Game 61: Pirates at Yankees
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jun 10, 2007 
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I understand Nieves is a real good guy, and pitchers like throwing to him… But I just don’t feel confident at all in his hitting. There has to be someone out there that is available that can do a little of both… I saw that Humberto Cota just got cut by the Pirates a few days ago..
I really like Shawn Chacon. He came in and did a great job in ’05. He has a great story, being adopted and not knowing who is mom is. I wish him the best of luck…starting tomorrow.
Be interesting to see if Clippard can be more efficient with his pitching, meaning that he gets through 6 innings instead of 5 with 100+ pitches. Really fun watching these kids develop.
I think T-Clip is capable of throwing more than 100 pitches. Torre has to let him pitch beyond the fifth inning and show some confidence in him.
Hopefully, the offense scores early so that Toree feels comfortable leaving him there longer than 5 innings.
Kay telling a great story about Pena shaving his ‘stache cuz the team won 5 in a row.
On another note, yesterday Kay kept talking about Roger’s ‘Mr. Splitty’. It was just so wrong. lol.
Bobby!
Since when does Chacon throw 94mph…
Since Roger hit 92mph…
That was some running by Alex.
He is a real complete player.
Someone please remind me to fret about Brandon Webb right before Tuesday night’s game. . .
Talk about worthless. Why is Cairo playing?
Hey Mel I used that p2p website you gave us yesterday.. I was wondering if they broadcast NFL games on there too and how do they get around paying for the games
wow clip getting squeezed a little?
“I understand Nieves is a real good guy, and pitchers like throwing to him… But I just don’t feel confident at all in his hitting.”
he’s actually not as bad as his stats show. he almost always puts the ball in play(only three strikeouts). he has had success throwing out runners and seems to receive the ball well. with a little luck he should get up to .200.
i prefer having two good catchers myself just because of the demands of the position. that’s not going to happen this summer though.the yankees should also start putting nieves in at the end of games to lessen the innings jorge is piling up. every inning counts. resting posada more is definitley a problem that needs to be addressed.
Gerry Davis is an arrogant ass, and should have been fired or suspended for the Bloomquist play.
Clippard had Doumit and LaRoche struck out.
Just awful, awful, awful pitching. Rookie or not, you can’t pitch like this and expect to be given more opportunities.
Three run lead, leadoff hitter barely hitting .200, and he starts nibbling. He ends up walking the guy (something that has killed this entire pitching staff this year), and that begins a rally.
He has Castillo 0-2, shakes off Nieves twice, and throws an awful changeup in the middle of the plate and turns it into a game again.
This kid hasn’t been in the majors long enough to shake off catchers. If that’s what he wants to do, get him out of there and back to AAA.
That’s just unacceptable to pitch that way, shake off the catcher, and turn it into a game again.
This isn’t AAA and he isn’t Roger Clemens. Just do what Nieves wants and cut the crap.
Its why Torre has a short leash with him and rightly so.
If T-Clip does not do well in this game, Kei Igawa coming back to majors is a real possibility.
I hope it does not come to that as I really want the young guys to succeed. Torre and Cashman may not have the same patience as the team can not afford lose games at this time.
You’re an idiot. If you bothered to watch the game, you’d know he’d struck out three batters and gotten calls on none of them. Clippard lives on the corners. It’s Selig’s fault that umps as awful as Davis still have jobs.
Clippard is a hell of a lot better than Torre gives him credit for.
Bryan,
Check out the menu on the left side. I know they have NBA, so there will probably be NFL. Don’t know how they do it, but the feeds seem to be from Asia.
Go Yanks!
Please, stop crying about umpire calls. They are balls. If they aren’t called strikes, they aren’t strikes. Funny, nobody seems to complain when ball/strike calls go in favor of the Yankees.
You can’t pitch like he did in the second inning and expect any manager to have faith in you and its not because of the umpires.
Let’s get off all the “young guys have to play” kick. If you want to see an all-rookie team, watch Tampa Bay or the Marlins.
If you are going to play as a young player with the Yankees, you have to play the game the right way. That includes stop shaking off the catcher when you have neither the concept or the stuff to do so, and stop nibbling to .200 hitters with a 3 run lead.
Sounds harsh? Well, that’s the difference between playing for a team trying to make a playoff run and an “all-rookie” team with low expectations.
He keeps pitching like that, his next start will be in Scranton and not New York and I wouldn’t blame Torre in the least if that’s how it shakes out.
He definitely doesn’t have the good stuff today… he’s bouncing balls in the dirt all over the place. But I like what he does with his fastball guys…he’s always on the corners…and comes in for the kill pitch, or to set up the change. He only throws 88-89 here…gotta do what you can with what you got.
He’s got emotion and confidence out there, which is nice to see every once in a while. Igawa, no thanks… maybe as a lefty reliever..
Case in point — 50 pitches/first 2 innings vs 14 pitches/3rd inning.
Whether T-Clip can go over 100 pitches is not the issue, and neither is whether the umpires are accurate.
Major league pitches have to get through innings efficiently by challenging batters and also have to adjust to the umpires. This isn’t Paris Hilton Land — “Its not Fair! Mom!” — gotta deal with what you got, and T-Clip pussyfooted around the first two innings. Hopefully he stays with what he just did.
My hope for Clippard? A National League team likes what they see and the Yankees are able to package him for additional help in the bullpen or at first base.
He is the perfect NL pitcher. A nibbler, not overpowering, too much in love with his changeup to be effective in the AL.
He could succeed in the NL with that type of stuff because he is facing easier lineups and teams. In the AL, he will get his lunch handed to him.
The Yankees have 6 younger pitchers who have better stuff, and higher ceilings, than Clippard. Jeff Marquez, Ian Kennedy, Alan Horne and Brett Smith in Trenton and Joba Chamberlain in Tampa.
I am not including Hughes because he is hurt right now.
Clippard is the kind of pitcher you package to upgrade your team. Not to install in the rotation, if you they are 100% healthy.
i have to agree with you SJ, i just dont see clipppard as a yankee long term, not with the young arms in the minors, hopefully he could be packaged for someone this july
Well in fairness to Clippard, he was pretty far down on the emergency starter list and has not exactly been a dog so far. Not including this game, he’s had a 3.60 ERA in 4 games. His problem is obviously his lack of innings per start (5 per start) but Torre’s hook on him has been one of the most debatable managing strategies of the season.
Clippard wasn’t supposed to be part of the plan this year and I don’t think it’s fair to jump on him for a 2 run inning in which he got two bad calls. He is fine for what he is, filler.
Brian and Mel, what is this website you have been talking about? You can watch games from it?
How can you question Torre for pulling him too early when he doesn’t show the ability to throw consistent strikes? He’s always near 100 pitches by the 5th inning. Its not Torre’s fault he isn’t economical with his pitches.
Agreed, he is in the majors earlier than projected. From the Yankees perspective, that’s a good thing if he puts up decent numbers and that convinces a team he can help them.
Over the long term, he isn’t a rotation staple for the Yankees. For another team, especially in the NL? Absolutely. I think he can be an effective NL pitcher.
Ian Kennedy making his second AA start today. After 4, he is winning 2-0.
His numbers: 4 innings, 3 hits, 0 runs, 2 BB, 5 K’s.
