Updates from the Stadium
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jul 31, 2007 
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Phil Hughes is here and says he will pitch on Saturday.
Scott Proctor said his good-byes. “I’m glad (Joe Torre) put me in as many games as he did,” he said. “I have nothing but respect for him.”
No word on other moves. We’re waiting to speak to Brian Cashman.
Had a chance to speak with Hal Steinbrenner. More on that later. I can tell you now that he said the family has no plans to sell the team.
Will they now DFA Farsworthless? I can’t imagine that Jorge will want to catch him again
No team added a better SP, RP and DH than the Yankees are going to this week. I think we’ll be OK.
Farnesworthless can still be traded after the deadline, no team would be crazy to put a claim on him with +$7 million left on his contract.
How frustating, Farnsworthless is still a Yankee. I have my Tums by the t.v. set.
Definitely am not scared by Eric Gagne. He and Papelbon are perfect for each other. Enjoy the clubhouse infighting, Red Sox!
I do want to see Farnsworth off the team unless he’s apologized to Jorge and Joe and we haven’t been told about it. For him to continue being intransigent is completely unproductive. If you or I did that at work we’d be fired.
LET’S GO YANKEES (as presently constructed)
I don’t know what we’re going to do with Farnsworth – but adding Hughes, Chamberlain and Giambi is better than any other team did at the trade deadline.
I’m really excited about seeing Hughes pitch again for the Yankees. Sad to see Proctor go, though. I liked him. He was a workhorse. I was hoping he’d improve with Farnsworth gone. Can’t we just send Farnsworh to LA and tell him to say that he’s Proctor?
Now that Proctor has been traded,who gets called up to
replace him? Joba? Do they replace Bruney with someone
else as well? We have 3 lefties in the pen. Do we also
replace one on those guys with a righty.
It looks like there are going to be many changes in the
pen,question is who?
Torre now needs to find a new pitcher to abuse. Maybe Villone again?
“Ryan
July 31st, 2007 at 4:23 pm
No team added a better SP, RP and DH than the Yankees are going to this week. I think we’ll be OK.”
perfect!
Well, we’ll be getting Giambi, Hughes, Joba, Britton, Betemit and Karstens for Iggy, Proctor, Basak, and Possibly Farns. That’s a nice upgrade. I wonder if Cash made a last minute deal.
Phil Hughes is here and says he will pitch on Saturday….THIS IS MUSIC TO MY EARS….We need to DFA Farnsworth, bring up Joba & Giambi and make our run to knocking the BoSux off their pedastal. I can’t wait for Gagne to implode and/or get hurt and it is nice to see PapelPug in his yearly end of season free fall. First step is the Wild Card lead,,,,then we shock the world by taking the division….Get ready Yankee Fans…the next 2 months is going to be one to remember ( and that WILL be a very good thing ! )
Just the words “Phil Hughes is here” gives me a sense of inner calm.
And Proctor’s comments make me thinks he knows about the EDSP nickname….
@ Ryan:
Agreed. I’m quite sure Hughes has the stuff *right now* to be a #2 or #3 on this staff, and Joba could be another Joel Zumaya in the making. The next few weeks are going to be VERY exciting to watch as Yankees fans, regardless of the lack of deals at the deadline.
The Sox are running their team like the Yankees from 2002-2006 – win now, screw prospects. They realize that the core of their roster is getting older (Schill, Manny, Tek, etc.), Ortiz may have peaked, and that this may be the last shot at a ring for a while.
Sorry, but I’d rather not mortgage 2 or 3 rings in the next 5 years for one right now.
kd,
You really think Posada will put his issue with Farnsworth ahead of the team? “Sorry, Joe. If you bring Kyle into the game, I’m walking off the field.”
He didn’t exactly get along with El Duque either.
Kyle Farnsworth is not getting DFA’ed.
If they did that, the Yankees eat $7.2 million dollars. Not going to happen.
_Scott Proctor said “I’m glad (Joe Torre) put me in as many games as he did.”_
In other news, Scott Proctor’s detached, battling for life arm said, “#%$^$ING Torre”
2007 Joba= Joel Zumaya
2008 Joba= Justin Verlander
_If they did that, the Yankees eat $7.2 million dollars. Not going to happen._
maybe if we put some mayo and pickles on it, Giambi would eat it.
I am surprised that Cashman didn’t push for Gagne. Granted I am no GM and not qualified to make too many judgements, but the bullpen needed some help. There is the talk of Joba and how great he is, but think of the lack of respect given to Igawa when he first came to the Yankees, “he isn’t proven”, “Japan is different than MLB” and stuff like that. Igawa has been pretty good in AAA but struggles in the majors. I just hope that we aren’t banking on Joba to make this bullpen great. All the reports and blogs I have read said that Joba will be in limited use, so what did we do to upgrade the bullpen? We traded Proctor for a utility player. In my eyes, we lost during this trade deadline.
There has to be a lot of roster moves taking place over the next few days: When Hughes is activated, who do we lose? Will we be so lucky to DFA Farnsworth? How about when they activate Giambi? Should we assume Basak is gone once Betemit arrives?
Did Proctor light anything on fire before he left?
I’m looking at it this way. Proctor was Joe Torre’s crutch. Now he does not have that and he will have to think about using his bullpen in a different way. This can be a good thing.
Giambi is garbage. He is getting close to Carl Pavano syndrome in my book. People forget that if Giambi comes back gone is Damon as DH and/or gone is Melky in CF. I would much rather have Melky’s defence in CF than Giambi’s offense. How long will he hit for this time? Until he gets a nose bleed? Nothing against Jason, I happen to like him but I don’t think he is going to solidify our offense one bit. This year would’ve have been a wonder to watch if Sheff stayed put. Disagree all you want, Sheff was the fire in this team and who else would fit in the Yankee’s #3 spot the way he does.
It makes me sick that Abreau is on the team over Sheff, I don’t care what the reasoning was with their contracts.
Abreau is shrinking physically and we all know the HR champion days are long over.. as with the substances he has been using. Can anyone say *Crash and Burn*.
First think that hurt the moral of this team this year was not the injuries, it was the lame way the Yankees said or didn’t say goodbye to Bernie…
Next up.. Carl Pavano – enough said!
We continue with… Igawa and his lucky lottery ticket – both laughable and cry-able at the same time.
