The story behind the home run story
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- July
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When the season started, it seemed likely that Barry Bonds would have 755 home runs by now and that Alex Rodriguez wouldn’t be close to 500 until September.
Yet here there, two of the most compelling figures in baseball two home runs away from major milestones.
In working on a story on A-Rod reaching 500, I wondered what fans thought about him now in relation to Bonds.
For years now, Alex has been booed at almost road game because of his record contract. Even with Yankee fans, his popularity is never a sure thing. Do you think that will change once Bonds is the home run king?
Bonds used steroids to get where he is (and if you don’t believe that, please read Game of Shadows and get back to me) and is by all accounts a loathsome individual who treats people poorly.
My working theory is Rodriguez will become a more popular player because fans will want him to displace Bonds at the top of the home run charts. A-Rod has his quirks but he has worked hard to get where he is. People would feel better about baseball with Alex holding the most cherished record than Bonds.
Agree? Disagree? I’m curious what people think. Comment away.
If you’re from Westchester, Rockland or Putnam counties and want to provide a quote I can use in my story, please e-mail me.
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on Tuesday, July 24th, 2007 at 12:14 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
100% agreed
But if Pujols stays healthy, will he supplant Arod? Too early to tell
I think that an interesting perspective to all of this is that “Slappy” as Arod is affectionally called here in Maine, is far more popular than Bonds. I know many a Red Sox Fan who states that if Bonds gets the record, they will root for Arod to quickly break the record.
Pete, I agree with you. I think outside of san fran most fans would agree with you as well. I have seen bonds play in several parks outside of his home city and he is universally booed and hailed with chants of ‘cheater cheater.’
I think A-Rod has warmed up to most fans. Ironically it was the ‘ha’ play that did it for me. He will be popular simply because he is playing well, independent of bonds.
BJ
Pete- I’m curious your take on this. I know you’ve said you don’t root for teams, but for players you like and consider good people (iirc Andy Phillips is one). Do you like/root for A-Rod? I can’t get a sense of what you think of him.
Pete, I agree that people will want A-Rod to displace Bonds, and that they will cheer him on in that effort. What I think, though, is that that’s a few years away. So I don’t think there will be a discernable, immediate effect on the way A-Rod is received.
Plus, between now and then, there is the matter of A-Rod’s new contract. He may still be seen to be a greedy SOB depending on how all that goes. BUT, when the time comes, and he gets closer to that magic HR number, I believe people will embrace it whole-heartedly. Greed is not as big a sin as whatever it is you call Bonds’ “sin” (pride, envy, dishonesty), because greed doesn’t mess with the numbers on the field.
Peter-My quote has been mailed.
I totally agree—and hope he does it as a Yankee
I think his non-affiliation with steroids and good treatment of reporters will certainly relay into a lot more support.
His recent scandals with the stripper in the news won’t help him, but those, like all the others of relatable content, will be forgotten in time.
I tend to agree, but I don’t think A-Rod’s popularity will rise too much around the country until he passes the 700 mark.
I don’t think there is any doubt that MLB in general will be rooting for A-Rod to break Bonds’ record and will be THRILLED when it finally happens.
Fans around the country will likely treat him similarly as they did Cal Ripken when he was going after Gehrig’s record.
I agree with MEYanksFan. Red Sox fans criticize Arod for a variety of things but it is really hard to ignore the staggering numbers he is putting up this year. For all of our mixed feelings about Arod most Red Sox fans would far prefer to seem him as the home run record holder over Bonds.
I know this has nothing to do with the topic, and I apologize for that Pete, but I don’t know where else to post it. Just trade speculation which can be found in Buster Olney’s daily blog:
The Mariners have had scouts following the Yankees this week. What follows is pure speculation: Might they be interested in Seattle first baseman Ben Broussard? He’s hitting .287, with an on-base percentage of .353. They passed on him in the past. And here’s a really crazy thought: Would the Yankees entertain a deal for Richie Sexson, who is making $14 million this year and will make $14 million next year? Seriously doubt they would consider it unless the Mariners offered huge financial relief — maybe 50 to 60 percent of what is still owed to Sexson. And even then, they probably wouldn’t do it, because the Yankees don’t have to get a major upgrade at first base; they do need better middle relief. Sexson is hitting .167 in the second half, as mentioned within this Geoff Baker notebook.
If you truly love the game of baseball, you have to like Alex Rodriguez. By the reports I hear, the man works very hard. Extra hitting, extra fielding. I love how he hustles, how he steals bases when needed, takes the extra base. How he jumps up and down like a kid when he hits the big one, or a teammate does.
