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Panic is funny. Check this out.
American League East
Boston 68-45
New York 63-50
“I’m not thinking about the wild card. We play to win the division.” — Derek Jeter.
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on Wednesday, August 8th, 2007 at 12:58 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings joined the The Journal News in October 2009, having spent the better part of seven years covering baseball in Scranton, PA. He is a graduate of the University of Missouri and an award-winning beat reporter and features writer. E-mail me at cjennings@lohud.com
Sam Borden is an award-winning journalist who joined The Journal News
and LoHud.com in January 2008. He covered the Yankees for the New York
Daily News from 2004-06, and has also worked as a columnist for the
Florida Times-Union in Jacksonville. E-mail me at sborden@lohud.com
Josh Thomson has done some of everything since joining The Journal News in March 2003. He began working for the Gannett weeklies during the winter of 2002 as a freelance writer. He joined the daily staff soon after and has since covered various high school and pro sports. E-mail me at jthomson@lohud.com
Copyright ©2009 The Journal News, a Gannett Co. Inc. newspaper serving Westchester, Rockland and Putnam counties in New York.
I just visited that Boston Dirt Dog website and I think I need a shower..
I like the headline you put to this post, by the way what’s the status with Farnsworth and with the Post reporting that he cleared waivers? and by the way A-Rod is listed as day to day and Wilson Betemit will probably play tonight 3B.
Wow, I love how composed and reasonable Sox fans are.
Like I told my brother, winning the Wild Card is fine and all, but beating Boston is just that much more fun.
A.B.K.,
Thanks for the tip on Farnsworth. I hope it’s true. Here’s a link to the story for anyone wondering. It’s the sixth paragraph down on the first page
http://www.nypost.com/seven/08.....herman.htm
Peter…you STOLE MY LINE !!! Can I sue you ??? LOL…of course, joking sir.,,…we ARE comin’ arent’ we ???
If you’ve ever lived in MA (awful thought, I know. But what I had to endure for 5 years of school), one of the nicest things to see as a tourist up there is the fear in the Sox fans eyes when the Yanks start to surge. And yes, I feel like I need to fully sanitize myself after visiting that site.
Wow. I haven’t seen that kind of propaganda since the cold war.
There’s a lot of insecurity there.
30% of the fans voted for “It’s 1978 all over again.”
Munson15,
I know what you mean! It’s the greatest. I was there for school also. Unfortunately, that included the year they won the WS.
Talk about rediculous. I realized that there was no mention in there of how stellar our offense is AND our pitching. Regardless of the competition. They were the same teams we were playing in the first half and have improved drastically.
Not panicking
\Sox Fan
\\Standing alone
http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....x_yankees/
Here’s the “propaganda”. Too funny. Don’t forget to vote at the end.
Ya see, I’ve never understood all the hype behind Tim Wakefield. He is anything but consistent, throws one pitch, rarely dominates with that pitch, and yet he has been in Boston’s rotation for years.
Let’s enjoy this, but not speak too soon.
We have a long and challenging road ahead of us this August.
Check out some Sox blogs.
The hysteria and panic are comedy.
You got to love crazy Sox fans.
Give the Yanks credit. The Sox had two chances to bury them. I mean stick the fork in them done. And the Yanks took 2 out of 3 both times.
Larry,
The best line I heard in days was an Angels broadcaster saying he got hit by one of Wakefield’s pitches, and it felt like a mosquitoe bite.
Looking at the division is fine but ultimately I think Wild Card is our ticket in. We won’t play this hot forever and Boston won’t strugle forever with their pitching, the lead will fluctuate like it has all year. If I remember correctly we were with in 4.5 before the Rockies/ Giants Series.
We have some really tough teams coming while the Red Sox play the Devil Rays 1500 times so don’t expect a Division takeover in the next week or two…
It’d be almost nice to see the Yankees as the Wild Card, finally the underdog sort of.
“Ya see, I’ve never understood all the hype behind Tim Wakefield. He is anything but consistent, throws one pitch, rarely dominates with that pitch, and yet he has been in Boston’s rotation for years.”
He throws alot of innings, makes everystart, rarely is injured, and is better than most 4th/5th starters in baseball.
He’s a nice steady pitcher for them.
Forget Boston. Forget the WC.
Just keep playing the kind of baseball they have been for 60 games.
If they do, they won’t have to worry about anything.
I read a stat yesterday that was kind of quirky. Tim Wakefield is the only pitcher to get a decision in each of his starts.
I just visit the website and casted my vote for the Yankees.
The Sox guys have some points – our schedule is better now and tougher later so we really need to go full speed at the games.
Today will be a true test facing Halliday…
mel,
That is awesome.
Its true though, right?
Does anyone ‘fear’ an at bat against Tim Wakefield? Does anyone not know EXACTLY what is coming every time they go to the plate? I am not saying it is easy to hit a knuckle ball, but is it really THAT effective…only in the rare occurances in which Wakefield is able to throw it for strikes consistently.
*cough* Aaron Boone *cough*
They’re up 5 and they’re acting like this???
Imagine if they lost this lead.
Wakefield is what he is.
A solid #5 starter. You can’t ask for more out of your 5 starter than innings and quality starts and he gives them that.
A tad more reliable than Igawa, Pavano and the crew.
I’m all for more revenge for 2004. I don’t think I’ll ever really get over it. That hurt more than anything to see that happen as a fan.
That said, last season we systematically ended their season in 5 games. That was step one.
If we can take first place back from them this season, it will be the second larger step we need to take to exorcise the demons of 2004.
This would be a colossal collapse if they lost the division this season to the Yankees. It would be another legendary choke for a team with a history of many legendary chokes. We choked once.
I don’t think we can do this singlehandedly. We need help and the team that usually beats the Red Sox, outside of the Yanks, is the Red Sox.
I love watching them implode. There are so many unlikable characters on that team and when we face them later this month, Youkilis better not be pulling any of his tough guy antics.
This is a different Yankee team than earlier in the season and I don’t they are going to be intimidated by anyone, including the closer with the bad arm who pulls the cap over his eyes.
I think one of the most pivotal moments this season was Arod taking him deep to win a game in Fenway. I hope he does it again this season.
When you read what the fans and media are saying, it’s almost a mirror image on the first 2 months of our season. How Francona favors veterans and how he’s too nice to them. How they should DFA Tavarez, Drew, Willy Mo and Lugo to save their season. How if they don’t bring up Buckholtz, then they don’t want to win. How trading Gabbard for Gagne was a huge mistake since they need Gabbard in the rotation. How they play not to lose, instead of to win.
It’s amazing how the fortunes have reversed.
The only thing that concerns me is that sometimes when they play us, we serve to ignite them. I’m not sure if that’s going to happen this season, but I think when they are not playing the Yankees, they are not a focused team.
Hopefully, they are scared we’ve gotten this close (which I think they whole organization and city are) and the panic will weigh on them.
I think the only place they are better than us is in the depth of the bullpen. I like our rotation better and our lineup and defense much better.
Can’t wait to see how it shakes out.
Go Yanks!
Any update on Rocket – will he get a suspension?
You cannot look to future schedule to predict performance.
It just doesn’t work like that.
You do not know who will be playing well, who’s hurt, who gets hot, who slumps, who pitches, who starts hitting, blown calls, pressure, etc.
That is why baseball is a great game. It is unpredictable.
On paper Sox may have an easy schedule for the next 2 weeks but who know’s.
Global Warming,
I understand the value of inning eaters, no doubt, and that is probably the sole value of having Wakefield as a starter.
Personally, he’d be in my bullpen for long relief. The ‘rarely injured’ factor is fine and all and goes along well with the inning eater/makes every start bit, but I still don’t buy his being particularly ‘valuable’. Maybe to a team like Pittsburgh, but for a team that actually competes? Not so much.
Boston is acting like we did in May.
DFA everyone. Trade everyone.
Just threw a nice vote for 1978 on that blog.