You watch kids like Kennedy, Chamberlain and Marquez, for example, and you will see they have much higher ceilings than Clippard. They all throw harder, walk fewer people and, truth be told, seem to trust their stuff more.
Tyler is inflicted with the disease that kills the Yankee bullpen. Too many walks and bad counts. That doesn’t insure a long term future in the AL. At least not for a playoff contending team.
myp2p.eu
What’s the excuse this inning? This kid can’t throw the ball over the plate with any level of consistency and he is too much in love with a very average changeup.
Stop crying about calls, stop nibbling, and pitch.
Another 3 run lead given to him and he can’t get outs.
I know it sounds harsh but, this isn’t AAA. This is the majors.
He is playing a bad NL team and can’t pitch.
They should have pulled after his latest walk and went to Henn to pitch to Duffy.
They went too long with him and it was the wrong decision.
This kid isn’t anybody’s “answer”. At this point, he isn’t even filler.
If faced any of the good AL teams, he would have given up 10 runs already today.
If you can’t throw strikes, you don’t last long.
Now, he is just embarrassing himself.
A putrid performance. Hopefully, he is back in Scranton on Tuesday. He’s not ready to pitch at this level.
this umpire must be blind
Where you at Phil Franchise? We miss you!
As usual I agree with your trade analysis, he could be a good bargaining chip. And of course Clippard sucks today. But that can happen to any pitcher who relies on control and doesn’t have it on a given day.
He isn’t a star in the making, or he would have been in the rotation before Rasner, Karstens, Hughes, Wright, or DeSalvo. But he’s only 22 and not a non-prospect like DeSalvo. With some refinement he could be a back-end starter for the Yankees.
His performances so far (today excluded – he didn’t have it) have reminded of Rasner. He doesn’t look dominant, but after five innings and 80 pitches you realize he’s on the verge of a quality start. Like I said, pulling him at that point is debatable. A lot of commenters on a lot of blogs have questioned Torre for pulling Clippard (and Rasner) in such situations, and sometimes it’s a good move and sometimes it isn’t. Moot point today, of course.
If, knock on wood, we get a healthy and effective season from Wang, Pettitte, Clemens, and Mussina, we will have some wiggle room with our fifth starter. If Clippard can’t get it together, we’ll find someone else. I wonder what are the chances that Hughes will fill that role toward the end of the season.
SJ- I think youre being a little critical. He was consistently keep his pitches perfectly on the corners and was not getting the calls. He only throws 89 so he has to hit the corners. If he doesnt locate perfectly, he is hittable. He was for the most part locating perfectly but just got hosed pitch after pitch
Phil Franchise is on the 60 day DL. What a shame
Alright, time to start shopping for a 5th starter.
T-Clip just proved what SJ44 and I have been saying. Nibble, nibble, off to Scranton. . . .
Clippard was squeezed big time. this ump is blind. Same guy that missed the Bloomquist call at 2nd. The Yankees should file a grievance with the league with this guy. He has already cost the yankees one game, now cost them the lead in a 2nd game.
It wouldn’t break my heart of Clippard returned to AAA, but who would replace him?
U think clippard nibbled? Most walks were off 8 or 10 pitch at bats. How many straight strikes should he throw?
You gotta stop crying about calls. If you aren’t around the plate consistently, you aren’t going to get calls.
He wasn’t getting hosed. Every pitcher gets squeezed on calls during games.
Today was no different than usual.
I am sure the Pirates weren’t all that happy with the strike zone Roger got yesterday. That’s baseball.
You can’t pitch like he does, and expect to be successful.
This was a soft landing team he faced today and he was awful. No excuses, no, “its the umpires fault” or any of that nonsense.
He can’t throw the ball over the plate. He always in bad counts and walks too many hitters. Mainly, its because his windup is all over the place.
My suggestion. With the off day, skip him in the rotation this week and monitor what Igawa, Marquez and Kennedy are doing. Whomever is pitching better among the 3, gets the next start when a #5 guy is needed.
This kid is not an AL pitcher. He plays against better lineups, especially now that advance scouts have some book on him, he will get eaten alive.
Much like he did today. That ends up hurting his trade value, the only real value he has (long term) for the Yankees.
SJ I seldom agree with you, but I do this time. We was called up earlier, but his stuff would be better served against weaker line-ups.
Let´s face it, there is not enough room on a roster to have all the young studs play, if he can be used as a trading chip, he could be considered expendable.
Though I’d rather explore trading DeSalvo first.
Know what guys, you may be 100% right about the umpires stinking, etc, but other major league pitchers have to deal with them too. Part of the game and T-Clip just doesn’t look like he’s got game. Sorry to say. Very grateful for the 3 wins, especially against the Mets, and don’t have many choices right now, but the (22 year old, not his fault) boy just isn’t ready.
I mostly agree with sj44. I am not quite ready to throw clippard under the bus. but I do think he is going down. I know that the yankees do not need a fifth starter in the next turn, and I am not sure about the turn after that. They do need a position player for their foray into the NL parks. you cant go with 13 pitchers with the pinch hitting that is necessary.
Now I am all for going with kids and developing them if you do not have a team that you feel can contend for the playoffs, and the yankees can. The shame of it is that Igawa has flopped so far, and the large number of pitching injuries this year throughout the organization, have forced the yankees to bring up Clippard who obviously isnt ready, and I am not sure if he will ever be a starter. he in my eyes projects at best as a 3 or 4 starter.
I say send clippard down and bring back igawa when a fifth starter is needed. and hope hughes heals fast.
\
It’s about time they gave Henn another shot. He got thrown down to AAA for Villone (huge mistake)
I agree that Clippard was being squeezed today, but then again once there is enough video of him circulating at MLB, it might be tough for him to survive.
If Igawa has fixed his mechanics and could throw changeups for strikes, he is not a bad pitcher. He actually has enough stuff to consistently strike out 6 or 7 batters per game. But I haven’t seen his AAA games, so I’m really not in a position to comment.
Well, thank goodness we’re playing the pirates and chacon… so we can still win this.
SJ, what game are you watching. Clippard was ahead on every count…(just could not put the hitter away). Pitching ahead in the count is “bad pitching” ? He is miles better than Desalvo, etc. Desalvo (and Igawa) are masters of the 4 pitch walk. At least Clippard battles.
Man, we really need Jermaine Dye on this team…
So if Clippard gets set down, that would bring the Yankees’ list of injured/rejected pitchers to 7 (Igawa, Rasner, Karstens, Hughes, White, DeSalvo, Clippard – assuming I didn’t forget anyone). Unbelievable!
I guess it’s not too hard to believe that guys like Marquez and Kennedy could get a shot, considering that Wright had just broken into AA when he got his callup. Then again, look what happened to Wright.
Bobby Mercer quote of the day: “I’m an offensive guy.”
I’ve got a good feeling about this game, despite Clippard. Maybe because we’re facing the Pirate pen now. Who is Josh Sharpless?
“At least Clippard battles.”
Yes, he does battle. But he lost the battle more often than he won it today unfortunately.
Geez, we sound like Red Sox fans now, complaining about calls.
The kid is in bad counts every inning. He can’t hold leads. That’s not on the umpire. That’s on HIM>
He isn’t that good. I know, I know, he’s “young”, the word we throw around when guys under 30 pitch like that.
Young, old, in between, he isn’t an AL pitcher in a playoff-type teams rotation. He is a lefthanded Igawa or, if you want to compare him to another guy, a Jae Sao.
