Duncan to be added to roster
-
-
- July
- 20
-
The Yankees plan to purchase the contract of DH Shelley Duncan today. No official word yet on who is being sent down.
UPDATE, 1:44 p.m.: The 27-year-old Duncan was hitting .295 with 25 homers and 79 RBI for Scranton. I’ve been told by scouts that he is a DH type with below major-league skills at first base. He also has played some left field.
He’s an interesting prospect in that the Yankees selected him in the second round in 2001 but never invited him to spring training. He spent four years in A ball. A red flag is that he has struck out 661 times in 2,650 at-bats. But he has hit 128 home runs.
Some right-handed power off the bench or as the DH could help the Yankees. Duncan has hit right-handers fairly well this season (.305/.394/.578).
With Johnny Damon struggling and Jason Giambi at least two weeks away, Duncan could help out as a DH.
This entry was posted
on Friday, July 20th, 2007 at 1:32 pm by Peter Abraham.
You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Hooray, the first female major leaguer!
First to comment – AWESOME. Great news.
Jake S – thanks for making me look like a fool. Anyway, I hope Johnny is headed to the DL
Edwar Ramirez or Kevin Thompson would seem to be the only serious candidates for a ticket to Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. My money’s on Thompson.
Shelley Duncan…wasn’t he the guy that stole the Glengarry leads?
I wonder if it’s Damon. The timing is very strange if it’s not. I expected Duncan to get a callup anyway, but not until after the doubleheader, where he would take DeSalvo’s spot on the roster (or Igawa if DeSalvo pitched really well and Igawa didn’t) as a bat off the bench/first baseman if Phillips had to be taken out. If he’s being called up right now, and considering he can really only DH or play first (and from what I hear, he’s not that good a first baseman), plus Phillips has been doing well…I don’t think this makes any sense unless Damon is headed for the DL. Not calling him up today. But I suppose they could have something else in mind.
Im going to take a guess and assume Damon will be sitting out a few games. I really hope Edwar Ramirez is not sent down, he just needs an opportunity.
How about Thompson going down? With Duncan at DH, Damon becomes back-up outfielder. I know there was talk about 12 pitchers but with a doubleheader this weekend and Igawa and DeSalvo pitching, they can’t go to 12.
I’d guess Thompson, yeah.
Pete,
What move are they making on the 40 man roster to get Shelley up?
Kevin Reese may get DFA’d i suppose.
With all the pitchers/position players coming off the DL they’ll have to do some juggling.
We don’t need 2.5 outfielders on the bench (Thompson, Damon, Cairo).
I hope Damon goes on the DL and head to Tampa to figure out why he can’t hit. If this continues, you have to try to get a lead off guy in the off season. Unless you think Melky can keep hitting at the rate he is, then he wouldn’t be bad there.
Thompson being sent down makes the most sense in this situation. Shelley is capable of playing outfield, however, although not admirably.
Al, I doubt Thompson goes down unless they think Damon is getting BETTER. As it stands right now with Damon DHing everyday, they can’t send down Thompson. Look at yesterday’s game. If Melky had been forced to come out in the second inning (I think that was when he was holding his stomach in pain), then Thompson had to come in or the Yanks lose the DH by bringing in Damon.
Edwar is possible, but why? He seemed a sure bet to get sent down for DeSalvo. Unless the Yankees plan to have Igawa pitch Game 1, and then send him down immediately after for DeSalvo. That would be a possibility that would make sense, I suppose.
You are going to have to do more then just put someone on the DL. Shelly Duncan is not part of the 40 man roster, so it will be interesting to see who is being kicked off the team/try to clear waivers. Unless they move like someone else to the 60 day DL; that’s an option too perphaps?
DFA Colter Bean. There is no need to waste a 40 man spot on him. I can throw 80 and miss the strike zone consistently- if you need someone like that- call me up- I will help out.
Wait, are you guys really thinking Thompson? Why does that make any sense? Damon is DHing everyday, so he’s not an outfielder sitting on the bench, he’s a DH. Cairo can probably play center in an emergency, but I really would hope that doesn’t happen. Same with Duncan. Cairo is the backup infielder, Duncan is a DH/first baseman. Maybe they CAN play some outfield positions in an emergency but that’s really not ideal.
Hey, it could very well be Thompson, but that makes zero sense to me especially when they saw Melky almost get taken out yesterday.
Edwar Ramirez maybe?
they should send down a pitcher.. remove bean or reese from the 40 man roster…
ramirez being sent down would be a friggin joke.. give the guy chance..
Both Giambi and Mientkiewicz are on the 15 day DL and can be moved to the 60 day. You move one now for Duncan, one in a couple weeks when Hughes comes back, but after that you’ve got to find someone to get rid of.
Why would you give up on Ramirez? He could be used down the road.
Maybe because he hasn’t been used in like 2 weeks??
Maybe Shelley up is the precursor to a deal about to happen.
Al Sheet
You are thinking of Jack Lemmon as Shelly Levene.
If Duncan plays OF, it certainly would NOT be in CF. I don’t even think RF. He would be LF only to go with 1b and his primary role…DH.
If he’s up, he DHs. Meaning Damon…(fill in the blank)…
I’m with Bill. You haven’t seen Ramirez in two weeks so he’ll go down until the lineup/rotation sorts itself out. Questions about Melky’s ab & Damon’s effectiveness warrants having Thompson on the 25-man.
Its about time Shelley got a call up. At this point, he’s either gonna make it or be a bust but you at least have to give him a shot and see what he’s got.
Damon is not going on the DL…I heard Duncan is a bad fielder….
They need to send down some junk relief pitcher..
i hope they DL damon
I’m just curious about this move though. The Yankees have Igewa and DeSalvo pitching on Saturday. Aren’t they going to keep the extra bullpen arm for the weekend?