Asst Manager,
I agree, but comparing him to Igawa and Pavano isn’t saying much.
Speaking of Igawa, I wonder what his fate will be. Teams will attempt to buy him on the cheap, but hopefully the Yankees will throw him out there a couple times in relief next season to get some value in return…like a PTBNL.
How do you like that E-ROC…PTBNL! I am learning!!!
Hey Larry,
Who is a better 5th starter than Wakefield right now?
If only all teams listened to Don Mattingly’s analogy of Wakefield and his advice to Yankee hitters: “If the pitch is high, let it fly”.
Igawa is terrible but I hope we did learn our lesson from the Contreras thing. You don’t give up a guy too soon. Igawa may be a NL type pitcher and he may be a 5th starter but you dont give him away for peanuts.
Now Im not comparing the two since Contreras has ace stuff. But Igawa had success in Japan and why give up on him too early?
You can never have enough pitching
Bloomy,
Totally agree with your points – these games are just like what happens in life. You know you are going to get some chocolate but never know exactly what flavor you are going to get…
Nothing we can ever do will erase the shame of our total collapse in 2004
Parker,
Phil Hughes.
dontfirecash,
not yet
In the end I think the Sox and the Yanks will both be there and we’ll be seeing another 7 game classic.
This time they won’t have to send Lieber, Vazquez and Brown out there.
Parker,
Phil Hughes.
I’d take Hughes over Wakefield any day of the week.
But I’m considering Hughes our 4 starter.
I think Mussina is 5.
YanksSox is nervous.
That’s why he is spending more time here. They are going nutty in Boston.
I guess Moose and Wake are pretty comprable this season…Though Moose seems to have pitched better of late.
Wakefield is the least of their problems right now.
David Wells may get cut by the Padres. Looks like a career may be over.
“Who is a better 5th starter than Wakefield right now?”
The guy eats innings and has 13 wins. And their offense is not particularly dominant, so that means he’s keeping them in games to get all those decisions. He gets crushed when his one trick isn’t working. Most of the time, it works well enough. His ERA is decent, and he is pretty much a guaranteed quality start. He’s everything you want in a 4/5 starter.
Sure, Phil Hughes could show himself to be better over the course of the season…and the Yankees are kind of banking on it. He certainly has more upside. But Wake is a solid pitcher.
Parker,
In that case, Mussina.
Either of them are better.
OK, to clarify, I don’t think Wakefield sucks or that he is not valuable…I am just not convinced that he is worthy of a starter slot on the Red Sox.
Then again, maybe this is a typical Red Sox move
I never want to see Igawa in pinstripes again. I don’t care if he wins the Cy Young someplace else.
Uh, Brooklyn Doug, Contreras has ace stuff? Your ace has never won more than 15 games (only once at that) and right now is 5-14 with 154 hits given up in 121 innings. He’s got a 1.65 WHIP and big 69 ERA+. Thank goodness the Yankees gave up on him. He’s a below-average pitcher who had one decent year with the White Sox.
About a week ago I wrote that by the time the new Stadium opens, many will be comparing the Yanks trio of Hughes, Chamberlain & Kennedy to the early 2000 A’s staff of Mulder, Hudson & Zito….Difference will be that the trio from the Bronx posses electric stuff which will account for many more punchouts as they just overpower lineups……Throw the Veteran Wang into the mix, and the staff will be considered one of the best in the MLB…..
Nevermind the Boston Red Sox, check this out:
Wang and Halladay cancel each other out today.
The Yankees catch a break with C.C. Sabathia scheduled to start for Cleveland today which means they will not face him
or Jake Westbrook (who pitched last night) this weekend in Cleveland. They will draw Felix Carmona, whoever the fifth starter is (I know it’s a guy they sent down Chris Lee to call up), and Paul Byrd in the final game.
If Baltimore’s ace Erik Bedard starts vs. Boston on Sat.8/11 and an extra day of rest, the Yanks will not face him next week (8/13-15).
“If I remember correctly we were with in 4.5 before the Rockies/ Giants Series. ”
the Yankees were 8.5 games behind on June 17th, the day they beat the Mets in the last game before the Rockies series.
Wakefield has won 13 games. Not bad for a #5 starter.
He’s also pitched 142 innings.
Impressive. Saves the pen. Keeps you in games. I’m no Wake guy but that is all you want from that slot.
wondering if Pete can get any other quotes like Alex Rodriguez ones… we all know he is the reason this season is still alive. If we make the playoffs we all will all look back to 9th inning at Fenway Park Alex Rodriguez vs Jonathon Papelbon.
I’m sorry I just feel like that must be said.
Wonder if there’s any way we can convince Boomer to come be our lefty in the pen if he gets released.
Stranger things have happened you know.
He still doesn’t walk a lot of people. A last roundup in the Bronx might help him rediscover something before he packs it in.
I think he just burned too many bridges over the years to ever get a chance to come back.
Since Wakefield became a starter in ‘02
ERA+ 157 115 100 106 100 94
Mussina
ERA+ 108 129 98 101 125 94
Just saying Wakefield has been more than serviceable and he keeps the Bullpen rested in most of his starts
Sox “fans” are indeed funny — its part of a larger Boston inferiority complex regarding New York.
But let’s be honest. How many Yankee “fans” on this site threw in the towel earlier in the season and then climbed back on the bandwagon? I won’t name names, but they all there in the archives.
In any event, 50 games is a long season.
I don’t care about Contreras win totals.
All I said was he had ace stuff. Which he had. I use past tense because he looks terrible this year.
For a refresher go take a look at the Chicago White Sox post season dvd from 2005.
If you doubt Jose’s stuff.
I wouldn’t be suprised if Boomer goes to Atlanta
Wakefield is the perfect 5th starter. They aren’t expecting ace type starts with him.
PAT M,
I appreciate your optimism, really, I do.
That, however, is a long way off and something that will have to play itself out.
Who knows how Kennedy will fare in the bigs? Chamberlain appears to be the biggest talent and Hughes should be solid, but anything can happen in a two year span.
I’ll never forgive Boomer for coming up lame in Game 5 in 2003.
where is igawa right now anyway ? i think he’s still on the roster … but i havent seen him lately .
Dr. Meehan,
Maybe for the Red Sox he is the perfect 5th starter.
Not for the Yankees.
Can we not engrave the plaques in Cooperstown just yet for Hughes, Joba, and Kennedy?
I’m surprised you didn’t put Horne and Marquez in there too.
I hope they can be what the A’s starters were. I hope they can be what the Braves threesome was. There is a good chance they will. But take it slow. If two of them are good, I’ll take it.
It is a good thing to actually have this issue to be talked about. Kudos to Cashmoney. These hard throwers are going to come in waves.
ALl the guys sitting out this yr with TJ surgery are going to be raring to go by the middle of the next yr.
Chris, At the moment, the Iguana is stinking up Scranton.
Larry,
Be serious.
You would have jumped at the chance to have Wakefield in April and May.
I know I would have. I got sick to my stomach watching Desalvo and Igawa trot out there. Not to mention that winner Pavano.
_Not to mention that winner Pavano_
Dr Meehan, I can’t believe u called Pavano a Winner.
Igawa is a soft tossing lefty who can’t get his off speed stuff over. He throws his fastball one speed. 90 and straight. Is it a wonder he’s getting lit even in Trip A?
I thought it was a waste of money in December.
That 46 mil could have been used on a lot of things.
That’s 46 good latin prospects.
That’s a solid number on a Dice K bid.
Plenty of good things.
Bloomy,
I would throw Horne in the Cooperstown mix as well..Haha. No seriously though, Horne is nasty. He is way better than Marquez IMO and I think the reason both of them have struggled recently is that they are both over their innings totals from ‘06.
With the ladies Carl has dated and the paycheck he gets for doing nothing I guess one can call him a winner. If that’s what gets them going.
I’d love to have an all farm system rotation of dominant strike throwers.
But realistically I doubt that’s possible. But thank God we are actually discussing the possibility.
