Today in The Journal News
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- July
- 31
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The Yankees are pursuing Eric Gagne as the trade deadline approaches. This story also has some updates on Joba Chamberlain and Jason Giambi.
This is the best story of the day. Bobby Murcer teed it up at Joe Torre’s charity golf tournament. Alex Myers was on hand.
Minor-league managers aren’t there for wins and losses. It’s about player development. Brian Heyman spoke to several skippers for this story including Mike Gillespie of Staten Island.
Tom Glavine goes for his 300th victory tonight. John Delcos looks at the man behind the milestone.
As most of you know, I covered the Mets before I moved over to the Yanks. I got to know Glavine pretty well and he’s easily one of the best athletes I have dealt with. We don’t ask much of the players but Tom always goes beyond. He makes himself available in the winter to answer questions about MLBPA matters or other issues that crop up. He’s also a helpful guy during the season.
He understands that being available to the media helps the fans. Beyond all that, he’s a heck of a pitcher and could be the last to win 300 for a while. Good luck to him tonight.
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on Tuesday, July 31st, 2007 at 4:58 am by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
Pete,
The RedSox are becoming a leading candidate to get Gagne because they might pick up his bonuses so he would waive his no-trade clause. I hope we have a back up plan.
What’s your take on Giambi’s return to the lineup? How do u think it will play out?
What are you doing up at 5 AM Pete?
better question… what the hell are we doing up at 5 am?
It is 1244pm right now. At least for me, because I’m in Turkey.
i could go for a turkey sammich right about now… also i bet gange ends up on some team none of us even considered…
Pete, what actually is your take on a potential Gagne trade? You’ve been very vocal about moving Farnsworth, but I don’t remember you saying things about Gagne. And is Horne viewed as a chip or a prospect? I’ve seen him on some “untouchables”-lists (where his numbers seem to warrant him), while missing from others.
Funny thing, if we’d all just wait a day, we’d know all about it, but instead we choose to pick it apart and get nervous for days, weeks in advance…
The clock is ticking and bullpen moves to be made. Joba’s impressive outing in relief brightens the picture. Either Farnsworth or Proctor (or both) will be gone depending on a Gagne deal.
Another year and more Wilson Betemit rumors. This year it’s Proctor for Betemit. Why are the Yankees so infatuated with a career .263 hitter?
I agree with John in Ohio on Betemit. We need more arms in the pen, not more guys like Miguel Cairo. Why trade from an already weak position? Don’t understand it at all. Say we get Gagne, move Proctor, but then Gagne goes down….again…..we are actually worse off, but we’ll have a .230 UIF….uGH
Before I head to work –
1. So the Red Sox might offer to pick up Gagne’s bonuses. What, Cash and the Yanks wouldn’t do the same thing?
2. Despite’s his problems with consistent control, everyone says Proctor still has great “stuff”. Recent reports have it that his biggest problem is wanting to throw the ball through a wall. That’s seems potentially correctable, esp. if prime offender here – Krazy Kyle – hits the bricks. Is a mediocre hitting glove man worth giving up on that?
By the way, Peter – what ARE you doing up at 5AM?
What is taking so long to get rid of Krazy Kyle. I’ll be very upset if he is still with the team after 4pm.
You don’t think the Yanks would guarantee that money for Gagne???
The Sox don’t have the arms to deal for him.
Lets give Edwar Rameriz a REAL shot in the pen!!!!!
I just want to be the first to point out that 300 Wins in the NL is roughly 244 in the AL…
“The Sox don’t have the arms to deal for him.”
Thats not exactly true. While they won’t trade Bucholtz they still have a few talent young arms in Masterson, Delcarmen, Bard, Bowden(who is probably close to untouchable), hell there may even be some interest in Hansen.
Now most of if not all these guys project to be relievers, what the yankees are offering aren’t exactly hot prospects either but guys with good arms who could contribute in the future. So don’t sleep on Boston, because you know they could make a run, and at least drive up the asking price so the yankees have to include Horne(which I think is what will happen anyways.) Atlanta landing Dotel will make a lot of teams desperate, ie the Dodgers.
But now that the dodgers are desperate, maybe we can get more than just Betemit if we deal proctor.
The Yanks couldn’t get more for a prime arm like Proctor?
If they’re so intent on trading him why not open up the bidding to every NL team. The Phillies wouldn’t want him? The Mets? Cardinals? Cubs?
Proctor a prime arm? he’s ok; he’s not prime.
Wilson Betemit would be a nice pickup for the Yankees. He’s young (26), a switchhitter, provides decent offense and can play several infield positions. He would be the alternative for Wiggington. I wouldn’t trade him straight up for Proctor, however. Proctor still has some potential if the pitching guru’s can improve his command and consistency
(and Torre can spare him those 3-4 consecutive relief appearances).
Maybe The Dodgers could take Krazy Kyle with some cash incentive?
You said it yourself, StandingOneill. Those Sox arms you just listed project to be middle relievers.
Not exactly prime pitching talent. I’m sure Texas isn’t looking for middle of the road prospects like Craig Hansen.
Proctor just turned 30. He’s cheap. He has been thru the AL East and playoff wars and he throws 95+ with solid off speed stuff. Plus he can be a starter. I think thats pretty prime especially in this market.
Cashman has to redo that bullpen and bridge in front of Mo. I don’t care how he gets it done. It is a must do.
We got a week where we need to do some major damage here.
Things are set up well.
Proctor definitely is a prime arm in terms of pure stuff. It’s his control that’s the problem.
I’d love to see Joba and Gagne setting up for Mariano. I think Mariano would too.
i would prefer joba chamberlain over gagne . this is why …for one joba doesnt cost anything to bring up . secondly gagne wants to close . i think he would prefer to stay in texas and close . so if he was traded to the yanks and its not the role he wants – i could see yet another upset player with his heart just not into it . both chamberlain and gagne would be great but there’s other teams out there willing to give up top tier prospects for gagne .
man , did atlanta bulk-up or what . dotel has been throwing the ball great this year . ( especially at jeter’s head ) . plus , adding mark tiexiera was huge . these moves may just help atl move ahead of the mutz .
Jonathan Broxton is a prime arm; Scott Shields is a prime arm; Brandon Morrow are JJ Putz are young, prime arms in the pen; Joel Zumaya is a prime arm.
Scott Proctor is not a prime arm.
“You said it yourself, StandingOneill. Those Sox arms you just listed project to be middle relievers.
Not exactly prime pitching talent. I’m sure Texas isn’t looking for middle of the road prospects like Craig Hansen.”
True, but Andy what are the yankees offering up? Marquez, Clippard…those aren’t exactly top prospects, if prospects are all either. Horne has the most value as a potential 4-5 starter, absolute celing at a 3. Which is why I think we would need to include him to get Gagne.
My point was Boston can package some decent prospects too, but unless Bowden is included its pretty much like our package minus Horne.
The bottom line Joba will be a great addition to the pen, but the fact is we still need one more arm. In a perfect world, the answer to that problem would be Eric Gagne.
If Farnsworth isn’t gone by the 4pm deadline today I think the whole Yankee world will be pretty shocked.
Scott Proctor is a good 6th or 7th inning guy, but consistency isn’t is fortay.
If Proctor gets moved that tell me 2 things. 1)The yankee brass may think his arm is close to shot, and 2) they are taking the sell high approach with him, in case his recent struggles are not a fluke.
Also, getting Betemit is interesting in that he provides insurance in case arod leaves. Obviously he’s not in arods league, but he is a near capable third baseman.
The purpose of giving Gagne his bonuses is to get him to waive his limited no-trade clause, which would otherwise prohibit a trade to the Red Sox. The no-trade doesn’t apply to the Yankees or the Mets, so it wouldn’t help the NY teams at all to match the Red Sox’s generosity in awarding the bonuses. All the bonus money does is potentially give Boston a seat at the auction, which they do not currently have.
Personally, I doubt that Boston is serious in trying to acquire Gagne. They don’t really need him now, and they weren’t interested in pursuing him in the offseason when they DID seem to need him. I think they are in this solely to drive up the bidding and/or to avoid being criticized later for “just letting the Yankees have Gagne.”
“True, but Andy what are the yankees offering up? Marquez, Clippard…those aren’t exactly top prospects, if prospects are all either. Horne has the most value as a potential 4-5 starter, absolute celing at a 3. Which is why I think we would need to include him to get Gagne.”
