Karstens set up for Tuesday
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Aug 13, 2007 
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Jeff Karstens is the scheduled starter for Tuesday, not Ian Kennedy. Joe Torre has been saying that for a few days now.
Has Karstens been used today, there was a chance Kennedy would get the call. But he wasn’t.
This is why Karstens is on the roster, to take spot starts and pitch in long relief. Bringing Kennedy to the majors would require a move on the 40-man and 25-man rosters. If Karstens was optioned, he would have spend 10 days in the minors. Who’s the long reliever then?
Also, stop fretting over Andy Phillips. He’s the first baseman unless he goes into a total nosedive with the bat. Did you see the critical play in the seventh inning when he and Pettitte picked off Jhonny Peralta? Do you think Jason Giambi makes that play?
Giambi has not played first base in a big-league game since May 3. They’re not going to suddenly toss him out there. A big part of their winning has been playing excellent defense and Phillips has been a major part of that.
Giambi and Johnny Damon are going to split time as the DH. They may not like it, but Torre has made it clear he’s not going to mess with what is working. The Yankees have won 28 of their last 38 games with Phillips playing pretty much every day.
Don’t look at first base in a traditional sense. Yes, it’s a power position. But the Yankees get far, far more from their catcher, shortstop and second baseman than most teams. Phillips is a good fit with this team for how it’s playing right now.
Enjoy what is happening right now, no changes are needed.
I like this move by Torre. Last year’s team was rolling, too, and the addition of Sheffield right before the playoffs took Melky out of the lineup, and changed the team. I’m not saying Joe Torre didn’t do the right thing at the time, but perhaps he learned from last year not to mess with a good thing.
Also, having Damon or Giambi coming off the bench is kind of cool. Who did we have pinch hitting earlier in the season, Miguel Cairo?
Karstens hasn’t shown anything real positive since returning from the DL, so call up Kennedy and if Kennedy struggles you have Karstens who can come in for 3 innings or so.
You’re definitely right about Phillips; unless he can’t hit at all, he should be in there. HOWEVER, in September I would like to see them play Duncan and Giambi at first a little just in case they need it for the playoffs.
Also, I agree about Karstens/Kennedy. In addition, it would be pointless to start Kennedy’s option/free agent clock for one start
Let’s hope Kennedy gets the call-up or that Karstens has a strong start. We’re driving up for the game Tuesday from Delaware, my summer vacation consists of one day and I can’t think of a better place to spend it.
Peter, I think you’re looking at the first base thing wrong. I mean, yes, you’re right that the Yankees get above average production from other positions, but that doesn’t mean that justifies short changing themselves at first base. I don’t advocate moving Phillips from first, but simply because they shouldn’t mess with what is working well, as well as because he is leaps and bounds better defensively than any alternative.
Look at the beginning of the season though – when Mientkiewicz was at first and was bringing the team down offensively, everyone was clamoring for more production out of the first base slot. Now that things are going well, people are saying that it isn’t “necessary”. Well, obviously Phillips is doing better than Mientkiewicz was, but just because we get above average production from other positions, doesn’t mean we can settle for less at another. If you want the best team overall, you can’t settle for less simply because they get more from elsewhere.
So don’t mess with the Phillips situation, but only because things are going well. If there is a suitable alternative on the free agent market next year (although I don’t know who that would be – Dunn comes to mind, but he is as much a butcher with the glove as Giambi) then the Yankees should jump on it. Improvement is improvement, regardless of where the team stands in other places.
Speaking of Minky, what do we do when he returns? I’d hate to see Duncan go down.
Minky will not be up before the rosters go to 40 so do not worry DUncan is going no where.
they still need to bring up another relief pitcher…
they need 1 more reliable arm……………
also when they enlarge the rosters and play molina they can pitch hit for him becuase they will add a catcher for D purposes….
Dare I say the early season struggles are making this season more fun?
Ran, the season will be more fun as long as we win the east or get in. If the early season struggles wind up to be what costs us a shot at #27, i’ll be pissed.
Ryan*
once again, i hear the glee in you that karstens is pitching. bottom line HE SUCKS and will get rocked…why are you so happy that ian kennedy isnt pitching?
Pete – First base question for you. Obviously Joe Torre has quelled any potential dysfunction by getting stars like Giambi and Damon to accept reduced roles for the betterment of the team – but what happens next year? Both are still signed.
Melky has to be the everyday CF in 2008. He is now – and brings more to the table defensively than Damon. Matsui returns in left. I assume Abreu’s option will be picked up (need to keep the seat warm until Tabata’s ready). Even if Abreu walks – you can’t play Damon in RF with his arm.
Giambi’s your DH. Where does that leave Damon. My gut says the Yanks try to trade him for a 1B or make him the everyday 1B. It would save wear and tear on his legs + give the Yankees a productive bat at 1B.
I’d like to see him traded – don’t think JD has 2 yrs left… trade him for a 1B – there’s not much out there?
Your thoughts?
Peter Gammons just said, at this moment, we’re the best team in baseball.
It was a little hard to hear, cuz of all the {{ coughing }} going on in Boston
what an F’n joke if that’s true Pete, Karstens is an automatic get the BP ready for a long night guy right now. And seriously we’re worried who replaces Jeff in a LRP role ?
How Ramirez, Britton, Ohlendorf alot of better options than Karstens, this seems to me Joe Torre buttin’ in again.
As has been mentioned elsewhere, it’s not enuf to point out that the Yankees get above-average production from several other positions. The idea here is to maximize runs scored, and over time, Andy Phillips will hurt, not help, the team in this regard. Singling out one play, and assuming that Giambi wouldn’t make it, is no substitute for a more sober examination of how Phillips will contribute to the team versus other options. (And one need not ignore defense in making those calculations.)
Oh. And starting Karstens is unimaginative in the extreme, and an unfortunate glimmer of the kind of stale thinking that hurt the team in the past. I guess Gammons — who predicted we’d see Kennedy next week — got his info wrong.
Too bad.
i’m shocked and relieved that torre didn’t rock the boat this time around. i guess this organization is learning from past mistakes.
as for next year, who cares? if they don’t win the world series, torre’s not coming back. if they do win the world, series, everybody’s happy. you deal with next year next year. i’d be shocked if both damon and giambi were back in pinstripes next year.
I don’t like this Karstens move. It’s a give up, automatic burn up the bullpen for the rest of the week.
Karstens starting does NOTHING for us. All it does, is take away our only long man for 3-4 days after the start. We’re actually shortening our bullpen for the week by starting him.
The better idea is to bring up a starter and send Karstens down and then after the spot starter pitches, bring up Edwar or Britton until Karstens is eligible to come back up. By starting him on Tuesday night, we’re essentially losing him tomorrow, wed, thurs and friday. Am I wrong?
On top of that roster management issues, he’s been an ineffective starting pitcher. We can’t give games up. The Orioles will eat the slop he’s throwing up there alive.
So what the front office is basically saying is we’re gonna throw out a starting pitcher who probably won’t win, or go 6 innings (and most likely won’t get out of the 5th) and then we’re gonna use up our pen Tuesday night to finish the game that this guy is starting and then have no long man in the pen and a dead bullpen spot until Saturday?
Bringing up Kennedy (and sending down Karstens) is the RIGHT move. After the game, send Kennedy back down and call up a fresh arm for the pen until Karstens can come back up. If we send Karstens down tomorrow night, he’ll be back by next week.
This is a weak move by a team that has been making killer instinct kind of moves of late.
I’m not a fan of it.
As for Phillips at first, I’m fine with him. The kid can hit a fastball and he can play the heck out of 1b. Put Giambi out there one night and he blows a defensive play and everyone’s head will explode. I believe they are right sticking with Andy and his glove right now and believe me, I was against even calling up Phillips again. He’s helping us win though and he is the best option at 1b right now.
somewhere Kevin Millar & Miguel Tejada are licking their chops about seeing that fastball and his curve ball which has regressed.
At least we’ll get Jim Brower back, so that gives us another long man, along with Villone. They’ll be our backup for Karstens. I like Phillips at first. The only problem I have is that he swings at the first pitch he sees almost all the time. Phillips should make that adjustment and take pitches sometimes. Other than that, I’m cool with him at first. Minky is useless at the moment. All he can do is play first, but can’t hit. Can you say DFA?!
Uhh, I realize everyone wants Giambi to play first, but there’s a reason he was basically assigned to the DH role before the season began. He’s terrible out there, and he risks injury on almost every play. Calm down with hating on AP. He’s not great, but he’s a good fielder and he has become part of the team. Giambi understands the situation. He’ll get his time. Getting some of the regulars a day off here and there is going to do wonders for this teams final stride toward the playoffs.
As for Karstens, if Joe doesn’t trust him, why is he on the team? I’m sure nobody REALLY wants him to pitch, but what does it do for his confidence if you bring up Kennedy to start? If he’s not going to start, get him off the roster. Many people agree this is the correct move (myself included), but he’s on the team so he starts. It’s that simple.
Peter,
This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever read: “Don’t look at first base in a traditional sense. Yes, it’s a power position. But the Yankees get far, far more from their catcher, shortstop and second baseman than most teams.”
Starting Karstens is essentially giving the game away. If we miss the playoffs or lose the division by 1 game, we can look back on that game. Karstens is a terrible pitcher who has no business being in the major leagues. We’ll be LUCKY if he goes 5 IP on Tuesday allowing no more then 5 runs. And thats being extremely generous. He doesnt strike people out, his stuff is very average and he has extreme flyball tendencies. None of this is good.
Kennedy should be called up. Every game is important and we have to give ourselves our best chance of winning EVERY game. Do the Yankees seriously feel confident in Karstens? I dont see how they can.
I also feel they do not want to start Kennedy’s clock yet just for 1 start. It really doesn’t make much sense. They need to see what Karstens has before the playoffs get too much closer as well so it’s better to find out now. Karstens did very well last year for this club, in case everyone’s forgotten, and was scheduled to be a starter before he got hurt this year. How quickly some forget. I know it’s not the best time for him to be finding himself again but he had decent stuff before so I guess they want to give the guy a shot just to make sure. Britton was hurt as well wasn’t he ??? They can always bring up the other guys afterwards if Karstens doesn’t do well this time out. No need to disrupt the entire roster and create more payroll than necessary if he does OK until the September roster expansion happens. The world will not come to an end.
Adam–It’s not the dumbest thing you’ve ever heard. The dumbest thing you’ve ever heard or read is “Bonds is your new HR king.” Seriously, Pete’s right. We get above average production from SS, 2nd, C, and 3rd. Also, who are u going to plug in there?! Giambi, Damon, Betemit, or Duncan??!! Neither have a better glove than Phillips.
kasey – I care about next year… whatever the Yankees get this year is a bonus – be it a WS or not. Cashman retooled this team with youth and vigor on the fly… that trend needs to continue. Yes Posada and Rivera will come back – but it’s a problem that needs to be addressed (damon/giambi)… your comment was typical nearsighted Yankee fandom. I’m sure you’d mortgage 5 years of having a title shot for one year of just making the playoffs.
The Yanks my friend are built for the future! For a change!
I know this is silly but.. what if the Yankees did this on Tuesday:
Karstens for 2 IP
Chamberlain for 2 IP
Villone 1 IP
Farnsworth 1 IP
Brower 1 IP
Vizcaino 1 IP
Rivera 1 IP
I don’t think it “burns” the bullpen because no one goes more than an inning except the useless Karstens, and Joba has been going for 2 IP per appearance anyway. Outside the box thinking.. it’d probably suck anyway but you never know.
In regard to Phillips, I agree he has to maintain some semblance of hitting as well but I understand what Peter means that Phillips isn’t hitting all that bad to warrant him being put on the bench just yet and they don’t want to disrupt the rhythm the team has right now. If he dropped dead all together, that would be a different story but he’s been getting RBI’s and some hits, not too bad.
Betemit is still unproven and raw at first, he still has to learn the foot work at the bag, the throws and become better at it. Giambi has no range/arm whatsoever and can’t play the field for fear of being injured in any event. Giambi is being saved so he can play 1st in the world series is my guess. They’ll give him a day at 1st here or there so he can hold his own but that’s about it. At least he can scoop well. After that it’s all downhill.
Steve Phillips just dared to say on baseball tonight that the Yankees wont make the playoffs.
Is he insane? Jesus christ. You have to be pretty freakin retarded to say something that stupid. He is giving the edge to SEATTLE. Our pitching is better than theirs, arguably. And our offense is leaps and bounds better.
He needs a new job.
Boo. Karstens stinks.
As for the 40 man roster canard, are you kidding?
Brower blows chunks. Cut his awfulness. Ramirez should be up waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of him.
Karstens has crappy fastball control right now, and without it, he can’t get much out of his curve and change. They should send him down to get his fastball figured out, DFA Brower or Reese or Basak and call up Kennedy. We need to win these games, and Karstens hasn’t been able to keep us in the two games he’s pitched lately.
“Steve Phillips just dared to say on baseball tonight that the Yankees wont make the playoffs.
“Is he insane”
No, he’s invested.