And while Bonds offends me every time I see or hear him in an interview, A-Rod says the right things most of the time. That’s all I want. I don’t care about anything else. Hustle. Don’t offend. He’s a credit to the game and I’m pleased to watch him every day.
Well first let me just say that I can’t wait until this whole Bonds breaking the records shenanigan is over with…I’m tired of hearing about will Bud be there or will he not, just hits the 2 HR and get it over with geesh.
Now on to your questions Pete, you have an interesting theory and no dobut there are some (like RedSox fans)who will cheer for him in hopes he becomes the new HR king. Me personally, I will be rooting for A-rod b/c he’s one of my favorite players. As for his quirks and contract are concerned…I have never really understood why this matters to fans. When I watch baseball and attend games I’m concerned with what is going on between the lines not outside them.
Pete,
Since 1998, Rodriguez has averaged 44.44 home runs per year. That is including his “bad� 2006 when he hit “only� 35.
Lets say he hits 50 this year, which is very reasonable. If he continues to average 45 per year 2008 and forward, by the end of 2013, he will have 783 home runs. He will be 38 years old.
Alex has a strong lean body with no history of injury nor does he show any signs that he might have ever abused performance-enhancing drugs. Nor does he play a position where collisions, diving into walls, or tearing muscles are common (I’ve got Griffey, Jr. in mind with this comments). There is no reason to believe, lest any kind of freak injury occurs, that A-Rod will not stay healthy and productive late into his career.
Colin Cowherd did a piece a few months ago regarding this. Babe Ruth held the all-time home run title for 53 years. Hank Aaron will have held it for 33 years. Barry Bonds is going to hold it for… what… 5… 6 years?
All these people up in arms over Barry breaking the all-time home run record need to realize that he’s barely going to be a blip on the radar. A-Rod is the going to be the home run king in the future. He might hold it for another 50 years. Or Pujols might break it if he stays healthy.
So yeah, my point got lost in all of that.
Basically, yes, I think people will begin to root for him nationwide. Baseball with breathe easier without Bonds as their home run king.
I think many people will root for A-Rod, he is a great storym hard worker, trains his a** off (like many other stars, but not all).
He is booed because of jealousy, because people don’t believe he deserves the contract. Hey if they offered me 252 million, i’d take it hands down. It’s not his fault he was offered the money by the Rangers, he would’ve been dumb not to take it.
He is a guy you know can beat you any given day by himself, a guy who can carry a team. A guy your kids can llok up to, a real role model and not a bulging mass of muscles that came out of.
Here is to A-Rod becoming the all-time home run king, and hopefully he or someone else also de-thrones Bonds as the season home run king.
roger maris is still my homerun king . i could care less for bonds , his homeruns or anything about him . he’s rude , unlikeable and donwn right wierd . i saw an espn interview with him a few years ago . a reporter asked what he thought of his day at the plate and bonds went into this tyraid about his preeteen daughter being at home alone . the reporters question to bonds was legit and had everything to do with baseball . bonds remarks had nothing to do with the question at hand . it was almost like bonds was asking for it . i loathe him .
Gotta love A Rod. Under reported story from last nights game is that it was 4-2 in the 9th when A Rod came up and delivered another RBI, then the game was broken open.
A Rod is just a flat out good guy as far as I can tell. To me, he is the anti-Bonds. It sure would be sweet if on the day Bonds ties the record A Rod hits number 500 stealing much of the press and making him the youngest to 500 as he was 400, 300 and so on. He’s the man, I hope Cash can convince him to stay.
I am all about A-Rod being the HR King. Barry Bonds, as far as I’m concerned, is a joke and a blight to professional baseball. Even better if A-Rod is a Yankee and obliterates Bonds in new Yankee Stadium.
Bonds…well, look at pictures of him in the mid-1990’s and then in like 2002. Totally different, chemically enhanced body. What makes A-Rod significant is that once he breaks the HR record, he’ll do it without human growth hormones, without whatever drugs Bonds has pumped into his body to do it. A-Rod symbolizes the American Dream…hard work and dedication always pay off in the end. I’ve been a fan of his since he came up with the Mariners and now even more so as a Yankee. I say the sooner he eclipses Bonds, the better. Bonds should be erased from any kind of record book and forgotten by baseball.
Many players in the past have been unpopular at times only to become beloved in their final years. Say what you will about A-Rod’s personality, he always hustles, and he always appears to be giving his best. Bonds, besides being a cheater, would not run out balls, ignored fans, and really epitomized the “me first” type player. Advantage A-Rod. I guarantee that if the Yankees win a WS with A-Rod he will be loved. It’s just that they haven’t won with him yet, and nothing less is acceptable. Unrealistic? Maybe, but he knew what he was getting into when he came to NY.