Cilppard was a top prospect prior to this season(he was ranked on a few top 100 lists) and Marquez is no slouch either. Horne projects to a be a top of the line starter if everything works out. If texas takes Hansen and Bard(both of whom suck) over Clippard and Marquez, well then I’d say they are stupid.
Hopefully the bullpen will be minus Proctor and Farns by 3 cst today. Bruney can pitch in the middle innings if a starter gets in trouble.
Horne is better than any pitcher that Boston has in their system besides Bucholz.
And Clippard and Marquez would be top of the line there too.
Thanks TurnTwo for listing 5 of the best relievers in the game as prime arms. But Proctor is a prime arm too. You do realize there can be more than a few prime arms. Having a prime arm doesn’t make you JJ Putz though. But it certainly gives you a chance at it. Which most teams will gladly take. Thinking they can tinker and fix something and the light will come on.
You cannot teach 95mph+. That’s a prime arm.
If Boston was going to get involved they would have jumped in already and sealed the deal. The Mets may overpay but they need their guys like Milledge right now to play on the big club.
I cannot see adding Joba being the only change to the pen.
It will be a lot better if he’s the 6/7 inning guy.
A Gagne deal will be announced between 3:00 and 4:00PM
The fate of Farnsworth will be known by 2:00PM
Cashman will make some moves today to shore up that leaky pen and that bench.
it doesnt matter if you can throw hard. there are tousands of pitchers who have come and gone who threw hard. his problem is location and consistency.
you can not be considered a prime arm when you cant consistently locate a fastball. you can not be considered a prime arm when you have almost a 1:1 K/BB ratio, and K less than 1 batter per inning coming out of the pen.
proctor is a solid option out of the pen, but this is a prime example of people overvaluing a prospect, or not looking at someone on your favorite team objectively.
According to the New York Daily News, the Yankees turned down a deal for Eric Gagne that centered around Double-A pitching prospect Alan Horne.
The Yankees are said to have already told the Rangers that Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy are unavailable, which makes it difficult to see how a deal for Gagne could get done. Instead, they’re reportedly offering some combination of Tyler Clippard, Matt DeSalvo, Jeff Marquez, Chase Wright and Scott Proctor.
I love the negotiating by Cashman. Basically telling Texas to take it over leave it. Horne is not a 4-5 starter. He is projected to a 2-3 with continued normal development. He would be better than anyone any other team can offer. Marquez would slide right into the top of the Rangers system without question. If Clippard didn’t hit a brick wall recently he would as well. Gagne is good, but 15-20 good appearances aren’t worth a potential 2-3 guy who would be the top pitching prospect in a super majority of organizations.
Scott Proctor is not a “prime arm”. Listen to what Mariano said about the guys in the bullpen. Its all you need to know.
He is Sturtze II. A guy who has had a limited run of success with the Yankees and everyone begins to overrate him.
If he was a “prime arm”, teams would be offering more than Wilson Betemit for him.
He is what he is. A journeyman guy.
He isn’t anything special.
It would be an upgrade if Cashman traded Farnsworth for that geeky character in the movie “Office Space” … you know, the worker whose obsession was to catch whoever took his stapler, who the boss avoided firing outright by figuring he’d eventually stop showing up for work after his pay checks stopped coming, and whose cubicle kept getting smaller and was moved around until he was working out of the broom closet. It would come as no surprise if that guy (or someone like him) could have better command of the strike zone than Farnsworth and could have hit for a higher average than Wil Nieves.
not to mention that proctor’s confidence is in the toilet right now .
TurnTwo, Proctor doesn’t just throw hard. He also has a good changeup and good curveball. He has great stuff, and that is undeniable. Because of this, he can be described as a prime arm. But because of his control problems, he’s not necessarily a great PITCHER. There is a difference between a “good arm” and a “good pitcher”.
I think that’s what most of us mean when we talk about Proctor being a prime arm.
If Proctor had pinpoint control, he’d be right up there on that list of relievers you mentioned, without a doubt.
Ranting Guy, you could have just said “Milton from Office Space”, lol
According to the New York Daily News, the Yankees turned down a deal for Eric Gagne that centered around Double-A pitching prospect Alan Horne.
The Yankees are said to have already told the Rangers that Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy are unavailable, which makes it difficult to see how a deal for Gagne could get done. Instead, they’re reportedly offering some combination of Tyler Clippard, Matt DeSalvo, Jeff Marquez, Chase Wright and Scott Proctor.
but he doesnt, and he’s not. he’s good, not great. if he can get the team a useful piece to bolster the bench, he is expendable.
Way to post exactly what Jordan posted about 20 minutes ago. heh
You’re right, he doesn’t, and he’s by no means great. But the Yankees aren’t exactly brimming with dependable bullpen options right now. I see the logic behind the Betemit trade, but it doesn’t seem practical at the moment.
betemit trade where will he play, 3rd no,2nd no, ss no.let’s focus on the bullpen
Proctor doesn’t have “great stuff”. His curveball and changeup are average at best. He can’t locate either of them with any consistency. Look at his walk totals as evidence of that. He’s throwing straight, 92 MPH fastballs in the middle of the plate. Or, as Mariano said, “trying to throw the ball through a wall”.
Not the work of a guy with “great stuff”. Check out his numbers against teams like the Red Sox, Angels and Tigers, 3 teams the Yankees are fighting with for a playoff spot. His numbers are hideous against those teams.
Sorry but, guys with “great stuff” don’t pitch to a 4+ ERA, walk as many guys as he does, and consistently get tagged for runs in his outings.
He’s a “JAG” (Just Another Guy). If he was more than that, the offers would be more substantial for him.
Its not like he is 24 years old. He is 30. Not exactly a “prospect” at this stage of his career.
Sometimes, you achieve addition by subtraction. If the Yankees can move any of the underachievers out of that bullpen, they will achieve that goal.
Hey guys Buster Olney just said on Cold pizza or whatever its called now the Red Sox are offering Craig Hanson for Gagne.
Also said the Proctor for Betemit deal is in place so we shall see what happens. My bad on the 2 posts
The logic of a Proctor-Betemit trade is to give them more pop off the bench, a backup in case Phillips comes down to earth, and to create an opening for Chamberlain.
Removing an average (at best) relief pitcher off a below average bullpen, doesn’t weaken it. Especially, if the replacement (Chamberlain) pitches as well as he has in the minors.
If he doesn’t, what have you really lost? Its not like anybody really trusts Scott Proctor to hold one run leads down the stretch.
Sometimes, you just have to cut bait and move on. Hopefully, in the cases of guys like Bruney, Proctor and Farnsworth, the Yankees are able to do that today.
When Mariano Rivera criticizes somebody, you KNOW somethin’ ain’t right. Its all I needed to hear to realize they have to do something about the bullpen.
Report: Yankees turn down deal for Gagne
Eric Gagne – R – TEX – Jul. 31 – 9:40 am et
According to the New York Daily News, the Yankees turned down a deal for Eric Gagne that centered around Double-A pitching prospect Alan Horne.
The Yankees are said to have already told the Rangers that Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy are unavailable, which makes it difficult to see how a deal for Gagne could get done. Instead, they’re reportedly offering some combination of Tyler Clippard, Matt DeSalvo, Jeff Marquez, Chase Wright and Scott Proctor. Jul. 31 – 9:40 am et
Source: New York Daily News
Texas has to be salivating for to get Hansen, not that the Red Sox may not have already killed his arm. Texas was smart to gamble on Gagne, especially with the richest franchises fighting over him.
I just hope they can find a taker for Farnsworth, he should not be on this team any more. Cash must be a busy man, no way he got too much sleep last night.
Joe Torre spoke to reporters yesterday about Alex Rodriguez:
“I hope he does it at home, otherwise he’s not going to start relaxing. Right now he’s tighter than a drum,” Torre said when asked about Rodriguez yesterday at a charity golf outing at Trump National Golf Club in Briarcliff Manor to benefit his Safe at Home Foundation. “I’m glad (we’re) home. I didn’t want to say this earlier, because we’ve certainly needed Alex before that. But I think it will be crazy.
“I think it’s going to be pretty special, especially with Alex, with what he went through last year. It’s nice when you hear people out of the stands say ‘Get on (base) for Alex.’ Last year was so opposite, and he had a tough time dealing with it. I know it was very uncomfortable for all of us.”
…”His hitting zone’s a little too large right now; he’s not being very selective. … You could throw the resin bag up there right now and I think he’d swing at it,” Torre said.
LOL….maybe they should start throwin the resin bag at A-Rod ??? too funny !!!
I wonder what the Daily News has to say about it? Can anyone post it?