“I’m sure you’d mortgage 5 years of having a title shot for one year of just making the playoffs.”
um, my comment was in reference to somebody worrying about how damon and giambi were going to handle torre’s platoon decision next year. you really think damon and giambi are going to effect the next 5 years of the yankee organization?
give reading the actual posts a shot before you reply, maybe. i was anti-bringing hughes up because i worried it was the wrong move, long-run. ditto joba. THAT’S the yankee future, not jason giambi or johnny damon. wake up, dude.
I don’t pay much attention to what Steve Phillips says. LOL, Peter Gammons facial expression was priceless when he had talk about how the Yankees are doing on Baseball Tonight
Pete, speaking of pitchers moving around, any news on Igawa yet?
Big Papi is gonna have to come outta the lineup.
in the last 5 games, he’s 3 for 21 for a .142 average.
knon knon who there ? new york yankees, that who
Big Papi is struggling really bad. He has bad shoulder and a torn meniscus like Barry Bonds does.
Hey Pete!
I have a question. I obviously don’t get to see the players or interact with them so I was wondering what makes Andy Phillips so like-able. People who have day to day experience with him seem to want to bend over backwards to overlook his failings.
can’t agree more.
Love how Pete has now jumped on the Andy Phillips bandwagon – two months late. You know, after they had no choice but to play Cairo at 1B.
As for 1B, Duncan and Giambi could both play there (Duncan even moreso), and nothing says Phillips couldn’t be a late inning defensive replacement when they’re protecting a lead.
And Phillips better start to hit. Otherwise, Torre will be clamoring for the return of Doug Mancaveitch. And Pete will be cheering him on.
the only reason giambi should be anywhere near first base is because of a walk or hit; if i see giambi with a glove during a game i’ll vomit violently.
Pete I disagree.If Phillips was playing defensively for Giambi or Damon he would be in there anyway by that point.If Giambi hits like this its going to be near impossible to DH Damon at all.My answer.Damon at 1b for 6-7 then Phillips.
Andy Phillips is playing well defensively, lets not start messing with things – I think torre learned the lesson last year with the sheff experience
no way damon or giambi should be out there – ever
good pt pete
Take a deep breath and let Karstens do what he can. The fact that he is starting this game won’t make or break our chances.
In the meantime, keep a happy thought in your heads: The Sox are now finding ways to lose. Gagne, the supposed “lock,” has allowed seven runs in four innings over five games. (Maybe Timlin becomes the set up man and Gagne gets the Farnsworth treatment). Papi is slumping without his performance enhancers, Manny is having an off year considering his usual insane numbers and difference maker JD Drew is not handling the pressure.
Six games left with Boston and three with Seattle. Gentlemen, your fate is in your hands.
Sit Andy Phillips because averaging 7 runs a game isn’t enough? Defense at 1B is imperative, in my opinion. Jeter’s throws especially are not always accurate. When most of your pitchers are pitching to contact, you have to play good defense. Phillips hits well enough, and the games I’ve been fortunate enough to watch lately where he hasn’t been hitting, he seems at the very least not to be clueless at the plate. Especiallly a couple of games ago, he hit the ball hard and just missed a couple of hits because of good defensive plays.
The Yankees will be fine with Phillips at first.
Shelly Duncan has played over 300 games at 1B in his career. Nothing says you can’t put him there for 6 innings, then swap in Phillips.
Peter “Mr. Red Sox” Gammons was up most of the night drinking gin and bawling his eyes out.
He will however be perched in his box seat at the Green Sardine Can tonight to root on “his” Socks.
Karstens role might be spot start and long relief but if he can’t pitch effectively games get out of hand and the Bull Pen is burned up —
Karstens has not been effective and nothing is learned about kennedy by throwing Karstens — if he is that valuable our of the pen (not yet proven) then get rid of Vallone
On Andy Phillips – you got to love the kid but he is not the Yankess answer at 1B — to say that the Yankes get more our of C, SS, 2B is only to say they compensate for a below replacement level 1B –
Giambi’s foot is a big risk — he can’t play 1B much anyway
and he may not be able to give 3 games in the World Series in which case the Yankees will lose the 9 man matchup tha thurt them so badly against the Diamondbacks and the Marlins
There may not be a worhthile trade but that means we are stuck with a hole to fill and that above average performance becomes critical, not just nice to have
You may have to compensate but it is ot desired and if yo can remove theneed you should do it – Give Duncan 10 games
and see what we get
St Joe is stil a poor user of the Bull Pen he had a great chance to use Joba and avoid Viz on back to back days
Joba Chamberlain is under strict use guidelines, at least for now. So Joba was not available yesterday.
Lessons that Joe Torre has learned: Joe Torre:
A glove is more important at first base than a bat. He is actually playing Phillips and DHing Damon and Giambi.
Centerfield needs a person with a glove and an arm. Melky has both and is playing every day.
Bullpen pitchers should not play every day. Joba is on a play/rest schedule that should be for all bullpen pitchers.
There should be more than two catchers on a team. Let’s hope Joe addresses this issue next.
What’s up with all of this negative posting?
If Karstens was really so very, very bad, do you think they would pitch him? The guy pitched with a broken leg, if you remember correctly. He’s earned the right.
A more interesting idea, if they are giving up on this game, is to pitch Igawa as an audition for San Diego, and then trade him after the game if they still can (don’t they have until 12 midnight PST). Don’t mess with the 40 man, or with a young pitcher’s development. Look at Clippard.
Phillips? The guy was hitting around .300, plays excellent defense, and is in a bit of a mini-slump. Cut him a break as well.
My only explanation for the negative posting is the influence of Red Sox trolls.
Therefore, to the tune of Jingle Bells:
Red Sox trolls, Red Sox trolls…
Heading for the door,
Suicide watch on the Mass Ave bridge
Cause the lead is down to four!
man, buster olney on mike and mike acted like an idiot. he said “the yankees are playing like they are the best team”… now that may seem fine but look at the rhetoric; “playing LIKE they are the best team”, not only that but the way he said it, as if he had been prodded on to concede something he doesn’t want to believe. what a douche bag.
then, with much authority as if stating a fact, buster declares that the red sox will make the post season. that man has a face like a godamn brick to say that with a strait face. how can someone be so adamant (he was borderline vehement, with an almost reassuring brushing off tone) when the red sox have an anemic, shrinking 4 game cushion? ohhhhh wait, it was buster olney. never mind.
Funny how many here take what Phillips did on the pickoff play for granted yesterday. Would Pettitte have tried that move with Duncan, Giambi or Betemit ? Not likely. You may sacrifice some power or even some hitting using Phillips over Duncan or Betemit, but in a close game like yesterday’s, when defense weighs in a little heavier at a critical time, I’d rather have the more solid defender on the field.
Peter was right to say that his team mates would help to pick up the slack of his bat somewhat. No one is saying that if he wasn’t hitting at all he should be in the lineup but that is not the case here. He has been getting his RBI’s and some hits. Everyone has some slow periods when they play. He’s not going to be a star player and we are talking about now not next year. That will take care of itself in due time.
Pete,
You are right on the money with Phillips. He has been the unsung hero the last two months. He helped them win two or three games early with his bat and now he just does his job everyday at first.
I like Phillips just as much as the next guy. However he has like a .330 OBP. THAT IS NOT WHAT YOU WANT IN THE PLAYOFFS. While facing guys like Lackey,Verlander,Beckett, you NEED guys who raise the pitchcount for the opposing pitcher. Phillip’s defense on the other hand has been EXCELLENT. And NO, GIAMBI IS NOT THE ANSWER AT 1B.
THAT ANSWER COULD BE JOHNNY DAMON. Toree and co. must feel he’s not ready at 1B yet. Hopefully he’ll be ready in a month or so.
This is what i want come playoff time:
When Wang or Pettite pitch
1B Phillips
DH Damon
When anyone else:
1B Damon
DH Giambi
And bring in Phillips as defensive sub.
As for Karstens, It would have been aa treat to see Kennedy pitch. However they need to pindout if Karstens is ready/recovered. A start may be the best way to find that out. If he does good, he keeps his longman job for now, if he does bad, he gets sent down, and White gets called up as long-man. Or could they use Brower as long-man? Toree did say he can go multiple innings.
As for the bullpen, expect Henn and Edwar to be called up any day now. With Farnsworthless and Brower/Kasrstens headed out the door.
I would have no problem with Damon at 1B NEXT year, if he works over the off-season at the position. Who wants a replay of the “Sheffield experiment” at 1B during the playoffs? In my mind, Phillips is exactly what you want during the playoffs — solid defense. Of course, by then you also have Mientkiewicz perhaps in the equation.
Just because Shelley Duncan has played over 300 minor league games at first base, doesn’t mean he can play the position well at the ML level. He can’t. In fact, he’s awful at the position.
The Andy Phillips talk is just dumb. The guy has played terrific since they inserted him in the lineup. No reason to sit him down at this time.
For the folks forever wanting to tinker with the lineup, leave it alone. They have been the best team in baseball since Late-June. Just let things play out.
If Phillips slumps badly, they have other options.
Like Murph said, enjoy the ride right now and don’t worry about the small stuff.
Alot of people here are overlooking that we have a guy named Wilson Betemit who has shown more power than Andy Phillips ever dreamed of sitting on the bench.
Andy Phillips: hits more singles
Betemit: Gets on base at a better rate, hits for better power
Betemit is a 3b/ss, he should handle 1B fine, and he is 2 inches taller than APE and has longer arms, how many times have we seen Ape pulled off the bag lately?
Andy Phillips is a fine young man, and I wish he would show some iota of hitting ability, but he isn’t. His stats have been consistently declining since his hot start, and he seems incapable of hitting for power or regularly at all.
Also you talk about his ability to pick off Peralta, but how about his botched pick off of Sizemore?
Pete,
Your right about not worrying about Giambi taking over for Phillips. The thing that scares the bejesus out of me is the return of Minky.
I don’t see how anyone can second guess anything Torre has done the past two months. Phillips has been a godsend at 1b with his defense and bat.
38disasters,
You can’t be serious. Buster Olney is one of the top baseball writers in the country.
Olney is an idiot because he said the Red Sox will be in the post-season?
Does it make me an idiot that I think they will make the playoffs too?
Olney is an outstanding reporter/writer and his blog is a must-read everyday because he’s as good as it gets.
Perhaps you should really take a look at his background and realize that he authored a pro-Yankees book about their most recent dynasty and it was outstanding.
If anything, Olney is more pro-Yankees than anything else.
Everyone who thinks that ESPN is an anti-Yankees network doesn’t have a clue. They get more coverage than any other team in MLB. It’s not even close.
“This is why Karstens is on the roster, to take spot starts and pitch in long relief. Bringing Kennedy to the majors would require a move on the 40-man and 25-man rosters. If Karstens was optioned, he would have spend 10 days in the minors. Who’s the long reliever then?”
Peter, so because Karstens is on the Roster, then he is the better choice ? C’mon man, wake up ! The man sports a 10 plus ERA,,,he has shown NOTHING and is coming off the DL…Long man ? Try Ron Villone ? Am I imagining things, or was he the long man in the past ? Who is pitching better rignt now, Ron Villone or Jeff Karstens ? And what about doing with Kennedy, what they are doing with Joba ? Kennedy gets this start, then becomes the long reliever ? OR Kennedy gets this start and WHEN Karstens comes back ( yuck ) let him be the long reliever. I don’t understand how many poor outings a player needs, before the Yankees deem him unreliable. Oh yeah, I forgot, cases in point Igawa and Farnsy….you need LOTS of bad outings…will I can virtually assure you that Karstens will get hammered and not make it out of the 4th inning….THEN who will be the long reliever ? WHO do they bring in then ?
oh, and one other simple point…What happened to putting together a lineup that gives us the very best option to WIN THE FRIGGIN’ GAME ? Are we NOT in a playoff race ?
Re Karstens, I don’t expect much tomorrow, but the way the offense has been scoring it won’t take much. Say 5 runs in 5 innings, I think the Yankees can still pull a W out of that one. After Tuesday though, Karstens will be spent, I wouldn’t mind calling up Ian or Ohlendorf or even Edwar at that point. I’m sure that is what will happen.
I love the statheads coming out of the woodwork, quoting what “won’t work” in the playoffs.
I don’t know, maybe you guys watched different Yankee playoff teams than I did that last 3 years but, an awful lot of guys with great OPS don’t hit in the playoffs (see Arod, Sheffield, Giambi, etc.)
The idea is GETTING to the playofs and, if you don’t think defense matters at first base, you haven’t watched this team this season, or in the last 3 post-seasons.
In each of the last 3 post-seasons, plays happened at first that influenced outcomes of games.
Give me a guy who makes all the plays and hits well enough to contribute. Its not like the Yankees need more offense.
Like Vinny said, NO WAY Pettitte tries that play yesterday with Giambi or Damon at first. It turned out to be a huge play in the game. Won’t show up on the stat sheet so some statheads won’t be able to understand it but, it probably saved them the game.
Its hard to rip on Torre since this team has come back from the dead. Whether some of you like it or not, if this team catches Boston or makes the WC, the chances of him not being re-signed are practically nil, IMO.
