Today in The Journal News
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jul 12, 2007 
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The Yankees have a hill to climb the rest of the year but at least the schedule is favorable.
Here at lovely JFK International Bus Station waiting for my flight to Tampa. Taking the time to look over my iPod “flight” playlist. The idea to fall asleep and stay asleep. So there’s some jazz, some mellow Eagles stuff, Susan Tedeschi, Lucinda Williams, etc. No Wu-Tang Clan or Clash on this one.
I used to fall asleep to “Dark Side Of The Moon”, and it gave me the weirdest, trippiest dreams
).
Hope you have some good tunes to get you thru the worst stadium in baseball.
is the trop the place where Sterling always complains about the loud PA system?
When Phil Hughes returns, count on the Yankees seeing him having a very serious mentor ….Roger. He values Roger’s comments and will listen to every word of advice. Also, the Yankees will watch the D-Rays’ Ty Wigginton closely over the next 4 games in St. Pete. His versatility can be a plus and he can hit.
It might be Marc, since they need to can noise since there isn’t any.
I know during the Met series they had the volume turned all the way up.
Wigginton wouldn’t be bad off the bench. At this point a bag of balls wouldn’t be bad. They need another two bats. Not to mention a backup catcher. If you’re not going to find one who can hit at least have one that is top notch defensively.
Yes Marc,
That’s the place. Horrible stadium, brutally loud sound system blaring awful music, and a doomed franchise. Baseball’s black hole.
i’d agree, forget the schedule, the yankees need to win games, they’ve proven they can take no one for granted this year – next 27 games i guess they need to go 20-7 and maybe even better for this season to have any remeaining meaning
Actually the next 29 games should be goruped together including a Tampa double header and finishing the Balt game. So I think 22-7 should be the goal. Get us to 64-50. To be honest though at some point we need a long streak like 9 out of 10, 12 out 14 again.
It is better to brace ourselves for no October lights at the Stadium this year.
Hope for the best; plan for the worst. Not a bad way to go.
Next 30 Yankees’ games, 23-7, PRICELESS !!!
I have a place near “The Trop” (Palm Harbor), but I won’t go there unless the Yanks are in town. The stadium is in the middle of what looks like an abandoned industrial park near the worst section of St Petersburg. Other than one or two sports bars there is literally nothing to do outside the stadium there. The team has continually tinkered with the inside of the stadium with flashy, superficial changes, but it really is just putting lipstick on a pig. To me it’s like watching a ballgame played inside an oversized Sam’s Club. However, If they can ever get their current crop of prospect pitchers to mature, along with the 3 good ones they currently have then we will see if baseball can be a success in TB. If they can’t draw more than 15-20K a game with a winning team though, they are doomed.
There was a lot of discussion yesterday about the presence of Red Sox fans on this blog. The inference was made that Red Sox fans don’t have a life and that Yankee fans would never go on a Sox site. I was just on a Red Sox site and read the following post from a Yankee fan:
OH YEAH!!!!!!! Red S-U-X got swept, I love it!!!!!!! This team isn’t nearly as good as most people thought. The Yanks are still under .500, but it will only take one or two bad streaks by the S-U-X, and one or two win streaks by the Yanks, and they will be in it again breathing down the S-U-X neck. I can hardly wait for “Boston Massacre III” to happen again. The way the S-U-X have been playing this season it’s most likely it will happen. The Yanks aren’t dead yet!!!!!
Go Yanks!!!! Go Yanks!!!! Go Yanks!!!!
Gotta agree with Wouter, DSOTM–or any Floyd–is great to fall asleep to. As is Radiohead’s OK Computer, which is probably my all-time favorite.
As for the Yanks and their favorable schedule, a lot has sure been made of how easy the next 44-ish games will be, but as others may have said I can’t help but remember that so far they’ve played better baseball vs good teams than bad teams this year. Hopefully that will all change starting tonight. Well, partially change that is..we still want good baseball vs good teams too!
Going to see Hughes pitch at Trenton tomorrow, can’t wait! I’m excited to see Brett Gardner as well since he was on the DL last time I went. And speaking of the minors, does anyone know when and/or why Kevin Whelan was sent down to Single-A? He looked very good when I saw him in May so I’m curious…
#29 Kei Igawa | SP..REC 2-2 | SV 0 | ERA 7.14 | WHIP 1.61…This guy can NOT be allowed to pitch for the Yankees on July 16th as scheduled. We need to bring up SOMEBODY from the Minors to take his spot until Hughes is ready OR make a trade right now. Cashman will look like a fool trotting somebody out there that is an ESTABLISHED BUM with an ERA of 7.14. In fact, maybe Cashman himself could pitch that day. I doubt that he would do much worse then Igawa !
Agreed, Alan. Was looking at some of our minor league guys’ stats yesterday and saw that Jeff Kennard is on the 40 man roster. Why isn’t Jeff Marquez or Alan Horne on it? I’d much rather either one of them or even Clippard start in place of Igawa. Clippard has had his issues this year even in AAA but at least with him on the mound there’s a CHANCE you’ll get 5-6 innings of 1 or 2 run ball…
Smart caller just on WFAN suggested A Rod insist the Yankees take care of Jorge and Mo before agreeing to a deal. That would put the PR back in A Rod’s camp.
the 40-man roster doesnt necessarily reflect organization’s best players and prospects. i think that is a system to protect players who have acquired a certain amount of time in the minor leagues, and players arent added to the 40-man just because their stock as a prospect has risen until they have to either be protected from other teams or they are called up to the big league club.
just me, but i wouldnt touch any of those arms down at Trenton for the rest of the year and build confidence. let them just play out the season, recognize they are there for the future, and invite them to battle in spring training next season.
If you are discussing mellow Eagle tunes, I recommend adding “Sad Cafe”. Though it was on their massive-selling Best of Volume 2, it is still a rather unknown, but GREAT song. And very mellow; perfect for sleeping along to.
“Smart caller just on WFAN suggested A Rod insist the Yankees take care of Jorge and Mo before agreeing to a deal. That would put the PR back in A Rod’s camp.”
This what the A-rod camp will indeed do. After it is all said in this will be nothing more than PR chess game between the Yankee front office and the A-rod camp.
Oh yes…BE SURE that the Smart Caller just on WFAN will have NAILED IT….The A-Rod Camp I AM SURE is stalking that Radio Station for ideas…and GOOD THING TOO ! ( sarcasm intended )
Scott Boras is great at what he does, you can’t deny that.
Having said as much, he is the Satan of agents.
I predict that A-Rod and Boras elect to not negotiate during the season, thus thwarting and ending his tenure in pinstripes. What needs to happen on the Yankees side is some kind of monetary offer that any sane man would accept. Say a 5 year extension worth $150 million. If he turns that down, there is no way he wants to stay in NY.
At that point, the Yankees should ask him to agree to a trade and get something in return.
Boras won’t negotiate with Yankees before season ends
ESPN.com news services
Updated: July 12, 2007, 11:10 AM ET
After the New York Yankees on Wednesday indicated they would break from tradition and negotiate during the season with Alex Rodriguez on a contract extension, his agent moved in quickly to define what it would take to keep the superstar third baseman playing in New York.
And that would be unprecedented millions per season.
In a telephone interview with the New York Post, Scott Boras said Rodriguez assuredly will become Major League Baseball’s first $30 million-a-year player.
However, Boras said he will not take up the Yankees’ offer to negotiate before the season ends.
“We are not going to be negotiating during the season,” Boras said. Boras insisted he could see no way that strategy will change, saying “This is Alex’s decision. This has been his policy, and I fully expect this to continue to be his policy.”
( AGAIN, BORAS SHOWS HIS ARSE ! IF A-ROD WANTS TO NEGOTIATE, A-ROD WILL NEGOTIATE ! BORAS CAN PRETEND HE IS A TOTAL PUPPETEER, BUT THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT FACTUAL ! )
Larry and SATAN is good at what he does, too !
what I meant was:
Larry,
,,,,and SATAN is good at what he does, too !
( I did not mean to lump Larry and SATAN into the same group…YIKES….I really need to slow down when I type ! )
HA! You had me confused their for a second.
Thanks for the clarification, though I figured you meant as much.
I can respect the desire to avoid negotiations in the middle of the season…it could be an unwelcome distraction. On the flip side, I want to say that the Yankees are bending an old rule to show A-Rod that he is important to the organization and part of the future.
Surely he understands that the Yankees will not involve themselves in a bidding war at seasons end…
You rep the Wu, Peter?
would it surprise anyone if the yanks get blanked by James Shields tonight?
“IF A-ROD WANTS TO NEGOTIATE, A-ROD WILL NEGOTIATE ! BORAS CAN PRETEND HE IS A TOTAL PUPPETEER, BUT THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT FACTUAL !”
Agreed. ARod isn’t some naive backwoods rookie. He’s a star player with millions in endorsements who, if I’m not mistaken, has a lot of business ventures in Miami in the offseason. He’s nobody’s fool, he knows that Boras wants what’s best for Boras, not what’s best for ARod. He isn’t just going to eat everything Boras feeds him. He is smart enough to recognize the best move for himself and take it.
would it surprise anyone if there wasn’t at least one Negative Nancy on here before every game talking about how we are gonna lose?
Rattachewy …………..NO CHANCE that happens tonight…Yankees will score AT LEAST SEVEN…..BOOK IT !
BBB…NO CHANCE to avoid Negative Nancies !!!….they are EVERYWHERE !!! (wink)
i guess we’ll see. it’s little david vs. the old, slow, and worn out goliath.