But we are 3/5’s there actually 4 if Pettitte stays.
So, its not that far fetched.
My predicition?
They trade 3 of those arms not named Phil and Joba for a guy named Johan.
Wakefield can never be used out of the pen unless he comes in to start an inning.
If he inherits runners. there’s a good chance that a knuckler gets away from his personal catcher (Mirabelli) and the runners move up or even score. It’s happened in the past.
A few yrs ago we had a farm system that had one prospect in it.
Eric Duncan.
There incompetence cost us the 2004 World Series as Randy Johnson would have been here in July if we had anything.
I’m glad we finally put our vast resources to work.
Any word on the 2007 draft signees? Especially the late rd over slot guys?
I don’t know where these scouts come from that call Kennedy a 3 starter at best.
He was nasty the time I saw him. A little guy. I thought of Tim Hudson.
The Yanks will not trade for Santana.
He is a free agent at the end of the 08′ season and they will have the opportunity to sign him.
One can only imagine what the Twins would be asking for in return and you can bet your @ss that Hughes and/or Chamberlain would be on that list.
You don’t trade the best pitcher in the game for anything less than the other team’s best prospect(s).
Joba and Hughes won’t be prospects by next year. They will have played for the Yanks already.
I know Santana could be signed free after next yr but wouldn’t you want him on your team for ‘08 and be the only one able to sign him?
Jeter’s quote reminds me of that famous Herm Edwards line:
“You play…to win…the game.”
We beat weak teams like Chicago, who swept Detroit in three games, and won three out of five games vs Detroit in a series in late July. So 6 out of 8 games, the Chi Sox won against Detroit. We beat teams like KC, who won 2 out of 3 vs Detroit and 2 out of 3 vs Boston, both on the road, and are 11-6 since the all star break not including Yankee games. Very poor team. I’ll give people Tampa as a weak team.
The Yankees are playing excellent ball, against some not as poor competition as some people think. Did anyone see how well Toronto has been playing before we came into town?
It’s nice that we are cutting the gap with Boston, but I don’t think the Yankees or we fans should concern ourselves with Boston at this time. Come the middle of October when we are playing in the ALCS, yes but I think both teams are making the playoffs.
In fact I think the playoffs will be litterred with our most recent postseason nemesises, Detroit, Anaheim and Boston.
Unfortunately we only get to beat two of them on the way to the World Series. Good news is starting Friday we get a preview over the next 20 games and we can beat some sense into them all.
Let’s enjoy these 20 games, because with the exception of 3 Red Sox games, September is going to be another cakewalk where the team will cruise into October. Be afraid AL contenders, be very afraid.
I’m not a minor league expert but I’ve never seen 2 top 4 prospects in the game traded for one player.
If Minny deems him available I think they’ll go for 3 prospects. Pitching prospects. The Yankees can conceivably offer a great package without including Hughes and Chamberlain.
Let me sit back and dream of Santana fronting a Wang, Hughes, Chamberlain, Pettitte rotation.
RyanM,
Don’t forget we beat the Angels. We beat Minnesota. We beat the Mets.
That’s a pretty solid group of teams.
You play who is on your schedule.
This is the major leagues. Not college football.
There are no cupcakes.
Viper – the Yankees will definitely be interested if the Twins state that they are allowing a window for extension talks. That would force the Yankees’ hand, because then Santana wouldn’t be a free agent after the ‘08 season. In fact, expect that to happen if Minny is out of it before the trade deadline: it interests teams that want him long-term, and it nets Minnesota a much, much better haul. As much as I’d love the Yankees to get Santana, I don’t realistically think he will ever pitch for them.
Check Ian Kennedy’s numbers, I think you’ll be rather impressed…You can also look at his resumw at USC, where only Mark Prior had a very slight sedg in K’S PER 9….Better than Randy Johnson, better than Tom Seaver…..There are scouts that feel he’s the more polished pitcher of ther trio, better command of his arsenal of pitches….Hey you can take me to task in a few years, however the chances for success out weights the likely hood for failure…..Injuries are always what they can be…..This is not Prior & Wood being abused by the Cubs…These lads have been micro managed since they signed……YOU HEARD IT HEAR…….
I’ve been repeating this over and over again, but why not keep it going?
The Yankees have won 7 of their last 8 series against teams with a .500 record or better. Other than a bad week in Colorado and San Francisco, the Yankees have been on fire for 2 months.
This is NOT a “post All-Star break run against bad teams”. It’s a “the starting rotation is now healthy and Matsui, Cano and Abreu are themselves again” run. In other words, the team you’re seeing now is more indicative of the kind of teams that the Yankees really are than the team that struggled for those first two months or that week in June. Yes, they’ll stub their toe again this year, they’re not an .800 team but they are really good, IMO, way better than the Red Sox.
Oh and the Yankees also won their last two series against Boston. That should be mentioned as well.
It’s an exciting time to be a Yank fan. With all these young stud pitchers on the way up.
We’ve all seen Atlanta dominate for a decade and Oakland dominate for a solid 5 yrs because of young pitching.
We could do what they couldn’t. Keep that young pitching and also add around it.
Those Sawx fans are just whack jobs. And the fact that they think the Yanks are toast just because the schedule gets tougher shows they’re clueless — the Yanks won 5 of 7 before the Break against the Twins and Angels.
The Yanks’ problem was not beating the weak to middling teams (1-3 v. TB, 1-3 v. Toronto, 0-3 v. Colorado, 1-2 v. SF, 2-4 v. A’s, all before the Break; still just 3-6 against O’s). They’d done decent to well against some of the better teams they’d played (3-0 v. ‘Zona, 5-2 v. Twinkies, 3-0 v. Indians, 5-7 v. RedSawx when Sawx were playing like 1984 Tigers, 3-3 v. Mess; but just 2-4 against the dang Angels, as usual, and 3-4 v. M’s).
I’m just hoping this is like 1977 – when the Yanks were 50-42 at the Break and 50-20 afterwards and beat the Rangers, Twins and Chisax so badly (won 13 of 15) that the Yanks basically won the AL West for the Royals while winning the East for themselves. If they catch the RedSawx, fine. If not, and they win the Wild Card, also fine. But if the latter, they da*n well better beat the effing Angels for once.
Don’t forget this about Kennedy and his USC numbers. He had a so-so last yr there and they were still on par with Prior.
It won’t happen. They aren’t going to trade for Santana.
C’mon, stop living in fantasyland.
And if you think the Twins would trade Santana for anything less than Hughes or Chamberlain in return (plus other top prospects), you don’t understand how this thing works.
Imagine the Yanks trying to trade Whitey Ford in his prime.
Would you settle for anything less than the other team’s best young players?
No chance.
Hey, I love Hughes and Joba as much as the next guy. But these guys haven’t done it in the majors yet.
There is only one best pitcher in the majors and his name is Johan Santana.
There is NO CHANCE he comes to the Yankees in a trade in 2008.
It’s amazing what a healthy starting rotation can do for a team.
I’d give good money to see them beat the Angels.
And I mean in the playoffs, I saw them beat the Angels earlier this year 14-9 =D
By November you don’t know how some teams will feel about Kennedy or Betances or Marquez or whoever.
The Twins might value those guys and think that by getting 3 of them they are ahead of the game.
Kinda like the A’s and Mulder. Everyone bashed that trade too. But Haren turned out ok, right?
Might be better than getting 2 draft picks for him.
You don’t know what Minny will do. No one does. They don’t even know.
My guess is they play it out and see where they are on July 15 next yr. They have a now team. Especially if Liriano comes back.
Twinkies will be looking for a Hershel Walker type trade
I think Santana will probably want to hit free agency. Why wouldn’t he? He’s the best pitcher in the game and he is going to cash in in free agency. I don’t think he will grant a team a window to negotiate an extension which will significantly hurt the package the twins would get in return because he would basically be a two month rental. I could be wrong, but I think he will hit the free agent market after next season
Santana already gave the Twins a discount when he signed his last deal.
