookie in the second inning down 3-1.
“We’re trying to win a game at that point in time,” Torre said. “I didn’t like what I was seeing; he was trying to feel his way through.”
The bullpen was OK but the offense didn’t appear until the ninth inning. By then it was too late. Where was Roger Clemens when they needed him?
Derek Jeter said Joe Crede stepped on his foot in the second inning thanks to that wayward throw by Josh Phelps. The Captain, of course, said he was fine.
There is some chatter in Chicago about a Bobby Abreu/Jermaine Dye deal. Be careful, Abreu has been on base 12 times in the last four games.
That’s it for me. Much sleep awaits.
I was starting to get my hopes up in the 9th, it was good to see a little bit of fight but to little to late. DeSalvo is absolutely terrible, hopefully we never see him again.
good luck you career minor leaguer desalvo. you belong in double a
yeah desalvo has a lot to do with this putrid defense
DeSalvo never should have been pulled, regardless if he was “feeling” his way or not. You want a prime example of why this bullpen is overworked? Torre doesn’t have enough guys in his fictional “circle of trust” and doesn’t give anybody else a chance.
Im not too worried about this loss. After a long game last night where they absolutely showed some heart, they tried to pull it out again in the ninth. After some much needed rest, they will come back tomorrow and win and then take the rest of the series. I am not impressed by this white sox team at all this year, their bullpen is worse than ours. we’ll take 3 of 4 from Chicago and then sweep Pittsburgh. Mark my words, you heard it here first.
ok there is nobody in his circle of trust this season, and he would not put Mo in so early if you even count him right now, so that logic is out of the window.
The bullpen is overworked because Torre is using all the guys in there. If he wasn’t, there would be many fresh arms since the ‘circle of trust’ guys go in all the time.
IS Britton staying up Peter? Or are they keeping the V boys. The 2 studs…
1 reason Torre over uses pitchers in the pen is because they have about 3 guys that are terrible..
they are vizc., villone, krazy Kyle cannot be trusted, etc..
the only guy that can be trusted is mo and bruney has pitched well so far this yr. that is it…
Matt DeSalvo isn’t really a good pitcher, but one of those runs was unearned. How many times do you see a starter get pulled for giving up two earned runs by the second inning?
Regardless of whether he may or may not have gotten out of the jam he was in, it was too early to pull him, especially in the first game of a four-game set when you’re going to need those relievers later on. Chicago’s a very poorly-hitting ballclub at this point in time, and DeSalvo could well have worked through things on his own.
Instead, now we’re going to have a burned bullpen in Game 2, and I’m sure it won’t be in great shape in Game 3 either.
As for Abreu/Dye, it just seems pointless, and Abreu out of a slump will be more valuable than Dye out of a slump.
reflaxion, burnt out bullpen they used; Villone(bum), Myers for 1.1/3 innings, and britton who they never use…
They could not leave him in, he looked bad.. torre makes many mistakes this is not 1 of them………….
proctor has not pitched in 2 days, miracle……..
Britton better start being used regularly.
Now it’s time to give Edwar Ramirez a shot too.
Gotta love Pete. He goes with the “Bobby Jean” reference.
This may be a little off topic, but, is it me, or was than inordinate amount of attention focused on ARod during the ESPN broadcast.
Now, I pointed out yesterday that I think he’s a bit of a mush…but man, it sure felt like Rick Sutcliffe had an axe to grind with the guy. It’s one thing to talk about him when he’s batting or makes a play, but to continually focus on him almost the whole game is just absurd. I’m also not one of these people who likes to bash ESPN, I enjoy ESPN, don’t mind Morgan and Miller and find the networks coverage, overall, fairly palatable. But to bring up a graphic on the “unwritten rules” of the game, and then proceed to point out the ones ARod has supposedly broken, well, that’s just poor coverage. I’m pretty sure I can recall Sutcliffe chuckling about some old time pitchers who may have doctored the ball, and chalking that up as part of the game. I just found it to be immensely irresponsible on ESPN’s part to cover the game this way. I’m beginning to lose some respect for the network. Where as I used to look forward to tuning in for some insightful coverage and a general respect for the game, now we’re faced with the likes of Eric Young and Fernando Vina. Their panel of analysts has really gone downhill since Harold Reynolds was fired.
Sorry for the rant, I’m just curious if I’m alone in this perception…and don’t get me wrong I’m not pining for homers like Sterling and Waldman either. I just want to hear some good game analysis. Give me Jim Kaat, Jim Palmer, Steve Stone, just someone who can look inside the game and get beyond all the garbage.
ESPN is starting to become just a little too tabloid like for my tastes.
CG.. the ESPN coverage of the yanks is horrible. not only are they biased, the simple color commentary and analysis is just ridiculous. so incompetent and idiotic sometimes.
i really have no respect for espn anymore ..its sad, cause it use to be the so good.. its a shame.
torre was right to take desalvo out. .he was struggling and thome was coming up to bat.. villone got us out of a huge jam that inning.. to bad villone himself stayed a bit to long.
i really liked what britton did… hopefully torre saw it too.
any word on who they are bring up to replace desalvo.
DeSalvo shouldn’t have been called up. Not that the Yankees have any more starters down in the minors or on the 40roster.
If Clemens doesn’t get better, then expect Kei to make the start. He pitched better in his last outing, but it could have been a fluke. Luckily it’s against the Pirates, so Igawa may not be all that bad.
DeSalvo is a couple years away from being major league ready.
He isn’t a bad pitcher, just not a major league pitcher at this point in time.
Hopefully Cashman realizes this and it’ll be the last time we see him this year.
I have a good feeling about tomorrow. The Red Sox hangover is gone and the fire is back in the bellies of the beast.
A trade for Dye is dumb. If they want him, go after him in the offseason.
CG, VIP … ESPN is located in New England … ’nuff said.
AND if Clemens isn’t ready this weekend, go with a 4 man roster. With the off days, it can be done and Pussina can get his 5 days rest. The poor baby!
With what is available as the 5th, it’s a guatanteed loss and not something the Yankees can afford right now.
Tom, so are the studios for the YES network. Located smack dab in Connecticut.
YOu know, its not really insightful analysis to simply call someone a career minor leaguer and say he belongs in AA. Perhpas if you did some research, just a minute’s worth of time really, you’ll notice that DeSalvo has great minor league #s save for a terrible year in AAA last year which he is still working off the rest from. Which is why he should have remained in AAA for awhile longer, to continue regaining his control and confidence. But to say he belongs in AA and is a career minor leaguer? Dude, come on.
Also, DeSalvo doesn’t need a few more years to be ready, he should have been by the end of this year. he’s getting up there (26), so next year is really the make or break season for him. He will, most likely, make a decent BP arm or 5th starter and be, well, league average, which is darn good for a #4 or #5 or BP arm…
That should say the RUST from, not rest…pardon the bad bad bad spelling
I’m a big Bobby Abreu fan. I own his jersey and wear it to all the games. I loved him throughout his years in Philly. However the arguement that he’s going to have a better second half than first is an insult to my and the rest of the Yankee’s fans intelligence. He’d better! He cant do worse! Can he? Anyway, I’m majorly in favor of an Abreu/Dye trade. First of all Dye is a MVP type player. Abreu’s not. Dye’s a better fielder. They both have good arms so we’re not losing anything there. They are the same age. Dye puts up much better power numbers all around though. Most importantly to our lineup Dye bats righty. I doubt it will happen but I hope it does because I think Dye is one hell of a player.
DeSalvo should go in a package. He’s way to old to be clogging up the minor league rotations for us. We have a lot of young arms now that need the time he’s taking up. Now teams have seen he has some ability at the show level. We need a long reliever who can go more than 2 max innings if a starter poops out. Meyers, Farnsworth and Villone are all guys I’d think about moving. Package DeSalvo with one of them and get an arm.
Dye is an MVP type player ? Teams have seen that DeSalvo has talent ? Are you high ?
He had less walks than usual. There’s something he can take out of this.
desalvo didn’t do anything but hurt himself with this call up, the yanks probably wont call him up again and no one is going to want him in a trade, unless its a throw in. its a shame really … with the draft coming up the yankees need to give some much needed promotions to alot of players, but there really isn’t much room for alot of people, the yankees actually have alot of talent, they haven’t been able to say that in years, but maybe they can throw some of these guys in a trade or some, teixeira is a dream, but its possible, unless texas is asking for the whole kit and kaboodle. i think cash needs to make something happen
Dye had an MVP year last year, in a career year. Is he going to do that forever or is it more likely he’ll go back to his solid but unspectacular numbers? Abreu has had an awful start, but in the past has been one of the more consistent players around. You can expect around a .300 average, .400 OBP, 20 homers, 20 steals, and 90-110 RBIs a year. Now, he may not reach those this year because of his horrific start, but there’s a lot more reason to think Abreu will turn it around and have a solid second half more in line with his career numbers than there is to think Dye will repeat 2006 the rest of the way. Unlike Abreu, Dye was never quite as good before in 2006, which leaves the real possibility that it was a fluke. Abreu’s average numbers are .300/.409/.499. Dye’s are significantly lower in every way (including slugging percentage). Sure, I’d trade Abreu for Dye of 2006, but it’s highly unlikely that’s the player the Yankees would get.
To people who are to into DeSalvo please man the kid is a career minor leaguer lets not get to carried away w/ him Goose Gossage saids a couple of nice things about him and Giambi starts praising him in spring training and all the sudden people think he’s David Cone. Matt DeSalvo is a career AAA player nothing more.
Chris Britton is a breath of fresh air to this bullpen btw that guy was acquired by Cashman and is definitely an upgrade to the bullpen. Now can they stop waisting time and get Edwar Ramirez up here is that so hard to ask for
Desalvo needs a couple of yrs to get ready? So what u expect him to be a major leaguer when he is thirty? Pleeaase. If he isnt ready now, he prolly never will be, The guy is turning 27 this yr – he is getting to the age where u either make the majors or find a new profession.
Who said dye is an mvp type player and abreu isnt? Dye was in the mvp voting ONE TIME at fifth in his 11 yr career. Dye is also a career 275 hitter with a crappy 338 career obp. Dye has very little speed – 43 stolen bases in 11 yrs and 246 career homers. Abreu has a career 300 batting average with a career 409 obp (ninth out of all active players and ranked 39th all time.) Bobby also has speed with 279 career stolen bases and 30 just last yr. Abreu has 207 homers in his 11 seasons only 40 less than dye. But bobby has 384 doubles compared to dyes 278. Dye had 27 doubles last yr and bobby had 41. Granted, Dye hit 44 homers last yr but that was far and away an all time best for him as his next highest was 31. So Dye has the edge in the power department and is a better defensive player. But bobby has the speed, the average, and the eye. Abreu also has the better arm. Not to mention, Dyes power is a bit dubious as he only really became a power slugger 2 years ago. I say keep abreu – usually guys at his age play to the back of their baseball card and if that is true bobby is going to have one hell of a second half. And dye is also not playing very good so far batting a mere 228.
The ESPN broadcasts are vehicles to put forth their agendas. Who’s stopping them? If you imagine you’re thinking about Red Sox issues instead of ESPN, you’ll end up with the same issues as ESPN. Case in point, Clemens. The Red Sox and their ancillary press army have been obsessed by Clemens, therefore you’ve seen enormous coverage about him on ESPN. In general Yankee fans,like myself, don’t care that much about Clemens and don’t need to see him on ESPN. Example of how much more a Red Sox fan cares: he still won’t root for the Blue Jays because Clemens worked there once. Beyond that ESPN’s demo is males age 18-34.
