Pitching plans to be decided
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- July
- 27
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Joe Torre said after the game that Ron Guidry wants to stay in a five-man rotation despite the day off on Monday because that would give the starters an extra day of rest.
But with Kei Igawa pitching so poorly, it’s something they will talk about again on Friday.
That spot in the rotation will come up Tuesday. The Yankees would seem to have 4 options:
Igawa again. Phil Hughes (who is supposed to start for Scranton on Sunday), Joba Chamberlain (who pitched for Scranton on Wednesday) or somebody else.
The best move might be to skip the fifth starter this time then pitch Hughes on Aug. 4. Once I find out what’s going to happen, I’ll pass it along.
That’s it for tonight. Need to head to the airport hotel and catch an early flight to Baltimore tomorrow.
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on Friday, July 27th, 2007 at 12:39 am by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
No more Iggy pls !!
Someone needs to tell Torre and Cashman that Igawa’s Make a Wish segment is over.
Igawa SHOULD NOT BE AN OPTION!!!
Is Karstens ready yet? I know he started rehabbing a little before Hughes(who I know Cashman and Torre have said is going to make one more rehab in Triple A). If not, I also think the 4-man is the best idea. You can’t expect the lineup to have to score 5-6 runs every time Igawa starts just to have a chance to win. Either way, I definitely don’t want to see Igawa starting anytime soon. He’s like a rally killer in the rotation. I looked at the schedule and almost felt like we HAD to beat Gil Meche to have a chance to take 3/4 with Igawa pitching and luckily enough, that happened. I definitely don’t think Joba should be starting at the major league level this year at all. The bullpen idea could work, but he started the year in Single A and to expect him to be able to pitch effectively in the majors already is too much to ask and I wouldn’t want them to take the chance of setting back his confidence or development.
In a really far stretch as I don’t see this happening, I’ve heard rumors of the Yankees interested in Jon Garland. The odds of him being a Yankee by Tuesday I’d think are probably almost non-existent, but just for the sake of argument, depending on who they gave up, it wouldn’t be the worst move as it would take pressure off the need for Hughes to be the #5 guy(although I think he’s really determined to take the role, he’s been pitching really well in his rehabs) and he’s been pretty consistent over the past few seasons and could still have a spot next year filling in the void of Clemens while not keeping Hughes out of the rotation. Again, this was really just an afterthought, and almost an entirely hypothetical scenario.
my choices:
1) hughes
2) skip and then hughes
3) karstens
4) anyone else but igawa
I don’t care how much they paid him. I do NOT want to see IGAWA pitch for my team ever again. And yes it is my team because I am a paying season ticket holder. Not starting. Not relieving. Nothing. Deport the Simpson’s look-a-like character. He’s AWFUL. AWWWW-FUL. End the experiment. Go ahead and use Karstens, Clippard, DeSalvo, whoever. Just NO IGAWA. EVER.
The best option for us to win a game w/ our fifth starter is anyone besides Igawa or DeSalvo. If Karstens is ready, use him on Tuesday, if not, f ‘ it, give Chamberlain a start and then put him in the bullpen for the remainder of the season and Hughes takes over the fifth spot Aug 4 or so. No Igawa, we can afford mistakes so hopefully they just admit it was not the best decision and move on, simple as that.
Trade Iggy to the Cardinals for Rick Ankiel or John Rodriguez.
Thanks for the update Pete!
I’d pass on Igawa and pitch either Hughes or Chamberlain. I’d like to see Hughes because he already showed, albeit briefly, what he has at the MLB level. So he deserves the next shot. There aren’t too many other options available and I don’t think that having a few days off will adversely affect him.
If we want to make a run for the division, this is the best time to find out what we have. It’s early enough to find out if either Hughes or Chamberlain can help us get over the edge.
I think Igawa could become a decent pitcher at some point but not at the expense of losing another game and putting more pressure on him and the team. He’s got to be reeling already because his confidence is in the gutter. We already know what he has so far and it hasn’t been good at all.
I must admit, Chamberlain intrigues me most. He appears to have moxy and I think he’s going to be great when he’s given the opportunity to pitch at the MLB level.
I’m curious to know what you’d do if you could pick Tuesday starter? Why?
1 – Igawa
2 – Hughes
3 – Chamberlain
4 – Karsten
5 – None of the above
J in PA,
“I do NOT want to see IGAWA pitch for my team ever again. And yes it is my team because I am a paying season ticket holder.”
I find this idea that somehow season ticket holders have more importance or should be taken more seriously than average fans very troubling.
Why does your possession of season tickets make the team more “yours” when compared with average fans?
Do you have ownership shares in the team? Stock?
Compared to the 16 year old who saves up money from an after school job to by bleacher tickets, you’re possession of a ticket plan makes you entitled to something?
Or how about all of the fans on this board who live outside the New York area or even outside the U.S.?
Last time I checked the Yankees seemed pretty intent on developing a global fan base. Seems unlikely that Matusi fans in Japan are going to be shelling out money for a season ticket plan.
Why does the fact that you have season tickets make your opinion more important or valid when compared with other Yankee supporters?
This is such a common attitude these days in many sports and baseball in particular. I pay more money for my tickets ergo I am important?
Should the team set up a ranking system based on how much money people pay for tickets? Do you have season box seats? And if not should the team listen to those with first row season box seats the most?
Giving the team an automatic loss is not worth giving the pitchers an extra day of rest. Hughes and Karstens will not be ready to come up, Desalvo can not come up…just skip the 5th starter for the one start!!!! It is hard for the team or offense to have confidence in him when he shows that he has ZERO in himself. They can not continue to throw him out there and give up games..Myers throwing with his right arm or even Cairo cant be as bad as him…
Melky’s gotta have a decent fastball.
I meant to add that someone mentioned, I cannot remember where I read it though, that Igawa’s six inning shutout performance against Boston was essentially relief(despite being top 1 with no one out). Maybe he’s a bit of a head case when it comes to starting. Not that it’s an excuse. Being preapred mentally is just as important, but it’s possible he might be more effective in the bullpen. Or he might just be terrible. Yeah, that’s probably more likely.
I know this is off topic, but look at what the Braves offered Texas:
Sources told FOXSports.com’s Ken Rosenthal that the Braves are offering Jarrod Saltalmacchia, Matt Harrison and Elvis Andrus to the Rangers for Mark Teixeira alone.
If that’s the truth, why haven’t the Rangers accepted it already? We wouldn’t be surprised if the Rangers were floating this to try to get other teams to improve their offers. To get one of baseball’s truly elite prospects and two more top-150 guys for a year and a third of Teixeira would be a fine deal for Texas.
I’d rather they skip the day than trot out either DeSalvo or Igawa. Both are equally worthless.
E-Roc,
I completely agree with you. If Texas has the chance to get Salty along with Andrus and Harrison they would be insane not to do it.
That said, there is no way that rumor is true. Salty, Andrus and Harrison are literally the Braves three best prospects.
Whatever happens in that situation, if the Braves and Texas do make a trade i’m very confident that John Daniels isn’t going to be pulling the wool over John Scheurholz’s eyes. There’s a bit of a mismatch when it comes to baseball accumen there and its not in Daniels favor.
I can’t even imagine the Braves trading Salyty and Andrus for Tex given that he may be a year and a half rental.