That’s all he is. Look at some of the other “young” Yankees starters in the minors and you will see better pitchers than Clippard. They just lack innings. When they get the innings, they will easily surpass him on the depth chart.
It’s hard to read some of these comments — if you are going to grow young pitching, you have to be ready for struggles. Clippard is 22 — this comes with the territory. Not everyone comes in immediately and has a sub 3 ERA.
AROD WITH ThE CLUTCH BLAST!
An A-Bomb
“he is a lefthanded Igawa” Really? So he is a lefthandedIgawa that throws righthanded?
Pffffft pathetic non-clutch(4th inning) home run by A-Rod.
What a stat padder.
All that praying Sharpless did into his hat didn’t help him against ARod.
Alex is the man!
I agree that Clippard is a valuable trading piece. But he’s a lot better than anything else that we have right now and we need a 5th starter. I think they hold onto him until hughes gets back, then move him to the pen. His herky jerky throwing motion might do well there.
I think the Yankees have 3 options when the 5th starter’s turn comes around again, should they decide to send Clippard down.
First off, they don’t need a 5th starter this week because of the off day. I have no doubt he will get skipped.
If Igawa pitches like he did the other night, he will most likely be the first option. If he struggles, they can monitor what Kennedy and Marquez are doing and pick one of them.
Let’s not put DeSalvo in the conversation. He has never been a prospect, isn’t one now and was an emergency option only. He has no trade value.
Clippard is a young kid, poorly suited to the AL, who can be an effective back of the rotation guy for a NL team.
Ironically, the scouting report on him since last year.
The Yankees have better options among their young pitchers for the future.
The present? My gut tells me Igawa II may be coming up soon.
A-ROD has 61 RBI’s in 61 games. 25 left until the All-Star break, if he holds pace he’d be at 86.
No idea how Hack Wilson ripped 191.
Wow, the Mets are getting KILLED by the Tigers. 10-3 right now..
Tigers are shaping up to be a formidable team. We’re going to be battling some AL Central teams for the WC spot.
Boras types in a new $$$ amount into A-Rods deal with every home run. The Yanks are going to have to pay HUGE $$ to keep him….
Nothing against young pitchers. Young pitchers who can’t throw strikes? The Yankees don’t have the time to waste on them.
Today is a day that guys like Clippard and Henn can show the manager they can be counted on. So far, neither guys distinguishes themselves because they can’t throw consistent strikes.
If they can’t do it against the Pirates, you are going have a hard time convincing people they can do it against better teams.
Too many walks, too many bad counts. Its a recurring theme.
can someone please tell me why chris britton isnt on this team and sean henn is?
HE should be in this game not henn!!
i cant take these terrible decisions
my kingdom for a pitcher…
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.
Why Cashman chose to bring up Henn and leave Vizcaino and Farnsworth in this pen while leaving Chris Britton in the minors is lewd, unethical, preposterous!
Damn you Cashmoney, damn you.
Sj,
I think they have to bring up Igawa. Do I think he’ll succeed, NO. I think they have to take the Hughes route with these young guys. We are seeing first hand that they aren’t ready for the majors. They are afraid to trust there stuff and if you don’t have confidence in your stuff you are going to try and hit the corners.
Hughes had faith in his stuff and he looked good in his last start. I think that is because he had a lot of time to develop it and also to gain trust in throwing it over the plate. Kennedy won’t be ready for this. I don’t know if Igawa will or not but I think he has to go out there and perform or he is useless. He isn’t going to get any more seasoning in the minors.
As for the prior thread. Giambi will come back from this injury ready to go. He always plays best when he has something to prove and I see him coming back on a tear. I think Damon will be able to cover more ground when he is back in center b/c his legs will be completely healthy by then. Also you never know what can happen. Somebody else could get injured in the OF and Melky may need to play for them. I wouldn’t worry about that until the time comes. Things have a way of working themselves out.
Henn can eve throw strikes. I guess we are seeing why they sent him to AAA. Talk about nibbling
What the hell are these young pitchers doing.
You have a lead. Pitch strikes.
this is *not* pretty.
Yay, lets walk the bases loaded
The “Old” are killing the team as well – thats why the young ones are there -
whew – big out.
We know why they sent him down now
yay… new pitcher please.
thank you for not putting in Vizcaino
Nick…
Damon in CF is hopefully a memory……Melky should be the CF the rest of the way….
Henn just took the Farns route. Load up the bases and then get out of it. Those situations take years off my life
The real Farnsworthless route is load the bases and bring Mariano in to get out of it
I don’t know why the Yankees didn’t even at least take a shot at Troy Percival…Cardinals signed him on next to nothing to a minor league deal.
Wouldn’t have hurt, and certainly a veteran presence would have been good for the bullpen.
Years off my life as well – however – shows he can work himself out of it. I say give him another inning before they hurt themselves with Vizcaino
Bx 12,
I like Melky in center a lot. I am saying I don’t think Torre will sit Damon or Giambi if both are healthy. I think Melky has a shot to be a legitimately good CF for years to come. He doesn’t have the consistant game it takes to be great but he has the tools to develop a great game. Hopefully he has the work ethic to get it done, I have seen a lot of kids who have the potential but never get any better.
a used box of crayons for nieves.
anyone?
anyone?
Nick- It just shows he doesnt have place here. He was a pitch away from a loss. You cant have that with a reliever. Its not like he is a 5th starter. He cant constantly walk the world and expect to get out of it every time
Melky needs to hit the weight room hard this offseason. Get rid of that pudge, build a little more power.
I could see him as a 18-23 HR ~85-95 RBI guy if he does that.
Needs to rip off that baby fat first though. Get a little tougher.
There is no way ARod opts out of this contract. They will get an extension done in the week b/w filing for free agency and the end of the season. Cash won’t give up that 7-8 million Texas is paying for his contract. Boras wants to get paid but I think he knows he loses a serious bargaining chip by opting out. The Yanks losing that 7-8 mil from Texas basically tells the market they aren’t bidders.
He’ll sign a 4yr/112 million extension.
correct – he was a pitch away. They had him as a starter before he came up, when he was up before he was a reliever, they keep bouncing him – they need to make up their mind so he can focus on what they want.
Why are Vizcaino and Farnsworth here and not Britton? Simple answer, $9.2 million dollars. The salaries of Vizcaino and Farnsworth.
Do you honestly think the Yankees are going to eat that money for a minor league kid who, despite him being the blog’s newest “hero of the week”, there is no tangible evidence he can pitch better in bigger situations?
Not the way it works, nor should it. Vizcaino has been pitching a little better lately.
The Yankees aren’t Tampa Bay. Its not going to be an “all young” pitching staff because “young” is not necessarily “better”. As we have seen today.
Ideally, if Hughes can make it back in a month, problem solved. Until then, I think there will be different options, other than Clippard, in the #5 spot.
The 60 Day DL is retroactive from the time of his injury, May 7, not from when he was put on the list, which was yesterday.
That means, he is eligible to come off the list, July 7, not August 9, as Kay reported. Unfortunately, our lead PBP TV announcer doesn’t know the DL rules.
Nick,
I agree. Igawa has to get the next shot IF he continues to pitch well. But, I would monitor Ian Kennedy closely the next month.
Kennedy after 6 today: 3 hits, 0 runs, 2 BB, 8 K’s. He leads 3-0. Has retired 7 in a row and 9 of the last 10.