Dye has a horrible OBP. I don’t want him for Abreu.
Gentlemen, If there is any possiblity of obtaining one Jermaine Dye straight up for Bobby ABREU I would imagine that Cashman is working out the langauge of the contract,,,,It would be a no-brainer…..So as both teams are watching closely at these four days….And if there is any merit to a deal it will go down before both teams move to their next city….Jermaine Dye is a horse, only needing a change of address and he’ll be a reborn ballplayer…Philly needs arms for their pen,wellhow about Kyle Farnsworh, and to a lesser extent, Viczano,,,,The one area that will kill this club come late summer ( August /September will be the bench…The Yanks always had the big bench it was a force to be dealt with . a luxury the club aused to knock out their opposion….Lately it’s based on the bargin basket menality….I do see major moves concerning that and restructure the bullpenPhilly heeds short relief, shit they heed arms peroid….IB will be viewed differently, however Cashman alresdy has the perimeters that will make Texas will be a player….These next week leading up to the all-star break is do or die in NYC….I see 3-4 Yankee players changing address in the next few weeks,,,,,I’t will be arms on the move,,,,Dye would excell immediately…..Proctor , Bruney, and Britton forms a very strong trinity ,,,,,Nasty boys Bronx style…then there;s Mo…….As we all know, we get a break in schedule for modt of June AND MOST of August,,,September also proves to be good, as there weeks of pluck teams to pick……..The Hughes when it’s all said and done, willprove to be the most costly injury of all…..Lets hope he comes back in late July,,,,Down the stretch, he will be the difference maker,,,,,wAIT AND SEE,,,,,5 games out by the all-star break,,,,I’ve been seeling this for over a week,,,,,,
I still don’t understand why Chicago would make this trade.
Everyone is right on the mark with the ESPN coverage. It is a good 4 days when I can see the Yankees on TV, but having to watch the broadcasts on NESN, FOX and ESPN is brutal! I would get the MLB package but I would also have to get a lawyer for a divorce also.
I like Melky playing centerfield and getting at bats everyday. I think he is going to have a great June. It looks like Cano is about to break out too.
That is all from me, smack dab in Red Sawx Nation.
Sleep tight Peter.
If Giambi was healthy I might trade Abreu for pitching but Jermaine Dye? He had a fluke year last year. Dye had a .328 EQA last year. His career EQA is .280. Last year Abreu had a .309 EQA is Philadelphia and a .329 EQA in NY. He has a .312 career EQA. Both of them are off to a bad start this year. They are the same age. Dye is owed 10.5 million less than Abreu (assuming the Yankees exercise his buyout).
Abreu straight-up for Dye is a stupid panicking move. If the White Sox throw in a reliever in addition to Dye than I`d do it but I doubt they’d throw in that reliever.
DeSalvo’s line from last night in a whopping 1.1 innings was: 4 H, 3 R, 2 ER, 1BB on 44 pitches – 23 strikes. That’s 44 pitches in 1.1 innings with about 50% strikes. Granted, the second inning was extended by a fielding error, but he was over 20 pitches in the first inning alone. There were too many drawn out counts.
And this was against a 26 – 27 team that is batting (after last night’s game) a whopping .232 with a .368 SLG. At the rate he was going, was he really going to make it past the 3d or 4th inning? And what would the score have been by then?
We need to maintain perspective. We shouldn’t even be discussing DeSalvo and Clippard or Wright, et. al., this year. They should all have been happily toiling away in the minors until that “ah ha!” moment when it all came together (or didn’t). Then we might be looking at one of them as a 5th starter or long reliever next year. Maybe, just maybe, Rasner or Karstens would have been with us this year as a 5th or long man after Igawa flamed out.
This, whoever you want to blame, is the season from hell.
murphydog –
You are 100% correct. This is, indeed, the season from hell. Has anything gone according to plan? Not a single thing. From the bid for Matsuzaka (if you want to take it back into the off-season), to not one but two pitchers getting taken out by balls back to the mound, and everything in between. I seriously sometimes feel like I’m watching a train wreck.
After the game last night, Paul O’Neill commented that they’ve never had to call a season like this before. I think even the announcers are dumbstruck by all this, at a loss to explain anything. It’s the opposite of those years when all the stars seem aligned in a team’s favor.
It’s true that the Yankees have problems, and they’ve all be discussed here, so I won’t repeat, but they’ve also had incredibly bad luck, karma, whatever. We should have known when Carl Pavano pitched opening day that it was not a good sign…
Matt DeSalvo was the 7th option last night. Pavano, Karstans, Rasner and Hughes are on the DL. Clemens (who was supposed to be last night’s starter) is hurt. Igawa is in the minors trying to find it again.
No organization is 8-10 deep with effective major league starting pitchers. If they were, there wouldn’t be such a premium ($$$-wise) for starting pitching.
The team is fighting….I laugh reading in game comments that they are “quitting”. Do people even watch the games? The effort is there. They just aren’t a good team. They are depending on guys like Matt DeSalvo, Tyler Clippard and Josh Phelps to not just play but, WIN games.
Ain’t happenin’.
My hope last night was that DeSalvo could have gotten through five and kept the team in the game. But, the kid just can’t/won’t throw the ball over the plate.
No matter how bad a hitting team the White Sox are, if they are always hitting in 2-0, 3-1 counts, they are going to do some damage.
There is a reason why this team looks so ragged. Starting pitching. On days Pettitte and Wang pitch, they look like a team with some jump. On the other three days, when lesser guys (including Mussina, who is a shell of his former self) pitch, they look like a last place team.
Folks ripping Torre last night for taking out DeSalvo really need to get a clue. The kid isn’t any good. They DFA’ed him last year because he couldn’t throw the ball over the plate. He isn’t a prospect and he isn’t going to be a major league pitcher. It is what it is.
What we are seeing now stems from completely ignoring the draft from 2001-2005. That gap in the organization (talent-wise) is why they are short prospects at the AAA level and (position player-wise) at the AA level.
So, when you have this type of year……injuries throughout the parent team, you are limited in who you can count on in the system.
What this team needs is for Clemens and Moose to pitch the way they are capable of pitching. If they can, you can fudge through the fifth starter to grind out wins.
However, if 3 of your 5 starters can’t pitch effectively, you aren’t winning games. Regardless of who manages the team.
Here is the bottom line, we need to win the next three games of this seris. We almost won with a minor league pitcher, and if another minor league pitcher (Clippard) can win today we will not skip a beat. The Red Sox are about to hit their first slump of the season.
Go Yanks
Doreen:
It’s really so bad that it is the season of the “worst case scenario.” It’s been Murphy’s Law on stilts. Then again, you make your own luck. There is always some bad luck in a given game and some blown umpire’s calls, but by and large, at this point in the season, you are your record. This team has played the first half very poorly – it’s the same level of play that got them a first round exit the last two years and was foreseen in the 2004 collapse.
But to “chicken and egg” this thing, you have to go back to 2001, and Buster Olney’s End of the Dynasty. There was no “Patient Zero” of this demise. (“Patient Zero” was the urban legend, male flight attendant to whom 75% of all US AIDS case were thought to be traced to). Giambi, Brown, Sheffield, Vazquez, etc., and then throw in Johnson and Pavano and you’ve got some good suspects. Some people like to throw in Mussina and A-Rod, but I don’t think they were bad acquisitions even though they did not turn out to be the impact Supermen they were thought to be.
Neglect of the farm, and offering too much money (and too many years) to aging players will get you here soon enough. Cash has diagnosed the problem, has designed a plan to fix it, obtained management’s approval for his plan, and is in the first year and a half of executing that plan. Fire Cash? That’s “kill the messenger.”
The failure to get Dice-K is partly the result of having to respond to the earlier sins and having to avoid another huge, luxury tax contract with too much risk. The risk issue with Dice-K is not age, of course, but rather it is the “pig in a poke” aspect of lusting after Japanese players. Until we can get better “comparables” with which to evaluate Japanese talent, it’s hard to know when to empty the bank for a player. Frankly, Dice-K as a third starter is not worth this money. In the present Boston rotation, any number of other pitchers could have plugged the middle of the rotation this well. Does Dice-K get that much better next year? Who knows. Will Boston choke on Dice-K’s contract about the same time it realizes its mistake with JD Drew? Good chance.
What the heck is the point of trading Abreu for Dye? Why trade a RF for a RF? That makes absolutely no sense at all.
The trade I would really like to see is Farnsworth for Rowand. Then you put Rowand in CF, Damon at 1B, make Matsui the DH, and play Melky in LF. Melky is not the best hitter on the planet but imagine that outfield defense….
dye for abreu is just a way to even out the amount of lefties on this team.
EV,
The Phillies gave up one of their best pitching prospects to get Rowand. I don’t think they are going to give him up for a guy like Farns, straight up. Farns is garbage, he doesn’t even see mop up time in a lot of games.
murphydog -
Oh, I can certainly see how a season like this was somewhat foreseeable. The total shut-down of the offense in the final 4 games of the 2004 playoffs and the first round exits left people scratching their heads, but it really was simple: good pitching stops good hitting. Always has and always will. The blow-out games in the playoffs are few are far between. And, I guess you could say George got greedy by going after Giambi when he had a perfectly fine fit as a first baseman in Tino, and frankly, since Giambi got here it’s been a lot of different people at first base to cover him due to his litany of injuries. Sheffield wasn’t a disaster, I don’t think; he produced and came close to winning an MVP while here. I agree with you that Mussina was a good acquisition — not exactly as good as was hoped, but certainly steady. I maintain that last year with some run support he would have won his 20 games. People question why Cashman gave him 2 more years; I think it’s also simple to answer that. While not perfect, he’s a steadying influence on the staff, and you pretty much know what you’re getting with him. 2 years does not break the Yankees financially or in time, and basically, he was going to be a place holder for the young pitchers who were to be ready by 2008 or 2009. Most of the pitching acquisitions ended up with poor results, but with the exception of Kevin Brown and Randy Johnson, I wouldn’t have thought the results were going to be that bad. Brown and Johnson had bad health, basically, and bad dispositions to go along with that. Never saw either one as a “Yankee.”
And even though you could foresee some of this breaking down, and I believe Cashman saw it, as well, would any one not have taken a gamble that they could eke out this year, and at the very least compete for the division title? At the beginning of this season, no one thought that Boston would dominate in this way.
I feel like I’m rambling a bit. Hindsight is 20/20. I think George Steinbrenner looks at his deal for Reggie Jackson and thinks that every free agent he goes after is going to have the same impact.
Anyway, Cashman seems to have it right this time, and I’m hoping he’s not the guy to take the fall for this season. I’m hoping the Yankees turn it around enough for that not to be an issue. Free agents are not going to save the Yankees without the complement of fixing the whole system. New Yorkers are big on patience, but they may have to dig deep to find their reserves, because this year, and possibly next, are going to demand it.
There was a reason that DeSalvo was DFA’d during the off season.
Dye makes sense because hes a right handed hitter.
desalvo shouldnt be starting games for a 210 million dollar team . he is not a big league starter . so , the yanks take 2 of 3 from boston and they send desalvo to the mound the next night ? not good . now they send clippard to the mound vs. the white sox #2 guy . not good at all .
Oops! New Yorkers are NOT big on patience. Sorry.
Lets be serious.
DeSalvo was the 10th option here. Name me a team with the 10th option being quality.