Heck, barring a collapse right now, he’s probably set for next year.
What this team is doing right now is remarkable. They remake the bench and bullpen on the fly, half the lineup, who couldn’t hit their way out of a paper bag 2 months ago, are all hitting over .400, and you have a solid mix of young and old.
The manager has to get credit for making this mix work. I don’t see how he can’t, unless folks have such hatred for the man, their emotions can’t allow them to think objectively.
Ripping him on Andy Phillips or giving Karstans a start, when its clear the organization is not willing to waive someone off the 40 man roster to activate Kennedy for one start, makes no sense to me.
Its like folks are reaching to find something to whine about.
Right now, things couldn’t be better for the Yankees. Enjoy it. Its what we wished for from this team all season.
“The Andy Phillips talk is just dumb. The guy has played terrific since they inserted him in the lineup. No reason to sit him down at this time.”
SJ, you know your sh*t, but i must respectfully disagree here.
Phillips is hitting .282/.323/.376.
he doesn’t hit for average. he doesn’t get on base. he doesn’t hit for power. i don’t see how there is anything “terrific” about that at all.
Andy Phillips now has a career OPS of .671. Miguel Cairo has a career OPS of .674. Tony Womack has a career OPS of .673. think about that. the starting 1Bman for the NY Yankees has the career offensive production of a slap-hitting utility man.
also, it’s crazy to cite that pick-off play as an example for Phillips to start everyday. why? b/c that is going to happen ONCE a season. what about when he blew the other pick off play on Sizemore? they had him picked off and he double-clutched then threw a lollipop to second. anyone can look good if we remember the good plays and ignore the bad plays.
i am not saying he isn’t good defensively. he *is* a good defensive player. he really is. but how do we know Betemit can’t be *almost* as good defensively while being *much* better offensively?
i guess we’ll have to wait until next season to find out, b/c Phillips won’t be on the team next year.
I heard the Buster Olney interview, you are reading into the way he said he guessed the Yankees were the best team. As Bill Parcells said, you are what your record says you are. The Yankees are not the best team record wise, so they are not the best team yet. Boston still is until we pass them. As for who is playing the best right now, it is the Yankees. However, Boston is still playing very well and would have a bigger lead if Gagne hadn’t been blowing up. I’m pretty sure both Boston and the Yankees will be in the playoffs this year.
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.....d=20070813
Nail in the coffin…if Kennedy pitches today, as scheduled, jut go ahead and write in an L for tuesday’s game and move on…..DANG !…stupid, stupid move !
Probables: I. Kennedy (1-0, 1.06), J. Koronka (1-3, 4.38)
Peter,
You are being called out on Nomaas, referring to this link when you said the Yankees should have traded A Rod in the off season.
http://yanksfansoxfan.typepad......tion_.html
Betemit can’t play first though hmmm. That’s my point. He’s still learning the position and there is no way he is an everyday option at first.
I see him take groundballs there each day and Donnie is working like crazy with him. But, he’s not an everyday guy at the position right now.
If you inverted Phillips stats with Cano’s, nobody would be saying anything. Cano hits like a first baseman and Phillips hits like a second baseman. Defensively, he’s the best the Yankees have to play first. That’s why needs to play, IMO.
I am not saying Phillips is the long term answer at first base. I know he isn’t.
But, right now, he is the right guy to be in there.
Betemit also doesn’t hit well from the right side. That makes its tough to play him against lefties.
I just don’t believe in messing with a winning lineup. They did it last year and it blew up in their faces. Seems to me, they are avoiding making the same mistake.
It seems like they have a little magic going with this rotation of guys. I’d just like to see it play out more and not see every position set in stone.
If Phillips completely falls off the map offensively, then they can re-examine it.
I think competition has certainly helped some guys turn their season’s around. I’d rather they keep doing what they are doing instead of tinkering around when its not warranted at this time.
Let’s see, a 3rd grader is running the Yankees,,,he can pick one of 2 pitchers :
I. Kennedy (1-0, 1.06), super talented AAA player
OR
J. Karstens (0-2, 10.13), Just coming off the DL, last 2 appearances, pitched a total of 6.1 innings, gave up 5 runs on 8 hits and walked 3..
Hmmm…do I flip a coin, daddy ?
“Nail in the coffin…if Kennedy pitches today, as scheduled, jut go ahead and write in an L for tuesday’s game and move on…..DANG !…stupid, stupid move !”
i love how everyone thinks Kennedy is going to come up and dominate in his major league debut.
look at Hughes’ debut.
is Kennedy better than Karstens? yes. much better.
but when we are talking about a single game, and a game where the pitcher is pitching in his first start ever, i’d say it’s 50-50 that Kennedy would do better than Karstens.
the chances of Kennedy coming in and getting bombed are probably equal to Karstens getting bombed.
Johan Santana had a 6.49 ERA in his rookie season. Roger Clemens was bombed in his major league debut. Hughes was hit hard in his debut.
i like Kennedy a lot as a prospect, but it’s silly to pretend that for one game he is any sort of guarantee to come in and shut down a major league offense.
SJ…right on…why can’t people be happy with the success this team is enjoying. Why mess with the lineup? Andy Phillips has earned his place on this team. Just because baseball dogma tells you first base is power and rbi position doesn’t mean it has to be so. Baseball dogma also tells you 2B isn’t power and rbi position, but that hasn’t stopped Cano from being that.
C’mon people…can’t we get over the ‘All-Star at every position’ mentality. Hasn’t really worked the last couple of years has it?
It doesn’t matter if Andy Phillips or Raggedy Andy plays 1st and it doesn’t matter if Jeff Karstens (gasp!) has to make a start (BTW, Karstens will be facing Daniel Cabrera that day…he of the 5.14 ERA and 1.58 WHIP, ughhh)…This team has the attitude that it will not be beaten by any team the rest of the year.
In fact, 23-8 since the All-Star break…going back even further to the week before the All-Star break the Yankees are 28-10…they’ve lost 10 games since the beginning of July…That is amazing!
You can’t complain about this team right now…you can’t! You should be excited to see this team take the field everyday and enjoy the performance.
Let’s Go Yankees!
“Betemit also doesn’t hit well from the right side. That makes its tough to play him against lefties.”
you are right. but Phillips, for some strange reason, can’t hit lefties to save his life either. a RH hitter than can’t lefties is strange, but look at Phillips’ career line against lefties:
.204/.245/.275
ouch. that’s beyond pathetic.
and another point i forgot, Phillips SHOULD play 1B when Wang is pitching and maybe Pettitte.
those guys get lots of ground balls and his glove is probably worth it.
i am merely arguing to get Betemit into the rotation when we have our flyball/strikeout pitchers on the mound. let’s see how he handles it.
Guys, you gotta think like a GM. Why make all these changes on the 25 and 40 man rosters when you are filling ONE start. This is not a wait and see situation, Clemens takes his next turn. So Kennedy throws 6 shutout, then you send him back down? They are not using him out of the bullpen and there is no starting spot open. Therefore, it makes no sense to make all those changes. Karstens has worked his way up, give him a chance at least. Obviously, I don’t love the guy but he did win points with me earlier this year when he tried to keep pitching with a broken leg when we needed innings.
They have rotated Betemit in at 1B. Also Duncan, if I’m not mistaken, in the last 7-10 days, I believe. Phillips has not started every game there. So I really don’t understand the complaints.
Also, if I’m not mistaken, when Mientkiewicz was here, people liked his defense, but were saying something along the lines of “if only he could hit about .280.” Well, now, here’s AP hitting around .280. There’s just no pleasing some people.
The Yankees are not going win every game. And they are certainly not going to win every game 10-0. They are playing great baseball. I agree with everyone who’s been saying, let’s enjoy it and stop nit-picking!
Oops, Betemit only in once in the last 8 games.
so 1B is the talk of this blog.. they are playing 700 ball but people are saying Betemit can play a better 1B because he is 2 inches taller!!!!!!!!!!!!!
what are you watching Phillips is not hitting but damn he can field.. you see him get the lead runner at 2nd.. the yanks haven’t done that for yrs…
give him some time…Tuesdays game who are they facing Koufax?????Relax, if Karstens stinks take him out and piece it together.. they still need 1 more reliable arm in the pen..
Giambi and Damon will play plenty and will be good soldiers… last yr. they have 2 weeks to insert sheff and matsui this yr they have 6 + weeks for giambi etc, and torre has learned his lesson…
I seem to have more faith in Karstens that everyone else posting here. I know he hasn’t pitched well of late, but he’s a starter originally (or so I thought), so to put him back in a position he’s used to would probably help him.
And I[‘m with Torre on Andy Phillips. He’s the better defensive player at first base, and with some of those throws Arod and Cano make on occasion, that’s not a bad thing.
Giambi’s doing just fine as a DH.
Those steroid complications are catching up to Ortiz. Good timing.
SJ44 is right – people are looking for something to gripe about.
The Karstens move is the right move. He got us through a few games at this same point in the season last year, and the bats are hot right now. 5 IP and about 3 or 4 runs seems about right. If you don’t think he can do that, remember that Chase Wright and the Mighty Mighty Matt did that at the beggining of the year.
You don’t mess up your 40 man roster just to bring up another wonderkid for his first major league start, nor do you assume that, just because Joba’s looked good in limited, babysitting duty, that Kennedy is suddenly going to come up and be the second coming his first time out.
Karstens is absolutely the guy you go to in this situation, whether you some commenters on a sports blong are comfortable with him or not.
I would be tempted to bring Kennedy up, give him the start, and, if he does well, give him Karsten’s spot in the bullpen as the long man. Kennedy throws harder than Karstens, and os more likely to actually help us in the pennant drive, and in the postseason. Point taken, though, that for one start, and Kennedy’s first in MLB, he’s no more of a sure thing than Karstens. I’d be looking beyond the one start to see if we could strengthen our team for the rest of the year.
Kennedy’s innings the last few years:
2004 – 92
2005 – no innings listed, must have been hurt (baseball cube website
2006 – 104
2007 – 129
I don’t think that the Yankees want Kennedy putting in more than 30 more innings anyway, so if he comes up, he wouldn’t lose many innings versus if he remained at AAA as a starter (only 4-5 more starts in AAA, season ends September 3rd). I’d rather see if he can help the big club now, and get some MLB experience. He’s only 22, but the way he has climbed the ladder is impressive.
I wold give Phillips about 2 more weeks to show he won’t revert to his usual sub-.700 OPS self. If he does, I’d have to consider Betemit and Damon over there. Giambi should never hold a glove, as he will just get injured. He should DH 4-5 times a week, tops.
Pete,
Do you have any updates on Kei Igawa??
Phillips is doing just fine. Betemit and Duncan will be given their chances at first, depending on the matchups. I would have liked to see Kennedy pitch. Kevin Reese and TJ Beam can be DFA-ed to open a spot for Kennedy. If not, I don’t care. Jim Brower and Ron Villone will back up Karstens if he doesn’t workout in the start on Tuesday.
I agree with hmmm.
Phillips a below-average hitter who doesn’t do anything well offensively. It’s great that we have plus offense at so many other positions, but there will be times when Phillips is up in a key situation and all that offense we have at other positions won’t mean a thing.
Defense matters at every position, but so does offense. If Betemit can play an adequate first base, he should start there.
Think of it as an upgrade, not a change.
Pete’s words: Don’t look at first base in a traditional sense. Yes, it’s a power position. But the Yankees get far, far more from their catcher, shortstop and second baseman than most teams.
Now see 1941. Yanks had Johnny Sturm at 1b. He hit .239 with 2 Hr. Meanwhile the Yanks had one of the best players in the game (Joe D.)in CF (today it’s Alex at 3b). They got more out of their C and 2b (Dickey and Gordon) than most. Not to mention a .307 from the SS back then (Rizzuto). If you know your history, sometimes answers can be found in the past.
About Karstens on Tuesday, you never know what will happen in one start. My father saw a guy who finished 81-91 in his major league career toss a perfect game. Yup, Don Larsen in Game 5 of the 1956 World Series. How many of you remember who had to start Game 1 of the 1978 ALCS after Guidry and Gossage were used in the 163rd game vs. Boston for the AL East title? How many remember that it was Jim Beattie and Ken Clay teaming up on a 2-hitter over KC? What were the odds on that? That’s why you play the game. You just don’t know…Unfortunately, some people don’t know history prior to, say, 1996…
Regarding postseason performance, you cannot predict that. Who would have expected Larsen in 1956, or Brian Doyle in 1978…or for that matter, told that someone on the Yanks would get 12 hits in the 1953 WS, would you have picked Billy Martin?
Steve Phillips apparently hasn’t seen the strength of schedule or home/away numbers–both of which favor the Yankees. He is also putting a lot of faith in Jeff Weaver for one thing ….
“It seems like they have a little magic going with this rotation of guys.”
even though it makes no rational sense,phillips doesn’t bother me for some reason even though his ops isn’t very good. i don’t ever want to see mientkiewicz in a yankee uniform again. like the drink you forever associate with getting sick on, mienkiewicz brings back all the spring bad memories.
there’s no reason why giambi can’t be risked at first once he gets back to normal playing shape because if he gets hurt it’s no big deal because damon can full time dh. before the logjam at dh it was risk having giambi hurt himself. now it’s no big deal.so let him play there a few games. phillips has to get his average up to .290 or so and throw in a little power to stick around on a permanent basis.
but for right now the rotation mojo is working so why not let it run till it doesn’t work anymore. as long as they are winning 75% of their games, something must be right.