How painful would it be to trade Salty? Assuming that at his size he can catch long term (an if I know) – how many times to you get a player like that in your system.
Granted, by the Braves have two of those players in their system at once in Salty and McCann but it’s still got to hurt.
And if you trade Salty, to put him in a package that’s not to get a young power arm is a tough thing to do.
Given the value of a switch hitting catcher who can hit and Tex’s contract situation, I’d have to think the Braves could get Tex for Salty and 1-2 good but not great prospects.
It’ll be difficult for Texas to get any player back as valuable as Salty. He’s too rare a commodity and if you happen to be able to trade for him I think you jump on that chance. At catcher he’ll be so high above replacement level at his position that you can’t pass on that.
CB,
I didn’t type anything in that entry I made, except for the first line. I forgot to give credit to ROTOWORLD, which is where that info came from. I think that offer is very real, because it’s on foxsports.com. Ken Rosenthal and another writer reported that same offer too. I think the Braves are overvaluing Teixeira. I would never trade Saltalamacchia. Why not have him play first?????????? Let alone, give Texas two other top tier prospects.
as quickly as Chamberlain has blown through the minors, I think it would be a huge mistake to put him in the rotation sooner rather than later. That is how you get him hurt and worn out. We’ve got a viable #5 in Hughes and possibly on the trade front.
Let him work his way through and through SWB and really the only time I would bring him up is if the yanks are out of the playoff race entirely…god forbid
there’s no defense for starting igawa again. none. it would just be cashman’s refusal to accept that his boy is a complete bust, and utter stupidity on the part of torre and guidry to allow it to happen. igawa has proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that he doesn’t belong in the major leagues. enough, already.
E-Roc,
I figured that was a quote you copied. No worries.
Ken Rosenthal also reported that the Yankees were in serious discussion about trading Hughes for Tex a couple of weeks ago.
I seriously doubt any of those discussions got anywhere. The yankees were never, ever going to trade hughes for anyone in baseball (ok maybe pujols, howard or santana) never mind Tex as a one year rental.
If Scheurholz isn’t the best GM in baseball he’s in the top 5. How many bad moves does he make, especially with prospects?
I think if you are Atlanta you have to consider trading Salty. Again, it’s very painful but you have to seriously give it consideration because of value.
Salty’s maximum value in baseball, and its not even close, is based on his position as Catcher. Being a catcher throws him into another stratosphere of value.
His value at first, even if he puts up great numbers isn’t the same. Not even in the ball park.
For that reason his trade value should be higher than his value to the club if you keep him and play him at first. By that I mean Atlanta should be able to get great return on him.
If they can turn him (along with a few other decent prospects) into a young 27 year old superstar that’s not a bad way to leverage his value.
I don’t think you can assume that Salty is going to be the hitter (never mind the fielder) that Tex is at first. The downside of course is the money and the fact you have Salty under control
This is an interesting case for how it pertains to the yankees and their surplus of talented young pitching (outside hughes, chamberlain). The yanks have to determine how many of these arms have direct value to the organization vs. downstream value in trades because there won’t be room for all of them.
E-Roc,
Also, my strong preference if i was Atlanta would be to trade Salty for good young pitching.
No one wants to trade young arms right now. One of the few trade pieces that could get you a top young pitcher is a switch hitting catcher who can hit.
I think that would be the ideal thing to do for Atlanta, especially because they don’t have a lot of elite young arms int their system as I understand it. Even Harrison isn’t that great.
Yeah, Salty’s value is as a catcher but he can play first. I just wouldn’t trade him for a rental. I don’t see the logic in that, unless they want the draft picks. I do think the Braves are better than the Mets at this point so I guess they’re going for it all this year and next. It’s just my opinion.
I agree on the rental aspect. Tex at 9 – 11 million is great value.
Tex at 18 million/ yr for 150 million long term isn’t nearly the talent.
A big if but if Jesus Montero does pan out, the yankees are going to have to make a similar decision on where to play him vs. where his maximum value is.
He’s already 6ft 4 230 at the age of 17 (well supposedly 17). Can you play catcher at 6ft 5 250 lbs? Conversely, his potential power numbers at that position would make him completely unique (again, chances are he doesn’t pan out but say the projections are right…)
LOL, Montero is a rather large human being. I don’t think he’ll be playing catcher in the future. Montero might play first or DH.
Do u have any updates on the IFA??
But if they could keep him at catcher, and he turned out to be a guy who could hit 40 home runs a year, his value would be immense.
By IFA do you mean international free agents?
If so – the yankees did very well once again. This was supposed to be a relatively weaker group than the past few years and the yankees signed a 16 year old outfielder from the dominican named Kevin DeLeon who was supposed to be one of the best, in not the best, prospects this year. He supposedly signed for around 1.1 – 1.3 million.
It’s hard to project these things – a crap shoot given the ages and how relatively physically underdeveloped some of these kids from poor countries are.
That said, it looks like the yankees may have found a real gem in last years international signings with Jairo Herredia. He’s arguably been the best pitcher in the gulf coast league this year at the age of 17. He’s putting up numbers approaching Betances’ last year in the GCL. He’s one to watch.
Is signing period over for IFA?
The signing period is over. The yankees and sox announced all of their signings. The only top prospect who hasn’t signed publicly (at least he hadn’t last time i heard) was Jose Jose. It seemed like he had probably signed with the mets or braves. The sox didn’t get him as had been long rumored.
Who do u think will be our RF next year?
We were debating that before. It’s a tough one.
A lot of it depends on what happens with ARod. If he leaves they really need a right handed power bat.
Would you pick up Abreu’s option at $16 million?
Bad value but the one year contract is attractive.
I’m honestly a bit tired of Abreu and would be hesitant to bring him back.
One thing I’ve wondered with him is if the yanks turn down the option and he signs elsewhere what do the yankees get in terms of compensation? He’d qualify as a Type A player bases on stats.
The way they’ve drafted recently, if they could get a first rounder and supplemental for him I’d consider it.
A key question is can you play damon, melky and matsui in the outfield together for the whole season? I think the overall team hitting could sustain that but I’d be very concerned about the outfield defense.
I’d consider exploring a second tier free agent outfielder, an Eric Byrnes type. Play him in center maybe and move melk y to right. I’d guess that with Jones, Hunter and Rowand on the market guys like byrnes might get squeezed? Don’t know.
If you could sign him to a three year deal to bridge the gap to Tabata I’d consider it. Don’t know if he’d sign for like 3 for 30 million but i’d look into it.
I want the club to move away from the idea that they need an all start at every position. good multidimensional players to fit around the jeters and arods. I’m not wedded to Byrnes but that type.
Another option, but risky, would be Kosuke Fukudome from Japan. He’s the top Japanese player available, 29 i think does a lot of things well. People are guessing he’ll get 3-4 yrs at $10million per. What’s good about him is that he’s a true free agent – no posting fee. After the disaster of igawa however, that might be a big risk.
What are your thoughts on RF?
CB:
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Yes
5. Yes
6. Yes
7. Yes
8. Yes
9. Yes and
10. Yes
Period.