You can’t look at pitching matchups game to game and decide winners. That’s why they play the games. If it was like that Johan Santana would be 10-0.
Will Buehrle be tough? Sure. But what starter on Chicago isn’t quality?
“This, whoever you want to blame, is the season from hell.”
“… they’ve also had incredibly bad luck, karma, whatever. We should have known when Carl Pavano pitched opening day that it was not a good sign”
“However, if 3 of your 5 starters can’t pitch effectively, you aren’t winning games”
the adults speak and there is consensus. it is a season from hell with lots of bad karma and three bad starters.
for some reason, this reminds me of Dante’s Divine Comedy and when i was hitchiking around big sur with dante’s book in my backpack for the summer of ’68. mickey had just retired,the yankees were in last place. no wonder wandering around the beaches of northern california 3000 miles from home searching for purpose and meaning seemed like a good idea.
i remember something about dante wandering around in some dark foggy woods and coming to a gate that said, “Abandon all hope, whoever enter here”. i think that’s what sj44 is talking about when you only have two good starting pitchers.
if the yankees don’t get some pitching help soon ,it’s going to be time for another trip
( no comment murpydog).
Let’s remember that Clemems was supposed to start that game last night. Mr DeSalvo received a gift from the Yankees to try to prove his worth in one more game. If the Yankees get a bit of luck this season, we won’t see him again. Onward and upward.
Randy 1
Did you really read The Divine Comedy?
Tough loss last night, After the first few innings I chose to watch the MTV Video awards from Sunday night, switching to YES still half asleep. When I finally woke up Lorenz and Justice were on the screen talking about the loss. I quickly turned it off and went up to bed.
Bottom line, DeSalvo gave it his best shot. His future is not with the Yankees and probably not with the major leagues.
That takeout of Jeter was disturbing. Imagine A Rod did that? It would be front page news and half the league would be calling him Bush League.
Let’s take two of the next three and get it going.
You hit the nail on the head SJ44.
murphydog- i would have more confidence in cashman if he had said from the start that this was a rebuilding year and that the yankees would go through an ugly duckling period. that he didn’t expect this is a cause for concern. i really think he needs some help in the front office. i think trying to get loyal people around him that he could trust has left him with too little help. there are just too many fires for him to deal with with his minimalist front office.
i’m not saying to fire him but to get him some help. the yankees need an upgrade at first base, two starters, a couple relievers, and some bench help. posada can not keep catching as many games as he has been. he’s going to get a fatigue injury or burn out from exhaustion by the all star break. either play nieves more or get an upgrade there. all these things takes time and energy. cashman is only one person . seriously do we ever hear of anyone assisting him in the daily news. i know people have titles but what do they actually do that helps today. i know david wilder, the chicago asst gm, laid the groundwork for the jenks deal a few years ago that helped the white sox win in 2005. the yankees don’t seem to have this kind of asst gm.
the yankee can’t count on clemens or hughes being healthy. rushing both of them has made them both injury risks for the year. cashman needs to go out and get a veteran pitcher who can eat up some innings or the bullpen is going to be fried again.
the one constant this year is cashman being the lone ranger trying to solve problem after problem. cashman is creating problems as he’s trying to solve problems(clemens and hughes). he needs to get some help.
While I was washing the dishes, I was doing a little more thinking about the 2002-2004 seasons. 2002 was a fiasco versus the Angels, and I thank Mr. David Wells and the rally monkeys for that. However, 2003 was a fantastic year culminating in an incredible ALCS against the Red Sox. If I remember, at the time the consensus was that the ALCS was so grueling and took so much out of the Yankees that the World Series was anticlimactic. They had already beaten their most formidable opponent; it just wasn’t in the WS. I have no bad feelings about 2003. It was a great season, and they did get to the WS. In 2004, again, we have that formidable opponent, the Red Sox. This time it looked like we had them, but they slipped away. I have always looked at that as just the Red Sox’ time. The way it happened was almost surreal. Again, I thought the Yankees played tough, and there is absolutely no explanation beyond “it wasn’t meant to be” for them to have lost that series, especially the way it happened. I know I sound all “Age of Aquarius,” but sometimes the stars align for you, and sometimes they align for someone else.
2005 and 2006 were of a different nature. I think in both seasons the Yankees defied logic in even winning their division, because both seasons seemed pieced together. Even last year, where they tied with the major league lead for victories, I felt like they were fortunate to end up where they did. I will confess, I felt that since they had overcome so much in the way of major injuries to major players, and because I thought they had really come together as a team last year, that last year was going to be storybook. Alas, not to be. They had nothing left at the end, when it “counted.”
I know you can point to the decimation of the minor leagues and the aging players as reasons for this year, but it is still surreal in the way it’s playing out. And, truly, you cannot win major league games with minor league pitchers on the mound. But they’re up here pitching because of an unprecedented rash of injuries to the starting staff. And you could argue that this year’s staff wasn’t going to be great anyway, but I’d bet if they’d all been healthy coming out of spring training, pitching in a fixed rotation and allowed to find a rhythm, it sure as heck wouldn’t be this bad.
re: Cano – The guy has been smacking the heck out of the ball for a week now. I’d say he’s already out of it… he didn’t just get that one good hit to wake him up, he came out with 3 doubles and a single one game, and has not slowed down since. Equally important, he’s been hitting to all fields.
Last 7 games:
9/21 1HR 4RBI 3 doubles, 1 triple, BA/OBP/SLG: .429 .520 .810
I’d say that’s more than “starting to come out of it…” I’m expecting a nice hot streak.
I think Rowand is a FA after this season, so if they dont plan on signing him, they may be open to moving him for some usable parts. Farnsworth plus another younger arm I would imagine could do it.
I would imagine it depends on how far out the Phillies are from the Wild Card when the market starts to heat up, and by then, we may be too far out ourselves and it may be too late to actually go ahead and make that deal and have it make sense.
the “bush league” name used here has nothing to do with the Cano post… was left-over from a bad joke the other day……………
Randy 1 –
How does Cashman come out and say this is a rebuilding year after winning over 90 games last season? Plus, your starting lineup is pretty much the same one that led the majors in runs scored? I think he addressed the issue of needing stock the minor leagues with young arms. No doubt it’s less and less simply a transition year, but re-building kind of suggests a tearing down, and they didn’t really do that. I think Cashman believed he could do this without a lot of disruption. And, IMO, no reasonable person would foresee this. In spite of the weakness of their pitching, the Yankees were still being pegged at 90-plus wins this year by MOST people, fans, media, baseball people, alike. Every worst case scenario has unfolded before our eyes.
I would expect Cashman to get something done after the draft, which is taking a lot of attention right now, and it’s necessary attention if the Yankees want to avoid seasons like this in the future.
doreen-
yeah it took 6 months. i’ve still got the beat up old paperback in a trunk in the basement. i should read it again. i’m sure there’d be some lessons in there about climbing out of the depths the yankees have gotten to. the yankees need a virgil to guide them out.
i’m not sure that’s cashman. i think he’s one of the lost ones.
Doreen, your thoughts were interesting and I was just wondering if one of the things that has added to the Yankee troubles is that other teams have improved. The Yankee organization was alone at the top in spending for years. The Red Sox in particular have made a concerted effort to catch up, Toronto has also. So now the division is more competitive. It was just a matter of time and the time is now. Cashman has been making moves that will benefit the team in the future, but he forgot we still have to play baseball in the meantime. The AL East is the toughest division of all so using AAA guys to fill the gaps isn’t working. Not to mention being saddled with the bloated contracts of aging, broken down ex-super stars. With that said, I still think there’s a good chance for the Yanks to hang in there and win the Wild Card. Can’t imagine a post season without them in it.
how is Rowand’s arm?
I really don’t think I want to see Damon at first. Maybe it’s just distaste remaining from the Sheffield experiment, but I think he’d end up being a disaster there (trying to learn on the fly instead of having an off-season and ST to learn) and I’d rather see Andy Phillips if we can’t/don’t trade for someone better (Teixeira).
mary ellen –
I agree with you about other teams in the division spending the money to become more competitive. More teams in baseball are evenly matched, not just in the AL East. It’s tougher to get a competitive edge.
“Cashman…forgot that we still have to play baseball in the meantime.” It sure looks like that’s the case. The Yankees have been so successful for so long, I suppose it’s easy to go on “autopilot” and make certain assumptions. On the one hand, it’s understandable, on the other hand, it takes a certain amount of hubris to believe that your team is so much better (than its competition) that it can withstand a “transition.” I think the results of the last 2 seasons, where they won division in spite of injuries and inconsistent pitching, may have lulled Cashman (and even Torre) into thinking they were really, really invincible (at least as far as the regular season was concerned.)
Hopefully Britton did enough to prove to Joe that he is good enough to get abused and worn out.
Rowand is a bulldog. He’ll run into walls. He’s got a very good arm, and great range. He can run a little bit on the bases, and has decent power from the right side of the plate.
Between Aaron Rowand and/or Eric Byrnes, both would relatively low-cost in nature, be an upgrade in CF defensively, and be a RH sparkplug offensively.
Yankees have always owned Buerhle
Randy 1 –
Every summer, I try to tackle a literary “classic.” The Divine Comedy never even made the list! I am impressed.
doreen -
when things keep going wrong, you have to look at the person in charge or the strategies he or she is implementing.
this is the second year of cashman being is 100% control. things should be better not worse. the bench is his. the end of the rotation problems are his. rushing hiughes and clemens is his. we may never see hughes or clemens this year because of cashman not being strong enough to be patient.
i not trying to bash him though. i ‘d like to see him get some help and build the team making some good decisions instead of the panic ones he seems to be making.
this could easily turn around, but some good decisions need to be made. abreau and cano are playing well again. there’s still the potential for this to be a good playoff team. pitching is in crisis mode again. that’s the first thing that has to be fixed. let’s cross our fingers on clemens. it’s going to be a huge risk to start the financial meter ticking on giving him his first start. i’d slow it down and give him a couple of weeks for his body to get adjusted to pitching. pitchers like him will pitch hurt when they shouldn’t. look at pettitte trying to pitch after the back tweak the other night. not smart of him and not smart of the yankee staff. they saw him wince. he should have been taken right out. they should back off on clemens and give him a few weeks to get strong and healthy. having him rush it and get hurt won’t help the wins and it’ll throw away 18 million.
the correct decision is to wait a few weeks. this kind of decision is what i’m talking about with cashman. it should be an easy one. for some reason his common sense has been going out the window. he’s smart enough to make the right decisions, he just need to make them.
When I need a good laugh I know to come directly to this blog and I have great laughs for hours on end. Here are some of my favorite statements that make me laugh:
“We almost won with a rookie”
No you didn’t. Almost winning is like 6-5. 6-1 in the ninth doesn’t count with this team.
“We need to win the next three because Boston is about to go into a slump”
2 funny ones in one sentence. Boston doesn’t have it in them to lose more than 2 at a time. They’ll be no major slumps from this young, well-stocked team. They’re entire bench started last night on no sleep came back last night and almost beat the A’s in the 11th. That’s pretty good. Do you think your bench could do that? I don’t think so!
Keep up the good entries. I’m going to need some good laughs during the long, hot summer.
7 games under .500. Do you notice a trend: win one, lose one, win two, lose five, win one, lose one. That will pretty much be what you see from this old, beat-up, overused bull-pen, not enough starting pitching of a team for the rest of the year. Welcome to last place….again!