A-rod will pass Bonds with plenty of room to spare. I predict around 800 home runs are possible for him barring injury.
agree. A-Rod will be embraced because people want one of baseball’s most important records to be held by a player they know is clean. A-Rod’s pursuit of the all time home run record coupled with A-Rod’s value as a player makes him indispensable for the Yankees. Regardless of the price tag, the Yankees will sign A-Rod because they realize they are signing a player who will one day be the all-time home run champ. The fact that he will be a Yankee will only serve to increase the Yankee heritage, not to mention guarantee sellouts as he chases down Mays, Ruth, Aaron and Bonds. Additionally, A-Rod’s legend will only be increased if he accomplishes this feat as a Yankee, causing his name forever to be mentioned in the same breath as Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle and DiMaggio. Like Pete has said in the past, A-Rod and the Yankees will realize they need each other.
Who’s Barry Bonds? Hank Aaron and Roger Maris I’ve heard of. Now who’s this Bonds guy?
Steve L,
You must be new here. Peter has made it clear in the past that he does not like ARod. I think Peter’s story idea is based on his own feelings. Given how hated Bonds is, and the monster year ARod is having, I sense Peter is warming up to ARod (finally). Just my guess – care to chime in Peter?
Ok, I don’t particularly like Barry Bonds. Let’s get that out straightaway. But to say “Bonds used steroids to get where he is” is only partially true. Game of Shadows says Bonds started taking steroids sometime after the 1998 season out of jealousy for the publicity McGuire and Sosa were getting. Bonds was probably the best player of his generation BEFORE steroids. For instance, 1996:
BA: .308
OBP: .461 (!!!)
HR: 42
RBI: 129
SB: 40 (!)
Gold Glove
According to Game of Shadows, Bonds put those numbers up clean. There is no one, NO ONE, playing right now that could put up those numbers. A-Rod might hit more HRs and drive in more people this year, but his OBP and OPS aren’t going to match that, and he’s certainly not going to steal 40 bases. So yeah, Barry Bonds is a complete jerk. His later career is a sham. But he was a HOF-er before the steroids, and he’s still the best hitter any of us will ever see.
Oh yeah… and I also want A-Rod to pass Bonds. The sooner, the better… hopefully as a Yankee.
OK I looked at the numbers:
Pujols is 27 and a half years old and has 272 HR’s as of this writing. He is averaging roughly 41.8 HR a year. If he keeps that pace up he will have around 460 HR’s by the time he reaches Arod’s present age.
Arod will be 32 in 3 days and has 498 HR’s and averaging roughly 43.3 a year. He should be passing Babe Ruth about 5 years from now at age 37.
Pujols could catch him but as good as he is, he is still behind Arod historically now and most likely in 5 years and in 10 years. We will see – a lot can happen, just ask Ken Griffey Jr.
It’s always about context and reference points. In the context of discussions about clutch players, or about genuine people, A-Rod has not looked all that good (although both of those may be changing now, for the better).
In the context of discussions about a guy like Babe Ruth, whose stats are by far the most staggering of all (again, in context — how long he played for, how his numbers compared to others at the time, even guys like Aaron and A-Rod don’t look off the charts impressive.
But in the context of Barry Bonds, A-Rod looks fantastic and should be cheered. Bonds seems to be a despicable human being, and his numbers (along with McGwire’s & Sosa’s) will forever be tainted. A-Rod does it the right way, works hard, isn’t a complete selfish prick, and deserves to be appreciated if he breaks the HR record.
Matt impressive information…
More tidbits….
The youngest player to hit 500 homers was Jimmie Foxx, who was 32 years 337 days old when he did so on Sept. 24, 1940. Arod is about to shatter that mark. Maybe 500 will come on his 32nd birthday?
Also at Pujols current age, Arod had already hit 298 HR’s
I agree, Matt… that’s an interesting point.
(and this is from someone who hasn’t read “Game of Shadows”)
Peter, it sounds like you have a good poll question. I was expecting it to be there at the end of the post; was surprised that it wasn’t.
i agree with bonds being just a blip, a small one at that
TXYankee – I’ve been reading the blog for a while.
Often Peter seems to say positive things about A-Rod too, much of the negative stuff appears to me to be tongue-in-cheek. That’s why I was asking directly.
A-Rod at his age is over 100 HR’s ahead of the pace set by Bonds, Meris, Ruth, and Aaron. Can anyone think of a more incredible stat in baseball?
