Proctor out, but Gagne not in
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- July
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The Yankees have traded RHP Scott Proctor to the Dodgers for IF Wilson Betemit.
But unless something changes in the next few hours, they won’t be getting Eric Gagne. Brian Cashman is holding on to Alan Horne and the rest of his upper-level prospects. Boston is reportedly willing to trade OF David Murphy and LHP Kason Gabbard.
The Cubs also are involved. If financial matters can be worked out, Gagne could end up in Boston or Chicago.
It also sounds like Edwar Ramirez could be on the way back at the expense of Brian Bruney. If not today, then soon.
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on Tuesday, July 31st, 2007 at 12:39 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
Cash, at the very least, needs to block the Sox from getting Gagne.
yay edwar. good luck proctor, I’m sure the Yankees with fedex your arm to LA in a day or two.
Peter, what about farnsy ???
I may be the first one to say this here… but did we just deplete our bullpen, which was obviously our weakest link to begin with?
(scratches head)
I’m not sure I get this one. I’m sure someone will explain it to me.
Joba, Edwar, and Co. better make big splashes.
Let the Red Sox give that stuff up. They are hipocrites. They are trading away their future for a rental. Have fun with a first round exit courtesy of the Detroit Tigers, Red Sox
Thanks Pete. Any word, or better yet, thoughts on Farnsworth as the deadline approaches?
Hey pete, think jobas performance last night prompted this trade?
i really like this deal. betemit is far better than cairo and can play all four infield spots. he did hit .300 in a full season and protctor just plain lost it for us. now if cash could just swing a deal to get rid of farnsworthless, we’d be in great shape.
At this point the Yankees arent even chasing the Sox! We are after the wildcard.
Good luck, Sparky. Please take Kyle with you.
I know that Farnsworth will probably be as easy to trade now as in 3 weeks (anyone would be crazy to claim him off waivers)…but doesn’t his recent action seem to merit him being shipped out right away? The Yankees have NEVER seemed to keep anyone around who had that type of attitude (see Chad Curtis)…seems strange to start now…
I will say this, if the Red Sox get Gagne, it is a bit of overkill. They already have strong 8th and 9th inning guys, both of which could be offended by being asked to move up an inning. They will regret giving away real prospects for the two month Gagne rental.
Sammy…Proctor stinks.. so do kyle, myers, bruney, and VIllone.. the ygot rid of junk.
the only thing I am upset about is they need to get rid of more junk.. ie Myers and Kyle(cancer and junk)…
Do not worry about what Boston does… Also if Cash does not trade any of the young guns he is truly in control and the bad old days of over priced over hyped nonsense is over and the Yanks are back to being a team of pitching, and a versatile offense……….That formula worked pretty good in the late 90’s……
I don’t mind the deal… if Betemit proves valuable to us.
will he start at 1st, now, in place of Andy? Or will he just serve as The Next Cairo? Guesses?
Next Cairo and insurance……
they actually have improved there putrid bench; molina and betemit improve the bench….
Does holding onto top level prospects remind you of anything?? Stick did the same thing in the 90’s and look where that got us. We have been chasing free agent pitchers for years now and if we have them in house happy to do that and it then allows us to spend big money on let’s say oh ah Alex.
Thinking the same thing, Sammy.
If they aren’t going to get a proven replacement in the bullpen, I’m not happy with this – especially if Farnsworthless stays.
Betemit is a switch hitter, so he could start against righties some time over Andy. Really though it’s more about depth especially if we have a hole at 3rd next year.
Proctor is an average reliever who gets shelled by the Red Sox just about every time he faces them. His fastball is very straight and he’s inconsistent. Hardly a huge blow to our pen.
“good luck proctor, I’m sure the Yankees with fedex your arm to LA in a day or two.”
Sunny615, the Yanks wont fedex his arm, beacuse it was blown off 2 months ago by Joe!
I think this really helps to solidify the bench. Our bench is brutal. There is no way around it. Now, it is a bit better as Betemit is a power threat off the bench. He doesnt replace Cairo but will help the bench.
Stuart – understood that Proctor’s worth to the team had diminished. But he’s been valuable to us in the past, and we didn’t swap reliever for reliever. To me, I just don’t know… hopefully, Cash has something else up his sleeve… which is why we went this way initially.
I just don’t know if I like the deal, if only because we have one less arm – junk or not, as of late – than we did yesterday.
Betemit’s natural position is third. Take that for what you will.
Just an opinion on Gagne to the Sox: Gagne, if he’s healthy, which is a BIG if, comes pretty cheap. Maybe they get him, sign him long-term (two years is pretty long-term for Gagne), and then plug Papelbon into the rotation.
Hey Pete – you’ve been quoted on rotoworld.com. Nice work!
“The Cubs reportedly still have a shot at acquiring Eric Gagne, who could be used as a closer over Ryan Dempster.