We’ve been fortunate to get out of Proctor what we did. Trade him while we still can, even if Betemit’s no great shakes.
He’ll help the bench, if nothing else.
And dump Farnsworth and Myers, as well.
Make Igawa a reliever. He’s funky and could get lefties out.
Call up any number of RHPs, beside Joba.
Williamson is down there, Brower is down there, Britton (might still be hurt).
All of those guys can do just as good as job as Proctor and Farns have done lately.
Re A Rod, I have tickets on Saturday. Here’s my prediction for that day, Hughes pitches a 2 hitter with 10 k’s, A Rod hit’s HR 500, and Jeff NJ sitting in section 32 catches the ball. Could that day be better?
Betemit is a solid player. I don’t know why people are so down on him. He’ll come here to relieve A-Rod, Jeter, Cano, or Phillips. Giving them time at DH. He can also play the outfield in the pinch. When he was given time to play everyday, he has produced which was once, for the Braves a couple of years ago. He is very good pinch hitter.
SWO – That was his name … Milton !!! Thanks. Maybe due to a serious lack of coffee intake this morning I just couldn’t remember his name.
While a guy like that might be forced to wear half the team’s jock straps over his head in the locker room, his opponents BA against and his K/BB ratio couldn’t be worse than Farnsworth’s.
I don’t like Joba out of the ‘pen but if it gets him some good ML experience and fills a gaping hole and gets the Yanks to October it could be OK on a temporary basis. But it would reeeeally bite the big one if he got hurt after a month of hasty warm-ups for 3-4 appearances a week.
While Proctor obviously has sh@t the bed for us on several occasions, he has done a pretty decent job for us a fair amount of times also.
That said, I think it’ll be smart to trade him before his arm falls off.
“Cilppard was a top prospect prior to this season(he was ranked on a few top 100 lists) and Marquez is no slouch either. Horne projects to a be a top of the line starter if everything works out. If texas takes Hansen and Bard(both of whom suck) over Clippard and Marquez, well then I’d say they are stupid.”
Clippard rates as a back of the rotation starter at best. I like the guy but his stuff is fringe average, and if his control is off he’s very hittable. Marquez I’ve heard is an organizational guy, maybe a career as a long man at best.
Horne is not a front line starter, 3 at best. I guess we just disagree on this. If he becomes an ace I’ll apologize okay.
If you have a chance to get a great arm like Gagne to add to your pen for a stretch run, when your teams biggest weakness is the pen, and all you have to give up is a back of the rotation starter, you do it in my opinnion.
As for the sox prospects, Bowden is very similar to Horne in prospect status. And Masterson looks to have the stuff to be a solid relief pitcher. Throw in Hansen or Bard who still have promise(albeit very little left in hansen) and you have a decent package.
Still don’t think Boston will do anything though, figure they are just rasing the price of the yankees.
“According to the New York Daily News, the Yankees turned down a deal for Eric Gagne that centered around Double-A pitching prospect Alan Horne.”
again, feel free to second guess this at the end of the year, but i think this was the right call.
Horne plus more is just too steep for 20-30 innings.
i know people have their heart set on Gagne, but i would not make that deal.
Why would Texas be salivating over Craig Hansen? He has been getting lit up for most of the season in AAA. He’s not an “A” List prospect by any means.
The Red Sox have better pitching prospects than Hansen. Just not any who come from the metropolitan area with the hype surrounding him like Hansen.
‘Say he declines his $9M player’s option, the Mets pay him his $3M buyout & the Yanks offer him $9M thus a chance to make $12M total, a $4.5M raise from ‘07 which is 3X his ($1.5M) raise if he exercised his player’s option ($7.5M to $9M)? I can’t see Glavine declining $9M, accepting the $3M buyout & re-signing w/ the Mets for
Hughes, Chamberlain, and Kennedy are off the table?!
Can we get some more reports on this breaking news?
Jeez fix your blog man.
The gist of my post was if Glavine doesn’t want to return to the Mets next year, and the Yanks lose Clemens & Pettitte to retirement, would the Yanks go after Glavine? I’d say they should cuz who else is out there on the free agent market after this year as good as or better than Glavine? Don’t tell me Schilling who isn’t anymore.
Wang/ Hughes/ Chamberlain would be a nice front three in an ideal world, but is that realistic? You want to pin your hopes on a rookie (Chamberlain) & a kid who if back Sunday & in the rotation the rest of the way this year, will have a little over 10 career starts going into ‘08? Mussina as the #4 when he is probably a #5 now? What if Hughes and/ or Chamberlain are just #4 good or back to AAA awful?
The bottom line is the ‘08 Yanks need a #3 starter-good veteran to complement Wang, Hughes & Mussina w/ or w/o Chamberlain, Glavine or not.
Hey, Jeff NJ, from your lips to god’s ear.
I doubt Gagne is ever going to return to being the killer closer he was a few years ago, pre-surgery. Still would be an upgrade from Farnsworth or Proctor … but maybe not Milton.
Glavine in ‘08? No. As if nobody’s learned yet … the idea of throwing millions at a 40 year old pitcher is usually not a good one.
The writing’s on the wall: Proctor’s arm is shot. He was overused all of last season and was overused again at the beginning of this season. The extreme workload has taken its toll, we should deal him while we still can. Betemit would be a huge upgrade over Cairo on the bench, and has some decent upside. Dump Farnsworth, call up Joba, and fill Proctor’s spot with Gagne (if the price is right) or another reliever through a trade. If Cash can’t swing a trade for a reliever, bring up Edwar, Britton (if he has recovered) or Ohlendorf to fill his spot.
what are the odds of us getting paulie korneko? he makes 12 mil im sure, given that, it will not be too har to get him. he is a good right stick and a proven winner. i like phillips but konerko is a “real deal” bat.
Glavine would get lit up in the AL East, terrible idea.
I wouldn’t include Horne, Melky, or Gardener in a trade for Gagne.
here is Glavine’s deal:
“the deal includes a player option for 2008 worth $9M or a $3M buyout- + the option becomes guaranteed at a value of $9M with 160IP in 2007- + the value of the option rises to $10M with 170IP, $11M with 180IP, $12M with 190IP and $13M with 200IP or more- + he has the right to void the option if it becomes guaranteed-”
Glavine is likely to pitch at least 180 innings this season.
so he has $11M coming to him *guaranteed*.
right now he has an era of 4.51 in the NL, which would be about 4.7 for the Yankees.
he will be 42.
the Yankees would have to pay him at least $13M to get him to leave the Mets.
why on earth would the Yankees want to do that?
I wouldn’t be upset if we had to lose Gardner. He really doesn’t have any plus tools. He has decent speed and his defense is about average. Not sure about his arm to be honest. He has absolutely no power, and appears to be a singles hitter who will hit about .260 in the majors. His minor league numbers shows he is good at getting on base however that may be a tougher chore in the majors. Wouldn’t be a huge loss, he’s very replaceable.
http://mvn.com/milb-yankees/20.....lan-horne/
Someone who says Horne is a back of the rotation guy please explain what justifies him being a #5 starter. I can understand people willing to trade him to sure up what would be a dominating bullpen, but I would love to hear the logic behind Horne being a #5.
i think Proctor is finished as well and seeing as he is arb eligible after this season, his value is probably at its peak RIGHT now.
Betemit is more than a fair return.
Proctor is not nearly as good as some of you think he is. he had a good year this season, but it has definitely taken its toll on his arm. look at his strikeouts.
maybe if Torre wasn’t using him with 8 run leads against the Royals last year he would still be effective.
Ok, hmmmm. Proctor is average. That’s fine. But who replaces him???
They need a Gagne before they can ship out Proctor.
who is SALTY ?
“Horne plus more is just too steep for 20-30 innings.
i know people have their heart set on Gagne, but i would not make that deal.”
Because Gagne’s 20 innings will be 20 of the most important innings of the year. The difference between making and missing the playoffs. The difference between a title and nothing.
I think thats a big deal.
They don’t need a Gagne to replace an average relief pitcher.
Its already pretty clear who is replacing Proctor. Its going to be Chamberlain.
They didn’t move him to the bullpen to pitch for Scranton. Most likely, he will be in the Bronx by the weekend.
Here’s the funniest thing on this blog in weeks:
“Make Igawa a reliever. He’s funky and could get lefties out.”
That’s hilarious.
Salty is Jarrod Saltalamacchia. He was in a trade for Teixeira.
this may be crazy but i feel that tyler clippard will turn into a john maine type pitcher in three years. He has some issues throwing strikes but his “stuff” isnt that bad.
