On further review, Tony Soprano is dead
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jun 18, 2007 
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If you’re not into The Sopranos, skip this post.
If you are then you have to read this blog entry by Bob Harris.
Meanwhile, of the 150 people on the plane, at least 40 of them had on Yankees gear. I suspect there will be a lot of New York fans in the house at Coors Field these next three days.
I’m half asleep, so catch you tomorrow.
Great analysis that was definitely interesting and not pulled out of thin air.
Couldn’t Chase be using the classic metaphors in a creative way to show the “death” of the character of Tony Soprano without necessarily “killing” Tony Soprano within the series.
“Two things urks me when i hear people say that he died. Who killed him, and why? He had a sit down with NY, they gave him the go ahead to take out Phil. There was no indication at all that they would doublecross Tony and take him out anyway, after they made their deal. This couldnt have been someone with personal vengence. This is the mafia, Tony is not only a made guy, he’s a boss. You can’t just go around killing made guys. You need to have a good reason, you need to have a sit-down and you have to get permission. (All things Tony did to take out Phil). I don’t like the fact that Chase would make the viewer think up a killer and a motive on their own. This is all pretty cool, but nobody is analyzing who killed him and why.”
In keeping w/ the mob motif, “Peter, we’re bigger than U.S. Steel”
yeah, Tony is dead. the ending is similar to the ending of “The Unbearable Lightness of Being”
Drum roll, please: dadadadadadaddadadad *7 games down in the loss column, and 38 stiches takes the loss* Bang!
i don’t disagree with the notion that tony’s dead but i got this far in the linked post and started cracking up:
And sure enough, a guy in a Members Only jacket – an unlikely fashion choice, unless David Chase is showing us the ending in enormous letters
i’m guessing bob harris hasn’t spent a lot of time in north jersey
Not only did 38 Stitches take the loss, but he left the post-gamers with a difficult conversation. Eckersly said it out loud. At this point you have to be concerned that Curt may have or be losing it. Losing his fastball. Losing his location.
Huzzah!!
Oh, and as for Harris. He’s dancing to the tune Chase played, and if that makes him happy, so be it. But Chase’s desire to make fans of the show dance seems more arrogant than appropriate to me.
There are many ways to end a TV series. Ending it in order to call attention to yourself? Not the best option, IMO.
He’s not dead. Couldn’t make a movie if he’s dead.
Yeah, the show is about Tony Soprano and when Tony Soprano is no more, the show goes black. It’s genius.
Also anyone who has seen the Godfather movies could have easily figured out what happened. Chase gave a lot hints.
Marius makes a good point about the Godfather – while you heard the gunfire, they never showed Fredo buying it.
Harley-
that was my thinking, too – 38 Stitches is hurt. it’s similar to how Luis Vizcaino was injury led to his erratic pitching, two months ago.
YEAH curt looked terrible. topped out 91 mph. 4 1/3 they have a Moose loss of velocity issue.
the lovefest on NESPN was interesting except there love option the sux lost…
7 in the loss column!!!!!!!!!!
Even if tony is dead, they can still make a movie.. a prequel perhaps on how tony ended up in the mob could be interesting.
Sox get crushed …. they are simply a pathetic team with ortiz out of the lineup, there is no team in the AL that losing the DH hurts more then boston..
I think this is what 3 out of the last 4 starts 38pitches got roughed up.. brilliant!!!!
There won’t be any movie.
I know it’s hard to say goodbye. Trust me, I’ve seen the season finale 3 times. A movie would be ridiculous, there is no reason for one. There is closure on the series.
I agree with about 75% of what Bob Harris had to say. Great analysis, a few points were over the top.
The biggest key of the entry though, was when I leared that Chase wanted the blackness to last 30 seconds originally.
He’s dead, my initial interpretaion and only slightly doubted but now reaffirmed.
Yankee VIP (cashman ?)-
yes, yes, I am brilliant Thanks, Brian. Big fan.
On a side note, I saw this ridiculous article from Mark Kiszla of the Denver Post about tickets being so expensive.