The Chunichi Dragons drafted Fukudome in 1998 in the first round as a shortstop. Manager Senichi Hoshino used Fukudome in 132 games in his rookie year, and Fukudome responded well, hitting 16 home runs, with a .284 batting average, contributing to his team’s league championship. However, he also led the league in strikeouts, and had poor defense at shortstop. Fukudome was fast, and had a strong arm, but simply did not have the ability to field ground balls. He made several errors which led to his team’s loss in the championship series, and was often taken out of games in later innings.
He was converted to third base in his second year, but his fielding made little improvement, and his hitting dropped down as well. He was converted to outfield the next year, and played poorly at first, but gradually made improvements, becoming the regular right fielder. His natural speed and strong arm worked wonders from then on, and he has received 4 Golden Glove awards in the outfield.
His hitting improved dramatically as well, and stopped Hideki Matsui’s run for the triple crown in 2002, with the highest batting average in the league (.343). He hit .313 with 34 homers the next year, establishing himself as one of the best hitters in the league.
In 2004, he joined the Japanese Olympic baseball team for the second time, winning a bronze medal in the Athens Olympics. He was chosen for the 2006 World Baseball Classic team, and pinch-hit for a two-run homerun off Byung-Hyun Kim in the semi-finals against Korea. He pinch-hit again in the finals for a two-run hit against Cuba.
In 2006, he batted .351 with 31 homeruns and 104 RBIs, winning the Central League MVP award.
His total performance in Japanese career resembles that of Akinori Iwamura, who is a current infield player of Devil Rays.
Career accomplishments
800 games(863)
3,000 at bats(3,087)
500 runs(532)
900 hits(922)
100 doubles(192)
400 walks(426)
100 home runs(148)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosuke_Fukudome
Oh yeah, he becomes a free agent this August. I don’t know how the rules work with that, but if they Yankees can sign him at that time, they should.
If not Fukudome, then my choices are Rowand and Byrnes respectively. Doesn’t Matsui become a free agent in two or three years?? There might be an opening there too.
There’s no posting fee for Fukudome because he’s served enough time in Japan to qualify as a true free agent. He can be signed just like any other free agent.
A year ago I’d say he would be very attractive to sign. He’s supposed to be a true 5 tool player, has experience in big spots and can play right field.
One of the things that I really like about signing him is that there would be no compensation. the yankees wouldn’t lose any draft picks. given how well they’ve done in the draft that could be very important.
My question is this – after Igawa can they really afford to go back to the well on Fukudome?
I think Japanese hitters adapt to MLB better than pitchers. Look at the success of Japenese hitters. Ichiro, Matsui, even Kaz Matsui is doing well in Colorado, and Akinora Iwamura are all hitting well in the MLB. Oh yeah, Kenji Jojima is hitting well too. I’d take a chance.
I think your points on the Japanese hitters are very well made.
They really have done very well. Tad Iguchi also (well until this year and the team wide funk on chicago). I’ve also been particularly surprised to see how well Kaz Matsui has rebounded and is doing in Colorado. He really looked like an absolute bust and has come back to be an outstanding value for them. The Mets must shake their head every time they see him play (or at least Wilpon)
I really like Iwamura’s game and have been very impressed with him. Does everything well other than hit for power and can play multiple positions. Great deal for Tampa – i thought it was odd they bid even $3 million for the posting fee on him but they clearly knew what they were doing. They may have been the only ones. If he hadn’t gotten the muscle strain his numbers would be much better right now. Missed a lot of time.
I do like the Fukudome idea as the other candidates are far from perfect. I don’t want jones or hunter (although if they lose arod’s right handed bat i could see them panicking on jones). Their too expensive. Rowand also coming off this all star year (i do like his game).
You’d have to think fukudome would want to play for the yankees. I think as a younger player he idolzied matsui.
You think Cashman will have the guts to sign Fukudome after Igawa? I think the fans will go nuts (take a sample of comments from the board).
Jeff Karstens is an option if Hughes isn’t ready for Tuesday.
At this point I rather bring back Bernie and have him pitch if they want Iggy to start again. They need to leave this kid down in the minors for at least a year and hopefully he can bounce back up. I don’t even trust him in pitching relief. I can’t wait till Hughes comes back and I want to see Joba in the majors this year. To compare Joba like a Verlander, what the hell are they waiting for to bring this kid up????
Another thing about giving everyone an extra day of rest, won’t that mess up Mussina’s “routine”, and he will then pitch poorly as a result? I’ve heard enough of Mussina’s excuses over the years, and would like to minimize any chances for him to be out of his comfort zone when he pitches. I would prefer they skip the 5th spot, but if they insist on it, I’d pitch Karstens.
Yankeefan4ever,
They are thinking about his future and his innings not about you the fan who just wants to see him already.
Peter-With only 4 days left till the deadline have you heard any rumors on the Farnsworth trade front?
Igawa is not an option for any more starts or any bullpen work. He wasn’t ready right from spring training. Admit the mistake and keep him in lower levels until his head is together. Everything has been tried mechanically and hasn’t worked. Players can’t possibly feel a comfort level with him on the mound. Saynoonara !!!!
Jesus Montero may not be the future Yankee catcher. Unless a [sane] deal can be worked for Saltalamaccia, the future is Francisco Cervelli (Tampa) or P.J. Pilittere (Trenton) for 2009. Jorge and Jose will handle the plate in 2008.
On Igawa: “UNCLE!”
I kept hoping he’d be able to make the adjustments, but clearly it’s not something he’s going to be able to do while pitching at major league level. He needs a lot of work to counter-act years of pitching a particular way, successfully, in Japan. It must be very difficult for him to wrap his head around the fact that what made him so successful back in his home is so disastrous here. I wish him luck and I hope at some point he can make those adjustments, I just don’t think he should pitch for the NY Yankees again this season, not starting, not relief.
Imagine the fun one could have with a player’s name like Fukudome (and yes, I do know the correct pronunciation).
Although overall last night’s game was a bust, the bright spot was the work of Jose Molina. His foul-ball catch, the hits, throwing out the runner on a steal — all good work. I don’t expect him to hit like this every time, but I would think you could expect the defense and that is good news. Now it’s not such a downer day when Posada rests.
It sure seemed like every time the Yankees hit a ball hard last night it was turned into an out. The worst at-bat was Matsui’s early in the game when he popped out, though, and Matsui knew it. You can’t win ‘em all, so I hope they regroup for Baltimore. it’s kind of yucky outside today, anyone know the forecast for Baltimore for tonight? Hope it doesn’t rain. I know t-storms are kind of in the forecast for this area all weekend.
I dont care what we get for Farnsworth. Prospects, prospects, prospects. Getting rid of Farnsworth would be addition by subtraction for the Yankees. I hope it happens. We have a couple of guys who can be brought up from the minors who would give us a better look than what we’re getting from Farnsworth. If it takes us paying his entire contract next year it would be worth it to dump him. I’d love to get someone like Ty Wiggington for him but like I said the return isnt very important in this case. If we could get a few prospects that would be good enough. A position player of another pen arm would be ideal but the most important thing is ridding ourselves of our bullpen cancer, Kyle Farnsworth.
I don’t know why they keep throwing Igawa out there. Skipping his day gives this team the best chance to win fer cripes’ sake. There’s no excuse for bringing him out there when this team needs every win you can get. He never lasts more than 5 innings so what difference does it make if it’s Hughes for 5 or Igawa for 5 as far as throwing a warm body out there. Hughes gives you a billion times better chances of winning than Mr. Fat -Toad- Pitch. Keep Hughes’ pitch count at 100, and use Henn/Villone as back ups.