The Journal News’ Peter Abraham believes the Red Sox and the Cubs are the favorites, with the Red Sox offering David Murphy and Kason Gabbard. If Boston moves Gabbard, it means Jon Lester would get to stick around as the team’s fifth starter”
So is Cairo gone? And when is Kyle gone?
Good luck to Scottie.
i have this terrible feeling i’ll have to see farnsworth pitch again for the Yankees.
Peter, you got another credit in Rotoworld. You are making quite a name for yourself, congratulations.
I would have much preferred seeing Farnsworth gone than Proctor – but I can’t say I blame the Dodgers for not wanting Farnworth either.
I only like this deal if we go out and get another reliever.
I guess we are getting what we wanted. Edwar Ramirez and Joba. I guess we are putting all our apples in that basket, barring anything unforseen
Sox mortgaging the future? hahaha Murphy and Gabbard the future? HAHAHAHAHA. No way the Rangers do that deal.
Sorry to say this as many people will kill me for it, but it looks like Shelley Duncan could be the odd man out.
Gayle, brings up a good point. I would bet Cash talked to Michels about the kids: which ones could go, which ones are untouchable.
Does anyone in the Yankee organization or otherwise really consider a .231 hitter as a potential 3rd base replacement for the league MVP next year?
Gayle – I would agree with you. I think it’s wise for Cash to hold on to the top-level prospects. I just don’t know that all four – even if we can still count Hughes as one, now that he’s made it into the bigs – will pan out to be our #1-#4 starters coming forth. If that happens, I think that’s more unusual than usual for any given club.
I think we go get a rental for the season. We’re, what, four behind Cleveland? Eight behind Boston? We get Gagne, and make a run… we get momentum. August and September is for momentum, and we need it now more than ever.
but I don’t make the decisions. I just read Peter telling me what they do.
Gabbard and Murphy are scrub players. Texas Gm should be fired If This trade happens. The Redsox are trying to overhyped this mediocre pitchers like Gabbard and Murphy. Remember Casey Fossum and Brandon Lyon for Curt Schilling? What a Joke ?
Its an insurance policy, they habe those ya know
Question:
Since the original trade rumored was Proctor for Wigginton, how does Wigginton compare with Betemit?
We also have Chris Britton who had a sub-3 ERA at AAA until he did got an ab strain. This is a guy who had an ERA in the mid 3s last year in the AL east — after coming pretty much right out of A ball. And it was only that high because he blew up two or three times over the course of about 3/4 of a season in the bigs (4 ER in 1/3 of an inning kind of stuff). I’m a big fan of big Chris and hope he gets his shot once his strain is cleared up.
Why would they get rid of Cairo? They’d just send Basak down wouldn’t they?
I think Wilson replaces Basak. I think there is room for two backup infielders in Betemit and Cairo. So let’s see that leaves 6 IF’ers, 4 OF’ers, 1 DH, 2 C’s, 5 SP’s and 7 relievers. Those are Mo, Viz, Joba, Edwar, Myers, Villone and either Henn or Gagne.
Gabbard? Their spot starter who’s 4-0 this year? HOHO, that’s great. They must really want to block him from the Yankees, cuz they’re already set in the 8th & 9th. Oka/Gagne/Papel is formidable, but giving up a young slightly established SP for a rental? And pursuing Dye when you have Drew’s immovable contract? I like those moves. LOL.
Stay the course, Cash. Play for now, and hold for the future.
>> I only like this deal if we go out and get another reliever. >>
We did – he’s in Triple A and he pitched on Sunday, striking out the side.
Re: Boston
Papelbon’s velocity has been off again and the fans and organization are terrified there is something wrong with him. I have a feeling they are telling Gagne he’s gonna co-close if they get him. They may put Papelbon on the 1-2 times a week plan or give him some time off and see if they can have him ready for the playoffs.
I don’t think they expect to have Papelbon, Gagne and Okajima ending games every night after the 6th. We all know Gagne is a major injury risk and if Papelbon is showing he might falter like last season due to his injury history, I think he and Papelbon will probably be “co-closers”. You can’t use Gagne and Papelbon every day, so this fantasy of them turning the game into a 6 inning game every night is just that, a fantasy. Okajima has also pitched more innings already this season than he ever has in Japan. It may mean nothing or it may mean he’s about to hit a wall. Just some food for thought.
At least Theo is being proactive.
I’m not sure I’m sold that weakening our already weak bullpen for a role player (at least for this season) is the kind of move this team needs to make.
According to mlbtradrumors, there was a deal in place for gagne involving alan horne. This kid is still in triple AAA and I don’t understand why he is untouchable. I think dealing for Gagne puts us over the top and I don’t see him as a definite rental. If anything he is an insurance policy for Rivera, and might be able to close in 2 – 3 years, depending upon When Rivera wants to hang it up. Gagne would be a major addition to our team, and I think would make us a favorite to win the wild card.
I forgot that Basak was with the team. lol
Doreen – excellent question. I would take Betemit over Wigginton… was never too impressed with him, when I saw him. And I don’t have any numbers in front of me to back that up.