Bonds 1996 was impressive but Arod’s 1998 was not that far off:
BA: .311 vs .308
OBP: .360 (not great especially compared to Bonds .461)
HR: 42 vs 42
RBI: 124 vs 129
SB: 46 vs 40
No Gold Glove but Omar Vizquel owned that for several years and Arod got his after Vizquel moved to the NL
Pete: You might be right in anticipating an increase in A-Rod’s popularity. But, cheering A-Rod to break Bond’s record because one hates Bonds is really a version of “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” rather than a genuine appreciation of A-Rod’s steroid free accomplishments.
A-ROD has been clutch for the Yankees throughout his time here. He had ONE bad clutch year in the playoffs and 3 or so strikeouts with the bases loaded in the regular season near the end.
Anyone remember AROD carrying us in 04? In the playoffs. In the season. I do.
He was one of the top 2 or 3 in clutch game winning or go ahead + walk off hits in the major leagues last year. Can’t forget that.
I think that A-Rod will always be booed on the road. It’s not about cheering him based on natural talent, it’ the fact that in most places the Yankees are either viciously hated or extremely loved. There’s really no in-between. When you combine that with A-Rod’s contract, it’s easy to see why he gets booed. The fans boo Jeter on the road, as well.
I will say, however, that I’ve spoken to several Red Sox fans who I know and they’re willing to give credit where credit is due. As far as accomplishments and raw talent is concerned, I don’t think anyone ever has or ever will doubt guys like A-Rod or Pujols.
No question that Arod is more deserving and just about every fan east of the Bay Area would be pulling for him.
But… I have some doubts about Arod being able to catch Barry. Even though Arod’s pace may be well ahead of Bond’s, Bond’s numbers between ages 35-39 are staggering. During a period in one’s career when the numbers tend to decrease, he put up numbers that were at least 30% better than any other similar length period in his career. Of course we all know the reason for this but I’m just looking at the numbers.
Arod would have to be atypical (healthwise) to continue to average roughly 45 home runs thru that age period. For argument sake, lets say he finishes with 520 this year and maintains his current 45 per year average for two more years..giving him 520+90=610. Lets say his numbers decline to average 35 between ages 35-39 (5×35=175)… that leaves him at 775. Doable assuming no major injuries…but not a gimme.
What about a year like this:
60 Homers, 164 RBI, 137 BB, .356 BA? (Ruth in ‘27)
Matt, I agree and that just makes the whole Bonds saga that much more pathetic. He was always a jerk, but his talent was unquestioned, he still would’ve been a legend (Ty Cobb anyone?).
Now, not many people remember how good he was before the juice, nor do they care….. he’s a HOF-er, but no-one cares, which is sad for him and no-one else. Self-inflicted.
No one ever cheers for the best. They boo the best. They root for the best to fail. It’s part of the game.
56Bomber, I agree, it’s not a gimme, but A-Rod’s health has always been good and staying healthy is the caviat to anything he “can do” (see Ken Griffey, JR….).
Also though, I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure I heard on ESPN or somewhere earlier in the year that Aaron was more productive after age 30 as well in terms of HR’s (and I’m too lazy to look it up right now). Just evidence you don’t need steroids to do it. Again, health is an obvious requirement, but I fully expect guys like A-Rod and Jeter to play till they’re 40 and be pretty productive doing so. Even allowing for drop-offs in their numbers, as you forecasted, A-Rod gets there…
100% agree and hope he does it in New York.
If it was a layup Griffey would have done it. Strawberry would have done it. McGwire would have done it. Etc.
OK……..call me nuts, but I sometimes wonder if we aren’t just fighting the future. We already live in an age of face lifts, liposuction and breast implants. Governors, movie stars and professional wrestlers all thrive on steroids.
What if, ten years from now, doctors announce that they’ve developed a steroid that is “safe” (and I honestly believe this is coming.) Within a generation, everyone will be bigger, stronger and longer lasting. Are we gonna demand that professional atheletes abstain, or will we simply look back on guys like Bonds as pioneers who took the risks in order to lead us to a better tomorrow?
Go ahead and pile on, but think about it.
Matt – very good points. I think though, those very facts are what irritates me the most about Bonds – he didn’t NEED to take steroids to be considered a great hitter. He was already. I dont know if that makes it worse that he did or what, but I dont think he’s going to hold that HR record for very long, inevitable as it is that he will break it.
I hope Arod does, and does it in a yankee uniform.
It makes way too much sense for him to leave.
Team that can pay the most. Check.
Team with the best tradition/legacy. Check.
Can play in NY. Check.
Team that can compete every single year. Check.
I do think Arod is going to be the “people’s hero” in his quest to top Bonds.
If Arod is healthy and producing like he is currently, I have no doubt his quest to be the home run champion will hearken back to the love fest we all had with McGwire before the bloom came off that rose.