I can go on and on.. Least we get to see some excitement with Hughes back, he sure is fun to watch.
Now how would I resolve the Damon/Giambi/Cabrera conflict??
Simple…
LF: Matsui
CF: Cabrera
RF: Damon
DH: Giambi
BENCH: BOBBY ABREAU
by the way.. Giambi has not been so spectacular in the minors. So what 2 for 5 yesterday, big deal. If it doesn’t rain I will be seeing him tonight at Ed Smith.
The Yankees surely show how excited they are about getting him back to the team.. honestly, they can careless and it shows!
I almost forgot there was a game today…
Proctor will be missed. He took the ball every time Torre called on him and gave 110%. Good luck in L.A. Scott..
Fleas –
So, I take it you don’t like Bobby Abreu??
Oh damn, with all the draft-day like hysteria, I forgot, Moose is pitching tonight.
I’m sad to see Everyday Scottie off to LA, but the deal for Betemit is sound. Cash made the smart moves to stick w/ the kids and Melky, so now our pen and bench are in the best shape of the season (Jason, Joba and Phil… YAHOO). Now what to do w/ Crazy Kyle? Let’s chance it and see if he clears waivers, and make one last smart trade…
Maybe Pete can add more to this but just heard that Farnsworth wanted nothing to do with the media in the clubhouse today and could not have been more beligerant.
Torre showed no interest in putting Basak in games even when we were in desperate need of bench help. He Gone!
I am very disappointed that we did not deal Farnsy but I guess he is going to go in the penalty box for a while after reading Pete’s articles. That crap (nearly injuring Jorge and then throwing the team under the bus) belongs somewhere else.
I hope Pete will give us some understanding of how we can possibly get this cancer removed.
In Joba we trust (but verify)
I would guess that Betemit will replace Basack on the roster, Joba will take Proctor’s spot, Hughes will take Henn’s, Giambi Duncan’s. Anyone else agree?
Fleas – Johnny Damon with that arm in Right Field??!? Are you crazy?
wow fleas, that was a rambling mess of baseball ignorance.
Thanks for making me feel better about myself, though.
Damon doesnt have the arm to play right.I see the outfielders rotating time off so they all get playing time.
Scott Proctor said “I’m glad (Joe Torre) put me in as many games as he did.�
This is a true gem. You won’t be happy in a year or so, Scott. Anyway, it’s sad to see him go, I always liked him, you could tell how invested he was in helping the team win. But this is a business, and Cash made the right move. Good luck with LA.
As for Kyle, there’s really no reason the Yankees can’t still trade Farnsworth. “Worst” case scenario in that someone claims his contract off waivers-which no one will-and he’s off the Yankees’ hands without them having to pay anything for it.
brian? brain cashman? thanks for asking, but I like your roster moves…
as i said in the previous thread, gagne to boston doesn’t win them the world series. you have to play the games. it DOES strengthen their already-strong bullpen considerably, and make them all the more dangerous in october. the immediate impact on the yankees is nil because they weren’t going to win the division anyway. the yankees are chasing the indians, who made no major moves to improve their team. that bodes well for new york.
however, let’s look at brian cashman’s year. any good move he made was of the painfully obvious variety. it’s a good idea to hold on to incredibly talented young arms like hughes and chamberlain? it’s a good idea to unload a bitter, injured, old starting pitcher who was wholly disliked by his teammates and never lived up to expectations? really? you think so, doctor?
outside of keeping hughes and unloading johnson, let’s look at what cashman did.
- counted on carl pavano to spend the entire year in the starting rotation. absolute idiocy.
- coughed up a ton of money for igawa as a knee-jerk reaction to the dice-k signing. once again, absolute idiocy. cashman and his scouts look terrible on this one.
- gave mike mussina two years and a ton of money. you can say “who could have seen mussina’s decline coming,” all you want. he’s closing in on 40 years old and had a pretty mediocre second half of 2006. it wasn’t a stretch to think there was going to be a dropoff in performance.
- let sheffield go. nothing he could really do about that, as sheffield wasn’t going to play 1B for the yankees. tough to blame cashman for this but sheffield is having a monster year for a team the yankees will likely have to beat to get to the world series (should they make the playoffs). hindsight’s 20/20, but this move hasn’t really panned out.
- unloaded a player everyone on the team loved for a guy they didn’t really need. i don’t hate the proctor for betemit deal, i just don’t really see the point of it. this team needed help in the bullpen. badly. so cashman unloaded a reliever for a utility guy with a decent ceiling. again, don’t hate the deal, don’t love it
- failed to unload kyle farnsworth (more farnsworth’s fault than cashman’s).
- failed to upgrade the bullpen (gagne, cordero, reyes, torres were all available).
they’re now counting on joba chamberlain (ZERO major league experience), phil hughes (extremely limited major league experience) and jeff karstens (limited major league experience) to help carry this team past cleveland and into the playoffs. are hughes and chamberlain talented? immensely. are they ready to jump into a pennant race and perform at a high level? i guess we’ll find out.
cashman’s not a great GM. he’s working with nearly unlimited resources and on more than one occasion this year, he’s let pride and stubbornness get in the way of improving his team (counting on pavano, counting on igawa, refusing to deal horne). he’s done a decent job in new york, but i won’t be sorry to see him go. and if they miss the world series this year, i hope he will be gone.
Who do we have now in the pen that would retaliate if one of our players were hit now that Proctor is gone?
I think you have to look at it another way.
Its going to take 30-35 million a year to re-sign Arod. To do so, its going to have a ripple effect on the team.
In other words, they have to save money in other areas.
I don’t care how much money the Yankees have, they must be sick and tired of paying 60+ million a year in luxury tax money annually AND getting raped by teams in trade talks.
At some point, you have to reload from within. If they re-sign Arod, they can bring these young kids in and not only have an inexpensive pitching staff but, an upgrade to the present staff.
You make trades with this year AND future years in mind. If they want to keep Arod (which seems to be the case), the money is going to be taken from somewhere else on the team.
Probably why guys like Melky and the young pitchers were not going to be a match for Gagne.
Itch me-
That post was wrong on so many levels it doesn’t even merit a point by point.
Damon can’t play RF – rag arm
Do you know how many HR’s Giambi had last year? 37
Abreu shrinking? He was never a season HR champ, he is an OBP machine who sees more pitches than anyone.