It may be the bias settling in now for a new member of the team… heh.
I disagree with most of you. I think we have to trade for Gagne. If it takes Gardner, so be it. We can top the Sox offer without trading any of the top pitching prospects.
Also, if the Rangers do this deal, they’re idiots. Gabbard is a non-prospect who will get hit around once teams get a good look at him. He’s a middle reliever/5th starter at best. Murphy, near as I can tell, is Kevin Thompson minus two years. 4th/5th OFer.
The Yankee bench is ridiculous now, with Giambi coming back, Betemit, Molina, and the 4th outfielder all being able to come off the bench… man I like that a lot.
Hey Pete
You were quoted as a source for MLBtraderumors.com -
too bad it was a Yanks not getting Gagne story…
Sorry kiddies but, a Ramirez-Chamberlain-Vizcaino bridge to Mo is an upgrade from Bruney-Proctor-Farnsworth. Big upgrade, IMO.
I like the fact they are holding the course and not dealing away the future of the franchise to fix a very fragile team.
Let the help come from within.
Gagne? If they can get him and not sacrifice the future, great. If not, pass.
I am not going to worry about where Gagne ends up. He may end up signing an extension with Texas. Its probably how it will end up.
Finally, the Yankees are operating the way the rest of baseball does business. Especially in the revenue sharing era. Its about time.
Very happy Edwar is getting a second chance. Now, he just has to relax and throw strikes.
If he does, he won’t go two weeks without pitching again.
Greg,
Gagne is a Boras client…he ALWAYS sends players to the free agent market, and Gagne has even said that he doesn’t want a contract extension now. While whoever gets him now may sign him for next year, they’ll have as good a chance as any other team will.
This trade is absolutely awful!! Betemit is a good bench player, switch hitter, BUT the yanks need pitching!!! There biggest problem was they needed more bullpen help not to subtract from what they have. Proctor was bad, over used, walked the bullpark BUT he pitched everyday and ate a ton of innings. Now the Yanks traded there everyday reliever for a back up infielder who will never play!! Tell me how this makes sense. Proctor will be much better when he is actually rested and not killed by Torre, plus he was cheap and the yanks had him for another 4 years. The person to get rid of was Farnsworthless not Proctor!!You win games with pitching not a back up infielder. I would hope that this trade is the beginning of another trade for bullpen help if not Cashman is a fool.
Please go Farnsworth
* The Yankees view Betemit as another first-base/DH/bench option for this year, and a potential third-base replacement for Alex Rodriguez next year.
Betemit is batting .231 with 10 home runs and 26 RBIs this season off the Dodgers’ bench. Proctor is 2-5 with a 3.81 ERA, and his 54 1/3 innings out of the Yankees’ bullpen are tied for fourth-most among AL relievers.
THis is the biggest joke of a statement. A potentional replacement? yeah .231 is close to .300 and 10 hr are closet to 30+ I don’t understand this deal. Looking at his stats he is garbage.
SJ44 – I would say on paper, it’s an upgrade. But that may only be until the shock wears off, and hitters adjust to the stuff they’re throwing. Maybe during the first couple weeks in August… maybe not thereafter. I’m not saying I disagree with you; I’m saying there’s the solid possibilty that it’s not, given their inexperience.
I would trade a piece for Gagne, but it wouldn’t be one of the higher eschelon. If it was, I agree with everyone here – stay the course, and let it be. I don’t care where he ends up, either. But if he dons a Boston jersey come tomorrow… well, he won’t be as appreciated as he was today. And I’ll be rooting for him to blow leads left and right.
You know what, we know what Proctor was. Yes he was durable and ate innings, but who knows that Britton and/or Edwar wouldn’t be as good or better. Don’t get me started on Joba vs. him. Good trade by Cash, no brainer.
Gagne puts the Yankees “over the top”? Please.
So, Gagne is going to hit when this team goes 1-30 again W/RISP (which they have done 6 times this season) against bad teams?
Gagne is going to make the starters go longer, and more effectively, in games?
Gagne is going to make Damon and Abreu channel last season and make Giambi channel 2002?
Come on folks, this team is not “one player away”. Far from it.
Objectively, they are doing the right thing. They are not selling out the future to fix this team. If the issues can be fixed from within, with some minor touch-ups, great.
If not, they are getting guys like Hughes, Chamberlain and Ramirez experience that will help them next year.
Eric Gagne is not the “missing link” to Championship #27.
“Does anyone in the Yankee organization or otherwise really consider a .231 hitter as a potential 3rd base replacement for the league MVP next year?”
Melhall3,
That’s not exactly a fair picture of Betemit. He’s a .263 lifetime hitter with 28 HR’s and 79 RBI’s in his last 529 at bats spanning the last two seasons. Of course he can’t replace the best baseball player in the game… but the kid has got some pop.
YES, why am I not hearing anything about Kyle Farnsworth getting traded?
They should give him away for Bob Uecker.
CaptainsCorner: RHP relievers are much easier to find than infielders with above average power.