Good grief.
* Best quote from Kei, “I need to get to know major league hitters”
#1 listen to your catcher, they know major league hitters. I’m sure they not telling you to throw a pitch up in the zone. That is where major league hitters, hit doubles, tripes and homeruns. Unlike in Japan where it is a single or a pop up. I’m sure you’ve been told this numerous times, but for some reason you think you can live up in the zone and get away with it.
I really hope Joe rethinks this not skipping the 5th starter thing, espically since they keep saying they will NOT bring up Hughes yet. IF they want Hughes to have another rehab, than skip the 5th starter and bring him up when you need a 5th starter. IF they insist upon not skipping than bring up Joba. I DO NOT want to see Igawa wearing Yankee pinstripes again! He had one good game and that was the game in relief against the soxs.
Doreen – it’s supposed to rain all bloody week… but since weather men are about as reliable as Igawa’s fastball, who knows how many games they can sqeak in.
“Baltimore Weather”:http://www.weather.com/weather/tenday/USMD0018?from=search_10day
Today: Isolated T-Storms 91 deg 30% chance of rain
Sat: Scattered T-Storms 92 deg 40% chance of rain
Sun: Scattered T-Storms 88 deg 50% chance of rain
Mon: Scattered T-Storms 86 deg 60% chance of rain
http://trailfire.com/sportsinbox/marks/129829
Some interesting trade talk in this article.
Do you think Scottie is worth more than Wiggy? Also good news we might have a bidding war for his services, the Dodgers are also interested.
Joe also left the door open for Phil to make his next start in the bigs.
Correct, Jennifer. The time for the Igawa experiment is over – done – nada – zip – zero. If they ease him out by sending him to the bullpen then that too will be a major mistake.
Start Hughes. Put Joba in the pen. Send Igawa back to Japan.
Really simple.
I don’t know what happened to my other post. But I posted a link to the ny post site. George King had some interesting information about trade talks. Looks like Scottie is in demand. So maybe we can get something for him. ALthough I think i’d like to see Kyle go first. Sounds like the tigers are interested.
What is the fascination with Salty?
The only way they get him is if they give up Chamberlain so forget it.
Teams don’t trade catchers who can hit unless they get stud prospects or all stars back.
Tony what is the return policy? I think we might be over it.
Seriously they should quietly buy him him and send him back to Japan. I also wonder if they could get back some of the posting fee. Does mlb check to make sure the teams actually paid the full bid amount? Maybe we never actually paid the full 20 million or what ever it was. 20 million that is so insane for the piece of garbage! Ugh makes me angry just thinking about it.
Yeah, thats great. Help out the team you may be playing in round 1 of the playoffs. Again. Bad enough they got Sheff for nothing.
The Yankees need bullpen help. Why would they make trades to lose trustworthy people there?
The posting system is a joke. Without it we’d have Dice K right now and Igawa would be with the Mets. Maybe he could get NL hitters out.
The only people it rewards are the Japanese teams. A terrible system.
Tony, Kyle isn’t exactly trustworthy. He has shown in the past that he melts down in the playoffs. I dont’ know if i’d trade him to the Tigers though. I think i’d first look to unload him on an nl team.
Well I prefer they skip the 5th starter until Sat then bring up Hughes, but I’m a bit biased having tickets to that game on Sat the 4th. If not I’ll see Wang, so I’m ok with that. No more Igawa-DeSalvo-Wright-Clippard-Karstens-Rasner’s please.
With as bad as the bullpens are around baseball a guy like Proctor could command a hefty return. But then again why trade a guy like that? He’s cheap. Durable. And has gotten big outs. Don’t we need guys like that?
Even Farnsworth in valued out there. A guy who throws 98. Has had proven success. If I were a GM I’d be buying low on him. Hoping a change of scenery corrects it.
You don’t find guys out there who throw that hard.
Anyone know what the story is on Rasner? I haven’t heard anything about him returning?
but he throws is straight. He’s had something like 3 1-2-3 innings the entire season! He also gets to preoccupied when a runner gets on first and has made at least 2 errors on throws over.
Torre obviously trusts Farnsworth. For what thats worth. He trusts the stuff. You really more comfy with Britton pitching than Farnsworth? He just needs to figure it out and throw strikes. He did it last year. It’s not like it just disappeared. its there somewhere.
Keep in mind this is the same crowd that wanted Bruney in the 8th and Edwar pitching big innings.
hey jennifer, I’m not saying hes been good. Hes been bad. But look at bullpens around baseball. They all stink. I’d rather take my chances correcting Krazy Karl than taking 90% of the other options around.
Patience. Everyone here tried to run Vizcaino out of town and look what happend.
Kyle has had 26 strike outs in 40 this year and 77 so in 66 innings last year.
So something is clearly wrong. Why are his strike outs down so much?
If I knew I’d be making millions as a pitching coach.
Why was Vizcaino so bad so early? I wish I knew.
And I pray Guidry or whoever can fix him quick because its obviously not arm problems since his velocity is where it always is.
I don’t mind trading Farnsworth but they really need a legit 8th inning guy before that.
A Lidge. A Gagne. Someone who can make that back end scary.
My Top Ten order of preference for the 5th starter next time through:
1) Skip the #5 spot
Marge from the Simpsons
2) Karstens
3) DeSalvo
4) Ed Whitson
5) Steve Trout
6) My Neighbor Sal
7) My Mom
9) My yellow lab Jeter
10) Igawa
No Joba. The trip from A ball to starting in The Show for the Yankees in less than a year is a bit much, IMHO. Bullpen maybe… not starting.
Farnsworth isn’t throwing 98 this year.
i think that’s the problem.
I left out Hughes intentionally. Let him throw an another rehab in AAA. Get the pitch count up. Don’t derail his rehab plan just because Torre doesn’t want to skip the #5 slot this one time.
This isn’t about babying him. It’s about him coming back from two injuries. We have to be absolutely certain he’s 100% healthy. At this point, he’s become a critical piece of the puzzle if we’re really going to make a run for the roses this year.
take the pampers off the kids and let them pitch.
the yankees will skip igawa and go with hughes. no worries. everything else is just postering. igawa is done for the year.
hopefully he can come back next year in a long man, 6th starter role.
anybody but igawa . he’s terrible . i hate him . in the old days the guy who hired a bum like igawa would be beaten with a hose . joba , hughes , karstens , desalvo , my dead granny are all better options than igawa . who wears sunglasses when they pitch . i mean c’mon .
I heard Gagne does not want to be a set-up guy, wants to close, so he probably is not on the Yankees’ radar. Of course, you never know. Lidge, I don’t think Yankees Stadium is the change of scenery he needs.
Igawa is an inexcusable signing, did they even scout him, was this just a panice move after the sox signed matsuka, either way i like cashman
but 50mm on this guy makes me think he should be fired and replaced by someone who will continue to build the farm system and add quality veterans through free agency – yes gene michael is 69 but why not him or someone that he recommends
skip Igawa. pitch Hughes 8/4.
trade Proctor for Wigginton. trade Farnsworth for a bag of balls, same from Mike Myers.
look at what SD got for Linebrink, and offer a fair deal along those lines to get Marte from Pitts or Qualls from Houston. neither of which have the as much value Linebrink did, and Milwaukee got him for 3 minor leaguers.
call up Joba to pitch from the pen. throw Karstens into long relief.