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_6165859
I can understand being upset at ownership for being so bad for so long, but you can’t blame smart business decisions in raising prices when the Yankees come to town.
Not like it doesn’t happen in any other ballpark either, don’t act like you’re special.
While that was a good read I think that’s over analyzing things. I agree with people that Bacala’s statement about death was foreshadowing things, but I believe it’s about the show in general. Not necessarily implicating Tony had been killed.
I do not have HBO so I have not seen the last episode. However it is impossible to not know that Tony is dead thanks to various members of the media who can not keep a spoiler to save their lives, putting it dead center on their home page in 72 pt type (I’m not blaming you Pete. IIRC, you kept it quiet here last week about the final episode). Why is it they can keep quiet about the endings of movies but not TV? 10 million people out of the 300 million in this country saw the episode. 1 out of 30 people. The other 29 of us have been informed by Yahoo, MSNBC, et al.
on the bright side, Schill got knocked out of the game tonight. Life is good!!!
Still not buying Tony dead and all that symbolism can just as easily be pointing to the death of the series as the death of the character.
I understand NY still wanting to take him out. One of the 5 families can’t just let some hillbilly from Jersey whack their top guy without the rank and file revolting. But the supposed hit is so sloppy (the guy sits there fidgeting, orders coffee so that the waitress gets a good look at him, stares at Tony instead of walking up and doing it quickly)and inconsistent with past hits (not a two man team, no getaway car doubleparked outside when Meadow is parking) that the actual facts don’t support a hit without a huge leap.
Ted-
what a bunch of crybabies: _A good seat behind home plate that went for $42 at Coors Field on Sunday_
According to the Yankess home page, box seats near the field are $150 a pop, but that’s the discount rate, and you only get that if you buy a season ticket. Otherwise it’s $300 for a single game (advanced purchase) or $400 on the day of the game. It’s like buying an airline ticket.
$42 bucks, Whiners!!
pat m in CT
CNN took it one step further. They went into coverage about The Sopranos with a big “SPOILERS AHEAD” warning, and because I had seen it I watched.
At the end of the segment the newscaster goes something like, “Since we’re ruining endings for everyone, here are a few more surprise endings revealed” and before I could change the station they showed the ending to like 5-6 movies. Luckily I had seen them all before because they were famous but damn. If nobody had seen “The Sixth Sense” yet for some strange reason or “Planet of the Apes” they would have been screwed.
Lame.
PL – you make a good point, but I think there certainly is a plausible explanation for who the Members Only guy is and why he might want to kill Tony:
It’s nothing but the completion of the hit ordered by NY. Think about the (original) failed hit on Phil. The guys were foreigners, contracted out and given a picture of their target (which they proceeded to screw up). There’s a very good chance that just as Tony’s guys eventually caught up to Phil at the gas station, perhaps one of the “zips” that Phil sent to kill Tony finally finished the job. If the contracted hitman had no way of communicating back to NY (or if there was a line of communication, it might have been through several other parties, just like the guys sent to kill Phil) then of course he would not know of Phil’s demise or the agreement between Tony and Butch to take Phil out.
Further, a significant thematic aspect of the series, especially the final season, is the needless violence, suffering, etc. I mean think back to when Ralphie killed that dancer, or when Junior shot Tony, or when Christopher shot his sponsor, or when the guy got hit with the golf club, or when Christopher (or was it Paulie) killed the waiter, or when Tony burned down Vesuvio….you get my point. I really could list countless more examples, but the ultimate example is this last scene. Members Only guy (assuming here that he is Phil’s hired hitman) commits the ultimately needless/unnecessary violent crime by killing Tony (Phil’s gone and Butchie wouldn’t still want the hit going through). Not to mention the needless violence of killing a man in front of his family and in front of a group of cub scouts.
Of course I don’t think I’m RIGHT about this, just an opinion and an observation.
Wow, I picked up on the “Godfather” reference with the Salozzo shooting, but this link was quite revealing. Anyone else notice Tony returning to his house clutching a baked ham under his arm ? Reminded me of Uncle Junior reflecting on Livia… “She’s like a woman with a Virginia Ham under her arm complaining she doesn’t have any bread”… oh well, maybe I’m reading to much into it.