Sheff is fire, no doubt, Sheff is a jerk who burns down every city he leaves for any variety of delusional reasons. And he is a confirmed, confessed, cream and clear user (aka PEDs) but he just thought it was flax seed oil – - – BS
Damon could only play right if they let him carry a bat and a tee to hit the ball off of back to the infield
“Scott Proctor said his good-byes. “I’m glad (Joe Torre) put me in as many games as he did,â€? he said. “I have nothing but respect for him.â€?”
we’ll see how he feels after his off-season shoulder surgery.
I love how they helped the team by trading away a valued member for a bench guy.
Lot of pressure on Hughes and Chamberlain now.
“Damon can’t play RF – rag arm”
i agree, but it’s not like Bernie didn’t play 50+ games in RF last year for the yankees.
i don’t remember it killing the team.
At least this means that Joba will be in the Bronx and pitching before the weekend.
I love it.
I have a feeling Proctor will thrive now that he no longer has to suffer Torre’s abuse. That is, unless he goes down with an injury.
kasey.
Cashman is a very good GM. You can’t hang Pavano on him. Every GM in baseball wanted Pavano. Igawa was a pretty expensive move, but nobody coul dhave predicted how bad he’d actually be. He was GREAT in Japan. Who knew he’d be HORRIFIC here.
Did everyone forget Cash getting Abreu last year? Getting rid of Wright and Johnson. Getting rid of Sheff was a blessing.
Cash has this team in GREAT shape for the future and the rest of the season. I think he’s done a fine job. Not the BEST job he could have done, but he can’t be perfect and predict every move he makes accurately.
He certainly did better than you would have, Kasey.
How does one rag on Damons OF play after the past week?
You know, getting to balls is just as important and probably more than throwing balls.
I live in Atlanta and Betimit is a good player and could start and be a .270 26 90 type guy….he is 27 and cheap
SJ – you said -
I don’t care how much money the Yankees have, they must be sick and tired of paying 60+ million a year in luxury tax money annually AND getting raped by teams in trade talks.
Whoa – $60M? where does that number come from? I know you know your stuff but I have never seen that number before.
kasey may be a Negative Nancy but he’s right on this.
Cashman has to take the blame for the lack of pitching. His track record on pitching has been terrible. Luckily for him his track record on finding young pitching is sterling right now.
What really sinks him may be Igawa. Igawa over Lilly was a terrible choice. Not bidding high for Dice K. Terrible choice. Trusting Pavano as the 4th starter. Terrible.
But if Hughes, Joba, Kennedy, Horne hit? Than he’s a God.
“I am surprised that Cashman didn’t push for Gagne. ”
who said he didn’t?
Kasey -
Just because you have unlimited resources, you don’t spend them foolishly. With the possible exception of Igawa (on whom the scouting reports to Cashman were good – but wrong), I see Cashman as being level-headed and forward thinking. Where he was short-sighted, was in going gung-ho into the best-case scenarios, hoping everything would fall into place. Too many worst-case scenarios unfolded, especially at the start of the season, possibly too many to overcome. When you see the Yankees play as they have in the month of July, you realize that that is what Cashman expected; and when they’re clicking, you can’t really blame Cashman for seeing that version of the Yankees as the team that would carry the season.
But the Yankees have been schizo this season. Some maybe foreseeable, some not. Has Cashman been a “genious GM”? No. But I don’t want to see him gone, even if the Yankees end up missing the playoffs for the first time in what seems like forever. He deserves another year, in my mind, for changing the vision of the team to one that’s not ONLY focused on the now, but also has an eye toward the future.
Lineup for the Game tonight:
Chi White Sox
J. Owens cf
J. Fields 3b
J. Thome dh
P. Konerko 1b
A.J. Pierzynski c
J. Dye rf
S. Podsednik lf
J. Uribe ss
D. Richar 2b
NY Yankees
J. Damon dh
D. Jeter ss
B. Abreu rf
A. Rodriguez 3b
H. Matsui lf
J. Posada c
R. Cano 2b
A. Phillips 1b
M. Cabrera cf
Can you people relax with Farnsworth?
If they figure out what’s wrong with him and get him to pitch like he did last year than they may have something.
They may have a bullpen.
You don’t give away guys with that arm. You actually coach and teach!! You don’t give up because its hard. Because its tough.
If he can find a way back and Joba C is as good as everyone says this may actually become a good pen.
A-Rod, Jorge and Mo all need to be signed. That will cost, It does make sense not to add dead wood contracts to the mix and to fill from within especially if the kids represent upgrades.
It would hurt to DFA Farns and have to eat that money this year. If they do though, does his contract amount come of the books for next year and do they then save the corresponding luxury tax amount? If not and a waiver deal can be worked out so much the better. That guy really does have to go; I can’t imagine they want that venomous clown hanging around the kids as they come up.
Donnelly is getting TJ surgery….Sox can use Gagne in his slot now….
Parker –
We don’t know what we have until we see Hughes and Chamberlain over time. That will determine whether we hang an effigy of Cashman or praise him to the rooftops.
God willing Joba makes the HUGE adjustment and Hughes lives up to potential.
I for one am going to tune in to see what happens!!!
No way Cash pushed for Gagne. He could have blown that Boston offer out of the water if he wanted to. He decided he didn’t need him or want him.
If Cash wanted Gagne, he’d be wearing pinstripes.
Proctor loves Torre because he gave a career minor leaguer a shot in the bigs and now he has a chance at a decent career. He has been a horse but he was terrible against the Red Sox and they have internal options to fill his spot. The pen as constituted two days ago wasn’t very good, so we’ll see if the revamped version performs any better.
Looking forward to the rest of the ride in ’07 and watching the kids that Cash was protective of perform in years to come.
Do we really have to reprise the same crappy arguments every day?
Tonight’s Yankees !
Damon DH
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
A-Rod 3b
Matsui LF
Posada C
Cano 2b
Phillips 1b
Cabrera CF
Let’s pick up a game on EVERYONE tonight ! GO YANKEES !
Parker –
Cashman may or may not have a good track record on free agent pitchers, I’ll leave that for others to argue. But, I will say that he has recognized that the free agent market for pitchers is far to risky and expensive in both time (contract length) and dollars. So, he’s made a correction in the way things are done — the concentration now is in developing pitchers, concentrating on the draft. You can’t say Cashman has not learned from his perceived “mistakes.”