Of course Boras will say he wont negotiate. Thats negotiation! He’s very good at his job and the more he says to CashMan that he doesnt want to hear him the higher the offer from the Yanks will get. They’ll be negotiating. You can count on that. Wheather a deal gets done or not is something all together different.
Rattachewy Nancy,
Pettite will come up HUGE and Tampa will play like Tampa. Nice analogy though….NOT !
BBB,
I assume you are insinuating that A-Rod knows that the best move for him to make is staying with the Yankees.
I am not sure I’d agree that he thinks that, but I do agree that he knows what Boras is about.
This is going to create some serious waves and when you think about it, is it really worth it to the team to create this kind of distraction when they insist that they are not out of the race?
I’ll bet 250 million dollars that A-Rod TELLS Boras to hammer out a deal NOW ! ( let me find my checkbook… )
“Agreed, Alan. Was looking at some of our minor league guys’ stats yesterday and saw that Jeff Kennard is on the 40 man roster. Why isn’t Jeff Marquez or Alan Horne on it?”
so you want to burn an option year and start Horne’s major league service clock for 1-2 starts until Hughes is ready?
oh I forgot that andy petit has been automatic lights out.
I keep looking for rumors that the Yanks are going to be dumping chumps like Farnsworth, Myers, Vizcaino, etc., but I’m not seeing anything. Am I to assume from this that Cashman intends to keep this entire team intact for the rest of this year? Seems to me it would be prudent to get rid of some dead weight and let the kids (at least in terms of relief pitchers) have a shot throughout the rest of this year. Seems to me, as the standings are right now, there’s no time like the present to give the young guys a quality audition (while giving some of the useless veterans the boot!). I guess Cashman has a different perspective on this, though…
so you want to burn an option year and start Horne’s major league service clock for 1-2 starts until Hughes is ready?
I agree
BTW who is Keff Kennard?
Does anyone want to bet against Boras? He’s going to get that $32 mill. a year from the Yanks (for A-Rod) before this season is out…Mark my words! And the Yanks will then not win another championship until A-Rod is gone…
To devote so much money and so much attention to a single player is folly.
A-Rod isn’t going to negotiate during the season http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne.....;type=lgns which I suspect is his way of not causing issues, looking greedy, and killing Mo and Jorge midseason contract talk.
I feel this looks good on both sides that they will come to an agreement for some kind of extension.
“I keep looking for rumors that the Yanks are going to be dumping chumps like Farnsworth, Myers, Vizcaino, etc., but I’m not seeing anything. Am I to assume from this that Cashman intends to keep this entire team intact for the rest of this year? ”
why would you assume that? you have absolutely no idea who Cashman is talking to or about.
have you noticed over the past few years that when the yankees make a move, it happens very quickly with very little rumors beforehand?
cashman has mastered the art of playing his cards close to his chest.
but i guess since you haven’t seen it on mlbtraderumors.com, who are basically never right anyway, then it’s not happening?
“To devote so much money and so much attention to a single player is folly.”
kindof like how the yankees never won with that overpaid nuisance Reggie Jackson.
As I’m sure I’ve said way too many times, I am currently in Europe. I flew from NY to Manchester, Manchester to Paris, Paris to Nottingham and then took a train to London from there.
I paid no attention to the people on the NY plane as they are equally NYers and Brits on that one. Howver, I have noticed the following Yankees apparel:
Manchester to Paris: it was a very small plane, but there was a French kid wearing a #22 Cano tshirt.
While in Paris I saw a girl in a pink Yankees hat and a woman in a Matsui tshirt.
When I landed in the Manchester airport I saw 2 separate young men in Yankees hats. I know one wasn’t American, not sure about the others.
I haven’t been to that many places in London since I’m here for academic reasons, but I have seen quite a bit of Yankees swag. I overheard some folks in Oxford talking about the all-star game (it was aired here for those who have enough money to stay ina hotel, not a lowly dorm, like myself).
This may not interst anyone else, but I find it interesting that I’ve seen ALL this Yankees stuff, but not one piece of clothing/apparel for any other team, baseball or not. Either people really like NY and don’t really know that the interlocking NY is a team symbol, or the Yankees are taking over the world!
Do any of you agree that if A-Rod dumped Boras and signed with the Yankees that A-Rod would be crazily celebrated in NY?
Dude would become a giant.
I’d love to see that. Funny thing is, he could pick any number of agents and still get paid obscene amounts of money. Hell, Arn Tellem could get him at least $30 million a year.
A-rod would never be celebrated in NY under any circumstance
ok…like this year? he isn’t being celebrated in NY?
Larry–people are still finding ways to not celebrate him (i.e. all the crap in Toronto, his wife, etc.)
You guys really think its smart to play ONE player $33 million/year over 6 or 7 years?
Really, what you’re saying then is $45 Million/year because of the luxary tax for a player that’s not even a proven winner.
This is the right move?
Hey Pete
From what I have read around the web, there are several things going on that seem contradictory or at the very least – curious and was wondering if you could clear it up or had any insight…
Since the Yankees decided to open negotiations with the intent of extending Arod, I’ve seen two opinions. 1) Arod thinking it’s “Cool – I love the Yankees.” (as he’s said over and over since ST, “Love New York”, “Wanna be a Yankee”) and a deal would get done for around the $32mil per range … and 2) Boras saying that his client has repeatedly stated that they would not negotiate during the season and that his focus is on getting back into (and winning) the race. Is this a fact or a front (Boras trying to gain leverage)? If the Yanks throw an opening salvo of 5/$160 – does Boras/Arod start negotiating or just throw out that “not now, i’m trying to win” BS line (and effectively state – I’m done being a Yankee)? Which do you think will play out over the next few weeks?
Also, it would seem to be better for Cashman to open negotiations to the public and let everyone know what they’re offering so Boras can’t claim unfair deals – would you agree?
I’m just curious – what makes a proven winner? Winning a world series? So does that mean Doug Mientkiewicz is a proven winner (winning one with the 04 RedSox)? What about Tim Wakefield? Ken Griffey Jr. hasn’t won a world series – so he’s not a proven winner? What about Travis Hafner (who everyone believes to be one of the best pure hitters in baseball)? He’s never won a WS ring either. Neither has Johan Santana? But who here wouldn’t give him $30 mil a year to be a Yankee?
Again, just curious.
hmmm –
Yep, Reggie was the sole reason the Yanks won those championships. Guys like Piniella, Munson, Chambliss, Guidry, etc., etc. were just carrying his jock the whole time, right? Oh, by the way, let’s take a much more up-to-date example…The Giants have really piled up the championships by focusing on Barry, haven’t they?
As for what Cashman is doing…No, you’re right, I don’t know exactly what he’s up to, and, unlike SJ44, I don’t have any personal friends in the Yankee organization…So, of course I don’t have any “inside information.” That’s exactly why, like most every fan, I have to scan what the media puts out for information about my team. Guess I can’t conjecture, though…That apparently makes someone a fool in your book. To me, it’s just being a fan, but whatever…
One other factor in our favor, regardless of how eveil Boras is perceived around here is that Boras actually has a very strong working relationship with the Yankees. That doesn’t mean that A Rod will give the Yankees a discount, but Boras will not want to piss off his best buyer.
That being said, there is no incentive for Boras to bargain just yet. However, he will unofficially solicit input from potential A Rod suitors to gauge his value and then he will re-sign with the Yankees on a backloaded contract, probably around 5 years $170M after his 3 years expire.
sunny615, good point, How many rings does Luis Sojo have? 4, does that make him a winner? Not really
sunny 615,
I agree…Cashman HAS to put a number out there and make sure the public knows about it.
Why prolong the guy’s exit if it is inevitable. I want a return if possible and this is the only way to get it.
Does he owe it to the Yankees? No. Should the Yankees do EVERYTHING in their power to determine his intent? ABSOLUTELY.
Sunny-
But none of those players you mentioned have actually made their team(s) worse. Except A-Rod.
Santana has made the Twins worse? Hafner and the Indians?
No.
The Yanks of the late ’90s won championships without a guy that consistently hit over 40 homers a year and/or batted in 130+ runs (i.e the kind of numbers that make A-Rod so expensive to keep). Sure, it’s great to have a guy that can put up those kinds of stats, but, honestly, you can put together a great team that’s capable of winning championships without a guy like that. Seriously, do we absolutely have to invest all this crazy money in A-Rod to have a great team?
A-Rod is not going to give the Yankees a home town discount. That’s almost laughable for so many different reasons.
The thing that worries/gets me is that Cash is usually a “cards close to the vest” kinda GM so this isn’t his MO. But I would have to think that he *has* to make the opening offer public so that the ball sits squarely in Boras’ court so he and his client has to look just plain greedy not to take it or so that Cash can say, “Hey, I tried but he’s done being a Yankee” at the very least.
I’m with you Chicago Dave. One player is just not worth that kind of money. This isn’t the NBA.
I would rather them spend $12 million on 3 really great guys that can contribute in different areas of the game rather than one guy.
“Guess I can’t conjecture, though…That apparently makes someone a fool in your book. To me, it’s just being a fan, but whatever…”
i called you a fool? i don’t remember saying anything like that.
PS: I know there are more important things to focus on…like WINNING for example.
Having said that, it is also important to acknowledge the fact that an era is about end for the Yankees. When you think about it, a lot will change after this season for this team.