Baseball needs a steroid free savior. They will turn Arod into their poster boy because he is the only one who could possibly make the all the steroid tainted records disappear.
They need Arod not only to top Bonds on the all time home run list, they need him to break the single season record. I don’t know if he can hit 73 (or 74 actually in a season), but that record is a symbol of the steroid generation.
If he can do both, there’s no better place for all of this to happen than NY.
I have always felt the longer Alex stayed in NY, eventually, the fans would embrace him.
Obviously, his great year has quickened the process. I also think people are starting to really appreciate just how hard he works (and how clean he has done it) at the game.
Despite what folks may think, is a good person. He also plays the game the right way. I think, the more people see that, the more they embrace him.
I also think he made the smart decision (FINALLY) of not trying to please everybody. Alex spent too much of the last 3 years trying to make everybody else happy and all that did was make himself miserable.
He smiled more the first week of ST than he had in the past three years in NY. Its carried over to the season.
This year, he has taken Cano and Melky under his wing, something he has only done with one other player (Michael Young in Texas) in his career. Its all part of him growing more and more comfortable in NY.
I also think, contrary to popular (ie: Steve Phillips, Buster Olney, and Jayson Stark) belief, Alex cares deeply about his legacy. He has spoken about wanting a monument in Monument Park, and breaking the HR record as a Yankee, to a lot of people. It means a lot to him.
Its not lost on him he is only going to be the third Yankee ever (Mickey Mantle and Babe Ruth were the others) to hit his 500th HR as a Yankee.
He has also gotten close to Reggie Jackson the last few years. That’s important because Alex is this generation’s Reggie, in the sense that he can be a polarizing figure. Reggie is probably the only person alive who has walked in Alex’s shoes and really understands what he goes through on a daily basis. Reggie has helped Alex a great deal this year and I think Reggie being around a lot means a lot to Alex.
Reggie “escaped” NY for Anaheim and, if you ask Reggie, he will tell you its the biggest mistake he made in his career. He missed the energy, the BS and the bright lights of NY.
IMO, Alex is embracing it now and that’s why I think he has a great shot at staying in NY. With one important caveat….Scott Boras.
Alex is a true believer in Boras and Boras is, by far, the best in the business.
However, its the last frontier for Alex (telling Boras what to do) in his maturation process.
I really hope, when the season ends, Alex sits down with Boras and tells him, “I don’t care how you do it, make it happen with the Yankees”. Its pretty clear that’s what he wants or he wouldn’t be looking at 25 million dollar second homes in Greenwich.
Alex is a Miami guy and spends his off-season’s in Miami. He doesn’t need a second home in NY (or Greenwich) if he is not playing in NY.
The key will be for Boras not to p— off the Yankees so much, they walk away from the negotiations. As great a player as Alex is, he isn’t bigger than the New York Yankees. Nobody is.
You can jerk around Tom Hicks because he has a nothing franchise and needed a marquee name. If Scott plays it wrong with the Yankees, I have no doubt they walk away and, IMO, that’s not in anybody’s best interests.
Its why I sincerely hope Alex does what his heart and head says he should do, and not what Boras may want him to do, and re-sign with the Yankees. If he does, he can achieve that immortal-like career he has always talked about having.
I agree 100% too. Fans will want to forget Bonds holds the record until ARod brings some respectablility back to it. I don’t think many fans will acknowledge that Bonds holds the record; he cheated to get it, and the fact that Aaron won’t be there to witness the event speaks volumes.
Bonds would of broke the home run record with or without steroids… I do not LIKE BONDS OK… But he hit 49 homers in 93… so iono if he was talking them then, but Bonds always was great… So lets say he hit 43 the year he hit 73 i say thise because that was honestly the only season that made you say OK this guy is on steriods.. .then again the average and all that does too, but he would then be about 30 somtin away from breaking the record. Bonds would of done it no matter what…..
Pete,
I’d have to disagree with you. As long as he is wearing a Yankee uniform he will be hated. Not a Bonds like hatred, but still a hatred.
Great post Porkpoker. Even if steroids were to become the norm (or more likely some sort of safe supplement), Bonds would still be hated because he acts like an A Hole all the time. You could almost make the case that steroids are his second biggest problem, his attitude the first. Think about if Sammy Sosa was going for the record? There would be some negativity, but the vast majority would be positive. So, no Bonds will never be looked at as anyone but a good player with a bad attitude.
i think griffey’s the guy everyone wishes was making the run at aaron but, obviously, that’s not going to happen.
i don’t see any reason not to get behind alex, should he start to close in. the guy works hard and (with a couple of notably ridiculous exceptions), plays the game the right way. his image is certainly carefully crafted, but i’ll take that over being an outright jackass any day.
records are becoming increasingly meaningless, though. does anyone care anymore about the single-season home run record? about the fact that sammy sosa has passed the 500 mark?
