Today in the Journal News
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jul 25, 2007 
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Johnny Damon is heating up and joined the parade as the Yankees won again
Joba Chamberlain and Ian Kennedy are in AAA. This notebook also has an update on Phil Hughes and a big meeting in Tampa.
As Alex Rodriguez closes in on 500 home runs his public perception could start to change.
If you didn’t click on Peter’s links, he reports that according to Torre, Hughes will make one more rehab start.
Based on the schedule, he will join the club and start on Monday, Aug 6th, in Toronto; which is a day game due to a Canadian Holiday (National Pizza Day).
Man, Clemens is playing against some of his former teammates’ kids all the time, lol. Must be nice to be the last one still standing.
Thank God, Damon is finally coming around. It’s good to see. Hopefully, he can continue to improve with this newfound energy and does help to have some healthy competition from Duncan.
I can’t wait for Phil Hughes to come back so we can rid ourselves of Kei Igawa.
I wonder if Joba and Ian will pitch one game a piece in the majors this September.
I just looked over at the stats for AA Trenton. Chamberlain has about 38 innings pitched and Kennedy 47. Let’s say they pith 35-40 more this year. That puts them just below 100.
Seeing how cautious the Yankees were with Hughes, I don’t think they would be to quick to promote them to the MLB next year, they have very young arms.
Maybe it’d be better to go the Hughes way, have them at AAA for most of the year in ’08 and call them up late in the season. That way they don’t worry about mileage and pitch counts.
I dunno, maybe the Yanks will go with Petite, Wang, Moose, Hughes and then a combination of Karstens, Igawa and Rasner plus a free agent next season.
They didn’t rush Hughes, can’t see them doing that with these two guys and wouldn’t want them to.
Forgot to add 60 innings for Kennedy and 40 for Chamberlain at A Tampa. That would but them in pace for 140-150 and 120-130 repectively.
I still think they should build up slowly to 180-190 and 160-170 before joining the MLB rotation for real. Go the Hughes way.
I probably will be attacked for this opinion. But I say an august or september call-up in ’08 is better. I would hate to see a young Yankee pitcher go through the same injuries many young guys in other clubs have suffered.
Considering the length of the Yankees’ innings last night, particularly the 1st and 2nd, I didn’t expect Wang to be sharp. Actually, 4 runs wasn’t too bad, considering.
I guess it’s the walks that do it — while it’s great that the Yankees are getting their walks, making pitchers work, it sure makes the game a snooze. Literally. Fell asleep several times during the game.
What I think would be terrific is if the Yankees win the next 2 and Boston loses their next 2. That way they gain ground on both Cleveland and Boston. But as long as don’t lose ground to Boston, I’ll be satisfied. Not happy, but satisfied.
I skimmed through some of the game posts this morning. Some of you guys should lighten up. I understand the griping when they’re losing, or even when the games are close or back-and-forth, but when the team is clearly playing well, what’s the point of nit-picking. Of course, I understand the bullpen is far from lights-out, and it’s a concern even still, but you can’t reasonably expect 10-0, 2-hit wins every night. In fact, I think it’s really rewarding for the team to win on a night when there are some struggles, whether offensively or pitching-wise.
Doreen,
Great post. I particularly enjoy the nightly exercise of “rip the lineup” everytime Pete posts it.
Something must be working because they are winning and the guys who need to hit (Damon, Abreu and Cano) are starting to hit again.
I know a lot of people want to see Shelley Duncan in the lineup everyday. However, he isn’t an everyday player and certainly isn’t a better option than Johnny Damon.
Right now, the best way to utilize him is to spot him against certain pitchers. Like tomorrow against DeLaRosa.
Tonight will be tough. Meche has had a solid year and Mussina is awful. But, if they can mash early, perhaps that motivates Moose to throw strikes, stop whining at the umpires, and give them 6 solid innings.
If he can do that, regardless of result, he will have done his job.
You just don’t want them to have to blow out the bullpen to finish the game. They will need the ‘pen on Thursday and Friday, because of Igawa, the resumption of the suspended game, and a Friday night game in Baltimore.
Joe is in a position that every manager would want to be in. Having so many guys all hitting. Now he has players he can rotate in and out, based on whether or not they hit a particular pitcher. Like tonight for instance. Johnny is hitting .176 off of Meche. So he might sit him tonight and have Shelley dh. Than again he might want Jose to catch a game, and he might dh Jorge since he is hitting .400 off of Meche.
It is a very good problem to have, with the way they are all hitting Joe can do no wrong.
Thanks to Pete for his permission to post this here:
Have you ever been to Yankee Stadium? Do you go to Yankee Stadium often?
Related, do you have an interesting story about a time when you were at the Stadium? Maybe you were there for a famous game? Or, maybe you once saw something there that you’ll always remember for some particular reason – because it was wacky or moving? Perhaps you once went to a game and that day will now always have great personal meaning to you? Maybe you have learned some tricks about getting to and around the Stadium through the years that you think are special? Have you noticed a change in the Stadium “experience� through the years? Do you have a Yankee Stadium foul and/or homerun ball story? Have you ever been ejected from Yankee Stadium? What sections of Yankee Stadium have you sat in that you enjoyed the most – and/or the least?
It seems that most Yankees fans have at least one “Yankee Stadium� story – heck, I have more than I can count – how about you?
If you have a “Yankee Stadium� story, and you’re willing to share it for a project that I’m looking into, please send me an e-mail to author [at] baseballsamegame [dot] com
And, if you know of anyone else who has a good Stadium tale, please do pass this request along to them. Thanks.