An upgrade in CF over Damon or over Melky?
well, thats if you shift Melky to LF, DH Matsui, and play Damon at 1B.
They are both certainly an upgrade over Damon, but I would hesitate to make the move if Damon is not shifted to 1B regularly.
turn two,
i have loved watching rowand for years, but how does he fit in with melky out there. wouldn’t it be better to use yankees trading resources to get a veteran pitcher to stabilize the back end of the rotation ? i’d rather get a pitcher from philly.
You can never have enough HEALTHY PITCHING. Just shows what awesome work Aaron Small and Shawn Chacon did a couple of years back. We need their types.
i’m just going along with what someone else said when they mentioned Rowand. if they would rather trade Fransworth for Lieber, thats fine by me, too.
i’m in the mindset that something has to be done to shake up this roster. what that may be, i really dont know for sure, and thats why i’m not the GM of the Yankees.
but i do know that, as constructed, they arent getting the job done, and the season is starting to get later than all of us are comfortable with. I’m not talking wholesale changes or selling the farm to push for the wild card, but something’s gotta give here…
I just don’t think Damon would do well at 1B without an off-season to do it. He has the athleticism, but needs more time to learn the position than to throw him anytime soon.
I would love to have Rowand though, and Melky in the OF every day, be it in CF, RF, LF…. wherever.
I also hate Abreu’s defense this year. Maybe he’s just got his head up his arse because of his struggles at the plate and his defense will improve? I don’t recall it being this atrocious last year.
I guess I like Cashman and so I always give him the benefit of the doubt. But it is undeniable that the make-up of the bench is directly attributable to him. The bullpen, too, BUT the bullpen looked very good coming out of spring training. The starting staff, I think he thought he could get away with because of the offense, so I guess that’s on him, BUT the pitching market was thin, and he’s trying to address the absence of good pitching within their own system. He’s not perfect, but he’s not the clueless buffoon a lot of people here make him out to be. I suspect that having George Steinbrenner as his boss has a lot to do with the way Cashman is able to do his job. You know 100% control is not what he has as long as Steinbrenner is the owner. Steinbrenner has veto power and that trumps “100%” every time.
I’m trying to remember that “you’re never as good as you look when things are going well, and you’re never as bad as you look when things are going poorly.”
It was painful watching tha game last night. Especially both of Josh Phelps’ GIDPs. I was yelling at the TV for him to bunt. The Red Sox series definitely took its toll on the team and DeSalvo’s appearance did not help at all. I can only imagine how different it would have been if Clemens (who could have been our Virgil) pitched, but alas we will never know.
It’s just been rough watching these guys because you can see they really are trying to grind out some wins, but with all the setbacks it becomes increasinly difficult to maintain a positive attitude. It is, however, encouraging to see Cano, Melky, and Abreu start hitting again. Let’s hope T Clip can continue to improve and prove to us he’s a worthy #5.
Abreu is good defensively in the gaps as far as covering ground, and has a decent arm, but he has always bee scared of the walls. This is what he is defensively speaking.
randy1:
Divine Comedy, Inferno, The Prince and, speaking of “trips,” Dharma Bums and Electric Kool Aid Acid Test just to name a few… I, however, read them in the Bronx, not Big Sur, shuttling between college campus and jobs in a supermarket and a funeral home ; )
As for Cash, I don’t object to him having help, but i think he does already have staff. If he needs better staff, he should have it, but with the usual caveats. Gotta watch out for having assistants who are too strong or powerful. Number one, they dilute your leadership and vision (too many cooks, etc.). Number two, there’s always the ones with that “lean and hungry look” who wind up playing for your job behind your back when Big Stein takes a liking to the “cut of their jib.”
Doreen: Your analysis of the ways this team degenerated into this years’ model is right on. I think Cash saw some of this coming but also had pressure to keep winning so he couldn’t implement his plan. But the fulfillment of the worst case scenario this year can’t be attributed solely to the bench, bullpen and Kei Igawa. It’s “for want of a nail the shoe was lost, for want of the shoe the horse was lost” etc. The physical failure of the pitching rotation exposed the unready minor league replacements, exposed and degraded the middle relief (every team’s soft underbelly) and after that, it’s kind of academic.
Was DeSalvo really that bad? I mean, they botched 2 double plays behind him. The Arod DP got 1 out, allowed 1 run to score, didn’t get the 2nd out. The Phelps DP got no outs and allowed 2 runs to score on his throwing error (I believe).
He might not have looked great, but he should’ve gotten out of the 2nd inning with 1 run if his defense hadn’t let him down.
The quick hook by Torre last night was another reason why he should be gone. Burns his bullpen once again – this time because he wouldn’t let DeSalvo pitch out of trouble. Instead, the bullpen gets to come in for some ‘extra work’ to get to the next game. Why not just let him pitch to the 4th, or gasp, into the 5th inning?
According to the New York Daily News, the White Sox are not interested in a rumored Jermaine Dye-for-Bobby Abreu trade.
The newspaper reports that Yankees general manager Brian Cashman pursued the rumored trade Monday, but White Sox general manager Kenny Williams “expressed no interest in swapping outfielders.
Here’s the problem with Rowand. He’s another Johnny Damon, health-wise.
Its great that he runs into walls, so does Damon, for those who are into that type of thing. Its like buying a Corvette after its been in three accidents.
Physically, he is 40 years old. The LAST thing they need on this roster.
Randy,
If Cashman announced a “rebuilding” season in NY, at the start of the year, he would get killed. Also, let’s not forget, its bad for business when you are drawing 4 million fans a year.
That’s the Catch-22 with the Yankees. Everybody wants to “fix it and “win it all” in the same year. Its impossible.
Has he made mistakes? Yes he has. The lack of a bench being the #1 mistake he has made this year. Has he also been victimized by the rashness of George and the stupidity of the “Tampa Crowd” (see Sheffield instead of Vlad, Jared Wright, and Randy Johnson over Beltran)? Yes he has.
Add to it an unbelievable amount of injuries this year and the steep decline and slumps of others, he’s left with a mish mash of a roster that (IMO) is not capable of winning this year.
This may be his best chance yet to “rebuild” properly if the team continues to struggle going toward the trade deadline.
If he can swing a Teixera deal, for example, he gets younger and better. If a few guys can step up, perhaps they make a Wild Card run. Either way, the remaking of the roster needs to start during THIS season, not the off-season, if they want to be successful in 2008.
Actually that is good. Abreu will break out now for sure and Dye will tank.
How is Seattle only 2 games out of the Wild Card?
Team Games Back
Detroit -
Seattle 2
Oakland 3
Minnesota
Chicago 4.5
Toronto 5
Baltimore 6
New York 7.5
sorry, spacing got screwed up:
Team Games Back
Detroit -
Seattle 2
Oakland 3
Minnesota 4
Chicago 4.5
Toronto 5
Baltimore 6
New York 7.5
murphydog –
“For want of a nail…”
I haven’t heard that expression in a long time! But it really does sum up a lot of what’s wrong here. And that expression then made me think that a team with the Yankees’ “cash” and “cache” should NEVER be in want of a nail!
You can’t even say they were being “penny wise and pound foolish,” because they spent money. I guess they were “throwing good money after bad.”
And no, I’m not conceding the Division or anything else with 107 games left to play. Just wondered how the Wild Card standings looked with teams like Chicago struggling.
The Matt DeSalvo roller coaster is finally over. He rose through the ranks, dropped to the depths of Hell in 2006, rose all the way back up in 2007, winning his first big-league game, and now he has fallen again — and next year you can expect him to be gone altogether.
They DFA’d him last year because they needed his roster spot. They will be doing that again, no doubt, and won’t be bringing him back.
There are too many legit pitching prospects in this system to keep a fringe guy like DeSalvo. Next year’s AAA rotation, at some point, will include Ian Kennedy and Joba Chamberlain. Chase Wright will probably repeat there, too. And Rasner, Karstens, Ohlendorf and Clippard (if he’s still not on the big-league team) are all in play. There’s no room for novelist extraordinaire Matt DeSalvo in this organization.
It wouldn’t shock me if he ended up as a longman for an NL team or something like that.
De Salvo pitched much worse than his results. He wasn’t throwing strikes and didn’t look confident. No matter what the stats say, it was a much worse performance than even the story they tell.
I don’t think Rowand is a FA but I will look it up later. I would love Eric Byrnes. He is a hard nosed player who is actually having a semi-All Star year for the D-Backs. Plus he is young, something our outfield isn’t. Arizona is rebuilding from the farm so they probably wouldn’t take any big name guys off our hands but may trade Byrnes for a young pitcher.
Kenny Williams is one of the better GM’s, he isn’t going to make a bad trade giving up Dye for Abreu. I really don’t think it matters. They are both FA and this year is starting to look bleek.
I see Shea Hillenbrand just got demoted to bench player. Wonder if we can pry him from the Angels.
Bill, I don’t fault Torre for the quick hook last night, even though it’s true he doesn’t give his starters much rope. DeSalvo didn’t have it, and it was early. Garland started off slow, and it was reasonable to assume the Yankees could score some early runs. Why allow the game to get out of control early, especially if you know you’re not exactly the comeback kids this season? But the DP’s killed the Yankees’ early opportunies, and Garland found his stride. If the Yankees had scored but 2 more runs in those early chances, the game could have been won. Coulda, woulda, shoulda.
How can anybody question Torre for taking out DeSalvo.
He can’t throw the ball over the plate. He pitched the same way the last time he faced the White Sox.
Nobody watching that game last night could possibly think, a kid who is 2-0, 3-1 to every hitter, was going to get through the game.
If you are going to rip Torre, at least rip him on a strategy that makes sense.
The kid was already up to 44 pitches in less than 2 innings and half were strikes.
He isn’t any good and keeping him in there wasn’t going to matter.
peter’s right about abreu. i spoke too soon last week. obviously changed breakfast cereals.
i hear sam militello is being recalled…
Shea Hillenbrand is having an awful season. He isn’t going to help.
Aaron Rowand is a nice player who, like a lot of the present Yankees, is beat up physically. Yes, he plays hard, like Johnny Damon. But, also like Damon, his body has paid the price. I don’t think he would be a wise investment, given the beating his body has taken over the years.
Their OF solution is simple. Ichiro. Physically and talent-wise, the best available FA OF. Yes, he would cost a lot of money. However, the Yankees have a lot of money AND have a lot of money coming off the books.
Ichiro will be able to play another 4 years easily in the OF. He is the answer to their OF problems, IMO.
do they ever win after a middle of the night commute?
They’re old and something is always missing after midnight road trips out West.
I’m still pissed at Phelps for that throw. Jeter will never complain about an injury, but who knows what’s going on with that ankle/foot/shin, whatever… that was slowing him down so much last night. If he’s at 1B tonight I’m throwing my (hotel) TV out the window.
Hillenbrand? That would be worse than the Pavago deal.
Chris NY –
It sure seems that way! Even last year, after the 5-game sweep, didn’t they lose to Seattle immediately after that?
As much as he’s effective, I hate Ichiro’s “slap single” approach. I know fundamentally, it’s what he does to do his job, get on base… but it just seems cheap, to me.
Doreen:
I think the present Yankees are an example of what happens under a fractured and inconsistent business plan, where the business claims to have a future that is 100% now, yet the reality of their operating environment dictates that they must plan patiently and soundly for a future from within. This company is out of strategic balance, preparing haphazardly for the future while making contradictory and unsound moves in the present. (What a consulting goldmine! There are such obvious issues to spot and obvious recommendations to make. Now, where’s my check?)