Among these changes, you have to assume that the odds favor the following occurrences:
1. Clemens is done.
2. Pettitte is gone.
3. Abreu is gone.
4. Mussina is about done.
5. Youth is on its way in, and not in a subtle manner.
6. The Farm indicates that the Yankees are trying to re-build their franchise from top to bottom.
7. Torre is likely done.
8. A-Rod is gone of they don’t extend in mid-season.
So when it comes to this team talking about extending the best player in baseball, to me it is an indication that they are focusing on the right areas to build the next 5-7 years around.
The present season is not entirely lost, but it is close to being as much.
Bill: I don’t think they’ve made them worse, but they have definitely made them better. And a Yankee team with Arod is definitely better than one with out Arod. I honestly don’t believe we’d be at 42-43 (shudder) if he were gone. More likely 30-55. So I have to respectfully disagree that we’d be worse if we had no arod. Besides, it’s not our money. If Big Stein want’s to blow this money and knows full well that he’ll probably have to do it again to get Satana in 09, then let him blow it I say. More power to him. Also, if Arod does agree to the extension – $30 mil is still coming from Texas.
Chicago Dave: Do we have to? No. But I do think we’ll be a better team for it. Like I said above, it’s not like we’re the Royals with a $30 mil payroll. And after 09, we will have no Revenue Sharing so let the Big man spend his dough.
My impression of the Yankees is that whether or not Arod is making $30 mil a year on this team for the next 10 years, does not mean they won’t blow out the bank to get Santana in 2009 at another $30 per. Getting the best hitter (and maybe 3B man) and best pitcher for $60 mil is something I see the Yankees doing easily.
Bill,
The Yankees still have the option of bringing in three newbies at $12 million each.
A lot of payroll can open up after this season between the loss of the Clemens, Abreu, Pettitte contracts.
I hope Andy sticks around for a little longer, but really, what incentive does he have? He has been on the fence about retirement and right now, the Yankees are giving him zero reason to continue.
You also have to consider the new stadium…the Yankees will sell tickets for sure, but to do this continually, they have to win and to win, they have to start planning long term in stead of year to year.
A-Rod and Jeter are great places to start with respect to the cornerstones of an offense.
And what is all this BS about the Yankees not winning because of A-Rod? It is a team sport. They haven’t been “winning” since 2000.
By the way, you guys realize if A Rod stays his salary goes up $5M next year to $32M for the year. So there is no getting him for less than $32M a year going forward.
Many factors, the money is a ton, A Rod is great, the best free agents are being locked up, our position prospects are far away from contributing, new stadium coming in 2 years. I guess I’m saying the Yankees have to sign him at any cost.
Yeah, but why not focus the money on guys like Oswalt, Hunter, Zambrano, or even Teixeira?
I’m not saying they can get all of those guys for $12 Million a piece, but it would be close enough once allocated out.
Sunny 615,
When you put it like that, it sounds worse.
Santana and A-Rod making $60 million a year between the two of them. That sound insane.
Then again, there is always addition by subtraction. Surely they will lose players when they bring others in.
Its not like salaries have really decreased.
Larry- I know that…
I’m just pointing out how ridiculous it is to pay Arod that kind of money when it could be used in other areas.
“But none of those players you mentioned have actually made their team(s) worse. Except A-Rod.”
wow. this might be the dumbest thing i have yet to read on this blog.
A-Rod made the Yankees worse? how do you figure?
Here are the Yankees’ team ERA+ for the last decade:
1996 – 109
1997 – 115
1998 – 117
1999 – 108
2000 – 107
2001 – 108
2002 – 113
2003 – 109
2004 – 96
2005 – 98
2006 – 99
2007 – 98
You really think A-Rod is the reason the Yankees haven’t been as good the last 3 1/2 years?
couldn’t have anything to do with PITCHING could it??
A-Rod has never been on a Yankee team that even had AVERAGE pitching.
when the next wave of young, yankee pitching starts maturing, trust me, you’ll want a-rod’s bat on the team.
hmmm –
No, the word “fool” was not explicitly used, but I think the dismissive tone of your message made it pretty clear where you were coming from – i.e. comments like “you have absolutely no idea” and “but i guess since you haven’t seen it on mlbtraderumors.com, who are basically never right anyway, then it’s not happening?.”
BTW – Your Reggie comment really had nothing to do with what I said about A-Rod. However, you had to take the opportunity to jump on me again, apparently. You just seem very quick to try to push other people around on this board, like you’re the true Yankee afficionado. Well, hate to burst your bubble, but you’re not the Yankee expert, nor is anyone else who posts on this board. It’s supposed to be an open forum for fans to discuss their different thoughts about the team, not some sort of pissing contest where you are instantly dismissive of other people’s comments because you think you know better.
YOU WANT TO BRING CARLOS ZAMBRANO TO NY?!!!! YOu are insane. That guy is a basketcase.
Oswalt ain’t gonna be a free agent until 2012…he just signed an extension last year.
Hunter will be overpaid and I am not sure his intangibles are the right fit for the Yankees (as an offensive replacement).
Teixiera is a Boras client who is going to get $20 million per season. Is he worth that?
A-Rod is multi-tool…defense, power, drives in runs, steals bases, scores runs, marketable, hits for average, the list goes on. Oh, and he is only 32.
“Yeah, but why not focus the money on guys like Oswalt, Hunter, Zambrano, or even Teixeira?
I’m not saying they can get all of those guys for $12 Million a piece, but it would be close enough once allocated out.”
you have no idea what you are talking about. Oswalt is already signed for $15M for the next 5 years. how do you propose the yankees get him?
the rest of those guys will get between $17-22M a year.
Ichiro just signed for $20M a year for 5 years. Hunter isn’t going to get less than $16-18M a year.
“wow. this might be the dumbest thing i have yet to read on this blog.”
There we go…My point is proven in spades.
Larry,
Well *I* think the best move for ARod is staying with the Yankees. Not sure if he thinks that though. And if he doesn’t, he’ll opt out regardless of how much the Yanks offer him. What I really meant by that post though is that the best move for Alex isn’t necessarily synonymous with the best move for Boras, and I think ARod knows that and will act accordingly. Boras can’t hustle a hustler.
hmmm,
I wasn’t thinking about Horne’s options when I made that comment, but I just want someone who gives us a better chance to win than Igawa. Horne and Marquez obviously do, but so does Clippard – hell, maybe even Ron Villone or Sean Henn does. Just lookin for someone not named Kei Igawa.
And from what we’ve seen over the past off-season, the Yankees are not the Yankees of old. Sure, they still have the highest payroll, but we saw Cash dismiss the idea of signing big time free agents and their massive contracts. My point is, if they sign Arod, they will only want to bring one other big contract… In no way are they going to sign the aforementioned players I mentioned earlier if they sign A-Rod.
There is no mistaking that Arod is a great player. His stats this year are unmatched by any other player in just about every category. If I was a Yankees fan I would still be concerned about how he performs in the playoffs. This is the same player that was 1 for 14 in last year’s playoffs and slipped to eighth in the batting order. Last year was not an exception. In his last 12 postseason games he is 4 for 41.
Karstens rehab today for Staten Island:
5 IP, 1 R, 4H, 0 BB, and 8 Ks. This on top of 3 1/3 scoreless innings for the GCL Yankees on Saturday. Hopefully a Tampa rehab start is next.
As for Whelan, I read where he is starting at Tampa just to get some more innings. With that rotation at Trenton, you had six guys going deep into ballgames (Kennedy, Chamberlain, Horne, Marquez, Smith and Jones), and now Phil Hughes will be making two starts there. Almost seems unfair (he he he)….
Larry -
You also have to remember that a ton of current hefty contracts come off the books in a few years (most notably Giambi, Damon, Pavano, Abreu, Matsui, etc) and a slew of young pitchers a coming aboard including keeping Wang and Cano. So I can see the Yankee model resembling more the Twins than the current structure, so one or two big contracts won’t affect the team that’s already floats around the $200 mil mark.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Oswalt is already signed for $15M for the next 5 years. how do you propose the yankees get him?
You must not be paying attention, as usual.
Yankees could trade for him within the next 2 weeks as he just said he’s willing to waive his no-trade clause.
As for A-rod making the Yankees worse… You’re wrong – he’s made EVERY team worse that he’s played on. Thats just a simple fact. Its no longer just a coincidence anymore…
Bill –
Don’t bother trying to quibble with “hmmm.” He is completely incapable of entertaining any viewpoint other than his own.
However, I for one wholeheartedly agree with where you’re coming from on the A-Rod issue…
Ray,
That point cannot be dismissed, I agree.
On the hand, it is not A-Rod’s fault that the Yankees didn’t advance. It was the team’s fault.
If we had Clemens and Pettite last year, we probably would have gone to the WS and maybe even won it. All conjecture of course.
A-Rod will hit in the post season. Now, if they went to the post season this year and he didn’t produce, I wouldn’t have nearly as hard of a time waving goodbye. Perhaps that is the best thing they can focus on…getting to playoffs for the team’s sake. Seeing A-Rod’s performance there would be an interesting side story.
What’s going on with Rasner? Anybody know?
Hmmm has a baseball IQ lower than Mo’s usual ERA. Don’t bother.
As for Wigginton, he makes more sense than a lot of other names I have seen bandied about, and would probably immediately go to 1b and give the Yanks a righty bat they need. When Mientkiewicz returns, Joe could either platoon, or use Minky as a Def. replacement. But Wigginton does make more sense than other names that I’ve heard.