Why wouldn’t he give the team that trades for him a shot to lock him up if they blow his doors off and he likes it there?
Its easy to say I’ll hit FA. Harder when a team like the Yankees offers you 18 mill a yr for 7 yrs.
_That would force the Yankees’ hand, because then Santana wouldn’t be a free agent after the ‘08 season. In fact, expect that to happen if Minny is out of it before the trade deadline: it interests teams that want him long-term_
When was the last time the Twins were “out of it� before the trade deadline?
It hasn’t happened since Gardenhire took over as manager and they may even have Francisco Liriano as well next season. The Twins aren’t going to have a fire sale because they’ve been in the thick of the pennant race over the last several years.
I expect next season to be no different.
I think if Minny was smart they’d put him up during the off season where they can get every team involved. In season it becomes a lot tougher.
If hes not traded during the hot stove, I don’t see him getting moved. Because Minny will be in it next year and I cannot see them dealing their ace when they are in a race.
You saw how 24 guys basically erupted after they traded Luis Castillo.
Imagine Santana for 4 prospects?
I think the Twinkies would be stupid NOT to trade Santana. They have no chance of signing him and the haul they could get could give them a chance to contend in the future. That being said, If I’m the Yanks, I don’t give up Joba or Hughes for him. Maybe they would take a Kennedy/Horne/somebody else package. Who Knows? But I think they should trade him.
Let me play devil’s advocate…have any big money contracts for pitchers ever panned out? Why not put the money to better use than on Santana? Is he really worth $25M / year?
In one word. Yes. Santana is worth 25 mil a yr.
Lefty. Young. Best pitcher in the game. Never been hurt.
Every pitcher is a risk.
You may as well risk it on the best.
Sandy Kofax yes…..Santana ????
I do think Santana is why Cashman didn’t trade some of the prospects like Kennedy.
He’d rather trade them for an ace than a bullpen FA to be.
Who cares what they pay him.
Has overpaying for anyone ever hurt the Yankees? Has it effected anything they do?
It’s just numbers. Santana is the best in the game.
By 2008 20 mill might be a low number for him.
he is going to have the NY teams, Bos, LA teams, Chi teams all bidding. It could be 30 mill.
Think about this. Let your minds wander.
Santana
Hughes
Wang
Chamberlain
All under 30. All dominant. All with dif styles.
Oh my.
Devils advocate Loren
Santana
Dice K
Beckett
Lester
All 30 and under.
That is why you trade for him and lock him up.
Thoughts of Johan are great. And if Minny were smart they’d sign him today.
But I’m more concerned with tonights game.
I want the sweep.
‘Has overpaying for anyone ever hurt the Yankees?’
Yes. Damon / Giambi. Can’t move their contracts. Kevin Brown. Couldn’t move him and was stuck with him and his bad back for a season too long. Farnsworth. Can’t move him and he is stuck in the bullpen without a role, unless you consider him a one inning mop-up man.
Who do the Sux have to offer…..Maybe Minn. would be interested in owning the Pawkuckett franchise
I think it’s pretty safe to say Johan Santana would be a welcome addition to any staff.
I agree Santana would be a great addition. I just hope the Yanks don’t tie up too much capital (potentially) in him that prevents them from paying for other needs (OF).
These are the Yankees. They can’t eat a contract? They do it all the time.
No contract has ever burdened the Yankees.
The Pavano contract would have made teams inoperable.
They don’t care. They still do business. They still improve. They can afford to make those mistakes.
And if you think Johan Santana would be a mistake you don’t know baseball.
(Sigh). I enjoy the daydreams that some of you are posting about Santana, but they are not grounded in reality.
*If* the Twins trade Santana, then Terry Ryan, who is one of the absolute best GMs in the business will get the three or four very top prospects from the recieving club’s organization. With Hughes and Chamberlain off the table, the Yankees don’t have those players. Kennedy and Horn project to middle/end of the rotation; Tabata has not shown
a track record for power; AJAX has a quarter of a season under his belt. The lower Aand GCL guys don’t help the Twins. So all very good, maybe one day even great players, but no primo-can’t-miss prospects ready for MLB 2008, and that means NO SANTANA.
What needs do the Yanks have in the OF?
They got Abreu under a very friendly option for next yr.
Matsui is in his prime. Damon is a great 4th OF
And Melky is a legit CF.
What do they need there???
All I want to say is that people have been doubting this team and managment all year long. Not only has our team responded with great resolve and confidence, a debt of gratitude is owed to Joe Torre! He has been through it all over the past few years especially this year. Somehow Someway he always seems to pul the team together, what a great leader we have within this entire yankee organization! They truley are America’s team in America’s capital! LETS BRING ONE HOME!! GOD BLESS THE USA!!
Great stat/fact from Joel Shermans blog:
Borowksi, Weathers, Al Reyes, Bob Wickman and Alan Embree – ex-Yanks all – have combined for 100 saves.
phil, those are all roster issues, not necessarily money issues. the only possibility might be the shef/vlad deal, but that’s probably more of roster/full outfield thing too.
You can count on Santana to hit the FA market after next season.
And it wouldn’t shock me if he gets 25 mil a yr.
Brandon,
Jeter was very vocal last year when the Yanks fell behind that their goal was to win the division (and we know how that turned out) and he’s been vocal again this year that their goal is the same. Those are the things Captain’s do…they lead. His confidence and desire to win the division trickles down to the other players, especially the younger ones. Arod has been the MVP of the team, no doubt about it. But Jeter still drives the ship.
I can count the underpaid guys in sports on my hand.
No one or contract is untradeable!
If Mike Hampton got moved, twice, anyone can get moved.
I’d be disappointed in the team if they gave up the goal of winning the division.
That’s not Jeter.
Yes, overpaying greatly affects the Yankees and their fans. All money flows from the fan in various ways, so we pay the tab. The myth of the bottomless pit of money is used by MLB, etc. as a prop to fire up fans of other teams. And to prod the players’ union. This is the 2nd or 3rd season in which those who predicted the Yankees would spend big at the trading deadline
have been wrong. They operate at a loss. There are obvious changes going on within the organization and its tv network. They’ve been sending over $100 million a year to other teams in rev. sharing and payroll tax. What’s being done with that money? The Santana issue is mostly a media creation of the Minnesota baseball writers who’d have nothing to write about if they couldn’t trash the Yankees.
Susan, dear.
The Yanks are going to draw over 4 mill again and the ratings on YES are huge.
Obviously, fans do not care about cost or price. They’ll keep coming and spending.
And the Yanks didnt make a move because they wanted to protect the farm. Not because something wasn’t affordable.
Santana is the best pitcher in baseball and has been for several years no. The only person I wouldn’t trade for him is Hughes.
I’ll believe a teams accountants and their thoughts on their books when I believe in Santa.
“They operate at a loss.”
Are you using the flawed Forbe reports that don’t account for any of the revenue from YES? The Yankees definitely do not operate at a loss.
I’d give up Hughes to get Santana.
It’s not like hes 35 and past his prime.
I don’t think Damon will be here next season unless he wants to ride the bench. We all know he’ll gripe about playing time as that has already happened. Brett Gardener, Kevin Thompson, & Bronson Sardinha would fit in very nicely as a 4th outfielder. I don’t think the Yankees will pick up Abooboo’s option, but they will sign him to a three year contract with the third year being a team option. He isn’t worth $16 million.
Santana is a VERY good pitcher but he’s not worth 25 – 30 mil a year, especially since it will be a 6 or 7 year deal. Let him go blow his arm out on someone else’s dime.
What’s Santana worth then?
Do you have the teams finances? What if he’s worth 45 mill? How do we know? Who cares how much they make?
In your reasoning the only players worth the money are rookies making the min.
Why would he blow out his arm? If your going to spend money like the Yankees do everyyear, you might as well spend it on Santana.
And yes Santana would be worth every penny of that 25-30 Million per. If he went to an NL team like the Mets he’d be a god over in that weak hitting league.