Eddie-
Have you watched any Yankee games this year? If you have, then you would know Farnsworth is useless. Obviously, you haven’t wacthed ANY games, or, you’re just an idiot.
Isn’t having Hughes and Joba and Kennedy and Horne and Marquez and Betances and Brackman a little better than having no farm system and relying on Tim Redding and Darrel May?
This is our Verlander and Bonderman and Zumaya.
This is our Santana.
This is our Peavy and Young.
Our K-Rod and Lackey.
Young, cheap, ultra talented pitchers. You need it to win. Power armed strike throwers.
“No way Cash pushed for Gagne. He could have blown that Boston offer out of the water if he wanted to. He decided he didn’t need him or want him. ”
define “pushed”.
yes, he could have blown it out of the water by offering Ian Kennedy.
he didn’t decide he didn’t want him. he decided that trading Kennedy for Gange was stupid.
Regardless of what Cashman has done in the past, you have to respect and admire his ability to stand firm to any trades involving “the untouchables” (Joba, Kennedy, Horne)and keeping them in the Yanks’ farm. He hasn’t folded (yet) and has kept the future of this team extremely bright.
Listening to the Mad Dog on WFAN and he keeps pronouncing Gagne’s name Gag-yeah instead of Gan-yeah… driving me nuts.
Yeah, Bill. Give up on a guy after a few bad outings.
I guess you’re the same jerk who wanted A-Rod traded, Cano traded, Vizcaino DFA’d, Abreu traded, etc
I guess you don’t have a little patience. I guess you were too dumb to watch games last year and in the past.
You figure out whats wrong and fix him. What coaches are supposed to do right? You coach him!! WOW
Shocking.
Just in case nobody noticed, the other teams in the Wild Card chase (Cleveland / Seattle) did zip-zilch-zero for upgrading themselves. Detroit is just 1 game better than Cleveland and they also made no moves.
Boston essentially did NOT deal with what they said was their big need….bench strength. They chose to bite their nose to spite their face by keeping Gagne away from their lifelong headache – the Yankees. Pena, Hinske, amd Mirabelli are still hanging around.
“Cashman is a very good GM. You can’t hang Pavano on him.”
this year, you can. the initial signing was not a disaster. a ton of people wanted pavano and cashman got him. at the time, it looked like a decent signing, even if they were gambling for a career .500 pitcher who had one good season in the NL. whatever. pavano was sought-after. can’t kill cashman for that.
you CAN kill cashman for continuing to insist that pavano was going to contribute when the guy had proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that he had no intention or desire to do so. cashman’s stubborn insistence on getting a return on his investment put the team in a position where they were counting on pavano to take the ball 30+ times this year, and that’s just plain stupid. anyone who isn’t a complete idiot knew he was going down with a season-ending injury at some point.
add the igawa signing to that and you’ve got a very bad year for brian cashman. and that’s not even considering the other moves i listed.
Kasey — well said.
Bottom line people is that you can pretend your Torre or Cashman and micromanage this team and get them exactly in the shape they are .. uhm.. right now. Worth far less than 200million payroll.
I love people that say Sheff is a clubhouse cancer… one and for all, WHO GIVE A FLYING SHE-IT ABOUT MILLIONAIRE EGOS… it what they do one the field that counts… does anyone realize that? I would take Damon’s rag arm in RF over Abreaus laziness , no hustles, dead bat and snoozing at second base… no excuses, Bobby has the plague and what I mean about ‘shrinking’ he is losing wait still… and yes Bobby did win the HR Derby a couple years ago… Duh!
This team has about a 7% chance of winning the division and about a 29% chance of the wild card.. I’m taking bets now.. those are my odds.
One more time.. Kasey what you said was very well put! I totally agree.
I’ll be back in a few, for some reason I am itchy.
Maybe I will head to Shea and see Luis Castillo.
I am still confident we can pull this out and finish with a successful 1988 campaign.
If Cashman wanted Gagne, he could have had Gagne.
I guess he saw there was more value in Kennedy and the others than 2 months of Gagne especially if Joba can do the job.
So, obviously, he didn’t push for Gagne. Or he would have him right now.
so many typos — sorry too many to correct.
With that facial hair, Gagne fits right in.
cashman could have offered horne instead of kennedy and texas would have taken the deal. at least, that’s what reports are saying. no way to tell how much truth there is there.
IF they’re true, then cashman failed. horne is the 4th best pitching prospect in the system, and he MIGHT (again, MIGHT) end up being a decent 2 or 3 someday. he’s not irreplaceable. with wang, hughes, chamberlain and kennedy all slated for the roation in the present/near future, horne was expendable. but, cashman decided to become bill stoneman and overvalue his own prospects.
Eddie-
A few bad outings? Farnsworth? Are you kidding?
There have been more than a few meltdowns from Farnsworth. Everyone, how many 1-2-3 innings has Farnsworth induced this season?
Gagne in, Donnelly out with TJ surgery…
Ask Det how much they love Sheff’s outspokeness right now.
Considering they asked him to keep quiet.
Cash has a plan.
Stock the system with high end, young pitching. Seems to be working with Hughes, Chamberlain pretty much here. Kennedy on the way.
Lets evaluate the Sheff deal in 3 years. Because he wasn’t going to play here anyway. If Sanchez is a huge bust,you have an argument.
It’s a shame Dye wasn’t dealt to the NL, would have been nice to face the CWS lineup without him in the middle of it.
TK,
The Yankees will pay close to 60 million in luxury tax money this year. The last couple of years, its been over 50 million.
That’s over 150 million dollars, given away to your competitors, and it doesn’t help your team one bit.
At some point, that has to stop. All the pontificating about, “We are the Yankees” blah, blah, blah, is hot air.
You have windows of opportunities to win. The Yankees window is closing right now. They need a new window.
In order to do so, you have to reload. You don’t do that parting with young pitchers with enormous upside. Especially true in today’s baseball, when somebody like Barry Zito gets 128 million on the open market.
I know fans don’t like it because they are used to seeing the team spending wildly but, welcome to today’s baseball. Things are changing and the Yankees are changing the way they do business.
If these pitchers turn out as good as advertised, they will be good for years to come. If not, then fans can complain about the Yankees overvaluing them.
Time will tell how things shake out.