Stephen,
my mistake, I thought his deal was through ‘08. If thats the case. I still thinks he puts us over the top for this year, and alan horne isn’t one of our big 3 prospects. Still you have to wonder what Cashman is thinking to deplete our bullpen. while proctor could not be described as a good reliever he was serviceable.
Jennifer: You are looking at the stats but not understanding them. Look at his OBP, SLG, OPS+, EQA, VORP, WARP3, etc.
He is a better player than Proctor at this point in time, and he is a MUCH BETTER player than any of the people on our bench and possibly even andy phillips.
So what is Betemit’s defense like? Can he really play the OF too?
if you have cable in you office or {{cough}} sopcast, EPSN will be running a 90 minute trade-dealine special begining at 1:30 PM eastern.
What if Texas doesn’t want “second tier prospects” from the Yankees for Gagne? If you are the Yankees, what do you do? Relent and give them Horne or Kennedy, or stay the course?
That’s probably the issue facing the Yankees right now. If its me, I stay the course. I don’t do the deal and lose a top pitching prospect for a rental player. But, that’s just me, I value young pitching more than most.
As far as “adjusting”, if Joba Chamberlain is throwing strikes at 99 MPH with his fastball and 90 MPH with his slider, I don’t care how much you see it, you ain’t hittin’ it.
I have watched him pitch 7 times this year and that kid is the real deal. He is EASILY one of the 12 best pitchers in the organization, which is why Stick Michael (among others) has probably been so adamant about calling him up.
Betemit is not replacing Arod. He’s a utility player. If Arod leaves, his replacement will come from outside the organization. It won’t be Wilson Betemit.
I agree with SJ.
Why trade for a guy that is not capable of completely turning this team around? Gagne can’t.
It seems logical to trade Farnsworth, bring up Joba, bring up Hughes, and entertain a trade for a lesser known reliever, but to send off promising prospects when unnecessary seems like a bad move.
In terms of preventing him from going to the Red Sox, what is the point?
The Red Sox can and will be beaten, with or without Eric Gagne.
Betemit has not ever, never, played first base in the major leagues. He has played every other infield position, plus right field, but not first base. Just found that pretty interesting.
I agree you can’t worry who does get Gagne. The idea of him leaves me unsettled — I don’t trust his health and the Yankees have had too many pitchers with back/elbow problems in the past. I just have visions of him getting “overused” and breaking down mid-September.
I would not be surprised if Boston gets him IF they are suggesting he’d be a “co-closer,” since it’s important to Gagne, apparently to remain a closer, and he has to approve a Boston trade. It also does not surprise me that they’re afraid of Papelbon breaking down as the season progresses. And they must be afraid that Okajima has pitched over his head, as well.
Go NYR
July 31st, 2007 at 12:42 pm
Let the Red Sox give that stuff up. They are hipocrites. They are trading away their future for a rental. Have fun with a first round exit courtesy of the Detroit Tigers, Red Sox
How does trading Kason Gabbard and David Murphy trading away there future for Eric Gagne. The Sox are selling high on Gabbard and David Murphy will be a pretty good player but an allstar.
Yankees to miss playoffs in 2007. GO SOX
Dear Baseball God-
Blessed Art thou King of the BASEBALL UNIVERSE. May you answer my prayer.
I know I invoke you often. But I don’t ask for much. Just this one time, I beg of you: please, please, please do NOT send Eric Gagne to the Red Nation. (I thought you were supposed to hate Communists)
Now, I know I’ve cursed you over the years and have been blasphemous and ungrateful. Forgive me. And I, in turn, will forgive you your lapse in 2004.
I only ask you remember the special providence you have for the Yankees, especially when it comes to the Commies to the North.
So if you must send Gagne somewhere to help that little 32-yr-old incompetent in TX for all those previous trades in which he rivalled his former owner W. in ineptitude, then please send Gagne to Chicago or even, if you must, the Mets.
Your Humble Servant,
Kill Schill
I’m looking forward to NoMaas’ update, which will surely be a picture of Torre weeping as Proctor and ‘Farnsy’ are booted off the team.
I wish Proctor the best, I feel bad for him, Torre ruined what might have been a promising career. As for Farnsworth, good riddance.
As for this trade, Betemit immediately becomes our 5th best hitter, behind A Rod, Jeter, Matsui, Posada, and Cano. Throw Giambi in there when he returns.
People saying, “But he has a .231 average” don’t understand baseball. He has a ton of power, walks a lot, plays in a pitcher’s park and plays in a division full of pitcher’s parks. His OPS+ is 116, compared to Damon’s 84, Cairo’s 72, Melky’s 104, and Phillips’ 107, not to even mention Basak. Plus he’s only 25, plays solid defense at all 4 infield positions, and can provide some extra leverage in the A Rod negotiations this fall.