August is close to half finished. Mientkiewicz still has rehabbing to do in minor league games. He wouldn’t be added to the roster until September as a late inning defensive replacement when the Yankees have the game wrapped up. He won’t even be on the playoff roster.
I just read a survey at the boston globe, 46.9% of redsox fans believe this is 1978 again. Boston is losing still in front by 4 games) and redsox fans are terrified.
The Yankees are winning and fans want to tinker with the lineup.Then we complain that Torre last season tinkered with the lineup when Sheffield came back from the DL.We want to have the cake and eat it too.
survey=poll
“Also, if I’m not mistaken, when Mientkiewicz was here, people liked his defense, but were saying something along the lines of “if only he could hit about .280.â€? Well, now, here’s AP hitting around .280. There’s just no pleasing some people.”
no, i didn’t like Mientkiewicz either, but i may have argued that he was the best choice AVAILABLE at the time. but the yankees now have a better choice sitting on their bench. big difference.
look, i am not just “looking for something to complain about”. i LOVE the way this team is playing right now. i couldn’t be happier.
but the simple fact of the matter is that Andy Phillips can’t hit. his swing is WAY too long. he can’t hit lefties. he can’t hit righties.
ok, as long as the team is winning, i wouldn’t care if Torre stuck HIMSELF in the lineup. i just want to win.
but there IS going to come a time, probably this week against Guthrie or Bedard, when the Yankees are going to need those 3-4 outs that Phillips uses up at the plate every game to WIN the game.
like i said, Betemit should play against righties, but Phillips should play when Wang or Pettitte pitches.
an offense/defense platoon makes a lot of sense and over the long haul WILL win more game for the Yankees.
which is all any of us want.
Some thoughts on what’s being said:
@Peter: Your point is valid, although this is the key line that qualifies your statement: “Phillips is a good fit with this team for how it’s playing right now.”
Indeed, at this particular moment in time (for some reason, the word “derivative” just popped into my head. I’m a loser.), the Yankees seem to be clicking well and the extra consistency at 1B seems to be more useful than a bunch more runs. I don’t think Torre can axe Phillips without losing some respect and disturbing some of the chemistry in the team.
OK, so *with that said*. . .there is no way on Earth that the Yankees can look at Andy as next season’s 1B. In fact, if Andy continues his current tailspin (I know there’s a solid chance he pulls out of it!), the Yankees may not even be able to look at Andy as the playoffs’ 1B. The Yankees seem to dropoff more against top-notch pitchers than other teams do (I can dig up a link to back this up), and having threats 1-9 in the postseason will be more important than ever. I definitely hope Andy can get back to July form before September, so it’s important that Torre plays him every day to help him get back in his groove.
But what about next year? I say the Yankees have to “look at first base in a traditional sense” again. You can’t go with THAT low of an OPS at 1B when there are sooooo many better options available on the market. Ideally, the Yankees trade Damon, allowing them to extend Abreu (a much better arm in RF) and free up some money to sign an equally good fielding 1B with a slightly better bat. Another option would be to see if Betemit can handle 1B well, although he might be a valuable trading commodity as a solid hitting/fielding utility man. The worst the Yankees could do is try to retrain Damon at 1B, but an offseason of practice could help him get fairly good at the position. The point is, any of these options just makes more sense over an entire season than Andy Phillips does; as for the rest of *this* season, though, sticking with Andy definitely makes sense.
As for Tuesday’s start. . .it’s one game, people. Karstens is honestly not that great, but there’s no guarantee Kennedy is going to do all that much better. The real problem here is that Edwar Ramirez (0.72 ERA, 37.1 IP, 18 H, 12 BB, 64 K at Scranton) is still in AAA, when he clearly needs to be tested out before the postseason to see if he’s a viable option. Brower needs to be sent back down not for Kennedy but for Edwar, and before Tuesday so that if Karstens can’t go 4-5 innings (SHOCKER!), Edwar will get a few innings to prove himself. Honestly, I think Karstens’ Tuesday performance will decide whether he makes the postseason roster or whether he’s sacrificed for Chris Britton/Sean Henn or maybe Brian Bruney. He certainly should be on a short leash right now.
@38disasters.com: I think you’re being a little harsh on Buster Olney there. I sincerely doubt he said “like” to be sardonic or anything, and I’m pretty positive the Red Sox are going to make the playoffs, the way Beckett/Matsuzaka are pitching and with Schilling’s bright start yesterday. Will they win the AL East? No.
“and another point i forgot, Phillips SHOULD play 1B when Wang is pitching and maybe Pettitte.”
Great point. Right now the Yankees can choose defense (Phillips), righthanded power (Duncan) or lefthanded power (Betemite) to start on any day. It usually makes sense to go with your defender as long as he isn’t terrible with the bat and PH later in the game as necessary. Add the fact that either Damon or Giambi will be on the bench and you have speed or power at any given time. I would absolutely support my groundball pitchers with the best possible defense. Phillips is hitting .305/.345/.419 vs. righties, so I don’t see any reason to sit him in favor of Betemit right now. If he continues to suck against lefties, it might make sense give Shelly Duncan some starts.
As for Andy’s lifetime stats, I would not consider them as heavily as this season’s stats because he has changed his approach. He is taking more pitches and seems to have shortened his swing. Its defintely cost him power, but I’d rather see him hit close to .300 than to jerk 8 HRs on mistake pitches. .285/.335/.410 would be a resonable projection for him. I think his split should even out some over a larger sample size because he doesn’t look lost against lefties this year like he did last year. He’s still not good enough to call him an everyday 1B, but his role in this committee should be to start most games.
“i like Kennedy a lot as a prospect, but it’s silly to pretend that for one game he is any sort of guarantee to come in and shut down a major league offense.”
This is an excellent point, and probably the reason Karstens gets the nod. I have no problem with it. I also think there is a reasonable chance Karstens will do better as a starter. There is no logical reason to bring the guy up for one spot start at this point.
“The Andy Phillips talk is just dumb. The guy has played terrific since they inserted him in the lineup. No reason to sit him down at this time.”
Agreed 100% and it is getting tiresome to read through all of these minor league gurus who think a solid defensive glove at first isn’t as important as offense. I would argue it is far more important on a team averaging 7 runs a game since the break. I also think it is more than just ‘not rocking the boat’. You have to have a solid fielding first baseman above all other qualities in that position. Its the reason they brought Minky here. It comes before offense period. First base is the second most important fielding position in the infield. Can you imagine Giambi trying to hustle to first for the pickoff yesterday? That one play may have literally saved the game for us.
Andy has to start at first period. If not him its gonna be a healthy Minky. Betemit is not the answer at first as we have already seen.
BJ
Karstens has been pretty awful since coming off the DL.
Relax people.
The same brain dead morons who want to sit Phillips are the same brain dead morons who wanted to trade everyone and rebuild in May.
I don’t know if we can take Karstens’ performance this season as a predictor of what is to come on Tuesday. In one outing he was shelled, in another he broke his leg, and in a couple others he was tagged for runs in long relief. He was much better last year, and in Spring Training and rehab starts, when he had time to prepare for his pitching. It seems like he’s not as suited to the bullpen as Torre thought. He might be confusing Karstens with Darrell Rasner, who has come out of the bullpen successfully in the past. Having Karstens pitch on Tuesday is not the worst thing in the world.
And gosh…I can only imagine how angry some people here would be if the Yankees WEREN’T the hottest team in baseball right now……
Besides…who would the Yankees designate for assignment to make room for Kennedy, which is what everyone seems to want? They don’t want to lose anybody right now. It’s not worth it to potentially lose a player just to get one start out of a pitching prospect who might not even pitch well (everyone thought Tyler Clippard would do fine in the Majors, remember?)
“Great point. Right now the Yankees can choose defense (Phillips), righthanded power (Duncan) or lefthanded power (Betemite) to start on any day.”
this is all i am asking.
don’t just call Phillips your starter.
think about your options and play the player every game that gives the best chance to win that game.
SJ44 should be the last person complaining about fans griping. Since he was in the “stick a fork in the Yanks” in 2007 group. That’s the pot calling the kettle black.
“but there IS going to come a time, probably this week against Guthrie or Bedard, when the Yankees are going to need those 3-4 outs that Phillips uses up at the plate every game to WIN the game.”
These kinds of statements are indicative of tunnel vision towards offense. It is inherently wrong for any number of reasons. First off, Andy isn’t an automatic out. He isn’t Arod either granted, but he is hitting albeit below average.
More importantly, he is making game saving plays on defense that are literally stopping competition from scoring runs. This more than makes up for his offense. I’m not sure why so many overlook this more important contribution.
Wait for the Sabremetric Nazis to come out….
BJ
It is now true. Fans will find anything to complain about.
A dominating 3 game sweep, on the road, of a 1st place team and you got people wanting to shake things up.
Aren’t these also the same people who begged the Yanks to trade Giambi 2 weeks ago?
Now they want him playing 1b???
All the back and forth makes my head hurt.
When you have pitchers who put the ball in play you need a first rate defensive team out there.
Andy gives you that and hes not killing us with the bat.
Another point on Philips. I realize he is an older player, but he has shown he can be capable with the bat. With a new approach, the Yanks are hoping he might develop into something more offensively given time.
Why shouldn’t they think this is possible? Look at what guys like Cabrera have turned into. That short experiment will likely yield our starting centerfielder for years to come. The same claptrap about Philips was recycled ad nauseum when Cabrera came up and got spot chances. I would literally be sick watching him play somewhere else.
BTW, its the same reason Iggy isn’t going anywhere unfortunately.
BJ
“SJ44 should be the last person complaining about fans griping. Since he was in the “stick a fork in the Yanksâ€? in 2007 group. That’s the pot calling the kettle black.”
He also provides terrific insight 99% of the time. In my book that gives SJ tremendous leeway. Things become unpleasant when the same posters recycle the same flawed claptrap incessantly.
BJ
I don’t think this has been mentioned, but if you place Kennedy on the 40 man for one start, then he will be arbitration eligible a year earlier and he’ll lose a full option year. Its great to assume that he’ll won’t need three option years, but you might not want to throw a year away for him when our offense is scoring 8 runs a game.
Well, Iggy isn’t harming anybody by starting games in AAA, so don’t worry about him. If he comes back strong, nobody would mind having a (hopefully) solid pitcher at the back of the rotation. He’s a work in progress, so don’t write him off yet.
Phillips’ offense is passable and his defense is outstanding, and he’s made more than his share of sac bunts and other little things that don’t show up on the box scores. No complaints here.
“More importantly, he is making game saving plays on defense that are literally stopping competition from scoring runs. This more than makes up for his offense. I’m not sure why so many overlook this more important contribution.”
can i ask a question?
do you think that saving a run on defense is worth more than scoring a run on offense?
Olney wrote “The Last Night of the Yankee Dynasty: The Game, the Team, and the Cost of Greatness” so he is the resident expert on… wait for it… the Death of the Dynasty. That does not, however, make him the expert on the Yankees 2007. Neither is Buster a Yankee “fan.” He’s more of a Yankee historian, knowing the team and its ways circa 2001 better than most of the ESPN cabal. While Buster still has his informants, it’s 5 years or so since he wrote the book and the Yankees have changed their ways. Thus, take Buster, add a large grain of salt (and some lime and tequila) and stir.
ESPN’s expert handicapping of the playoff picture is amusing when you can just open your eyes and see: Hughes is back (great news) Rocket is holding it together, Pettitte and Moose have made improvements and then there’s Wang being Wang (and no Igawa). The bench is supremely better with Betemit, Giambi and Molina. Joba may be a blessing despite his restrictions. Plus, the results are there. The Yankees ARE their record, therefore they are the hottest team since the All Star break.
At the same time, the Sox are playing with a grey cloud over their heads, with a blown middle pen and thin at set-up. Manny and David are not their usual Punch and Judy, JD Drew is wilting under the pressure of adapting to Boston and Gagne is imploding (He cannot still be overthrowing – he has too much experience to be that stubborn. Something’s wrong with him).
Obviously, the next 17 games or so will dictate the season. Is there a better time to be hot?
lol, wallypip, I wish we could blow up your comment to be 3 times larger than the other posts. That pretty much destroys any reasoning behind starting Kennedy over Karstens.
“He also provides terrific insight 99% of the time. In my book that gives SJ tremendous leeway. Things become unpleasant when the same posters recycle the same flawed claptrap incessantly. ”
agreed. SJ44 is a big part of this blog.
and he and i are disagreeing on something. he’s making good arguments, and i’d like to think i am making good arguments.
there is room for respectful disagreements here, isn’t there?
I like to think of Phillips as no worse, if not better than Scott Brosius who I think did a fine job during his tenure in the Bronx.
No reason why he should not be playing first until the end of the season.