“Ok, hmmmm. Proctor is average. That’s fine. But who replaces him???”
it’s not that he is average, it’s that i think he is headed for a major injury.
he could be replaced with Britton, Ramirez, or Joba. or maybe Cashman makes a deal for another reliever no one has thought about.
i wasn’t crazy about moving Joba to the pen, but looking at the asking prices for relief help, i am starting to see some of the rationale. Alan Horne for 8 weeks of Gagne? no thanks.
Hey my 3 year old has a “funkY” delivery, can he be a Yankee reliever?!
Lanny,
I understand the infatuation with Eric Gagne and the possible 20 innings he would pitch. No doubt they would be an improvement from Proctor/Farnsworth. However, being back in the race, what if only 15 of those innings are considered “holds”. What if the other 5 are blown? Banking on Gagne coming and being a total shut down option is asking a lot. No matter who it is, it’s asking a lot.
Trading Alan Horne and others is an extremely steep package. Horne alone is a gift for a rental player who isn’t a Type A after the season.
“Because Gagne’s 20 innings will be 20 of the most important innings of the year. The difference between making and missing the playoffs. The difference between a title and nothing.”
wow, you know this already? what else is going to happen?
So big deal they give Horne. For a chance for a title I don’t mind giving up a good prospect. Did we regret it when we gave up Jake Westbrook for David Justice? And Westbrook has turned into a solid 3-4 starter.
Bloomy, exactly.
Parting with a lot of potential for immediate returns makes sense (IMHO) only if we are leading and are not dependent on other team’s help. It just doesn’t make sense to me that we should mortgage our future for a present, when the present is not entirely dependent on our performance alone.
You don’t think those 30 innings in the 7-8th inning that Gagne pitches will be important innings????
Have you watched baseball ever?
Or you comfortable with the cast of characters there now?
from all this talk it sounds as if the Yanks have the tope 15 prospects in the game! if you don’t think that texas can find a similar deal or close to similar deal like horne you’re crazy. i would be shocked if they accepted something less than that.
in boston, they think their prospects (mentioned earlier) are just as good if not better than the 5 or 6 we mention here.
let’s hope cash wakes up and gives up something (other than money) to get something.
By the way, Bloomy’s post about Westbrook is exactly on target.
I must have missed the memo that said play for 2010 and hold onto every prospect and Horne will be Johan Santana.
There is a reason you have a great system. To help the big club. With reinforcements and by trades.
Lanny, chill out about Igawa. His strikeout totals are an indication he can fool hitters, especially lefties.
I think, given a spring training, he can be a decent LOOGY. Is Mike Myers fooling anybody these days? Is Sean Henn reliable?
He has three years left on his contract, and is likely untradeable. Might as well do something with him.
I agree with Kevin NY. We can’t just say forget about the 2007 season, not making the playoffs is okay, we’ll just make the 2010 playoffs.
Oh wait, missing the 2007 playoffs is not okay!
keep posting,
Boston thinks they have the minor league pitching they have because they’re Red Sox fans.
They think Coco Crisp, JD Drew and Julio Lugo are respectable, fine all around, winning baseball players.
They also turned Craig Hansen into a train wreck.
Let them think their pitching prospects can compete. It makes it all the more entertaining.
I just find it inconceivable that we would let a chance to acquire one of the games best relievers go because of Alan Horne. A guy every scout says may become a #3 starter.
I don’t think Cashman will let that happen.
Bloomy,
To your point, you’re right, we didn’t regret it that we gave up Westbrook. However, times have changed. The new Yankee philosophy is to cultivate your own pitchers, reduce the risk of signing a Carl Pavano or Kevin Brown, and save money so that when a younger star comes along you have the ability and flexibility to sign him or even trade for him.
“There is a reason you have a great system. To help the big club. With reinforcements and by trades”
True. Expect that the trade has to be even or in our favor.
Terrible news Yankees fans.
The Red Sox have struck first and hit hard.
Joel Piniero to Cards for PTBNL.
“For a chance for a title I don’t mind giving up a good prospect. Did we regret it when we gave up Jake Westbrook for David Justice”
this is a pretty biased argument. you picked one scenario that worked out and used it. there are plenty of counter-examples.
also, there is only so much a middle reliever can contribute in 2 months. we are talking about 25-30 innings, tops. Justice was an everyday player.
and the 2000 Yankees were a lot better than the 2007 Yankees. they needed a bat to complement their excellent pitching staff.
the 2007 Yankees could *easily* still miss the playoff even with Gagne.
it’s apples and oranges.
Pete:
Or anyone else…
What are the thoughts on Jason Jones… he’s in AA and his stats are pretty impressive. He has walked only 7 guys in 100+ innings, his WHIP is less than 1, has a great ERA…just not high strikeouts. I never hear anything about him… is his stuff just good minor league level or what?
Or how about Scott Patterson — he looks like a big righty reliever with a high K rate out of the independent leagues
Solution to all the problems (via the San Diego Union-Tribune):
The Yankees recently demoted left-handed pitcher Kei Igawa, for whom the Padres bid $10 million last offseason. The Padres view Igawa as a potential “buy-lowâ€? acquisition, but the Yankees aren’t making him readily available.
ESPN fluff or truth? Rumor Central
“Red Sox, Brewers, Mets are the favorites
Jul 31 – With just a few hours left before the trade deadline, it appears the Texas Rangers will trade closer Eric Gagne to either the Red Sox, Brewers or the Mets, baseball sources told ESPN’s Buster Olney.
But the Brewers and Mets are skeptical that they’re the front-runners, which means the Red Sox might end up landing the former Cy Young winner.
The Rangers are looking at prospects who can play center field, and Olney reports the Brewers are dangling Tony Gwynn Jr.
The Yankees are also having conversations with the Rangers about Gagne, but the Rangers may make a deal with either their division rival in Boston, or with their cross-town rival in Queens.
The Red Sox need Gagne, at a time when set-up man Mike Timlin is hurt. Milwaukee’s bullpen has been struggling of late — closer Francisco Cordero and set-up men Derrick Turnbow and Scott Linebrink combined for a 15.00 ERA last week, with an 0-4 record. “
the 2000 yankees won 87 games. We are on pace to win 88 games according to coolstandings. Its not apple and oranges, its apples and apples
We can do better than Gagne if we’re going to trade Horne for him.
Fooling hitters and getting outs are completely different.
And coming out of the bullpen with men on is completely different. You really want Igawa right now in those situations?
Where he has to throw strikes?
He can rot in the minors for all I care.
SJ 44 is right. I like Proctor appears to be a good guy, but as a pitcher he is decent at best.. He has never I say that again NEVER converted a save opportunitty..
do you believe that?
The yanks would be better Weds by simply getting Betemit from the dodgers for proctor and selling Kyle and myers for anything they could get.. they would brng up chamberlain and any combo of veras, britton, ramirez, etc.. The good news is Torre would be forced to use the younger guys who I beleive given a chance would be better then what they have.. Remember what they have is horrible one of the 5 worst pens in all of baseball……
A proven loser is not better then an unproven young guy with some potential…
…,
Jones is a Carlos Silva type pitcher. He has outstanding control. He pitches high 80s to low 90s with his fastball. Plus slider, avg change, avg split. He won’t overpower, but he has the ability to consistently get hitters out. He probably projects to a #5. His stats are pretty ridiculous though.
Damn, 100 mph by JaBuh?!!!! That is nuts.
I’d imagine that if the Red Sox are willing to pick up his bonuses, the Yankees would have no problem doing that too.
In terms of ability to trade for this guy, the Red Sox might get him but they are not necessarily at an advantage. Perhaps Cashman is just being smart and holding on to the prospects because of both Gagne’s contract situation and Cash’s desire to build for the future.
Still a few hours to go and remember, Gagne has to approve a trade to the Sox.
I guess people like hmmm would rather take the chances on prospects than going for a chance to win a title.
Stop making Horne out to be an ace starter.
He’d be lucky to be Westbrook and there is no one here who would redo that trade for Justice.
My point is that every “fan base” will overvalue their own. Whether or not our group is better than theirs, to each his own. They’re thinking the same thing as we are about all our players (”Ha! They think they can get by with Andy Phillips!”).
