Today in The Journal News
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jun 27, 2007 
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Scott Proctor let the Orioles walk away with a win last night.
Johnny Damon feels better. This notebook also has updates on Roger Clemens, Bobby Abreu and others.
Joe Torre told us before the game that Roger Clemens was away at a funeral. But my office got a call from the paper in Greenville, S.C., saying Clemens had been there since Monday morning.
I’m still trying to get the story straight, but it seems like Clemens was in South Carolina and his travel plans changed and he did not attend the funeral. Regardless, he was at Camden Yards by the fourth inning or so.
Forget to link to this story yesterday. Ernie Palladino did a good feature on why coaches and managers dress the way they do.
Ernie must have read my comment the other day
Two questions:
1. Did anyone ask Proctor about what he didnt throw to 2nd base after he caught the pop-up bunt?? Was it just a brain fart, did he get the wind knocked out of him. there certainly were enough people for yelling and pointing for him to know he had a shot and doubling up.
2. I should probably know this but what exactly is the reasoning behind you do not bring your closer in in a tie game on the road. Being as the home team has last licks especially in the 9th wouldnt you want the best chance to hold them from scoring the winning run and you not even getting another shot??
“I should probably know this but what exactly is the reasoning behind you do not bring your closer in in a tie game on the road.”
idiocy. and the emergence of the “save” statistic in recent years. closers get used in “save situations”.
you would think that after Torre potentially cost the Yankees a World Series by doing this, he might actually learn something about baseball strategy.
Hmm:
Not really. The idea is that what happens if you use your closer and the game remains tied? Who closes then if you take the lead?
Plus Rivera had an elbow injury last year. The Yankees are concerned with using him more than one inning.
Torre has his reasons and they’re legit. But given Mo’s lack of work lately, he could have been used 2 innings last night.
So, you manage to not lose instead of winning? Sounds like a great idea. Just mangage the club on a big list of “what if” scenarios, and not what’s actually happening on the field at the time.
Every other manager in the game brings in Mo as soon as Proctor doesn’t get the double play on the bunt attempt; the dive may have not hurt him physically, but none the less, why not let him leave on a high note?
Terrible is the only word I can use to describe Torre’s gross incompetence this year, and to be frank, it’s borderline insanity. The manager of my kid’s high school team shows more know how sometimes.
Torre’s reasons were nowhere near legit other than being the target if his “what if” scenario played out and someone else had to close and couldn’t.
I guess we’ll never ‘friggin know, will we?
I never thought I’d say this, but Torre needs to be released and new blood, some with a little moxy, is brought in and puts a fire under the arse of some of these guys who are, well, sucking.
Top Ten Lists – Best Baseball Franchises
http://www.roaminggolfer.com/sportsbeat/?p=7
1) Boston Redsox
2) St Louis Cardinals
3) Ny Yankees
“Not really. The idea is that what happens if you use your closer and the game remains tied? Who closes then if you take the lead?”
so are you saying that managers have been reluctant to use their #1 reliever in a tie game on the road for decades?? or would you say this is a more recent development?
your choice of words is telling: “who CLOSES then if you take the lead?”
the CLOSER itself is pretty recent development, and one whose use is very closely tied to the “save situation”.
in a situation where 1 run loses the game for your team, it’s just bad strategy to not use your best pitcher. so what if you have to use another pitcher to “close” once (IF!!!!!) you get a lead.
it’s better to cross that bridge when you get there than to never get there at all.
“Torre has his reasons and they’re legit. But given Mo’s lack of work lately, he could have been used 2 innings last night.”
if you concede that Mo could have pitched 2 innings, than no, Torre’s reasons are not legit.
Quotes of the Year:
“Actually before you send Bobby Aboo Aboo somewhere tie him to the wall in the batting cage put a catcher’s mask on him and drill him with 95 MPH heat from the pitching machine and don’t let him wear a cup either MAYBE HE WILL GROW UP AND ACT LIKE A MAN!!!�
“VOID GIAMBI’s contract I don’t care if you have to plant roids at his house do whatever it takes!!!!!!!!�
“Post Igawa up for Japanese teams to bid on him.�
HAHAHA those are good
Just on the general theme — Joe Torre’s comment reported in the post –
“I’m not ready to call off the dogs at this point in time. There’s still plenty of baseball left,” Torre said. “We played well for longer than a couple of days. We did a lot of good things while we were putting the streak together. We just need to get that feel back again.”
I would submit as a manager of a large organization that the ‘team’ can’t get the feeling back when management is making one stupid decision after another.
I love what St. Joe did for the Yankees but he had such tools that his game management decisions ony proved crucial in the playoffs — we railed at them, they have always been there but now they are blowing games that are deperatekly needed. This season solid gamae management decisions are need daily – and Joe’s managment is making a tough situation worse.
– Scott Proctor not only did not have control – his mind was not in the game evidenced by blowing a DP opportunity — as a manager you can’t trust theat he will find it — evidence is there in the prior blown saves and inability to K anyone compared to “desired” ability and last year’s K/BB rate
– and as many have commented “Saving Rivera” is too stupid for words — I liked the term “fireman” — get the fire under control and move from there
– Rivera is the only current Yankee capable of killing a ralley by the other team — other guys can be expected to get through from the beginning of a inning
maybe not abd place for Clemens or Petitt on their throw days (only when such an emergency arises — wher eyou need Rivera to put outthe fire with aslittle damage as possible in agme that is clearly in the balance)
Bunting with CANO – how many times do we have to suffer throough that lunatic play — especialy to move Jorge to 2B – he often can’t score from there anyway.
It sure appeared to the annuncers and all of us fans that this was going to be a tight game – how do you let Cairo play when Phillips is superior defensively and offensively. How do you let Cairo hit in a RS situation where a deep Fly secures a run.
The worst thing about Torre is is record of using and bringing along youngsters. He ddi not move Jeter – it took a season ending injury to the SS; Wang and Cano had to be reinserted because there was NO CHOICE — left to Torre we went back to the Mendoza Line specialist at 2B — last it took 2 injuries to play Melky and then 2 again this year. The youngers get a chance to flourish ONLY when they know they have the job and won’t be pulled in an oout of the lineup– Give PHILLIPS 20 games and see hwat happens – it will not be worse than Cairo — if it is then TRADE at the deadline IF the season has a reasonable chance of being saved — 50% — at today’s standing the odds are probaly closer to zero.
Three reasons to let JOE GO NOW. 1) DEMONSRATE THAT THIS LEVEL OF PLAY FROM THIS TEAM IS UNACCEPTABLE — in John Wayne’s line “Your Fault, My fault, Nobody’s Fault” someone dies (figuratively); 2)Trust Giradi (although I love Donnie) to make good in-game decisions; use the kids properly; and 3) to eavluate Giradi for next year — rather than atthe begining of next yer where a dismal start will doom him
There comes a time for every player to SIT -and then go — Manger’s should not get a free pass to the end of the season -
Joe can’t hink through a game — he has to go
If Torre wont leave, can we at least invent a new position: “Bullpen Coordinator.” Oh, and tell the team to steal more because they are making the pitchers too comfortable with their leaning non-chalantly at first.