I feel bad for Damon, but he really is the odd man out. I’d take Giambi over him at DH next year, and I really don’t know that I want to see a Damon conversion to 1b. He’s been loose and a class act since his arrival, but he did pull a Wade Boggs 96 the other week, which means a trade is probably on the horizon come November.
“The same claptrap about Philips was recycled ad nauseum when Cabrera came up and got spot chances. I would literally be sick watching him play somewhere else.”
you’re right, it was “claptrap” when talking about Cabrera.
because Cabrera was 21.
Phillips is 30.
the two situations are in absolutely no way related.
“do you think that saving a run on defense is worth more than scoring a run on offense?”
I completely understand what you’re saying, but I think we should also note that Andy seemed to be hitting the ball when no one else was a few weeks ago and has now slumped during the offensive onslaught. Now, I don’t beleive in hitters being “clutch” or “unclutch”, but I do beleive in having a diverse lineup because it makes a lineup harder to beat. There are some days that the pitcher isn’t going to let anyone walk or anyone hit a three run homer. I’d certainly rather have John Olerud in his prime if I was going to have a great defender/singles-hitting 1B, but Phillips just seems to be working out. There maybe something to it, maybe not.
BTW, I agree wholeheartedly that the other guys should be in consideration for getting starts, its just that right now Phillips seems to be the best guy to start most games with the other guys available on the bench.
“I like to think of Phillips as no worse, if not better than Scott Brosius who I think did a fine job during his tenure in the Bronx.”
Brosius was MUCH better than Phillips.
No problems with you on my end hmmm. None whatsoever.
My issue with this team earlier in the year was simple. Lack of effort, which players on the team admit was an issue. Cashman obviously felt the same way since he threatened to send Cano and Melky to the minors in May if their effort didn’t pick up. My other issue was, the previous construction of the team was not good enough (especially the bullpen and bench) to make the playoffs.
Now, the effort is there from everybody and they had the guts to remake the bench and bullpen on the fly. Its a different team, much different if you ask me, than the team that was awful for the better part of the first 2 1/2 months of the season.
I was braggin’ on the minor league prospects in this organization long before most folks knew their names so, I am not surprised at the success of the young kids. I am thrilled Cashman stuck to his guns, kept the prospects, and had the guts to call up Chamberlain for the stretch run.
Respectful disagreements are what makes the blog fun. The other nonsense? In one ear, out the other. Its unimportant in the grand scheme of things.
This debate about Phillips reminds me of the debates about Mientkiewicz earlier in the year. At neither time did we have a clear favorite for first base. Every option had a significant downside. That’s why it’s worth discussing – arguing for Betemit, Phillips, or even Giambi at first is not stupid.
What I care about most right now is Giambi being the full-time DH and Damon sitting unless Giambi or an outfielder needs a day off.
i think we can all agree with what Gaby Johnson has said…..who could argue with that frontier gibbersih?
Hmm,
You certainly have every right to disagree. I wasn’t referring to you or any of your well substantiated posts. Unfortunately I lumped everyone into my response.
Until recently I found myself disagreeing with SJ and others quite often. None of us have a monopoly on what is correct. SJ was wrong about Cano, I was wrong about Vizcaino, and we are both hoping you are wrong about Philips.
I understand your points but respectfully disagree for reasons already mentioned.
BJ
“Brosius was MUCH better than Phillips.”
Agreed. I’m confused how such a comparison is being made. Brosius was a monster for us in the playoffs and won a world series Mvp. I like Andy, but wouldn’t go as far to compare him to Scotty.
BJ
exactly SJ.
LAST point on Phillips (ok, it probably won’t be), but i have to take exception to something Pete said:
“Did you see the critical play in the seventh inning when he and Pettitte picked off Jhonny Peralta? Do you think Jason Giambi makes that play?”
yes, but the final score was 5-3 and Giambi hit a 2 run HR.
how does that not warrant mentioning?
now, i don’t think Giambi should be playing 1B, but there are so many people who are arguing to “not mess with the lineup” that has been working for so long.
yet, if they don’t “mess with the lineup” and play Giambi yesterday, they might not have won.
do you see what i am saying?
that HR was the most important play of the game.
also, Giambi went 1st to 3rd on a single yesterday, yet everyone here has been arguing that he “clogs” the bases and can only move up 1 base at a time. yet there he was going 1st to 3rd.
Andy Phillips is an AAAA player. He is older, and the benefit of experience gives him an edge in AAA. He put up some good numbers in the minors, but this has not translated to the majors. IF you read Baseball Between the Numbers there is an entire section devoted to players playing well in the minors but never succeeding in the majors, and alot of it had to do with age.
Lets look at Andy’s stats, besides the fact that a .650 OPS is horrible for ANY POSITION, ANY PLAYER.:
TOTAL: .282 .323 .376
“I understand your points but respectfully disagree for reasons already mentioned. ”
and that’s cool.
i just want to win.
if the Yankees win the WS with Andy Phillips at 1B, i will be the first one on the canyon of heroes leading the “ANDY ANDY” cheers.
and another thing….not to be a downer, BUT to call the two kids(hughes and joba), successful after just a few appearances is nuts. if they continnue their great piching for the next two months, then thats great. But as much of a genius as people want to say cashman is right now, i think we need to hold off just a bit longer. if eitehr of these guys hurt their arm, than don’t be surprised when everyone says how they should have waited!!!
Son of a gun, it cut off the rest of my post after TOTAL
Basically the gist was look at his stats by day, they are declining.
last 28: 271 .301 .333
last 14: 216 .244 .243
last 7: 158 .190 .158
After a scorching july his august has been mediocore. He has lost 50 points of slugging because all he can manage are seeing eye singles. If you look his swing has developed a slight uppercut and he is lofting balls that would be HRs if he squared them and topping balls for easy grounders.
Also if you buy into the whole “cano is like a 1st baseman! Ape is like a 2nd baseman!” nonsense you’ll be happy to know that Andy Phillips would be ONE OF THE WORST SECOND BASEMEN IN THE LEAGUE.
There is only one player with an OPS below Ape in the top 20 of 2nd basemen by PA, and its JOSH BARFIELD.
Jerkface.
A highly appropriate name.
And why wouldn’t you call Hughes and Chamberlain successful???
What have they done not to be called successful???
The Sox trolls are out in force today. I guess they are little scared up in Beantown.
_That does not, however, make him [Olney] the expert on the Yankees 2007._
Um, his expertise is baseball – just like Ken Rosenthal, Tom Verducci, or Peter Gammons. Never said that Olney was an expert on everything related to the Yankees.
Yea Im a jerk because Andy Phillips is not a good player , that makes sense.
Mind if I point something out real quick? Go here:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/2007NY_-A.php
Run down to “Fielding Statistics By Position” and go to the first basemen. Look under any of the RAR (runs above replacement) or RAA (runs above average) categories. Take sample size into account, but just compare the different players’ stats at 1B.
My point? Andy Phillips is as much of a slick-fielding first baseman as Derek Jeter is a slick-fielding shortstop.
(Note! I’m still not advocating that Andy Phillips gets DROPPED as of tonight’s lineup. Just trying to point out the inaccuracies in some of the claims that are being made.)
Why would anyone be surprised that Cashman held onto the young pitching?
Have they been in a coma the past 2 yrs?
This has been his plan for a long time.
Neil B., but you forget that on this site, defensive statistics are irrelevant at first base.
“the two situations are in absolutely no way related.”
So you are saying that it is impossible for a 30 year old to become a solid offensive force?
They are in the sense that Philips is basically in his second year in the Bigz. You need to look past their absolute age to appreciate that. Melky certainly offers far more at 21, but Philips can still turn things on with his late opportunity in the big leagues.
I have never been a fan of writing someone off so quickly. It was one of the reasons I stood by Cano so aggressively earlier on in the year, and the reason I have stood by Moose. The results of patience with both those players speaks volumes.
I realize what Moose has done in his career, but there was a time on this board where 85% of the banter pointed to him being ‘washed up.’ There were also cries to trade Cano, a move that would have been right up there with the babe.
If you rotate players in and out you may be searching for a long time if you happen to catch players at their worst, or before they learn how to turn things on.
Andy has qualities defensively that make this risk calculated. Further, he has shown us at times he can be competent offensively. I think the reaction to Andy by most was predictable, and said as much would happen the second he slumped, something every big leaguer does at some point.
I am not saying offensive and defensive runs aren’t equal. That statement assumes that Andy is saving exactly as many runs as we lose by having someone else play first. I think the real stat is heavily waited towards his glove in that he saves more runs than we lose by having a 280 hitter instead of 300.
It is impossible to quantify how much Andy saves us on a daily basis with his glove. I have been watching him closely, including the nuances of plays he is involved with, and I think it is tremendous.
My personal bias though is admittedly towards defense. Look at the mockery on the field that is the Tampa defense.
BJ
That sounds great. Let’s mess with success and drop Phillips because he hasn’t had a 4 hit game in a while.
Let’s trade Joba for Texeira too while we are at this.
Some people are such idiots its mind boggling
If you want to keep quoting stats, Big Johnson, you should at least quote Phillips’ minor league stats which shows that yes he can hit.
No one who has watched this team play this season would want Phillips not to play.
“yes, but the final score was 5-3 and Giambi hit a 2 run HR.
how does that not warrant mentioning?”
Hmmm,
It should be mentioned for completeness and fairness. Having said that, there is no telling how many runs they might have scored without the pickoff. I think we can both agree how tremendous a play that was regardless of who might have been playing first.
BTW, I am a strong proponent to having Jason play every day. His offensive ability is tremendous, top ten in the league last year, you just need to look past his batting average to appreciate it. His role should be DH however.
BJ
Has Andy Phllips “weak bat” hurt this team at all since June?
I didn’t think so.
People seem to forget that defense is just as important as offense.
Flagler: I think anyone who has watched this team play this season, and has an understanding of the game of baseball, could definitely say that Wilson Betemit is a better player than Andy ever will be and that his minor league track record means nothing.
Please read up where I posted about Baseball Between the Numbers, the excellent book by the Baseball Prospectus crew. Older players are able to perform at a higher level in AAA because their experience gives them an edge over younger hitters/pitchers.
Andy Phillips is a 30 year old journeyman who shows no baseball skills going forward.
He doesn’t walk, he doesnt have great speed, he has no power, and hits for a pedestrian average that is DECLINING AS WE SPEAK.
“I think the real stat is heavily waited towards his glove in that he saves more runs than we lose by having a 280 hitter instead of 300. It is impossible to quantify how much Andy saves us on a daily basis with his glove. I have been watching him closely, including the nuances of plays he is involved with, and I think it is tremendous.”
This is the Mientkiewicz argument all over again. Phillips has a decent average, but his average means little because he doesn’t draw walks and doesn’t hit for power. He is going to be the biggest outmaker of any regular on the team.
For Phillips to be worth starting every day with such bad offense, his defense would need to be spectacular. But there are fielding metrics that calculate how many runs a fielder saves his team, and those stats show that Phillips is about an average fielder.
The end result is that Phillips costs the team runs because his glove is average and his bat is well below-average for any position, and way below average for a first baseman.
I agree that he makes good-looking plays, plays hard, and has been part of a winning team of late. But the team is winning despite Phillips, not because of him.
Like I said before, using Betemit at first is not a no-brainer due to Betemit’s lack of experience there. I think the best move would be to rotate Betemit in, like Doreen said, and see if he’s comfortable at first. If he plays decently there, then Phillips should be relegated to defensive replacement status, if that.
“My point? Andy Phillips is as much of a slick-fielding first baseman as Derek Jeter is a slick-fielding shortstop.”
And your basing that all on one statistic? I guess I don’t need to watch games anymore. I will wait for the stats instead, will save me a lot of time in evaluating talent.
BJ
I still laugh at the fools here who wanted Vizcaino DFA’d and Cano sent down.
It is another example of fans being dumb and overreacting.
Defensive stats???
What a crock. They can make anyone look good or bad. Depends how they want to make it.
How about looking at it with your own two eyes.
“If he plays decently there, then Phillips should be relegated to defensive replacement status, if that.”
They tried that last year with Sheffield, and this year with Betemit. It is a failed experiment that makes no sense to conduct at this late juncture.
I am well aware of sabrmetrics and understand and appreciate them for what they are. But they simply don’t tell the whole story. The nuances of the game, a huge part of baseball, don’t get recorded in any box score. To truly appreciate how good a player is defensively you need to watch him everyday. Its the reason Jeter won gold gloves despite volumes of stats that said he sucks fielding. The stats often don’t tell the complete story.
BJ
Can we all just agree that neither Josh Phelps nor Minky were the answers at 1B?
“People seem to forget that defense is just as important as offense.”
People seem to forget that offense is just as important as defense.
we could run around in circles forever.
Am I missing something or are there people actually suggesting that Pettitte wouldn’t have thrown to first yesterday if Duncan or Giambi were at first because, what, they couldn’t catch a ball on the run ??? Are you KIDDING me ? Digging out a bad throw at first – hard. Coming off the bag when holding a runner to field ground balls – hard. Making a throw to second to start a 3-6-3 or 3-6-1 double play – moderately hard. Catching a throw on the move – not hard. There is not a player on any ML roster that could not make that play.