“He has spoken about wanting a monument in Monument Park, and breaking the HR record as a Yankee, to a lot of people. It means a lot to him.” — SJ44: How do you know he has said this to a lot of people? (I’m not challenging you on this, just genuinely asking.)
Pete Simonetti: Umm, no. I could barely read what you were trying to say, but I could read enough to say: No way.
Porkpker: That’s an interesting point you bring up about the prospect of “safe” steroids in the near future. Certainly it will be easier for players to stay strong longer, with advances in medicine and physical therapy. So these power records may never hold up as long as they used to.
“Bonds would of broke the home run record with or without steroids… I do not LIKE BONDS OK… But he hit 49 homers in 93… so iono if he was talking them then, but Bonds always was great… So lets say he hit 43 the year he hit 73 i say thise because that was honestly the only season that made you say OK this guy is on steriods.. .then again the average and all that does too, but he would then be about 30 somtin away from breaking the record. Bonds would of done it no matter what…..”
Pete Simonetti if you think that your crazy. It’s not the number of homeruns he was hitting yearly, it was more his age at that time he was hitting all those homeruns.
36/37 years old when he hit 73. Your suppose to be declining at that age, not getting better. The Roids lengthened his career at a high level, saying he would of broken it anyway is ludicrous and scary.
I couldn’t agree more, Pete. Don’t even have much to add because you pretty much summed up everything I would have said already. I will mention Pujols though, because he is being looked upon as another one who could possibly break the record in the future. Pujols is basically a golden boy with no controversy surrounding him except for one thing: there are a lot of people who contend that he is pulling an El Duque, meaning he is older than he says he is. Because of that, I think some people see Pujols as disingenuous. Thus, even though he is less controversial and less focused on by the media than ARod, I think people would rather see ARod break the record because if he does it at a younger age than anyone else who held the record in the past (which he will) there will be no questions about whether he’s really that age or not. If Pujols becomes the youngest everyone will say “well how do we know he’s really the youngest?” I think people would rather see the record broken by someone who they don’t have to ask any questions about.
Of course, I barely know anyone who isn’t a Yankee or Met fan, and Met fans hate Albert because of the NLCS, and Yankee fans obviously prefer ARod…so take this for what it is worth.
Bonds was a HOF’er pre-Balco. Did the juice make him better? I don’t know. Did the juice allow him to have his best years when most players careers are winding down? ABSOLUTELY. And that is the problem. This is a guy with 308HR’s and counting since his 35th birthday.
You don’t get better as you get older.
All of the experts thought it would be Ken Griffey Jr. breaking Aarons record. Wwhich is why it is so hard to predict that a guy like Pujols who has to long to go can break 800HR. Unfortunaly for Griffey and all of baseball he has’nt aged well.
“does anyone care anymore about the single-season home run record? ”
Sure, I care…but mostly because in my mind, that record is for all intents and purposes still held by Maris. Just like when Bonds breaks the HR record, in my mind it will still belong to Aaron anyway, and it will remain that way until someone legitimately breaks either record without the help of roids.
Love him or hate him I want the best player in baseball to play for the NY Yankees for the remainder of his career. The front office of the Yankees will do whatever they have to do (within reason) to keep Alex Rodriguez in a Yankee uniform. The sub-plot of A-Rod becoming the all-time HR leader while playing for the Yankees is enough to make the Yankees a story in every newspaper from Boston to Beijing for the next 6-8 years. Barry Bonds who?
Opening Day 2009 in the new Yankee Stadium will have A-Rod at third base or something went terribly wrong.
BBB,
I agree with you as far as the records still being Maris
and Aaron’s.
But in regards to Pujols, wasn’t he being accused last
season of taking steroids as well? Makes you wonder why
isnt up there this year in homeruns.
I think Pujols juiced. That’s just my own personal gut feeling. I’m sure AROD didn’t, but I can’t be sure of Pujols or even Howard.
Porkpoker:
That is a very interesting argument. The only problem is Bonds did steroids during a time when those said steroids were not safe and it was illegal (atleast in public opinion) to do so. So he did not do it by the rules. If a safe steroid is invented, and is approved by the league it is just akin to a rule change by the league. A very good analogy would be using a corked bat Vs a bat made using approved advanced technology.
myrtlebeachfan,
Ramirez,Ortiz,Dye,Konerko and Wells maybe?