I see Santana being part of a sign and trade next year since the Twins would rather move him than lose him for nothing. I really hope the Yankees throw every prospect they got for Santana…..minus Hughes and Chamberlain of course.
Sorry countryclub.
He’s not good.
Santana is GREAT.
I’d give Santana a blank check.
A lefty ace with dominant stuff who’s pitched in playoff games. Under 30!
Those guys do not come around often.
He is worth 30 mill. If the Yanks can pay Pavano 10 and Zito gets 17, what do you think a durable ace will get???
Santana is the best pitcher of the decade and he’s left handed. I hope the Yanks sign him or CC to start in ‘09 at the new ballpark. Imagine an ‘09 rotation of Johan/Sabathia, Wang, Hughes, Chamberlain, Kennedy/Horne..SICK!
Cashman is going to throw every prospect out at Minnesota this off season.
The possibility of Santana being moved will be the story of the Hot Stove.
If Santana is in the top 3 in the Cy Young voting this season then I think he has a full NTC next year. After watching a mediocre pither like Zito cash in on the free agent market, he has to be thinking about a massive payday. If I were him, I’d either refuse to be traded or refuse to agree to an extension with any team trying to trade for me. Then I’d become the richest pitcher in baseball history.
Don’t forget Sabathia. He’ll get 20 mil too.
Lefty, durable. Young. Winner.
Peavy, Sheets
Could be a ton of great pitchers on the ‘08 market.
I wouldn’t trade for Santana. You can sign him when he becomes a free agent. If not, then we’ll know what Joba, Phil, & Kennedy are made of. We don’t NEED Santana, IMO. Getting him would luxury that we can’t afford, given the age of this team.
Lets see what Zambrano gets this winter
If Zito got 17
Carlos will get 22
And Santana will get 25 minimum
So is Santana for one year worth a Joba or Hughes, because if you throw the farm at him, he will still be a free agent after the offseason.
Age of the team?
We could go into ‘08 with 4 starters under 30
23 yr olds at 2b, CF
In your prime guys at SS, 3b, LF
How is that old?
Not to mention the huge number of talented pitchers in the system
YanksSox is just jealous they can’t offer anything for Santana.
Sorry but Bucholz doesnt get it done
“Sorry but Bucholz doesnt get it done”
I’m sorry that your the GM of the Twins and know what they would take. This has nothing to do with the Sox, if they want to trade the farm so be it. I would rather they not, and look into the ‘08 offseason to pick up on of Sheets, Peavy, Santana.
Just classic. Classic.
Just sent the rearview mirror to all my Boston friends.
Bucholz is nasty but other than that the Sux ain’t got much. Masterson is looking good at AA, so he’s probably there second best pitching prospect. Bowden has been sucking it up at AA, Hansen has been bad at AAA and Bard has been a disaster at low A. And John Lester hasn’t looked great in the majors so far(admittedly its only been a few starts, but he has had poor control in the minors). The Sux truly do suck.
It’s not the per year salary that really bothers me, it’s the length of the deal. I know he’s under 30 and he’s a lefty, but the odds are better that he’ll get hurt than they are he wont. Sign him to 4 yrs/100 mil and I’m on board. 7 yrs/175mil? No thanks. It’s the same reason I dont want the yanks to sign AROD long term. I hope he doesnt opt out of his current contract, but if he does, let him walk.
New Roc City–Fellow Yankee fans were discussing trade scenarios involving the Yankees and Twins for the services of Santana. It wouldn’t help the Yankees if they traded Joba, Hughes, or Kennedy, or Horne for that matter, for Santana, given the age of the rotation.
“It wouldn’t help the Yankees if they traded Joba, Hughes, or Kennedy, or Horne for that matter, for Santana, given the age of the rotation.”
The odds of any of them, even Hughes, becoming as good as Santana are very low. He’s that good.
Johan Santana has what every team needs. A solid lefthander in the rotation to neutralize any team stacked with lefthanded bats.
All the good Yankee prospects are righthanders. Santana is a must.
The Twins aren’t going to want prospects. They are going to want young guys who’ve played in MLB, plus prospects. Think like…Cano AND Joba. Or Melky and Hughes. If the deal is contingent on Santana signing an extension, that’s the kind of thing they’ll be looking for — and getting — from someone. If there’s no extension involved, then something like Kennedy and Horne or Bucholz and Ellsbury.
no A Rod in the lineup tonight. Betemit at 3rd, Giambi DH.
Mariano said it: “You will not appreciate something unless you go through the valley.
When you are in the valley fighting along with your teammates, that makes you strong. Then when you are on top, you remember the valley”.
So is A-rod hurt or is he just getting a day off?
kind of interested where Giambi bats…
“no A Rod in the lineup tonight. Betemit at 3rd, Giambi DH.”
Probably a good idea, though I hope Jeter gets Friday off to rest his various ailments. Thanks Scott Downs. You truly are a total jerkwad.
And, hey…how come Tallet didn’t get ejected for hitting Cano after the benches were warned?
“So is A-rod hurt or is he just getting a day off?”
He was listed as day-to-day, so I suspect his calf is still tight and they REALLY don’t want to risk him tearing it or anything. This way he gets two days off while only missing one game.
Has there been a lineup posted?
whozat- didn’t cano get hit in the hand? the ump probably thought it was unintentional. if it had been a body shot, or a knee shot like arods, he’d probably (hopefully) have been tossed.
Thanks for the response whozat and I also just heard on the fan that he is indeed sitting out tonights game with a tight calf muscle.
Jeter isn’t sitting out the opening game of the biggest series of the year (to date) which the Indians series will be.
Jeter is fine. He’s banged up, like everybody is this time of year. They have a day off tomorrow. He got a day last week. That’s going to be it for now. They need him in the lineup.
I suspect the Arod rest is twofold. One, it keeps him from being a bullseye again tonight, thus avoiding a brawl. Two, he hasn’t had a full day off for a long time. Probably longer than anybody on the team. Swing has been a little long the past few days. A sign of being tired. Its smart to give him a few days and get him ready for Cleveland.
Jeff NJ
August 8th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
no A Rod in the lineup tonight. Betemit at 3rd, Giambi DH.
where did you get the lineup at ?
tonight, and the following 20 games are huge (obviously). the next three weeks decide the season, in my opinion. (”oh, you think so, doctor?”)
they’re not trading for santana this offseason. ain’t happening.
also, no reason for the yankees to worry about the red sox or vice versa. the red sox schedule gets considerably easier soon. the yankees got fat beating up on weak teams, no reason the team with the best record in baseball shouldn’t do the same.
no reason the team with the best record in baseball shouldn’t do the same….
….how about because they are NOT PLAYING WELL ??? Are you even paying attention to how they have played the last 60 plus games, kasey ? Can you even fathom the possibility that they will remain cold, actually get bit just a tad with the same injury bug the Yankees did and continue their swoon ??? What logical reason can YOU give that they won’t just continue to falter ? Are they perfect ? Are they God Like ? Are they the King of all that is baseball ? DUDE…they are the RED SOX !!! They have not won the division in MANY YEARS….in the last 90 years, they have consistently found ways to BLOW LEADS ! Do you even know anything about their History of choking ?
“Jeter is fine.”
He’s been slumping a lot lately. Sure, he got some hits yesterday, but overall he’s hitting in the .200s for the past couple weeks. I don’t care how big that one game is, if getting him two days now makes him better for the rest of the 20 game stretch against tough opponents, you TELL him to sit. I don’t care what he wants to do. Betemit is an adequate SS and can actually hit well against righties. This is what he’s here for, to give the regulars the rest they need. Take advantage of the off day and get him two days in a row. That’s Joe’s job, to stand up to guys when what they want diverges from what’s best for the team.
The schedule is really overrated, IMO. You can only play the people in front of you each day.
In baseball, anybody can get shutdown for a few days if the opposing teams pitching is solid. Look at how a bad team like the Orioles has handled the Yankees this year.