I cant see Bentiment as the replacement for Arod but I do see him going forward as the replacement for Cairo and if you look at it that way not a bad move at all. I truly believe that if Arod goes the Yanks know they cant replace player for player in production and it will have to come from a combination of players. Again remember we have to re-sign Arod, Mo, and Jorge all of that will take a lot of money and if we can get some things from within rather than spending high on the FA market it is a good thing.
Oops. I should say Murphy a good player but not and allstar
I can’t believe the irresponsibility of someone writing that Betemit is insurance against A-Rod opting out. How utterly ridiculous.
6th best I meant
What does everyone out there think of Chad Cordero? I wonder why the Yankees are never mentioned in connection with him?
Are they leery of another pitcher who has only flourished in the NL? I wonder.
People still care about batting average? The guy gets on base at a decent clip, has above average power, and can play multiple positions. Proctor is a right handed reliever who throws hard, straight, and inconsistently. Not a blockbuster trade, but given the Ramirez and Chamberlain are available in Scranton, I think it improves the team.
only move left – DUMP FARTSWORTHLESS BY 4 PM
SJ44-
what is your evaluation on Horne and the boston prospects.
Doreen, who do you propose we get to play 3b next year if A Rod leaves? Would signing Mike Lowell to a multiyear deal be preferable? No. Would moving Cano to 3b and playing Cairo full time at 2b be preferable? No. Would playing Basak there be preferable? No.
Enlighten us, please.
Kill Schill-(ing),
Rumor is that the Nats want a king’s ransom for Cordero or Rauch.
SJ44,
Gagne makes our team noticeably better. He makes every one of our starters better, because they won’t need to be over extended and pitch an extra inning if they get into trouble. How many games have we had this seasons where one of our starters has gone one inning too long and relinquished a tight game. I can count three of them off the top of my head (Clemens in baltimore / Wang against Toronto / and Pettite against colorado (i think)). With Torre you really don’t know cause, but you would assume he would trust a proven veteran over young kids and would get him into tight games.
Also our players who sucked at the beginning of the year Matsui Cano and damon, have turned it on as of late, and if they continue this production we have a chance to score runs every game. The only question, when these players produce is the effort we get from our starters and whether or not they can preserve the lead.
Don’t forget that Melky has come on strong, and give us options in our lineup if one of our outfielders is struggling, and Hughes returning to the rotation is a huge improvement over Igawa
Gayle, I agree that Betemit is a replacement for Cairo going forward.
Unless I’m missing something, Betemit’s career stats do not include any time at 1B. Is he going to be learning on-the-job?
Pete, Murphy and Gabbard isn’t exactly a killer package
Muprhy is almost 26, and at his skill set, he’s at best a bareable CF and most likely just a 4th OF with little to excite about (no power, ok avg / obp, not much speed)
Gabbard ’s line is good enough in AAA this year, but it’s not screaming “front rotation pitcher” he gave up 10 HR in only 14 start, with decent but not great ratio, is past his 25th birthyday.
He’s success at the major so far screams “first time around” + small sample size fluke, he’s K/BB ratio is bad and while he’s keeping the ball mostly on the ground, it’s not exactly Wang / Webb / Halladay level GB . he’s probably goign to be a ok crafty lefty, nothing wrong with that, but also nothing hot.
Murphy = Brett Gardner with less speed and potential.
Gabbard = Tyler Clippard with less upside but more success right now but also 3 years older
if that’s all Boston is offering, I can’t see how the Yankees got turned down when they rumored to threw out Clippard / Gardner + Marquez or Karsten
Proctor is not good, guys. Torre didn’t ruin a promising career, he made him one out of nothing.
1b is much easier to play than 3b, SS, or 2b. He can play those well, it won’t take him long to learn. Especially with Donny Baseball teaching him.
Gange is pitching way, way, way over his head this season. His peripherals aren’t good enough to expect him to maintain his current performance.
Kill Schill-
Red nation ain’t commie, nah, they’re “entitled” incompetents like gonzo and the other guy you mentioned.
“Since the original trade rumored was Proctor for Wigginton, how does Wigginton compare with Betemit?”
very favorably.
younger, better, cheaper.
Bob from NJ –
I have no idea why you’re being sarcastic with me. Did I insult anyone? Was I rude? Did I offer a totally assinine opinion?
If A-Rod opts out, and they can’t get a bonafide 3B to replace him, they’ll certainly have enough utility guys to fill in until they do. It’ll be like the 1B situation this season. All I’m saying is, I doubt Betemit is the insurance against A-Rod opting out.
Stop talking about Betemit replacing A-Rod. A-Rod is irreplaceable and all this talk can be saved for the offseason.
Betemit deepens our bench and infield. It gives us options down the stretch. Bench players are role players and nothing more. Betemit is a role player this year and nothing more.
I too wish Proctor the best of luck. I always liked him and felt bad for his being overused by Torre’s retarded inability to manage a bullpen effectively. He shouldn’t be allowed to even mutter the word “bullpen”. Guidry needs to step up to the plate and be a bit more involved with this element of his pitching staff.
Bob from NJ – one correction… Betemit is not 25, he just turned 27.