Put another way, the solution is like the joke about going to the doctor. “Doc it hurts when I sign aging veteran mercenaries to contracts that are too expensive and too long, and then I simultaneously underspend on, and neglect, the draft and the farm system.” And Doctor Cashman says “Don’t do that.”
Hi Doreen,
Off topic, but I am on my way out to grab the new McCartney record. Have you given it a listen? The samples sound like 1977-79 Wings.
News rumblings about a tour this year or next. He hasnt had a stronger one to tour behind in quite some time, it seems.
that brings up another good point (I think someone already made it in this thread), always a let down after a Boston series, because those games take so much out of everyone. They always seem half-asleep the next day.
Not that they’re not working hard and trying, but most people are a at least a little off when travelling in the middle of the night.
Damon uses that same approach (Ichiro) 80% of the time. And when he’s down in the count, it goes up to like 99.8%.
Cashman needs to be on the phone now in regards to a long man in the pen and quality 1B. Christ.
I don’t know, Bill. I know Damon reaches out and slaps balls sometimes, but I don’t think 80%. Maybe it’s just not as obvious with Damon, but he shows more power and I don’t think the percentage of slap shots are that high.
I know people have said Ichiro has power in BP, just doesn’t use it in games…….. Is no-one ever on base in front of him or do they not have a need for a solo HR from time to time? Getting on base is great, it’s his job… but would you rather have a guy standing on first or a run on the board? If he can do both, he should.
DeSalvo down, who up?
How many games do guys think the Yankees will finish with this year? Honestly, give me a number… Maybe Peter can do a Poll.
I’m saying between 84-87 Wins.
I think the bottom line here is that no team is going to win the World Series every year, no matter what approach they take. You can consistently field a competitive team, you can get to the playoffs more times than not, but there are too many variables, too much human-ness in the game, and too much chance, to guarantee the ultimate prize each year.
The Yankees’ mantra that if you don’t win the World Series, you’ve not had a successful season does a disservice to everyone in the organization. It serves to diminish the real accomplishments of the team during the regular season and puts an inordinate amount of pressure on all aspects of the organization to attain the unattainable — complete dominance of a sport for an extended and unending period of time. That is the attitude that leads to the quick fixes and other questionable decisions.
Teams like the A’s, the Twins, the Braves, build from within and do a great job of it. They are always competitive. But they don’t win every year, either.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t aim for the prize every year, but when you create a culture of “all or nothing,” or “win at any cost,” you really are setting yourself up for certain disappointment. Plus, the Yankees mortgaged their future for their present, so now they are bankrupt from a talent aspect. It’s going to be difficult, but they’re are going to have to resist any urge to rob Peter to pay Paul this season.
My guess is Cashman has already been making calls to Texas. Whether or not there’s much discussion (Texas supposedly isn’t quite ready to deal Tex yet), who knows. But I highly doubt he’s sitting on his thumbs with our 1B option being Phelps (an obvious Red Sox fan hoping to single handedly put every Yankee infielder on the DL).
We’ll see Phillips called up today and Phelps on the bench. He should consider himself lucky to be on the bench and not on a bus back to Bmore.
yo
Bill, 94 wins.
But Chris NY, maybe he wants to go back to B’more — they’re ahead of the Yanks in the standings right now.
And no, I’m not saying Phillips is my answer. Just the immediate answer while Cashman shops for something better.
Chris NY,
I know that Phelps hasn’t shined with the glove but he is a much better hitter than Menky and Philips. Don’t forget his RBI in the ninth last night and his 2 hits on Sunday.
True, Doreen. And Bmore might like it too. You get what you pay for, and Phelps is definitely worth 25 thousand…
Off topic, but –
I did something I never, ever do. On principle, I don’t ever “stuff” the ballot box at All-Star time. I submit my one vote and that’s that. But when I heard that Posada was 4th among catchers, I said, that’s just ridiculous! So, I voted as much as they would allow me. And then I’m going to use my daughter’s e-mail to vote as much as they’ll allow her.
I guess if they allow you 25 votes, 25 votes is equal to 1.
I agree Marc, but I wouldn’t go as far as to say “much better…” You also have to remember that before he got housed, Meinky was bringing up his average and had some big hits and RBI’s of his own. They’re not miles apart with the bat, but they are not only miles apart with the glove, Phelps has cost probably as many runs or close to as many runs as he’s driven in.
His average looks ok because he hadn’t played much. He’s only had half the AB’s that Mienky’s had and Mienky, if he could have continued to hit the way he was the last few weeks, would be almost as good, if not as good, a hitter as phelps.
Phelps is not a .300 hitter. He almost got Jeter killed. He’s a liability with his glove and his arm and now we’re talking about more than just costing us runs. I don’t care if I never see that guy in pinstripes again.
“Hillenbrand? That would be worse than the Pavago deal.”
That deal must have awful, I never heard of Pavago.
As for Shea, he’s having a bad year, but look at his career numbers. He is almost 33, has averaged 18 HR’s, 77 RBI’s and .294 Avg in the last 3 years. He’s a righty with a one year deal, who I believe plays better than average defense and can back up at 3rd, or even start there in 2008 if we lose A Rod.
I think Shea would be a very good stopgap and even could lower the price on Texiera when Texas sees we have anothe option. Plus his value will never be lower.
Phelps isn’t in the same league as Minky or Phillips defensively. Not even close. Overall, he isn’t as good a first baseman as either guy.
His offense production isn’t that much better either.
His 9th inning hit? In a 6-1 game? How about the two GIDP’s and the K looking when the game wasn’t in such dire shape? Those two DP’s, along with his error, changed the entire game. A cheap single in the 9th inning of a blowout game doesn’t change that fact.
Offensively, the more he plays, the less he will hit. We are seeing that now.
You also can’t discount how bad he is at first base. Its awful. He can’t play first base. Its sad to watch him try.
The guy shouldn’t even be on the roster, let alone in the starting lineup.
Its the classic case of getting excited over a couple of hits in spring training, off nobody pitchers, and believing a guy can play. He’s a Rule 5 guy for a reason.
Remember the “Why is Melky on the roster over Bronson Sardhina” talk, after the spring Sardhina had?
Well, Sardhina is hitting .200 in AAA.
Folks get too caught up in stats and if the stats don’t have any context to them, they are meaningless.
Josh Phelps cost them 3 runs last night. His offense can’t make up for that.
Why do Hillenbrand’s career numbers matter. What is he doing this year? If he is a stop gap, isn’t it more relevent what he is doing this year?
The Angels have been looking for offense all year. If he isn’t hitting in Anaheim, he isn’t hitting in NY.
Plus, why would Anaheim look to help out the Yankees? There is no incentive for the Angels to trade with the Yankees and try to help them get better.
Not the least of which, Hillenbrand is known as a real bad guy in the clubhouse. His time with Boston and Toronto weren’t pretty with his teammates. I would pass on him.
Doreen, it’s ridiculous that they allow more than one. But you’re right, if they’re gonna allow more than one, you might as well use it, because others are… Jeter got screwed out of the All-Star game a couple years ago because these other clowns campaigned for an invite, pathetic.
“Please, pick me, pick me!!” Losers.
Sj44,
I must have short term memory because I don’t remember last night’s game being a blow out. In fact didn’t the Yankees bring the tying run to the plate? If not for Phelps hi in the ninth Jeter never even gets up!
Did I mention that I don’t like Phelps? I shouldn’t say I don’t care if I ever see him in Yankee pinstripes again. I do care. I don’t want to see it. I don’t even want that clown walking around the clubhouse sticking his foot out as A-Rod walks by. I don’t want him putting eyedrops in Mariano’s soup.
I’ll pay the 25K to send him back to bmore. Later on Josh.
Marc, he’s hitting .279 after 68 at bats. Do you have some Major League reason that he’s a better hitter than that, or that he’s even a .279 hitter? He’s a career .269 hitter that hasn’t played more than 100 games since 2003 and did that exactly once (119 games that year).
It’s been said he’s a Rule 5 guy for a reason. He’s also worth 25k for a reason.
Yes he had 20 Homers a few years ago and a had an amazing ST.
to C Gramazi:
Unfortunately the Yankees are going to have to deal with Arods alternative lifestyle now that it has put him in the wayward celebrity section of the mainstream media. I’m sure the Yankees will try to sweep the dirt under their rug, but as the kids say – “It’s Already Out There”
Phelps is a much better hitter than Mientkiewicz, but that’s really not saying much. Phelps, at his very best, is probably a league-average hitter, which is not what you want from a first baseman. Mientkiewicz is horrendous for any position.
What can’t be debated is that his offense wasn’t good enough to compensate for his below-average defense.
In the offseason I said that Mienktiewicz was the team’s worst signing. What I really should have said was that Cashman failed to give us a passable setup at first. For all the praise Mientkiewicz got when he did anything positive, his overall contribution to the team was almost nil. Phelps is not much better, and like Mientkiewicz will probably hover around replacement level.
We need to make sacrifices to get Teixeira. He would make a world of difference at first. We do not have an answer there now and, without Teixeira, we may not have answer there in 2008.
The only thing more useless than 20 HR’s 4 years ago is an “amazing ST.”
Sorry bro, he’s no good.
Seriously, think about this for a second. Think about the Giambi argument. His defense is horrendous, but the argument is (or was, before he was so unhealthy he couldn’t do more than DH anyway) that he drives in more runs than his defense costs.. so he’s a plus overall. Then look at Phelps, whose defense is actually even worse, possibly MUCH worse than Giambi’s (at least Giambi can make good picks). Do you honestly think Phelps has the RBI potential of Giambi to make up for his 4.0 ERA?
“What can’t be debated is that his offense wasn’t good enough to compensate for his below-average defense.”
That’s unclear, I meant to refer to Phelps. I don’t want to start a riot by saying that Mientkiewicz’s defense is below average, despite what those darned statistics say.
Mienky got off to a bad start, but he’s a career .268 hitter that hit .283 just last year. .268, sound familiar?
With over 1/3 of the season done, the Yanks are 7.5 games behind the Tigers for the Wild Card….but it gets worse! The AL Wild Card Team has averaged 95 wins since 1996….almost 96 if one discounts Baltimore’s 88 wins in 1996, the only year the AL Wild Card Team had less than 91 wins. To get to 95 wins, the Yankees will have to go 71-36 (.664)for the rest of the season….that translates to 107/108 wins in a 162-game season. Does anyone really think this Yankee Team, with its injuries, pitching, defense, age, and other weaknesses, can play like the ’61 Yankees (109 wins) for 2/3 of a season??! Even achieving the historical low of 88 wins would require 21 games over .500 and .598 baseball. There is just no more margin for injuries, slumps, mistakes, bad calls, bad luck, etc., for the remaining 107 games. We must hope that this year the AL will be much more balanced than in years past, and everyone beats each either up so the Wild Card does not require so many wins. Let’s hope that the Tigers, ChiSox, Twins, Angels, A’s , etc., all play below their potential….or the Captain will be home in October for the first time in his career….and the Yankee-haters will rejoice. One wonders what would then happen in the off-season regarding AROD, other players, Joe Torre, coaches, etc. About the only untouchables would be the Captain, Hughes, Wang, – and Bob Sheppard!
Wow. Jeff NJ is a moron.
I don’t know what’s worse – Jeff NJ not getting the Pavano joke (‘Pavago’), or thinking the Yankees should go after Shea Hillenbrand.
Chris NY, he also has a career .760 OPS and .269 EQA. Bad.