We can’t hold onto EVERY prospect we have, regardless if some flame out and some turn solid.
hmm, yes, David Justice is a bat that was needed to compliment an excellent pitching staff.
so cant you turn that around and say that Eric Gagne would be part of a bullpen ugrade that would compliment a devastating lineup?
am i saying Gagne is the answer? i think he’d help, but if the yankees got another reliever other than gagne to help fortify the pen, like a Damaso Marte, it’d be just the same. the idea is to make your team better.
can we all remember we are talking about Alan Horne, or a player of his type? these guys are nice pieces, 3-4-5 guys, but organizations dont ever hold on to EVERY prospect.
you need a balance of homegrown talent and imported pieces to win championships, and we certainly have the pieces in the system now to absorb a trade or 2 to bring in some imports to help this ball club now, while also keeping in tact a farm system to help feed the production line for the future.
“You don’t think those 30 innings in the 7-8th inning that Gagne pitches will be important innings????”
sure, they are important.
but you said it was the difference between a title and no title, and looking at this team, it isn’t.
they are more than one middle reliever away from being the best team in baseball.
The div would be over if the Sox put Gagne with Papelbon and Okajima.
SJ44 calls it right, it is time to remove the parts that have failed in the past, very questionable for the present, have have very little if any purpose for the future…..Maybe the timetable is being put on fast forward, but it is time to cut bait as he put it….Proctor, Farnsworth move them out…I still believe Bruney can work out…Last years audition proved that, but a change in his approach to pitching needs to be straighten out…..Gagne would be a great setup ( 8th inning ) guy, but at a reasonable price in talent exchange….$$$ NOT AN ISSUE, buttrading Horne is….Even Klippard might be a stretch , however he’s expendible, for the Yanks have stockpiled great pitching talent at all levels….So now it’s time to spin some of the excess off……Where’s Randy 1 been……
ESPN is a colossal joke. To hear them talk, the GM’s aren’t making any moves until they check in with them as they sit in their studios and speculate. Hilarious.
“they are more than one middle reliever away from being the best team in baseball.”
You’re right. They’re two away. gagne and joba.
Thanks Jordan -
I was just scanning the Trenton stats and he stood out to me and is only 24… I thought that walks statistic was ridiculous.
I’d take a Carlos Silva-ish guy as a back end starter any day… maybe work on a sinking fastball, make it nasty.
D Bone:
The key word is “if”. Theo Epstein loves to sit on his hands.
From ESPN The Magazine’s Buster Olney
The Dodgers and Yankees have agreed in principle on a trade that would send reliever Scott Proctor to the Dodgers for infielder Wilson Betemit. The Dodgers have a 5.61 bullpen ERA since the all-star break, have been in on a number of relievers but zeroed in on Proctor over the last 24 hours. The Yankees view Betemit as another first-base/DH/bench option for this year, but a potential third-base replacement for Alex Rodriguez next year.
Gagne to the sux would be a waste in my opinion.. they have a great 8th and 9th inning guy. there starters go long as is. yeah is gagne way better then delcarmen and timlin(may be hurt) sure but I just think ti is not a big issue for the sux.
do not worry what the sux do… piniero was traded to STL.. My point is if Piniero could be traded(he sucks) then anyone can be traded..Myers is a FA at the end of the yr. and his contract is nothing.. Kyle has 1.25 yrs left on his contract probably about $7 mill. they can trade him..
the yanks have many solutions under there noses in SWB and Trenton, I know that is blasphemy for someone to say that using young guys is not any more of a gamble then using overpaid washed out players like procotr, kyle, myers, villone, and on and on………..
betemit helps the bench which is not as important in the AL but gives them power, flexibility, and a legit player…
…,
From what I read last night, he leads the Eastern league in WHIP. Only Clay Bucholz was ahead of him, but Clay has been promoted since. Jones has better control than Marquez and Horne. It’s pretty impressive.
I agree with you 100%. A solid sinking fastball and a little more work on his changeup with his plus slider and he would be a solid major league option for many teams in the future.
Proctor for Betemit is okay by me. Not great but okay.
The day Wilson Betemit replaces Alex Rodriguez is the day Theo Epstein takes majority ownership control of the Yankees.
The Yanks are already offered Horne for Gagne and Texas refused, Cash isn’t going to improve on that offer (only way he could would be by including Kennedy or Melky, which isn’t happening) so either Texas lower their demands or Gagne stays put, I can’t see Gagne to the Sox or Mets, they don’t seem to have anyone comparable to Horne, what I mean by that is a very good prospect who isn’t quite good enough to be untouchable. Sox won’t move Lester, Bucholz, Ellsbury and the Mets won’t move Gomez, Fernandez, or Milledge so…Horne or they simply keep Gagne, I think.
I am having a hard time believing Gagne is the one “piece” missing for this team to make a title run.
When I read that, it tells me folks haven’t watched this team too much this year. This team has a lot of holes and a Gagne acquisition would fill only one of them.
Comparing this year’s team to the 2000 team IS apples and oranges. The 2000 team was a defending World Championship team that needed a bat.
This year’s team has many more holes and busted out in the playoffs last year. Comparing regular season win projections is fools gold.
The 2007 Yankees wouldn’t win a game, head to head, against the 2000 team.
Horne? If the Yankees truly value him in the same catagory as Hughes, Kennedy and Chamberlain, then you can’t trade him for Gagne. That is, if they really value him that way and its not just trade talk.
Perhaps, the Yankees feel Chamberlain, Hughes and Giambi returning, along with Betemit, makes them a better team down the stretch. Maybe that’s why they are hesitant to give up Horne in a Gagne deal.
“so cant you turn that around and say that Eric Gagne would be part of a bullpen ugrade that would compliment a devastating lineup?”
i do WANT gagne. i don’t want that to be misunderstood.
i just think Horne + more prospects is too much.
if they could get it done with Marquez or Clippard, i would do it.
i just think Horne is a notch above those guys.
you guys seem to think he isn’t as good as i do.
that’s your opinion. that’s fine.
we disagree over how good Horne will be, i like him more than you guys. agree to disagree.
I understand that Betemit can help us but that being said, We subtracted from our bullpen instead of adding to it? Hmm Interesting day so far.
Proctor for Betemit is huge, nice.
SJ44 said:
“They don’t need a Gagne to replace an average relief pitcher.
Its already pretty clear who is replacing Proctor. Its going to be Chamberlain.
They didn’t move him to the bullpen to pitch for Scranton. Most likely, he will be in the Bronx by the weekend.”
I agree completely. I am eager for the deadline to come and go so I don’t have to read wild speculation about nonsensical trades.
One of the more inferior yankee blogs actually posted and defended trading Melky for Gagne.
The key though is whether Torre will use Chamberlain or not. I’m not sold on another minor league phenom who throws heat with zero big league experience, but I certainly would love to see him get a legitimate shot.
BJ
The Yankees grew discouraged about their chances of landing Rangers closer Eric Gagne on Tuesday morning, an indication that the reliever could be headed to one of three other teams trying to acquire him — the Red Sox, Brewers or Mets — or nowhere at all.
The Mets and Brewers are among the 12 teams that can acquire Gagne without his permission, according to major-league sources. The Red Sox are not.
The Mets, who are unwilling to trade Carlos Gomez, also are pessimistic about their chances. Meanwhile, two of the Rangers’ other potential center-field targets — the Red Sox’s David Murphy and Brewers’ Tony Gwynn Jr. — might not be everyday players.
For the Red Sox, time is running short.
Their chances of landing of White Sox right fielder Jermaine Dye are fading, according to sources. And, with the non-waiver deadline fast approaching, the Sox need to not only reach a trade agreement with the Rangers, but also persuade Gagne to waive his no-trade clause to Boston, perhaps by guaranteeing his remaining $3.65 million in potential bonuses for games finished.
Even if they did that, Gagne still might balk at the deal, preferring to close rather than set up for Jonathan Papelbon.
Foxsports.com
Proctor for Betemit trade was just announced.
“I am having a hard time believing Gagne is the one “pieceâ€? missing for this team to make a title run.
When I read that, it tells me folks haven’t watched this team too much this year. This team has a lot of holes and a Gagne acquisition would fill only one of them.”
I would actually favor moving a vizcaino at this point over some of our younger talent. His trade value will never be higher, and it is unlikely he will continue to experience the kind of success he has had over the short term. His career unfortunately says something else. I hope I am wrong, but when all is done, I believe these past few weeks of success will be nothing more than a blip on the radar. Move him now while he has value. He cannot be relied upon in a playoff push unfortunately.
BJ
IMO proctor/betemit simply clears a pen spot for Joba while Betemit will replace Basak on the current roster. No huge plans for Betemit.
I’m not totally sold on a Betemit for Proctor deal, but I agree with the sentiment that it’s time to move on from him. He’s not someone that cannot be pretty easily replaced.