I agree that not bringing Mariano in the game was a mistake.
However, its not the only reason they lost the game.
When you have the weaknesses this team possesses, its not one move that costs you games. Mariano could have easily spit the bit last night. Its not like he’s been automatic this year.
At this point, its so beyond strategy as to what’s wrong with this team, its not funny.
Its just not a very good ballclub. Period. Names mean nothing to me. Its all about production and, with few exceptions (Arod, Jeter, Posada, Pettitte, Wang and Rivera), this team has not produced consistently all year.
They can’t hit. More appropriately, 6 of the 9 guys in the order (excluding Arod, Jeter and Posada) aren’t hitting and they NEVER hit with RISP. Getting in runners from third with less than 2 outs? They have been near the bottom of MLB all year at it. Its killed them in three games on this roadtrip thus far.
A blip here and there with the offense. That’s all we have seen this year. For the most part, this team has seriously underachieved offensively.
In fact, if Arod has just been good this year, instead of unbelievable, they would be in last place right now. That’s how bad the offense has been this season.
When you score 4 runs or less (in the AL) 42% of the time (their number for the season), you aren’t a good offense, run differential be damned.
They don’t throw strikes out of the bullpen. That’s been a weakness of the ‘pen (except for Mo) all season. Now, its reached the embarrassing stage.
Its why they don’t win low scoring games.
At this point, they have 12 more games before the All Star Break. If I am the GM, I see what happens in those games.
If they go 8-4 or better, I try to salvage the season by making some upgrades and saving my A List prospects. I look to make some moves (Wiggington for Henn, for example) that gives me a chance to compete.
Anything less than 8-4, I have to face reality. Its not a playoff year and I begin the dismantling process. The only untouchables on this roster are Arod, Jeter, Wang, Posada, Pettitte and Rivera, as far as I am concerned.
Everybody else (excluding the “A” List prospects) is in play and you see what’s out there.
No trade clauses? A big issue. However, you talk to some of the guys who haven’t won rings (Abreu and Mussina, for example) and see if they want to go someplace that gives them a better shot. If they don’t, you make it clear this is their last year in NY, regardless of the outcome. Perhaps that makes them re-think their stances. If not, you make plans for next year excluding both guys.
The key now (IMO) is to think beyond this season. How do you want to construct the team? What type of players to you want in the clubhouse? Stuff like that.
Like it or not, this is a transition year. I know for many Yankee fans, they don’t like hearing it. But, that’s the way it is.
Use it as such, move out some folks, begin calling up the guys you see as part of your future (I start with 4: Britton, Ramirez and Chamberlain for the bullpen and Kennedy to be the 5th starter), and start getting their feet wet at the ML level.
Every other team in baseball mainstreams their young arms into the flow this way. Its time the Yankees do the same thing. If nothing else, it gives the fans something to talk about besides the same guys failing every night. That’s how you build hope to a fan base, IMO.
Its all you can when your season goes in the wrong direction.
Pete,
Any word on possible deals or minor league call ups? Is it just us fans who are getting panic stricken with this roster or do you hear/think Cashman is legitimately working on something?
I still don’t fault Torre for his handling of the pen last night. I’ll say it again, the Orioles are one of the worst teams in the league with no Tejada and he needed to save Mo for if/when we got the lead. If we had taken the lead in the 12th and already used Mo and had to have Proctor or Myers or Bruney close and they blew it, the fans would be going ape over the fact that we didn’t have Mo to close the game and hold the lead.
Proctor should have been able to get through the 9th and get us into extra innings. I don’t think the plan was to let him walk in the winning run, but at the same token he poured gas on the fire so quick, bringing in Mo with the bases loaded wasn’t the answer either. Proctor, when he throws strikes, can strike out the side and get us out that inning…but he’s not doing the job right now and the pen needs to be shuffled somehow.
I would love to see this Ramirez kid from AAA w/all the strike outs and see what he has. Send down Bruney (if he has options) and have him work on his control and let’s see if Ramirez can do something in the pen.
It is amazing at all you people who want Torre’s head. What more can he do with this current group of players who exceedingly under-perform while being overpaid.
1. The entire bullpen sucks. They are in the bottom of the league in almost every category. It doesn’t matter what he moves he makes it will result in the other team scoring runs. Lets say he bring Rivera to pitch the 9th and 10th innings. Do you really think the Yanks would score a run when they haven’ hit a lick in the past 8 days? Then the 11th comes around and you have to use your bad bullpen anyway.
2. He benches Bobby Sunday and then moves him to 8th in the order and states to Peter “he needs to get more comfortable before we can consider moving him back�. I call that a wake-up call.
3. Cano – Joe is really limited here because who on the bench that Brian Cashman gave him is going to play 2nd base. Have Cario play second and Andy Phillips play first. I don’t think those two .220 career hitters are going to help your lack of run production. In addition lets say you let Cano hit away in that situation and he grounds into a double play, you would all be yelling why didn’t he play small ball and bunt.
In addition lets say you let Cano hit away in that situation and he grounds into a double play, you would all be yelling why didn’t he play small ball and bunt.
canoo cant bunt
“Mo’s lack of work lately” Anyone else tired of hearing those words? Seems like every week we’re saying “mo’ needs some work” because we’re not winning enough to keep him active. How is it that this guy, our MVP every year, can barely find playing time this year?
Torre needs to start getting him in games to keep him sharp regardless of whether or not it’s a save situation. Waiting for him to get rusty then throwing him in a game we’re winning by 4 just to get him some work isn’t enough. how about getting him some regular work in the first place?
ChrisNY , If the the Yankees continue to play
sorry post got cut
…500 ball I would prefer Rivera’s innings be limited to the least possible for the rest of the year. He is not getting any younger and I would prefer to save those innings for 08 and 09 when they might field a team that can give Mo a lead more then 1/week.
You yourself, Peter Abraham, said Mo had pitched only 1 2/3 IP in 9 days and implied that Torre should’ve brought in Mo to hold the tie which he should’ve done. So which is it, your tiresome “Torre can do no wrong, you’re all idiots” spiel, or Torre messed up? Here’s my answer, grin and bear it: Torre messed up and managed like a “what if..?” retread because GASP! he makes mistakes just like players do
(see Jeter’s baserunning blunder the other day). For once, you questioned Torre’s moves (plural cuz you also questioned him ordering Cano to bunt with “.254 hitter” Melky up next and no, Cano doesn’t bunt on his own) making you a hypocrite because you lambast people on here left and right for questioning Torre yet here you are doing yourself. I guess it’s o.k. for you to question Torre but not others? You’re an egomaniac. Get over yourself and some consistency in your stance on managers and their decisions.
If Torre and the Yankees were concerned about an injury to Mo because you know, 5 outs collected on one day out of 9 was sooooooooooooooooo exhaustive for Mo, then that thinking is just plain idiotic, esp. when he’s used 3-4 days in a row.
The Yankees were concerned with using Mo for more than one inning? You truly are a joke of a sportswriter and blogger.