On the lighter side, Boston crashed and burned like the Hindenburg tonight, “oh, the humanity…”, nice seing Youkilis cry like a baby and the Schill being shut down. Happy times, indeed.
I thought that Harris’ analysis was thought-provoking, but I just can’t see David Chase beating us over the head with Godfather references. The Salozza murder is THE pivotal event in the Godfather series where Michael comes of age so to speak. Any fan of those movies instantly noticed the parallel with the Member’s Only guy entering the bathroom, and I just can’t see Chase recreating that scene to end his ‘baby.’ The opening scene of the Sopranos movie will be Tony triumphantly exiting the courthouse after winning his racketeering trial.
Woooohoooo, the Red Sox got pounded with Curt Schilling on the mound… and the Yankees gained a half-game! Only 7 games back in the loss column now.
Apparently someone on Skirt (Schilling’s) blog says that the Yankees went on that nine game winning streak because they were “feasting upon the bottom of the NL”, while the Red Sox were “battling against the cream of the NL crop”.
Last time I checked, the D-Backs were one of the best teams in the National League…I can’t say the same thing about the Rockies (who the Sox were playing).
I’m not lying, in the past couple days there have been more pieces about the Yankees coming to Denver then there were about the Rockies. You would think the Beatles were coming to town.
Pete, thanks for that link. It was very interesting reading. It surprises me that people dig so deeply, but it’s fun to see the results of their “obsession.” I liked reading all the clues about McCartney’s death at the time, and I also got into reading about all the references in the song, “American Pie.” They’re like little mysteries. The final episode of the Sopranos was a lot like those.
I certainly wasn’t watching the final episode closely enough to catch all those nuances. Perhaps the whole point was to keep people talking? But Paul wasn’t dead, and I still think that while the show is dead, Tony Soprano isn’t.
Chase has dropped in dozens of things that allude to death, there is little doubt about that. But is it literaly Tony’s death? Is it Tony’s realisation that his life is not a victory despite his emerging victorious over Phil L? He will spend the rest of his life looking over his shoulder.
Also look at Tony’s entrance to the restraunt. The cut from him at the door to him in the booth is very strange. It is too sharp. Like the intro to many dream or internal sequences. There is no cut to him taking a seat, but a fast cut to him in a diff shirt sitting waiting at the booth. Does he ever actually sit down? The whole sequence at the booth is very strange. Does it ever really happen? Or is it Tony foreseeing his own death/ contemplating death given his seeing the last supper type image (minus himself/Jesus) upon entering and the fact that he’s been surrounded by death for the last few weeks.
I guess that person fails to see that the Yankees and soxs both will face and have faced the same nl west teams. and that the soxs faced a last place sf giants team, while the yanks faced a first place nl east team.
To the cat, I haven’t seen it mentioned anywhere. But the cat took a liking to the picture of Christopher, it purred as it looked at it. I think it is Adriana reincarnated (sp).
That is a complete rambling by Harris. Oranges, color schemes, themes.
I think Chase did his job for anyone questioning the ending now. Hes got everyone still talking about it.
randyhater is right.
if thats a hit its the sloppiest hit in mob history and not how you take out a Boss. Especailly when hes out to dinner with his family. Its just not done.
1. coors field and the rockies might actauly make a profit during the yanks visit .
2. tony may be or may be not dead – depends on if they make a movie .
Joe should let Melky play CF, Cairo at 1st and Nieves should catch Moose. The offense has been coming from the middle of the lineup anyways. Lets have our best defense out there in Coors and rely on decent pitching and big hits from Jeter, Bobby, Arod and Matsui
How long until the Tejada for 1st base rumours start?
It started and stopped when he went on the DL
At least the series didn’t end with a dream sequence. Come on people: Chase et al think we’re plebian morons, and he undoubtedly couldn’t be happier (in mocking fashion) that thousands of people are taking the end of a TV show this seriously.