While it is very tempting to call up the young arms for this season, if the starters are doing their job, the bullpen the Yanks have is adequate. The problem is and was when Moose goes 4 innings then Igawa does the same, Joe burns out the bullpen. Pettite and Clemens are bulls and will usually go 6 or 7. Wang also is consistent in that reagard even when he isn’t that sharp (like last night). So rushing the kids to the majors is putting a band-aid on the wrong problem unless you think they are ready to be starters at the ML level. That also means replacing two guys you have a lot of money tied up in, because frankly, who would want either Mussina or Igawa they way they are pitching now?
I think if Igawa stinks up tomorrow and goes 4 innings, the Yanks will push Hughes to take his place instead of one more Scranton start. The only reason the Yanks are having him pitch one more game in AAA is to get his pitch count to 100. However, right now he can already go six innings with only 75 and Igawa can’t even go 5!
I’m not to hot on the idea of brining up Joba to sit in the pen. Espically with the way Joe gets them up sits them down over and over. I’d much rather see him come up as a starter, and right now there isn’t a spot for him. YOu have Phil ahead of him and he will take Kei’s spot, with Kei either going to the pen or going down to AAA to find himself.
I am one person that still has faith in Mike, he was very dominate the first few innings the other day. But he just lost it for some reason. I don’t see him coming back next year if he can’t figure it out. I personally think he’d walk away.
SJ44 -
Yes, the “nightly rip” is like a ritual these days. “You can please some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time.” Great man, great words.
I expect tonight will be the most difficult game, as well. Moose really has to pull it together. I’m not one who thinks he’s finished as a pitcher, but he’s definitely on some kind of learning curve to deal with the loss in velocity, which is now obviously not a short-term thing. I’ve noticed that Glavine over on the other side of town seems to be having the same kind of results as Moose. They both depend on what kind of strike zone the plate umpire is calling and for pitchers who have to live on the edge, that’s the difference between a good game and an atrocious one. If they’re not gonna call the borderline pitches in his favor, and he can no longer blow the fast ball by, then he’s so vulnerable because he has to catch more of the plate. I agree 6 solid innings would be great; 7 would be better, but at this point, you can’t bank on that. I’ve often felt that Moose has been the victim of not enough run support (especially last season – he was on pace for a 20 win season, and though he did tail off somewhat himself, he also got a lot of no-decisions in low-scoring games). So, here’s hoping this hyped-up offense continues for a few more games, at least.
I totally agree with you regarding Shelley Duncan. I’m glad to see the “instant success” he’s had. But I think his most important role is the power off the bench that’s been missing. He actually seems more disciplined than I remember seeing, so I think he will be good as a pinch hitter; better than I had originally thought he might be. Besides, it’s going to get awfully crowded in that dugout and again Joe Torre has the job of getting everyone enough playing time AND enough rest – a real balancing act, I think, especially for Damon, Giambi and Melky. Melky does so much better as an everyday player; I hope he’s not the guy that gets moved out when Giambi comes back.
I’m frankly a little nervous about the suspended game. I guess it picks up with Jeter on 2nd and 2 out. I sure hope the first guy up (Abreu? Rodriguez?) drives him in. Baltimore will have 2 chances to change the outcome of that game, and it’s not a done deal, not a sure win, depending on who’s pitching for the Yankees. But it can’t be anyone they’re going to need in the full game. I seem to be in the minority on this; most of the posts I’ve read are giving this game to the Yankees.
Anyway, I hope this game goes a little more quickly than last night’s!
Doree,
I actually read somewhere that the Yanks might put in a starter in for the suspended game since there is only a 20 minute wait between games. Then he can continue through game 2.
Marc,
Seriously?
If the Yankees’ offense decides to score 4 runs in the top of the first in the regular game, though, that wait could be a lot more than 20 minutes. It will be at least 30 minutes anyhow, even if the Yankees don’t score and go down quickly in the top of the 1st. If the starting pitcher is someone who doesn’t usually go more than 6 innings, then you’re looking at 5 innings of relief in the regular game, but I guess that’s a wash, because you still have to use someone to pitch those last 2 innings. And what about if the suspended game gets tied and goes into extra innings?
I think I’d rather see Mo in there to close it out. You take the games you know you can win. The next game could be a blow out and you wouldn’t need him anyway.
Hey I didnt say I agree, I would rather see Viz and then Mo.
I READ it somewhere.
The strategy for the suspended game will be interesting.
That’s Wang’s throw day. Do you put him in for the 8th and have Mo ready for the 9th?
It would be tough for Andy to do it because, as we saw Sunday, he stiffens up quickly with long waits between innings. A 20 minute wait after the first game? May be too tough for him at this stage of his career.
Its why the next two days will tell a lot of what they may do in that game. If they have to burn out the ‘pen the next two days, Mo, or another arm, may not be available.
Proctor is back tonight. You have to figure he will pitch 1-2 innings tonight.
Either way, that suspended game is huge. A two run lead in the 8th inning of any game is a game you have to win. That’s like a “found” victory if they can finish that one off.
Joba to the bullpen? That’s a tough call. He would have to have a VERY defined role for it to even be considered.
Plus, you have the issue of his warmups. How long does it take for him to get loose? If they warm him up, they have to use him in a game.
To me, there are too many moving parts that could go wrong for it to be contemplated.
I can understand why they are thinking about it. The kid has electric stuff and, unlike most in the bullpen, throws strikes from the get go.
I just as interested in seeing Ohlendorf in the bullpen (which is where he is now) than seeing the results of Chamberlain and Kennedy in Scranton.
Ohlendorf could be a real nice ‘pen option, this year or next, because of his nasty sinker. If he can transition to the bullpen quickly, he may be the guy that gets the callup.
The more I think about it the more I am against using a starter to finish the game. What happens if they get in trouble or give up runs. Than they are tagged with the loss, than they have to go out and pitch the next game. I’d much rather see a reliever like mo or viz in there.