Mo has been used for > 1 IP numerous times over the years including this one. Check his pitching lines then get back to us with that apologist garbage. And since when can you make a hard, fast rule about using a pitcher for only one inning in practice as well as theory? Since never. With that logic, I guess if Farnsworth got three one-pitch outs in the 8th, he’s out. If Mo was brought in for the 8th and 9th because his worthless-that-night setup men gave up 7 runs to make it 14-10 Yanks then walked the bases loaded, Mo is taken out cuz well, he can pitch only one inning. Gotcha.
A pitcher who’s pitched only 1 2/3 innings in 9 days can give the Yanks 2 IP. He has to or were you not looking at the team’s record and arrogantly thought Oakland had the game with Cleveland in the bag? You saw what Cleveland did to Detroit earlier this year (comeback win in the bottom of the 9th), too bad the Yanks rarely do the same and haven’t without A-Rod. So what if the game is still tied? Cross that bridge when you get to it. What if the game is tied after 17 innings? Who cares that Mo got used at THAT point? If you have to call in Cairo to throw knuckleballs cuz there’s no one left in the pen in the 18th, so be it. And if he walks 4 guys to lose the game, so be it.
“Lets say he bring Rivera to pitch the 9th and 10th innings. Do you really think the Yanks would score a run when they haven’ hit a lick in the past 8 days? Then the 11th comes around and you have to use your bad bullpen anyway.”
this is a terrible argument. basically you are saying b/c the offense is struggling it is better to just concede the game in the 9th inning.
even if they hadn’t scored and proctor blows the game in the 11th, it’s still the right move to bring in Mo.
really, are you saying it would be crazy to think A-Rod could hit a HR in the 10th inning? really?
don’t you have to do everything you can to give him another AB since he is your best chance at winning the game?
Hey guys, I know things look bleak at the moment. Last night’s loss numbers the third or fourth this year that has cost me hours of restful sleep. (Which, of course, begs an obvious question, wholly apart from the Yankees’ fate.)
Still, as my man, Ron Benbow admonished—thanks for plugging my blog incidentally—“We shouldn’t lose faith.� Not just yet anyway.
Trading any of the core player on the team at this juncture reeks of panic. Cano, I concede, is having a middling season thus far. He’s tense and anxious at the plate and swings at every pitch whether in the strike zone or not. As Ron observed, he seems behind in the count in virtually every at-bat, and instead of driving the ball to left and center-field, as he does when he’s thriving, he’s pulling everything to right field.
Still, Cano is the best young player on the Yankees’ major league roster and probably has more potential than any position player in their entire system, save Tabata.
For those searching for hope and light amid this dark malaise, I offer the following:
As we all know, winning begins with quality starting pitching. And if we define a quality start by 6+ innings ceding three runs or less, the Yankees received another one last night; the third quality start on this otherwise woeful road-trip. This bodes well. And if the Yankees can bolster their bullpen and add a bat at first-base, there is no reason this team can’t win 50+ games after the All-Star break.
The bullpen, indeed, has been wretched. But the offense bears its share of blame as well. Bullpen work is taxing enough physically. But when a reliever constantly enters tie and one run games to hold leads, and anticipates that a single mistake will end in disaster, because his offense can’t bail him out, he avoids the strike zone or nibbles on the corners and induces walks. I suspect that Proctor and Bruney fell victim to this the past few games.
The third-hitter in the lineup, whomever Torre decides to put there, also needs to start hitting. Quite frankly, I don’t perceive Matsui a much better option there at the moment than Abreu. Matsui’s mired in a slump every bit as intractable as Abreu, and Matsui doesn’t earn walks with same frequency. (Matusi 28 BBs; Abreu 40 BBs.)
(Ron, I agree with you here as well. Bobby Abreu will have an excellent second-half. The poor guy, evidently, wants to prove himself so badly he’s sabotaging his game. And for all of you who want to trade him or dump him next year, I only ask with whom would you would replace him? Abreu has a one-year option for ’08 and Tabata isn’t ripe as yet.)
(Look at the free-agent options: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....ree_a.html
None of the center-field or right-field free-agents impress me as a better choice, when you consider they each will command long-term contracts. While Abreu, on the other hand, can be had for one more season.)
In the short-term, I would counsel Torre to consider stacking his productive bats. That means batting Damon(if healthy), Jeter, A-Rod, and Posada in succession and not worrying whether lefties and righties alternate. In fact, tonight, against a tough lefty-handed pitcher like Bedard, don’t be surprised if Torre bats Jeter and AROD consecutively, and marshalls his right-handed bats by sitting Cano, playing Cairo at 2nd and Phillips at 1st.
Things look grim right now, I know. But there’s no reason why the Yankees can’t put together succession of streaks in the second-half that mirror the one they went on earlier this month. They have more talent than any of the other wild-card contenders. And the 1995 season should not be too distant a memory to exclude the possibility
Brad, I bet you would be the first to criticize Torre for pitching Cario in the 18th and not Andy Phllips.
Another thing:
You’re a joke to say the Yanks should consider trading Cano,
run off a list of guys who should be traded (Damon, Mussina), and not list Abreu among them. ‘Know what I saw last night which you obviously didn’t or didn’t care to see? I saw a pattern with Abreu: when he slumps, he takes his slump out onto the field (see the ball HE not Melky should’ve had which dropped in front of them). That’s why Pettitte went off. He and I’m sure alot of Yankees including Jeter don’t like how Abreu plays RF like garbage when he’s hitting like that. When Abreu hits, he’s a solid RF. I don’t like that, him, or that kind of player on the Yankees and feel I speak for many others. Assuming he’s making $7.5M or half his $15M salary this year for Games 82-162, the Yanks should offer him and $4.75M (half his remaining salary for the second half and buyout for ’09) to whoever wants him (they clear $4.75M).
It was good to see Pettitte yell and scream last night, shades of Paul O’Neil.
Abreu is an enigma. He was such a great fit last year for the Yankees and this year mostly garbage.
Cash better make sure he rights this ship sometime before he is reporting to Gene Michael next year.
Trading any of the core player on the team at this juncture reeks of panic. Cano, I concede, is having a middling season thus far. He’s tense and anxious at the plate and swings at every pitch whether in the strike zone or not. As Ron observed, he seems behind in the count in virtually every at-bat, and instead of driving the ball to left and center-field, as he does when he’s thriving, he’s pulling everything to right field.
Still, Cano is the best young player on the Yankees’ major league roster and probably has more potential than any position player in their entire system, save Tabata.
Here’s a reason not to jettison Abreu. First of all, the poor guy, evidently, wants to prove himself so badly he’s sabotaging his game. Second, I ask, with whom would you would replace him? Abreu has a one-year option for ’08 and Tabata isn’t ripe as yet. (The Yankees don’t have any other major-league-ready outfielders, not Brett Gardner, Not Bronson Sardinia not either of the Kevins)
Indeed, look at the free-agent options: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....ree_a.html
None of the center-field or right-field free-agents impress me as a better choice, when you consider they each will command long-term contracts. While Abreu, on the other hand, can be had for one more season.