Mike S. – Thanks for the update on Karstens, by the way. That’s really encouraging news!
Remember that Rasner’s finger wasn’t exactly a hairline fracture. If I recall correctly, it needed pins. Therefore, no word on him.
Hmmmm- Oh, I forgot… A-Rod has been Mr. October II in the playoffs for the Yankees.
How did that slip my mind? You’re right “hmmmm”, he has in fact made the Yankees better.
Bill,
When and where did you see Oswalt saying he’d waive his no trade? Is that who you were referring to?
What teams has A-Rod made worse? What team has been more successful with A-Rod than they were without him? You can’t say the Yankees because as soon as Clemens and Pettitte departed after 2003, they have been pretty much the same. Was 2004 A-Rod’s fault? I seem to recall guys like Javier Vazquez and Kevin Brown screwing the pooch and Rivera blowing saves (he can’t always be perfect and I don’t hold this against him).
Seattle and Texas are in the exact same shape as they were when he was with them.
Bill, the question is not whether he has made them better, the question HOW has he made them worse?
Larry:
I seem to recall the Mariners winning 115 (or was 116) games right after A-Rod went to the Rangers. I’d say that was a marked improvement over their win totals with A-Rod on the team…
“It’s supposed to be an open forum for fans to discuss their different thoughts about the team, not some sort of pissing contest where you are instantly dismissive of other people’s comments because you think you know better.”
actually, i would love for this forum to be like that. but unfortunately it’s not.
it consists of a core group of good posters combined with a bunch of trolls and people who love to criticize the team b/c the yankees don’t operate in the fantasy world where you can trade Matt DeSalvo and Chase Wright for Mark Teixeira.
all i try to do is bring cold, hard logic to arguments.
but you are right. the A-Rod circus is a heated, passionate debate, and i do get worked up whenever the issue comes up. there was no need to sweep your seemingly innocuous comment about dumping Farnsworth and Myers up in the middle of all of it. for that, i genuinely apologize.
as for the reggie comment, what i was responding to was your use of the word “attention”. i thought you were trying to say that the Yankees would be better off without A-Rod, b/c of all the “attention” he gets. my point was that Reggie was the self-proclaimed “straw that stirs the drink”. the guy that brought drama and chaos to the clubhouse, and yet the team still won b/c he backed it up on the field. that’s all i was saying.
It is my opinion that the Yankees have everything they need in the locker room. They still are the most talented team in baseball. They need a good kick in the butt and to be told that they alone control their future. Captain Jeter and Vice Captain Posada need to walk around the clubhouse before every game and tell players to play like champions that day.
That being said, I really think that they can catch the Rag Sox. They’re not that good and we’re not this bad. Baseball has a way of leveling out. Let’s go get them. And besides I’m really sick of gloating Boston fans.
“There we go…My point is proven in spades.”
well, i apologized to you, but i’m not apologizing for that comment.
it was a dumb comment.
‘It’s supposed to be an open forum for fans to discuss their different thoughts about the team, not some sort of pissing contest where you are instantly dismissive of other people’s comments because you think you know better.’
I thought this was a place where only Yankees fans are allowed… but not people like SJ44, only optimistic Yankees fans.
If they don’t spend the money on A-Rod, they’re going to have to spend it for someone else or two or three someone else’s, none of whom will come close to A-Rod’s numbers, possibly not even in combination. In many ways, it’s easier and cheaper to get something done with A-Rod.
Too many things have gone wrong in the playoffs since 2004 to blame only A-Rod. The pitching hasn’t been there, and after game 3 of the 2004 ALCS pretty much no one has hit on a consistent basis. I still think the Yankees have a better shot at getting to the playoffs with A-Rod than without.
If they lose A-Rod, they are clearly going to be a team that is rebuilding almost from the ground up. And whoever they get to replace him is going to be either a free agent with inferior numbers or they’ll have to make a trade and risk losing prospects. And A-Rod will not agree to a trade. The way I see it, no matter what Cashman does, he will not have any leverage in this scenario. The only gains he has to make by going first is a PR gain. If he makes a great offer and is turned down, from a public relations standpoint he will look good to everyone — fans, media, etc. But A-Rod has all the leverage here where it counts — creating your team — because he is not easily replaced.
The reason the Giants didn’t go anywhere in spite of having Bonds is because they didn’t address other areas and they allowed their team to get too old. The Yankees need to avoid that — they need to get younger, and they need to improve their pitching. If they do that AND keep A-Rod, then I don’t think it’s a problem. If all they are interested in is keeping A-Rod around so he can build his numbers as a Yankee, as the Giants have done with Bonds, then it’s not a good idea.
Regular season wins doesn’t necessarily make a team better.
In 2001 Seattle won all those games only to get pounded by the Yankees in the playoffs.
With the exception of 2001, they are pretty much the exact same without A-Rod as they were with him.
Texas has been crappy for the past 10 years.
“As for A-rod making the Yankees worse… You’re wrong – he’s made EVERY team worse that he’s played on. Thats just a simple fact. Its no longer just a coincidence anymore…”
if it’s a simple fact, please prove it.
Larry-
Roy Oswalt told the Houston Chronicle he would waive his no-trade clause if a move would be better for the Astros’ future.
First of all, Seattle is better. The answer to the 2nd question is also Seattle. As far as Texas – you’re right they are the same – so that proves my point exactly. He did nothing for them.
As far as the playoffs and the Yanks, I remember him in 2004 disappearing after Game 3 of the Boston series – never to be found again…
This has now dribbled down to every post season he’s been in thereafter.
Pete,
To get back to your music for a sec:
Check out Miles Davis for great “sleeping on a plane” music. In A Silent Way is my go-to snooze music. Really good, but also really relaxing. Kind of Blue is also great for those situations.
“I seem to recall the Mariners winning 115 (or was 116) games right after A-Rod went to the Rangers. I’d say that was a marked improvement over their win totals with A-Rod on the team…”
the 2000 Mariners won more playoff games with A-Rod than the 2001 Mariners won without him.
yet Bill says this:
“July 12th, 2007 at 2:11 pm
Hmmmm- Oh, I forgot… A-Rod has been Mr. October II in the playoffs for the Yankees.
How did that slip my mind? You’re right “hmmmmâ€?, he has in fact made the Yankees better”
so which is it?
are the playoffs more important than the regular season or aren’t they?
i’m confused.
the only evidence that A-Rod has made the Yankees worse seems to be his playoff performance.
yet the only evidence that he made the Mariners worse is their regular season performance.
Hmmmm- see Chicago Daves post a few up.
As for baseball:
Anyone who thinks A Rod makes the Yanks worse is insane. I still worry about his postseason struggles, but he’s dominant in the regular season.
Not sure though if he’s worth $32 mil a season. Not my money, but I hope that if we pay him that much that we can still strengthen the team in other areas.
The team has had a slew of issues and still would have whether Arod was playing 3rd or Aaron Boone. The aforementioned loss of Pettitte and Clemens, the acquisition of Contreras, Vasquez, Brown, Randy Johnson – the boss overriding Cash on getting Sheffield instead of Vlad, signing Pavano, and on and on – all of which have nothing to do with Arod.
ps – that 116 season was also the season they acquired Ichiro Suzuki and Brett Boone.
“Hmmm has a baseball IQ lower than Mo’s usual ERA. Don’t bother.”
damn, here i was thinking my IQ was at least as high as Sturtze’s ERA.
But Bill,
Who HAS hit on the Yankees with consistency since 2004?
The Yankees weren’t even hitting with consistency in the 2003 playoffs…the pitching staff bailed them out and then when the bats needed to come to life in the World Series, there was nothing.
How is Seattle any better now than they were with A-Rod? You are evading the question. They have been awful the past two years and are finally getting better this year. 2001 they had a GREAT regular season. They are pretty much the same as far as A-Rod goes.
Texas dumped so much money on A-Rod that it made it impossible to focus money anywhere else. The Yankees don’t face this situation because Steinbrenner is loaded.
I WOULD LOVE TO GET ROY OSWALT. That would be so great. Ain’t gonna happen though…any time soon that is. Where’d you read that?
hmmmm-
They are separate because they are two different animals you’re trying to tackle here with the teams we’re talking about. And if you want to discuss reg season, fine… Did A-rod perform a high level last reg season. No. Either way, it all boils down to the fact Arod will continue to pad his stats in the regular season for his entire career and will continue to not show up during October.
Bill, I should clarify that my first Question in my last post refers to the playoffs.
So: Who on the Yankees HAS hit with consistency in the playoffs since 2004?
I’m not sure why you (Bill) think Arod did not perform at a high level last year when he lead the team in HR and RBI despite his troubles…?
Larry- In the post I made, I said the Houston Chronicle. And why wouldnt it be anytime soon if he’s on the trade block right now?
just for fun, what do you think the Astros would demand for Oswalt?
i’m thinking Cano plus 2 of the following:
Tabata
Chamberlain
Horne
Kennedy
Bill,
A-Rod’s regular season last year wasn’t THAT bad…at the plate anyways. It may not be his career average, but .291, 35 bombs, and 121 RBIs is pretty darn good.
seriously people , it all comes down to pitching . thats where the yanks need to spend money . posada needs to switch to first base ( which i think is a great idea ) on a 2 year deal with an option for 2010. a one year deal for mo with an option for 2009 + 10 . the yanks teams of the past were all about pitching and timely hitting . now , its all about fu@k you t-shirts , large worthless contracts and lack-luster pitching . its time to right the ship and get on the ball . look at the redsox , angels and tigers . all these teams have young great freakin’ pitching and all these teams are play off contenders .