They are playing in Reading and that ballpark is usually a launching pad during day games. Impressive second start in AA.
If he continues to pitch like this, and his arm feels good, I’d be REAL tempted to give him a shot. He is the same age as Clippard and is a better pitcher, even though he has less professional experience.
“a used box of crayons for nieves.
anyone?
anyone?”
What colors? Lemme see if I have em first. I’ll need to think about it….
lol (Wolf in Pinstripes)
SJ,
Don’t get in the war over Britton. It goes nowhere. I’ve tried, trust me.
As for Kennedy, I think he is great but I don’t think throwing him in the fire unless you know that he will throw his stuff and trust it. Clippard doesn’t have bad stuff, he just is scared to pull a Chase Wright. He nibbled on the corners b/c he doesn’t trust that they won’t hit it out. If you know he’ll throw strikes and not try to paint the corners then he should get called up eventually but not until then.
Also I think you have to be reasonably certain these kids will succeed when you bring them up. Bringing them up and letting them get shelled isn’t good for them. It’s one thing to wet their beaks during ST but throwing them into nationally televised games like they did with Clippard can destroy a kid if he doesn’t succeed. Clip looked like he trusted his stuff in the past couple starts, maybe he didn’t have it today and he knew it.
“Why are Vizcaino and Farnsworth here and not Britton? Simple answer, $9.2 million dollars. The salaries of Vizcaino and Farnsworth.
Do you honestly think the Yankees are going to eat that money for a minor league kid who, despite him being the blog’s newest “hero of the week�, there is no tangible evidence he can pitch better in bigger situations?
Not the way it works, nor should it. Vizcaino has been pitching a little better lately.”
Minor league kid? Chris Britton is 24 and huge. He’s got power and control. Last year he pitched in the AL EAST. What did he have to show for it? 3.35 ERA in the AL East. That 1 year is already better than what Vizcaino or Farnsworth have ever done in the AL.
Chris Britton is clearly just better than Vizcaino. How anyone can defend Vizcaino is incredible. The guy has done everything in the BOOK to get demoted and yet he is here and Chris Britton is in the minors dominating. BTW Britton had a 1.80 ERA and a WHIP of .40 in 5 IP in his short stint.
Vizcaino is lucky because of his salary and more importantly his contract options. The Yankees probably can’t send him down in the minors without his permission or he would be DFA’d.
That’s the only thing saving him.
Oh and if money talked so much then why is Kei Igawa(10 mil per) in the minors? The Yankees can afford to cut ties with Viz and bring up the cheaper and all around better Britton. I don’t know what they are waiting for.
Speaking of, here comes Vizcaino!
I think they are going to be careful with Kennedy — the guy was just in double A. I’d rather they go with Igawa for a month then rush him – what they did to Chase Wright was pretty rough. I realize Kennedy is a bit different, being a college pitcher and all, but still…
Oh, and for all the crap Cashman is getting here, props to him on Kenndedy — that pick was lambasted last year and he wasn’t even one of our most highly ranked prospects coming into this year.
After getting out of a bases loaded situation, Henn came back in and held up almost 2 1/2 innings. Not bad first time out since coming back up
You guys are crazy about stats, here is one. 29 baserunners in 20 innings. That means 9 of the 20 innings he had at least runners on 1st and 2nd on average in AAA.
Kennedy is extremely promising, but I’d hate to rush him in and have it backfire. The guy just got promoted from A ball recently.
As far as Clippard goes, it was a crummy outing for him today, but I wouldn’t get too down on him. He _is_ still young and inexperienced and I think he’s done a hell of a job so far since he’s been called up, all things considered.
Vizcaino should feel at home playing an NL Team. Quck warm up the Farns too.
“No runs, no hits, no errors.”
That _was_ just Vizcaino pitching, wasn’t it? LOL
Henn was not good. He was lucky. Big difference.
Do you guys really think that Torre doesn’t want the best players on this team? Just as an example, do you really think he would hesitate to put Kennedy on this team if it gave the team a much better chance than Moose to win a title. No way, he would have Kennedy on this team. It has nothing to do with options ecspecially with relievers. He wants the best 7-8 relievers on this team, no matter who it is. If a player is good enough to be up here, he certainly isn’t going to be riding the bus from game to game. Does this not make sense? Torre obviously doesn’t care that much about Villone since he didn’t put him on the 25 man roster to start the season. If Britton was better, Torre wouldn’t lose sleep over losing Villone.
What now? Proctor for two innings and Mo?
“You guys are crazy about stats, here is one. 29 baserunners in 20 innings. That means 9 of the 20 innings he had at least runners on 1st and 2nd on average in AAA.”
Nick B-
Fair point but heres Viz numbers. 51 Baserunners in 30 innings. 23 Walks and 18 K’s.
Britton? 26 K 8 BB. In those 5 innings he pitched with us this year. 1 hit.
Farns probably isn’t available. Torre doesn’t like to throw him everyday. Probably, Bruney or Villone then Proctor then Mo.
Good thing the Yankees have the day off tomorrow AND Wang pitches Tuesday.
should I hate Cashman or Sheffield more?
The trade of the century for the Tigers.
I promised myself I was no longer arguing about this.
One more time, A-rod!!!
I think Abreu’s turnaround is a big part of the team’s turnaround
Quincy,
Looks pretty bad doesn’t it. Sanchez will have to be pretty good ecspecially if Sheff wins a WS ring with the Tigers this year.
A-ROD *UNREAL*
Henn Lucky? Must have been a different channel I was watching. He didn’t fall apart when he came back the next inning
Maybe ARod wants to go play in the NL Central, I think he likes playing the Pirates.
Chris Britton is not better than Vizcaino.
Again, be careful about using stats. You have to apply some context to them or they are meaningless. Britton didn’t pitch 7th and 8th innings for the Orioles last year. He pitched in softer situations.
Comparing relief pitchers is an apples to oranges argument unless you compare their work in similar situations.
A team DESPERATE for relief, like the Orioles, felt he was expendable. For Jared Wright, no less. They signed two older pitchers, Jamie Walker and Danz Baez and paid big money to do so, because they felt they were better late inning options than Britton.
If Britton was so easily the better candidate, why would the Orioles waste over 10 million dollars on older options?
Britton is ok. He isn’t better than the options they have. It would be helpful if he lost some weight. It would help his stamina and his health.
Joba Chamberlain lost 60 pounds from last year at this time to now and he is throwing almost 100 MPH, without any of the arm and stamina issues he had at Nebraska. Britton would be wise to do the same.
Vizcaino has pitched better than Britton in his career and you give a guy like that every opportunity to find it.
There is a big difference between pitching in softer situations out of the bullpen and pitching 7th and especially 8th innings in close games. Experience does count.
The problem with the Yankees bullpen is, all of the “young” guys, when given the opportunity to move up on the pecking order, simply can’t get the job done.
Proctor and Bruney can’t pitch 8th innings effectively because neither throws enough strikes. They aren’t going to give that role to Britton because he isn’t ready to assume that role.
Its why they are going to do whatever it takes, at least until the deadline, to give Farnsworth and Vizcaino every chance to get it going.
It would be great if Proctor or Bruney could be counted on to be a lights out 8th inning guy. If they could, perhaps you could slide Britton into a role in the ‘pen.