Any chance Roger Clemens can give Igawa a ride to the airport on his next trip home? Did this guy actually have any talent in Japan? At least Irabu was a fat toad, what does this guy have going for him?
“jp
July 27th, 2007 at 9:06 am
take the pampers off the kids and let them pitch.”
wow. mike francesa posts here as ‘jp’
who knew?
Pete,
Can you or anyone else tell me why Damaso Marte (Left handed relief pitcher from the Pirates) has not come up in any trade talks. He is having a ridiculous year (41 G, 30.1 IP, 18 H, 5 ER, 34 K, 12 BB -1.48 ERA) and would be perfect in the Yankees pen. He is what Mike Stanton was in his prime. He is 32 and I am sure, for a couple B prospects, the Pirates would be willing to part with him. Is there some reason I have heard nothing about teams interested in him?
I hate watching IGawa as much as anyone… but I think he’ll be an asset in the future.
He has a high strikeout rate (maybe because he doesnt know where the ball is going have the time…throws up in the zone…players see beachballs and miss every once in a while) — but he has potential to be a decent back of the rotation pitcher.
Consider this year a trial…in the offseason he should spend less time running, and more time studying major league hitters. He won’t be Dice-K.. but i think he’ll improve (not that this will be hard..)
Yeah, I understand that running was his routine from Japan, but it’s obviously not helping him here, at least it’s not helping his pitching. Who knows what it does for his psyche, but you’d have to think whatever benefit he derives from running has got to be negated by what he hasn’t done on the mound, at least psychologically speaking.
All things being equal, meaning no injuries at the start of the season, Igawa would have started the season in the minors and been able to work in relative peace and only been promoted when he had truly “fixed” his approach. Unfortunately, he’s been thrown into the lions’ den because there was no real alternative. You can chastise Cashman all you want to for spending so much money on basically a minor league prospect, but what’s done is done. Now, you’ve got to get him to the point where he can either help in the rotation at some future point (not this season), or become attractive enough to be traded elsewhere.
Marte was a Yankee prospect back in the day I believe — but I agree, I think he’d be perfect for the Yankees to acquire for some low-level prospects.
I like Myers and Villone and those guys… but Marte is more of a shut down guy. Villone and Henn are pretty nice guys to have though as lefty long-relief/spot starters.
And Henn, if he realizes he throws 95mph, can be even better.
“Igawa is an inexcusable signing, did they even scout him, was this just a panice move after the sox signed matsuka, either way i like cashman”
apparently they scouted him for 3 years.
it’s a little perplexing.
Watching Igawa pitch is like watching someone walk through knee-deep mud.
His body language shows someone who has no self-confidence. Pitchers need to have control of their emotions, and a sense of confidence, almost an arrogance about them. Igawa has neither.
His curveball last night was consistently hanging over the middle of the plate. You might as well put a sign around his neck saying kick-me!
At some point (as many here have already said) enough is enough. He might work out as a reliever but right now I think it’s obvious this guy isn’t ready as a starter in MLB.
I don’t care who they use for a 5th starter, but right now, for me it’s ABI,
Anyone But Igawa!
YanksRule57 –
You’re so right about his body language showing his lack of confidence. He seems okay as long as no one is on base. The second someone gets a hit, he slumps. You can actually see him slump. And then he panicks and rushes and he’s basically done at that point. Obviously putting the guy “back on the horse” is not working.
Why would the pitchers need an extra day off. The All Star Break was 3 weeks ago and everyone had extra time off then. So now 3 starts later they need another extra day off! If the Yanks miss the playoffs by one game they will have all winter off. What is the deal with babying pitchers anyway, they throw six innings and then 5 days off.
doesn’t igawa’s spot technically come up wednesday? because of the off day, if you stayed in rotation mussina would pitch tuesday, and he would already be on an extra days’ rest.
i say mussina tuesday on an extra days’ rest tuesday, pettitte, clemens, wang on regular rest wednesday, thursday, friday, then hughes after another minor league start getting his pitch count up to around 100 on saturday, so he isn’t rushed in any way on wednesday. i agree with neyankee, this isn’t a time where we need to be thinking about giving the pitchers an extra days’ rest, especially if it means another start from iggy. if hughes was already in there, fine. but he isn’t, so no more iggy please.
Igawa should be the number one starter just to give other teams a fighting chance against the $200 million payroll.
3 years of scouting on igawa – ouch
even worse
I wonder when they will make the move sendning down Igawa? When are the 10 days up for Edwar to eligible to be brought back without a DL move? Wonder if they are waiting for that or if they are finagling the 40 man roster to make room for Joba the Hut. Plus there is the dumping of Farnsworth and possibly Proctor.
i can’t criticize the running. i mean, i guess it doesn’t seem to be working, but i honestly don’t think it can hurt. i just think the guy has a tough time with pressure and fear of failure, probably one of the tougher things for a scout to pick up on.
“look at what SD got for Linebrink, and offer a fair deal along those lines to get Marte from Pitts or Qualls from Houston. neither of which have the as much value Linebrink did, and Milwaukee got him for 3 minor leaguers.”
what does “3 minor leaguers” mean? all minor leaguers are not the same.
i think SD got quite a bit for Linebrink, who is a little overrated. Linebrink has given up 9 HRs in 45 innings, pitching in Petco.
but there is a ton of demand for relievers, so Milwaukee had to overpay.
if the yankees had given up an equivalent package for Linebrink, i would guess most here would not be happy.
A move will have to be made on the 40 man in order to bring Phil back. Any idea what it will be. I”m thinking Kevin Reece?
Above all, when the Yankees send Igawa down they have to tell him not to forget those damned sunglasses. He must wear the things to bed at night. A pitching mound is not the place to try to look cool.
for Linebrink, i’d not have been happy either. he’s been awful this year. but those prospects are nothing to write home about either. if i remember correctly, basically the equivalent of a lefty arm for the pen, a 4/5th starter, and a prospect, but no stand outs.
If they could move Proctor and Farnsworth, and get back a Qualls for a couple of lower level arms, I’d make that move. Qualls in under control i believe for at least another season or two, so it helps you down the stretch and for next year’s bullpen, too.
Can I say I hate Igawa?
The worst part about him, besides being terrible, is hes boring.
Every count is 3-2. And thats after he gets ahead 0-2!
I think its time they took off the training wheels and let Joba come up and pitch in the pen.
Kinda worked for the Cards last year with Wainwright, right?
Linebrink has been horrendous all year. In a pitchers park no less.
What does it say about him when SD moves him for 3 minor leaguers when they are challenging for 1st place and there strength is their pitching and pen?
Linebrink is absolutely crap this season, even in the easiest park to pitch in baseball. The Brewers really made a mistake trading for him.
The Yankees should be doing everything it takes to get Lidge in here. Short of trading Hughes/Chamberlain.
That is a difference maker.
Barnsy,
Wainwright was a relief pitcher all season for the Cards in 2006. Before that he was a mediocre minor league starter. Not sure what he has to do with The Hutt.