I agree that its too early (in his career) to call up Chamberlain. Cashman and the Yankee brass will be as conservative as they have been with Hughes on the futures of both Joba and Ian.
Much discussion going on in the Press about Texas willingness to move Texiera. I really think the Yankees will make an offer (but only if they can sign Tex to 3-4 years)..and the package will include a few pitching prospects (Hughes & Chamberlain excluded).
Yes tonight’s game will be difficult. It’s frustrating to watch Moose whine and wince when he doesn’t get a favorable call on his 84-85 mph fastball! That said, I think he will do better against the Royals lineup than the Tampa hitters. When he’s healthy, Meche has always given the Yankees problems, so runs will be scarce. I doubt if Torre will use Shelley Duncan against Meche, He’ll be over matched.
Marc -
I’m sorry if I gave you the impression that I assumed you agreed.
I understood that it was just something you read. I was questioning the people who wrote it.
The Yankees better not give up Joba or Hughes. Next year or the follow years rotation would be sick!
Wang
Pettitte
Hughes
Joba
Ian
I heard they want two of the op pitchers. Totally insane for Tex.
man , when the yankees lefty’s hit ( cano , damon , abreu and matsui ) it’s bad news for who ever is facing them .
i want kennedy and chamberlain to stay in aaa for the rest of the year . no need to rush them . then they can go to spring training in ’08 and show thier stuff . hughes looked great . i cant wait for him to return .
igawa must see the writing on the wall . he’s terrible and just not mlb ready or worthy . he sees phill hughes about to take his spot in the rotation . i say send igawa to tampa again or flat out demote him to aa or aaa . maybe he learns how to pitch in the bigs . i say you cant teach a 27 year old jap new tricks . trade him to the nl for a huge loss . i dont think you can get a bag of balls for this jerk .
My feeling is the Yankees will only deal for Teixeira if the they don’t have to give up their best. Right now, 1B is not a huge issue. Having Teixeira would be great going forward, planning for the future, but if they don’t get him now, I don’t believe it’s a big deal. Except, of course, of Boston gets him instead. Also, unless they can work it out so that Teixeira is here for a long time, it’s just not worth it. It’s worth it to pass on him now and try to get him as a FA after 2008. The Dodgers are also said to be looking at him seriously. Or Texas could just turn around and keep him.
The Yankees haven’t had so many options in years with all the young pitching on the way. When you can take guys like DeSalvo, Clippard, Wright, Ohlendorf, Sanchez, and more and just drop them down a notch because of others rising quicker, then you’re in good shape. Some of these will be used to upgrade position players.
jennifer …
dont forget that moose still has another year on his contract
sj44 …
i think the official yankees website has meyers listed as the pitcher for fridays suspended game .
Man last night’s game was the most boring of the season. I actually felt bad for Singleton and Girardi to have to find things to talk about. Glad I was able to snooze during it. Anyway a wins a win, so that’s good.
As for tonights lineup, I think Melky draws the short straw after his 0-fer last night. So that would mean Damon in CF and Shelly at DH. Although Moose would probably not be thrilled about that so I guess we’ll see. Projected hours until we can start complaining about the posted lineup: 9 hours.
As for the races, like I said before this series, we need to catch Cleveland first, they are the more vulnerable team. Once there we can worry about Boston. So I’m glad Boston has won the first two, I hope they sweep.
Chris, I realize that, and I think Mike would cut a deal with the Yankees if he doesn’t think he can pitch anymore.
Also Myers is likely listed as the pitcher, because he was the last one in the game.
Wang started the suspended game. Does anyone remember if he was still in there when it was suspended? I do not think so. If not, he would not be available.
Oh and one thing on Hughes. I think Scranton lost their top pitcher after last night. The Yankees won’t announce it until after Igawa’s next start tomorrow, but there is no reason why Hughes won’t take his spot a week from today on Wed Aug 1st. That’s what I expect. Of course if Moose struggles, they could put him on the DL and either keep Igawa in the rotation or put in Joba/Ian or Karstens.
Buster Olney now says the Yanks may be eyeing Paul Konerko. Could be something to get Texas to start coming down off their demands for Tex.
Bronx –
Wang was removed from the game after 6 1/3 innings. Viz came in, then Myers, to finish out the 7th. So, even if it’s Wang’s throw day, he’s not available.
Gotta love the trade rumors!
As good as the offense has been lately and as good as Andy Phillips has played they could really use a right handed power bat like Konerko. Especially during September and during a playoff run.
Jeff,
They are going to keep Hughes down in Scranton for one more start because they are trying to build up his arm strength.
We can wait another week for him to return because his health is far more important than one extra start.
Secondly, Moose ain’t going on the DL if he’s not hurt. You start doing that and his agent and the player’s union will go nuts.
That isn’t an option. You can’t simply DL a player because he is struggling.
Why would a pro like Mussina ever quit? He obviously can still pitch. He may not get the results he wants but theres no way hes going to just quit especially with all that money still on the table. It just doesn’t happen.
He’ll make the adjustments he has to make. The Royals are the perfect lineup for him. Free swingers.
“Suspended Game Box Score”:http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....=270628101
They should be really focused on getting another set up man for the pen. Unless they really are intent on trying Joba out. With his stuff he could be a dominating late inning guy especially for this year. A little redo of ’96 which would be nice.
If I had to guess at the pitcher for the suspended game, I’d say Myers with Rivera in the ninth if needed. Since it is Wang’s throw day, a starter is out of the question unless they do something totally weird like get Pettitte to finish that game AND start the next… or call up Phil Hughes – its his throw day too. But I can’t see how either of those moves makes sense.
If it is going to be a reliever, they probably do not want to completely burn Rivera for the evening by giving him two innings. Myers is a logical choice for the eighth. There are two lefties are due up in the 8th for Baltimore. He is was in the game at the time it was suspended. He could pitch an inning and still come into the regularly scheduled game later to face a left or two.