Since neither guy has gotten the job done when given those chances, it squeezes Britton out for right now.
12-Wang 13-Moose 14-Pettitte 15-Clemens 16-???? 17-Wang 18- Moose
Don’t we need a 5th starter this week. The day off doesn’t help since Clip pitched today it doesn’t give anyone that rest to skip anyone’s turn, does it? I could be wrong here but I think we still need a 5th this week.
I think it is a bit early to judge the trade.. If Sanchez and Whelan are contributing in 3 years and Sheffield is retired, it will look a lot different. Funny thing is, Sheffield was poor the first month too, and would have just slumped with the rest of our team in April
We have the same argument day after day. Britton is most likely not gonna be a shutdown guy. But with the crap we have now, he should at least get a chance.
And i love how we throw Clippard to the wolves after one poor start.
Mo,
It wasn’t that he pitched bad it was that he was scared to throw it over the plate. Their is a big difference in throwing your stuff and getting hit and just being flat out scared to throw strikes or trust your stuff. That was the difference b/w DeSalvo and Clip until today.
Personally, I think he knew his stuff wasn’t sharp and didn’t know what to do. A veteran pitcher can get by with out great stuff every now and then but Clip doesn’t have the experience to do so. I think he’ll be fine. Won’t hurt for him to go back down and regain confidence, but I would give him one more shot up here.
Clippard is a 22 year old…And his inconsistant performances are in line of what one would expect…I agree he would improver quicker in the NL…But it really is a matter of maturity and confidence…He’ll tease with good outings and come up with today’s performance….He really should be in AAA as many of us understand….Overall for a # 5 he’s not that bad….All you hope for from the # 5 slot is a record that registers a plus 3…something like a 10-7 would be considered outstanding….
Todd,
You are exactly right but in this day and age everything gets judged right now. Even if Sanchez and Whelen succeed we won’t look back at it as “man i’m glad we traded sheff” b/c it will be so long in between. Those guys will probably be good but its hard to ever evaluate this trade fairly b/c both teams got what they wanted. The Tigers wanted a player for a year or two and we wanted something that might help later. Both teams won
crazy how arod performs when abreu is on base
Nieves has no place on an ML roster, he is making me wish we still had Sal “two slices, extra cheese” Fasano back.
Talk about production in the middle of the lineup. The Yankees No. 3/4/5 hitters are 7 for 8, with 4 walks, 9RBIs, 8Rs, 0Ks, 0LOB, and 16 total bases.
That’s just crazy.
I know I’m late but Alex is a beast.
8RBIs***
Did it seem like Posada got more days off last year? It’s hard to remember specific things like that but it seemed like he did. If that’s the case I think he will have a tough time producing in Aug/Sept. He also got a lot of days off after the Boston Massacre, this year it’s going to be a fight to the end. I hope having Nieves doesn’t come back to bite us when we need Posada during the stretch run and in October.
Kennedy went 6 today and put up zeroes. Trenton leads 4-0 in the 9th.
Kennedy’s numbers have been awesome this year. Overall, he is 8-1, 1.75 ERA, hitters only hitting .188 against him this year.
25 walks and 86 K’s in 74 innings.
I agree it may be too early for him to get a shot this year.
However, if he keeps pitching like this, he’s gonna have a shot at the rotation in 2008.
He and Chamberlain are the real deal. When you guys get the chance to see both those kids pitch, its a whole different level from the Tyler Clippard’s of the world.
Tyler is a nice NL-type pitchers. These other two kids are horses. Add them to Hughes and Wang and you have the makings of a dominant pitching staff in the next several years.
Its also why I believe Humberto Sanchez future is in the bullpen. Which, could really make his career, IMO.
Proctor for the 8th? I’d go that way with the day off tomorrow. Not many pitches that inning.
LC, loser.
Yes, Nick, lucky. When you keep walking guys and . . oh never mind. `
I think with a 10-6 lead and a day off you could bring in Villone or let Myers pitch an inning. If they fail you could bring Mo in the 9th to finish it off.
Given our farm, I think Clippard would be nice trade bait over the winter. The time he has up here, even if it is mediocre, is going to make him more valuable too. He’s only 22 — he could be an average, inexpensive pitcher for someone.
i have to say that, for the first time since i’ve been reading the comments on here, SJ44 is way, WAY off.
Clippard’s got guts. He can pitch. He has to take his lumps. In 1995 (when we made the playoffs, i may add), there were two rookies named Rivera and Pettitte who had a few off-starts. Thank god we never told them they weren’t ready.
We’re still 10.5 games back, and I’d still rather know what I’ve got out of my youngsters than go for absolute broke in order for a slim chance of making the playoffs. The Yankee Clippard will, and should, be back in five days time.
We can’t just ship guys back to AAA every time they have a bad appearance.
SJ – really well-said
Britton could be a nice option out in the pen at some point.
Henn has better stuff. He has to attack the zone in a big way and stop nibbling
Vizcaino is throwing the ball better lately. Just off the YES gun readings, he’s back around 92, 93 on the FB with sink. He has something like 70+ appearances in 5 straight years, and was a key guy for Guillen in the White Sox pen in 2005. That is a track record you have to respect – until you’re convinced he’s on fumes and is done
On Kennedy – I listened a little to the game. He was blowing a high FB past Randy Ruiz – a good minor-league FB hitter.
He’s also pitched for Team USA internationally. He might be more ready mentally than the average 22-year-old. All reports say that he’s sitting 89-92 on the FB – back where he was when he was a potential #1 pick his sophomore year at USC.
SJ44, I wouldn’t use the Orioles’ decision to trade Britton for Jaret Wright as evidence that Britton isn’t a decent big-league reliever. The Orioles have been making terrible pitching moves for years (e.g., John Maine and Jorge Julio for Kris Benson).
I agree that some of the praise for Britton is overblown, but we have to see what we’ve got in him. He has nothing to learn in the minors. If he hasn’t earned the right to pitch the 8th for the Yankees, then he shouldn’t be faced with the catch-22 of never being given the chance to prove himself, and never being used in any other situation.
Myers and Villone are taking up space in the pen right now and Britton would be more help to us. Sure, he may not turn out to be good enough to be a setup man, but it seems like a safe bet he could be a reliable middle innings guy. Bottom line, keeping him in the minors doesn’t help him or the team.
On a related note, the Pirates’ pen is a horror show. I have never seen anything like it.
DKA,
He has to throw his stuff and not try to hit the black every single pitch. That is why pitchers go threw the minor league systems. They face hitters who aren’t as good and they get to work on throwing there pitches for strikes. You don’t see successful major league pitchers try and paint the black with every single pitch. Clippard will be fine, but he has to throw his pitches and not try to paint the corners.
will the thrill
Any chance that the Cubs will clean house? I bet Derek Lee would look great in Pinstripes. I know it’s a long shot but maybe Clippard and Proctor bring a defensively gifted right handed first baseman?
Baseball is a funny game. Nieves has so many hard-hit balls that go for outs, and today he picks up an RBI off one of the most awkward hits of the season.
To add to what SJ is saying – you can’t forget about Marquez and Horne, either
Both guys have big time sinking fastballs and severe groundball tendencies
Ohlendorf could be another factor – all 3 of these guys have better pure stuff than Clippard.