FYI All,
Bob from NJ is a crotchety old man that enjoys feeble attempts at insulting people.
Don’t take him seriously.
“Does anyone in the Yankee organization or otherwise really consider a .231 hitter as a potential 3rd base replacement for the league MVP next year?”
i think this misses the point.
the yankees can’t really control it if A-Rod simply wants to leave. they have no control over that.
Betemit provides some insurance in case that happens.
no one WANTS the yankees to let A-Rod go b/c they feel Betemit is an adequate replacement. not at all.
but if that does happen, at the very least they have Betemit.
If Cashman can pull off the Gagne trade and only give up second tier procspects then fine..But he can not give up top prospects including Horne for a 2 month rental. If the Yanks were in 1st place then maybe but not where this team is now. I think Texas is throwing out the Mets and Boston just to try and get the Yanks to give up more but Cashman cant do it. Please like gabbard is even a prospect. If 2 prospects from Karstens, Clippard, Britton, Marquez can get it done then fine, if not forget it. Gagne will be a free agent and will most likely want to close and wouldnt be back..its not worth it considering the Yanks might not even make the play offs.
“Bob from NJ – one correction… Betemit is not 25, he just turned 27.”
this seems to be under debate. many sources say 25, espn says 27.
Deep to Left,
What are you talking about? Betemit turns 26 in November. He’s in his age 25 season.
I guess Rangers GM does have rocks in his head. There are some other relievers available. Chad Qualls, Zack Greinke, Chad Cordero, Matt Thornton, Jon Rauch,…..I can’t think of anyone else.
Doreen, re your quote “I can’t believe the irresponsibility of someone writing that Betemit is insurance against A-Rod opting out. How utterly ridiculous.” you may want to see Peter’s next post which expilicitly mentions Wilson as a possible A Rod substitute. When will people learn we don’t need an all star at every position?
Jeff NJ, re Peter being mentioned in Rotoworld, I just looked there & didn’t see it. Can you please tell me what Rotoworld said about our host, Peter Abraham? Thanks.
I like this trade also.
I would think Cairo will be cut soon.
Now let’s bring up Joba, call up Britton ot Edwar and get into the playoffs!!!
Thanks, hmmm, for your answer to my question. Also, thanks to Sammy.
Bob from NJ –
I just question whether it’s smart or necessary to have to teach someone a new position at this point in the season, when it’s imperative every game be won. Andy Phillips plays a very fine 1B, as does Mientkiewicz (if and when he returns). I don’t doubt that Betemit can learn 1B, especially, as you point out, with Donnie Baseball as the teacher. I guess what I’m saying is when the reports are that he’ll switch off with Phillips, I had assumed he had played 1B at some point in his career.
Betemit looks like he’d be a good utility player, with some power, and the ability to get on base.
CaptainsCorner,
Ya, the whole 2 month rental thing really does ring true. Gagne is a closer and isn’t going to be re-signing with any team that does not guarantee him that spot.
Perhaps Papelbon will be moved to a starting role as originally planned before this season, but again, that is something that certainly won’t be determined this season.
I see no point in trading for a guy that is guaranteed to be gone after this season. Say what you want about A-Rod leaving, but if Gagne were to come to NY, he DEFINITELY wouldn’t be in the stripes for 2008.
No point.
He was born on 11/02/1981. ESPN.com is wrong, and its not the first time.
Its 1:30 and Frans is still on the team!
Doreen,
You called my opinion “utterly ridiculous” which could be considered insulting. Anyway, Betemit is a HUGE upgrade over our current 3b options, minus A Rod. Other than Lowell, there are no prominent 3b who will be free agents this offseason (aside from A Rod, possibly). So if A Rod leaves, who will replace him? Betemit is by far a better option than we had yesterday, so yes, this is insurance, and it is a bit of leverage. It is not the primary purpose of acquiring him, but it is a plus.
If you don’t think it is, then who will replace A Rod next year? Who makes more sense than Betemit? I’d like to know.
Deep to Left,
According to http://www.baseball-reference......wi01.shtml he is 25
If the Sox give up Gabbard they are putting a lot of faith in Lester and Schilling to stay healthy and produce.
I like hanging onto the prospects, really I do but I wonder about the overall logic of a plan in which you pay Clemens a boat load for 1 yr and dont budge at all to put yourselves in a position to win it all.
I like Betemit though. I remember people raving about him when the Dodgers picked him up. I think his average will come up. The whole Dodger team was kind of in a slump. Those trhings are conrtageous. Just ask Matsui, Cabrera, Phillips, Abreu and Cano. I think hitting in our lineup and hopefuly getting some more at bats will help him. LA is a kind of unsettled team right now. They dont know whether to play their over priced vets or promising young guys. At least that is what Melky tells me!
Its actually insulting to Arod to say things like that, I think, Doreen.
“and can provide some extra leverage in the A Rod negotiations this fall.”