“They are separate because they are two different animals you’re trying to tackle here with the teams we’re talking about. And if you want to discuss reg season, fine… Did A-rod perform a high level last reg season. No. Either way, it all boils down to the fact Arod will continue to pad his stats in the regular season for his entire career and will continue to not show up during October.”
well, i’m not sure you can say that he will CONTINUE to not play well in October. we don’t know that, do we?
i am going to try to change my tone on this site (except with trolls), and have a civil discussion. please answer the following questions:
do you think A-Rod has any control of the quality of pitching his team has (for the most part)?
what percentage of a teams’ performance would you say is due to their pitching?
Mike S., thanks for the update on Whelan. Trenton’s pitching staff is indeed downright sick this season! It is a thing of beauty.
Getting Oswalt for any of those listed would be awful.
You guys talking about the whole “one player is not worth that kind of money” are completely deluded. The days of the 10 million dollar all star are over. Look at the numbers Zito, Ichiro, Soriano all got.
If you’re not close to 20 million a season now for your average all star player, you are not in the game. The market is set.
The economics of baseball have changed yet again and the Yankees signing 3 players for 30 million instead of one for 30 million doesn’t guarantee that those 3 players are awesome. Carl Pavano makes 10 million. Here’s a 10 million dollar free agent for you after the season — Mike Lowell. Mike will get 2 years at 20-24 million after this season from some dumb team. That’s because he’s old, coming off some bad seasons, but put up great numbers this year. His value is discounted for all the bad seasons before this one and his age and he’ll still get more than 10 million a year.
You are not getting Tori Hunter or any starting pitcher with a proven track record for under 18 million a year now.
I don’t know why you all are so concerned about the money these guys get paid when it doesn’t matter. The Yankees will always spend what they need to spend to field what they think is the best team. We already pay through the nose for tickets and cable and parking and they still make a profit every year paying the highest salaries. Our fricking manager is making 7 million? What are you all up in arms about.
Stop worrying about Yankee payroll — it doesn’t matter. They can give Arod 30 million and give Santanna 30 million and give Texeira 20 million and they still will field a top competitive team.
If fiscal responsibility is your thing, then you are rooting for the wrong team. Go root for Minnesota and the Marlins and KC if you really are that concerned about payroll.
All I’m concerned about is we put the best team on the field year after year. Letting Arod walk without a fight is a major catastrophe for this team.
Cashman has to force Arod into making a decision now. It’s the Yankees only play.
If Arod/Boras really are refusing to negotiate, that means he’s gone at the end of the season and so is the Texas money/subsidy.
If that’s the case, Cashman has to use the press and the fans to turn on Arod again and get him to agree to a trade so we can get something for him. Teams will line up for a 1/2 season rental of him.
By offering Arod a blank check extension and letting the press and public know about it, Arod will take a huge hit here in NY if he declines it.
If we can’t resign him because he doesn’t want to be a Yankee for life, we need to run him out of town before the trade deadline.
.280 .362 .485
Do people think this represents a good player?
These are very close, and are actually better than Hideki Matsui’s season stats (.274 .358 .464). Are people satisfied with Hideki’s performance?
These are ARod’s career Postseason numbers.
I wouldn’t exactly say thats not showing up to the Postseason.
Bill,
Just read that Houston Chronicle article.
It’ll be interesting to see if the Yankees try to make this move…if not for this season, for the rest of Oswalt’s contract. How do you think he’d fair in NY though?
Then you have to consider who he’d replace. Do we leave Hughes in AAA the rest of the season, poised to join the Yankees in 2008′s rotation. Hughes, Oswalt, and Wang would be a great starting 3.
I doubt we’ll see him in the stripes this season though.
Arod last year was in the top three in all offensive categories :
arod’s 2006 stats
BA: 3rd (.290) – 1st Jeter (.343), 2nd Cano (.342) (min 100 AB)
Games Played: tied 1st (154) – Jeter 1(54), 3rd Damon (149)
Runs: 3rd (113) – 1st Jeter (118), 2nd Damon (115)
Hits: 3rd (166) – 1st Jeter (214), 2nd Damon (169)
Walks: 2nd (90) – 1st Giambi (110), 3rd Jeter (69)
HR: 1st (35) – 2nd Giambi (37), 3rd Damon (24)
RBI: 1st (121) – 2nd Giambi (113), 3rd Jeter (97)
OPS: 2nd (.914) – 1st Giambi .971, 3rd Jeter (.900)
this is my point. here is the key to the “teams are worse with A-Rod” myth.
2000 Mariners Team ERA+ – 101
2001 Mariners Team ERA+ – 119
2003 Rangers Team ERA+ – 87
2004 Rangers Team ERA+ – 111
2003 Yankees Team ERA+ – 109
2004 Yankees Team ERA+ – 96
do you see what i am saying?
these teams did “better” without A-Rod b/c they ALL had VASTLY better pitching without him.
with the Yankees we know why that is. Clemens, Pettitte, and Wells all left.
when the Yankees have good pitching again, which they will, hopefully by 2009, we’ll want a-rod around.
a-rod has never been on a team with excellent pitching. NEVER.
_You guys are really pathetic. You still haven’t put away my ****-**** Yankees yet despite all the injuries they have had, and all the inconsistencies, and underperforming they have suffered through. They are still within stiking distance, you guys are definitely overrated!!!_
_Go Yanks!!!!!_
_Posted by: sentinelofgods@aol.com | July 11, 2007 10:42 PM_
Some retard yankee fan going to sox blogs and giving bad rep to all the yankee fans.
whoops:
HR: 2nd (35) – 1st Giambi (37), 3rd Damon (24)
One more from the same retard yankee fan giving bad rep to the yankee fans.
_Josef, you’re a real retard, you **** haven’t won anything yet. Hasn’t past history taught you anything? Don’t count your eggs before they hatch!!!! Sure yo have alarge lead on my sorry team, but it’s still a manageable difference, and there’s still a long way to go. Since you idiots haven’t been able to put my team away anything can happen between now and the end of the season._
_Posted by: sentinelofgods@aol.com | July 12, 2007 01:57 PM_
What did the Mariners ADD to their team? I think that’s more pertinent than what they lost.
But, anyway, Seattle did win WC with Alex before left, and in spite of his .406 with 2 HR and 5 RBI, Seattle lost in the playoffs. The following year, Seattle also got to the playoffs, but after that they began to tail off, finishing either 3rd or 4th in the division.
Texas should never have even gone after A-Rod in the first place. He was not going to be able to put them over the top because they were never one great player away from winning. They’ve hovered in 3rd or 4th place, before, during and after A-Rod.
In A-Rod’s first year with the Yankees, they won 101 games and should have gotten to the world series, but the ENTIRE team collapsed in games 4-7.
The Yankees were a playoff team without A-Rod and with A-Rod.
I think A-Rod is given far too much credit and far too much blame for where his teams end up before, during and after his tenure.
That being said, I’d rather have the arguably the game’s best player on the team I root for.
i agree with doreen
There are obnoxious fans of every team. I be even the Royals have a few.
sunny615,
_HR: 1st (35) – 2nd Giambi (37), 3rd Damon (24)_
How come Giambi hit 37 HRs and he is in 2nd and ARod hit 35 HRs and he is in first place. Is my math so bad or you r miserble math student. Or is it the unlimited love for ARod because he is having such a good season.
PS.Saw ur correction but decided to post anyway.
hey good news everyone JULIO FRANCO WAS RELEASED TODAY! Let’s sign him up to be our everyday first baseman! Or Not!
Joe L,
I love it all!
Hmmm -
I don’t understand the ERA+ statistic, but I think your point is “on point.” You win with pitching, but pitching needs a supportive offense. I 100% agree with you that when the Yankees have the pitching where it should be, having A-Rod will be necessary to support that pitching.
There are immature trolls trying to represent every team out there. Someone doing it on behalf of the Yankees isn’t any better than a fan of another team. They’re _all_ idiots.
Julio Franco. I wonder who’ll pick HIM up. Maybe the Giants so they can have someone else who is essentially useless but who is part of some aspect of history.
Love this formatting the text. Thanks Sunnyart for the blog entry. And thanks to the people who helped me find the link.
By the was is sunnyart == sunny615…just curious.
Jeff NJ -
I don’t think that’s good news at all. I kinda liked that there was an almost 50-year-old guy in great shape still playing in the majors. It was a harbinger of hope that life doesn’t have to end at 40.
yep that’s me.
ERA+ is the ratio of the league’s ERA compared to that of the specific pitcher 100 is average.
In other words it the best way to look at a team/player’s ERA in comparison to how the league is being played at that specific time (dead ball/steroid era).
That was for you Doreen
“I don’t understand the ERA+ statistic, but I think your point is “on point.â€? You win with pitching, but pitching needs a supportive offense.”
Doreen, ERA+ is simply the ratio of the league’s ERA (adjusted to the pitcher’s ballpark) to that of the pitcher (in this case, the team ERA). greater than 100 is above average and less than 100 is below average.
i will also use OPS+ from time to time. it is the ratio of park adjusted league average OPS to the player’s OPS.
both of these stats are better than looking at raw ERA or raw OPS, b/c it places them in the context of comparing them to league averages and adjusts them for ballpark factors.
so, for example, the 2003 Yankees had pitching that was 9% better than the AL average. the 2004 Yankees had pitching that was 4% worse. that is a huge difference.