Kyle Litke is right, send Igawa down right after he pitches. Your not going to mess his head up any worse than it is by sending him down to make room.
unfortunately, that junk relief pitcher (FarnsworthLESS) will be staying and Edwar will probably get sent down.
God, how I wish it were the opposite.
I’m guessing Thompson, they’ll want as many pitchers on the roster as possible for Saturday with two scrubs going. Damon gets demoted to expensive pinch runner/4th OF’er. That is definitely the right thing to do.
Oh and Peter, thanks for the inside info, I just picked him up in my fantasy league.
IGAWA + Minor League assignment = JOY in YANKEE LAND !
I would think it’ll be Thompson or will be dropped from the 40 man roster. I don’t think it’ll be Ramirez because he’ll probably be demoted to make room for DeSalvo.
There is no way they are sending down a pitcher (i.e. Ramirez) with a double header tomorrow. It has to be Kevin Thomson.
It’s about time.
Damon is not going on the DL. He says he’s healthy. Underperforming, but healthy. It’s a mental thing and he’ll find his way back. Guy’s been too good for too long.
Jeff NJ – I hope that’s a deep AL only league, or that you have no chance of winning so you’re messing around…
Maybe a deal is imminent – any takers on Farnsworth? Please?
I hope you’re in a deep fantasy league…do you really think Shelly Duncan’s going to come up and get all the AB’s and accumulate a lot of stats?? Don’t get me wrong, I would love it to happen that way, but let’s be realistic
Rotoworld is reporting it now, claiming The Journal News as it’s source. Nice one Peter. I wonder if he is being showcased?
I understood as a 6 year minor leaguer he would have been a free agent after this year, how long does he have to be in the majors to still be allowed to be free? Or does the fact that he is in the majors just tie him to the Yankees now for a few years?
It’s a deep AL Only keeper league fantasy league where each of the 10 teams protects 19 players, so whenever a minor leaguer gets called up you jump at him and hope he gets 131 at bats. I agree it’s a bit of a stretch to think he’ll get that, but I only cut Shea Hillenbrand to add him, talk about dead weight.
Damon and the team both say he’s healthy. Seems unlikely they’ll put him on the DL when they’ve both publicly stated he’s fine.
It’s possible that Damon’s having difficulty transitioning to the DH spot. He’s probably never done it before for any significant period of time. It’s a different approach to the game DH’ing and he may not feel comfortable.
Even Giambi’s splits between first base/DH have been significant in the past. He’s been more productive when playing the field.
If Duncan is the DH and an outfielder gets hurt Damon goes in and you don’t lose the DH. If Damon is playing DH and an outfielder gets hurt, Cairo becomes the back-up outfielder for the day. Works for me.
Jeff,
That’s a good question on Shelley’s impending 6 year minor league free agency. From the comments his dad dave duncan made it sounded like Shelley was probably going to be signing elsewhere after the season.
Don’t know how him being called up impacts that.
Many are assuming it’s Edwar. Cliff C. at Bronx Banter for example.
I dont think it will be Ramirez sent down because the Yanks are going to need all the bullpen help they can muster with DeSalvo and Igawa going tomorrow.
It will be Kevin Thompson going back to Scranton.
What’s the timing on these moves? Does someone have to be sent down first? Simultaneous? Is there a grace period? Thanks in advance.
Oops, not really, he was talking about when Desalvo gets brought up, not for this Shelley move. My mistake.
yeah, locakes, everyone seems to have forgotten that desalvo coming up means there has to be another move. so basically 2 people have to go down, 1 for desalvo and 1 for duncan.
He could be a Shane Spencer-type of call-up. Like 10 HRs in the next couple of months (Spencer’s 1998 stats).
Bill, I thought you meant to defer Edwar, not to just send him down. If thats the case, I’m with you and assume the Yankees might be also. In that case, they would just move Giambi to the 60 day DL, or Hughes? Whichever one I guess will be out longer
Christmas in July!!!!111!!!
Damon SAYS he’s healthy but he really hasn’t hit a ball hard in awhile. It’s not his lack of hits to me, that could just be a slump, it’s the fact that he’s hitting balls weakly. Maybe he is healthy and it’s just mental, but a lot of guys say they’re healthy until we find out they aren’t. We’ll see what happens.
then with hughes, giambi, and meinky coming back, and possibly karstens/rasner, it’s gunna get pretty messy. they’re gunna have to be giving people away just to clear space.
I’d love to see how this guy fits on this team.
The backup OF spot should be someone with speed and defense.
The DH spot is already taken (albeit by a struggling vet who happens to be our lead off hitter).
I’m not saying it’s not good to get some new blood up here, but how is this guy going to be used.
If you’re benching Damon for him, you now have to find a new lead off hitter which will probably be Jeter which means he won’t hit 2nd and then you need a 2nd place hitter….you can’t just move everyone up a spot.
I’d rather give Damon the TB and KC series to see if he can get hot than plug this guy in there.
And I can’t imagine he’s here to replace Andy Phillips who is contributing with his bat and glove, since Duncan is Phelps-like at 1b.
It should be interesting to see how they use him.
At any rate, he improves the bench by adding a power threat.
If this means Edwar goes, that is wrong though. The kid deserved a chance to fail which he hadn’t done before being sent back to AAA. I know we can’t afford to let him implode, but he looked to be an interesting bullpen arm.
You can’t DL a guy that isn’t hurt. Damon is no longer hurt. He is just slumping.
Thompson will be the odd man out. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Duncan as the DH against JP Howell tomorrow.
Usually, I would say a pitcher needs to go when they are at 13 pitchers. But, with DeSalvo and Igawa going tomorrow, they are going to need a 13th pitcher.