What kind of leverage does he give the Yankees though? Because the only leverage I can see, is it gives Boras the leverage to laugh in their faces if they attempt to use him as any kind of leverage. I’m not saying he won’t be useful for them this season, but I don’t see how he helps them in the Arod negotiations at all.
“THis is the biggest joke of a statement. A potentional replacement? yeah .231 is close to .300 and 10 hr are closet to 30+ I don’t understand this deal. Looking at his stats he is garbage.”
Jennifer, they are not garbage.
he has an .833 OPS in a pitchers park. he is 25 (or 27, let’s say 26). switch hits. plays every position.
that .833 OPS is higher than everyone in the lineup except for A-Rod, Jeter, Posada, and Matsui.
I like this move a lot. I like Betemit. I will miss Proctor in a way, but it was time to go. I wish him nothing but the best in L.A.
As for Gagne, I don’t agree with Cash giving up Horne for that short a rental either and I’m glad he is not doing it. I won’t even mention trading KENNEDY for him as that would have been monumental insanity. Let Boston make the panic move. Even though I think Gabbard has been performing over his head and don’t know much about David Murphy, I still think they’d regret it cause no way would Gagne re-sign there.
Although I think the chances of him going to Chicago are just about equal if not greater. Since he is so about closing I bet sharing time with Ryan Dempster (maybe even taking over for him) is a lot more palatable to him than sharing time with Papebon AND Okajima. He’d be considered a more important piece in Chicago and has just as good a chance to make playoffs.
I like Horne more than most. I wouldn’t trade him for Gagne.
Gabbard and Murphy? Not prospects, IMO. It would surprise me if Texas took that offer.
Brett Gardner was put on the DL yesterday so I doubt he is available in trade. He crashed into the fence the other night and dinged himself pretty good.
The Gagne stuff is the classic overreaction, like we see during free agency, for a player. The “get him, no matter what” crowd, believing he is the “missing link” to a title.
He’s not the missing link to this team.
Yes, some guys got off to slow starts. However, as early as a couple of days ago, they were still not hitting W/RISP against some pretty bad teams, their starters (at least half of them) still don’t go deep into games, and they have ZERO pop off the bench.
Some of these issues can be solved from within. JMO but, I think Hughes, Chamberlain and Giambi are HUGE upgrades.
I like Gagne but, I would be leery of trading significant parts for him.
“he is 25 (or 27, let’s say 26). ”
Oh is he another El Duque/Pujols with the age thing? Haha.
Adam,
No one seems to know when this guy was born.
ESPN, Rototimes and Rotoworld list his birthdate as July 28, 1980
Baseball-reference.com and CBSSportsline list it as Nov 2nd, 1981.
Lying about age is nothing new to these guys… my guess is he’s 27, not 25.
“There biggest problem was they needed more bullpen help not to subtract from what they have. Proctor was bad, over used, walked the bullpark BUT he pitched everyday and ate a ton of innings. Now the Yanks traded there everyday reliever for a back up infielder who will never play!! Tell me how this makes sense. Proctor will be much better when he is actually rested and not killed by Torre, plus he was cheap and the yanks had him for another 4 years. The person to get rid of was Farnsworthless not Proctor!!”
this argument is full of contradictions.
you say he is bad, “walked the ballpark” but you don’t want him traded.
you are saying his value is that he pitched everyday, but then you say he will only be good if he gets rest.
also, no one wants Farnsworth. he’s a jerk and he stinks.
SJ44,
Keep it coming. Your logic is sound.
DO NOT BREAK THE BANK FOR A 2 MONTH RENTAL.
Again, leave this Betemit replacing A-Rod crap alone. Not an issue right now. Leverage is not a factor either. A career .231 hitter doesn’t provide leverage and NY doesn’t need leverage with A-Rod. He has played here, he knows what to expect, and will thus make his decision based on what the best scenario is for him and no one else.
People are still getting upset over Betemit possibly playing 3B next year. Let it go, people!! It’s still 2007, and right now, he’s a bench player. The Yankees have no leverage in the negotiations with A-Rod, so it doesn’t hurt to get someone who can play and produce at 3B. This would have been a good time to mention Eric Duncan, but obviously that’s out of the question.
Looks like ESPNs experts starting posting opinions instead of facts even in the age column.
E-ROC,
YES!!! Thank you.
DROP IT PEOPLE.
Not fixing this bullpen at the sake of your 4th best prospect is sinful.
Bob from NJ –
I ought to have been more specific — I was referring to what I read on the ESPN website. I was not talking about anyone’s opinion on this blog. I apologize if you felt insulted. I try never, ever to do that here; we all have differing opinions and I try to respect everyone’s right to their own. I probably am overreaching in that I believe there is a subtle, very subtle possibility that suggesting that the Yankees have a replacement for A-Rod pushes him out the door.
Plus, I already answered you that if A-Rod does opt out and a better replacement is not immediately found, Betemit and whoever else is on the team as a utility player will probably do the job.