Newsflash there is no chance Abreu will be back next yr under any circumstances…
he will never be back, NEVER……
I hear you, CT_Chris, but I’d prefer we try to play above .500 ball first. I don’t want to wear Mo’ down at all, but I’m not giving up on this year yet and I’d think the years are what’s going to hurt him more than the innings. Meaning, if he’s only got till ’09, let’s say… then use up his innings and stop wasting him on the bench. Win now while we still have the best closer in the game.
Is Cashman planning on doing something this year? My god how can somebody sit on his hands for so long while the ship is sinking. I’m not asking for a blockbuster trade, actually I’d love for Cashman to NOT trade A Prospects like hughes, chamber, tabata, kennedy,etc.
What I’m asking for Cashman to do is some minor league callups. DFA some people, DO SOMETHING even if minor. Show people changes will happen if the course is not fixed.
Something he should of done weeks ago if not months is call up Chris “GREAT” Britton. While he’s down below you might as well call up Shelly Duncan and Edwar Ramirez. Finally trade Farnsworth for whatever, bag of beans? Cool I’m hungry, take em.
Do something Cashman, what in gods name are you waiting for?
Hahaha Chris CT
Another thing II:
When are you, Peter, gonna admit that Torre has lost his ability to successfully manage a bullpen, put together a consistent starting nine/ batting order, set players straight (e.g. tell Mussina that Posada will catch him if Posada doesn’t need the rest like a Wednesday night game after a Tuesday night game, a day off Monday, and a day game Sunday), and keep the players together?
When I see Pettitte going nuts in the dugout, a truly rare occurance I can’t recall ever seeing from Pettitte save in games he got torched, that is an indication that Torre has lost at least some of the players and that’s just not acceptable.
When will you realize someone has to be held accountable for this season and that no one should be able to ride off into the sunset (Torre) or resign (Cashman)? I mean, if the Yankees are eliminated from the playoffs in Game 155, yes, Torre and Cashman should be fired that day/ night and Larry Bowa should manage out the string. If he doesn’t like it, fire him too, get Pena or someone else who will manage. Fire anyone who doesn’t like it. If Torre and Cashman were fired tomorrow, it would not mean the Yanks have no shot at the playoffs. Those two better pray the Yanks don’t make it, or what were they really? Actually, they should pray cuz it’s all on them if the Yanks don’t make it, esp. Cashman. Torre has made so many managerial blunders, he alone is responsible for at least 3 of the 8 games the Yanks are trailing Cleveland by. One of those games was last night’s.
I’m shocked that Cano’s actually listening to Abreu. Abreu’s is cancer in the clubhouse. My advice to Cano, Please don’t listened to Abreu, He’s loser.
I think that Brad needs to state his points without BASHING Pete. This blog is a great place to come and speak your mind, but if you don’t agree with Pete, just say so. You don’t need to say he’s a joke. I love this blog and so do most of the people blogging here.
If you don’t like it, then leave…..
Pete, anyone ask Torre last night why, on the one hand, he asked Cano to bunt in the 9th inning, but not Cairo in the 7th inning?
In the 7th inning, remember, Cabrera was on 3rd and Abreu on 1st with one out. Cairo was 2 for 2 at the time but he’s still the best bunter on the team. In fact, precisely because he was 2 for 2, the Orioles might not have expected it.
Incidentally, can you recall the last time the Yankees did execute a successful squeeze play? I would think if you’re going to try one and surprise your opponent, Cairo is the best player to have at the plate.
Can someone give the Win-loss record when ARod hits a Home Run in a game?
I think its a question of value when it comes to Cano.
Sure, all of us want guys like Mussina and Abreu, chronic underachievers, off the team. But, not a lot of teams are looking to add payroll, and underachievement, to their rosters.
From a value standpoint, Robinson Cano could bring back more in return (in a possible trade) than just about anybody on the roster.
Its why it should be explored, IMO.
Let’s put it this way. I move Cano before I even think about moving Hughes, Kennedy, Chamberlain, Horne, Tabata, or David Robertson (a GREAT young bullpen arm, tearing it up in Charleston).
Let’s examine him as a player.
Speed? Average at best. He’s never going to be a basestealer and he is a so so baserunner.
Defense? Average. Better than last year but, not exactly a Gold Glove defender. He’s adequate. Nobody is going to mistake him for Roberto Alomar.
Offense? This is where we can all disagree the most on him. My opinion? A good, not great, offensive player. No concept of the strikezone, he doesn’t walk, no power, and he just can’t hit with RISP. Even worse with the bases loaded. He’s not getting better. In fact, we could argue he is declining. That’s troubling to me.
.270-.280 hitter, with little power, no speed, low OBP, and no run producing abilities are a dime a dozen re: second basemen around baseball. I just don’t see him as a special player. Just my opinion on him.
IMO, this kid has been burdened by the “Next Rod Carew” statements in a big, big way. I love Jim Kaat as a broadcaster. However, he did that kid no favors evoking the “C” word (Carew) when talking about Robinson Cano.
To paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen, “I have seen Rod Carew play and you (Cano) sir, are no Rod Carew”.
My feeling is, this team has won World Series with Mariano Duncan, Chuck Knoblauch (the BAD Knobby) and Luis Sojo playing second base.
They haven’t won World Series with Alfonso Soriano and Robinson Cano, more talented players than Duncan, Knoblauch and Sojo, playing second base.
My conclusion? Second base is not a “need” position. Give me a guy who plays good D, moves runners over, and just doesn’t make mistakes that costs you games, and I’ll take it. Use the money you will have to pay Cano very soon to upgrade the roster in more important areas.
If Robinson Cano can bring you an upgrade to first base, an arm (‘pen or starter) or the OF, I don’t know how you don’t consider moving him.
Arbitration eligible (I believe) after this season. That makes him a 5 million dollar (or thereabouts) guys in 2008.
Sorry but, he’s not a 5 million dollar player.
I don’t know about his off field pursuits. Like some others, I have heard the rumors. However, without facts, that stuff is meaningless to me. It has no impact on my opinion of him as a player.
However, his decline is alarming and I definitely shop him (if I am the GM) to see what’s out there for him.
Its the prudent thing to do, IMO.
Matt
Ever heard of Ichiro Suzuki or Andruw Jones in CF, Cabrera in RF in 2008? Yeah, that CF-RF really sucks compared to Damon/Cabrera CF Abreu RF (note sarcasm). Cabrera in RF next year alone (no platoon or logjam in the OF) destroys your ludicrous argument that no one can replace Abreu in RF next year and you are crazy if you think the Yankees are picking up Abreu’s $16M club option for 2008 after what he’s done this year which is play like a $3M player.
Trading him would of been the thing to do last year when his value his high. GM’s are not blind, they see what we see.
If this is the real Robinson Cano 270-280 hitter then no one will give up much for him.
Not worth it in my opinion.
There is always the chance he develops a sense of the strikezone. He’s still a kid. Might as well keep one of the few under 30 guys we got.
One last thing, then I finally begin my vacation.
I guess where we have disagreements re: Cano is, I (and I am sure others) don’t see him as a “core” player.
Look around the good teams in baseball. How many of them have “core” players at second base? Not many.