I do love how all the people who said this team was done are eating crow right now.
I’ve never seen so much speculation about whos going to throw 2 innings of a game we’re leading 8-6 with runners on base.
The suspended game will probably be treated like any other game when they have a 2-run lead in the 8th.
Torre usually goes for the kill when his team has the lead late in the first game of a DH because you don’t know what’s going to happen in the nightcap.
So, based on that, I bet Vizcaino pitches the 8th and Mo pitches the 9th — just like any other game.
Torre usually goes for the win when the opportunity is there to take it.
That suspended game might be the game we all look back on and say that really turned the season around.
They needed a huge win that day and they blew a big lead with their ace on the mound yet found a way to come back. They showed some heart.
Torre will not take any chances with that game since he wants the win.
Unless they add to that 2 run lead. He’ll go with his guys and take no chances.
Never mind about Vizcaino.
It will probably be a rested Proctor instead because I checked out the box score and saw that Vizcaino already pitched in that suspended game so he’s not eligible.
Chuckles, I know the Yankees said Hughes is getting one more start, but I think they just don’t want to ruin Igawa’s confidence before tomorrow nights game. After the game, I think they will change their mind and slot in Hughes on Wed the 1st. That’s my prediction anyway, we’ll see soon.
How can anyone want Chamberlain to stay in AAA for the rest of the yr?
If the guy is ready he should come up. I guarantee you that he wants to come up and pitch in the bigs. He doesn’t want to stay in AAA. He wants to pitch in a pennant race.
And plenty of great starters started their careers by pitching in relief. That was how most pitchers broke in.
It won’t hurt his development. Johan Santana did pretty well starting in relief, right?
Oh wait I just noticed they don’t need a 5th starter until Sat Aug 4th. That would allow Hughes one more minor league start. Here’s the best part, I have tix to that game! That would be so sweet. Ok I officially change my prediction, Sat the 4th for Hughes.
Igawa should be more worried about throwing strikes than Phil Hughes taking his job. It should be obvious to him that Hughes is a complete stud and has no effect on his job. Hughes was taking someones spot.
Igawa should be more worried about himself and trying to help the team in the pen as a long man.
Because even he can see hes not one of the 5 best starters.
Jeff,
They aren’t going to mess with Hughes’ health. It has nothing to do with Igawa’s confidence.
They are going to build his arm strength and increase his pitch count to 90-100 pitches.
They aren’t going to screw around with the health of their potential ace for the next decade.
Count me in the group that would be very happy if I never saw Igawa in pinstripes again.
He’s got a reasonable salary for a SP. So I figure hes a goner during the off season.
They still need to improve their versatility on the bench. Someone that can actually hit and play multiple positions and give a starter a rest.
His salary is pretty low (since the posting fee is not included) and he does manage to strike guys out.
So I wouldn’t be completely surprised if another team wanted to take a chance on him.
I agree with Bronx that Myers will pitch the 8th in the Suspended game. Looking at the O’s lineup, it appears that Markakis (lefty) is due up first, Gomez, then another lefty in Huff. Of course, it will depend a lot on what Torre does with the pitching staff between now and Saturday. With Mussina and Igawa pitching back to back, the bullpen will see significant innings.
The suspended game is a big one – picking up a victory for two innings of work is huge given the Yankees’ position in the standings.
The suspended game brings up an interesting issue on the rules of baseball. Andy Phillips is in the game and batting 9th. Let’s say he was optioned out to AAA for a pitcher, days after the suspended game and is now at Scranton.
Who bats 9th? Can they recall him for that specific game without optioning a player? Anyone know if there is a rule covering transactions for a suspended game?
“I’ve never seen so much speculation about whos going to throw 2 innings of a game we’re leading 8-6 with runners on base.”
when is the last time there was a month in between innings?
what are we supposed to do, work?
“Who bats 9th? Can they recall him for that specific game without optioning a player? Anyone know if there is a rule covering transactions for a suspended game?”
i believe you can use anyone who was added to the roster. but you obviously can’t put someone back into the game that was removed.
no, i don’t think they could bring a player back from Scranton without making another roster move. current roster.
Look at the starting pitching around baseball.
Some team will take a chance on Igawa.
Hmmm is right.
They wouldn’t have to do any of that. If Phillips had been DFA’d, Torre could just use someone else in his slot as if he was simply taken out of the game.
I think its funny that people are so worried about every little detail of a suspended game.
Ship Igawa to Texas for Texeira. Tell Daniels he’s a stud. He’s dumb enough to go for it.
The Angels are out of their minds if they don’t make a Tex trade ASAP. That lineup is awful and their starting pitching won’t carry them forever.
When Orlando Cabrera hits 3rd for you, you’re not good. They should be foaming at the mouth for Tex.
Jeff NJ wrote
“Oh wait I just noticed they don’t need a 5th starter until Sat Aug 4th. That would allow Hughes one more minor league start. Here’s the best part, I have tix to that game! That would be so sweet. Ok I officially change my prediction, Sat the 4th for Hughes.”
SO DO I! You just got me SO excited!!!
the angels don’t need a 1Bman though. they need a DH.
Kotchman is a good player.
Kotchman is hitting: .289/.362/.471
Teixeira hits .265/.359/.492 on the road.
i am not ssaying they couldn’t use Teixeira, i am just saying that since the cost to acquire Teixeria will be steep, they should try to find a cheaper bat b/c they don’t gain much from Teixeira’s glove.
not sure who is out there though. Konerko might come cheaper since he is older and his contract situation is more onerous.
the other direction they could go would be to try to trade for Miguel Tejada.