Chamberlain has #1-potential stuff… Kennedy has better stuff, and superior command
Another note:
Wil Nieves with an RBI single – good swing
His mom is at the ballpark today – in town for the Puerto Rico Day parade. Seems like a great guy…
YankeeBoy – 9 days off is almost like being on the DL and coming back – so it was a pretty good showing
kd,
Not even 1% chance. They are trying to sell the team and would not get very many bidders if they had a major league team that was gutted and had no chance to win. They just spent 300M this offseason, I don’t think they will sell off anything but maybe Zambrano.
That’s it. Trade Posada, we got Nieves.
Life could be worse guys. We could have to watch a bullpen like this everyday.
Walk Abreu, I want to see ARod up with the bases loaded.
Maybe Teixera in the offseason if Texas is convinced he will leave? I realize the price will be very high — but it is fun to think about
Glad Cash didn’t pull the trigger on any Dye-Abreu talks
Nick -
It’s hard to choose between Abreu and ARod right now
Both are on fire
(and that may not be a coincidence)
OK. Now use Villone or whoever else you want
A-Rod never hits with runners on
Scooter,
You’re right. Think of how hot Arod was in April, I think that had a lot to do with Abreu hitting well and taking pitches in front of him and getting on base. Think of when ARod went in his mini-slump, it was when Abreu wasn’t hitting or the guy in front of him wasn’t hitting. Now Abreu is hitting well and ARod is once again on fire. You’re right I don’t think its a coincidence.
Clippard is NOT READY. In his prime he will be a BRAD RADKE type pitcher. He just needs more seasoning at AAA. He should be sent down after the game. Could R. Hernandez start on Friday? Ideally Igawa should get 2 more starts at AAA, before calling him up.
Kay and Mercer both say that Abreu is the player of the game. Not a good argument.
Pavano,
OK.
Whoa when did we lead by 7 runs? Meine Gott.
How is Igawa doing these days?
Some of you older fans may know this? How did Torre treat Rivera’s arm when he was younger? Did he abuse his arm like he does to Proctor or did he pitch similarly to how he uses him now? I’m talking about the days of Wetteland.
CAN I KILL JOE TOREE. 2 INNING OUT OF PROCTOR WHEN UP BY SEVEN FREAKIN RUNS
Neil,
He only threw 12 pitches in the 7th
Take it easy on Clippard — we knew he wasn’t ready yet…. We just had no other choices — Karstens, Rasner, Hughes, Sanchez, Ohlendorf — it’s not like he was our first choice this year. If he can get through a few weeks, he will learn some lessons and be more valuable later or as a trading chip
Kennedy is for real, regardless of the options of some of the nore vocal members of this blog……Nick B.. comes to mind….I just hope that the fast track that the FO has placed him on is not for display come late July…..He could spell Mussina in 09, if not much sooner….I guess Britton gets to blow away AAA hitters until Cashman moves some fat cats out of the pen….
I think that once you put a pitcher in, using him for a second inning isn’t a big deal if he doesn’t throw a lot of pitches. Sending Proctor back out to pitch the 7th was not a big deal.
I’d use Farnsworth, Villone, or Myers now in the 8th. Kay mentioned Bruney is warming up, though. Now that seems like a bit of a waste.
Its not fair to Clippard to compare him to Rivera and Pettitte in 1995. That’s when we go overboard in discussing young pitchers. He isn’t in their class.
Its about stuff. Rivera’s stuff and Pettitte’s stuff were MILES ahead of Clippard’s at the same stages of their careers. Hughes, Marquez, Chamberlain, Kennedy and Horne also have better stuff than Clippard.
I am not even talking about kids like Betances and McAllister yet since they are in short season ball. But, they also deserve monitoring as the summer progresses.
Clippard is the perfect guy to move for a part to improve the team. He is not someone you can factor into the rotation for the future.
Today was important for him and he blew it. I know that sounds harsh but, that’s how players are evaluated.
The Pirates are not a good team, he was staked to a 3 run lead twice, and failed each time. That’s not good. Its not going to give Torre confidence in him. Nor should it.
I readily admit he is up here a year ahead of schedule. However, when you examine the entire Yankee farm system, and see what a kid like Kennedy is doing right now (same age, less pro experience), as well as others, its clear Tyler, stuff-wise, is behind a lot of guys in the system.
He has shown enough to get other teams to be interested, IMO. That’s about it.
However, if I was going to handicap the 2009 rotation, he wouldn’t be anywhere near it.
Its not inconcievable to see the 2009 rotation consist of Wang, Hughes, Kennedy, Chamberlain and Johan Santana.
Santana will be a free agent after next season. If Hughes, Kennedy and Chamberlain project, you have 3 amazing under 25 year old arms in the rotation. Plus, they would be making under 2 million COMBINED. Wang would be only 28 in 2009.
They could offer Santana whatever he wants and be under budget since, Clemens, Pettitte, and Mussina would all be off the books in 2009. He could be the first 25 million dollar a year pitcher.
If you are looking at a long term plan for the Yankees, that’s one way it could go, as far as starting pitching is concerned.
pat m,
if you point to me one place i said kennedy wasn’t for real i will mail you a check for $20
Is Jason Bay supposed to be good defensively? Or is this normal?
Just for fun, remember when the infield of the future was Nick Johnson, Soriano, Jeter and Drew Henson? I think this is the best farm system we have ever had in my time as a Yankee fan, but things don’t always work out like you expect.
What a day for both ARod and Abreu. Nice sweep for the Yankees and bring us to 30 wins. Good pitching and hitting today.
Good job Yankees.
SJ44, you said you’re not a fan of Baseball Prospectus, but you may find their blurb on Clippard interesting:
“Clippard is the kind of pitcher who will continually have to prove himself [because he relies on deception, not a great fastball], and may well have adjustment problems when first reaching the majors. He should eventually settle in as a back of rotation starter, though that estimate may prove to be conservative.”
BP projects him to have a 5.22 ERA in the majors this season. So their view is that he has some learning to do. It’s apples and oranges to compare him to a HOFer like Rivera or a great pitcher like Pettitte. I don’t think anyone believes he’ll be as good as those guys.
From the little I’ve seen of him this year, I think he’s on the cusp of being a serviceable starter. His control improves a bit and he’s getting those calls he didn’t get today, and he could become a league-average pitcher.
I guess it all comes down to what’s best for the team. As we’ve both said no one thought Clippard would start for the Yankees this season. Even if Clippard really is a 5.22 ERA guy this year it wouldn’t do us any good to replace him in the rotation with someone who’s equally bad or worse. I’d love to see Cashman spin Clippard in a good trade and have an effective Igawa replace him, but who knows if anything like that will happen.
Nick, it was gutsy, it was bottom-line effective, but it was ugly.
More importantly — other than Torre feeling that a day without Proctor is a day without sunshine — why not let Vizcaino pitch more with such a big lead if he’s working out his kinks, or have Meyers who loves appearances (seriously, he wants to tie Jesse Orasco for most left handed appearances)throw innings instead of Proctor?
A win away from being at .500. Sad to say but that is a positive thing. Just hope once they get over that line they don’t fall back below it again this season
Abreu is a lock for the Jolliest Player award.
YankeeBoy,
I just think he knows that Proctor will get it done 8 or 9 times out of 10 while he doesn’t have that faith in the other guys. He is forced to have faith in them but if he has to choose one over the other he is going to pick Proctor.
Great job by Abreu and Arod today. Arod is amazing!