Boston, Anaheim, Detroit, San Diego, the Mets, Cleveland. Just a sampling of teams that are playoff calibur and do not have “core” players at second base.
I don’t see second base as a “core” position and I DEFINITELY don’t see Cano as a “core” player.
Starting pitching, corner OF with power, closer, corner infielder with power, catcher, SS. To me, those are “core” positions that need core players.
Second base? You gotta be REAL special (IMO) to be a “core” guy at that position.
JMO but, I don’t see Cano as that kind of guy.
I am not saying they MUST trade him and I certainly don’t want them giving him away.
But, If I am the GM, he’s definitely not on my untouchable list.
JMHO.
It is mystifying to me that people want to hold Torre accountable when the >$200M worth of payroll on the field is not performing. There is nobody on the bench and the entire bullpen except for Mo and maybe Viz can be counted on to throw strikes.
This is going to come down to the players executing. A-Rod, Jeter and Posada are the only offensive players who have delivered this year. Damon may be an “idiot” but he seems to get it whenever he is quoted and at least he has the class to call himself out for not living up to his role on the team.
Cashman is going to have start being more aggressive reaching into the minor system for help (and make sure that Torre actually lets the young’uns on the field). Last year he did a great job getting value at the deadline for next to nothing, hopefully he can do it again.
Above all, I hope Cash is secure enough to stick to the long-term plan and hold on to young pitching talent and returning sanity to the position player payroll (More Cano, less Giambi).
Gayle, hmmm, Hawk, etc. – another reason to bring in Rivera in a tie is as a challenge to the (Yankee) hitters. If Rivera pitches even part of the 9th, Torre would be effectively saying, “I expect you guys to go out there and take the lead in the top of the 10th.” It’d show both confidence in and an expectation of accountability from the hitters. Keeping him out suggests that Torre didn’t think they (the top of the order!) would be able to do the job in the 10th.
Isn’t the rule of thumb in football to play to tie at home, and to win on the road (e.g. take more chances)?
I don’t advocate firing Joe, but he definitely missed a chance to change the mood of the game in this situation.
I would rather have Dustin Pedrioa than Robinson Cano…
Pedrioa has a fire will to win, Cano’s doesn’t have it.
Dear Fire Torre/Fire Cashman Cabal:
“Scapegoats! Scapegoats! Ice Cold Yankees Scapegoats right here….”
Have any of you scapegoat folks ever managed a group of people in any setting before? Forget baseball, I’ll even credit managing a Waffle House or a MCDonald’s.
How does firing Torre fix Mussina’s and Igawa’s control, Hughes’ ankle and hamstring, Pavano’s arm and Cano’s hitting? How does firing Torre give the cowardly lion (Abreu) a heart, get us a real first baseman, get strikes out of Farnsworth, Myers, Proctor, Vizcaino, Villone, Bruney, Henn and sometimes Mo, get us a backup catcher and find us bench players superior to Basak or Thompson?
And what’s up with firing the GM for a season that is the result of injuries and 6 prior years of bad management philosophy as much as some mistakes he’s made? Nobody’s perfect, but this year is not all his fault. Get real. He is responsible for bringing up Cano and Wang and saving our bacon two years ago. Cash got us Abreu last year (without giving up anything of real value) when he was still good and that helped get us to the playoffs. He’s made mistakes this year, but so did everybody else in MLB. There’s a lot more going on here than just winning this year. Cash is trying to turn the organization around and it may not be possible to do that and still make the playoffs this year.
what are the rumors about Cano off the field?
I am still giving him the benefit of the doubt that his first 2 years were not flukes. He’s shown signs this year of being the hitter he was last year and I don’t think he gets enough credit for his defense. He can look a little lax at times, trying to be too pretty with some things… but he also makes great plays out there, doesn’t make many errors, and has a great arm.
SJ:
I agree: Cano can certainly be traded for the right piece but you can’t give him away. (Cano for Teixeira?)
You’re going on vacation at the right time. Enjoy.
Actually Scott
How about YOU leave? I don’t like it when Peter bashes people for questioning Torre’s moves then he questions them himself. I check this blog for info only, not some guy on a power-egotrip bashing his readers. I called him a hypocrite because he is one. His arguments for why Torre didn’t do this and that in last nights game are a joke and thus he is one cuz he’s supposed to be a sportswriter for a real-deal N.Y.C.-area newspaper, not a Monday Morning Quarterback -or maybe he should get off his high horse and come to grips that he has problems with Torre’s moves like alot of us who want and don’t want Torre fired. He’s just like us or could be if he was fired today/ tomorrow. Yes, if the O’s sweep the Yanks, I want Torre fired -he should be! 36-40, 8 to possibly 10 games behind Cleveland for the wildcard? Enough is enough.
Peter is a big boy who doesn’t need you to rush to his defense. He can come on here and bash me all he wants -I’d prefer to hear his argument why Torre shouldn’t be fired outside the played out “1996, 1998, 1999, and 2000″ and “he manages the clubhouse characters well”. Gee, since when was being a manager living off your past and being a good guy?
Also if the late great Casey Stengel can be fired by the Yankees, Torre who doesn’t shine his shoes and certainly didn’t before managing the Yankees (he didn’t even shine Billy Martin’s shoes before then) can be fired. So there goes the “Torre can’t be fired” garbage.
If anything it shows I struck a nerve in him and made him look at himself in the mirror for once. I hope you do, Peter, cuz you’re no better or worse than any of the others who question Torres moves.
B.t.w. if Peter bashes his readers, he should expect to be bashed. I don’t care if it’s “his blog”. Well without “his readers” he’s typing sh it for only him to read and his blog doesn’t exist save only to him. Perhaps he can eliminate “fire”, “fired”, “fire Torre”, and “(Torre) should be fired” from being posted in comments if he doesn’t like it.
Boy am I glad I didn’t catch the game last night.
I am sure Cashman will make a move soon, but I think he’s waiting until we have a little bit more leverage (i.e. at least a .500 team) which is not saying much.
I wonder if SJ44 is going on vacation with his best buddy A-Rod. Can they get a win before you steal our 3b away?
Re: Cano’s hitting — sounds like he could use a good batting coach. Do we have one?
Brad are you saying we should get Andruw Jones? If so you need to check his stats and come back to us. He is worse than Bobby. I believe last I heard his ba was .220!! Not an upggrade!!
Scott and Brad need to get a room.
am I the only one that doesn’t get Curly’s “SJ44 + A-Rod sittin’ in a tree” jokes?
The Yankees need pitching. They can get Jones, Cameron, Hunter or Rowand. They’d all be fine. Any of them. It doesn’t matter. But they need to start getting some pitchers who throw strikes and miss bats.
SJ44 said the other night that he knows and has had a relationship with A-Rod for over 20 years. Now I think everyone took it as a joke until he kept saying it was really true. Kind of shocking to blow all credibility like that.
Chris NY:
No you’re not the only one who doesn’t get Curly’s dumb SJ/A-Rod b.s.
Imagine the outcry right now if we had Delgado and Andruw on the team????
Wow, missed that… Thanks Anthony.