Now let’s get back to taking meaningless baseball games too seriously…:)
Wow that was a heavy read Pete. I never knew about the orange connection in the Godfather. Plus the changing of the background, the funeral shot and the onion rings as communion wafers is all very interesting.
I think I will go on believing that it was the show that died, not Tony and AJ. I will however, make sure I direct anyone I speak to about it to Bob’s blog.
Sopranos, what a retarded tv show that was. glad that’s over.
All these theories will be funny to read when they announce they are shooting a Sopranos movie in 3 years.
Tejada would work at first base. So would Nomah…who looks like he’s fallen out of favor with L.A.
A-Rod 5 ahead of Maris’ pace.
Regis Philbin said on his show this morning that when he talked to Torre last night at his Safe at Home event talked bout Yankees first baseman Todd Helton? Did a deal happen that hasn’t been announced yet or did he just make a mistake?
thanks for posting that link pete.
wow, I was at piece with the ending (thinking tony didn’t die) but that was some strong evidence. that said – we didn’t get to see the next scene, so even if all arrows point to something, it doesn’t mean it happened.
I think Chase gave every fan what they wanted – it was subjective, whatever you wanted to take away from it, you could and you can’t say one is right or wrong. i take comfort in that.
and p.s. I love that people are still debating this show! it really was a classic and I am glad to say I was a fan from Day 1 and saw it all the way though. Long live Tony!
Great day for this post. I finally caught up with the final 3 episodes last night since there wasn’t a game.
well if he really is dead and they’re not going to do a movie in a few years(which I highly doubt) then I’m more than a little ticked off. Him dying like that makes the ending even worse. I like to be able to see what’s happening. I don’t like garbage where it “happened off camera so you can use your imaginarion” If I wanted to imagine what it looked like I’d pick up a copy of “Sopranos the Book” >:o Also I hate how they just left AJ like that… I’d have been thrilled with him dying since he’s such a crybaby but a huge part of the show earlier in the series was the progression of father to son. Tony used to mope to his shrink “My son is doomed” thinking it was inevitable.
this guy rambles too much in his writing. 20 something paragraphs and he’s said nothing.
teach him how to write a blog pete!
A movie can always happen regardless. Killing him, not killing him, does not change that. “if he’s dead” is up to interpretation, and that’s likely the point. Further, they can always do a pre-quel, telling the story of before all of this…
Anyone who thinks Tony is dead needs to read the interview Chase did for the Star Ledger. He talks about the problems that a movie would face, one being that if it was a prequel, you know that Tony doesn’t die which would make it a bit anti-climactic (or would it be pre-climactic?).
But the signs Harris discusses are interesting, and I think they are real in pointing to the aura and the reality of death that fills Tony’s life. But I don’t think it means Tony dies. Omens of death don’t necessarily have to mean that someone dies; they’re metaphors, as PL noted in the first post above.
Anyway, my two cents. And Jason O, if you think the show is meaningless and not worth your time, then why are you posting about it? If anyone is taking it too seriously, it’s you.
Tony ain’t swimmin’ with no fishes.
It’s pretty obvious…The Series was wacked…not Tony.
Bob Harris’ comments represent the definition of psychobabble. Or is he just channeling Chase in the Chunnel.
“David Chase chose to shoot the final scene in a dessert shop in Bloomfield, New Jersey, where the actual mascot of the town’s real high school football team is the same as that of nearby Princeton University — an orange tiger.”
Bloomfield and Princeton are nearby? okay Bob.
Exactly my point.
Harris The Lapsed Agnositic…last watched the show many seasons ago, then comes back to watch the last couple of episodes and decides to give a Homily on the similarities between the Sopranos finale and the Eucharistic Celebration with orange onion rings undergoing Transubstantiation.
Sorry Peter Abraham but Harris interpretation is so bogus it’s actually very, very funny that 80,000 people are not falling on the floor laughing at Harris. But silly me…he’s an expert on everything…he’s got the Jeopardy chops to prove it!!!!
Wow, that was an enlightening article.
I wonder if the Members Only guy is blowing smoke up our a$$es or if there will actually be an alternate ending available on the DVD…hmmmm.