Now the real prize comes. Banishing Kyle Farnsworth to Colorado for a PTBNL.
Are you kidding? The BULLPEN, more so, LAT EINNING RELIEF, is the LARGEST HOLE this team has by far. Remember that 2000 team? You went into the 7th inning with a lead and it was game over. that’s why they needed a bat.
as proved last friday, they can score in bunches, and with the glut of 1B/DH/OF types they have on the roster (and coming back – Giambino), their offense and defense are both fine unless they move someone and make a BIG move (not happeneing).
So where is their other glaring need? Rotation? With Hughes coming back MAYBE they need a 5th…maybe not. Not as glaring.
That leaves the ‘pen. Yes, two arms would be nice (and a quality lefty would work, like a Marte).
But if you don’t think that a Gagne type (obviously, when healthy) would help, then you’re nuts.
I’ve watched or been to probably every game this year and never felt “safe’ in the 7th/8th with a lead unless we wer epounding the sh*t out of the other teams pitching. With Gagne, that changes.
I think a bullpen that has Mariano, Vizcaino, Chamberlain, and Gagne is pretty nasty. I heard rumors like Clippard, Karstens and a lower level prospect for Gagne. I think its somewhat reasonable. Karstens and Clippard are basically 5th starters, Clippard has more upside but if he cant hit corners he will get shelled. I think I would pull the trigger on this deal. Thoughts?
proctor for betemit- terrible trade. betemit is not good, has never shown any promise of fulfilling his potential, you taken a weakness on the team and made it weaker but trading the one guy who ate innings.
Funny to me that Proctor goes right back to where he came from, the Dodgers.
I hope Proctor has plenty of success in LA. He seems like a good guy.
ESPN is reporting the Yankees and Dodgers agreed in principle to trade Proctor for Betemit. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=2955753
Why the infatuation with Betemit is beyond me? Why you surrender Proctor for him really baffles.
Donnie- Your saying Proctor is good? He gets shelled every day out. He has not thrown well at all this year. This is the guy that had a bonfire with his uniform. He doesnt have the mental make up to pitch here IMO
If A-Rod opts out and leaves, Betemit is his replacement.
If A-Rod opts out and leaves, Betemit is his replacement.
“Karstens and Clippard are basically 5th starters, Clippard has more upside but if he cant hit corners he will get shelled. I think I would pull the trigger on this deal. Thoughts?”
yes, the yankees would do that trade, but apparently the rangers would not.
look, if the rangers asked for Melky or Horne, they won’t take Clippard and Karstens.
Looks like Bruney is safe on the team.
ESPNews is reporting…
A little piece of Joe Torre just died inside when word just reached him that Scott Proctor is no longer available for him to drive into the ground.
If A-Rod leaves and Betemit is his replacement, we are screwed. A-Rod for the guy that we got for Scott Proctor, who many hate here. Seems like a good deal….NOT
Betemit is a solid player with a lot of potential talent. While Proctor has been good from time to time I am under the impression they are either making another deal for a reliever, or expect Joba to take Proctor’s spot.
Proctor should consider himself lucky getting to move to LA. Too bad my company won’t trade me out there, I’d go in a heartbeat.
Getting rid of Proctor does not make the pen weaker for one reason Proctor is not very good. he can be replaced by about 10 guys in the yankee system today!!!!!!!!!
Proctor has NEVER converted a save NEVER.. He gives up HR’s at a larming pace. The guy most bummed by this trade is manny ramirez he loves proctor. I wonder if he will still send proctor a christmas card.
for proctor at some point hopefully by age 30 it will be more then saying he throws hard and has potential.. the guy has been here over 3 yrs. move on..
next say bye to kyle nad myers and I will be satisfied.. if they do not get gagne I am fine with it as long as they keep there top talent in house.
Good deal. It’s what we should have done with Sturtze. Buy low, sell high.
Betemit can slug, check out his post-ASB numbers. He’s decent enough at 3B, too. Not an every day player, but he’s better than Cairo or Basak.
So what will Joe do now? Pick his nose more?
yes, i beleive he is good. i think he gets takin for granted. torre uses him everday. he does get outs for us. sure he gave upa couple homers the past couple of weeks but everyone slumps. my question is now brian bruney will be working the 6th and 7th everyday? kyle farnsworth? some minor leaguer who obsiously cant handle the pressure yet ( ramierez) or another guy who has never thrown a pitch in the majors?
General question to anyone:
Why does anyone bother relaying whatever Ken Rosenthal reports? Bob Costas has more reliable sources than Ken Rosenthal.
I guess Basak is back to the minors when Phil Franchise comes up.
Funny to me that Proctor goes right back to where he came from, the Dodgers.
Yeah, ironic
Betemit has 10 homers this year. I guess he has some upside and we can hope he lives up to it.
So long scotty p
trading Proctor now is called selling high.
Betemit is a 25 year old with an OPS of .833 in Dodger Stadium. he is a switch hitter who plays every infield position and the Yankees control him for the next 2-3 years.
this is a solid trade. it’s not incredible, but it’s not “terrible” either.
there is nothing Proctor does that Britton can’t do.
the Yankees are getting younger and more flexible.
I think we made out with that trade. Procter looks like he will have a serious surgical procedure done to his arm very soon. Also, his walk to strikeout ratio isn’t getting any better either. Betemit is better than some people think. He can play the infield and the outfield in a pinch. He’s better hitter than people give him credit for. Betemit has been a bench player for most of the season and put up those numbers. I’d take that for a bench player who starts occasionally.
Now we need to get rid of Farns and trade for a reliever.
If they Yankees add Gagne, they are undoubtedly trade deadline winners. Who else is adding a Phil Hughes to their staff, a Joba and Gagne to their pen. I wonder what we will get for Farnsworthless
Betemit looks like he takes a good amount of walks, that combined with good power potential makes him a decent prospect.
Bruney is going to SWB. He is pitching terrible…
Please god get rid of Kyle…PLEASE
Did hear all of those groan? That’s hitters in the American League upset at hearing that Scott Proctor’s won’t be throwing batting practice anymore to them.
I don’t think Betemit is the second coming of David Justice, but maybe this opens the door for a full Gagne push or brining up the kid to the bullpen.
Thanks for the memories Scotty!
You think the Rockies will send us a 12 pack of Coors Light for Farnsworthless? Or should would not get greedy and accept a 6 pack?
Yankees to get infielder Betemit from L.A. for reliever Proctor
ESPN.com news services
Updated: July 31, 2007, 12:22 PM ET
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The Dodgers and Yankees have agreed in principle on a trade that would send reliever Scott Proctor to the Dodgers for infielder Wilson Betemit, sources told ESPN The Magazine’s Buster Olney.
The Dodgers, who have a 5.61 bullpen ERA since the All-Star break, have been in on a number of trade discussions involving relievers but zeroed in on Proctor over the last 24 hours.
The Yankees view Betemit as another first-base/DH/bench option for this year, and a potential third-base replacement for Alex Rodriguez next year.
Betemit is batting .231 with 10 home runs and 26 RBIs this season off the Dodgers’ bench. Proctor is 2-5 with a 3.81 ERA, and his 54 1/3 innings out of the Yankees’ bullpen are tied for fourth-most among AL relievers.
so does that mean betemit is going to play everyday? the guy is batting .230. seriously i don’t kow why the yanks are obbsessed with this guy. anyway, my point is, say what you want about proctor he is our most dependable reliever ( other than moe of course). who is gong to pitch those innings? villone? briton is doing well in AAA (and he is hurt btw) good for him. we have a bunch of guys that throw 5, 6 innnings a game ( clemens, mussina and hughes probably) and we just traded the only guy who eates innings. this makes no sense. now we have to give up horne ( at least maybe more ) to get gagne.
Proctor down, Farnsworth and Myers to go.
Looks like we won’t be getting Gagne tho.
Betemit not good? He has a higher OPS than half our starting players.
He walks, 50% of his hits are for extra bases, and he has good defense. Proctor is a walking hospital ward waiting to happen with the way Torre abuses him. The fact we are getting a respectable player for him is amazing.
why Proctor was traded – courtesy of NoMaas
http://www.nomaas.org/images/proctor_arm.jpg
Donnie: Batting Average is one of the worst hitting statistics you can cite. Please try again.
Agree, this a good deal, a worn out 30 year old reliever for a versatile 25 year old with plenty of upside.