As for the Bruney/Edwar thing. I have been wanting them to send Bruney down for a few weeks now. He’s young and cheap and I’m not ready to give up on him completely AT ALL. Also since he was not from our system, I don’t think he ever got much of a chance to work with Nardi Contreras did he? I’d like to see him get that chance to work on his control and realize his potential. I still think he can provide solid help in the future. Burying him in the MLB bullpen only to have him come in once a week to issue BBs was not the answer. Send him down and see if you can fix his problems. If not, nothing ventured nothing gained, since Cash picked him up off the scrap heap anyway. But give him the chance.
Now my question about Edwar to SJ44 or anyone else who knows is this. How did he fare in the minors throwing his fastball for strikes? He can at least do it with consistency there, right? If so then I like his chances to help us down the stretch too, provided that THIS TIME he is put in a situation to succeed rather than being set up to fail!
Also what is the good word on Ross Ohlendorf? Might he be called up soon and if not, what is causing the hesitation? Hope to see Great Britton soon too. Is he off the DL yet?
That’s “overreacting” not “overreaching”. Sorry.
Larry,
Betemit is NOT a career .231 hitter. He’s a career .263 hitter.
Sometimes the reverse is true too though, some guys lie and say they are older than they actually are, so they could sign… instead of waiting out a few more years.
I hope Gagne isn’t the only bullpen option that BC is looking at right now.
Yeah, we’re splitting hairs with the age thing. 25… 27… it’s not like we’re signing him to a 10 year contract… so really, who cares.
Thank you Deep to Left, I had this season and career mixed up.
How is moving a double-A prospect breaking the bank? someone mentioned th elogic of tossing $$$ at clemens but not giving up horne for a shot to bolseter your pen immediately???
If anyone remembers, the Yankees tried to get Betemit last year from the Braves for Proctor. The Braves said no. It was a good idea then and a better one now while Proctor has any trade value left. Our bench is starting to come together and a deep bench is more valuable and harder to come by than a generic wild 95 mph fastball throwing righty any day. While Torre might make questionable moves out of the bullpen, he does seem to have a knack for pulling a hot bat off the bench at the right time if there is anyone there to use. Getting Proctor away from Torre so he (Torre) might actually have to put some faith into Joba and Edwar is also probably a good thing. All around a good move.
Mark Newman (I think that’s his name) said that Ohlendorf is far off, but he still needs to get command of all of his pitches. That’s the only thing holding back. Obviously, he opened a lot of eyes in the organization with the increased velocity. I guess Peter Gammons was right about Ohlendorf.
Keep Posting–Nobody is saying that there is a problem with dealing AA pitchers. Alan Horne is close to untouchable as BC said. So Jeff Marquez and Clippard and possibly a third prospect for Gagne is enough, IMO. There are other relievers out there to be had for the right price.
Gagne is off to Boston.
Thanks for the info. about Ohlendorf E-Roc. I’d read somewhere (here, I’m sure) that he had a great sinker and got all excited about seeing him soon, but I guess that was premature. It’s great they think he can help in the future though. Looks like all the bashing of the Randy “Out for season” Johnson trade was also a wee bit premature!
Anyway the more I read about Betemit the more I like him. That kind of OPS in a pitchers’ park?! F yeah!!! Where do we sign? Oh wait we already did
Here’s my question, then…is the overwhelming feeling:
1) only some of these prospects will make it, that’s why we should hold onto as many as possible (law of averages)
2) all of these guys will be studs in time and will fill out the NYY rotation in ‘09-’10
Given the history (state din #1), I can’t believe anyone seriously considers #2. With that, if you’re gonna guess that some will make it and others won’t anyway, why not guess which one or two is better suited long term and hold on there? Making your entire top-2 tier prospects untouchable is a bit of a joke.
Deep to Left,
MLB.com has 25. I think that’s as official as you’ll get.
Larry,
I heard he went to Boston as well. Im glad to see Cashman
is not giving up Horne or Cabrera for dl waiting to happen
Gagne. I think we are better off with Joba comming in
anyways.
Now all im asking for Cash is to trade of dfa Farns.
according to espn and buster olney, gagne is pretty much going to the sox. we need to get rid of farnsy dont we?
Tigers havnt done anything. Gagne going elsewhere, maybe
this is the time where they take Farns from us or maybe
the Brewers.
Hey all.. first post. Read most of the posts. Anyone else concerned about preserving Joba’s arm and the different type of strain, wear & tear becoming a reliever may bring about? His makeup in the bigs is entirely unkown and untested at this point.
Betemit is a nice player and should fit in well with the team.. I agree wholeheartedly with the poster who said to deal Proctor now while he still has some value.
Cashman must bring back at least one experienced arm before 4:00 pm today for the pen.. Doesn’t have to necessarlily be a Gagne, Cordero or Marte.. but we’re gonna need some other options other than the kids, MO & Viz.. I’d love another lefty besides Myers, Villone & Henn. If they can’t bag one of the better setup options.. I say bring in two functional relievers including a lefty and roll the dice. Proctor was simply not gonna get in done no matter what.