Many in the organization favor seeing if Andy Phillips and Shelley Duncan can provide the offensive answers. And there are also many in the organization who worry that manager Joe Torre could stand in the way of the improvements they try to make. Torre was opposed to the team’s efforts to acquire outfielder Milton Bradley when the A’s put him on waivers, and he opposed a possible deal for Houston infielder Morgan Ensberg.
http://www.nj.com/sports/ledge.....038;coll=1
Jeff, funny I was figuring out when they would need a fifth spot when I came on here. You are right, there is a definite chance this will be Igawa’s last start of the year. If Hughes goes on normal rest in AAA, he’d pitch Sunday. With the off day, they could keep Pettitte, Clemens, and Wang on normal rest and then Hughes would be on five days rest on August 4th when that slot rolls around again. This seems to make the most sense.
I’m glad torre opposed Milton Bradley. He’s a disruptive influence in the field and dugout. Who’s want’s another Sheff without the power? Not thanks.
Er… no thanks!
Most reports seem to favor Tex to the Braves. Lots of people seem to think Daniels can get Salty and another pitcher for Tex from Schurholtz. Tyler Kepner of the Times also thinks with Hughes and Joba out of the picture, Tex will not be coming to NY. I agree. Too many other teams have better offers than what NY has to offer.
I would not have been opposed to acquiring Milton Bradley.
Pete – Any word to Johnny Damon’s reaction to Curt Schilling’s comments. On HBO last night – Costas asked Schill if he’d ever play for the Yankees. Schill said if he did it would make everything he did with Boston seem phony.
That sounds like a shot at Damon. Did Damon have anything to say?
Ted Boston
Ship Igawa to Texas for Texeira. Tell Daniels he’s a stud. He’s dumb enough to go for it.
=========================================
Haha thats a good idea.
Seriously,cant we dump Igawa on a NL team? I
really think Igawa will be a good NL pitcher.
James, funny about Igawa, anyone can be decent in the NL. I hear Met fans getting on us saying our schedule is bad, well your WHOLE schedule blows, the National League is an absolute joke except maybe the West, who the Mets play a few games. Every team in their division is either fatally flawed or just plain awful.
Igawa to the Mets to see how good of a pitching coach Rick Peterson really is
Reality check: Moose isn’t going anywhere. Not to the bullpen. Not to the bench. Not to the DL. And he most certainly is not going to retire and walk away from $11 million because his ERA is above 4.50. Get Real.
Reality check part 2: When Hughes comes back Moose will be one of the best #5 starters in all of baseball, if not the best. Don’t think so? Go do some research on #5 starters on just the contending teams, and you will see ERA’s of 6.75 all over the place. This isn’t fantasy baseball we’re dealing with.
Kevin…
Totally agree on all fronts. Kudos.
If keeping Moose in the rotation will cost us a playoff birth because he continues to stink up the joint and if Joba /Ian continue to dominate at AAA, I think Moose goes to the pen. That’s the right call.
If he does not get over it, who cares. He is an overpaid, underachiever, whiner, and frankly, I would just as soon as see Kennedy, Chamberlain or somebody else out there who is a gamer and does not stink like cow flop every 5th day.
Mets fans talking about our schedule. what a joke that is!! As you already stated, the nl east is a complete and utter joke. Neither the Braves or the Philles were able to take advatage of the Mets long losing streak.
Al,
You may not like what Schilling said, but it is a fact that Damon publicly stated that he would not go to the Yankees and then did exactly what he said he would not do. Any free agent is obviously free to go any team they choose, but it would be wiser to keep one’s mouth shut until they know for sure where they might go.
I don’t get the 5th starter argument….doesn’t the 5th guy start just as many games as your ace? Said differently, if you have an ace and an awful #5, the ace’s awesomeness will be largely offset by the #5s awfulness and you will largely be flat – i.e. a .500 team, which is not good enough to get you to the playoffs. So I take no solace in the fact, that Moose stinks, but stinks less the other guys clunker. If he goes against a 1, 2, or 3 we are largely sunk.
Why are we comparing Mets aaa schedule to ours? The best
team in the n.l. would be the 8th best in the a.l. Not
worth talking about. Let alone they need the highest
salary in the n.l. to compete.
VERY SAD.
Question, we all understand that Hughes will spell Igawa, if and when the Yanks obtain 27 year old Garland from the Chi-Sox, who does he spell…..He’d take Clemens role in 2008, but what about now…….
It’s kind of funny how you guys think Chamberlain and Kennedy could come up this year and be lights out. It’s not happening, they are still too young. Moose is in the rotation to stay, not going anywhere.
How is it a good thing if Moose pitches like a no. 5 starter?
I think Moose would actually do better in the pen. He seems
to wear down come the 4th and 5th innings. I know he would
not accept the demotion, but he would do better.
If the Yanks don’t make the post-season this year, it won’t be because of Moose.
Of course, the haters will blame him anyways.
Here’s something you have to consider with Chamberlain and Kennedy.
You don’t mess with their progress because they are both a big part of the Yankee future. Those guys may or may not be ready for the bigs just yet and you don’t want to push them.
What happens if Kennedy or Chamberlain hurts himself? Is it really worth the risk if they aren’t ready?
The simple answer is NO.
These guys were pitching at Class-A ball this season. Don’t push it.
Your right Chuckles.
Also theres a huge difference between AAA and the Majors. Hughes found that out his first start.
EDWHITSON,
To add on what you stated,the problem is we cant afford
to give games away every 5th game. I think even if we
dont promote any of our aaa studs or make a trade.
Give Karstens a shot in the rotation. He proved last
year he can keep us in games.
To play close to 700 ball we need a solid 1-5.