Here is what I think about the Arod situation and the opt-out/extension etc etc. And I may be looking at it from a total nieve point of view but….
At what point will Alex start thinking about his legacy? Yes he will have great numbers and will probably go down as one of the greatest players of all time. But he will also go down perhaps as one of the most talented players who always chased the money. If he leaves the Yankees that will make the next team his 4th team, he has no legacy anywhere. Maybe that is not as important these days but there will come a time when people look back and it will always be commented on.
‘If he leaves the Yankees that will make the next team his 4th team, he has no legacy anywhere. Maybe that is not as important these days but there will come a time when people look back and it will always be commented on.’
Good point, but if he leaves the team and spends the next 8-10 years with the Angels for example and wins 2+ championships he will have plent of legacy right there in LA.
But I agree with you on the fact that players just don’t stick around with one team enough anymore these days. But thats what free agency has done to the market.
Just because you have the best player in the game on your team doesn’t guarantee you anything or even get you into the playoffs.
It doesnt hurt having him especially since they don’t care about the price or cost. But if they lose him the world won’t end for the Yanks.
Seattle lost him, Griffey (in his prime) and Johnson(prime) and won the most games in the majors.
Its about pitching. Having a lot of it.
Joe L.,
The Yankees aren’t going to feild the best team out there by giving him $33 Million ($45 mill with luxary tax) a year. Cash ahs said over and over again the Yankees are turning their trend of just spending on whoever. Cash proved this just this offseason by staying away from the massive contracts…
So, by signing Arod to this deal, it will in fact put a damper on things, only because the Yankees aren’t going to sign like they did in the past when Stein was in full command.
A team with as many young pitching prospects as the Yankees have now will never be out of it.
That just gives them 250 mill to spend on everyone else. The more young guys playing and contributing for them the easier it is for them to spend heavy on top guys.
Giambi is off the books next yr. Same with Pavano.
Thats 30 mill right there. Think that can get you Joe Nathan, Texeira, and Santana without batting an eye.
They have a lot of flexibility coming real soon. A real chance to get creative.
Now is Cashman the guy to be in charge of this new reloading era?
A-Rod is already signed to a huge deal Bill. Also he’s a known commodity, it’s different than signing a Lilly or Meche to 50 Million. As for Luxury Tax, that will be softened soon with the new Stadium in 2009.
This team cannot afford to lose A-Rod with the lack of power and right handed bats.
Lastly I doubt his yearly salary goes up to 33 Million, that’s ludicrous. It will probably be 27, 28, 29 Million.
Signing A-Rod for 30 mill really doesnt hurt flexibility if three of these young pitchers become solid major leaguers. Either starting or relieving.
They are going to have to find power somewhere so you may as well have the guy who plays hard, plays everyday, has proven he can do NY, and is on pace for the HR record.
I think they can make up for that salary with him thru marketing and everything else.
And keep in mind. They dont have to pay the lux tax with the new ballpark.
I love the amateur economists in our mists. Especially the Red Sox ones like YanksSox. Theo would give his left arm for A Rod. No matter what the price.
Brian Cashman needs to get the extension with A Rod done, period. Then Cashman needs to call Gene Michael and ask for his opinion on how to fix the trainwreck that Cashman has created. The Yanks have 6 good starting pitchers at Trenton. Someone needs to decide which ones to keep and which ones to gamble on a trade with. Cashman has yet to show that he can evaluate talent.
here is another question for someone.Everyone always says the Yankees have plenty of money.It is my belief that the Yannkees have built this team in terms of $$ counting on the playoffs. If they dont make the playoffs how much money do they lose?? (think about not only stadium money, advertisers, YES etc etc) I would venture a guess that it is a HUGE amount and could effect what they spend and maybe the idea of cost consciousness has to do with the idea that Cashman and the money people saw possible down years coming and knew if they would be handcuffed.
ARod wants $30 million per, which means he’ll get less.
debate it all you want…A-Rod WILL be a Yankee until he retires, just like Jeter, Mo and Posada…..the rest of your “opinions” are just chatter…ON TO THE GAME TONIGHT…
HOW ‘BOUT THEM YANKEES ????
_’I love the amateur economists in our mists. Especially the Red Sox ones like YanksSox.’ _
This makes no sense in comparison to any of my posts.
_’Theo would give his left arm for A Rod. No matter what the price.’_
Then A Rod will be a Red Sock next year, which I would enjoy.
Larry….LOL !!! ( he’ll have the experience handling gargantuan sums of money !!! )
Hey Peter (or anyone who might know the answer)
To be eligable for the Hall of Fame (as a player), do you have to be retired as a player for 5 years? Or out of baseball completely?
I’m wondering whether Rickey Henderson just bumped back his eligability by taking the Hitting Coach job or not.
here is the your answer Jim
3. Player shall have ceased to be an active player in the Major Leagues at least five (5) calendar years preceding the election but may be otherwise connected with baseball.
3. Eligible Candidates — Candidates to be eligible must meet the following requirements:
1. A baseball player must have been active as a player in the Major Leagues at some time during a period beginning twenty (20) years before and ending five (5) years prior to election.
2. Player must have played in each of ten (10) Major League championship seasons, some part of which must have been within the period described in 3 (A).
3. Player shall have ceased to be an active player in the Major Leagues at least five (5) calendar years preceding the election but may be otherwise connected with baseball.
4. In case of the death of an active player or a player who has been retired for less than five (5) full years, a candidate who is otherwise eligible shall be eligible in the next regular election held at least six (6) months after the date of death or after the end of the five (5) year period, whichever occurs first.
5. Any player on Baseball’s ineligible list shall not be an eligible candidate.
( MEANS HE DID NOT BUMP BACK HIS ELIGIBILITY )
Look at who’s pitching for Trenton this weekend. Kennedy, Hughes, Joba, Horne….WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks a lot guys.
Slowdive -Souvlaki
dontfirecash,
Is Joba pitching Saturday? Trying to figure out who gets the start that day cause I have tix and not sure if I can go…if it is Joba I’ll find a way to go tho!
Thanks, YanksSox and Hmmmm.
How do they adjust for a park? Are there particular guidelines like park dimensions, or just the average ERA of pitchers pitching in a particular park?
Gayle –
I think the Yankees might be okay attendance-wise for a couple of years because of the new stadium. People will go next year because it’s the last year of the old one; usually a new stadium is a boon for a couple of years before the novelty wears off.
I’m not sure how YES will fare, though. I suppose they might lose viewers toward the end of a season where the Yankees are not lined up for the playoffs, but if they keep it close and are in some kind of a race, again, I think they’ll be okay. As far as next season, hope always springs eternal in baseball, so the beginning of the year will probably be fine, but would certainly be helped if there’s something new to tune in for, like an exciting free agent, some highly-regard rookie pitching, something like that. And then, it goes back to on-field performance.
But, I don’t think they can make missing the playoffs a regular occurrence, and they certainly can’t make not even being in a race for the division or wild card a habit.
Well, I’ve been off working for a while, but I thought I’d pop back in for a moment…
As for Seattle’s great success in the regular season immediately following A-Rod’s departure…Sorry, boys (and girls), it most certainly “counts.” There simply would be no playoffs without a regular season…I think we can all agree on that…It’s an immutable fact. Otherwise, if the whole year consisted just of the playoffs and WS, baseball would have a VERY short season.
I’m about to flog a dead horse again, but it really does need to be flogged in this case…Did you all just start being Yankee fans in ’01? If not, how can you forget the formula that worked so well for the Yanks in the late ’90s? Pitching, pitching and more pitching, combined with an offense built of role players, not super-mashers and superstars. So, forgive me for disagreeing with those who say we “need” A-Rod’s bat when all the Trenton kiddies come of age. We don’t…We just need a semi-productive offense if those kids all pitch like the world-beaters everyone hopes they’ll be.
Put it another way…How far has the Yanks’ modern-day “Murderers Row” approach gotten them lately? Embarassed by teams like the Angels and Tigers time and again… Mighty hitters made to look humble by great pitching… Works every time. I said it before and I’ll say it again, down the road the Yanks will rue the day they gave a small mint to A-Rod, as they keep watching other teams win it all in October…Other teams with roster flexibility and, as a result, for more balance than the Yanks could ever hope to have with a financial weight like A-Rod hanging around their necks.
Doreen adjusting to a park is a stat called Park Factor
The formula is
PF = ((homeRS + homeRA)/(homeG)) / ((roadRS + roadRA)/(roadG))
with RS – Runs Scored, RA – Runs Allowed, G – Games
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor
Park factors for each specific park.
YanksSox:
Just curious…Which Sox blog (or blogs) to you post/participate on?
I agree with those that emphasize pitching as the most important factor in recent Post Season failures and as the key to restoring the Yankees to World Champions.
I really believe that Cashman has finally recognized the trend that terrific young arms will go a long way to keep a team in post season contention and that it is far more advantageous to homegrow and stockpile them than suffer through long term, over-priced contracts by signing free agent pitchers that are generally past their prime.
Those who blame ARod for recent failures of Seattle, Texas and the Yankees need to take a closer look at their respective pitching staffs during those seasons.
The 2004, 2005, & 2006 Yankee Teams have simply shown inferior pitching in the Post Season.
As Global Warming accurately points out, The Yankees cannot afford NOT to sign ARod, as he provides the only legimitate right-hand hitting power threat in the current lineup. Signing Texeira, who provides excellent defense, youth, good baseball instincts and another power threat against both lefties and righties – would be a big boost.