I think the worst thing about Bonds is the fact that he already was the greatest player of his generation before the steroids. Without them, he might not have broken Aaron’s record, but he would have been a baseball legend. Now…
As for A-Rod, he’s already starting to see some turnaround from the fans. Sure he’s booed on the road, but I don’t know of many fans who cheer opposing players except in exceptional circumstances. Any dislike for A-Rod is largely leftover hatred of the Yankees, not disgust with his paycheck. And, outside of Boston, I don’t think too many fans would let the pinstripes get in the way of rooting for a good guy like A-Rod.
And I agree that fans will root for A-Rod to break Bonds’ record. Just look at how many stories are already hedging Bonds’ quest with a look towards A-Rod. It’s become almost required that reporters at least mention A-Rod in an article about Bonds. That’s only going to increase as time goes on.
That’s gotta really hurt for Bonds. The guy was the greatest player on the field, and then Sosa and McGuire started stealing all his thunder with their HR race. So Bonds starts taking steroids to take back their crown, and now just as he’s getting that reecognition, A-Rod comes along and swipes it out from under him.
I don’t like Bonds, and I can’t wait to see A-Rod break his record, but this whole thing is still tragic. The guy isn’t some heinous villain- he’s an immensely talented player who broke the rules trying to get the attention he deserved. This whole saga could make a terrific movie.
I will cherish the day Alex breaks Barry’s record. I am sorry but I think Bonds is a pompous jerk who only cares for himself in the game of baseball.
Aaron and Maris took greenies, which are now illegal!
The records are still Ruth’s!
Ruth had the advantage of playing without the spitball and without minorities!
The records still belong Ned Williamson and Roger Connor!
Ned Williamson played at a park where the fence was so short that balls over it were previously considered ground rule doubles!
The single season record is still Harry Stovey’s!
There it is, your official rightful home run record holders are Harry Stovey and Roger Connor!
S.O.S. 27,
I can definitely see your points about Pujols, but I guess for whatever reason I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt. Last year he was injured for a while, which may have hurt him, and this year although he did get off to a slow start (along with the rest of his team, it seems) he does have 22 homers now, which is pretty solid – I mean it’s more than Ortiz or Manny. Plus if the thing about him lying about his age is true, then maybe he already peaked when we thought he was 24-25 but he was really 29-30.
However, he DOES play for LaRussa…..not that I’m accusing LaRussa of being a drug dealer or anything, haha, but he had to know that guys who played for him in the past juiced and never seemed to have much of a problem with it. I have suspected him of being tolerant of roid use for a while now, or at least of looking the other way when it happens. I’m sure everyone here remembers how awfully he treated Tino over there…maybe because he was mad Tino wasn’t down with the juice like the 1st baseman he replaced!
I agree completely. Most people that follow baseball are not Barry Bonds fans, and will turn to A-Rod for nothing else than to just break Barry’s Record. I am from TN, and already everyone around me who follows baseball are wishing the day that arod break it would come sooner. (assuming he does it)
Even former arod haters I have talked to are starting to become fans, just for this reason.
I have never personally met Bonds so I don’t know whether he’s a “loathsome individual who treats people poorly”, but by all accounts he seems to treat ‘journalists’ poorly. Incidentally, that goes as a plus in my book. So while I’ll cheer whenever records are broken, whether it is a record held by Bonds or not has no effect on me.
Porkpoker–> If you or anyone else has ever read Jose Canseco’s book Juiced, this is the exact point he makes. And at the time I felt it was a very interesting point. According to Canseco, he uses steroids correctly in that he cycles on and off before any damage can be had to his body. Now I don’t know how true that is, but really if you could use steroids and they didn’t hurt you, why wouldn’t you or anyone else use them?
They may be looked upon in 20 years as a way to live longer and healthier. If so, how do we treat guys like McGwire, Sosa, Giambi and Bonds then.
Pete, I couldn’t agree with you more about Game of Shadows. I was a Bonds supporter before I read the book, but I read it this year right before the season started and I could never go back. Even if the authors streatched the truth a bit, which wouldn’t shock me all that much quite frankly, if half of what’s in that book is true, Bonds is just a God-awful human being; not to mention a cheater. Every baseball fan should read that book.
Pete, great blog and great comments by everyone on all of the posts. I’m totally addicted!
Regarding Bonds, I agree with KurticusMaximus that he is a tragic figure rather than a classic bad guy. Maybe he’s mean to journalists but I don’t have any other information on his interpersonal skills. I do know that McGwire was seen as a great white hope the year he broke the season home run record. (Sosa was the smiling Latino “good” minority who had the good grace to lose the race.) It’s my impression that rumors of steroid use by members of the Oakland teams were already in circulation. The fact that Bonds is now reviled doesn’t quite calculate for me. Murray Chass is right that he is a Black man breaking another Black man’s record, but the comparison should be to McGwire who was treated so well by the fans and the press in his big year.