I am beginning to come around on the Chamberlain to the bullpen idea.
I asked a couple of scouts I know today about taking a kid like Chamberlain and putting him in the bullpen. Too risky, would it hurt his development, etc?
Both said no. In fact, both said they would do it, given what’s on the market right now.
Their argument was, if a guy can throw two pitches for strikes, a fastball and slider, which Chamberlain can do, he doesn’t need another pitch out of the ‘pen.
The key though is to be able to throw both pitches for strikes in any situation. I was told if he can, then its not going to hurt him to go to the bullpen, as long as they don’t overtax him.
15-20 pitches per appearance, twice a week, is not overdoing it. Or so I was told.
If that’s the case, I can now see the merits of giving it a shot.
Vizcaino has pitched well for two months now. He can handle 8th innings. Chamberlain is pitching tonight in New Britain. If he comes out of that start ok, I wouldn’t mind seeing him in the 7th inning slot. I learned a lot today about pitching and, more importantly, how teams try to protect pitchers from injury.
Hope it works out for Duncan. I have my doubts but, at least the kid is getting a shot. I always like the Yankees trying to solve problems from within. It saves money and a lot of AWFUL contracts if you can solve issues from within.
I love the Glengarry reference … anyway … interesting time for this as they will have to make a couple of moves tomorrow and will need to move someone off the 40 man roster … wondering if this indeed would be an indication they have or are very close to finalizing a deal. If so I would imagine it would be one involving a prospect or two … can only hope and dream that Teixeria is coming east today!!!
so a friend of mine was telling me that he heard BT on ESPN1050 take a call a caller who said his buddy was a golfing buddy of Johnny Damon’s father or something, and this guy had insider information that Johnny hates NY and his heart is not in baseball anymore. after the first season he told his father he wanted out of NY but his pop told him at least play 3 of the 4 years. and then later on Damon realized he really doesn’t want to play baseball
anymore. so, that could have been a load of crap, but then BT said he heard the same thing from a very reliable source. that Damon will more than likely retire at the end of this or next season. either way, he won’t be here for his whole contract.
it’s a whole lot of a friend of a friend stuff, but the way he’s playing, he certainly looks like a shell of his former self… he looks awful and tired on the field, he’s making mental errors in the field, and he sounds like he’s got no energy, at least to me, in interviews after the games. i dont think its out of the realm of possibility to question if his heart is really in it anymore.
you can DL a guy who is “hurt,” absolutely.
Thompson will be demoted for Shelley. After the first game of the doubleheader, Ramirez will be demoted for DeSalvo. IMO
They don’t have to activate DeSalvo until before the second game. I don’t believe he has to be on the roster for Game 1.
Let’s say Igawa is awful again. They can keep Edwar, send Igawa down, and activate DeSalvo to take Igawa’s spot on the roster.
Depending on how well Karstans does on Sunday, and DeSalvo tomorrow, one of those guys can start Thursday night in KC. That’s when they will the 5th starter again.
I think Hughes is in Scranton for two starts so he is not an option.
Perhaps that’s why Igawa is starting Game 1?
I like Johnny Damon, but if his heart is not in it and he chooses to be traded or get out of his contract then that wouldn’t be such a bad thing. He has no arm to speak of. That’s only if that stuff is true. Lord help us if he’s pulling a Vince Carter. If he has any interest of playing anywhere else for some serious money, then he better start playing better. That’s if that’s true. Grain of salt and all that. Could be just going through a phase.
The funniest thing I read today. That Octavio Dotel is a highly coveted player in the trade market. Can you imagine if we kept him? Then Kyle could rest his back as much as he wanted to.
SJ, good point, Igawa may just be gone after the 1st game. That would be great. I was thinking they would see how DeSalvo pitches and then decide between the 2 for the starter next week, but you could be right. I mean Hughes is very close, be interesting to see where they slot him in.
SJ44,
What did the scouts think about moving Joba to the pen in terms of development of a third pitch and more arm strength?
I think he has the two pitches needed to succeed in the pen. I concerned about how that third pitch develops if he never has to throw it coming out of the pen or is not confident enough in it to use it.
So we’re going to carry no backup outfielders? I’m really still not getting this “Demote Kevin Thompson!” thing.
And again, you guys don’t know for sure that Damon isn’t hurt. What they say on the pre/post game isn’t necessarily reality. If he’s not 100% but they’re planning to keep playing him, they may mention it offhand but they’re usually not going to rush out to tell everyone (including opposing teams) how hurt Damon is, he can’t hit a ball hard, please don’t take advantage of us. Maybe he’s healthy and just hitting really awful, but maybe he’s hurt and they want to give him some time. We’ll see. It may just be Edwar and Igawa (after Game 1) going down for Duncan and DeSalvo. That’s possible although why the Yanks would call up essentially a DH is beyond me unless they plan to sit Damon a lot more. But nothing else makes much sense to me. Sending down Thompson makes zero sense unless Johnny Damon’s awful slump has convinced Joe it’s time for him to return to center field, and Melky will go back to the 4th outfielder role (which would be an awful decision).
Don’t get my hopes up with this “Damon retiring” baloney. Right now that looks like it would be a Godsend, but I don’t see that coming to fruition. $13 million per year is a lot of money, and even if he has to ride the bench for it, I think he’d rather do that than get out of baseball and give it up. Besides, given the market, if Damon turns it around his contract isn’t quite as bad. We could certainly make do without him, but if nothing else, a healthy and productive Damon at 2/26 isn’t an unreasonable trading chip.
Kyle, you’re assuming Damon is hurting, all indications are he is not. He makes the perfect 4th OF/pinch runner (albeit an expensive one).
I’m completely stunned..I can’t believe they are actually giving him a shot – even if it is for trade purposes.