It isn’t college football. Fact is, I LIKE the Yankees playing a tough schedule in August because it means the games also mean something for their opponents. Its a lot easier to play when both teams have something on the line.
If the Yankees continue to play well, it won’t matter who they play, they will win their share of games.
I only care or follow the Red Sox when they play the Yankees. Aside from that, I don’t allow myself to get sucked into their hype.
They are a good team but, not an invincible team. Right now, I just want the Yankees to continue to play well. The Red Sox series will be here soon enough.
Well, they’re already resting A-Rod. Who would play for Jeter now that Cairo is gone, if he was also rested tonight? I guess you’d do an entire merry-go-round in the infield? Maybe Phillips at 3rd, Betemit at SS and Duncan at 1st? Giambi is NOT playing the field, at least not yet. With a ground ball pitcher going, you need a good first baseman (Phillips). You can’t rest 2 infielders the same game. Jeter will be fine and he’ll get his rest next week.
Every player slumps for a few days. Sitting out two days sometimes does more damage for some guys because some players, and Jeter has shown to be this type of player, get out of slumps by playing, not sitting.
You ever see him on the bench when he isn’t playing? He can’t even sit still.
Jeter is fine. He’s hitting the ball hard and that’s what you look for, not the hits per se. Got a big hit last night to drive in 2 and hit the ball hard all weekend.
He’s not sitting for two days. Its tough enough to get him to sit for one. That’s what makes him a special player.
“You can’t rest 2 infielders the same game. Jeter will be fine and he’ll get his rest next week.”
I said rest Jeter on FRIDAY.
You can’t rest Jeter in the opening game of the biggest series of the season. If he had a broken hand, its 50-50 you can convince him to sit out that series. lol
A banged up hand and sore body? Not happening.
“That’s what makes him a special player.”
No, it just shows that he’s stubborn. If it was a slump caused by his timing being off, you’d be right. Sitting him wouldn’t help. But, the slump is caused by barking knees and his jammed shoulder. They won’t magically get better unless he rests.
What’s better, Betemit at short on Friday and Jeter at 90-100% for the rest of the season, or Jeter at 80-90% for the rest of the season?
“If he had a broken hand, its 50-50 you can convince him to sit out that series. lol”
It’s not his decision. You don’t have to convince him. Joe TELLS him to sit because it’s the right thing to do for the Yankees.
I don’t understand how people like KAJ can write on this forum, but Sox fans, even if they are talking about the Yanks are seen as trolls. His posts have no facts behind them and they are just ridiculous.
Can’t wait for the next 2 months
Derek Jeter at 50% is better than Wilson Betemit at 100%.
His “stubborness” is what makes him great.
Nobody is “healthy” at this point of the season. Everybody is hurting.
What makes Jeter so good is that he not only plays hurt, he sets the example for everybody else.
Wilson Betemit is a nice bench player. But, let’s not get carried away with him. If he was that good, the Dodgers never would have traded him for an overused relief pitcher.
I like the fact he is on the team but, he’s not a SS anymore (to big, and no lateral movement) and he shouldn’t play SS unless its an emergency.
Jeter isn’t hurt enough to consider playing Betemit at SS at this time. Especially for the three game series in Cleveland.
“YanksSox
August 8th, 2007 at 2:12 pm
Since Wakefield became a starter in ‘02
ERA+ 157 115 100 106 100 94
Mussina
ERA+ 108 129 98 101 125 94
Just saying Wakefield has been more than serviceable and he keeps the Bullpen rested in most of his starts”
This is just incorrect, not sure if you can’t read or if you just figured you would lie. Wakefield in 02 had an ERA+ of 157, not sure how that is relevant in this discussion. His ERA+ the last 3 years, including this year, has been league average: 106-100-94…he is declining steadily.
Moose has posted ERA+ of 101, 125, 92 the past 3 years, so he is slightly worse than Wakefield at this point, but I would say Moose is a better bet to rebound down the stretch, Wakefield started off great but has been awful since, Moose has been the opposite, plus he was hurt this year.
That’s just it. Its not the right decision to sit Derek Jeter.
Geez, the guy drove in two runs with a big RBI single last night. They have an off day on Thursday. Sitting another day isn’t going to make him “90-100%” because none of these guys are going to be 90-1005 until the off-season.
Its in the best interests of the Yankees to have Derek Jeter in the lineup. That’s why he will be in there.
Many of the smarter writers think we’ll make it. You still see people like Jacob Luft calling us “Fatally-flawed,” and Gary Gillette (who i usually like) smirking about how “desperate” we are in his chat the other day.
They would have a legit point if it wasnt distilled into a nasty little half sentence. “Fatally” flawed? Flawed, sure.
“Moose has posted ERA+ of 101, 125, 92 the past 3 years, so he is slightly worse than Wakefield at this point”
That was my point. I posted his ERA+ since he became a starter to show he was a serviceable starter.
“This is just incorrect, not sure if you can’t read or if you just figured you would lie.”
So what did I read wrong, or lie about? An ERA+ of 90 is average.
“What’s better, Betemit at short on Friday and Jeter at 90-100% for the rest of the season, or Jeter at 80-90% for the rest of the season?”
Whozat, where do you get those figures? Clearly, off the top of your head.
In any event, you miss SJ44’s point about Jeter. His attitude — like that of Paul O’Neil — seperates him from other players — like Giambi — who missed playoff games and likes to sit.
The “If he was good the Dodgers wouldn’t have traded him” is rubbish.
1. Ned Colletti is an idiot. He is scared of computers/statistics. He looked at his BA and thought “this guy sucks” without even looking at OPS.
2. The Dodgers have Andy LaRoche to play 3B and Loney to play 1B, and Betemit doesn’t project as a SS full time. They also have a top SS prospect, can’t remember his name, Hiu maybe? He was MVP of the futures game. Their outfield is full as well.
3. They were desperate for bullpen help and Proctor should be much better in the NL. I think Colletti made the move just because he felt needed to make a move, and this was the best he could work out. Both teams addressed a need.
I understand Jeter wants to “set an example” and “be tough” and “gritty” etc. but he might be hurting the team in the long run by refusing to sit out. He did sit out a few days ago and has an off day tomorrow so he should be ready to go against Cleveland.
“YanksSox
August 8th, 2007 at 5:23 pm
So what did I read wrong, or lie about? An ERA+ of 90 is average.”
I’m sorry, I misread your post. I thought you meant Wakefield had an aggregate ERA+ of 157 since 02…my bad.
At this point, I don’t think he is a serviceable 5th starter…for the past few years he has been. But seems like he’s finally lost it.
YanksSox
August 8th, 2007 at 5:18 pm
I don’t understand how people like KAJ can write on this forum, but Sox fans, even if they are talking about the Yanks are seen as trolls. His posts have no facts behind them and they are just ridiculous.
Can’t wait for the next 2 months
Oh, yes…I should be banned from the blog, and YOU should remain…All of my posts need to have facts behind them ? I guess I didn’t read that in the LoHud Yankees Blog Handbook. I, too, can’t wait for the next 2 months and we’ll just see who turns out to be ridiculous and who turns out to be right on target !
“At this point, I don’t think he is a serviceable 5th starter…for the past few years he has been. But seems like he’s finally lost it.”
I don’t think he has finally lost it, he is coming off a really bad game, but at the same time was unhittable in April. This is how Wakefield is, when his knuckleball is on he can’t be hit, and when its off he gets crushed. But every 5 days he goes out there and gives you at least 6-7 innings. I would still take him over 95% of 5th starters in the league.
Where does SJ44 get his figures that Jeter at 50% is better than Betemit at 100%? Off the top of his head.
“In any event, you miss SJ44’s point about Jeter. His attitude—like that of Paul O’Neil—seperates him from other players—like Giambi—who missed playoff games and likes to sit.”