Cashman has to do something before the deadline.
He needs another bat on the bench.
He needs another quality arm in the pen.
Wainwright was one of the better pitching prospects in baseball. They broke him in as a relief pitcher because they needed an arm there. And lo and behold what happens? He dominates in route to a series title. Now hes back to being a starter.
If Joba has better stuff and is a much better prospect than Wainwright wouldn’t it make sense to break him in the same way? To get even better results??
Breaking pitchers in via the pen is a tried and true formula.
The Yankees need their version of Papelbon and K-Rod.
That’s Joba.
You can’t be scared of injuries. He’d be just as likely to get hurt starting in Triple A than pitching in relief for the big club.
I watched this guy Lincecum pitch last night. He’s the same age as Joba and came out the same year.
He seems to be handling it pretty well.
We have to stop babying these guys.
We need to trade either Damon or Giambi. I don’t think they can be on the same team because they are only good for the DH spot, even though Damon can be a 4th outfielder. Damon did say he would accept a trade if he was given a chance to play everyday. Brett Gardener can be our 4th outfielder.
Cash should make the trade Farns whoever wants him. I don’t care if it’s the Tigers, Rockies, or Devil Rays. Just get rid of Farnsdearth.
Hopefully, we can get a reliever like Damaso Marte, Ryan Franklin, or Zack Grienke.
Brett Gardner isn’t major league ready and he’s not in the same class as a Damon.
We’re trying to win a title here. You don’t go weakening yourself to do it.
If Damon wants a trade you can do it in December. But right now hes valuable as a 4th OF and leadoff man.
How can anyone witha brain think that the Indians will win the WC?
Their bullpen is terrible.
After Sabathia and Carmona their starting pitching is awful. Westbrook and Lee are batting practice.
And any team where Casey Blake hits 3rd doesn’t scare me.
Proctor is more valuable than Linnebrink and Farnsworth is probably just as valuable, if we eat his salary. Linnebrink brought back tons of value for SD, for how bad he is, so I don’t see how we couldn’t find a decent deal for Farnsworth or a good deal for Proctor. It indicates a seller’s market for relievers, which everyone assumed would be the case.
Marte’s name has come up, it would take more than some throw away prospects to get him, though.
I was so happy last night when Igawa left the game, I figured I would never see him pitch again for the Yankees. They better not be considering him next week, we can’t afford to simply give games away.
The future is now.That means Hughes, Chamberlain,Kennedy in the rotation,Rasner and Karstens in the pen.It also would help if we could pawn off Mussina on Phila. for Rowand or Bourne,not so farfetched if we throw in Rameriz or Clippard etc.Horne, and Marquez and especially Brett Smith may buy you a decent proven player.Henn is not the answer,Villone is not the answer,Farnsworth is not the answer.Thinking long term,even if it hurts us now is the way to go.Speaking about going,Iggy,we hardly knew ye.Could we trade him to Seattle?
“How can anyone witha brain think that the Indians will win the WC?”
but there they are, 1.5 behind detroit. that’s a race that will go to the end. i still stand by my preseason prediction and cleveland will win the central.
I think Joe will do whatever it takes to not see Igawa pitch again this year.
You can’t even put him in the pen because he walks too many guys.
Hughes can’t come back fast enough. He might be the best deadline addition in the game.
A lot of teams lead in July. That doesn’t mean it holds up into September.
Cleveland is terrible. Just like Seattle is. I’d be shocked if either won 90 games.
If Carmona or Sabathia hit a rough patch, watch out.
There is no chance in heck that the Tigers lose that division.
They have the best starting pitching in the game and the second best lineup.
Cleveland cannot match up.
I can understand the Yankees signing Igawa; I can’t fathom why they spent that much money on him. Anyone who ever saw him pitch in Japan knows he had no control — Wild Thing, but at 90 instead of 99.
Fukudome is a player, and Cashman should be after him. Not an all-star, but a solid outfielder who should be able to put up decent numbers.
But the real Japan import to watch will be Yu Dalvish, the Iranian-Japanese pitcher who’s going to make Dice-K look like a minor leaguer. Brian, get started on this right now. We’re talking Cy Young potential given a couple of years with some good coaching.
Mikey–I didn’t compare Brett Gardener to Damon. I know what kind of player Damon is or was or can be. I’m saying that you can’t have both Giambi and Damon on the same team, unless u like Giambi at 1st and Damon DHing or Damon in the outfield and Giambi DHing. That weakens our defense in either scenario.
Anyway, I suspect Damon will be in center and Giambi DHing. That isn’t something I’m looking forward to see.
everyone needs to go look up Johan Santana’s usage as a reliever.
when he was in the bullpen, he was usually used for several innings at a time, with several days of rest in between. he was essentially their long reliever. this gave him najor league experience without the workload of a set-up man. towards the end of the 2000 and 2001 seasons he started a few games to stretch him out.
this is absolutely NOT the same as using Joba as your set-up guy, warming up essentially every night, sometimes sitting down, sometimes coming in for a batter or 2.
so please, can we stop using Johan Santana as an argument for sticking Joba in the pen?
hmmm–You forgot that Johan’s mananger wasn’t Torre…
hmmm
Amen to that!
I think Igawa, next season, could be the Yanks’ Okajima. A funky lefty who can strike guys out from the ‘pen.
But he should never start again.
It could be worse.
We could have Jim Bowden as GM.
Joba is a 21 yr old pitcher. He can’t pitch as a set up man because why? Getting up daily? He’s 21! Hes not a 45 yr old Clemens.
Did that effect Papelbon? He looks pretty solid in the pen.
Your arguments are duly noted but the pampers are coming off him whether you like it or not.
Its not the money with Igawa. Its the fact that they choose him over Lilly, Meche and Suppan.
Worst decision of the year for them.
Okajima throws strikes and doesn’t walk anyone.
A huge difference between him and Igawa.
Besides the terrible looking shades.
“Joba is a 21 yr old pitcher. He can’t pitch as a set up man because why? Getting up daily? He’s 21! Hes not a 45 yr old Clemens.”
well, maybe b/c he is a future starter and they want him to work on perfecting his change-up. spending the rest of the season as a fastball/slider reliever may hinder that development.
“Did that effect Papelbon? He looks pretty solid in the pen.”
that is a non-sequitor b/c Papelbon is staying as a reliever. Joba’s future is as a starter.
and if i recall, Papelbon missed the last month of the 2006 season with a strained shoulder, right?
and the Sox wanted to make him a starter, but his shoulder prevented that, right?
Mikey–Papelbon did have arm troubles. That’s why he was originally in the rotation in the spring training. Francona had to speak to the doctors about him going back to being a closer before it was official. It isn’t about babying them. It’s about keeping his career on a path that’s upward and not downward. Look at Prior and Wood.
Boston plans on using Papelbon as a starter in the future. They did this spring til they realized they didn’t have a closer.
I don’t see the problem with a guy starting his career in the pen.
Like someone said Adam Wainwright did fairly well in the pen last year before he became a full time starter.
Stop babying these kids. They can’t stay in the minors forever.
This is all you need to know about Kei Igawa (following excerpted from a story by George King the chief Yankees beat writer in today’s New York Post):
“Four months into a $46 million experiment that has turned into a catastrophic failure, Igawa last night had the audacity to blame his miserable pitching on not knowing major league hitters.