I just wanted to say I’m loving the “Hughes your Daddy?” username. LOL
http://www.clubbronx.com
This guy sounds like the next Adam Dunn. No exceptional basic skills except for a powerful bat that will either crush the ball, or miss. His average is higher, but it could drop when he reaches the majors. There are teams out there, contenders, who need power in their lineup. Unfortunately, most are in the NL, where a DH is useless. If they can turn this guy into a first baseman, he’ll be a subject of many trade offers. Until then, he looks like he can improve the Yankees slightly. Read our section on Contenders, pretenders, or dead-man-walking to see who needs what at the trade deadline.
http://bryle.freehostia.com
I don’t buy that Damon retiring stuff.
I hope after Saturday I won’t have to watch Igawa pitch again this year. I’m hoping for Karstens to take his spot his next start, and then Hughes from that point forward with Karstens moving to a bullpen role.
This year? How about “ever”. I have that little confidence in him.
Shelly is just like his brother Chris. Extremely streaky. He strikes out wayyyy to much and plays lousy defense. He’s a decent stop gap until Giambi and Damon return to glory but defintely not in the long term plan.
CB,
I did ask about that. From a stamina standpoint, they said it won’t matter. Its not like they were going to extend him much more (pitch count-wise) this season.
Re: adding a third pitch. He has been working on a change up all season. Sometimes its good, sometimes it isn’t.
I was told he can still work on that stuff in bullpen sessions. It shouldn’t hurt his overall development.
Basically, the argument for using him in 7th innings for the last two months of the season is, how many more innings are they looking for him to pitch the rest of the way?
Let’s say they are looking at 10 more starts for him, if he was staying in the minors the rest of the season. That’s 60-70 more innings.
I was told, if he pitches 30-40 more innings out of the bullpen in NY (and that may be a little high) the last couple of months of the season, it could actually be less taxing for him.
The KEY, and this was emphasized to me several times, you can abuse him in the ‘pen. In other words, using him 3 or 4 times in 5 days, or warming him up and not using him. That’s what gets guys hurt.
Basically, if he warms up, they have to use him.
The X Factor is, how long it takes for him to warm up and be ready? We don’t have any information on that so, that’s an unknown.
fantstic !! so many people on this blog have wanted shelly up . even if its just a try-out or temporary . wtf , why not give him a shot ? i love it . now , if torre can just find a way to put him in the line-up we’d be all set .
I’m sorry, but wouldn’t the best place for Joba to learn a 3rd pitch and master it would be in the bull pen working with Guidry, Kerrigan, Mo, Rocket, Mussina, etc. all at his disposal?
If the guy can get people out and give us a power arm in the pen this season, I’d rather him come up and learn from the best.
Mo and Clemens have both shown that they like to work with youngsters and I can’t imagine the coaches we have at the major league level can’t work with this kid in his throw days on a 3rd pitch.
As for this suggestion about Damon’s heart not being into it , part of me buys it. This guy was the heart and soul of the Red Sox, probably a bigger character than Ortiz at that time in Boston. He took the money and if he regrets it, boo hoo. Personally, I just think he misses his buddy Giambi. If the Yanks trade for Millar, watch Damon start hitting with one of his “idiot” friends back in the fold.
If there’s even a shred of truth to what the person posted about him wanting out and not enjoying it, Torre and Cash must also know/suspect this and that could be why Shelley “Peter Pan” Duncan got the call.
I kind of think it’s all BS though — I think he’s having a tough season, but I also think he’s got some magic left in him yet. He was a force for us last season and he looked to be having a lot of fun playing in pinstripes.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/07.....e_king.htm
Article about scouts at the stadium to look at our used goods. “The Yankees don’t want to give up the kids, and if they don’t do that, they aren’t going to get anything,” an NL scout said. Stay the course BC! There’s nothing spectacular out there anyway. Gagne-chemically broken down. Lidge-mentally broken down. Texeira-if you build it he will come.
Funny how the RSN think they can get Gagne AND Texiera. I don’t see them giving up Buchholz & Jacoby.
I actually typed ever, before editing it. I don’t ever want to see him pitch again – its painstaking to watch.
I am just assuming somehow, someway, they will get him to improve his mechanics and body language – or just outright cut the guy.
It will be interesting because I’m sure there will be lots of internal pressure to make it work since they signed him for the next several years, but there are so many good arms coming up. Next year we know we have Wang, Hughes, I’d assume Pettite, Mussina is signed – and the prospects are going to be knocking on the door waiting to be called up- should be a very interesting and exciting scenario.
michael kay has said that damon is healthy and is now in the process of retuning his swing with hitting coach kevin long .
Jeff, I disagree that all indications are he isn’t hurting. The fact that he hasn’t hit a ball hard in practically a month (I exaggerate for effect of course but I’m not that far off) is a big indication for me that something’s up. It’s not that he’s struggling to get hits, that happens to lots of guys no matter how healthy they are. It’s that nearly everytime he gets a bat on the ball, it’s a weak swing that has me concerned. Torre and Damon say he isn’t hurting, but I’m not so sure that, if they planned to have him keep playing for now, they’d be so quick to rush out and announce he’s perfectly fine. Maybe Damon is fine, I’m really not discounting that possibility. He may very well be and he just sucks.
If he’s healthy, then he’s healthy. Maybe they can have him ride the bench for awhile then, because the fact that he can’t even hit the ball hard right now is hurting.
The next Adam Dunn for the (prorated) MLB minimum? I’ll take that.
SJ44, what you posted is certainly intriguing, re using Joba in the pen. However, I also think it would end up disastrous. I’m not a Torre knocker in general, but would you trust him with the health of our top pitching prospect in the pen, knowing full well that if he overuses him or uses him wrong, he could never be the same? To me, that seems like a recipe of disaster. If he swears to moderate himself, and Cashman lays out some groundrules that Torre 100% has to abide by, it could work. If Torre differs from those groundrules, then the experiment is over, and Joba goes back down, end of story. They have to be that insistent, otherwise this could be disastrous.