“Incidentally, can you recall the last time the Yankees did execute a successful squeeze play?”
i think it was a final gamve of spring training. last year or the year before.
I believe everything SJ44 says here. If he says they are best buds, its true in my book. Maybe SJ intro’d ARod to that stripper.
Can someone give the Win-loss record when ARod hits a Home Run in a game?
18-5
Pete,
Respectfully disagree. The reasons are not legit. Rob Neyer from ESPN had this to say. I believe he is right on the mark.
Torre’s bullpen blunderby: Rob Neyer
posted: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 | Feedback | Print Entry
I’m 100 percent sure that Joe Torre is trying to win.
Well, maybe 99 percent sure. I know just enough about quantum physics to know I can’t be 100 percent sure about anything.
But I’m 99 percent sure that Torre is trying to win. After all, someday he’s going to be elected to the Hall of Fame as a manager, and there aren’t many Hall of Fame managers who weren’t really, really trying to win.
You had to wonder last night, though. You had to wonder, while watching Scott Proctor walk home the winning run in the bottom of the ninth inning, with Mariano Rivera never having thrown a single pitch in the game.
As a friend wrote me last night, a few seconds after Corey Patterson trotted home with that winning run,
It’s just insane. There is no logical reason why, facing a situtation WHERE YOU CANNOT GIVE UP A RUN, OR YOU LOSE (and fall two games under .500), you would choose Proctor over Rivera. This is managing to a statistic — the save — rather than to win. According to Torre’s logic, you use Proctor when you simply can’t give up a run, and you use Rivera when you can. Absurd.
Indeed. I’ve been harping on this since (at least) Game 4 of the 2003 World Series, when the Yankees lost a 12-inning game and Rivera never left the bullpen. But Torre keeps making the same mistake, over and over and over again.
Last Saturday in San Francisco, the Yankees lost a 13-inning game. Rivera never left the bullpen. In fact, every relief pitcher pitched except the Yankees’ best relief pitcher.
Granted, Rivera had thrown 20 pitches the night before. So we’ll cut Torre some slack there. But last night? Rivera hadn’t pitched at all since that 20-pitch outing last Friday. Last night he was as well-rested as you’d ever want your closer to be. No slack on this one.
In Torre’s autobiography he wrote, “I’m more concerned about winning the game than trying to cover my butt.”
Really, Joe? Next time you’re on the road and the game’s tied in the ninth, prove it.
If you’re going to go on blogs and say that you are friends with players especially A-Rod and you know all about his contract situation you have to expect to take some ribbing about it. Can’t take the heat, stay out the kitchen as they say.
Torre cannot defend that decision. Rivera hasn’t pitched in what seems like two weeks. And now when he comes in and gets shelled we’re going to hear stories like “he needs work”
Give me a break
I’m having drinks with Jeter and the Miss World contestants.
Things aren’t over yet. I’ve seen worse teams come back and win a WC spot. The ’06 Astros? The ’03 Marlins? The Twins came back last year. The A’s every season.
Baseball is a grind. They just need to start grinding out wins.
For those of you who thought Shea Hillenbrand was a good idea and that his personality was a non issue, this from sportsline.com’s rumor mill:
[Shea Hillenbrand wants out if he's not going to get more playing time. "If I'm not going to play here, give me enough respect to trade me or get rid of me. I think I deserve that." Hillenbrand told the Los Angeles Times. "I'm a quality player in the prime of my career. To go from playing every day to not playing at all, it's very disheartening." The Yankees and a few other teams have expressed interest in Hillenbrand but his high salary and low production make him a difficult player to move.]
Quality player in the prime of my career?
Who thought Hillenbrand was a good idea??
murphdog should change his name to captain obvious.
How hard would it be to grab a Dmitri Young or Scott Hatteberg?
Everyone anti-Yankee can come out of the woodwork now. It may be their only time because this team won’t play this bad for long. You can count on that. Get your shots in while the goings good.
Can we put together one good game here? That’s all I ask. Maybe a quick lead. Some strong SP. Maybe actually see Mo for mop up duty!
For all the anti-cashman people out there. from jon heyman:
A person who’s recently talked to the Yankees said they have told the White Sox in trade talks involving Mark Buehrle that not only is their top pitching prospect Philip Hughes off limits, so are Joba Chamberlain, Ian Kennedy and Alan Horne. According to a recent article in Baseball Prospectus, the Yankees now have the best corps of pitching prospects in baseball. That’s a nice turnaround for Cashman and scouting director Damon Oppenheimer.
Let’s hope Cashman is secure enough in his job and loves the franchise enough to hold to that.
If you try to grab Dmitri Young, make sure you lift with the legs – - – that man is pushing 275 lbs.
Seriously, Bowden is a professional moron (reference Cold Pizza) and has a habit of holding out for too much and getting nothing. (Soriano)
Curly, you can make fun of SJ44 for saying he knows A Rod, but there is no way for him to prove it to you and no way for you to prove he’s lying. Why would it be so impossible that one person in this world knows another, albeit a famous one? Anyway, I have found SJ44 to be credible, so I bleive him when he says he knows A Rod. You on the other hand need to build up some credibility for us to believe you when you tell us SJ does not know him. My two cents.
Thanks Roxy, interesting to see Alan Horne on the no trade list.
I’m not saying he’s a liar. When have I said hes not telling the big ole truth??? I really believe him! They are best friends. I just wonder where they are going on vacation together.
How can one have any credibility saying they are friends with A Rod? That’s too funny for words. This dude 8 years old or something?
well, we better all jump down pete’s throat because he doesn’t candy-coat hughes news (unfortunate rhyme there) and he both defends and criticizes torre. some moves torre makes can be defended, some can not. the manager’s either always right or always wrong, is that what i’m to believe? good stuff, guys. this isn’t the civil war. sometimes torre makes the right call and it blows up on him. last night, he made the wrong call and it blew up on him. pete’s a journalist, he’s got every right to express his opinion on his blog. in my opinion, the blog is always consistently entertaining and informative. i’m not sure what more you could ask from a free service.
as for sj44, he’s friends with a-rod, he’s not friends with a-rod, who cares? what, exactly, does he stand to gain by lying about it to a bunch of people who didn’t really like him to begin with? even if he is lying about it (i doubt he is), why fixate on it? tired of ignoring the fact that the offense can’t do the fundamental things and the bullpen can’t throw strikes, so it’s easy to take shots at somebody you’ll never have to face in person? classy stuff.
2B i’d rather have than cano right now: polanco, pedroia, jose lopez, iguchi, howie kendrick, brandon phillips, brian roberts, freddy sanchez, dan uggla, b.j. upton, chase utley, and maaaaybe ian kinsler, but let’s leave him off. so, without kinsler, that’s 11. wow, you guys were right. no way i can think of a dozen 2B i’d rather have than cano. my mistake.
i’m not saying trade cano for spare parts, but let’s no kid ourselves, he’s regressing at a rapid rate. if they can hang on to he and cabrera and get some production out of both, great. i’m all for the team holding on to young assets. but if dealing cano and/or cabrera can make this team better in the long run, i’m all for it.