Putting Joba in the rotation is actually a very interesting proposition…I’ll give you that. But Moose has been far from terrible lately. He gives you a reasonable chance for 6IP and 3ER everytime he pithces…which is FANTASTIC for a #5 starter.
Moose is in the rotation to stay because you said so? Of course, if he stinks, he won’t get bumped? Utter nonsense. Chamberlain may not be lights out. Moose certainly isn’t. But don’t make the ignorant statement that Chamberlain is too young to be light out. That’s s right, I forgot young pitchers can never be good. Problem is somebody forget to tell that to Doc Gooden when he was 19……We all know Roger Clemens was pretty bad too, right? Hughes had a no hitter going on the road in his second game.
“If the Yanks don’t make the post-season this year, it won’t be because of Moose.”
Mussina has been very bad this season. He averages just over 5.5 innings per start and his ERA is well below average. He’s not the sole reason we’re in danger of missing the playoffs, but he’s a major factor.
Karstens is an upgrade over Moose? You people have lost your frieckin minds. Unreal.
Hey Josh, Hughes had a no hitter going in his second start. On the road. Yeah, I guess there is a huge difference……Convenient you forgot to mention that, no? Don’t let the facts get in the way of your opinion.
Karstens had a sub 4.00 ERA in 2006, better than Moose in H2 of ’06 and all year……the pitcher pitches, not his reputation from 2001.
EdWhitson:
I like how quickly the fans turn on Mussina. Last year until August, he was everyone’s favorite. Who cares if he “whines”?
His first three years here he put up ERA+ of 142; 108; 129. Granted, he was only decent in 2004 and 2005, but he bounced back with a nice 2006. He’s also 38 years old.
Sure, Mussina is kind of a pain in the ass. He’s probably not the kind of person you’d spend your Saturdays with. But outside of 2004, he’s always given more than or close to 200 IP. And he never really fell on his ass in the postseason, except for the 2002 ALDS (after saving the ALDS for us the year before).
Why don’t you save your bile for Irabu; Vazquez; Pavano; Contreras?
Kevin made a great point. This isn’t rotisserie baseball. 4.97 is ugly, but no team is operating with anything approaching a full deck when it comes to pitching.
Ed,
I’ll guarantee you that Gooden and Clemens weren’t pitching in Class-A the same year they pitched in the majors.
That’s quite a jump in one season and there is a reason why it is very rare.
Kevin is right. Moose’s last start was bad, but he hadn’t given up more than 3 runs in any start since June 2nd.
Let me know if you find another #5 starter with that kind of production and I’ll consider you smarter than the rest of us.
Ed Whitson:
Come on! Jeff Karstens? He put up a “sub 4.00 ERA” in 42.2 IP. Before we start minting and bronzing the commemorative plates, let’s remember a little thing called “sample set.”
Edwhitson,
Please tell me your not comparing Chamberlain to Hughes? Hughes is in a whole other class. Chamberlain doesn’t even have a quarter of the experience that Hughes has accumulated.
Yes he pitched well in the past.But he had a fastball
that actually reached the 90′s. Now hes become an el duque
without the nasty stuff.Bottom line if he doesnt make
adjustments, dont think for a minute they wont give
someone else a shot.
We dont need a 4.5-5 inning pitcher.
Could Mike Francesa stop pushing for Joba to come up? The kid hasn’t even pitched in AAA yet and he’s practically begging for the Yankees to call him up. He his not ready for the ML. I’m not sure why Mike thinks he is when he’s just looking at his numbers and not watching the games.
Did anyone else see this quote from Torre yesterday? Can’t believe my own eyes, but he actually did say this about his use of relievers:
“Not that we willfully abuse people, but you know, when panic sets in during a game, man, throw them all out there.”
Wow, that about says it all. Hilarious…Torre himself has finally admitted that he panics in tight games and burns out his bullpen.
Do you know how many teams would love to have a pitcher who puts up MLB average numbers in the AL East? I realize the Yankees are paying him about $20 million, so it’s not a “bargain.” But neither is offloading him going to save any money. He had one bad start against Tampa Bay. Before that, he pitched poorly against Boston on June 2.
I guess I must be challenged. Because I can’t think of any rationale, in that context, to replace Mussina with Jeff Karstens. It’s about as silly to me as a 3AM WFAN call-in suggestion.
I also read somewhere where other teams dont want any part
of our relievers because they have been over worked.
Kevin M.
The management of the bullpen is sometimes suspect. But bullpen arms, unless they’re attached to a prospect, are totally fungible. They’re not good enough to be starters or closers. They’re mostly not good enough to be lights-out setup men (very few teams have those). So they’re fringe by definition.
It’s not Scott Proctor’s flame-out was like the crucifixion of Tom Seaver.
Do you really think, sos 27, that scouts are scared off of Scott Proctor because he’s thrown 53 IP? Or Farnsworth because he’s thrown 40?
No. It’s probably just because they’re not really very marketable arms to begin with. Farnsworth is 31. Proctor is in his late 20s. Even Viz, whom they now CAN’T move, is 32 or so.
while everyone sorts through IP’s for the kids, I wouldn’t take Pete’s assumption that they are not moving anyone so casually.
with this big steinbrenner meeting mentioned, I find it VERY hard to believe that someone isnt getting shipped out via a trade.
cashman’s plotting something, it’s just a question of who and when. . .
A guy named K-Rod never pitched in Triple A either before he came up and helped the Angels win a Series.
Chamberlain doesn’t need Triple A.
If he can help the club what is the downside?
With his stuff and maturity he’d be a great guy to put in that pen for the final few months. Gets his feet wet. Learns. Dominates.
Kevin M:
Torre said that jokingly as he was walking away. Don’t take that quote literally.
Actually they are paying 11 million. People forget the kind of season he had last year. He had some good starts this year and got no run support so of course you aren’t going to win.