“I need to learn more about the batters and get to know them better,� Igawa said after the Royals punished the lefty on the way to a 7-0 victory in front of a sold-out Kauffman Stadium crowd of 37,036. “Part of it has not being able to learn the batters quick enough.�
So what has Igawa been doing since arriving in America? Does he know every at-bat of every big league hitter is on video? Is he paying attention in the scouting meetings before each series? Of all the excuses a pitcher can give for failure, Igawa’s is the feeblest.”
————————————————————
Nothing, yes, and yes to your three questions, George. Igawa is a lazy p.o.s. & how telling is it that his former manager in Japan SLAPPED him (source: Mike Pagliarulo at his excellent myspace.com/baselinereport he runs with another guy Adam who’s last name escapes me -link to it on Peter’s blog).
Any way the Yanks can trade Igawa back to Japan like Florida traded Kevin Millar to Japan?
“Your arguments are duly noted but the pampers are coming off him whether you like it or not.”
also, how is promoting a 21 year old from A to AA to AAA in one season wearing “pampers”?
right now, he should be just graduating college.
I don’t get all of the “time to take the diapers / training wheels off Chamberlain” talk. The man started the year in A ball. He is now in AAA! How is that babying him?
“Stop babying these kids. They can’t stay in the minors forever.”
this is his *first* season in the minors.
Honestly — In my gut, I would rather have Igawa than Suppan or Meche…
Meche has never been healthy for a long stretch in his life…if the Yankees signed him, there would have been Pavano-esque comparisons the second he got hurt. Cashman would have been crucified by everyone in the fanbase, media, etc.
Suppan is average at best… I just can’t like paying a guy $40 million for an average career. Although he was solid last year.
Igawa at least has some potential and throws from the left side making a transition to relief role a little more valuable.
Lilly — I’m with you… I like his stuff and his consistency. I feel that he’s worth 10mill for that
B.t.w. K.C. released Scott Elarton after the Yanks drubbed him Tuesday night. Igawa su cks so badly that if Hughes or Karstens couldn’t start 8/4, I’d rather have Elarton in place of Igawa (or DeSalvo), even if just (signed) for one start.
joe wrote:
“my choices:
1) hughes
2) skip and then hughes
3) karstens
4) anyone else but igawa”
100 percent agree.
I guess we agree to disagree on Joba.
As far as Iggy goes, I would make him a reliever or trade him to the Cardinals for Rick Ankiel or John Rodriguez or Ryan Franklin. I think Iggy would be a good reliever, IMO, IF he can repeat his mechanics with runners on.
Speaking of Japanese hitters, can we please get rid of the notion that Kaz Matsui has rebounded in Colorado? He had a good fluke 30 games there at the end of last season but he’s basically the same hitter today as he was with the Mets in his debut season.
Some Japanese hitters have come and thrived (Hideki, Ichiro) and others have struggled (Shinjo, Kaz). I don’t think there’s any more rhyme or reason to it than the pitchers.
I’m no Igawa fan but, really, if the Yank hitters had come up with a few key early hits to make it a game, we might not be so harsh on Igawa. Even Clemens won’t look too good giving up 4 runs with no run support.
I’m a little peeved that Torre chose to gamble with Igawa when everybody knew that a victory was either going to bring the Yanks a bit closer to Cleveland or a bit closer to Boston. While Molina did a nice job offensively and defensively, I would have kept Posada in the lineup, after all, he has gotten one key hit after another all season.
Igawa has no business in mlb . period . the Igawa experiment was tried , it failed . move on to hughes .
it’s moves like pavano and igawa that make me think that cashman needs to be in charge of the farm system and not the general manger .
RB in NYC–You forgot about Kenji Jojima.
20, yeah torre should play Posada every game.. He should not get any time off the rest of the season!!!!!!!!!!
Moron the guy needs to rest on occasion, wake up…
Igawa just sucks and should be in the minors……..
The Yanks got shut out last night. A zillion posters come and say Igawa sucks. One guy points out that some blame might belong to the offense. He is immediately called a moron.
….Strange, no?
do you guys realize papelbon was 24 when he came up and joba is *21*?
LOL @ Bronx.
What time does the suspended game begin?
Nr1220, I understand your point that the Yankees needed more runs, but playing Posada every day is not a solution. The veteran catcher has been playing too much, given his age and knee injury. A regular rest is needed. The next question is when Torre should rest Posada. Should it be when the Ace starters are pitching, or when the fifth or shaky starters are pitching? I believe that it’s better to rest Posada and let it go when a weak pitcher is on the mound; whenever the game is close Posada can pinch hit in a later innings. At the same time, whenever the better picthers are on the mound, it is good to line up all the best hitters (including Posada) so as to secure a win.
I just observed that Red Sox Nation sponsors Igawa’s baseball-reference.com page. Yikes.
I defended the Igawa signing and felt confident he would turn it around by the AS Break, but Igawa has proved me wrong. He doesn’t seem any better than he was before he got sent down.
I still think he’s fixable, but by fixable I mean usable as a fifth starter.
If he improves even slightly, we can trade him. I still cling to that hope.
“Wainwright was one of the better pitching prospects in baseball. They broke him in as a relief pitcher because they needed an arm there. And lo and behold what happens? He dominates in route to a series title. Now hes back to being a starter.
If Joba has better stuff and is a much better prospect than Wainwright wouldn’t it make sense to break him in the same way? To get even better results??
Breaking pitchers in via the pen is a tried and true formula.”
I don’t have any problem with breaking Joba in via the pen. It worked well for Earl Weaver, after all. However, I have major concerns about how Joe Torre would use him. He can’t use him sporadically like he did Edwar Ramirez and he can’t abuse him like he does with his favorite setup guys every year. Joe’s proven inability to manage all but the most foolproof bullpens has to scare you.
By the way, Adam Wainwright was not one of the top pitching prospects in baseball. He was not listed in Baseball America’s 2006 Top 100 or Baseball Prospectus’ 2006 Top 50. He was also not listed in either’s 2005 lists. In reality, he was a former first round pick that had mediocre numbers at just about every minor league level.
Morerun, Jorge injured his knee? When did this happen?
The Yankees and Devil Rays are still discussing a Scott Proctor-for-Ty Wigginton deal.
If it happens, Tampa Bay could convert Proctor into a starter. “The Devil Rays really want him,” a source told the New York Post. “The problem is that other teams want him, too.”
ROTOWORLD
“RB in NYC—You forgot about Kenji Jojima.”
It was a deliberate omission. Japanese batters have pretty much run the gammut of quality. Ichiro is on one end while someone like Norihiro Nakamura is on the other. But my larger point stands, there’s no particular merit to the idea that Japanese hitters translate better to the Majors.
We should get more than Wiggy for Scottie. That would be a horrible deal for the Yankees.
“The Yanks got shut out last night. A zillion posters come and say Igawa sucks. One guy points out that some blame might belong to the offense. He is immediately called a moron.
….Strange, no?”