Kasey,
Who was going to take Pavano without first proving he could pitch? Cashman had to take his chances there. But, we’ll agree to disagree, I’m not trying to change your mind. I will agree, it certainly did not work out well.
Some guys struggle.
You don’t give up and cut them everytime they go through a bad patch.
You work with them
You correct them. You help them.
Farnsworth needs some coaching right now. He’s a better 6-7 inning option than anyone they could trade for if they get his head straight.
You don’t give up on players or guys who throw 98mph.
Ask Bill how Contreras did in Chicago after we gave up on him and his fastball.
I guess Bill was the leader of the cut Cano crew after he started badly. Way to show patience and faith and work with players. Good job, Billy!
It’s occurred to me that discussing Torre/Cashman is much like discussing politics. You either like ‘em or ya don’t, and there’s no changing anyone’s mind. C’est la vie.
I like the fact that Cashman didn’t make a flashy trade just ot save his job. He could have sent off Hughes for Tex and Joba for an oft-injured ex-closer in Gagne. Might be a late-season push but we’d all curse him later. Think the Mets want Kazmir back? I really think that the Red Sox overpaid and will cause a clubhouse problem with two closers. They’ve shown that the bullpen by committee doesn’t work.
As far as giving Cash a hard time, just remember that as bad as Pavano was, ARod for Soriano was a steal and Justice was a good deal. Epstein will loose his job because of Lugo and Drew. The Red Sox are in danger of losing the Papi/Manny middle of the order very soon due to age/injury and the Yankees are slowly rebuilding.
The Sux are a key injury away from another 3rd place finish
There is no report, anywhere, that says Texas would have taken Horne over Kennedy, Chamberlain or Hughes.
Kay cited Yankee sources that said the Rangers NEVER came off Hughes, Kennedy or Chamberlain for Gagne.
If that’s true, then its a no brainer as to why Cashman didn’t do the deal.
“If these pitchers turn out as good as advertised, they will be good for years to come. If not, then fans can complain about the Yankees overvaluing them.”
bingo. now tell me this. what are the odds – the REALISTIC odds – that hughes, chamberlain, kennedy and horne ALL pan out, along with ohlendorf, sanchez, etc. not real good.
so you’re telling me it’s better to hang on to horne and HOPE he’s one of the guys lives up to expectations than to pick up gagne and try to make some noise this season? if they lose horne, they’ve still got a host of arms that MIGHT be successful.
it’s just more stubbornness from cashman to me. he decided he was the “prospects” guy so now he’s hanging on to them for dear life. odds are, they aren’t ALL going to pan out.
Peter,,,,can you tell us why in the WORLD would the Yankees be saying No Thank You to various teams that inquired about Igawa, saying he is not available ? What the heck is up with THAT ?
No way you can fault Cashman for Boston’s signing of Dice-K. From what I read, Yanks did bid very high for him. Just that Boston bid OUTRAGEOUSLY high for him. And btw, Matsuzaka hasn’t been unbeatable. He is 12-8 with a 3.75 ERA. Doesn’t mean I agree with him on everything, but I’m willing to give him a pass on this one.
I am very excited about the young talent this team has and I am very happy that Cashman was willing to look beyond the end of this season (no matter how it ends up) in order to preserve the Yankees future.
Itch Me –
Please feel free to go to Shea and see the Metropolitans lose the division to Hotlanta, or maybe you haven’t gotten a chance to see today’s trade action? Bring nattering nabob kasey with ya. You clearly don’t pay attention if you think Damon can play RF.
Most people who watch baseball would say that the HR champ is the person who hits the ball over the fence the most times in a year. But if you call a one-night ESPN performance HR champ, then “You go girl”.
Hope you enjoy Shea and plague us no more.
Good luck Scott, you done good in NY.
“There is no report, anywhere, that says Texas would have taken Horne over Kennedy, Chamberlain or Hughes.”
there were reports all day yesterday that horne’s name had come up and cashman decided he was off the table. all day.
however, like you said, if texas never budged from hughes, chamberlain or kennedy, then it makes sense. HOWEVER, you really want me to believe that daniels insisted on hughes, chamberlain or kennedy and then took gabbard, murphy and beltre from the red sox? really? his asking price came down that much, huh? in 10 hours, and without any further offers from the yankees? i think not.
Look we dont know what Cashman’s thinking.But he has rebuilt our farm in no time. A lot of you are mad that we didnt give up Horne or other top prospects.Let me remind you that Santana will be a free agent after 2008 and that he might be waiting till either the offseason or next years trade deadline to make a run for him with those young studs
in the minors.
So if you ask me if I would rather give up those players for a 2 month relief pitcher or the best in the business, I will take waiting a year for the real deal.
Just be patient. We are the Yankees not the Royals,he will make a big splash when its beneficial.(Soriano-A-rod)
The biggest moves the Yankees should make right now is fixing the pitching staff. And to do that, they only need to add Hughes and Chamberlain to the staff. They are on the right track right now. The offseason is the offseason. Losing our prospects for a rent-a-player is stupid. Let the other teams overpay for the Gagne’s or Teixeira’s
24 hours a day the media says the Yankees have the $ and will spend anything. This is now the 3rd season in a row these guys now have to say they’re really surprised the Yankees didn’t follow their instructions. 2 years ago some guys were convinced we’d get Griffey, last year they were sure we’d get Piazza, both of whom would’ve been what the old Yankees might’ve done. Those days are over. Farnsworth came close to seriously injuring Posada. End of discussion.
Not so disappointed we didn’t get Gagne, as I am disappointed he went to the Sox. It doesn’t make sense for the Yanks to give up what Texas wanted. Looks like we finally stopped mortgaging the future, and I’m glad. The move makes much more sense for Boston. Gagne is the linchpin for them to win the division.
I’m not greedy…WILD CARD OR BUST!!
You keep your chips for the RIGHT deal. Gagne for 2 months was not worth the potential of any of those pitchers.
SJ44 –
What it also says to me, since Cashman has long been saying that those pitchers were not available, is that Texas had no intention of dealing with the Yankees from the get go.
“Peter,,,,can you tell us why in the WORLD would the Yankees be saying No Thank You to various teams that inquired about Igawa, saying he is not available ? What the heck is up with THAT ?”
this can not be true. where are you hearing this? if it IS true, it further reinforces my opinion that cashman’s a proud, stubborn jackass.