No, I didn’t miss his point, I disagree with it. Gritty is good. Gritty ALWAYS to the point of refusing to sit even when you’re obviously underperforming due to injury (as Jeter has been for a couple weeks) is counterproductive.
Also…some people are acting like I’m advocating sitting Jeter for a week. This is one game, people. I’m talking about him sitting for ONE GAME. Now that we ACTUALLY HAVE an above replacement level utility guy, it’s something that the team can afford.
“I guess I didn’t read that in the LoHud Yankees Blog Handbook.”
Does this Handbook also say that Sox fans can’t contribute to this blog. Especially when at least 30% of the material on here is about the Sox. Isn’t it partially valuable to have someone who actually knows something about the team, and doesn’t just spurt out – ‘Sux hitting sucks, pitching is mediocre, and their bullpen is falling apart. By next week the SUX WILL BE IN SECOND PLACE! Chokers there whole lifes, they don’t win, never win, and never will win.!>4#’
whozat is exactly right…the Yankees are better off in the long run if guys like A Rod, Matsui, Jeter, and Abreu get a day off once in a while; now that we have the flexibility and the options we should take advantage of it.
If Torre tells Jeter to sit, he should sit and not protest. I admire his willingness and desire to play every day, but he has to put his own interests behind the team’s. I don’t think he would make a big deal out of it, but many of you are suggesting it is impossible to make Jeter sit. He’s the captain, but he still should do what Joe tells him without complaint.
“Moose has posted ERA+ of 101, 125, 92 the past 3 years, so he is slightly worse than Wakefield at this point, but I would say Moose is a better bet to rebound down the stretch, Wakefield started off great but has been awful since, Moose has been the opposite, plus he was hurt this year.”
I’m not sure how these kinds of comparisons are made. Comparing Wakefield to Moose is like comparing rat droppings to a t-bone for dinner. Wakefield is a career mediocre pitcher at best whereas the Moose has near hall of fame accomplishments and stats. Look em up if you don’t believe me.
The Red Sox and any other team would take Moose over that deadbeat even now. Moose has more upside because he has demonstrated excellence for a prolonged period of time.
He is having a decent and productive year, albeit not vintage Moose, right now. Don’t get lost in that inning nonsense. As long as a number 5 he gives you a chance to win most of the time, he is a keeper, something Moose has done effectively all year.
In the past eleven games, Wakefield has given up 4 or more runs 7 times!!!! The Moose has given up one game of four or more runs in that same span. If you expand it to the entire season, Wakefield has given up 4 or more runs 11 times verses Moose 5 times. There is simply no comparison. Moose gives the yanks far more opportunities to win that the buy from beantown.
Don’t let stats like ERA and Avg blind you. The Yanks are very happy with what Moose has done in the role he currently serves, and so am I.
BJ
Ian Kennedy just struck out the side in 1st inning.
YanksSox
August 8th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
“I guess I didn’t read that in the LoHud Yankees Blog Handbook.�
Does this Handbook also say that Sox fans can’t contribute to this blog. Especially when at least 30% of the material on here is about the Sox. Isn’t it partially valuable to have someone who actually knows something about the team, and doesn’t just spurt out – ‘Sux hitting sucks, pitching is mediocre, and their bullpen is falling apart. By next week the SUX WILL BE IN SECOND PLACE! Chokers there whole lifes, they don’t win, never win, and never will win.!>4#’
you are too funny, dude ! Is it exactly 30% of the material on here is about the Sox ? Where did you get that fact from ? Can you document it ? If you can’t, then you should not be allowed on this “forum” Ok ? This blog is for people that only state pure facts and not opinions. That would qualify as just “spurting out” and what is !>4#’ ?….I am not quite sure that is allowed here either ? You really need to become partialy valuable and show that you actually know something about the team…
BJ, you are cherry picking statistics. ERA+ says Wakefield and Moose are about even this year in terms of effectiveness. My point is Moose is trending upward and Wakefield is trending downward.
“whozat is exactly right…the Yankees are better off in the long run if guys like A Rod, Matsui, Jeter, and Abreu get a day off once in a while; now that we have the flexibility and the options we should take advantage of it.”
Bob, I continue to hear this claptrap ad nauseum. What evidence does anyone have to prove this intuitive statement to be true. Just because something makes sense to say, doesn’t mean it really is true.
There simply is no evidence that extended rest prevents injuries. We have seen players and managers injured simply watching games from the sidelines.
If Jeter truly has an injury that limits him from playing, you will know about it. Barring that, I don’t really ever want to see him or any of our other superstars on the bench.
BJ
One of Kennedy’s strikeout victims was the newest Red Sox, Bobby Kielty.
Arod is sitting tonight, perhaps his knee is swollen still?
“BJ, you are cherry picking statistics. ERA+ says Wakefield and Moose are about even this year in terms of effectiveness. My point is Moose is trending upward and Wakefield is trending downward.”
I’m not cherry picking stats. I’m simply asking the question ‘which pitcher gives us more opportunity to win games’ The answer is clearly Moose.
Think about it this way. If Moose gave up a 100 runs in one inning, his ERA would skyrocket and never recover were he to pitch perfect games the rest of the season. The ERA Nazis would point to a huge ERA claiming a failed season. A hyperbole to make the point.
Moose has had exactly 5 truly bad outings. Wakefield has had 11 irrespective of the ERA and projections. Moose gives any team far more opportunity to win. I guarantee you there isn’t a GM around that would take the guy from Beantown over the Moose right now.
BJ
“YanksSox
August 8th, 2007 at 5:18 pm
I don’t understand how people like KAJ can write on this forum, but Sox fans, even if they are talking about the Yanks are seen as trolls. His posts have no facts behind them and they are just ridiculous.”
“Even if they’re talking about the Yanks”?
You’re not talking about the Yankees son, you’re here fellating your boy Wakefield!
KAJ > you.
“There simply is no evidence that extended rest prevents injuries. We have seen players and managers injured simply watching games from the sidelines.”
We’re not talking about preventing injuries. We’re talking about healing existing injuries. Also…just because sometimes people hurt themselves randomly doesn’t mean that resting sore muscles is a waste of time. Soreness your body telling you to rest. Doing so allows your body to regenerate, which decreases the probability of debilitating injury. It’s simple physiology.
“If Jeter truly has an injury that limits him from playing, you will know about it.”
That limits him from playing, yes. That limits his playing ability? He’ll NEVER let on about anything like that. Peter reported on this very blog several days ago that Jeter is nursing sore knees. And then he jammed his shoulder. Did you hear about Matsui’s sore knees until Joe sat him yesterday? Nope. The team had known for over a week, and had been planning to sit him to rest his knees. Why? To allow him time to heal. Because that’s the smart thing to do when you have a nagging injury…take a day every now and again so it doesn’t turn into something that DOES make you unable to play.
“The schedule is really overrated, IMO. You can only play the people in front of you each day”
Truer words haven’t been spoken.
I am in the minority around here who thinks we actually have a favorable schedule. We play 8 games against a sinking ship in detroit. 3 games against a recently 500 club in the sox. We get to play cleveland where turmoil seems to be the rule in the clubhouse, not to mention their record of late too. The flip side is we are not only playing our best baseball of the season, but we are playing better ball than anyone since the break.
I realize we have to be some of these ’stellar’ 500 teams before anyone will sign off on our accomplishments, but the writing is on the wall.
BJ
“We’re not talking about preventing injuries. We’re talking about healing existing injuries. Also…just because sometimes people hurt themselves randomly doesn’t mean that resting sore muscles is a waste of time. Soreness your body telling you to rest. Doing so allows your body to regenerate, which decreases the probability of debilitating injury. It’s simple physiology.”
Again, more claptrap that simply isn’t verifiable. I could easily argue the veracity of this “physiologic truth” you speak of, but this is perhaps the wrong forum for that.
Healing existing injuries would be a legitimate reason to rest. For example I could prove through the literature that resting a fracture tibia facilitates wound healing, physiologically of course. What kind of injuries are you talking about? Bruises, bunions, callus oh my. Tell me what we are treating here.