Mel,
I agree with you. There’s no way RSN is getting both Gagne and Teixeira. I’m leaning towards them getting neither. Texas wants too much in return. I think a more realistic destination for Teixeira would be the Dodgers.
Gagne won’t be a setup guy. The Red Sox aren’t getting him, and unfortunetly neither are we.
will never be able to look at this guy without thinking of “sandy duncan”. the material on this blog is the best.
i have a queasy sense there’s more to this damon situation that is being let on, something personal or physical. something is way wrong.
how’s about trying igawa in middle relief. he does have fight, and more than a few times has bent but not broken. his ability to modulate planes could make him strikeout potential, and perhaps he is the new mendoza.
another perfect brother-in-law is villone. might be time to fire up the grill. unless they know something about ramirez that we don’t, give him a shot. thought we must remember that tj beam was all the rage at AA and we know where that rocket landed.
now guys get “DFAd,” remember when they were “put on waivers,” and in my school yard, you were “chucked.”
I don’t think he’s hurt and I don’t think his “heart” isn’t into it.
Sorry, I am not buying it.
If his heart wasn’t into it, he wouldn’t have played through his injuries this year. He would have just accepted a move to the DL. That’s the easy way out when your heart isn’t into it. See Carl Pavano as Exhibit A of that fact.
He is just having a bad year. It happens. Happened to Arod last year.
The guy is always hustling and playing as hard as he can. I haven’t seen any dip in effort. You see dips in effort when somebody’s heart isn’t into it.
Sometimes, its not a complex thing. A guy is just having an off-season and is trying to dig his way out of it.
The great thing about baseball is, if he plays well for the next couple of months, nobody will remember the struggle.
Still time for him to get it together and help this team the rest of the way.
Also, he ain’t leavin’ 26 million guaranteed dollars on the table. Just not happening.
Chris,
We’re talking about a manager who swore that Mo would be used only in the 9th. Things happen and he has to lean on the more reliable pitchers. Although I think Torre would get tackled before he was allowed to abuse Joba. He’s the new crown jewel of the Yankee –universe–organization.
SJ44,
Thanks so much. That’ very helpful information and it does make sense.
The Yankee decision on what to do with Joba may be the single most important decision hanging over the entire organization.
All organizations make mistakes. The Yankees cannot afford to make a mistake with Joba. Joba is where you draw the line I think – it’s unacceptable to make a mistake with him.
Given how late it is in the season I can see how the issue of innings pitched wouldn’t be as great a concern. The marginal difference won’t be that great as the scout said. That’s logical.
The point on overwork really concerns me, however.
If they’re in the thick of the pennant race the temptation to use Joba often will be great. There’s no way around it.
He’ll be their best relief pitcher next to Mo. How do they restrain themselves from using him?
The other issue is Torre. I generally am a strong Torre supporter but his handling of the bullpen is clearly a weakness.
Do we trust Torre with Joba in the pen? The thought makes me very weary.
SJ – another question for you – what is your opinion on Alan Horne? Could he be a guy they give a shot at the pen? They seem very reluctant to even move him to Scranton but he seems to have very good stuff.
I don’t think we should put Joba in the bullpen because we will be running the risk of Torre hurting him due to overuse. We’ll need Joba next year and beyond because Clemens and Pettite (player option) could be gone. Moose will be leaving after next season. Joba has the potential to be an ace but is projected as a #2 or #3 starter right now. This team is old in the rotation. We can use Kevin Whelan, Chris Britton, Jim Brower, Ross Ohlendorf, or Jeff Kennard. Leave Joba where he is.
Yea Kevin Whelan from single A good one
I don’t really trust Gagne to stay healthy anyways.
If this guy stayed relatively healthy at all, the Dodgers would have never let him go anywhere.
Plus Whelan is a starter now.
if gagne was available it would be a no brainer his contract is up at the end of the yr. he makes $6 mill. is injury prone but so far this yr. he is almost lights out……
Whelan is most certainly not a starter long-term. He’ll be getting back to Trenton any day now.
Peter Gammons from his blog on Joba and the Yankees:
As odd as it may seem, Brian Cashman in many ways is the most relaxed of the GM bunch. On Friday morning, the Yankees are six games behind the Indians in the loss column for the wild card and seven games behind the Red Sox in the AL East (in New England, that’s Anxt Legion), and Cashman on Wednesday took a leisurely drive to Trenton, N.J., to watch Philip Hughes. Cashman is looking to add a first baseman if it isn’t Shea Hillenbrand, find someone to take Kyle Farnsworth, maybe move a Scott Proctor for depth (the NY Post has been on Wilson Betemit), and await the reconstruction of the Yankee pitching staff.
“Unfortunately for the rest of us,� says one AL executive, “the most important addition before the trading deadline will be Hughes.� Cashman watched Hughes dominate on Wednesday, and will give him a couple of starts at Scranton to build up his pitch count and arm strength.
And as Hughes fits in with Chien-Ming Wang, Roger Clemens, Mike Mussina and Andy Pettitte, he is not the only key piece that may fit in place for the final six to eight weeks of the season. There is a possibility that the Yankees will bring fellow Trentonian Joba Chamberlain up to audition for the Joel Zumaya role, and as he gets healthy, Ross Ohlendorf may soon be ready to fit in the middle of the bullpen as well.