I haven’t heard too much about Horne. Anyone got anything on him?
have cashman in charge of player development and a demotion to assistant g.m. he does seem to get good young talent . its his major-league ready deals that are highly dubious . espn has a good article on pavano and s.i. has a good article on the yanks manager situation .
Like any GM would take Uggla, Sanchez, Phillips, Roberts, Kinsler, Lopez, Polanco, or Pedroia over Cano.
Some people here are out of their minds.
Like saying Cano is rgeressing at a rapid rate. Apparently you don’t know how pro baseball works and how pitchers and teams make adjustments to a young great hitter. But hey hes terrible. trade him for Brandon Phillips!
What a kook.
When Cano goes 2-4 tonight will people still want to trade him? There is a reason fans are fans. And front office people are in the front office. They don’t listen to fans. Thankfully with all the garbage here.
Bloomy:
Captain Obvious? Oh, ahahahahahahahahaha! Wow! That’s a good one. I’ll certainly take that under advisement.
Hey dipstick: I went to another website and found a note I thought was interesting about Hillenbrand. More than a few contributors here had suggested more than a few times a couple of weeks ago that the Yanks pick up Hillenbrand. (But maybe you missed that or hadn’t learned to read yet)
Anyway, I cut it out and pasted it here to share it with everybody.
But that sure doesn’t top your effort. No, you read my post and come up with a new name for me. What a great and original contribution to the blog. You really raised our collective baseball intelligence with that one. I look forward to more of your precious wit and priceless insights, Bloomy. Keep it coming.
Your friend,
Captain Obvious
I wouldn’t mind moving Cano but only if they got back a young stud who’s not close to free agency. I wouldn’t even give him up for Willis right now.
You’re talking about a 2b with 3 in the order potential.
Let’s not throw away our 24 yr old all star 2b because of a rough start by the team. To even hint that the bad start is his fault is ludicrous.
Murphydog certainly has a few bugs up his tushy.
Aren’t the Yankees supposed to try to find more young stud position players? Not trade them, right?
I got called “dipstick”. Vicious, murphdoggy! You are out of line!
But I’m glad you took my advice and changed your name to Captain Obvious. What’s next? Saying we should get a new backup catcher???? Thanks, Captain, glad you listen so well.
There is no one I want to see on first less than Shea Hillenbrand.
First base should not be manned by Cairo. He’s a fine UTL player.
He is not a starting 1b on a good team.
Bring back Tino!
Bloomy:
Can’t wait until you post something other than your review of other’s posts. Lay it on me, Bloomer. I await enlightenment.
It’s all Cano’s fault.
Now trade him.
Don’t worry MurphydoggCapObvious, I will refrain from posting anything about how we should avoid Hillenbrand at 1b and how the Yankees need a backup catcher.
I won’t do it!!! Thanks again Cap.
I think I’d give my left arm for Tino right now.
Brad H. Thanks for the response about Abreu.
Perhaps, I didn’t make my point clear. I don’t recommend exercising Abreu’s option because I think Cabrera-Abreu necessarily makes for a better outfielding tandem than Ichiro-Cabrera or Jones-Cabrera.
To the contrary, I recommend exercising Abreu’s option because it would save the Yankees for having to encumber themselves with yet another exorbitant, long-term contract for a player over 30yrs of age. Jones turns 31 in April of ’08 and probably will command a 5-7 yr contract. Ichiro turns 34 in October of ’07 and could command 4 years or more. (If either could be signed for 2-3 years or less, I might agree with you.)
Keep in mind that following the ’08 season, CC Sabbathia Johan Santana will be free-agents. And that the money that Ichiro and Jones’ contracts would exact otherwise might be spent more efficiently and productively on signing one or both lefty pitchers.
Keeping Abreu for one more year and promoting Tabata in ’09 to play right-field is, in the end, more cost-efficient and allows the Yankees’ greater financial flexibility to spend money where it will benefit them the most.
Why couldn’t Carlos Pena play like this last yr for us????
“Things aren’t over yet. I’ve seen worse teams come back and win a WC spot. The ‘06 Astros? The ‘03 Marlins? The Twins came back last year. The A’s every season.”
06 Astros didn’t make it to the playoffs. I guess u r refering to 05 Astros. They had Oswalt, Pettite & Clemens won Cy Young that year
03 Marlins had Josh Beckett. And Dontrelle Willis who was a rookie that year, came up in may and went 14-6
Twins had Cy Young Winner Johan Santana and Fransisco Lariano. Even though Lariano didn’t pitch the whole season he was like 11-2 from May 19th – July 30th.
And A’s had Barry Zito, Haren & Harden for the last couple of years.
And 2007 Yanks have Clemens pitching with 5.09 ERA and he has yet to face any AL Teams. Andy Pettite & Wang r the only reliable starting pitchers who can carry this team.
Unless Abreu gets hurt, they’ll pick up that option.
I think they’d much rather pay him one yr than Jones for 8.
Worst case, you trade him. No downside.
“Like any GM would take Uggla, Sanchez, Phillips, Roberts, Kinsler, Lopez, Polanco, or Pedroia over Cano.”
VORP
Cano 2.1
Kinsler 12.8
Lopez 9.4
Pedroia 16.6
Phillips 15.2
Polanco 16.0
Roberts 32.4
Sanchez 3.0
Uggla 22.2
I think the only GM who wouldn’t take their guy over Cano is Dave Littlefield.
My point is that teams can come back and win. Which you agreed with nyy.
And any team with A-Rod, Jeter, Mo, Wang, Clemens, and Andy P is not out of it.
It’s for Fun Facts about Miggy Cairo
Keep ‘em! Trade ‘em!! Amaze your friends!!!
Cairo has come to the plate 43 times with runners on, with a total of 63 runners on base. 29 of those runners were on 1st, 23 on 2nd and 11 on 3rd.
He’s driven in 5 of those runners. 3 from 2nd and 2 from 3rd.
That’s 7.9%.
That’s the worst on the Yankees and it’s not close.
No one else is below 10%.
That’s right, Miguel Cairo is worse than Wil Nieves, who’s driven in 11.8%.
Josh Phelps was at 14.9%
Of the 172 players in the AL with at least 75 abs, Cairo 165th out of 172 in OBI%, ahead of only Nick Punto, Marco Scutaro, Paul Bako, Luis Rodriguez, Dioner Navarro and Pablo Ozuna.
Good thing Joe likes his approach at the plate …
right. hang on to cano, but let’s chase milton bradley and elijah dukes. or buehrle. or, hey, let’s have barry bonds DH next year. and andruw jones in center.
if they hang on to cano, great. he’s a talented kid. i’m just saying he shouldn’t be untouchable. they can find a productive 2B. somebody who can hit situationally, play good defense, and do the little things. they’re not terribly hard to come by.
but, yeah, his struggles this year are all about pitchers making the adjustment. that’s why guys like jeter and posada are hitting better now than they did when they were rookies. that’s why every talented major leaguer has a monster rookie year and then never reaches those heights again. you guys are right. i clearly don’t understand the game.
Take Cano for one game or his career???
Dummy.