With The Rocket man back. The way the boys are playing. We are on a winning streak and ain’t no stopping us now. We are bound to take back our 1st spot soon.
Watch out Sox here we come and not creeping but at full speed ahead.
I know, Nick, but gosh with that kind of lead . . . just pray the man’s arm doesn’t fall off in August.
YankeeBoy,
I definately agree.
I was referring to your being critical regarding last years drafting of him……Check Thursday’s entries, I think you’ll find some critical comments regarding the product form La Quinta HS…..If I’m wrong, I’m truley sorry…..SJ44, You’re right on, that’s what I see also…I know the Mussina 2 year deal was needed, however I’m not certain as to what role that’ll prove to be come Spring 08…And Clippard once again failed to take that next step…It’s as though he stumbles on his tird turn….Make no mistake, he’ll have a MLB career…It’s juct not likely to be in the BRONX…..Power arm pitchers are the call…
Id rather torre use proctor and others for 2 innings than give them a day off or two, of course he wont do that
SJ, i’m salivating at your 2009 projected rotation … u can’t forget about brackman either, hes miles away but he can throw high 90′s with a nasty hook … if hes not injured i really think he is going to be special.
So what Clippard got bombed today? Let’s put things in perspective: it was his first awful start out of (his first) 5 and one could say he was due for it after 4 decent-to-good starts. Pittsburgh’s starter Chacon and bullpen were even worse. ‘Bottom line is the Yanks won today and are 4-1 in games Clippard starts, he’s 3-1, and he just has to turn the page, move on to the next start vs. the Mets next Sat. He’s done so well, he’s bought himself at least 6/16 vs. the Mets, 6/22 at S.F., and 6/29 vs. Oakland. If the Yanks beat the Mets 6/16, he gets 7/4 vs. Minnesota, too, so that would give the Yanks until the end of this month or mid-July to make a deal. If Clippard made it to 7/4, I’d assume his next start after that would be 7/16 vs. Toronto.
I will say, however, that the Yanks should still make a preemptive move i.e. get a starter who can be insurance against Clemens or anyone else falling to injury and Clippard struggling. If the Yanks could reacquire Jon Lieber from Philly, Clippard could further develop in AAA Scranton and vy for the fifth starter job in next year’s Yankee rotation as Wang, Pettitte most likely returning for his free money i.e. $16M player’s option for ’08, Mussina, and Hughes are locks for the ’08 rotation unless Hughes really sucks in spring training (even then he might still be in the rotation Opening Day ’08).
Who was the player of the game?
Wow, I’m glad I wasn’t here to comment during the game. Hard to get too many positives out of Clippard’s performance. On the other hand, I don’t have the stomach to break in another starter not named Phil Hughes. Igawa is not the answer, Joe said as much in his postgame. Clippard will learn from this adversity and be better next time out against the Mets on Saturday. He will get better. For all the clammoring about how we need to break in young pitching, there are a lot of people who showed here they can’t take that pain. Tyler will be much better next week, have patience, we won.
Big win today, as the five hundred mark is in sight at long last. I don’t have a huge issue with Proctor in the game with a 4 run lead in the 7th, though personally I’d have saved Proctor for the 8th. However, once the game is blown open and is 13-6 there is no excuse for Proctor pitching the 8th! Joe needs to have confidence that Villone and Myers can hold the lead. I know Proctor had two days off which is why using him for an inning was not a big deal. Still, I’m afraid he’ll be shot by August when we’ll need him the most. Again, Joe misses an opportunity to save the pen when he has the chance, and it’s frustrating.
It’s amazing how much some people can find to bitch and moan about after a big, sixth straight win.
Yes, Clip got beat up today. However, he’s been up about one month. If I’m not mistaken, Jeremy Bonderman on Detroit lost 20 games his first full year, what, two years ago, and how many would love to have him in our rotation now. If you’re going to want young pitchers, you have to go through the learning curve with them, ’cause no one’s going to hand you a diamond after they’ve been polished.
Clip will be fine, and we should use the advantage of having four other pros to work with him at this level.
Proctor’s job is pitching. He’s been off a couple of days, and tomorrow is an off day.
As I remember, and Joel Sherman’s book reinforced, once Joe figured out what he had in Mariano in ’96, he used him A LOT. That seems to have worked out OK in the long run.
Yankeejosh
Proctor pitching the 8th is fine because he was solid in the 7th. Second, the Yanks have a day off tomorrow and don’t face Arizona until 7:05pm Tuesday, so Proctor might come in as early as 8:30-9pm (if he even comes in at all) thus he’d have at least 2+ days off since he came in mid-afternoon today.
Also why risk bringing in Villone for the 8th then Myers for the 9th or vice versa and either or both giving up 3-4 runs where Mo has to come in to finish the game. If Mo came in, what if he doesn’t have it either? See Cleveland vs. Detroit a few weeks ago (Detroit up 11-5 going into the 9th inning, Cleveland rallies to a 12-11 win). Again, day off tomorrow and a night game Tuesday, so Proctor for 2 IP is fine.
pat m,
i never question taking high school kids. i only questioned some of the misinformed who think that every prospect who is supposed to be good will turn out to meet expecations. sometimes i come off as saying no young pitcher will succeed and i don’t intend to come out as like that but sometimes its hard to get a point across to a fan who has no idea what they are talking about. i really have no preference in high school or college pitchers. the only reason I like high school pitchers are some college teams beat on a kids arm to the point where he can no longer be effective. the pitcher for UC Irvine threw 144 pitches the other day, way to many on a young arm. that happens even more at the high school level but if you get a pitcher young enough, you can limit the strain on his arm.
I think Clip should remain in the rotation until it is certain that someone will do better. If Igawa seems ready then give him another shot, if not I think it’s Clippards job unless he has another bad couple outings. Hopefully he has his stuff next time and he throws it for strikes
joe,
if you read the post from logical people it wasn’t that people were complaining about him as a pitcher. they were complaining about him not throwing it over the plate. most fans who know what they are talking about don’t care if he loses or gets hit as long as he is trying and throwing pitches. not trying to nibble on the corners. no pitcher has ever been successful trying to paint the black on every pitch. you have to hit your locations first and foremost. a lot of times those locations are over the plate. you have to have confidence in your arm and stuff to hit those spots. he didn’t have that today. if he can’t do that, he has to go back down where the hitters aren’t as good and learn to do that better. no one is ready to give up on him, he just has a long way to go. the tigers lost 100-110 games that year that bonderman did that. this isn’t scranton, pitchers don’t have the ability to learn on the fly here b/c fans aren’t going to watch a 100 loss team
Yes, Torre used Mariano in 4 of the 6 1996 World Series games,
at one point 3 days in a row. He was in games 1 and 4 of the 5 game ALCS, and 2 and 4 of the 4 game ALDS. He pitched 107.2 in the regular season with 8 wins, 5 saves, and 14 GF. 14.1 IP in the postseason. Over that 122 innings in 1996, he gave up exactly 1 homerun. Joel Sherman’s book tells the story very well.
If I remember well, in 1995 Mo was sent back to minors and after some time cam back to Majors as a better pitcher. I think same was true with Pettitte.
During the last week, with very good play, Yankees made very good progress in the standings.
With one more win, they will attain the all too important .500 winning percentage.
In the wild card, they are just 5 games out in the loss column. Not only that, now they trail only three teams in the wild card. They started the week with 7 games behind and about six teams ahead of them.