Before suffering a back injury, Ohlendorf — who pitched with Chris Young for Scott Bradley at Princeton — looked as if he could be a first-rate middle reliever after coming over from Arizona in the Johnson deal. But Chamberlain has now become the talk of the game. The Yanks’ second pick in the 2006 draft out of Nebraska has drawn comparisons to a cross between Zumaya and Bobby Jenks as a reliever, and Justin Verlander as a starter. He’s 8-1 with 108 strikeouts in 74 2/3 innings between Tampa and Trenton. “He’s 95-99 for seven innings as a starter,� says one scout. “He has Verlander stuff, but if it fell apart, he’d still be Jonathan Broxton.�
http://insider.espn.go.com/esp.....mons_peter
Johnny is an enigma. Played great for us last year even though he was stuck in a clubhouse full of grouchy, surly stiffs (RJ, Sheff, Moose) Even did well when he started DH’ing. He really liked it, so I don’t think that’s the problem. You gotta remember that he had the mysterious LOA in the spring, so personal issues are a definite possibility.
I think it’s pressure. The team was doing bad, and he knows that how he leads off sets the tone of the game. Johnny will be o.k. Just needs a couple of sessions with C-Rod.
Whelan has been starting to work on his mechanics, but he has not been converted to a starter (neither has Claggett).
Kevin Whelan has a lot of promise but is in no way ready for the major leagues right now.
He’s a converted catcher and has only been pitching for a few years.
A month ago he completely lost his mechanics while coming out of the pen in Trenton. His K:BB was approaching 1. Given how many people he strikes out, that’s a ton of walks.
He went to Tampa to work with Nardi Contreras and the results have been fantastic. He’s starting right now to dial in his mechanics. He’ll be back in the pen in Trenton. He’s not ready.
Fred WWP
didn’t Damon take a “personal day” or two earlier in the year and go to Florida? Somehow, I recall that. Anyway if it did happen, perhaps there is something personal going on that is affecting him.
“On Friday morning, the Yankees are six games behind the Indians in the loss column for the wild card and seven games behind the Red Sox in the AL East”
again, anyone says Gammons is not biased is kidding themselves. Boston and Cleveland have IDENTICAL records right now…
We’ve found a pulse…
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=2943655
No wonder he’s the best owner according the players’ poll.
Damon may be struggling, and he may be hurting the team right now, but there is nothing in his track record that suggests he would quit and bail out on a struggle. And because of that, I have trouble buying this rumor that he says he hates NY and his heart isn’t playing baseball anymore. It may be ‘inside information’, but doesn’t smell right.
Not only for the financial reasons, but also because this guy has never quit, I would be shocked if it were true and he just walked away from the game.
CB,
My opinion on Horne is that he is a solid prospect. Probably a solid #3 in a major league rotation when he is ready.
Is he an untouchable? Not to me. But, it has to be in the right deal.
I like his stuff but, I like his makeup more. The guy really battles out there.
However, from a stuff and overall package, he isn’t in the class of Hughes or Chamberlain and is a half notch below Kennedy. But, a very, very good prospect who may be a guy they end up using as trade bait down the line.
Hughes and Chamberlain are elite, elite guys. Verlander, Zumaya, King Felix tupe elite. They are that good.
I like Kennedy more than others because the guy knows how to pitch. He reminds me of a young Mike Mussina, minus the excuses and quirks.
I put Horne and Ohlendorf in the next level. Those two guys are good and their stuff is better than Clippard, Wright, Brent Smith and Jason Jones, IMO.
SJ44 – Is Marquez a notch below those guys (Clippart/Wright)?
Maybe Giambi will be suspended.
saw this on another board
* Jorge Cantu seems to want out of Tampa Bay; he’s dissatisfied with his lack of playing time this year. He was recently designated for assigment to Durham again. Most likely, the only reason he’s still in the organization is that Andrew Friedman couldn’t get anything useful for him via trade. 117 RBIs just don’t have the pull they did in the past.
But even if he doesn’t really have a position and doesn’t draw walks, there should be at least a little interest in a 25 year-old with good power. Cantu slugged .497 with 28 HR in 2005; he still owns those skills somewhere. He’s never actually had a full season at the Triple A level. Maybe it’s time to take a step back before his development moves forward.
I think almost any team would be well served to buy low on Cantu, figure out one position he can play tolerably, and get him back on track.
why not get him as a utliity guy?
Turn Two – this friend of a friend thing is only believable if you replace “Johnny Damon” with “Carl Pavano”. Suddenly it becomes downright gospel.
I think Marquez is at the next level. Scouts call guys like Marquez, “organizational guys”. Good pitchers but, not elite prospects.
I think the guys I mentioned, plus a healthy Humberto Sanchez, are all better prospects.
I think Marquez is ok but, I wouldn’t put him in the class of the other guys. I don’t think he ever pitches for the Yankees. I could see him included in a deal down the line for help in other areas of the team.
I like Daniel McCutcheon more than I like Marquez. However, I have to see McCutcheon pitch at AA before putting him in a higher catagory though.
McCutcheon and Edwar have the best changeups in the organization. McCutcheon was teaching Joba his change in Tampa this year. Its a NASTY pitch.
But, its nasty to single A hitters. I have to see how he does when he moves up the ladder.
SJ44,
Agreed with your assessment on Horne. Very talented, but definitely not in the Hughes/ Chamberlain stratosphere (which isn’t really a criticism at all).
One of the things I really like about Horne is how much he’s had to overcome to get himself back in position to pitch in the majors.
Highest rated pitcher in his high school class, blows out his elbow in college, recovers his velocity but not his command for several years. Finally puts it back together this year. (I hope the yankees sign Chris Carpenter their 17th round draft choice and in a couple of years his story sounds like Horne’s).
I ask about him in the bull pen because as you said besides Hughes/ Chamberlain he may have the best arm of any of the yankee minor leaguers who are relatively close to being major league ready. He has the power fastball that may work out of the pen (though it’s obviously not in the same league as Joba’s).