Has Cashman spoke to the public yet? I wonder if a trade is still being finalized…. he was out talking to press by 4:30 PM EST last year.
There were rumors that Padres ask about him,they put a bid on him this past offseason and that Cashman said he isnt available.
Doreen,
Exactly. Michael Kay today said somebody from the Yankees told him they never got to Horne’s name in the talks. It was always either Hughes, Kennedy or Chamberlain.
What are the odds of those guys all being good? I don’t know, perhaps the same odds as Bonderman, Verlander and Zumaya all being good in Detroit.
All I know is, I have seen Chamberlain and Kennedy pitch a total of 10 times (6 for Joba, 4 for Ian) this year.
I think they are going to be all stars in this league. Same goes for Hughes.
If they stay healthy, they are the real deal.
Give me three kids, all under 24, with Wang, and I’ll take that rotation over a 2 month Eric Gagne rental.
Heck, if Joba keeps throwing the way he is throwing, he helps the Yankees right now out of the ‘pen.
The more I think about it, the more I am glad Cashman didn’t budge. The easy thing would be to budge. He could get fired if they don’t make the playoffs this year.
It would have been easy to cave, give up Kennedy for Gagne, and fans would have cheered him. Even though that’s not in the best interests of the organization.
The guy showed some guts not doing it. Hopefully, it pans out for him.
SJ, I asked this before, but don’t know if you saw it or answered me. Has your scout friend seen Daniel McCutcheon at Tampa, and if so, what’s his take on him?
We could’ve have left Igawa alone and Shef in RF.. we could have still paid Abreau to do something like laundry in the clubhouse and saved money if Cashman didn’t waste money on Igawa.
I think I have a pretty good argument when you compare Abreau vs Sheff right friggin now!!!!!
The Yankees should consider going public.If Rudy G fails in his bid for the oval office make him Pres of the Yankees
sj44,
i agree with you on chamberlain and hughes. haven’t seen enough of kennedy to have an opinion, but it doesn’t bother me a bit that cashman’s hanging on to him.
IF horne’s name didn’t come up, then i’m glad he didn’t pull the trigger.
IF horne’s name did come up, i’m disappointed he didn’t pull the trigger.
they’re now counting on two rookies (no matter how talented) to improve this team in the areas it needs most. that is a nerve-wracking proposition, i don’t care how excited you are about phil and joba (and i think it’s safe to say we’re all very excited).
either way, cashman’s “brilliant” (read: painfully obvious) decision to hang on to hughes and kennedy doesn’t exactly offset the other moves he made this season. igawa, pavano and mussina hurth this team a GREAT DEAL this year.
hughes and kennedy should be “hughes and chamberlain.” sorry.
Guys are still talking about Lilly..
FA pitchers are insanity.. huge contracts for long periods of times.. the yanks will have minimum 2 starters basically at the league minimum or so(wang and Hughes) and more on the way.. Kennedy, Chamberlain, and others…
FA pitching signings usually do not work, name 3 that worked??/ Zito, Meche, Lilly, Pedro, etc… They never work out and the contracts are insane…
Relief pitchers are much easier to sign and the Yanks have 3 or 4 well rated guys back next yr. including cox and sanchez…
People have no idea of what they are talking about……..
“You don’t give away guys with that arm. You actually coach and teach!! You don’t give up because its hard. Because its tough.”
Farnsworth has an attitude and you can’t fix stupid.
As for Gagne – everyone stop whining. If we were 8 games ahead of the Red Sox, you all wouldn’t give 2 shats. We had a bad start this year and our team is freakin incredible if they even play up to half their potential. There is no reason we should be losing series’ with the players we have playing at potential.
You wan’t Cash to give away our #5 pitching prospect for 20 games of Gagne? Please. It would have taken more than Horne also.
While I’m still unsure about how I feel about Proctor leaving, I do like that Proctor handled his departure with class. He could have been a complete jerk, but instead, he went out on the right note.
Kasey,
You don’t deal Igawa now because you basically pay 30 million (including posting fee) for one worthless year of Kei. That is a panic move at its finest, especially considering that you will get nothing in return. He has minor league options, so you send him SWB and see of he can get his act together and contribute next year (most likely in long relief). If not, you cut your losses later on, because his salary is basically chump change compared to his posting fee.
BTW Kasey, I was just in Vancouver, BC for a week and it rained the whole time. What’s up with that? The summer I lived up there it was beautiful and not rainy at all. The weather got you down? You seem a little more pessimistic than usual.
For whatever reason, the McD GMs (flip burgers during the day, go on moronic rants by night) ignore the fact that Texas (and others) hold the Yankees to different standards than other teams. For example, the McD GMs were probably making extra fries when Arizona traded Schilling to the RedSux for way way less than what they demanded from the Yankees. Maybe its the grease fumes that get them to rant and rave and say obnoxious and aggressive things?
Just let A-Rod connect for No. 500 tonight and Gagne talk will be toned down – bigtime.
Padres Interested In Igawa, Lamb, Loretta
UPDATE: Will Carroll reports that the Padres appear to be close to a deal for both Lamb and Loretta. Not sure if the Ensberg acquisition changes this.
I’m not sure when it was published, but Tom Krasovic of the San Diego Union-Tribune reported that the Padres have interest in Mark Loretta or Mike Lamb from the Astros. That we knew, but Krasovic also mentions that *the Padres would like to buy low on Kei Igawa but the Yankees aren’t shopping him* !!!???!!!??? WHAT THE $^%&%$&%$ ???
( this came from mlbtradrumors.com )
p.s. and fyi for the whiners already conceding the world series (see above):
“Boston Red Sox reliever Brendan Donnelly will have season-ending surgery on his right elbow”
super size mine, please
hi Kasey
I saw Alan Horne pitch for Trenton about 4 weeks ago.
He throws a sinking fastball something like Wang’s, and has a great hammer curve.
I’ve also seen him dial up several fastballs in the 6th inning to blow away a hitter after his fielders made a couple of errors.
I don’t think you give Alan Horne away for a two-month rental. The only reason you don’t hear about Horne (or Jeff Marquez) is because of Hughes, Chamberlain, and Kennedy
On Pavano – there was no reason to think that Pavano wouldn’t at least eat some innings this year, unless you really believed he was made of glass.
In addition, Cashman had Karstens and Rasner as 6th and 7th starters.