I see Theo Epstein pulling off another coup and nabbing BOTH Dye and Gagne before the deadline today. Don’t know why, it’s just a strong feeling I have…
Oh, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the Sox didn’t have to give up anybody decent to acquire either player. It’s going to be just like the Schilling deal a few years back…
Why teams continue to stick it to the Yanks (in terms of who they’re asking for in trades) and give the Red Sox sweetheart deals is truly baffling to me!
Any idea what the two young lefties the yanks had dealt few years back are doing now?? I forget their names but I think one went to the Reds and was in the majors for sometime and the other guy was doing ok for Oakland couple of years back…
Just before a Gagne deal, pleeeeeze …..Farnsworth and Myers or Henn to Pirates for Damaso Marte.
After a Gagne deal, Cashman is a hero as long as he doesn’t give up top rated pitching.
The question is, Does the club have a real chance of making the playoffs or not….The bullpen has lost maybe 20 games this season in th 6-7-8- innings, give or take a few….If you can resolve that issue with Gagne without giving up top shelf talent, you do it….Hughes should and will fill the glaring hole in the rotation ( although Mussina is an issue ) and Giambi provides a power stick as well as a presence in the lineup….RH power stick, I guess Torre isn’t sold on Duncan, is still a major hole, as lefthanders are killing them…..Besides it’s time to clean the shelves of dusty shit that has accumilated as of late ( Farnsworth, Meyers & even Proctor )…..
Betemit is 27
What I’ve been reading is not that the Yankees offered, but that Texas asked for Horne and the Yanks turned them down.
I would not be opposed to trading Horne, but I think you need to get someone of the caliber of David Justice in return, and frankly, Gagne isn’t in that category. Especially for a guy that is, under no circumstances coming back next season.
Oh, and I’d like to get some of what people are smoking when they think the Yankees are 2 middle relievers away from being the best team in baseball.
Branden Clausen, Brad Halsey?
Kaj,
You got the e-mail from ESPN. Must be official now, lol. I feel good about the deal because I think we can replace Proctor internally. Betemit sounds like a good young player, too. How many 1B/DH/bench players do we have now?
If A-Rod opts out and leaves, Betemit is his replacement. ????…are you completely OUT OF YOUR MIND ???…IMO, A-Rod is so far above this Betemit that you should not ever be allowed to call him a replacement….That is a total joke ! Betemit, I am sure, strikes real fear in opposing AL Pitchers, JUST LIKE A-Rod and also has a real shot to hit 800 HRs in his career, right ? Everybody needs to settle down and realize that A-Rod is NOT going anywhere. No matter how senile and NOT in control the Boss is, he will NEVER let him go…..all IMO !
Blackaccord:
Brad Halsey and Eric Milton are the names you’re looking for.
Gagne is going to the Brewers.
jerkface- batting average is irrelvant? so im supposed to ignore .230? lets bring back steve balboni his ba was low too but he had power so then he must have been good.
Gino- Halsey and Clausen
Assuming we sign Gagne, can someone confirm that we’ll get two draft picks if he walks after the season?
Proctor for Betemit is a good deal for us. Betemit is a good young player that they will experiment with at first base. This means: Giambi = DH, and the outfield will rotate based on who the pitcher is. Lots of flexibility if Betemit can play first – I like it!
Any idea what the two young lefties the yanks had dealt few years back are doing now?? I forget their names but I think one went to the Reds and was in the majors for sometime and the other guy was doing ok for Oakland couple of years back…
We sent claussen to the reds for Boone, hes injured and looks like hes on his way out of majors, if not already.
Not sure what Oakland player your talking about, Lilly maybe?
the Pirates reportedly want a young, impact bat for Marte, because he is signed through next season at a reasonable salary.
if BC is relunctant to give up no-tools Brett Gardner in a deal (reportedly), I doubt he’ll give up enough to get Marte.
only if he’s a type A free agent – which he isn’t. That determination is based on the previous three years of service.
Well, we won several championships with Scott Brosius playing third, so I think we could potentially get by with Betemit at third (as long as the rest of the team was “right”). Not that I want to see A-Rod go, but there is historical precedent for the Yanks winning with a workmanlike third baseman!
Betemit is replacing NOBODY except the possibility of Cairo being DFA’d. Who doesn’t like a switch hitting utility player with a little pop in his bat ?
Now, for the bullpen getting fixed ……
Baseball Reference, Wikipedia, and Dodgers website have Betemit as 25. ESPN is wrong.
*Betemit sounds like a good young player, too. How many 1B/DH/bench players do we have now?*
My sentiments, exactly.
Originally, I was opposed to saying “Goodbye” to Proctor, but he has not gotten any better and was not helping, so I guess moving him on is a good move. It sounds like Betemit is a younger version of Cairo, someone to have for next year. But really, what do we do with Phillips/Mientkiewicz (when he gets back)/Cairo/Giambi/anyone else? combo at first base?????
“I think we made out with that trade. Procter looks like he will have a serious surgical procedure done to his arm very soon.”
to me, this is the key to the trade.
it’s not that i think Betemit is THAT great, it’s that i think Proctor is hurt.
his velocity is down, his strikeouts are down, his walks are up.
Assuming we sign Gagne, can someone confirm that we’ll get two draft picks if he walks after the season?
Depends on two things. If he is listed as a type A free agent, which he might not be since they count last year and this year in determining that.
Also to get draft picks he has to be signed before the arbitration deadline, or afterwards and only if we offer him arbitration. And gagne won’t accept it because he wants to close and would want more than a one year contract.
Does that help at all?
Proctor in 7 games since ASB
6.2 IP 4 ER 13 hits 5 BB and only 3 K and 4 HR allowed
he is spent
Britton or Scott Williamson can do better
so we traded a used part for a decent bench player who can start if need be and has some power and versatility
I am happy
Now just dump Farnsworth – no way he sets foot in that locker room today!
Well, we won several championships with Scott Brosius playing third, so I think we could potentially get by with Betemit at third (as long as the rest of the team was “right�). Not that I want to see A-Rod go, but there is historical precedent for the Yanks winning with a workmanlike third baseman!
The difference is that they had a lot of other good players to make up for a weaker third baseman. The Yankees don’t have Tino Martinez or Paul O`Neill anymore do they?
Donnie: YES. You are supposed to ignore his .230 bavg! Focus on his .359 OBP and .474 SLG, which means he gets on base about as much as Hideki Matsui, and more than Cano or Melky or Andy Phillips. And he outslugs our entire outfield and half our infield.
116 OPS+ which makes him about our 5th best hitter.
The only players on our team hitting for more power than ‘bench player wilson betemit’ are :
Jorge Posada
Hideki Matsui
and
Alex Rodriguez
Betemit is a great pickup.
The difference is that they had a lot of other good players to make up for a weaker third baseman. The Yankees don’t have Tino Martinez or Paul O`Neill anymore do they?
Well in fairness those two guys weren’t exactly superstars, especially towards the end of their stay in NY 00-01. It was more of a team chemistry type of thing.
“The Yankees don’t have Tino Martinez or Paul O`Neill anymore do they?”
Ahhh…True, so true…They are missed!!!
Sometimes, batting average is irrelevant. Pat Burrell would be a good example.
They traded a middle relief pitcher, who has been AWFUL Post-AS Break, for a utility player with some pop, who is also a SH.
If you are the Yankees, you make that deal every day of the week.
Let me put it to you another way……The Yankees have a one run lead against the Red Sox, the winner of the game goes to the playoffs or World Series, and Scott Proctor is on the mound.
How confident are you he can get the ball to Mo? Me? I have ZERO confidence he can get the job done. That’s why you make that trade.
As the season winds down, they are going to have to win the close, low scoring games. To do so, you need bridges to Mariano who don’t give up home runs and walks in every appearance. Its why they need to remake the bullpen and why Joba Chamberlain will be in NY by the weekend.
At this point, I’d rather take my chances with Joba than with Bruney, Proctor or Farnsworth.
LOL, I like how people go nuts when someone mentions Betemit or any other player as A-Rod’s possible replacement.
cj
July 31st, 2007 at 12:37 pm
Gagne is going to the Brewers.
NOT TRUE !!!
…newsflash….cj is a moron….
http://johnsterling.blogspot.c.....scott.html
Hate to say it, but… according to baseball-reference.com
SCOTT DOESN’T CLIMB UP OUT OF A HOLE. Twelve times this year he has thrown a 3-0 pitch. All 12 times, it was ball four. Lifetime, he’s 35 out of 36.
SCOTT FLUBS THE MONEY PITCH: He’s faced 15 batters this year with a 3-2 count. Twelve of them walked. Two struck out. One hit a home run. Lifetime, on a full count, one in 10 hits a home run, and twice as many walk as strike out.