A 24 yr old who succeeded in NY and with hands like Rod Carew.
yankssox,
nevermind the numbers. clearly, you and i do not understand the game of baseball.
Why not follow the lead of people here and cut Cano.
He stinks. His VOURPwhatever is low. Its all on him why we stink. And that SS stinks too. His def rnage is terrible. The stats tell me so.
Since Cano’s change his number and give it to Roger, He never been the same hitter .
i haven’t seen a single post saying this season is all cano’s fault. not here, not anywhere.
but don’t bother actually reading the posts. just exaggerate everything for the sake of creating another senseless internet argument. now i remember exactly why i stopped posting here.
Why would you not trade Cano now, his value is at his highest you can get plenty of second baseman who play average defense, have average speed, and have an OPS of around .700-.800.
Don’t let his age fool you, how many young players with bad plate discipline just learn overnight how to take walks. Jose Reyes is the only name that comes to mind, and this kid is no Jose Reyes.
Trade him now for Teixeira and move Cairo to 2nd and you have a much stronger team.
People need to stop sweating pedroia after 3 months in the majors. How many of you that want to trade Cano would have said so last year? None.
He’s having a bad year so all of a sudden he’s washed up. Give the KID a chance to come out of it.
As for SJ/A-rod, who cares. Agree with him or not, he speaks from intelligence and while he does seem to have ZERO optimism, he states facts more so than just opinions and speaks like an intelligent human being. Can he know arod, of course. Can he be lying, of course. But what did he stand to gain, proving some other anonymous internet blogger wrong? Doesn’t make sense and who cares anyway.
After reading my post, there is no way Texas would make that deal.
Question to all you Cano lovers
How does a GM not trade a 1b who is at the end of his contract for the next Rod Carew?
Because Cano isn’t the next Rod Carew so please stop using that comparison.
YanksSox, his value was higher last year. But getting someone like Tex is the only type of trade I’d be ok with regarding Cano. Except for the fact that we may not need to let go of Cano to get Tex.
Pedroia and Cano are very different players. Pedroia could regress to batting .270 like Cano is now and he would still have a better OBP than Cano had last year.
I don’t fault Joe for bringing in Proctor to start the 9th. But after Proctor caught the bunt pop-up, something happened. Not that he was doing great before then, but he either hurt something or got the wind knocked out of him or something happened. Only way to explain NOT throwing to 2nd. Then he walked the next two batters. How do you not see that from the dugout? How do you not change pitchers when the guy out there can’t find the strike zone and a walk will lose the game? That’s what I don’t get.
Just a random thought,
The Bottom of the 9th can be treated as the Bottom of the 8th in a tie game away from Yankee Stadium. If Torre can’t use Proctor in this situation, when can he use Proctor. Who do you trust in the 8th inning in a tie game.
I agree he should have gone to Mariano, but if you can’t trust Proctor in this situation, than that means the only guy in the pen you trust is Mo.
In conclusion, a deal must be done to solidify the pen.
“than that means the only guy in the pen you trust is Mo.”
bingo. that’s been the case all year, except in april, when you couldn’t even trust mo.
Pedroia better than Cano?
That is def a Sox fan talking that.
Why are Sox fans posting here? Do you need a life? You’re in first place. Please keep ruining the karma. I beg you.
kasey i went to your site. your music? keep the day job.
So Sox fans aren’t allowed to discuss the Yankees because that makes us trolls with no lives. Right.
Hey someone on here has to weigh down the other side of the scale of Yanks fans who say
“We’re fine with Melky, Cano, Cairo, Phillips, Nieves, Igawa”
“We can easily sweep the Orioles”
“Just wait til the All Star Break, after that we will change from a sub .500 team to a 50+ win team (.650+)”
Basically without us ‘trolls’ and SJ this board would be all about how ‘great’ the yanks are this year.
“kasey i went to your site. your music? keep the day job.”
thanks for the feedback. always appreciated.
hey murphydog-
there sure are some testy new people on here lately. captain oblivious would be a good tag for some of them.
i’m still thinking cashman is in over his head being totally in control. in any organization when things spiral out of control, someone has to step up and take charge. that’s what leadership is all about. i just don’t think cashman has that kind of leadership in him. the only thing to go by is results. he’s clearly not getting them. trading sheffield to a team that the yankees have to beat this year was a brain dead move that’s come back to hurt the yankees. he’s just done too many moves that lack common sense. i do not want him running the new yankees when they emerge.
as someone here said, director of minor league personnel sounds good to me. anything else and he’s in over his head.
What the Yanks need is not more players or fire Torre or whatever.
They need to all start playing better. Together. As a team.
Yes. Being a Sox fan and being on a Yankee blog makes you a troll with no life. That is exactly it. I know Sox fans are brain dead and couldn’t have a solid discussion besides anything except how great Ben Afleck career is but stick to your own sites.
just calling it like i see it, kasey. its like solid karaoke.
“just calling it like i see it, kasey. its like solid karaoke.”
that’s cool with me. there are plenty of artists/records i don’t dig.
Baseball Gods,
Can we please get a W tonight so the negative people and the trolls leave?
Thank you.
thanks kasey. keep trying though.
“Yes. Being a Sox fan and being on a Yankee blog makes you a troll with no life.”
What does going on Yankee sites just to police the trolls make you?
If they don’t get a power hitter soon, this soon is over.
Im the King Cop. So all trolls and Sox fans leave.
Good enough for ya?
“The Bottom of the 9th can be treated as the Bottom of the 8th in a tie game away from Yankee Stadium.”
actually it can’t. if a team scores in the bottom of 8th, the game is not over. it’s that simple.
Pedroia better than Cano?
That is def a Sox fan talking that
Or, anyone with eyballs. I’m a lifelong Yankee fan, and watching Pedroia play is like watching old time baseball, and it’s pretty refreshing. Yeah, the sample size is small, but so is Cano’s. I think at the time, you get better defense with Pedroia and a call at the plate. Everyone is right though, Cano is highly overrated and should be considered if the opportunity presents itself to Cashman. He’s no Rod Carew, and those of you who continue to use that retarded comparison clearly never say Carew’s bat control or hand speed. That’s like calling Chad Pennington the next John Elway because they both throw footballs – it isn’t going to happen, and if it was, we’d know by now.
If they don’t get a power hitter soon, this soon is over
Really? You think they need another hitter? Why, because getting big hitters has worked so well to date?
2003 – lost series.
2004 – lost ALCS
2005 – lost round 2
2006 – lost round 1
2007 – .500 at the break… see the progression in an era when they’ve put “big hitters” over pitching, and defense from top to bottom?
I want nothing to do with another huge contract for a big hitter. Pitching, man. Pitching.
Have to agree with Hawk. The A’s have no big hitters and seem to get the same results if not better than the Yankees each year. The Angels had one big hitter when they won the WS, Marlins had none, Cardinals had a half, could argue a full….
Pitching, Pitching, Pitching, Pitching…. then defense, defense, defense, defense…Offense, just consistent and not self reliant on the long ball. Sting together several singles and doubles, it is more damaging than Home Runs.
Cairo belong in Egypt, not playing first for the lost in the wilderness Bombers of of yesterday.