Our offense is going to have off games once in a while…you can’t expect them to produce every game. Why would someone complain about the offense? It has been great recently, and consistent, and that’s all you can ask for. So yes, “some blame” goes to the offense last night, but that doesn’t excuse Igawa by any means…unlike the offense, this game was not an aberration for him, but part of a pattern. He is not an MLB quality starting pitcher, end of story. He cannot start again for the Yanks this season, or, in my opinion, ever again.
I understand what you’re saying, RB in NYC.
MoreRun:
I’m not blaming the loss on the fact that Posada wan’t in the lineup because he needed a day off. I know he needs rest, but you know, millions of people go to work every day, work outside in the sun, etc. and they don’t get paid millions of dollars to do it. I find it hard to believe that a 35-year old (I’m 64) needs to take a day off when all you need to do is get your stuff together for 3 hours per day. Tell a construction worker that you’ll pay him a million bucks per year but he will have to work 7 days per week, 3 hours per day, and not have to work in the winter. I think you know the answer. I’m sorry, I’m not too sympathetic of professional athletes who need “rest”.
The bottomline, I almost got the feeling that the team (Torre) was saying: “We got the first three, time to drop back, take a break and rest a few boys. If we win fine, if not, “you can’t win them all”. I don’t like that line of thinking in sports.
Hopefully the Yanks will get another streak going, starting today.
Anybody remember Christian Parker? I think I remember he pitched opening day in ‘01, was injured and vanished. Whatever happened to him?
“I find it hard to believe that a 35-year old (I’m 64) needs to take a day off when all you need to do is get your stuff together for 3 hours per day. Tell a construction worker that you’ll pay him a million bucks per year but he will have to work 7 days per week, 3 hours per day, and not have to work in the winter. I think you know the answer. I’m sorry, I’m not too sympathetic of professional athletes who need “restâ€?. ”
major league catchers need a day off once a week.
this is fact and would not change whether Posada made $10K a year or $10M a year.
without a day off, he will not be able to perform at the high level we expect.
the rest of your point is a red herring.
I do not understand the logic behind Proctor for Wigginton.
While irrelevant, imagine how Proctor would feel if this trade went through. “Thanks for taking tremendous abuse for the Yankees. We will now send you to a terrible team.”
“Anybody remember Christian Parker? I think I remember he pitched opening day in ‘01, was injured and vanished. Whatever happened to him?”
knocked around in the minors. was in the rockies system and tested positive for steroids.
Quinn,
The Rocket started Opening Day 2001: http://retrosheet.org/boxesetc.....YA2001.htm
Parker made his debut, and only MLB start, 4 days later: http://retrosheet.org/boxesetc.....YA2001.htm
He through 204 innings in the minors in 2000 and ended up with an injured shoulder. He was mediocre before the injury and worse after. Looks like he he hasn’t been in baseball since 2005.
http://thebaseballcube.com/pla.....rker.shtml
If we can find a dominating late inning reliever in our own system I think it makes more than enough sense.
Face facts. Joba will get his shot at the 8th inning.
I wouldn’t mind finding another Rivera. He was pretty good in ‘96 I think as a set up man out of the system.
The guy going on about Posada’s day off obviously doesn’t understand what it takes being a catcher at the major league level.
The first dumb statement of the day. Congrats!
Pitching is pitching. Its about throwing strikes. I’d much rather see Chamberlain out there in the late innings than anyone else on the roster. If the kid is truly as good as they say it should be a home run.
I don’t see how pitching stunts his growth. From what I’ve read he’s got the maturity to handle it and obviously has the stuff.
Everyone better get used to it. Because it’s a coming. And you know we’re all going to be excited for it.
Parker has been out of baseball for a couple of years now.
Deep to Left,
Great top ten list! LMAO!
“I find it hard to believe that a 35-year old (I’m 64) needs to take a day off when all you need to do is get your stuff together for 3 hours per day. Tell a construction worker that you’ll pay him a million bucks per year but he will have to work 7 days per week, 3 hours per day, and not have to work in the winter. I think you know the answer.”
Mr1220:
I find your exmaple strange. If a construction work “could” do it and earn a million bucks per year, they would have already switched their jobs and all played baseball games. If money was that easy you would have seen most people play professional baseball games. So why not? The fact is that not everyone can do it.
Probably you don’t know much about sports, especially professional sports. It does not only take three hours for a player to play a three-hour game. There are training programs behind the scene, defensive and batting routine before the game, meetings, and so on. The regular working hour is far more than 3 hours. Second, professional baseball games require players to perform at a very high level, if not to their maxima. There are historical data and scientific analysis regarding how much and how often a catcher needs rest and the bad consequences of overworking on performances.
What can be done? Obviously, it’s nice to see the Yanks playing at a higher level, seeing the suckitude they enjoyed the first 2 months of the season. Lotta bad luck, bad managing, injuries, things not going their way. Playing, what, 7 games behind the Pythagorean is an indicator of that. Not to be a downer, but winning 5 out of 6 against KC and TB is not exactly special. Once the Yankees start beating teams over .500, the celebrations or rumors of a comeback can start. In light of the trading deadline, what can make this team better?
Do the Yanks hold still and count on most of their players performing near their career levels? If everybody did what they were supposed to do, this team would contend. However, that can be said about most high payroll teams. Can Mussina be counted on to be his old, 15+ wins, 3.5 era self? Unlikely. Will Petitte stay strong into the stretch? He’s been giving up alot of hits lately. Wang has been consistent, and is the rock of that rotation. The Rocket has pitched well, but has been plagued with low run support. None of us expected to put up his Houston numbers. Who knows how long his groin will hold out. No need to talk about Igawa, or the 48 million he has yet to earn. Who knows how Hugues will do. We all know hes immensely talented, but we can’t expect him to be CY Young out of the gate. The pitching is worrisome. To contend in the playoffs, the Yankees will need better than this. They also rank last in the AL in strikeouts, which is also quite disturbing.
Hitting has been a boon this year. Without A-Rod or Posada, who knows where this team will be. I expect regression in A-Rod and Posada down the stretch, but a resurgence from Matsui, Cano, and Abreau should offset that. The Yankees don’t need bats, they need arms. A bench bat would be nice, but I don’t think that its a priority.
So, what kind of trade can the Yankees make? We can’t assume that teams are exactly lining up at the door to take on contracts like Damon or Giambi. 15 million is alot for a 4th outfielder, in my opinion. Unfortunately, any kind of trade the Yankees would want would require prospects, like Chamberlain or Hughes. Fat chance on that. In light of this, I don’t think anybody can expect some earth shattering marquee name trade. The Yankees will have to bite the bullet this year if they want to contend in the future.
This is idiotic. Every game counts, you put your best 5 starters out there. Skip the 5th starters spot on the day off. If there were no day off, would all the starters be whining about being tired. Mussina gets an extra day of rest when he can get out of the 6th inning.
“Not to be a downer, but winning 5 out of 6 against KC and TB is not exactly special. Once the Yankees start beating teams over .500, the celebrations or rumors of a comeback can start. In light of the trading deadline, what can make this team better? ”
they won 8 of 11 from LAA, Minnesota, and Toronto who are all over .500.
“The guy going on about Posada’s day off obviously doesn’t understand what it takes being a catcher at the major league level.
The first dumb statement of the day. Congrats!”
I say your comments are the dumbest of the day. So you disagree with his point of view and that makes what he says dumb? Show some maturity man!
Karsten needs to be traded……what a bum