Regarding A-Rod, I think he is the first post-therapeutic superstar in baseball and that has caused him some problems. It’s a two-way thing with him, fans didn’t like something about the way he spoke and carried himself and his performance seemed to suffer when he was feeling mentally uncomfortable in his first few years with the Yankees. His comfort level and the fans comfort level with him has been growing this season and that has shown in both his performance on the field and their cheers for him in and out of New York. With A-Rod the equation is a little more complex because of his mental make-up and it is mutually reinforcing and multi-factorial. The fact that he will break Bonds record will only contribute to his mental comfort and the fans response to him.
Pete I agree with you 100% and people will respect it more because you’re right he hasn’t been accused of steroid use. He’s doing it without help.
When he was down last season he accepted he wasn’t using his talent at the bat. To take time and work as hard has he has with Kevin Long, I think it showed he was really serious an really wanted to better himself also worrying about the team instead of the focus on himself. I loved the way he gave all the credit to Kevin for helping him. It shows with he and the others who had trouble hitting.
Being a Yankee is a plus.
Yankees have a history of legendary players. What better team could you use to add your name next to the great Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron than a Yankee.
I hope he does hit his mark in history but I certainly hope he does it as a Yankee. If he’s thinking right being a Yankee is a plus for him. If he ever decides to leave I’ll still root for him because he wore the Yankee pinstripes.
I’m rooting for him to get there.
Bonds is pretty well disliked, yes, but I don’t think people (who aren’t fans of his team) are suddenly going to warm to A-Rod just because he’s a threat to Bonds’ record. A lot, I think, will depend on whether he opts out of his contract at the end of the season. While he certainly has every right to do so, it would reinforce everything bad that people think about him–selfish, smug, etc.
Perhaps he’ll pull an Agassi and become a beloved elder statesman, but I’d be surprised.
Hey Pete,
Here’s a quote you can use from a Californian that lives about 80 miles from SF:
“BARRY BONDS IS A FRAUD. Alex Rodriguez is the real deal.”
Barry Bonds is the worst thing to happen to baseball because of his steroids use. How idiotic can a future hall of famer (yes, before the roid use and sadly, still so after) be to start juicing when his career was already acknowledged as arguably the best of his era as a hitter?
Unbelieveable.
I agree that people apreciate A Rod’s work ethic. As long as he keeps his face off of Page 6 of the NY Post he’ll be fine. Unless he goes 0 for 25 in a postseason then all bets are off!
I agree Pete, I definitely can’t wait for A-Rod to break the home run record. I can’t stand Barry Bonds; he’s a liar, a cheater, and not a good person. Honestly, I wasn’t too crazy about A-Rod before this season (he seems better and less fake now) but I can’t dispute that he is a very hard worker and I really don’t believe he’s used steroids now or in the past. I think A-Rod deserves the record and I am hoping he breaks it while he is wearing a Yankee uniform.
Barry Bonds can hit 800 homeruns during his career and ARod can hit 810,but George Herman Ruth will always be the Greatest Homerun Hitter of all time. Compare his era with today’s ballplayers, when Ruth hit more Homers himself than most TEAMS!
I admired Hank Aaron greatly as a fine all around ballplayer – not the best of his era – but he hit 755 HRs in 12,364 At Bats. Ruth’s 714 was accomplished in 8,398 with a dead ball and fences far beyond those of today.
Yes, pitchers have more weapons today, but the Homerun of today is what Complete Games were in Ruth’s Era – much more common place.
Bonds is a cheater and should always be looked upon with suspicion, even he’s not the only one on steriods and HGH.
ARod’s eventual title as “HomeRun King” should be weighed with the Era that he plays in, where pitching mounds have been lowered, balls are livelier, bats are designed for speed and distance, fences are shorter, and utility players are capable of hitting 30 Hrs a year!
Its too early for me to root for ARod to break the HR record. This year ARod is well on his way to another MVP and Gold Glove and as a baseball purist, I can watch him every day. As a Yankee fan, I think he is worth the renegotiated contract – whatever the number is. And if he stays here, he will certainly have the best shot at more chances to redeem his prior playoff numbers. As far as his off field life, yeah, he’s done some dumb things…but hey..he’s no Derek Jeter! If he stays in NY, and gets us to another Ring, and breaks the HR record…wouldn’t it be the ultimate irony for ARod and Jeter to be commemmorated with monuments adjacent to each other in the new Stadium?