In lesser news, the Angels have released Shea Hillenbrandt.
I wonder if Cashman will show any interest?
Shea Hillenbrand is a joke. Nothing more.
HAHA!! I beat Peter with the lineup:
J. Damon dh
M. Cabrera cf
D. Jeter ss
A. Rodriguez 3b
H. Matsui lf
J. Posada c
B. Abreu rf
R. Cano 2b
A. Phillips 1b
Texeira seems a bit streaky to me…Whenever I see him I think of Pat Burrell of the Phillies. I know that’s probably not a fair comparison, but I honestly don’t feel that Texeira would flourish playing first base for the Yanks. Rather, I think he would scuffle quite a bit and ultimately be a disappointment.
Still, he might be one of the few available options out there this offseason for a young, starter-quality first baseman, and, of course, the Yanks would be merely paying for him rather than having to trade prospects for him…So perhaps he might be worth a shot. However, I don’t think that, even if they do end up signing him, the Yanks should give him a long-term deal (we don’t need another Giambi!).
Larry….and he Shea is not even a very good joke at that !
Alan,
Huh? I am confused by your last post…
Nevermind, gotcha! Hillenbrand is worthless.
A bigger joke is the Yankees record against lefty pitchers this year!
With the current crop of sorry bench players, SOMETHING has to be done!
“Shea Hillenbrand is a joke. Nothing more.”
“Larry….and he Shea is not even a very good joke at that !”
As In, I agree that Shea should only step foot into Yankees Stadium as either a laughable opponent or a spectator !
Julio Franco would be better than Shea Hillenbrand! HA!!
Chicago Dave,
I post mostly on YanksFanSoxFan and SoSH, and from time to time there maybe others (38 Stitches as you guys call it, Fenway Nation, Boston Sports Blog). This is the only Yankee site I read and/or post on. Its nice to talk with other fans and get their input, and this is probably one of the easiest sites to get an immediate response back, positive or negative.
I have noticed there aren’t many Sox websites like this one, created by someone who has direct correlation with the team, and find this site very enjoyable. Yet many Yanks fans don’t find me here very enjoyable, for one reason or another.
“Did you all just start being Yankee fans in ‘01? If not, how can you forget the formula that worked so well for the Yanks in the late ‘90s? Pitching, pitching and more pitching, combined with an offense built of role players, not super-mashers and superstars. ”
i would like the Yankees to have great pitching AND great hitting. if they can afford it, why not?
also, i respectfully disagree with this portrayal of the 1997-2000 Yankees. the 1998 Yankees were a historically great offensive team.
Paul O’Neill, Bernie Williams, Derek Jeter, and Jorge Posada were indeed “super mashers” during that stretch.
Chili Davis, Darryl Strawberry, Tino Martinez, Tim Raines, and Scott Brosius were also excellent hitters.
Paul O’Neil was a near-HOF level player from 1993-1999 with the Yankees. he was a star. Jeter is a Hall of Famer. Bernie had a HOF level peak and from 1995-2002 he was one of the very best players in the game. Posada is a borderline HoFer.
look, i don’t disagree with you that pitching is the key. it definitely is. no question. but when you combine a great offense with great pitching, that’s how you create a DYNASTY.
the Twins and the A’s have had great pitching for several years now and a mediocre offense. they have not been able to break through. the 90′s Indians and Rangers had great hitting and mediocre pitching, and they couldn’t break through. the late 90′s Yankees had both.
2 Points:
Giambi’s contract is not up at the end of this year. One more year at $21- to $23 mil, depending on how you run the numbers. So he’ll clog up the 1st base / DH equation again.
Answer to Migames “How many rings does Luis Sojo have? 4, does that make him a winner? Not really????”
Sojo is a winner because he was always a contributor who hustled, rarely made a mistake under pressure, and often came through in the clutch – no matter how ugly looking the hit. It’s not just individual stat’s folks. It’s all about the rings.
That’s a winner. We need more like him.
“ALEX RODRIGUEZ FOR TREASURER!”
Doug Mientkiewicz for Secretary of Defense!!!
Hmmm –
You took the words out of my mouth — and said it better than I would have.
just to follow up, and this is not directed at anyone here, but i think people in general don’t realize exactly how GREAT Paul O’Neill was as a Yankee. studies have shown that he was one of the best defensive RFers of the era and these are his numbers from 1993-1999:
OPS+
1993 – 134
1994 – 177
1995 – 138
1996 – 122
1997 – 138
1998 – 129
1999 – 114
here are Sheffield’s numbers as a Yankee:
2004 – 143
2005 – 132
2006 – 112
Basically, O’Neill was as good a hitter as Sheffield was as a Yankee.
You could make a similar comparison to Bernie from 1997-2001 and A-Rod’s numbers as a Yankee. Same goes for Tino and Matsui.
it’s not that the recent Yankee teams have taken an “all offense” approach, it’s that not only has their pitching not been as good, they are still struggling to replicate the amazing offense they HAD when they were winning the WS every year.
the Yankees needed A-Rod and Sheffield just to replace the loss of O’Neill and the decline of Bernie.
Chicago Dave and anyone else who thinks A-Rod makes his team worse -
2 points:
1. Correllation does not imply causation. Simply because Seattle had more wins after A-Rod left does not mean A-Rod leaving was the reason for this.
2. In the case of Seattle and Texas, A-Rod tied up a large portion of their limited resources. With the Yankees and A-Rod, this is not the case. For example, we went and added Abreu last year, we added Roger this year, and we’ll probably add someone else at the deadline.
The only way A-Rod made those teams “worse” was because his value was outweighed by his huge financial burden on the club. Since our payroll is basically unlimited, especially with the new stadium, he won’t be a huge burden, even at $35mil per year for 8 years.
It’s great to say “spend it on 3 other plays” but where would those guys play? Outside of 1b and the bullpen, we really don’t have any glaring needs. Have you checked the free agent 1b list for next year? It’s headed by Dimitri Young and Doug “Alphabet Soup”.
The point is, there is no better way we could spend $30 mil, period, end of story. He makes our team MUCH better. Your logic is flawed on every level.
“Sojo is a winner because he was always a contributor who hustled, rarely made a mistake under pressure, and often came through in the clutch – no matter how ugly looking the hit. It’s not just individual stat’s folks. It’s all about the rings.”
you could look at it that way. another way to look at it is that he was simply in the right place at the right time, no?
also, he has FIVE rings, having played with the 1993 Blue Jays.
Jeff Kennard’s name came up. True, he’s on the 40-man roster but space can be cleared for Alan Horne by including Kennard as part of a package with Philly to get Aaron Rowand provided Cashman can reach a deal to sign Rowand and eliminate him as a free agent this winter. Philly may want Melky or Brett Gardner to replace Rowand but hey, nothing for nothing in this world. Cashman rarely tips his hand so he may be thinking about a Rowand deal already. My ultimate package ? Kennard, Farnsworth, Myers, and Gardner for Rowand.
when did everyone fall in love with aaron rowand? the guy’s been crashing into walls for years now, you think he’s not going to start wearing down soon?
and teixeira. what makes you think texas is just going to accept any lowball trade offer the yankees throw their way? and without any of the young pitching prospects on the table, any offer the yankees make will be lowball.
you folks get a name in your heads and there’s no stoping the insanity.
kasey –
At least the trades don’t actually get made here, so aside from driving some people crazy, it’s harmless.
i have a headache
Alan,
As long as A-Rod is still at 3B, I am more than happy to see Mark T. in there.
“the guy’s been crashing into walls for years now”
i skimmed through most of the comments pretty quickly, but this must be the funniest thing i read all day…
I just got home from work – Nice to know the level of discourse remains at a high level.
YanksSox, Hmmm,
What’s wrong with using team ERA, plain and simple, as a comparative stat?
“I just got home from work – Nice to know the level of discourse remains at a high level.”
but/and, looks like all these high-minds have not make any progress on that A-Rod issue either.
Doreen,
Not quite sure which question you’re actually asking, to only use team ERA and not count the leagues average or not count the park factor. But I will try and address both.
League average is used for when you are comparing different years such as when hmmm was discussing the early Yankees teams you can see how they were in comparison to the league at that point in time. This is more for historical purposes because there are eras in baseball where pitching and hitting go through various slumps. Some examples of this are the dead ball era, the steroids era, and also when they changed aspects of the game (height of the mound).
For example, if I was to compare the Yankees pitching staff of ’99 which had an ERA of 4.18 and an ERA+ 108 of to the Yankees of ’17 who had an ERA of 2.66 and an ERA+ 101. By looking at just team ERAs the ’17 Yanks kill the ’99 Yanks, but in comparison to the league the ’99 Yankees pitching staff was actually better. Times change and its hard to compare different eras so this is the best way to do it.
Along the same lines ERA can be deceiving if you are a pitcher in Colorado (hitting park) as compared to a pitcher in San Diego (pitcher park) to name the obvious ones. This is to show maybe Peavy’s 2.19 ERA would be slighty higher if he was pitching in Colorado, Fenway, or Yankee Stadium (hitters parks).
Hope you don’t get confused between ERA(stat) and era(time period).
“What’s wrong with using team ERA, plain and simple, as a comparative stat?”