I fully understand that Phillips is a better defensive first baseman than Giambi, Betemit, or Duncan, and I don’t advocate replacing him at this point, BUT let’s not go overboard.
Morons will complain about anything.
Anyone that wants Giambi to play 1b has been too busy eating paste.
Stop even trying to make that argument. You won’t win it. It’s worthless. You can quote any offensive stat you want. It won’t help.
I’m guessing the same people thought Phelps was a gold glover too.
Some people never learn.
Not eveyrone can play 1b. Ie Sheffield last year.
If you think Torre will make the same mistake this yr, you’re nuts.
I don’t know if this has been mentioned yet but it’s revealing.
Many people mention that the Yanks are vulnerable against LH pitching citing the 13-17 record. However, since the AS break, the record is 5-3 – roughly twice as good as before the break.
Best case scenario is for Wang to go deep today (8+ innings) and hope Karstens can keep us in the game for 5+ innings.. that would mean Joba, Vizcaino and Rivera for tomorrow.. If we use Joba tonight, then we will be left with villone and farnsworth to fill in for 2-3 innings tomorrow and that usually is not good news..
“That sounds great. Let’s mess with success and drop Phillips because he hasn’t had a 4 hit game in a while.
Let’s trade Joba for Texeira too while we are at this.
Some people are such idiots its mind boggling”
excellent strawman.
i would NEVER trade Joba for Teixeira.
but i might try to get Duncan or Betemit some ABs with a strikeout pitcher like Hughes or Clemens on the mound.
i don’t see how this makes me an idiot.
why the eff aren’t people calling for igawa to come up??? he has better numbers than karstens!
Tinkering with the lineup at this point of the season proves nothing. Torre should know his players and when somebody needs to rest for a game or the charts show a player has little success against a certain pitcher or team. A month ago was entirely different with nowhere near the bench strength the team has now. There’s flexability on this team. It just has to be used correctly by Torre.
“Morons will complain about anything.
Anyone that wants Giambi to play 1b has been too busy eating paste.”
i like paste as much as the next guy, but i am not arguing for Giambi to play 1B. never have been.
i am arguing to rotate Betemit and Duncan in when Wang and Pettitte aren’t pitching.
the only reason i mentioned Giambi’s HR is b/c there were plenty of people who didn’t want Giambi to come back AT ALL. they wanted him released or traded for a bag of balls. those people know who they are.
i would like to see betemit get some time at first because he may be the kind of player who can do things he hasn’t done before. some players have that knack. one way to find out.put him in there. phillips may also play better when he doesn’t have the job. that may be part of his make-up that he plays better when he’s fighting for a job.
sj44′s position if i remember correctly, which i think i do, because i disagreed vociferously ,was that he’d pull the plug on this year if it meant setting up the team for the next five years or so. i disagreed ,but his was a reasonable opinion, just not one that i had. to get both winning now and setting up for the future is beyond amazing. it’s like both sides of the argument got their ideal choice.
competitions ideas in a blog are as important as competing players on a team. let the best
ones win.
Just 4 games out.
Makes for a wonderful summer.
People aren’t calling for Igawa to come up because they’ve seen enough of him to know that he’s probably the worst option, short of having Farnsworth start a game *shudders*
Karstens is still just coming off the DL, and, unless I’m wrong, he was originally a starter. I’m curious to see how he does in a role he’s probably much more comfortable in.
As someone else says, best case scenario is that Wang goes deep tonight so we can save the Viz and Joba for tomorrow.
I-GA-WA!
Setting up for five years down the line? In baseball???
When has that ever worked?
There is no such thing as rebuilding. It’s called reloading. They are still rebuilding in Pittsburgh after Bonds left. Hows that been going?
They are still rebuilding in KC after George Brett retired. They are still rebuilding in Baltimore after Cal retired.
How is there rebuilding going?
“They tried that last year with Sheffield, and this year with Betemit. It is a failed experiment that makes no sense to conduct at this late juncture. ”
well, i have to disagree that they have tried it this year with Betemit and it has failed. 2 games is not “trying”.
but i see your point about trying it so late in the season.
it’s a valid point.
maybe the yankees can get a 3-4 game lead in the WC so they can try a few things.
“I am well aware of sabrmetrics and understand and appreciate them for what they are. But they simply don’t tell the whole story. The nuances of the game, a huge part of baseball, don’t get recorded in any box score. To truly appreciate how good a player is defensively you need to watch him everyday. Its the reason Jeter won gold gloves despite volumes of stats that said he sucks fielding. The stats often don’t tell the complete story.”
Holy Crap. Are you seriously saying that Derek Jeter deserved any of his gold gloves? Fielding statistics show me that Derek Jeter is the WORST short stop in the league. Watching him play CONFIRMS IT. He has ZERO range to his left. He has a terrible first step. Wang and Pettitte have been killed by Jeter this season with his inability to make a play even 3 feet to his left side.
Just about the only thing Jeter does well is charge balls and track pop flies(which is the master of).
But good lord does he not deserve those gold gloves.
Why would they mess with whats working at 1b???
The defense especially in the IF has been fantastic.
You think that might have something to do with the 1b???
You think the pitchers pitching better might reflect that too?
And I dont think Andy is hitting a buck twenty either. He’s no automatic out.
These Yankees need only to stay on target to gain one game each week, no losing ground. When the head to head games with Boston arrive, win 4 of 6 as a realistic goal.
From there Boston can just go into their normal self destruct mode.
Here’s a chance for Torre to show the best managing of his career. He has the horses, it’s up to him to push the right buttons.
Everyone say hi to Jerkface.
A Sox troll at his best.
Anyone that has seen Jeter play SS knows what he brings defensively.
The only ones who bash his D are Rob Neyer and Sox fans.
Andy Phillips has the worst OBP on our team currently. And the worst IsoD. Which means if he is not hitting, he is not getting on base.
Thats an automatic out.
Trade Igawa to San Diego already.
Parker:
I’m a sox troll because I want the team to succeed?! Do you watch Yankees games?!?!?!?!?!?!
Okay, now this is getting downright inflammatory.
@Munsons Cap: Yes, *defensive stats*. They are not a crock. This is ludicrous. I don’t care if you swear by Moneyball or not, stats are not a crock. Defensive stats were made for the precise reason that people were judging players’ defensive performances by eye, and it simply wasn’t adequate. You can look at a fielder and see flashy plays and think he’s a good fielder, but unless you’re somehow watching every single MLB first baseman every single day, you have no way of knowing what routine plays other fielders make that your team’s fielder cannot. Watch Albert Pujols or Derrek Lee (I live in Chicago) field every day. Now THOSE are top-notch defensive first basemen.
@Big Johnson:
“And your basing that all on one statistic? I guess I don’t need to watch games anymore. I will wait for the stats instead, will save me a lot of time in evaluating talent.”
“To truly appreciate how good a player is defensively you need to watch him everyday. Its the reason Jeter won gold gloves despite volumes of stats that said he sucks fielding.”
Wow. Wow. Wow. Let me preface what I’m about to say by agreeing with you on the “all on one statistic” thing. There are a number of defensive measures, and I think they should all be looked at when evaluating defensive ability.
*However*. . .good God. You watch Jeter every day, correct? Are you serious in telling me that he was the best fielding shortstop every year he won the Gold Glove? Really? Have you seen Miguel Tejada field on an everyday basis? What about Alex Gonzalez last year (I’m complimenting a Red Sux, I’m such a traitor)? Have you ever seen Adam Everett (NL player, I know) field? That guy is an absolute wizard with the glove. Holy crap.
I can’t honestly say I watch the Yankees every day, but I watch more than a fair share of games, and I know for a fact that Jeter cannot go to his left. When he goes to his right, he makes some pretty fantastic plays, but overall Derek Jeter is pretty much an average-fielding shortstop. Of course, combine that with his far above-average bat and you have one of the most valuable players in the game. The point is that Jeter fields OK for the hardest position in the game, but he hits way way way way better than the average shortstop, and that’s why he’s so valuable.
Andy Phillips fields average for what is one of the easier positions in the game, and he hits below average for a first baseman. That is a fact.
The only reason you can consider Andy Phillips valuable is that his fielding at 1B (average) is better than any of the other options the Yankees have right now, except for Mientkiewicz (who is a much worse batter than even Phillips). To me, this is enough to keep playing Phillips for the rest of this season, but I want to substantiate some of the arguments being put forth by others.
Saying Phillips is the worst offensive player on these Yanks is like saying saying Heidi Klum is the worst Victorias Secret model.
Get off it already Jerkface. We get your lame point.
I think that the gold glove is the saddest of all a sports awards, sadder than the espys. The day that Rafael Palmeiro recieved the gold glove by playing 25 +/- at 1st base confirmed it. Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad award. Dont pay attention to the gold glove. Thats like arguing that Saddam Hussien is a good person because he recieved the key to the city of detroit in the early 80′s (he did, look it up).
Put Igawa at first, and let him talk to Wang and Clemens during mound visits. He can teach them the art of leaving fat slow fastballs up in the zone over the plate that get hit out, as well as running up the pitch count to 95 in 4 innings.
Thanks Neil for the 10,000 word post saying nothing. Kudos
Thing about Jeter is, though, he’s clutch.
Imagine this: Game 7, World Series, bottom 9, two out, runner on second and you’re down by one.
Who do you want up? Damon? Not unless he starts walking more. Abreu? Depends if he’s hit earlier in the game–he’s either on, or he’s not. Arod? No way; he’s shown before he doesn’t handle pressure well. Matsui or Posada? Maybe, either of them can tie it with one swing, but neither of them run well, so if you only get a single, they’re no threat to steal. Cano or Cabrera? They’re young, which may work for them or against them, but this is the one AB you don’t want to take chances. Phillips? I want him playing defense, not offense in this situation.
Jeter is, hands down, the best option. Granted you never know who’ll come through, but if I’m managing the Yankees, and I get to choose, I choose Jeter.
Actually it’d be like if a very average looking girl was suddenly a Victoria Secret model, and the big Lingerie tournament was about to start, and we had the choice between Average Girl & Hot Chick, and everyone said, “No, don’t let Hot Chick model the lingerie, we sold enough of our new angel bra line even with average girl doing some of the modeling, don’t rock the boat!”
Then we lose the tournament when Average Girl gets struck out by Johan Santana.
Oh, boy.
Jeff Karstens is so bad it’s hard to know where to begin. I think the Yankees had better hope that Daniel Cabrera stays spotty. He’s alternated great starts and terrible ones over his past four.
More important, I’m getting really tired of this Phillips worship. He’s very bad. I don’t care about the play he made at first base yesterday (just as much Pettitte’s pay and Peralta’s idiocy, btw). He’s creating 4.08 runs/27 outs. His OPS+ is 88. He’s got no power.
Giambi’s RC/27 is 6.41. His OPS+ is 129.
Phillips had a WARP of 0.1 last year and an eqa of .237
Giambi had a WARP of 5.1 last year and an eqa of .339
There’s no way Phillips is saving as many runs with his (good) glove as Giambi is getting home with his bat. According to baseball prospectus, in about as many games at 1st base, Phillips let in 3 fewer runs. Over 54 games, that’s one run every 18 days. I have a feeling Giambi can make up for that one run every 18 days with his bat, and then some.
No, Jerkface, you’re a Sox troll because you’re a Sox fan and start arguements over nothing and you’re a bore.
That about sums it up.
By the way, of all the people who write for ESPN, Rob Neyer was the only one who believed that the yankees would turn it around. Rob Neyer is a smart man.
Yea I’m a bore because I demolish all of your “heart and grit” arguments about a bad baseball player.
Also I contend that you are the sox fan, since you apparently want Andy Phillips to keep playing. Which will undoubtedly hurt the Yankees in the long run.
Let’s just say I don’t think we’d lose a playoff series based on Phillips bat.
jerkface, that comment about average girl was hilarious.
disclaimer: that’s the only post i’ve read in this BS flame war about phillips.
Bloomy: That may well be, but we might not win a playoff series based on his bat either. Duncan and Betemit are both GAME CHANGING offensive players. Both have animal power and get on base.
Either one could make a difference in the playoffs. And hopefully Betemit is part of the playoff roster, because he is a great pinch hitter.
@Matty H: You’re very welcome! Next time I’ll post a one-liner that makes a completely unsubstantiated claim. I totally didn’t make any point about Phillips and Jeter being overrated fielders, or Phillips only being valuable because he doesn’t field as poorly at 1B as Damon or Phelps (who even knows about Betemit or Duncan).
BJ,
“To truly appreciate how good a player is defensively you need to watch him everyday. Its the reason Jeter won gold gloves despite volumes of stats that said he sucks fielding.”
I doubt a majority of people who voted Jeter for GG saw him play every day. And anyone who did probably didn’t see every other major league SS play every day. More likely, Jeter won GGs because he is famous, can make a flashy play every now and then, and has won it in the past. (GG voters are also lazy. Look at Eric Chavez.)
The whole point of stats for anything in baseball, offense or defense, is that it’s impossible for anyone to watch every player every day. And even if you could hypothetically do that, you would not be able to remember each player’s performance accurately.