Halfz,
I give you viz and Farns. But I think Proctor was very
marketable last season. He has the Sturtze syndrome,
velocity isnt up there consistantly any longer.So when
he makes a mistake they dont foul it off like before.
There is a reason teams are circling around the Yanks bullpen arms.
Its because every pen in the league is terrible.
Have you not witnessed this the past month? We look like the 98 team compared to some of these teams.
Even Anaheim is terrible besides Shields/K-Rod.
Proctor would instantly be the best guy on half the pens in the game. Same with Farnsworth.
Guys with that kind of stuff will always be given a shot. Especially if they can get them cheap. Why wouldnt a team take a chance on Farnsworth? A change of scenery and he may become the guy he was.
Sarcasm goes right over some peoples heads.
First off K-Rod’s been pitching his whole life, Joba is relatively new to pitching. Why doesn’t he need AAA?
What I see is fans are looking at what can help the Yankees now. Apparently no one cares or is considering this can stunt his development as a starter, who BTW suppose to be ready next year.
Rumor has it that we are looking at Konerko.
How do you guys feel about getting him instead of giving
away too much for Texiera? He is right handed and has
22 bombs this year.
If Rick Petersen can make Igawa a good pitcher he would deserve a place in the Hall of Fame.
It should be a reality show.
Just think what we would be like if they would have got Dice K like they should have.
The japanese posting system is a sham and cost us a great pitcher and cost that pitcher 60 million bucks.
New to pitching?
Its not like he came from SS to start pitching this year.
If Jobas ready he should move up and help the club. Take the training wheels off. He’s a huge kid and obviously ready for it.
K-Rod handled it. Papelbon handled it. Why can’t he? And plenty of starters began their big league careers in relief first.
Pete
Thanks for the clarification….sort of irrepsonsible for espn to post the quote without putting it in context. It was pretty funny though.
But of course, Pete, even though Torre was joking we all know it’s still true!
Maybe we can ship Igawa to Seatle for one of their good
relief pitchers(SHERRIL,MORROW). They need starting
pitching and we need bullpen help.
He can take Weavers spot and its a big market for japanese
players.
If interest in Konerko makes Texas come down off their demands than I’m all for it.
And if Texas calls the bluff I wouldn’t mind Konerko at 1b either.
They’re both great bats. And just what we need. Right handed power.
All things being equal I’d rather have Tex since hes younger and just entering his prime.
Tony is right. Just about every team’s bullpen stinks this year. Just look around baseball.
Boston is the one notable exception. Especially, since DelCarmen has been lights out since his recall. They have a 7-8-9 trio teams seek to have.
Right now, the Yankees have the 8th and 9th covered with Viz (0.99 ERA since May 28) and Mo.
Its the 7th, and a swing guy that needs covering. Can it be Farnsworth or Proctor? Karstans? Hard to say.
It certainly can’t be Bruney since, he still can’t throw the ball over the plate and needs over 20 pitches per inning to get by. That’s not good.
It also would help if the back end of the rotation (Moose and Igawa/Hughes) could go deeper into games.
Moose’s problem isn’t that he isn’t good anymore. He isn’t. Its that he can’t eat innings like he used to.
If he can get back to giving them 6-7 innings per start, it takes the pressure off the bullpen. These 4-5 inning starts kill the bullpen as much (or more) than Igawa’s starts.
I have zero confidence Moose will be productive this year. He is what he is. What I am hoping for is for him to go deeper into games.
If he gives up 5 over 7 innings, it stinks but, I’ll live with it. Give up 5 over 4 innings is unacceptable. Its the innings, not the runs, that is the problem with Moose.
If it keeps up, they will have to get to consider getting him out of the rotation. It wouldn’t shock if that’s one of the reasons why both Chamberlain and Kennedy got promoted.
I find it interesting that Kennedy got promoted despite starting only 1 game in the last 10 days and Chamberlain got promoted after pitching his worst game of the season. With Cashman in attendance, no less.
Something is definitely up. Whether they are showcasing guys or contemplating changes from within. The promotions are just too odd (in terms of timing) to not think something is up.
Well, Seattle did take Horacio Ramirez for Soriano so anything is possible there.
Moose is what he is. A 5th starter. 6 innings tops.
But I think he’ll make some adjustments because he is such a pro. He is going to have to.
He says he’s new to pitching. He pitched in college and one year in HS. I don’t think his size has anything to do with him being ready. And I don’t think he’s ready. If this was such a no brainer and he was ready, he would be up here now.
SJ44,
I think something is up as well. But hopefully it isnt
to showcase how Ian and Joba can pitch in aaa,so they
can trade one of them away.
The promotions seem obvious.
Chamberlain is coming up after Aug 1.
Kennedy is next in line if they need a starter or even another arm in the pen.
They have the stones to put two rookies in the pen?
Two rookies who have been lights out and seem to be able to handle it.
You can only baby a great talent for so long.
Sometimes talent bursts their way thru.
Joba seems to be one of those guys.
The other part of the equation that many of you are missing….Ohlendorf has moved to the bullpen with these promotions.
He may be the guy that gets the call. That power sinker can be murder to hit. Especially if he only pitches one inning.
Look at his minor league splits this year. He is usually lights out in the first three innings, then gets into trouble. That screams, “relief pitcher” to me.
He has more experience than Joba and, if he can adjust to the ‘pen, he just might be the 6th/7th inning option.
Hopefully, he adjusts well to the bullpen.
Didnt ohlendorf just come off the dl. Do you think they
will throw him in there without enough innings in aaa?
Maybe they are getting him prepped for next year.
“a Canadian Holiday (National Pizza Day).”
Um, Pisano Fasano better be catching that day. Jussayin’.