If AVG is important, he couldn’t break .250 in 2004 or 2005. Based on how he was going this year, I figure a repeat of 2004 or 2005 is more likely than 2006.
He is a terrible hitter.
If any really knowledgeable sabremetricians are out there, I’d love an explanation for the dichotomy between the popular perception of Mientkiewicz as being a great fielder (shared by actual baseball people such as Damon and Mattingly) and his fielding stats, which have rated him as average or worse since 2003. I don’t get this – he has looked good to me this year too.
“that translates to 107/108 wins in a 162-game season”
No, it doesn’t. It translates to 71 out of 107 wins, period.
You can’t break apart a season and say they have to do this, which would be like….. that’s meaningless. You could probably pick apart a lot of seasons and I’m sure you would find stretches where they played .800 ball. Doesn’t mean that season they were capable of 130 wins.
The reality, and where your point is valid… is that we’re not talking about a 10 or 20 game stretch, but 107 games. The reality in that is that they have to play at a .665 level OVERALL. Which means they need to put together some series wins. Last time I checked, 2/3 = a series win and = .666. They need to win some series, and sweep some series to make up for anytime they don’t.
.665 is not impossible by any means. Easy, no. But is possible.
Jeremy, not saying Mienky is a good hitter.. point was just that Phelps really isn’t much better, if at all.
Chris NY, we’re in full agreement there. Neither is good and that has been a big problem with the team from day one.
Did you see that – just for them to reach 88 wins, they have to play at a .600 clip the rest of the way.
Yikes.
Exactly, Jeremy. With a healthy Giambi at DH and everyone hitting like they’re capable, I was willing to live with Mienky’s bat because his defense (whether it’s as good as perceived or not) is solid. But with Giambi not producing and now not playing, we need a real 1B that can hit.
The point of stock-piling the farm was for the future as well as for trade chips. Teixeira (provided he’d sign an extension) would be an investment in the here and now, as well as in the future, so use those chips, just not too many of them and keep the untouchables untouchable (Hughes, Tabata, Kennedy).
I think the Yankees knew this was going to be a rebuilding year, they just didn’t go public with it. All the talk about getting younger, getting cheaper, no recent long term contracts and reloading the minors- that’s rebuilding. When you have the financial resources the Yankees do, there’s no need to trade off players and dump salary to rebuild. Big picture thinking- waste cash short-term for bigger returns long term.
The Yankees need to get payroll under luxury tax limit though. Since the implementation of the luxury tax, the Yankees have lost a competitive advantage and have instead subsidized other teams chances of winning. Not all owners are willing to dig into their own pockets for players contracts and with the luxury tax they don’t have to.
anyone know where to find out what our percentage was for the last 107 games in 2005? or any year for that matter?
I agree, they have to win at a high percentage over the next 107 games to get to the playoffs. At a higher clip than normal. But 107 games is still 107 games and .665 is still 2 out of 3, not 3/4, 4/5, etc. It’s entirely possible.
and I am by no means ok with being so far under .500 at this stage (or any stage) in the season. I’m just not willing to give up after 1/3 of the season.
Bill, let’s not let the board degenerate to 3rd grade name calling. I have an opinion that I think Hillenbrand should be considered. It does not make me a moron. It is free speech. If you disagree and have a reason other than “it would be a disaster” or “you’re a moron” or any signs of intelligence, then I would listen.
Read the way SJ44 responded, before you post one of your brilliant insightful postings.
I don’t think the Yankees’ goal should be getting under the luxury tax threshhold. They have money, they need to use it to their advantage. I despise the luxury tax, but that’s probably because I’m a Yankees’ fan and don’t like the idea that because they’re a financially successful franchise that is wiling to spend money to field a winning team that they should be penalized by subsidizing owners who may or may not care whether they field a winning team, and don’t have any mandate to use that money. Smacks of socialism to me, and in my limited view, socialism tends to even the playing field, but on a lower level, not a higher one, in the long term. (In other words, everyone gets poor.)
The boston dirt dogs website has pictures of the media game brawl.
http://bostondirtdogs.com/
So, it was the Pavago joke, wasn’t it?
I’m sorry, but I do not need to write 6 paragraphs, like SJ, on why the Yankees do not need to go after Hillenbrand. His performance and stats prove for him to be a horrible asset to the team – bottomline. So, again, you and your idea for the Yankees to consider him, is senseless.
Something to think about……In his last 31 games, Mientkiewicz had more RBI than Arod, Abreu, Giambi and Damon in the same period. He also hit .284 during that span of games.
He is a good, solid ML player. An excellent defensive player. There is no doubt he is not only a better player than Phelps, he is going to be missed.
On a team that can’t afford anymore injuries, Doug’s injury is a killer because, as we saw last night, the more Phelps plays, the less he shows.
IMO, the only viable in house option is Andy Phillips.
I never heard the Pavago line before. Even if I did, i don’t think that qualifies as a joke, there is nothing funny about it. If it is an attempt to bash Carl, fine, ha, great one, you are hysterical, I won’t be able to stop smiling all day, Pavago, wow, that is creative!
Anyway, not only do I think Shea would be an upgrade over Phelps. I think Cashman will make a move for him, they almost signed him in the offseason, so it’s not that much of a stretch. And we could get him for cheap, costing money and probably one low prospect. Plus unlike bill, I bet he hates the Red Sux, who unceremoniously traded him. Mark my words, Cash is going to get him.
SJ44 –
Ironic. Before acquiring Mientkiewicz and Phelps, Cashman said he was perfectly happy with Andy at 1B. He may have to be, IF they call him up.
As a Yankee fan I too hate the luxury tax, but doesn’t look like the rule is going to change anytime soon. Might be good for competitive balance in the MLB but hurts the NYY or other teams who make money and are willing to spend it on players. The NYY’s advantage of getting free agents that other teams let walk because they say they couldn’t afford the signing has gone away. That’s why I think the NYY need get under the limit and stop paying it. They are now subsidizing salaries of the competition.
rm, interesting pic on there about Manny with his i-pod on during games. I wonder how long it takes before an collision in the outfield because of that…..
SJ44, Mientkiewicz had a 0.7 WARP3. He is the definition of an easily-replaceable player.
One other thing on Mienky though. Torre and some of the players seemed to think he was a great clubhouse guy and his grit and hard work seemed to rub off on other guys. That’s worth something. Not putting a ‘C’ on his chest or anything, but it is worth something.
murphydog, doreen-
right now cashman has one of those decisions that separates the good ones from the bad ones. he has to decide when to activate clemens. it’s on the table as we speak. i wouldn’t activate him for at least two weeks because of the groin tweak. clemens will move heaven and earth to get ready. he’ll pitch hurt and weak but do we want him to do that? i sure don’t . i’m guessing sj44 doesn’t want to take a chance on the money if he’s not 100% healthy.
this is cashman’s decision. so what should he do?
this is as good a place as any to watch how cashman thinks. this is a biggie now that clemens was allowed to rush. should he be allowed to keep rushing which could put his whole year in jeopardy?
Why would the Angels help the Yankees? Think about it. A playoff contending team is not going to help a playoff contending team acquire players.
Teams don’t help other possible playoff opponents improve themselves.
Also, Bill Stoneman (Angels GM) always asks for the moon when it comes to trades. Its why he rarely makes trades.
If you watched Hillenbrand this year, he looks at shot as half the guys on the Yankees roster. He was hitting between Vlad and Matthews earlier this year and couldn’t hit anything.
Cashman may have been looking at him in the off-season. However, if he and his scouts have watched games (which they have) I bet they don’t touch him. He isn’t hitting and that’s the only value he brings to a roster.
Looking around the league, there aren’t a lot of guys out there who can help the Yankees right now unless the Yankees open the minor league vault
I think the Yanks should take a flyer on Brett Smith,currently pitching for Trenton.He has shown promise,and could be useful,perhaps in a trade.Another question for the yanks is should their 1st base replacement,and there will be a 1st base replacement, be a righty or lefty hitter.A simple answer to all the problems we face would evaporate if we could persuade A rod and Damon to waive their no trade clauses.
SJ44 – Phillips was waived and cleared, and then assigned to Scranton. He is not on the 40 man roster. To add Phillips to the Yankees major league roster would force them to remove another player from the 40 man and expose that player to waivers. Is Andy Phillips as a stopgap really worth losing another player? Is Phillips really that much of an upgrade?
Pat I’m not so sure they thought it was a rebuilding year when they sign that waste Igawa for 50mm and re-up Mussina for 2 more years (I was fine with the latter).
I think they overestimated the lineup, the relievers and didnt put much attention into a bench they didnt think they would need.
That said it does seem they are avoiding the monstrous contracts and are hoping to do well in this years draft. I just worry that the same people who’ve picked the pitchers for the past 3 years will be doing the drafting.
Not sure what it will take for Texira but why not, hes young and they need a first basemen. But I think its about time guys took a little bit less to come to NY. I remember O’Neill did it and Ortiz did it in Boston.
Just another demonstration by a soft-tossing Nobody in our overrated farm system. What an embarrassment of humanity for the ages. Too bad, no time for the much ashamed masses to recover—-we will see another one of those tonight.
Jeremy,
You are buried too much in a stat sheet and not watching the games.
Easily replaceable? How did Phelps do last night?
Its the problem with you stat heads. You don’t watch the games. Just look at numbers.
Don Mattingly, who knows a thing or two about first base, says Doug is the best first baseman they have had in years.
Now, you say he is “easily replacable” over a convuluted defensive statistic that most teams ignore when evaluating defensive players.
So, I am left with the question of who to believe. My eyes, Don Mattingly, or some inane stat that was already disproven in ONE night.
I think i’ll go with my eyes and Donnie Baseball.
Jeff NJ- I was being sarcastic. Calm down buddy.
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(Shea Hillenbrand still blows)
this “picture”:http://bostondirtdogs.boston.c.....7_bgjd.jpg should win an award:
new wallpaper…
Allright fellas (and ladies) – I agree with most of the stuff on here except for one thing: we are not getting Tex from Texas, plain and simple.
Unless you want to kiss Phil Franchise Hughes away. Texas will not take a package of crap, like DeSalvo, Britton, Humberto ‘Dirty’ Sanchez or Clippard for Mark Teixiera.
Teams with much deeper farm systems, such as the Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers or D-Backs have a much better shot at Big Tex. As a Bombers fan, would I like to see it? Yes. But its not happeneing, at least not via trade.
I agree with the Rowand stuff, but again, how do we know a guy like Rowand or Torii Hunter won’t turn into a Damon in the second year of his contract?
Eric Byrnes I love. I’ve followed that kid a long time, and I think he would have been a great addition to the OF a few years ago when we signed Damon. I would have preferred Byrnes– let’s see: Byrnes is making $2m a year over two years (signed extension last year), Damon is making $13M a year for 4 years. Who would you rather have? They are almost identical, except Byrnes traditionally has more pop than Damon, better arm, not as marketable. Anoither big thing is that Byrnes plays with heart, and is quite a character, if you’ve seen or heard him in interviews. Talked about Scott Spiezio’s pink ‘tickler’ on FOX with Jeanne and Kevin during playoffs last year!!! Wish they’d signed Byrnes for 2 years, then had plenty of money (and roster room) for a big timer this offseason (Jones, Ichiro, etc.)
I think they should make a run at Byrnes, a package of a young RP or SP and a INF (AA or above) could get it done, maybe toss in a mil? Jerry Colangelo is a whore for cash.