If we have to rush someone to the pen from the minors, I’d almost rather take a risk with Horne than Joba.
I wish Ohlendorf would start pitching better in Scranton. Just OK again last night. I like his arm and he’d be the guy along with Britton who could help in the pen now.
I ask about
The problem with trading with Tampa Bay is, they don’t like trading with the Yankees.
Not only are they in their own division, they occupy the same town from a fan standpoint. There are more Yankee fans in Tampa than DRays fans.
Imagine the Rays trading Cantu, or anybody else, to the Yankees and that player plays well in NY? They would never hear the end of it in Tampa.
That’s why I think its doubtful we ever see the Rays do a deal with the Yankees.
Jennifer,
I like Cantu, especially if you could “buy low” on him. He can play but just got squeezed because the Rays don’t have enough spot for all of their talented players after signing Iwamura.
If the yankees could pick him up with giving up the farm that would be great.
A Tampa Yankee trade makes sense because Tampa has a surplus of position players but little pitching, especially in the pen.
Ty Winnington would be a terrific pick up for the yankees as people have talked about.
I was surprised at Girardi’s comments re: Damon’s “coming around” and also at some posters saying there is “no indication he’s hurt.”
I’m not a hitting coach, but Damon looks totally different to me at the plate, and not just because he isn’t hitting. His swing appears to be coming entirely from his bottom hand and he seems more upright than in the past. I don’t see him transferring load AT ALL, and would be very surprised if there isn’t a problem somewhere in his back or legs that we aren’t hearing about.
I think with Ohlendorf, its important to see his inning to inning splits. If he pitches well in the first couple of innings, then he can be helpful in the ‘pen.
In the games I have noticed when he has pitched, it seems he struggles with lineups the second time around. If that’s true, then it seems the bullpen could be the best place for him.
Joba’s stuff translates to the ‘pen better than Horne’s IMO. Joba’s fastball alone is scary good. In one of the games I saw him pitch this year, he touched 100 four times on the gun, was at 97-98 through 5 innings and nobody got a good swing on him. That’s just scary good. Horne is more of a pitcher with a good fastball but, not Joba’s fastball.
thanks as always SJ for taking the time to answer my questions
It is a very exciting time to be a Yankee fan. Granted I’m only 24, but I can’t imagine many franchises having so many potential front of the rotation guys in the minors at once.
Could Joba be our closer after Mo? Or is he destined to be a starter? Just about everybody has him penciled into the rotation soon, but why not have him set up for Mo until he retires and then step in as closer?
Good points on ohlendorf. His weakness is supposed to be a lack of a well rounded arsenal to accompany his power sinker. Having a guy coming out of the pen who gets ground balls and some strike outs would be ideal.
You look at Joba now and it’s hard figure how he fell to them.
Years from now we’re going to look back and the most important personnel move the Yankees may have ever made was losing Tom Gordon to the Phillies.
They were awarded a first round draft pick and a supplemental for Gordon.
The first round pick – Ian Kennedy. The supplemental – Joba.
That’s not a bad “trade” for a 38 year old reliever. Even if it meant having to resort to signing Farnsworth.
Speaking of prospects, and future closers:
I remember last year prior to his injury the talk was that J.B. Cox was the most likely future closer. Any word on how he is progressing? I think he is out this entire year?
Was it TJ surgery?
i think the 2 needs the yanks have for this trade deadline would be a right handed power hitter off the bench and relief pitching . calling up shelly duncan may solve one of these trades leaving cashman open to try to aquire a quality reliever . some pitchers that come to mind are eric gagne and scott linebrink . but who knows and only time will tell .
CB:
I didn’t realize both Kennedy and Joba came from losing Gordon. That is pretty nuts. Kind of a good trivia question years down the line if both Kennedy and Joba pan out. A lopsided non-trade trade.
ND Yank,
At this point I think they want to keep him as a starter because he has the potential to be a #1-2 guy, which is much more valuable than a setup man. They are probably considering him in the setup role this year because they are desperate and/or no one is available via trade.
J.B. Cox did have surgery. I thought Pete said it was ligament repair, not replacement(TJ surgery). I always thought of him as a set up guy, a Jeff Nelson in his prime type.
Peter Gammons: “Cashman is looking to add a first baseman if it isn’t Shea Hillenbrand, find someone to take Kyle Farnsworth, maybe move a Scott Proctor for depth (the NY Post has been on Wilson Betemit), and await the reconstruction of the Yankee pitching staff.”
And the Yankees get back as good, or better? That’s what’s implied in even CONTEMPLATING those moves. Completely unlikely between now and the end of the season. Possible in the offseason. Maybe necessary before the beginning of the 2008 season.
Whats the deal with Ian Kennedy? Tonight is his night to pitch, but Milb has the starters listed as Horne for game 1 and Joba for game 2. Colter Bean is listed as the starter in Scranton, yet he is usually a reliever. Is Kennedy pitching in Scranton tonight? Or will he just come out of the pen once Horne or Joba is finished?
ND Yank,
Scouts have talked about Joba as a reliever often.
I think that would be wasting much of his talent.
He can throw near full velocity even at the end of games. He loses almost nothing from the beginning to the end. He’s a bit like Verlander in that way and I think that’s part of why Gammons keeps comparing him to Verlander.
Detroit people say that even though Zumaya can throw to greater maximum veolcity than Verlander, Verlander has a better fastball. Zumaya can throw to 103-104 for an inning but can’t sustain his velocity.
In his no hitter Verlander was clocked at 102 in the ninth!
Joba has similar stamina and stuff on his fastball.
That ability would go to waste in the closer’s role.
We talk a lot about talented young yankee starters but they have a number of very talented relievers as well. One of them will probably emerge as Mariano’s successor.