Slowly but steadily, progress is being made and by the end of June we should be in a very good shape in the standings with more than half the regular season still left. I still do not rule out catching Boston in September…..
For the Yankees to take the division lead by the end of the season they would have to play 600+ ball(probably higher) and more importantly have the Red Sox play under .500 the rest of the way.
A mighty task to ask since the Sox have solid pitching barring injury of course.
The Wild Card will be our main way to enter the playoffs.
Listen to this critical stretch.
Thursday Aug 16 Aug 30th.
Ready?
4 with Detroit
4 @ LAA Angels
4 @ Detroit
3 with Boston
Talk about a rough stretch. I know thats looking waaaaaaaay ahead but damn!
Here’s my take on the wildcard race:
Toronto and Baltimore will fall out of it as they are perennial pretenders -they’re falling out of the race already.
Chicago doesn’t have the offense or bullpen to win it.
Minnesota doesn’t have the rotation after Johann Santana (who’s 6-6) or the offense after Morneau, Mauer, and Hunter to win it.
Seattle isn’t there yet and will fade down the stretch.
Oakland doesn’t have the long-run offense to win it.
It will be a dogfight between the Yanks and Detroit as I see
Boston most likely winning the East barring a complete collapse (‘about time, it’d only be a dozen years), Cleveland winning the Central, and the Angels winning the West.
The Yanks will win the wildcard if not the division because Detroit’s schedule after today doesn’t have a breather in it save 9 games vs. Kansas City negated by the Yanks playing 10 games with K.C.
I’m only guessing Yanks vs. Angels again and Boston vs. Cleveland in the A.L.D.S. If so lucky Boston.
That 14-game stretch isn’t that bad cuz 7 games are at home,
4 are at a pitcher’s park (Detroit), and no Boston starting pitcher has stepped up and dominated the Yanks save Tavarez, but I chalk that up to an off-day for Wang (first Tavarez win) and a Mussina blowup (second Tavarez win). Tavarez overall isn’t nearly as good as he has been vs. the Yanks this year, I think he’s due to get creamed and even if he doesn’t, he’s due even more, just win 2 of 3 if he’s in Boston’s win. Also he wasn’t GREAT against the Yanks. I remember Luis Castillo had a few wins vs. the Yanks one year earlier this decade and he was better than Tavarez at that point.
8-6 is doable and would be just fine. Ideally the rotation would be Wang/ Pettitte/ Clemens/ Mussina/ whoever the #5 starter is then twice then the front four that way the #5 starter makes only 2 of 14/ a seventh of the starts. Jon Lieber would look nice for 8/20 at L.A. and 8/26 at Detroit.
Nick B. –
1. Pitchers, like any other player, need to learn how to function at the ML level. Repeating the same grade, once you’ve already done well at it, does not accomplish anything. In any line of work, one must rise to the challenge.
2. Don’t be so condescending.
If the Florida Marlins are no where near a wild card berth by the trading deadline, I bet they will deal Willis. A package of Shelley Duncan, Tyler Clippard, Chris Britton,Joba Chamberlain maybe Kevin Thimpson and $2M could net Dontrelle Willis. If needed, then throw in Melky. But then, if they lose Melky, they need to pursue a decent 3 or 4 outfielder. A guy like Eric Byrnes or something. The Dbacks have a glutton of OFs already.
Whaddya think?
I think that’s a whole lot to give up for an NL pitcher.
That would be way too much for any Dontrelle Willis. He is one of the most overrated pitchers in the league. If he were to leave Dolphin Stadium (one of the best pitcher’s park) and come to the AL East he would get bombed. He is not worth Joba Chamberlain alone, yet him plus many others.
It is way too much for Dontrelle.
I am not sold on him that he will be successful in AL East. He is not having an impressive year with Marlins this year any away.
Regarding the stretch from August 16-30, look at it as an opportunity to knock Detroit out of WC contention in those eight games. We have to win against these teams if we really wnat to make it to the playoffs. If we are afraid of the competition, we might as well fold the tent now, which I am not prepared to.
I got to say this thank god Alex Rodriguez wasn’t traded .. this man is just unreal, and the lineup is better w/ no Giambi, CF has better D, DH has versatility, 1B has better D, we are becoming a hit n run and a smart ball team.
Now any further negotiation or deal for anything should be the bullpen. Forget the bats like Teixiera and or Dye our team needs that 7th inning pitcher, that 8th inning pitcher and the inning eater pitcher. P.S. release Myers and in 9 more days JC Romero can be signed. Any negotiations w/ Texas should be about CJ Wilson or Eric Gagne.
All in all this lineup is good, the OF defense could be better and we need to win the game at the bases and from the BP on.
willis is overrated. they need to make a trade for a reliever or 1st baseman (by the way thompson and duncan are both career minor leaguers so don’t expect them to be a part of a trade for anybody) … chamberlain should be untouchable IMO when it comes to the trading deadline unless you’re talking about santana, but thats not likely
amazing how everyone dumps on ty clip after a bad outing…. last time when he won, im sure it was all the same people praising him as the next great stud (people even suggested he was the 2nd best prospect in the minors back then).
he is a 5th starter and rookie.. when was the last time a rook came up and just blew people away start after start. if ty clip can give us 2 quality starts (6ip 3 runs) for every one bad outing like today.. id take that in a heartbeat. the kid is good enough to hold down the 5th spot. i dont want to see another rook coming up and making his debut, clip is getting comfortable and will be fine for us..
also.. i can imagine this kid was alittle nervous with clemens in the dugout watching him, dont underestimate the fact that he must be a bit in awe.
That package is enough to net you two Dontrell Willises.
any and all trades should be for bullpen help ..
Bostons gonna lose
RE 8-16 to 8-30:
Notes:
(1) We own Detroit in the regular season. Yes they have Sheff, but we still own them nonetheless. Maybe it will be different this year? Let’s say 5-3.
(2) Angels are tough. Give it 2-2.
(3) Sox? By then, someone is going down. 2-1.
That makes 9-5 during that stretch, maybe picking up 3 games on Boston.
Last but not least, the projected rotation by then: Clemens, Wang, Petitte, Mussina, Hughes–all of whom will be pitching like it’s late June given all the rest that they have had this year.
9.5. The Sox are choking. They squandered 5 games in a week
Lead down to 9 1/2 now…..5 for WC
Things are a changing very quickly in the AL East.
red sox fans might get on the ledge soon!!!!!!!!!!
there offense is hurting on the road; crisp, lugo, and drew stink….
big papi does not play in NL parks, mught heart goes out for them……………
boston loses!!! yanks are 9.5 back, single digits sounds so much better.
like damon says.. if we can be 5-6 games back by all star, things look good
SJ44,
I have been reading this blog for a long time. You seemingly have done a thorough research on the minor league players. I always respect people who done their homeworks regardless of their conclusions.
Questions for you: What was your take on Cano and Wang before they were called up? Were they even under your radar before 2005? Quite some NY sport writers described them as “out of nowhere’ guys in 2005.
joe,
nice response??? you compare me saying that clip was afraid his stuff to repeating a grade in school. you think its better to throw someone to the wolves than to learn how to do something right and then move up. also how am i condecending b/c i said his outing wasn’t very good. i never said he was a bad pitcher, just said he was afraid to throw his pitches