An OF of Melky, Byrnes, and Abreu, with Damon at 1B (after some practice time of course) and Matsui at DH (What was up with the un-needed wall collision in Fenway last weekend?!?!?!) would do wonders for the OF defense, assuming Abreu still isn’t scared of a wall.
And when Abreu leaves next year, and especially if power righty A-Rod leaves next year, they need Andruw Jones. At 29 years old, a 5-year/$100 M deal seems approapriate. And he is a DFens whiz. Then, you have Melky LF, Jones CF, Byrnes RF. Wow…
And the beat goes on…
The alternative is keeping Josh Phelps at first. I’d rather they make the roster move. The 40 man roster is not so filled with future Yankees that they can’t make a move.
Jeremy,
You aren’t going to try another stathead stat to sell that Minky isn’t good, are you?
“Easily replaceable”? Well, that stat went out the window last night with Phelps performance.
Here is my dilemma. Whom do I believe? Don Mattingly, who knows a thing or two about playing first base, who said that Doug is the best defensive first baseman they have had in “years” (his word), my eyes, or some Bill James-created stat that no team in baseball uses as a consensus to evaluate defensive play?
I think i’ll go with my eyes and Donnie Baseball on this one.
Randy,
At this point, if its between DeSalvo and Clemens, I pick Clemens. He’s never going to be completely healthy. His legs are always an issue but, he knows his own body.
Gotta go with Roger and hope for the best right now.
And if Melky doesn’t panout, and they need two OF, get Ichiro along with Andruw.
But I’m scared of Hunter’s injury history. He’s a lurking Damon…
Randy 1 –
It is a difficult decision. Of course, you want Clemens to be at his healthiest before he is activated. It would only add to the Yankees’ current woes if Clemens is not as close to 100% as he’s going to be, and then he misses a start here and there. The team needs stability and consistency, even if that is only 6 innings every 5 days.
But what will Cashman do? I think if DeSalvo had done a better job last night, it would be an easier decision. Perhaps if Clippard pitches well tonight, they wait on Clemens one additional turn. If Clippard tanks, there is going to be a huge temptation to activate Roger at less than optimum condition.
I’m not so sure Clemens would pitch hurt, though. Does he have a throw day or something so they can get an update on his condition?
And since they’re playing the Pirates, perhaps they can take a chance and give Igawa a start. But I don’t know how that plays into all the “paperwork” that has to go on with rosters, and options and all that stuff.
What will Cashman do? All along, he’s said Clemens knows himself better than anyone; so I’m thinking Clemens has to be perfectly honest, because if he says he’s ready to go, he’s going to pitch. But if he says something to the effect that it’s not that bad and he can pitch through it, I hope that Cashman will choose to wait an additional week. Because it doesn’t really hurt the team to wait one more week – it’s one more start, one possible win, versus, he pitches hurt and possibly hurts himself more and then, no more possible wins from Clemens.
Randy, “clemens will move heaven and earth to get ready.”
If that were the case, he’d have kept quiet and pitched last night, earning himself more money. Everyone knows Clemens lights greenbacks. But he could have kept quiet and started to get his paychecks rolling, but instead, he did the right thing and spoke up, costing himself some money (6 figures, and counting). He likes the money, but doesn’t need it. If he were to rush, it would be out of competitiveness and desire to help a team that needs him, more so than the money.
Plus, wasn’t the point that whatever this groin “fatigue” is, they were all encouraged by the MRI? I never heard anything about it being “tweaked.”
Doreen, I believe Clemens throws again either Weds. or thurs, which is when they’ll make their next evaluation.
Eric Byrnes is good for the highlight reel but he is not that good of a player and is unneeded.
his #’s are avg…..
the problem is the starters injuries and counting on pavano and Igawa as the 4th and 5 th starters.. The problems are that simple. Hughes getting hurt really hurts because he probably would be at least a 6 inning pitcher and him hurting his ankle and adding 2 months to his DL stint is devastating.
People who say the sox have more prospects are misinformed, the Yanks have many good prospects in there minors so I disagree and historically the Yanks minors have been underated and this trend continues…
the sox have like 3 guys on there roster from there minors it is a joke… david murphy, jacoby elsbury, etc. I will believe they will be good major leaguers when I see it and only then……..
My buddy Matt had this to say about the sad state of affairs…..well at least from your perspective!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUgrYECiGPw
I would consider Phillips an upgrade over Cairo.
I wouldn’t worry too much about having to drop people off the 40 man roster to bring up Phillips, or Basak, or anyone else. Even if you assume Pavano will go to the 60 day to open up a spot for Clemens – you still have Hughes and Karstens sitting on the 15 day disabled list. Since they went on that list on May 3 and April 29th, they are already 30 days in and certainly won’t be back before the first week of July.
Of course, that will leave a heck of a backup once everyone gets back.
“If he were to rush, it would be out of competitiveness and desire to help a team that needs him, more so than the money.”
yeah i agree totally there. it’s to help the team. but that’s my point . someone has to step in and override the good intentions of players like clemens, pettitte damnon, giambi etc who will play too hurt because they care so much about helping the team.
if clemens pitches too soon, he could break down for the year. this is exactly what happened to hughes. i’m not talking about nagging injuries. i’m talking about a series of injuries that come from trying to do too much too soon.
i’m surprised all of you are on board with clemens pitching in pittsburgh. i’m against it. i hope i’m wrong, and i hope you’re right. the clemens gamble is about the only card they have to play right now. i’d save it for 1 or 2 more starts so he’d be healthier. i worrry about him starting too soon and breaking down 3-4 starts into things.
Stuart,
Our farm system has been underrated? There have been barely any players to make the Bigs out of our farm system in the last 10 years. Only Robbie and Wanger are going to be decent pros on our club right now and about every prospect Cash has dealt over the last decade has failed and mostly failed miserably. Our farm system has been garbage for the last ten years.
You guys are way to caught up on stats. Yeah some of our minor leaguers are going to be good but you guys really think that we have 10-15 minor league pitchers who are going to be good and you honestly believe that. Pitching in A ball is a whole different world than pitching in the show. Some of them have good stuff and a few have power arms but that doesn’t translate into a quality big league pitcher. I am very sure 2 or 3 will work out but you guys are CRAZY if you think our farm system is going to be churning out pitchers like the Marlins did a few years ago. A lot of there pitchers like Beckett were top draft picks (he was #2).
Also Torre isn’t going to play Philips as a utility infielder unless it was his last option. The kid isn’t that good defensively and isn’t going to be playing back-up to anyone but 1B. Just b/c he is playing 2B in AAA doesn’t mean Torre is going to throw him out there when it matters.
Chris NY – The 2005 Yankees were 67-40 (.626) in the last 107 games….That clip would put us at 91 wins for 2007. The average win total for the AL Wild Card team since 1996 is 95, so we need to hope that the AL is more balanced this year, or competing teams under-perform, so that fewer wins will be required to win the Wild Card. Or, we have to play ile the ’61 Yankees for 107 games.
SJ44,
I understand the Angels won’t help the Yanks w/o getting something equal or greater in value but why doesn’t that logic revolve around Texas. Why would Anaheim not help us but Texas would? Texas can’t be telling there fans that they won’t be competitive next year and since Texiera is under contract wouldn’t that be helping us next year while hurting them unless they get some MLB ready players? That was really what I was trying to argue yesterday. I don’t think Texas is going to take a few kids from A ball for a franchise building block in Texiera. Throwing a guy like Proctor in the mix doesn’t really change that b/c I don’t think he can close. I don’t see a difference since I think Texas thinks they are about a year away from competing why they would make a deal to help us in the future.
Everyone else:
Texiera is not signing an extension before he comes here. Boras isn’t going to let him and there would be no incentive for him to do it anyways. Unless the Yankees offered to make him one of the 5 highest paid first baseman he is not signing an extension and even then I doubt he would b/c he could get more years on the open market even if that is from the Yanks. 1B usually get one big contract after their first deal is up like Giambi or Helton did. He is going to want to set himself up for life and isn’t going to take an extension now.
For those of you interested in baseball transaction terminology – you can find a useful link below. (DFA, Optioned, DL, etc)
“ESPN Baseball Transactions”:http://espn.go.com/mlb/s/transanctionsprimer.html
SJ44, I don’t think Baseball Prospectus is as easy to dismiss as you claim. BP’s stats do mean something. And BP is not ignored by the baseball world, as you seem to say. Is it really true that no one in baseball uses BP? The last edition was endorsed, I believe, by at least two GMs (including Billy Beane).
My question to you is, do fielding statistics matter? I want to know why Mientkiewicz gets so much acclaim for his fielding, but his ability does not show up in any defensive metrics.
We are in agreement that Phelps is not good.
Sj44,
I know you were saying its worth a chance but don’t you think that year left on his contract makes it much harder for them to give him away for a decent package than it would in the Beltran case b/c it was take the offer or get nothing. There was no next year in that scenario, which is telling your fans that you are now 2 years away from even thinking playoffs???
randy1:
Cash doesn’t have to go Roger’s word alone. Cash will have Clemen’s self-evaluation plus an MRI plus what Roger and the pitching coach think after Roger’s next side session (or throw day or whatever it is for Roger at this point) and that’s plenty of info with which to make the right decision.
Nick,
If they don’t deal him this year, they get nothing for him next year.
The problem Texas faces is, there aren’t a lot of places they can deal him. A lot of the major market teams either won’t trade their prospects or are set at first base.
Boston, New York (Mets), the White Sox, Anaheim (they aren’t trading him to a team in their own division), The Dodgers (Ned Colletti won’t trade prospects), Atlanta, the Cubs and Arizona (new ownership in those cities have salary limits via their sales agreements).
His market, per se, isn’t great. Its one of those things you have to wait out and see what develops. If you get close to the deadline, and the deal makes sense, you pull the trigger.
If not, you pass. IMO, there isn’t going to be this big bonanza for him because there aren’t that many teams that can afford him and even fewer that want to risk prospects for a player who may only be a year and a half rental.
Its why it bears watching to see what Texas does in the next 7 weeks.
Jeremy,
Two of 30 GM’s use the subscription publications statstical analysis. that’s less than 10% of the industry. That’s what you are basing your opinion on?
Minky’s rep for his defense is known throughout baseball. Because Baseball Perspectus may not believe it doesn’t make it untrue.
Geez, watch the games. The guy played great at first. Its not even a debate. Its laughable to try and make it one when one of the best first baseman of all time says the guy can play the position.
Nick:
“Why would Anaheim not help us but Texas would?”
Because Texas is not playing for a playoff spot.
Re: Teixeira
If Boras won’t agree to let Teixeira negotiate and sign an extension within say a 72 hour window of offering a deal to some other team this year, Yankees included, then I’d say there is no market for Teixeira this year.
I don’t see a team giving up a number of AAA prospects and/or MLB talent to “rent” Teixeira at $9 million (plus arbitration next year?) for 1.5 seasons if an extension is not going to happen. I’d say let Teixiera take the risk for the next 1.5 seasons. Maybe he gets hurt, maybe he goes into a slump in his walk year, maybe he’s photographed coming out of a hotel with a mule wearing a blond wig.
It’s in Teixeira’s interests to at least listen to an extension offer if there is a trade possible this year and Boras has to be reasonable. The Yanks pay well, but Teixeira has no right to command $20 million a year coming off a year where he’s making $9 million. He’s very good but IMO he’s not A-Rod and he does not have the number of years of consistent top performance to justify crazy money.