Anyway, I didn’t read all the comments but I definitely agree with those of you who would prefer Ohlendorf over Joba in the pen. Ohlendorf pretty much projects to be a major league reliever anyway doesn’t he? So why mess with Joba’s routine and have him getting up, sitting down, getting up. Plus I wouldn’t want him to get too used to only relying on his fastball and his slider. Both these pitches are already dominant and I’d like to see him get the chance to make his curve and his change almost as dominant.
As for the Konerko trade rumors, I’ve always liked him a lot and thought back when he was a FA that he would be a good fit for this team. The Angels have also long liked him a lot and tried to sign him in free agency. I expect them to go hard at him before the deadline…I’m sure they would rather have him than Adam Dunn. But their GM is notoriously overconservative (IMO) when it comes to parting with prospects.
We already know a Tex trade is not happening as long as they keep asking for a package built around Hughes or Joba. I hope that at this point Tabata is considered untouchable too. But what does everyone think the Pale Hose would ask for Konerko? Is it possible to get that deal done without trading any of the aforementioned untouchables or Kennedy?
For the record, I am among those who don’t think we NEED a first baseman. But if we don’t have to give up much to get a deal done (ala the Abreu trade) then it is hard to say no to a Konerko.
For those of you who want to coddle Kennedy and Chamberlain, please express to me who we add instead to the bullpen? With no real pitching options available via trade, the Yankees have the ability to make the biggest splash by adding Hughes and promoting Chamberlain after July 31st. What other team in contention has the opportunity to add that type of instant talent?
Combine the possibility of adding a Tex or Konerko AND adding Hughes as a starter and Chamberlain in the BP, the Yanks are poised for a great run at the playoffs.
I think it’s being too conservative and cautious to hold back guys like Kennedy and Chamberlain. This is the Yankees and we haven’t missed the playoffs since ’95. When has the Yankee Brass not done what they could to make a playoff push? With no real options as far as arms go, I can’t see why promoting within isn’t the best course of action. The naysayers can bring up injury possibilities or “stunting” their growth, but to that I say this: Injury is always a possibility… whether it happens in the minors or majors. And second, if they are effective pieces of a late playoff run, think what that can do for their development and confidence.
By the way Toronto is doing us a favor by crushing
the twins today. They look like they are fading fast
and is one less team we have to worry about.
Who says the al east is weaker than the central.
Halfz,
1. Last August Moose was not my favorite and should not have been anyone else’s favorite if they were paying attention. His 2006 season, was 2 seasons. The first half he was very good, the second half he was bad. You said, he was “only decent” in 2004 and 2005 and that combined with a bad second half of 2006 should be of a concern. This is not 5 or 6 years ago and he just is not very good.
2. I understand the law of small averages, but Karstens last 40 innings were better than Moose’s and that was my only point.
Speaking of Alex…Everyone go laugh at the moron Lupica
http://www.firejoemorgan.com/s.....e%20lupica
“Reality check part 2: When Hughes comes back Moose will be one of the best #5 starters in all of baseball, if not the best. Don’t think so? Go do some research on #5 starters on just the contending teams, and you will see ERA’s of 6.75 all over the place. This isn’t fantasy baseball we’re dealing with.”
Kevin M:
Here’s “Reality check part 3″:
a. The Yankees are 6-10 in Games started by Mussina this year.
b. The Yankees are 7-4 in games started by the inconsistent Kei Igawa.
c. The Yankees are 4-4 in games started by the combo of Karstens/Rasner.
Who’s a better alternative at this point in the Season?
Stick your ERA…it means nothing if you can’t pitch to the game’s score.
Mussina is an overpaid, under achieving whiner who puts his teammates ill at ease during games he starts – just watch their body language!
I also couldn’t believe what Lupica wrote!
Arod has to do it in the clutch B.S This all stems from FOX and the media outside of NY that tune into Yankee baseball in October and criticize every at bat. I think its more valuable to have an RBI in almost every game(100 for 100) than to ho hit a few in a few game span in the playoffs when they pitch around him.
Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t the purpose of a hitter to score runs?! 100 RBI’s in 100 games!!!
Lupica, Arod was in 4 games last post season. The Yanks never reach the playoffs last year without his support and wouldnt be 15 games out right now without his 100 RBI’s!!!
LathomJoe couldnt have worded it any better.
Exellent points.
I’m no Igawa fan but, there is nothing, NOTHING worse than watching a Mike Mussina start this year.
He can’t touch 88 in the strikezone anymore. By the fifth pitch of the game, he is already staring down the homeplate umpire, guaranteeing he won’t get any close calls, and he simply can’t go deep into games anymore.
The body language stinks and the pitch selection is worse. He only liked pitching to Nieves because he can shake him off at will. Something he can’t do with Posada. Its like getting a root canal watching him pitch. No fun at all.
Its brutal to watch. Only topped by the excuses that follow in his post-game interview.
As a Yankee fan, all you can do is hope to survive Moose starts and hope the bullpen isn’t blown out picking him up. Expecting him to step up is something I don’t bother expecting anymore.
I would love to be proven wrong tonight, and would love not to need a Kei Igawa win to win a series. But, I’m afraid that’s not being realistic.
If Hughes comes back and pitches well, the Yankees may have a VERY tough decision to make in August if Moose continues to pitch poorly.
At some point, I don’t care who it is, you can’t keep running guys out there to get their brains bashed every start. Especially, if you are in a playoff hunt.
They may not be saying it but, IMO, the promotions of Chamberlain and Kennedy have as much to do with the possibility of moving Moose out of the rotation as anything else. Its already a given Hughes replaces Igawa.
There is no logical explanation to promoting those guys for their “development” since, AA hitters are as good, or better than AAA hitters.
Seems to me they are getting both guys ready to pitch in the Bronx. Perhaps sooner than any of us could have ever imagined.