It’s often said that Jeter’s highlight-reel plays to his right make most people forget all the plays he doesn’t make on his left. I think a nice scoop by a first baseman is similar. A lot of fans raved about Mientkiewicz, and now Phillips, because he makes a nice scoop now and again, but most of us don’t, or can’t, really observe and remember all the plays they don’t make. That’s why Mientkiewicz and Phillips are rated as average fielders statistically but seem like they should be better.
As for tinkering by using Betemit at first, the real question is why not. If Betemit can give us more offense at first without significantly sacrificing defense, why not use him? It won’t cause anyone else to play worse.
Let’s just say that our chances of winning a hypothetical series would be hurt by having Andy Phillips in the lineup. Let’s just say that it’s not a risk that needs to be taken in an environment where so much is left to luck, anyway.
Andy Phillips is BAD.
I really don’t care about all these stathead numbers about Phillips…
Watch the games and you will remember about a month ago when Phillips was absolutely raking in every situation — he had like 5 or 6 key two out RBI hits that were instrumental in Yankee victories.
When he gets up with a runner on third and less than 2 outs… I have confidence that hes going to put the ball in play. And that’s all that I think the Yankees are asking from him – in addition to extremely solid play at first base which he has provided.
on paper his hitting is a small hole in the lineup — if you watch the games, the Yankees aren’t the same without him.
Ohhh geez. Phillips sucks.
Lets go trade one of the prized kids for a competent 1b. How about Joba for Dmitri Young? He’s good.
Do it Cashman. Listen to the rubes.
Forget that they have the best record in the league the past 2 months.
No. They need a big bat at 1b.
Derek Jeter has regressed. I don’t want to say that he’s the worst shortstop in the American League defensively. But it’s pretty hard to make a compelling argument that he’s any better than 10th or 11th.
That’s why we’re all so happy that Derek Jeter hits like a machine.
I got no respect for stat heads.
It’s all about pitching. And the pitching is OBVIOUSLY better with Phillips at 1b.
Ask Beane how good stats are when Chavez and Crosby don’t hit and you only got 1 good SP.
All this calling for more power and more production at one position in an already studded lineup is how the Yankees have gotten tied up into huge contracts with aging players…
This year is different… You have to prefer the half home-grown, solid, cohesive, TEAM, that this year has turned into for the Yankees.
It doesn’t feel like the team of hired guns that it’s felt like in the past, does it… Those teams might have gotten to the playoffs, but were dead in the water against teams like the Angels and Tigers which had good players, but a GREAT pieced together roster.
ditto, Bloomy. Or on Karstens’s arm.
Much better reply Neil. See? It wasn’t that hard.
You don’t care about the stathead numbers?
That’s why you wouldn’t be a GM. Because your memory has a positive bias for moments you remember happily. I was delighted when Bubba Crosby hit a walkoff HR. I remember the pitch, the pitch sequence, and Crosby’s reaction. I know intuitively that he was terrible. But I have a tougher time remember him striking out.
Over the long term, those numbers bear out that Andy Phillips is the inferior option in the lineup.
Halfz: Exactly. Derek Jeter’s main asset is his bat. I actually think that A-rod at SS, Jeter at 3B would be pretty amazing. Jeter could charge bunts like a madman and make all the pop flies in foul territory look like childs play. A-rod will once again give us a SS that could make it to 2nd base to field a ball. It will never happen though.
Bouncy Balls: You are a flippin moron. We don’t need to trade for anyone. We have 2 BETTER 1st basemen on our bench.
“Lets go trade one of the prized kids for a competent 1b. How about Joba for Dmitri Young? He’s good”
another strawman.
who is arguing for that? point to one post that is arguing that.
people are arguing for more ABs for Betemit and Duncan. some people are arguing for Giambi.
none of these involve “trading one of the prized kids”.
strawman: setting up an argument that no one actually made so you can easily shout it down.
When Duncan botches a ground ball or a throw from A-Rod at 1b, I got to think the people that wanted Andy off first will be the first ones bashing him being moved.
Typical for here though.
I don’t understand the implication that people who understand stats don’t watch the games. I’d think that anyone who cares about the Yankees enough to post on a Yankee blog watches the games.
oi, Jerkface. . .Bouncy Balls was being sarcastic. Also, we may have two better offensive 1B on the bench, but I don’t know how good they are defensively. A bit of an unknown quantity there. Might be dangerous to start playing Duncan or Betemit every day without seeing how they do on the field first. . .
Considering David Eckstein won the WOrld Series MVP, why couldn’t Phillips contribute in a playoff series with his bat????
You seem to be going out on a limb by saying he’s worthless. Like no player ever stepped up his game???
The thing that needs to be considered in this debate is the effect that defense has on our pitching staff (which is a much weaker link than our offense). Good defense not only saves runs, but it also saves our starters from having to throw extra pitches and risk further exposure (I am thinking Moose right here).
Giambi needs to get his AB’s at DH and not in the field. He is terrible with the glove and has the throwing yips. He cannot start a double play and has zero range around the bag. He can, however, pick low throws pretty well.
I am all for the better defender getting more playing time (especially with ground ball specialists like Wang and Pettite pitching)and Giambino part of some sort of platoon at DH (and maybe the occasional start in the field).
Oh, good. Meat Loaf makes another error. Babies should have the phrase “correlation does not imply causation” tattooed to the inside of their eyelids.
The idea that Andy Phillips is making the pitching staff better is hilarious. And stupid.
Maybe it’s the fact that they faced a bad lineup (Toronto) and a struggling one (Cleveland). Or maybe it’s the soothing influence of Andy Phillips. Who, btw, was 3/19 with no XBH and 1 BB on the homestand. It’s going to be tough when your OBP is .200 to justify staying in the lineup.
Derek Jeter has an .384 OBP in the playoffs and slugs .479.
Arod has an .362 OBP and slugs .485. Bottom of the 9th, 2 outs, i would pick either one.
…
“All this calling for more power and more production at one position in an already studded lineup is how the Yankees have gotten tied up into huge contracts with aging players…”
I’m calling for the Yankees to use Betemit at first, who is 5 years younger than Phillips.
Eddie:
Incorrect. I’ve already seen Ape mess up atleast 3 plays with his poor scooping and stretching and throwing to know that Duncan or Betemit could mess the same plays up easily as well but atleast provide some offense to back it up.
Betemit is younger, cheaper, better, and under our control for 5 years. Put the man at 1st base.
“I like to think of Phillips as no worse, if not better than Scott Brosius who I think did a fine job during his tenure in the Bronx.”
That could be one THE most ridiculous things I have ever read. Scott Brosius was such a better hitter than Phillips that isn’t even fair to compare the two. Even if that weren’t the case, Brosius was a better defensive third baseman than Phillips is at first, a much less difficult position than third.
Oh, boy.
Andy Phillips was 5 runs worse than average last year in his time at 1st
Jason Giambi was 8 runs worse than average last year in his time at 1st.
The fact that you can remember Phillips laying out and making nice plays on a few line drives down the line doesn’t mean he’s actually a great defensive player.
That’s the value of stats. I watch as many games that I have. Because I have strong personal preference for some of the players (I hate Giambi), I tend to overstate in my mind the contributions made by players whom I like. Phillips is a non-contributor.
Sorry to be contrarian. I do like him.
Bottom of the 9th, 2 outs in the WS, ARod gets the at bat. No question. He is the most dangerous player in the league.
“oi, Jerkface. . .Bouncy Balls was being sarcastic.”
Yes, sarcastically implying that people who hate Andy Phillips want to trade for Mark Teixeira.
“Considering David Eckstein won the WOrld Series MVP, why couldn’t Phillips contribute in a playoff series with his bat????”
Eckstein is a terrible player and does not deserve to be in the game of baseball.
Pete, I have to hand it to you. YOu had to know that people would be all over you for your pro-Phillips, non-anti-Karstens post. I’m with you, but I know how others feel.
Hooray, Pete!
David Eckstein is pretty bad. It’s astounding that he finished 4th in ROY voting with an OPS+ of 84. And that he finished 11th in MVP voting with an OPS+ of 103 (which essentially made him the composite league average player).
What could explain this?
The fact that he’s 5′ 3″, 125 pounds, and white.
@Jerkface: Oh come on. Be nice. He’s an average player (who, as FJM points out, has succeeded “despite” being short). I don’t think he doesn’t deserve to be in the game of baseball. I just think the biggest reason the Cardinals won last year is because random dudes on the pitching staff went crazygonuts (Jeff Weaver?!?!?!) and because of some random dude playing at 1B. The result? David Eckstein wins the WS MVP. Go figure.
for my bill james stat of the day, the yankees are 2 games up on the red sox in the pythagorean standings.
i actually like that particular statistical analysis work from james. and so much fun to point out to red sox fans on cape cod here. right after saying,”how’s it going with gagne?”.
“Eckstein is a terrible player and does not deserve to be in the game of baseball.”
Amen!
Personally I have no problem with DHing Giambi and letting Phillips play first. Damon is the odd man out, but that tends to happen when your hitting .250 in August. He can spell Giambi every now and then, or Matsui if he needs a rest. Duncan can DH against tough lefties, or start in place of Phillips if his bat goes truly cold. Then again you have Betemit who can play first as well, so it doesn’t matter which way you go there.
Phillips bat has gone cold, and its tough not to think that his hot start was just that, a hot start. And I know that WARP and VORP and DORP and GORP and HORP and everything else says we need to sit him, but I really do think his glove and .250 bat with decent pop is worth keeping in the lineup. Giambi(although he scoops well) is brutal in terms of range and throwing the ball, and whenever he players first he hurts himself. Now I need to see betemit play first a few more times before I annoint him the new firstbaseman, but he is an athletic player, so I’m sure he can handle the load there everyday.
So the argument really comes down to Betemit and Phillips. For now, while we are winning you can stay with Phillips as long as he can hit himself out of a paper bag, but if his trend continues it would make sense to swap the two.
And for anyone I offened with my terrible joke the on sabermatic stats, sorry, I do like VORP, but the defensive ones I don’t believe gives a complete picture of how a guy plays defensively. Like Peter used to say earlier this season, people used those stats to show Phelps had a better glvove than Dougie M. No way in the world is that true just by watching them
Why would you switch out Phillips right now?
Like really…What has he done to lose a spot..besides hit .280 and play solid defense?
Duncan can mash and Betemit is a good switch hitter and all…but when you’re scoring 7 runs a game, why sacrifice a good glove and contact bat when there is no need?
They’ve been playing great baseball..if phillips dips down to .240, which could very well happen, then it’s something to look into.
Pheleps hit a homerun yesterday for the Bucs. Fire Cashman!
I don’t think anyone used those stats to show Phelps was better defensively than Mientkiewicz, but did use them to show that Malphabet was not as good as all the ‘watch da games!!1′ people were claiming. And that the net result of playing Phelps over Doug would be a + for the yankees because Phelps was much better with the bat.
The main points being made by the “drop Andy Phillips” advocates:
1. Andy Phillips is NOT an above-average fielding 1B.
2. Andy Phillips is a below-average hitter. Even when he was on his “hot streak”, he was basically hitting average for a 1B – that’s how high the batting expectations of a 1B have come to be.
3. Wilson Betemit and Shelley Duncan hit better than Andy Phillips. So does Johnny Damon, although he’s not 100%.
Points against dropping Andy Phillips:
1. The Yankees are winning.
2. No one on the Yankees fields 1B better than Andy Phillips. Except Minky. Stay away, Minky. Stay far, far away.
And that’s it. Andy is 30 years old and has proven himself to be a subpar hitter. He will never hit as well as an average MLB 1B, just like Bubba Crosby will never hit as well as an average MLB OF. This is a fact. Proponents of keeping Andy in the lineup should stick to the two points above, not any mishmash about how his bat is better than we think it is.
As for Phillips stepping up, anything is possible in the short term. But since he’s 30, chances are his “hot streak” in July when he hit .300 with no power was his absolute best, and what we’re seeing now (bad average, no walks, no power) is more typical.
… :
If Phillips dips down to .240 that means he will have continued his horrific slump. He is not hitting right now. You don’t let him to continue to make outs until his avg reaches the boiling point. Look at his averages for the last 14 days, its already worse than .240.
The yankees cannot afford to let it fester, they have to sit him and give some ABs to Dunc and Betemit. Even if its not permanent, we have those players for a reason.
“When Duncan botches a ground ball or a throw from A-Rod at 1b, I got to think the people that wanted Andy off first will be the first ones bashing him being moved.”
and what if he hit a 3 run HR in the same game?
if you feel that Phillips is the best choice b/c he will eventually hit more and save lots of runs defensively, that is FINE. i disagree, but i am fine with that.
but you can’t argue that we’d bash Duncan without knowing what offense he provided.
I don’t think anyone used those stats to show Phelps was better defensively than Mientkiewicz, but did use them to show that Malphabet was not as good as all the ‘watch da games!!1’ people were claiming. And that the net result of playing Phelps over Doug would be a + for the yankees because Phelps was much better with the bat.