SJ44, so there is no way to quantify defense at first? I am not trying to bug you here, I consider you a lot more knowledgeable about baseball than I am, and I’m trying to figure something out that’s been bugging me ever since we signed Mientkiewicz.
Ok I’m just going to say one more thing on Hillenbrand, then I’ll shut up and let someone else suggest it on a newer comment page and get shot down by the resident experts.
Why would the Angels want to help the Yankees you ask.
1. The Angels own the Yankees, they give us the beatdown every time we play including knocking us out of the playoffs twice in the past 5 years and sweeping us badly last week.
2. They are down on Shea, so they probably wouldn’t even view it as helping us, even you say it would be a gamble for us.
3. Even if do think Shea will help us, they could believe the Yankees are dead no matter what, and Shea would not be a difference maker.
4. It would allow them to save face and reverse a bad off season signing and get $4.5M off their payroll.
5. No way they will exercise his option, now they can trade him and get something for him.
Judging from the above, I think the Angels have plenty of reason to trade him here. My money is on Cash making it happen, I for one welcome our new 1st baseman/overlord
(Sorry just thought about the word Pavago again, it’s funny because it combines Pavano and go!)
Nick B… The minors are better then 5 or 6 yrs ago when it was totatlly barren. They do not have 15 guys who will pitch in the big league, no team does. my point is they have made a real effort to imprvoe things in the minors the last 2 or 3 yrs and they apppear to be continuing the trend.
they traded unit, wright, and sheff for 8 prospects… 2 or 3 will play in the big leagues at some point in time…
they have been signing up high end latin youngsters also the last few years. these moves will pay off over the next few yrs… yes most of there top end prospects are in AA or lower but the mind set is hopefully changing to use younger guys..
cano, wang, Melky(will be a good player), are homegrown along with hughes(legit big time), clippard( legit back end of rotation), and others. they are younger then they were a few yrs ago and will continue to lose some of the crazy contracts over the next yr or 2.
in this offseason the Yanks big signing was Igawa at $4 mill a yr…..That was there big signing, cashman knew the end ways of operating are over.
they did not sign any big name free agents…………..
The Angels would help themselves by giving us Hillenbrand. He’s terrible!
I live in LA Hllebrand stinks and he would be another bad acqusition.. slow as molasses, can’t field, and old…Kindof like giambi and others…..
SJ:
On the same page with you. Small market for this guy this year, realistically speaking, versus rapid depreciation of his trade-able value to Texas. Tick, tock, a trade this year certainly makes sense for Texas. The Yankees’ need is now, but if they decide to pass due to Boras’ crazy extension pricing, Teixeira may not be as attractive to them after 2008 by which time, presumably, they may have already made other adjustments and acquisitions.
I do think the league thinks Teixeira is not yet elite, top dollar talent and thus Boras must (well, I take that back, it is Boras) be reasonable. Bottom line, if no extension is possible at some reasonable price, then there’s no trade this year with the Yankees.
I am confused why anyone would want Shea. He’s got a temper (see Toronto). If the Angels don’t want him, why would we? Do we need another player who’s struggling on this team?
Hillebrand is AVG .241, OBP .261, SLG .324, OPS .585
Phelps is AVG .277, OBP .347, SLG .400, OPS .747
Minky’s is AVG .226, OBP .292, SLG .379, OPS .671
no thanks.
My goodness, Hillenbrand is a worse hitter than Mientkiewicz and his defense is likely worse too. Why???
He stinks.
.230/2/18 is useless
Stuart, how would you know Shea can’t field? LA only started him at 1B three times all year. Did he make an errors? Did he throw away a potential dp ball? Did he almost get his SS captain killed on another throw? Does he miss every other ball that hits the ground before reaching him? I am 100% he would be an upgrade to Phelps defensively.
Randy, I’m not necessarily for Clemens pitching this Saturday, moreso assuming he will only do so if he’s healthy. Do we know that he won’t be 100%?
SJ-61*, so basically we have to play slightly better than the last 107 games in 2005, most likely (no gaurantee 91 wins won’t do it, but obviously we’d rather have 95). My point in bringing up ’05 was to show that .665 is possible…
Nick B, as far as the extension for Tex… murphydog already touched on it, but the reason/incentive for him to consider an extension is the same $$$ you’re talking about. I can only speak for myself, but I didn’t intend for that extension to be an extra year or two, but an overall good contract for him in years and money. Not an A-Rod contract, not a Soriano contract, but a good contract for 5 or 6 years and pretty good money. That takes care of him and gives us an all-star, gold-glove 1B for the next several years. Would we offer him enough to forego testing the market to make sure he’s getting top dollar? Who knows, I think yes. We need him and if you throw 15M or whatever in his face now instead of waiting till AFTER 2008, when the market may or may not be the same… which is more foolish, passing on gauranteed money or passing on FA in a year and a half?
Bird in hand…..
was just skimming through the posts, and saw why would the angels help the yankees, or why would the rangers help the yankees but not the angels?… teams arent necessarily helping other teams when they make a trade; when making trades, each team will make a move they feel best improve their ballclub’s short and long term goals, both on the field and off.
texas wouldnt be helping the yankees by trading him here, or they wouldnt trade teixiera to boston to hurt the yankees. Texas will make a move with Teixiera when they get the prospects/players they want in return they feel will best help the organization moving forward.
its not really choosing to help a team or not help a team.
Just say “no” to Shea.
Why would anyone want to add an under-performing malcontent like Shea Hillenbrand? About the only good thing you can say about the guy is that he’s played more games at first than Damon.
very good point TurnTwo…
I guess no one here has watched Cashman operate the past 2 yrs.
Like hes going to go out and trade valued pitching prospects for a FA to be. Stop smoking crack. It kills brain cells.
Cash will get creative and do something that wont involve any top pitching prospect.
The Angels would give Hillenbrand up for a bag of balls.
“The Angels would give Hillenbrand up for a bag of balls.”
I think Cash has that at his disposal. Seems like a small risk to get him. Best case, he gets back on track to his career averages (sorta like everyone says Abreu will) and he plays a fairly good 1B, then Phillips/Minky replace him in late innings. Worse case he plays DH or strengthens the bench.
Let’s see…..an old player, making too much money, not productive, limited (can’t field to save his life) talent.
Don’t the Yankees have too many players of this kind now?
Why would Cashman pick up Hillenbrand, who hasn’t hit a lick this year, and pay almost 3 million bucks (if he did the deal today) to do so?
It makes no sense and it won’t happen, IMO.
Cashman isn’t stupid and Hillenbrand would solve nothing for the Yankees.
Difference is he is Shea is on a short term contract, kinda like Craig Wilson last year, they gave him a shot, and he was terrible, so they let him go. He is definitely an upgrade to the bench and to Phelps. May as well take a gamble, most of the sure things Cashman has done over the years have backfired.
can you imagine if his “ship is sinking” antics took place in the yankee clubhouse? good lord.
i do think gibbons played a much bigger part in that fiasco than the jays would admit, however.
SJ,
Yeah it can go either way. I guess the main point is that they need a 1st baseman and I hope its for as little as possible but we’ll see what happens.
This team needs to start thinking about next year. They are only 3 moves away from competing again.
1) They need two outfielders. Don’t pick up Abreu’s option and parlay that into signing Ichiro for 3-4 years for 15-18 mil. Find a guy that can play centerfield: I don’t like Hunter but I guess he is about the only option unless someone will trade one. Platoon Melky in left or give the other two guys days off. I am guessing they only get one outfielder and Damon will be out there again.
2) If Damon can’t play first then they have to get a first baseman. Texiera I hope but anyone is better than what they have.
3) They need a #2 pitcher. Wang and Hughes can be a 1 and 3. Clippard can be a 5. Then you have Moose to plug into the 4 hole unfortunately. If Pettitte comes back then Clippard can work on his stuff in AAA. Then Pettitte’s a 3 and Hughes can be the 4 with Moose at 5. They need another guy for next year though.
4) They may have to just give away Giambi or Damon and pay their deals or make them both DH’s. Damon can’t play OF and Giambi can’t play 1st. Maybe Damon can play first but I’d much rather have Texiera if they can. Matsui would be a decent DH also. They basically have 3 players who are becoming full time DH’s like Frank Thomas, Mike Piazza, Thome, and Ortiz (thats not a good thing). Ichiro is better suited for RF so either Melky plays center or you sign somebody. I think Matsui would have some trade value both as a player and a ticket seller.
I would like to deal one of our young guys (say Chamberlain) and a good young prospect like J.B. Cox when he returns + maybe one or two other mid-level prospects for a decent young starting pitcher like Santana, Jer. Weaver, Haren, Willis (would take a bigger package). Signing 27 year old free agent pitchers is risky b/c a lot of pitchers hit the top of their peak around that time and you get them on the downslide of their career.
Last thing,
Why would you guys rather have Hillenbrand over Sweeney? Sweeney is a better player. Is only signed through this year for 11M (by time we get him it would be 7M). If you really want to make a run at the playoffs and do not think you can get Texiera why would you want Shea over Mike??? Neither is Texiera but one is clearly better than the other. Also don’t respond with stats b/c Shea gets a lot better pitches to hit than Sweeney does who is surrouned by AAA players.
Would you guys trade: Chamberlain, Kennedy, Cox, + Proctor for Dontrelle Willis??
rufus, if you think every single potentially good pitching prospect is untouchable, you’re the one smoking crack. He’s been stockpiling as much pitching as he can for 2 reasons:
1. We need good pitching.
2. Everyone else needs good pitching.
You think Matt DeSalvo is protected from a trade?
I’d love to know what you think we have to offer that Cashman can “get creative” with to bring back the kind of talent of a Mark Teixeira from a team who is desperate for pitching.
Nick, I wouldn’t. Too afraid Willis will flop in the AL to part with that much. Even if he doesn’t, you’re talking about 3 A prospects and a good major leaguer. With our luck, all 3 of those prospects pan out in the majors and Willis flops…….
Rufus:
I have watched Cash for a few years, certainly the last year and a half when he has had control. I’ve also watched other GMs.
One – not the only – but one reason you stockpile young pitching prospects is to have the necessary pieces for a trade that will help the team and still have some prospects left for yourself.
If we are talking about Teixeira, Cashman would not be giving up prospects to get another aging, declining superstar, free-agent-to-be. Teixeira is young and a good player, albeit with a slow start every season. The Yankees can afford to part with some prospects and/or a bullpen regular as well as negotiate a reasonable extension to buy out his first four or five free agent years. Thus, they avoid merely an expensive rental and take care of 1st base for years to come.
exactly, murphydog. And, it would be nice to catch one of these guys in their Prime instead of after it……….
The difference between Craig Wilson and Shea Hillenbrand is that Wilson made 1/3 rd the amount of money Hillenbrand is making and he was playing for a team outside the AL.
Contending teams, like the Angels, aren’t looking to deal with the Yankees.
Aside from that, he isn’t an upgrade. He’s just a guy.
We have enough of those guys on the team. If he wasn’t productive in Anaheim, hitting between Guererro and Matthews, what makes you think he is going to be productive here?
Andy Phillips is a better player than Josh Phelps and he won’t cost 3 million bucks to plug into first base right now.
I would be shocked if Cashman added Hillenbrand because it goes against everything he is trying to do with the team.
If he wants to spend 3-4 million dollars on a player, he can do a lot better than Shea Hillenbrand.
All he would be doing in that deal is helping the Angels, not helping the Yankees.
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