Cashman also thought Humberto Sanchez and Ross Ohlendorf would vie for 5th starter, and provide insurance against Pavano.
Instead, Pavano, Karstens, Rasner, Sanchez, Ohlendorf AND Hughes went down with injuries.
How exactly was Cashman going to insure against that?
Moose was signed purely as a bridge to a younger staff.
Igawa? A gamble – but the idea was NOT to repeat the Pavano 4-year deal thing with mediocre or injury-prone guys like Lilly, Meche, Schmidt…
Igawa had great success in Japan, and is a lefty who sits 88-90 on the gun. The Yankees will probably let Nardi Contreras completely rebuild his mechanics, and see what happens.
20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing, isn’t it?
Peter,
Gagne is a juicer with a bad back. Every writer and talk show host(except Russo) knows it.
Cashman has been on his own for less than a year and the Yanks are fun again. Can’t wait to see the young guys come up. That is the beauty of baseball.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/.....adres.html
more on this Igawa we gotta keep him crap !
I’m not too worried about the Yankees bull-pen in the future either. As early as next year they could have Robertson,Sanchez,Whelan,Cox and Melencon up here. All have high upside Oh and Ohlendorf who reportedly has hit 97 mph out of the pen the other night. He could be up here too this year.
rbizzler,
it’s been sunny and 70 the last two days, but it rains a ton up here. one reason i’m moving to the warm and sunny climate of portland, OR soon. oh, wait…
SJ44′s info is great, and the guy is obviously an intelligent and reasonable fan with plenty of info on hand, but i do have to say that i remember clearly, not so long ago, abreu was a “dog with fleas” who needed to be dumped, cano needed to be dealt or sent down, and the yankees needed to start dumping salary and planning for next year because they were going “nowhere fast” and were not making the playoffs. now they’re 4 games out, and we’re not seeing statements like that. doesn’t mean he was wrong then and right now or vice versa. it means circumstances dictate opinions. right now, missing out on gagne doesn’t seem like a big deal. if boston wins the world series this year and kennedy turns out to be nothing special, we might look at it a little differently. time will tell.
Just to clear up the luxury tax – this last year’s number from AP on 12/22/06:
NEW YORK — The Yankees were slapped with a $26 million luxury tax by the commissioner’s office, raising New York’s total to $97.75 million over the last four years.
I don’t think with Randy Johnson gone and Rocket in that we are spending 2x.
If someone could find a number for this year that would be great! PETE?
scooter,
good to know on horne. i’m sure he’s a one-of-a-kind talent and a lock for the hall of fame. after all, every prospect pans out.
yeah, you’re right. you’d have to be an idiot to think pavano would go down with an injury this year. i mean, it’s not like a bruised buttocks kept him out nearly two months or anything.
scouts everywhere projected igawa as MAYBE a 5th starter/long man with an attitude problem. that is, scouts except for cashman’s guys. people were laughing at the signing from day one and they’re ROARING now. but you’re right, he was worth four years and 46 mil.
if cashman honestly thought sanchez and ohlendorf would vie for the 5th starter role THIS YEAR, then he’s dumber than i thought.
karstens and rasner are mediocre pitchers, even when healthy. rasner especially.
i’m being overly sarcastic, but you get the point. it didn’t take an oracle to see pavano’s injury or igawa’s ineffectiveness coming. if you were counting on either, i’m sorry for you.
Peter,,,,any chance that the Yankees made some moves right before the deadline that we didn’t hear about yet….like maybe we traded Farnsworth for Seattle’s Bat Boy ?
KAJ,
I think that Igawa has been absolutely awful this year, but I don’ get why you sell low on him. Selling low means that you save 12 million over the next three years compared to the 30 million you invested for this year. Plus, you aren’t going to get jack for prospects back for him. What is the harm in sending him down and letting him work on his game? Worst case scenario is you dump him later for exactly what San Diego offered at the deadline – nothing.
I am not an Igawa apologist and I think that he sucks, but there is no point in getting rid of him when he still has options left.
I believe the total with Rocket is about $210 million for the season….but they get back some of that for Pavano, since he turned out to be worthless
Tk,
Add in the revenue sharing fees and it tops 60 million this year. The revenue sharing and the luxury tax fees combined are over 150 million dollars the last 4 years. Way too much, IMO.
All you end up doing is funding your competitors.
Kasey,
My position on Cano is simple. He is their best trade chip if they decide to go after somebody big, ie: a Santana, Cabrera, etc.
I never advocated trading him. I advocated not calling him an “untouchable”. Which, IMO, he isn’t.
Here’s the way I see the deadline:
Are Hughes, Chamberlain, Betemit and Giambi enough to add to the team to improve it enough to make the playoffs? Time will tell but, that’s a lot to add, and only lose Scott Proctor, at the deadline.
I have to see more of McCutcheon to have an opinion on him. He is older (24) than most pitchers in the FSL. That may be playing into some of his success. Although, he has an Edwar-like changeup. He taught it to Chamberlain in Tampa this year. Its nasty.
If he has the same kind of success in AA next year, then you can call him a big-time prospect.
Re: Kennedy and Chamberlain, I think a little perspective is needed. Both those guys started the year in A ball. Talented as they are, NOBODY thought they would be this good, this fast.
That’s good news for the Yankees.
When planning his off-season moves, it would have been impossible for Cashman to know both guys would be in AAA, knocking on the door to the bigs, this season. If he did, he probably doesn’t make a couple of the moves he made.
Kasey –
I started reading these comments and Frosted Flakes was making me laugh, I was nodding a lot then….woosh, common sense left the building.
This tirade against Cashman took the biscuit and requires a response (sorry it is gonna be long)
You said Cashman:
– counted on carl pavano to spend the entire year in the starting rotation. absolute idiocy.
No Muss, Pettitte, Wang, Kartens, Igawa were pencilled in as the starters with Pav pitching if healthy. DeSalvo, Rasner et al provided back up. Clemens was always pencilled in as well.
– coughed up a ton of money for igawa as a knee-jerk reaction to the dice-k signing. once again, absolute idiocy. cashman and his scouts look terrible on this one.
- He did overpay on the posting fee as a reaction to DiceK. More as a reaction to the market for DiceK actually. The reports on Igawa were better than he played. His skills are actually better than hes played. And with the posting fee not counting towards tax or payroll it was a one time cheque and is off the books. Overall a bad move but the contract is good and we can still get some value.