IN CLOSE GAMES, SCOTT MELTS: When the game is tied or within one run, opposing batters hit their highest against him (.354), record their highest on-base percentage (.438) against him, and also their highest slugging percentage (.631) against him. He is at his worst.
So why does Joe save him for those moments?
StandingO’Neill – Good point…and that’s what I was getting at to begin with…With the right TEAM makeup, you can afford to have some guys who are simply solid rather than being superstars.
KAJ, are you an idiot? No one is saying he will replace A Rod’s production, but if he leaves, who will we get to play 3b? Cairo everyday? Lowell to a multiyear deal? Don’t be a moron.
And donnie, BA is a luck-based stat that doesn’t tell us much about his value as a player. OPS, OPS+, EqA, WARP3, etc. His OPS is .833, OPS+ is 116, RC/27 of 5.88…Cairo has an OPS of 72, RC/27 of 3.07…Phillips has an OPS+ of 107 and RC/27 of 5.08…I don’t even need to point out Basak’s stats…Melky has an OPS+ of 104…Damon OPS+ 88…this guy is a huge upgrade.
Betemit is young, has power, is a switch hitter, is cheap, and plays solid defense at several infield positions, he is a valuable player, and this was a very good trade.
It’s essentially Joba and Betemit vs. Proctor and Basak…it’s a no brainer.
Nieves & Cairo gone..Molina & Betemit in……You have to view this as a serious improvement……Now move Farns and bring in Gagne….That would be a very serious improvement….Hughes, Chamberlain ,Giambi….October run ready….Still need a power stick from the Right side….Duncan I guess isn’t the answer in Torre’s eyes..
i think burrel is terrible too. anyway, our bullpen was terrible before and now its worse. i think betemit will be ok actually. cant see the yankees obsession with him but he is better than cairo. the suggestions i have heard to replace the innings are not too logical.
williamson? no thanks he is terrible
britton? in aaa all year and now all of a sudden going to give us big innings? he is also hurt
edwar? great in aaa but obviously cant handle the show now. professionals arent suppose to have mental bnreakdowns after one bad gaem. i dont trsust him in a pennant race.
joba?- obviously a fute stud but now he is all of a sudden gonna gives us important innings out of the pen after only have 10 or so aaa innings and no major league innings?
gagne? now we have to get him. hopefully it wont cost too much
If we don’t get Gagne (and Dotel not an option) are there any other trade options for middle relief? I too hope Farnsworth leaves, but that leaves two men down in the bullpen. I’m happy with Joba coming up, but it would be nice to have some experience in the pen as well, apart from Mo and the Junkerballer.
Proctor’s career line against:
Boston – 29.1 IP 8.28 ERA
LAA – 14.1 IP 4.40 ERA
Detroit – 5.2 IP 9.53 ERA
Cleveland – 12.2 IP 2.84 ERA
if the Yankees made the playoffs, these are the teams we are looking at.
i liked Proctor, but i think the yankees are getting rid of him at the right time.
Proctor this year vs Boston – 2 losses, 8 games pitched, 5.2 IP, 9 hits, 11 runs 8 earned, 2 HR’s allowed, 5 BB, 2 K’s. In 2006 he gave up 11 runs in 15.2 IP vs Boston.
absolutely terrible and a big reason he is gone in my opinion.
His numbers versus the Angels are awful as well
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/pl.....jbOZeFCLcF
This is a big win for Cashman and the Yanks.
I’m looking forward to NoMaas’ update, which will surely be a picture of Torre weeping as Proctor and ‘Farnsy’ are booted off the team.
I wish Proctor the best, I feel bad for him, Torre ruined what might have been a promising career. As for Farnsworth, good riddance.
Well, I think Chad Qualls, Zach Greinke, Ryan Franklin, Russ Springer, Chad Cordero, Matt Thornton,…..those are the ones that come to mind.
We do have Jim Brower, and Chris Britton in the minors. Oh yeah, Chris Britton did do well pitching for the Orioles last year.
Proctor will serve up a dinger to Bonds tomorrow in his first outing wearing the Dodger Blue…..Can hear Vinny Scully now…..
I said this last night but I’ll say it again…Get Joakim Soria from the Royals! I’d feel much better giving up a decent prospect for a guy like that rather than an older, oft-injured rent-a-player like Gagne.
How is it that the Ranger sare taking David Murphy and Kason Gabbard??? How is this a better deal than a DeSalvo/Clippard/another prospect offer??? they need pitchign. Gabbard is NOT very good, despite his recent successes. You would think, with the history of pitchers, that at least they’d take a flier with multiple pitchers, rather than a light hitting OF…
I am always a bit amused when I see people on here attempt to absolutely guarantee that Arod will stay with the Yankees. He may very well choose to stay with the Yankees but anyone who thinks that is an assured conclusion has their head stuck in the sand right up to their shoulders. Does anyone need reminding that Scott Boras is Arod’s agent. Boras has consistently pressured his players to explore the free agent market. What is to stop Arod from at least dipping his foot into the free agent market and see how high the offers go? If he opts out of his contract he has nothing to lose because he knows that Steinbrenner will try to match any offer he receives. Arod has shown he can be indecisive. Remember how many times he changed his mind about whether to play in the World Baseball Classic a year ago? I’m not sure he knows yet what he wants to do at the end of this year, and for anyone on here to claim that they know what he wants to do is ludicrous.
Donnie said:
“jerkface- batting average is irrelvant? so im supposed to ignore .230? lets bring back steve balboni his ba was low too but he had power so then he must have been good.”
Jerkface is closer to the truth. Batting average is in fact a terrible meter of success compared to other diagnostics we have available. Look at Giambi last year for example. He batted around 250. Are you gonna tell me he had a bad year?
No, I didn’t think so. He had a resplendent year offensively albeit with a low batting average. He strikes out a lot, but also walks a lot with tons of extra base hits. His obp was 413 with a 558 slugging percentage for an ops close to one on the season. Those are hall of fame type numbers my friend.
Why we use batting average on the television is beyond me, but Jerkface is correct when urging to use other more meaningful statistics in evaluating offensive talent.
BJ
Donnie said:
“i think burrel is terrible too. anyway, our bullpen was terrible before and now its worse. i think betemit will be ok actually. cant see the yankees obsession with him but he is better than cairo. the suggestions i have heard to replace the innings are not too logical.”
The story on our bullpen is far from over. Declaring it a failure now, with chamberlains recent move and success in the bullpen is premature. I am one of the guys who really misses Proctor too, but the story on our pen is far from over.
I do think Proctor got overused, and showed us signs of excellence last year. It seems he was used daily under torre, and simply couldn’t keep up with the workload. Further, he was a good guy with right attitude. I can think of several other relievers who should be dropped like a load of bricks before him. Having said that, he is not a young future phenom in our system, so I can live with it.
I see the move more as making room for guys like chamberlain, than getting another utility guy for our bench. This guy is not going to start at third for us if AROD leaves period, so lets stop entertaining that nonsense. This is the New York Yankees we are talking about here.
fine, its not that important but its not irrelevant esspecially when torre likes to advance runners and hit and run.
my point is our bullpen was terrible before and now its worse. you guys seem to forget who our manager is. he ha some sort of complusion in using AT LEAST 3+ bullpen inning ss game and throwing relievers back to back to back games. now instead of proctor out there everyday its gonna be farnsworth or villone. its gonna get real messy come september
big j- if arod leaves i sincerley hope wilson betemit is not our answer. if he is then we are in big trouble. miguel cabera is going to be a free agent i believe. anyway, we are trying to make the playoffs this year and i’m sure this move had nothing to do with any arod insurance. the yanks wouldnt operate that way.
Donnie,
I agree with you on both points. Torre misuses his bullpen carelessly, Proctor included. He is a large part of the reason Proctor hasn’t fared well this year.
I also don’t believe Betemit is the answer at third. I find it humorous that people here believe that is why we got him. Arod is not going anywhere next year, and even in the small chance he did, the yanks would be looking for a top shelf third baseman.
To me, this trade was more about making room for impending roster moves, IE moving chamberlain and others up vs acquiring gagne. Betemit wont make much of a difference on this squad, even as a utility player. With Minky and Giambi coming back, I’m not even sure how this guy gets used.
BJ
Thanks for the info folks.. Claussen and Halsey were the names I was looking for.. I dont see any of the prospects traded by the yanks in the last few years being stellar at the major league level yet..