I suggested calling up Duncan over a month ago. Now DL the pathetic Johnny Damon.
Quick question regarding the pitching prospects. From what I recall the top ones (even including Marquez) are all righties. I hope I’m wrong, could someone confirm that?
I don’t really see the need to add a 1B. Phillips has been playing well, Doug is not too far off and Giambi isn’t far off coming back to DH full time hopefully. Then it looks like Damon is a bench player.
How many 1B can we have? I’m fine with 1B being primarily a defensive role this year with Phillips / Doug when he comes back and Cairo the occasional game – Especially if Phillips continues his streak of big hits.
Jordan,
Yes, all the top pitching prospects the Yanks have are right-handers. No worries cause the Yanks are going to sign Johan after the ‘08 season.
Jonathan C.,
I understand that this year would be about being a set up guy. It’s either that or stay a starter in the minors and not help the big club.
But in the future is a closer more important than a #1 or #2 though? We’ve had a few #1’s and #2’s over this run and none have been more valuable to us than Mo. Just a thought.
What about grooming Robertson to be the set up man or even closer in the future? His numbers are fantastic, and all though that doesn’t always translate, he seems like he’ll be a legitimate bullpen arm in the future.
Johnny Damon doesnt seem like he is too much hurting anymore. He can run pretty good and all but he just cant hit. Perhaps he is just getting old and he cant get any healthier as his body is just breaking down
Dave K,
It’s nuts but Tom Gordon (throwing up in the playoffs tom gordon) did translate into Kennedy and Joba. Cashman and Oppenheimer did a great job on that.
That’s one of the reason’s why I didn’t want them to trade Abreu this year just for the sake of making a move. He’s also a Type A player and I think they’ll get a first rounder and a supplemental for him (though with his buy out, etc, that becomes complicated).
Jordan,
One weakness with the yankee system is definitely a lack of lefty arms. The lefty in their system with the best stuff may be Angel Reyes (on the Staten Island NY-Penn team). Good stuff but no command and if having a very poor season. Other than that they Michael Dunn is a converted outfielder who’s put up good numbers at low A charleston. Shown some potential but is very raw and already 22.
The yanks top relief arms in no particular order are Robertson, Melancon(if healthy when he retursn from TJ), Cox, and Whelan. From that group we should find somebody to “replace” ‘MO. Maybe you can throw Humberto in their as well as his future seems to the in the ‘pen.
The next obvious question is – when Humberto Sanchez comes back next year for AAA, how will he rank among the prospects?
I don’t know that much about Humberto, I just remember him from the ‘06 futures game and he looked pretty damn good then…so if he returns to previous form he could be a great addition to the pen. I don’t see him sticking as a starter unless their are a lot of injuries. Guys like Joba, Hughes, Horne and Clippard have all passed by him this year.
How Humberto Sanchez will do next year is a good question.
A ton of people have killed Cashman for the Sheffield trade but Sanchez was an near elite level prospect.
Last year he was clocked at time in the 95 mph range. That’s ridiculous – why? – because when they went in and scoped his elbow it looked far worse than they were guessing or what it looked like on his MRI. The ligament was probably torn already last year when the Tigers shut him down.
Sanchez was throwing in the mid 90’s last year with a possibly partially torn ligament. His velocity could in theory increase after TJ.
The tough part will be his command. That seems to be the last thing to return after TJ. It took Horne more than three years to regain some control after his procedure.
We’ll have to wait on Sanchez but the pay off could very big.
Also – Cox had a ligament repair (only partially torn) and could be close to starting to throw again.
Uggh – please don’t waste Joba’s talents as a setup man. He’d be much more valuable as a starter.
Speaking of Sheffield, if anyone saw that Real Sports interview, he not only admitted to using steroids, but he said that Bonds got him into it. How is that Bud isn’t demanding that Sheff speak to Mitchell like he did Giambi? Sheff should have the threat of suspension over his head if he doesn’t talk. And he can’t even blame his race as Jason went through the same thing. How is this not a story?
It’s unlikely Sanchez will do much for the Yanks next season.
He just had TJ a couple of months ago. The recovery time for that procedure is something like 18 months — according to Dr. James Andrews (who is the top dog in the field) himself.
I wouldn’t expect to see Sanchez in the Bronx until 2009 if everything does well.
I think Sanchez could be the future closer. To me, of all the prospects, his stuff translates best to closer material. Certainly setup material.
The Yankees see Chamberlain as a starter. But, for two months this season, having him setup isn’t bad because you want that elite arm to help you down the stretch. If, of course, he is up to the task.
I guess I see it this way. Do I want to see Joba Chamberlain given a shot (if he is healthy and ready to go) in the 7th or 8th inning or do I want to watch Bruney and Proctor walk the first guy they face almost 100% of the time and struggle through outing after outing? I vote for Chamberlain in a landslide.
At 21 years old, Chamberlain already possesses better stuff than both Proctor and Bruney. He may have better makeup. Read about his background. Its amazing.
The downside is, experience, using him correctly (to avoid injury) and rushing him. All solid reasons for not doing it.
By August 1 though, it wouldn’t shock me to see him in the bullpen. Especially, if the Yankees get this thing to 4 games or less in the standings.
Dan,
We’re talking 2007. Why would it be wasting Joba? He’s not going to help the Yanks in 2007 dominating in AA. He could set up this year and then start the year off in Scranton as a starter in 08 and then join the Yanks staff during the year.
Two things:
1. I am really happy with what Phillips has done this year…he always has key hits and has played solidly in the field
2. What is the scoop on Justin Christian? He’s tearing up triple A…or at least it looks like. What is the difference between him and Thompson and Reese…
SJ I feel like you’d be best suited to answer