– gave mike mussina two years and a ton of money. you can say “who could have seen mussina’s decline coming,� all you want. he’s closing in on 40 years old and had a pretty mediocre second half of 2006. it wasn’t a stretch to think there was going to be a dropoff in performance.
He had no choice. Hughes wasnt ready, the market for free agents was stupid and would have blocked Jobas/ Kennedy’s spot in the rotation for the next 3 yrs. Sound good to you? One yr of Muss would have cost 17m. You needed that to ease the transition and give you another vet. 2 yr at 22m was a steal in that market. Hes another guy who can and will pitch better. Or we could have relied on Pavano to be healthy.
– let sheffield go. nothing he could really do about that, as sheffield wasn’t going to play 1B for the yankees. tough to blame cashman for this but sheffield is having a monster year for a team the yankees will likely have to beat to get to the world series (should they make the playoffs). hindsight’s 20/20, but this move hasn’t really panned out.
He got 3 ligit pitching prospects for a huge contract he didnt want. Sanchez was always an injury risk, but we have depth of young pitching and he will be a big asset when he returns. You cant avoid trading with half the decent teams in the league because you are scared of them. Build your own team and let them build theirs. If theirs includes the loud mouth clubhouse cancer all the better.
– unloaded a player everyone on the team loved for a guy they didn’t really need. i don’t hate the proctor for betemit deal, i just don’t really see the point of it. this team needed help in the bullpen. badly. so cashman unloaded a reliever for a utility guy with a decent ceiling. again, don’t hate the deal, don’t love it
– failed to unload kyle farnsworth (more farnsworth’s fault than cashman’s).
– failed to upgrade the bullpen (gagne, cordero, reyes, torres were all available
Proctor was moved while he had value. How much woud you give for Sturtze now? That is Proctor in a yr. Betemit is a good player. And a good backup for ARod.
I’m sure he wanted to add a pitcher, but the problem is we have such a history of trading prospects that other teams take a hard line with us in negotions. They assume that if they say Kennnedy or no deal, we will eventually crumble and mortgage our future to please a few armchair fans. Those days are over and when the guys Cashman insisted on keeping make it to the bigs, you’ll be singing his praises.
This yrs team might not have the bullpen to win. Clemens might retire without making it back to the playoffs. But that would be the fault of the guys who didnt hit in the 1st half, and bad luck for a stupid number of injuries. In time we’ll win big.
On the subject of Giambi’s return, how’s this for a solution to the lineup quandry:
Play him at 1B.
It makes sense on a lot of levels. Sure he has no range and can’t turn a 3-6-3. But he picks it OK. And, frankly, if he gets on base in the 6th+ inning of a tight game, he’s getting lifted for a pinch runner in all likelihood anyway. You can bring in Philips as a pinch runner and/or defensive replacement.
You can platoon Giambi and Phillips at 1B, maybe mixing in Giambi at DH on a day you play Damon in CF or LF and give Melky, Matsui or Abreu a rest.
All that said — and this goes for Farnsworth, too, as other posters have pointed out — if I were Cashman, I’d look at the possibility of trying to sneak Giambi through waivers and trade him. Maybe you get lucky and someone picks him up.
Damon’s arm would never survive RF.
I’m glad the Sox didnt get Dye though. He isnt that great a player but they’d get another pick in the draft when he leaves in the summer. Now they are stuck with Wily Mo.
Wayne we cant play Giambi at 1st. He cant play it well enough and would hurt himself again for sure.
He will play most games as DH. He will get some rest though and Damon or Matsui will DH. Cabrera will fill in at all outfield spots and those guys will all get the odd day off. Extra rest is good for these guys. We just need to make sure we get Melky some ABs. Gives us the pinch hitting and general bench players we needed early on.
And Milwalkee is right. If you sit Abreu in any game, Cabrera plays right and Damon centre.
kasey,
I don’t think Cashman relied on Pavano to be healthy. I think he took a risk – that Pavano would pitch a few quality starts so his trade value would rise – that didn’t pan out.
If Cashman had relied on Pavano, he would have dealt away Karstens and Rasner and he probably wouldn’t have signed Igawa.
You say that Cashman can’t be faulted for signing Pavano in the first place. Well if that’s the case, Cashman can’t be faulted for holding onto Pavano at the start of 2007 season either. What could the Yankees have gotten for Pavano in the 2006 offseason? Was it really that unlikely that we’d get a few decent starts from Pavano in 2007?
I think the Yankees have improved quite a bit from June to now. I count 8 Upgrades & lots of potential in minors for future. It looks great to me!
C – Posada (Same)
C – Molina vs Nieves (Upgrade)
1B-Phillips & Giambi vs Phelps/Cairo (Upgrade)
2B-Cano (Same)
SS-Jeter (Same)
3B-AROD (Same)
INF-Betemit/Cairo vs Basak/Cairo (Upgrade)
RF-Abreu (Same)
CF-Cabrera (Same)
LF-Matsui (Same)
OF-Damon (Same)
DH-Damon/Giambi/Betemit vs Damon (Upgrade)
SP1. C. Wang
SP2. A. Pettitte
SP3. P. Hughes vs Wright/DeSalvo/Iggy (Upgrade)
SP4. R. Clemens
SP5. M. Mussina
SP6/Long RP J. Karstens (Upgrade)
Bullpen
CL – M. Rivera
RP1- L. Vizcaino
RP2- Joba Chamberlain (Upgrade) 99-100 MPH AAA
RP3- B. Bruney
RP4- M. Myers
RP5- E. Ramirez vs K. Farnsworth (Upgrade)
RP6- R. Villone
RP7- S. Henn
Alternatives
RP- Jose Veras @ AAA off DL 92-95 MPH
RP- Ross Ohlendorf @ AAA Hit 97 MPH in Relief
RP- Whelan
RP- Cox (2008)
RP- Melencon (2008)
RP- Robertson (2008)
SP Ian Kennedy (2008)
SP Alan Horne (2008)
SP Darrell Rasner (OFF DL Soon)
SP Humberto Sanchez (2008)
SP Jeff Marquez (2009)
SP Betances (2009)
SP Brackman (2010)
WOO HOO! what a day.
I love BALTIMORE!!
I love TEXAS!!
and in a couple of hours I’ll love LA(Anaheim)