Torre resting Jeter or any of our other so called ‘injured’ players is nothing more than him being a nice guy rewarding a player for a job well done. The team physician will let him know if he needs a medical day off. Short of that, its all blind unsubstantiated speculation.
BJ
“To allow him time to heal. Because that’s the smart thing to do when you have a nagging injury…take a day every now and again so it doesn’t turn into something that DOES make you unable to play.”
What is the ‘nagging injury’ that wont heal?
BJ
Its all about the pitching matchups, IMO, not the teams.
Take Baltimore for example. They have two pitchers, Bedard and Guthrie, whom the Yankees have had a hard time with this season. It makes the Orioles dangerous in those games.
Take Boston as another example. The Yankees have hammered Wakefield and Dice-K this year. While Boston is better than Baltimore, from a Yankee perspective, they have an easier time with Wakefield and Dice-K than they do with Bedard and Guthrie. Better matchups for the Yankees.
These next 3 days are tough pitching matchups for the Yankees. Halliday-Carmona-Byrd, three very tough pitchers, who are pitching very well right now. If they can win 2 of those 3 games, that’s pretty damn good.
Its why the first two wins in Toronto were so important. Best way to face Halliday is in the “house money” game of a series. At least they have this series in hand.
“Torre resting Jeter or any of our other so called ‘injured’ players is nothing more than him being a nice guy rewarding a player for a job well done.”
You’re kidding me. What MLB player would consider NOT PLAYING a reward?
“What kind of injuries are you talking about? Bruises”
A bruise isn’t an injury? What about sore muscles? What about aching joints? None of these are injuries? Soreness is an indicator of DAMAGE. Swelling is an indicator of DAMAGE. I’m sorry that you consider “things you don’t understand” to be claptrap.
“What is the ‘nagging injury’ that wont heal?”
His knees are both sore, and he jammed his shoulder sliding into the plate last week.
Big Johnson –
I like the Yankees’ chances, too.
As far as Jeter is concerned — he is generally beat up. Until the end of the season he is not going to be able to get enough rest to “heal” everything. He is used to and does not mind playing through nagging aches and pains. The only real effect that I have seen is he’s not as fast getting down the 1st base line, but I could be wrong about that. “Banged up” is not the same as injured. In August, I’d guess pretty much every major leaguer is somewhat banged up.
Whozat — oops, my bad. I thought you were talking about sitting Jeter tonight.
Kennedy whiffs the side…..He’s the third member of the Yankees Holy Trinity of Pitching…….Kennedy is going to open many an eye when he arrives…..He’s the complete package when grading starting pitchers……
“Moose gives any team far more opportunity to win.”
Yet Wakefield has 13 wins and Moose has 7.
“I guarantee you there isn’t a GM around that would take the guy from Beantown over the Moose right now.”
I guarantee you that I don’t care what you can supposedly guarantee me.
“His knees are both sore, and he jammed his shoulder sliding into the plate last week.”
First off, I’m not attacking you whozat, just the statements so don’t take it too personally.
Secondly, I assure you I understand this kind of pathology quite well. Sores, Jams, bruises are generic terms for ‘I hurt’. You need to give me objective pathologic or diagnostics to support these so called ‘injuries’ requiring extended days off.
You claim he ‘jammed his shoulder’. Are you suggesting he has a rotator cuff injury, bk the story you are giving me is inconsistent with it. Perhaps he has glenohumoral arthritis. Again the clinical picture doesn’t fit.
Players never ever want to sit, aside from the Pavanos of the world perhaps. A coach will sometimes force his players to enjoy a well earned day off. I wish I got em more often too.
The team has doctors that can identify objective pathology by exam or diagnostics. We have heard about neither. I’m not suggesting there isn’t, just that your evidence of ‘nagging injury’ is unsubstantiate and hasn’t progressed to the point necessitated a medical leave of absence.
If Jeter sits, its because Joe is being a nice guy.
BJ
““Banged upâ€? is not the same as injured. In August, I’d guess pretty much every major leaguer is somewhat banged up.”
Thats precisely my point. Jeter can and will safely play ‘banged up’ and all as much as possible until the time a true injury is revealed to the public. Something that simply has not been done.
BJ
Yankssux fan said:
“I would still take him over 95% of 5th starters in the league.”
I hope you share this wisdom with Theo, and hopefully convince him of how terrific a pitcher ImNotAwakefield really is. The Yanks sure appreciate facing him.
BJ
BJ –
**If Jeter sits, its because Joe is being a nice guy.**
In Jeter’s case, Joe would be being an ogre.
BTW, anybody ever do research into what Lou Gherig played through in accomplishing his consecutive game streak?????
Is anyone else concerned about Arod’s knee and his absence in the lineup tonight? He was reportedly limping after last night’s game. A nagging sore knee is just the kind of thing that can make him shift his weight differently at the plate and alter his swing, and we know how precise his mechanics are…
“Catching Breaks” said today at 2:09 pm:
“…The Yankees catch a break with C.C. Sabathia scheduled to start for Cleveland today which means they will not face him
or Jake Westbrook (who pitched last night) this weekend in Cleveland. They will draw Felix Carmona, whoever the fifth starter is (I know it’s a guy they sent down Chris Lee to call up), and Paul Byrd in the final game.”
Actually, the Indians switched Westbrook and Byrd this weekend, according to ESPN’s schedule…not that it matters a whole lot.
The Orioles’ Bedard’s next start after 8/11 would ordinarily be Thursday 8/16, but since it’s a day off before the Orioles go up to Toronto, they might pitch Bedard Wednesday against the Yanks in the getaway game.
JGNYC –
Not yet.
I’m just curious here, but with George ailing, if he relinquishes control this winter or next year, and Hal et al take over, is it written in stone that they will spend like George did to get Santanna or will they take a more conservative approach and try to reduce payroll significantly? How do we know the next generation of ownership will continue to spend like George did?
“the Indians switched Westbrook and Byrd this weekend, according to ESPN’s schedule”
That’s actually good news in my eyes, I’d much rather face Westbrook than Byrd.
Speaking of this weekend series, does anyone know which game is the Indians’ scheduled Larry Doby Day? Doby was from my neighborhood in Jersey, he’s someone I have monumental respect for so I do not want to miss that tribute.
“How do we know the next generation of ownership will continue to spend like George did?”
This is what keeps me up at night. Even with all of George’s faults, he is by far and away the best owner one could hope for. All he wants to do is win at any cost.
I’m not sure the succession plans include this mantra heaven forbid.
BJ
I don’t remember who mentioned it but Matsui has had knee issues since he was in Japan and it has been documented quite a few times. He is constantly icing his knees as they swell up on him. He has played through it through his consecutive games played run. Now that he not longer is involved in that quest, Torre is going to rest him when possible so Matsui can be as pain free as possible and stay in the lineup as often as possible.
BBB, one of the Yankee pitchers STILL will be facing Cleveland’s Byrd…unless you meant YOU would be (heh)…
Anyway, just for the fun of it, I charted up a tentative (repeat, TENTATIVE) list of which opposing pitchers the Yankees will be facing for the rest of the month, given we pretty much know what’s happening up to 8/14.
Here goes:
8.16 Mussina vs. Verlander @ YS
8.17 Pettitte vs Robertson
8.18 Clemens vs. Durbin
8.19 Wang vs. Bonderman
8.20 Hughes vs Colon? @ LAA
8.21 Mussina vs. Escobar
8.22 Pettitte vs. Lackey
8.23 off day
8.24 Clemens vs. Durbin @ Detroit
8.25 Wang vs. Bonderman
8.26 Hughes vs. Tata
8.27 Mussina vs. Verlander
8.28 Pettitte vs. Schilling @ YS
8.29 Clemens vs. Wakefield
8.30 Wang vs. Lester
8.31 Hughes against TB? @ YS
This is assuming no other teams juggle their rotations because of off/travel days or just because they’re up against the Yankees…
TEST