Doesn’t take into account the effect of the team’s home ballpark…for instance, San Diego is a pitcher’s park so their staff’s raw ERA is unnaturally low and Cincinnatti’s staff plays half their games in a hitter’s park. Comparing the raw ERAs of these two staffs is like comparing apples to oranges, it’s impossible to draw a meaningful conclusion about the quality of each team’s staff. One can get a general idea, but not a precise measure.
In addition, raw ERA says nothing about the league, so the stat has no context. The basic idea is that the Reds’ pitchers for 2006 today cannot be compared to the ERA ofthe Dodgers’ pitchers in 1970.
hmmm – OK, I’ve got to throw down the gauntlet here. You can’t really seriously compare O’Neill, Bernie, et al. to Rodriguez, can you? I mean, my whole point to begin with was that the late ’90s Yankee teams didn’t have a single player that was near the offensive force that A-Rod is stat-wise. Outside of the one year Tino had a career year hitting homers, no one else is even that close to the sort of numbers A-Rod is putting up this year. Still, the late ’90s offense worked just fine. So, again I reiterate my original point that it has been proven that the Yanks don’t absolutely “need” a hitter (or hitters) like Rodriguez to be really successful.
Also, while I certainly love Paul O’Neill, Bernie Williams, Derek Jeter, and Jorge Posada, they were not definitely “super mashers” in the late ’90s. Again, when I said “super mashers” I meant a guy with crazy homerun and RBI totals every year (i.e. A-Rod). Again, you can’t seriously be putting all these players on the same level, can you?
As for Chili Davis, Darryl Strawberry, Tino Martinez, Tim Raines and Scott Brosius being “excellent hitters.” Well, I don’t know that looking at their actual stats you could say they were “excellent hitters” overall as Yankees – maybe for stretches, but not for their Yankee careers. Especially Brosius…Go look up his actual offensive numbers for the championship years and tell me they were “excellent.”
Still…This all goes to my essential point. Pair great pitching with good situational hitters who mesh well as a team, and you have a winner. Would an uber-offense be nice? Sure! However, it is simply not a “must have” to win the brass ring. Too many teams with relatively weak offenses (but great pitching) have won the WS to argue this essential point.
“I reiterate my original point that it has been proven that the Yanks don’t absolutely “needâ€? a hitter (or hitters) like Rodriguez to be really successful.”
The only problem is there are like 5 players in major league baseball like ARod, so yes you don’t need a player like ARod, but it is ridiculous for people to say that he doesn’t help the Yankees.
P.S. – I simply have to stick up for “Little Luis” Sojo here. I would take Sojo back in a heartbeat over Cairo, Phillips, Phelps, Minky and pretty much every other bench player we have had in recent years. The guy was consistently solid on defense and he got some great clutch hits for the Yanks (in pressure situations, like in the ’00 WS vs. the Mets, if anyone else remembers that game-winning hit he had). The guy did more with what little talent he had than most guys could our would have (again, see our current bench players for a good comparison).
So hell yes, Sojo was a “winner,” and he earned that title outright.
brett gardner was just promote to AAA scranton…Bronson Sardinha was demoted to AA trenton to take his place
here is a link
http://www.oursportscentral.co.....id=3505797
YanksSox –
There is a more nuanced argument going on here, and it’s an argument bthat I’ve been trying to make on this blog all day. The question isn’t whether A-Rod simply “helps” the Yankees. It’s a no-brainer that 30 homers and 86 RBIs would “help” any team in the league. So, it’s not really about that…It’s more about whether, looking at constructing a winning team as a whole, it is absolutely necessary to have a guy like A-Rod on the squad. To wit, is having A-Rod at third and batting cleanup the ONLY way for the Yanks to regain their glory? My answer to that question is “no,” and I’ve explained why in previous posts.
rowand’s 30 years old and has been playing the way he plays at the big league level since 2001. the guy plays hard and gives up his body out there (and i’m not just making reference to the catch in philly). he’s going to wear down at some point. he’s not THAT much younger than hunter, he’s not any better defensively, and he’s not the offensive player hunter is.
but, yankees fans decided he’s the gritty, gutty guy this team needs to get itself back to the series, so aaron rowand is now god’s gift to center field.
Bob from NJ and YanksSox –
Again, thank you. I do see the historical context now, and also the allowance for the different “types” of ballparks.
…”David Wells.”:http://www.nytimes.com/aponlin.....ended.html
Chicago Dave,
You’re missing the point. Obviously it isn’t “necessary” to have a guy like A Rod to be successful. But who do you recommend signing to replace A Rod’s production? Where are you going to find Bernie and Tino? The free agent market is going to be thin next year and we will have 0 right handed power bats without A Rod.
The point is – A Rod is better than any other 3b in the league, and is astronomically better than any other possible 3b option for next year. So our top priority should be to sign him. End of story. The Yankees next year without A Rod would be much worse off than with him, there is no argument. And I notice you have backed off your comments about Seattle and Texas getting better after A Rod left – this argument is just as illogical – give it up.
To answer your final question, signing A Rod is the only way to glory in 08. In a fantasy land, where we can get anyone, maybe we would go with a role type guy at 3b. But the fact is, with the declining production of our outfield, the zero production at 1b, the likely decline of Posada’s production, and the uncertain status of Giambi, we need A Rod in 08 to have a chance. Period.
If we don’t sign him, we’ll have to wait a few years for Miguel Cabrera to become a free agent and then overpay for him.
Chicago Dave –
You have a good point, but who are your O’Neill, Tino, Bernie, Strawberry, etc. going to be?
At this point in time, you would need several players to replace A-Rod. Several A+ quality players. Who have never played as a team before, so you’re gambling on the chemistry.
There’s no easy answer here, but right now, and looking at the immediate future, the Yankees are no “Murderer’s Row plus Cano,” and A-Rod is the only player they have hitting with power on a consistent basis. So, I think that’s why you start there. Not to mention, without him who are the right-handed bats?
Hmmm, YanksSox & Bob from NJ –
This Park Factor is really confusing me, because it seems to have to do more with the pitching staff that inhabits a particular park and not just the park itself. Looking at the Yankee Stadium Park factor from 2001 to the present, it fluctuated from being a hitter’s park to a pitcher’s park, but it seemed to be a pitcher’s park when the Yankees had a plus pitching staff, and now that pitching is not so great, it’s hitter’s park. The park itself has not changed. So, I’m a little dense here, and I don’t understand why the park factor is not a static statistic.
something must have happened to Pete. I hope his all right.
Where’s Pete? Hope he’s okay.
Bob from NJ – Actually, I didn’t “back off” my prior argument re: Seattle’s 115-win season after A-Rod left. Scroll up and see one of my prior posts, where I actually elaborated further on this same point.
And as far as “missing the point” about A-Rod…Sorry, but I’m not “missing” anything. Rather, I think you haven’t really read what I’ve been writing all day. But that’s OK…
“At this point in time, you would need several players to replace A-Rod. Several A+ quality players. Who have never played as a team before, so you’re gambling on the chemistry.”
Doreen:
Two things:
1) My point all along has been that you don’t absolutely “need” A-Rod’s numbers to win…So, it follow that you don’t need players that are going to completely replace his numbers. Morever, we don’t need exact replicas of Tino, O’Neill, etc. Rather, we need guys in the same general mold as Tino, O’Neill, etc. – guys with decent (but not HOF-caliber) talent who are good at situational hitting and otherwise mesh well as a team.
2) When you say “gambling on chemistry,” I guess you’re saying the team has awesome chemistry as it is… Can you really be serious? This team has no chemistry at all! So, I can only hope that the Yanks will “gamble” with the team chemistry this offseason…
They’ll be money coming off the books in 2009 to contribute towards A-Rod’s salary and those of Jorge, and Mariano and locking Cano & Wang into contracts. Gone will be Giambi, Mussina, and Abreu with the biggest contracts. After 2009 the contracts of Damon and Matsui will be over with provided they are still Yankees at that point.
At this point in time, we need A Rod to win. End of story. Name your thoughts on who we should sign next season then.
Also, scroll up to my post where I refuted your ridiculous argument. You have ignored my points, and I don’t expect you try and counter them, because you can’t.
Correllation does not imply causation.
Sweet – at this rate we have a 27 pitch perfect game!
OK, now thats dead.
I think the Yanks are playing a double game with A-Rod. On the surface they would like to re-sign him, he is the best player in the game without a doubt.
But Cashman, who is on the hotseat, has to punish A-Rod if he decides to leave. He has to make it look like A-Rod is an A-**** to Yankee fans and Steinbrenner or else he is going to be hooked.
If he signs his man, then he wins. But if Boras/A-Rod insist on exercising the option then Cashman is going to make them look like money-grubbing scum!!!
I like it.
Chicago Dave -
I didn’t say you get exact replicas of those players, I assumed you would understand that I meant those type of player. The point remains that you need several excellent players, whether they’re position players or bench players who can put up numbers “situationally.”
I also never said this team as constructed had great chemistry. Just that making a lot of changes at once is a gamble.
“Again, when I said “super mashersâ€? I meant a guy with crazy homerun and RBI totals every year (i.e. A-Rod). Again, you can’t seriously be putting all these players on the same level, can you? ”
if we are talking about HRs, no. when i hear the term “masher”, i don’t necessarily think 40+ HRs. i think of guys who put up OPS+ around 125 or higher. that means high OBP, lots of XBHs, even if that means 20 HRs instead of 45 HRs. i DO think of Bernie Williams in his prime. the guy was just a terrific hitter.
but if i misinterpreted your intended meaning, i apologize.
we are arguing semantics.