Okay I may be wrong, maybe Pete can settle that discussion for us. I just remember his post about how people said Phelps was a very good defensive first baseman when everytime I saw him he was butchering a short hop. And yeah doug isn’t much at all with the glove, but it wasn’t like Phelps was tearing the cover off the ball either. So if both guys were gonna hit .240, I rather have the guy who saves a run or two with his glove.
Its truly amazing on how many bloggers know more about the Yankee player performance than the Organization itself!
Ian Kennedy will most likely become a better MLB pitcher than Jeff Karstens. But at this point in time, considering the experience factor, 40-man roster, past performance (Karstens has a ERA of 1.80 against Baltimore, albeit only 5 IPs – Kennedy obviously has no history) and any other factors that we may not even be aware of – Karstens seems to be their best option. Don’t you think that the coaching staff, scouting staff, and Front Office personnel discussed the Tuesday start before making their decision? I trust that they have infinitely more knowledge at their disposal than any of us.
Its truly amazing on how many bloggers know more about the Yankee player performance than the Organization itself!
Ian Kennedy will most likely become a better MLB pitcher than Jeff Karstens. But at this point in time, considering the experience factor, 40-man roster, past performance (Karstens has a ERA of 1.80 against Baltimore, albeit only 5 IPs – Kennedy obviously has no history) and any other factors that we may not even be aware of – Karstens seems to be their best option. Don’t you think that the coaching staff, scouting staff, and Front Office personnel discussed the Tuesday start before making their decision? I trust that they have infinitely more knowledge at their disposal than any of us.
Cut these guys some slack – they’ve been doing “pretty well”
since the All Star Break!
The idea that things are clicking so Andy Phillips should retain his job makes no sense.
The Yankees were clicking last year and then lost to the Tigers in 4.
I think they’re a very strong team. But beating the Blue Jays and Indians convincingly doesn’t mean anything.
It would be reprehensible for the Yankees not to take any appropriate in-house steps to make themselves a better team. I’m not saying trade anyone for anyone else. I’m not saying berate Andy Phillips and make him cry. I’m just saying that the Yankees have more compelling options available to them.
I think that the front office is more concerned with not starting Kennedy’s service time clock and making unnecessary roster moves than with him being better or worse than Karstens.
I think if there was no ‘roster’ and no ‘service time’, you’d be watching Kennedy out there on Tuesday.
Now people are bashing David Eckstein who is an overachiever. Just stop the madness.
Give me lazy Miguel Tejada over hustle mcgrits alot david eckstein any day.
Lathamjoe, yes, you would assume they do. However…
Tony Womack
And he’s the just first name on a longer list.
I have no problem with starting Karstens over Kennedy. Im extremely excited to see what Ian can do, but the 40 man roster move makes things a little more difficult. Karstens has pitched well in spot starts in the past, but maybe he’s still hurting a bit since he broke his leg. However I do think this is a good test to see what he can do.
Maybe he works better as a starter than a long man. (That would be unfortunate because he won’t ever in my opinion be an everyday starter for the yankees, and he has way more value to us as a long man), which is true for some people.
Now if all that is keeping Kennedy off the 40 man roster is Chris Basak, well I just hope the organization is sure that Karstens is 100% for this game. But I’m not gonna piss and moan about this issue. (like some people seem content to do)
bucholz is pitching for the sox friday
Yeah, it’s not a Cardinals fan. But it’s a germane point. People like Eckstein because he’s undersized and can barely throw the ball to first. He has heart.
That’s the sympathetic bias.
People shouldn’t like him because he’s not good.
That’s the same trap we have with Mr. Phillips. I guess people like Andy because he’s 30 and scrappy and ultra religious and his mom was sick.
I think they’re a very strong team. But beating the Blue Jays and Indians convincingly doesn’t mean anything.
Um it does mean something, I mean they did win 4 out of 5 games. A win is a win, and it shows they are playing good baseball right now.
Can Bernie Williams play first?
seriously,
Joe will keep Damon and Giambino fresh this way, at there age this is a good thing,so leave Phillips alone.
also, How is Jorgie’s neck? Molina for three days should have given him some needed time tio recharge.
A lazy player over hustle mcgrits alot David Eckstein any day??? Are you serious?? LOL. PETE, SAVE US NOW!!!!
_bucholz is pitching for the sox friday_
Where did you hear this, Greg?
One of those players actually has positive value to his team. I’ll let you figure out which on your own!
No. It means that they won 5 of 6 games. Against two mediocre teams. I’m as happy as you are about it. But not happy enough to deleriously award a job to Andy Phillips that he doesn’t deserve.
Refusing to upgrade at a particular position because the team is winning is more superstition than strategy.
If I were Brian Cashman, I would try to trade Jason Giambi in the off-season. If Giambi continues to tear the cover off of the baseball for the remainer of this season, there’s no reason why trading him will be a problem.
True, he’s owed $22 million for next year with a team option for 2009 for the same amount and a $5 million buyout if a team doesn’t pick it up. The point is that Giambi’s contract only has 1 year left and so carries limited financial risks compared with the production that his left-handed bat brings. A team such as Anaheim, which has searched so long for a power bat to hit behind Vlad, could very well be a trade partner. And, with the Angels’ loaded farm system, it would not be unreasonable to get a decent return of a few prospects for Giambi, who would serve as the DH for the 2008 Angels.
With Giambi traded, The Yankees could slot Matsui, who has been happy DHing, as the designated hitter while playing Damon in left field. Philips stays on 1st base where he belongs and you can try out Shelley Duncan in rightfield if the Yankees decide not to pick up Abreu’s team option for 2008. The Yankees can have a rotating DH of Duncan, Damon, and Matsui while possibly bring up Bret Gardner as a reserve outfielder who can come off the bench late in games and have a Homer Bush-type role in close games. Betemit will be an insurance policy in case A-Rod leaves or be the reserve infielder in case A-Rod stays. Shawn Green, who will be 35 next season, could be signed as a decent backup outfielder for 2008 in case the Yankees decide they need an affordable veteran lefty bat off the bench to replace Giambi.
If Abreu’s 2008 option is picked up, he could be used as a bridge until Jose Tabata, who’s currently hitting .300 in High-A Tampa, is ready. Shedding the remainder of Giambi’s salary will make it easier to pick up Abreu’s 2008 option, which I believe is about $16 million and since his contract is a third less than Giambi’s and since Abreu can play a good outfield, it makes this scenario more likely. There’s also the possibility of the Yankees reworking Abreu’s 2008 option into a 2-year back-end loaded extension worth $23-26 million. With Farnsworth, Pettitte, Mussina, and Pavano’s contracts off the books after 2008, a back-end loaded extension for Bobby Abreu makes the most sense in that the bulk of it will be paid to him in 2009.
The money saved would serve the Yankees well when it comes to their paying a lower amount of luxuary taxes as well as contributing less to revenue sharing. It will also aid in their pursuits of Johann Santana and Mark Teixeira if they enter the free agent market after the 2008 season. In addition, locking up Wang & Cano to long-term deals will save the Yankees additional money in the long haul which they can use to add even more talent into the organization.
No. It means that they won 5 of 6 games. Against two mediocre teams. I’m as happy as you are about it. But not happy enough to deleriously award a job to Andy Phillips that he doesn’t deserve.
Okay seriously how long do we have to here about the yankees playing weak competition. I mena aside from Boston and the Angles(who were really slumping for awhile themselves) whose great in the AL League. Cleveland looked terrible this weekend, but they are one of the top 5 teams. Detroit we all know is tough, but there record of late makes them a mediocore team too. People will call Seattle mediocore because they have the same record as Cleveland and haven’t won anything recently.
Fact is Toronto was over .500 when we played them, and Cleveland did have a better record at first. We beat two good, yet flawed teams. I guess we just have to beat the Angles and Boston all season for some people to consider the yankees legit.
Refusing to upgrade at a particular position because the team is winning is more superstition than strategy.
Tell that to Theo. Or Torre who thought the same thing last October. Granted I know your right, but sometimes its just not a good idea to shake things up. Personally I like what Crash Davis once said….”Don’t F*** with a winning streak.”
Um, there is no chance Giambi gets traded.
He makes too much money and always a health risk and defensive liability.
Giambi has a full NTC and doesn’t want to be traded.
that’s the fly in the ointment.
although if the Angels were willing to pick up his 2009 option, i bet he would waive it.
how come substituting Giambi for Damon yesterday didn’t stop the losing streak, but subbing Betemit for Phillips would?
how was that not “messing with the lineup”??
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/.....t_id=16855
You guys should ask Buster to settle your debate about Andy.
Lots of NY questions. Buster is sticking to his pre-season prediction of Yankees missing the playoffs based on principle and these pushy NY fans keep coming at him. It’s pretty funny.
StandingO’Neill: Yea, actually they should be told. Torre and Tito/Red Sox are both victims of not altering their plans. Or when they do alter their plans they do it retardedly. Torre and Tito both rely on a set pattern of bullpen relievers and lineups that make no goddamn sense at all. Look at Eric Gagne being trotted out in high leverage situations to blow the game. Not that I’m complaining about that.
Also I refuse to believe that the above well worded post about trading Giambi actually included having Andy Phillips at first next year, and Duncan in RF. Betemit is the first baseman going forward, or should be. If we re-tain A-rod you let Betemit work at 1st in the winter dominican leagues and in spring and make him the starter. Andy can be the backup infielder.
When have the angles ever parted with their prospects? And the funny thing is, hardly any of those prospects have panned out.
Both catches Napoli and Mathis are struggling. McPherson was a bust before he got injured. Wood is struggling in the minors now, and his highest value may have disappeared. Aybar struggled in his short time in the majors. Kotchman came around a lot this year, but he’s dropped back to reality a bit. Santana is great at home but terrible on the road. And Saunders has been up and down.
Now Im not saying any of these guys won’t break out, and I’m sure more AB’s will help them, but other than K-Rod, the last crop of prosects haven’t contributed much, hence the reason for all the free agent signings.
Oh and I’m not a big Reggie Wilits fan either.
I’m with Standing O’Neill.
Cleveland’s a playoff caliber team; we were lucky to catch them when we did. If we caught them when Sabathia was pitching, and lost that game, everyone would be talking about how good the Indians are. Contrary to what Micheal Kay says, the Indians do have the second highest run total thus far (behind, of course, the Yankees). At least, they did the last time I checked–feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. Their team ERA was under 3 at the outset of the series.
Toronto was an over .500 team. It usually plays somewhere around there, I think, but it’s always overshadowed by Boston and New York. If it had players that could stay healthy, and played in another division (like, for instance, the AL Central), I wouldn’t be surprised to see them in first.
I’m not sure I want Damon in left when we’re away. He’s shown he can play left at the Stadium, but on the road he simply looks lost. It’s an easily solvable problem with Matsui, though. I want Abreu in right–he’s got one hell of an arm, and when he’s on, he’s on.
If Giambi stays, I want him DHing, but I think trading him would not be a horrendous move, especially with what the Yankees could get for him. As a plus, if they did trade him, they also trade away all the ‘roid hoopla that surrounds him. It’s not exactly something you want hanging over your clubhouse come October.
It is, however, very reassuring to know that the Yankees have been able to deal with nearly all of their issues from within.
A lot of people were saying that the Yankees made bad moves at the trade deadline; but it now looks like they didn’t really need to make any moves, and the one they did make–Molina for Nieves–has been an unmitigated success.
@karlkole:
Not a bad idea, especially considering that trading Giambi is easier (and will bring more back) than trading Damon, who would be the better option to trade at the moment. If Giambi can fetch a nice package, move Matsui to DH and Damon to LF for sure, but *please* don’t keep Phillips at 1B. Yikes.
Especially if they decline Abreu’s option, the Yankees will need considerably more offense at 1B than they’re getting right now to make up for it. I don’t know if Shelley Duncan has a strong enough arm to play RF every day, but I know for sure that Andy Phillips doesn’t hit well enough to play 1B over a full season. Best idea is to get either Duncan or Betemit to play full-time 1B next year, and then use the money from trading either Damon or Giambi to re-sign Abreu.
Also I refuse to believe that the above well worded post about trading Giambi actually included having Andy Phillips at first next year, and Duncan in RF. Betemit is the first baseman going forward, or should be. If we re-tain A-rod you let Betemit work at 1st in the winter dominican leagues and in spring and make him the starter. Andy can be the backup infielder.
I agree with you on this. In the long run Betemit is the better player. Honestly I like Phillips the person and admire how he plays the game hard. I’d like to give him a little more time to see if he can find his stroke, and just have Betemit be a jack of all trades guy. But I understand we are in a playoff race, and we may not have time to let Phillips find himself, if he ever would. If I was manager of the yankees I’d take a different approach and sprinkle in more Betemit. But as a fan posting on a message board, I can hope Phillips figures it out tomorrow and hits like he did in July.
Standing O’Neill–I actually like Joe Saunders. If we trade Giambi to the Angels, I’d take Joe Saunders & another player.
Andy Phillips is good for the team and brings good chemistry to the Yankees with his play in the field and clubhouse presence. Why would any sensible Yankee fan wish to throw this away and for what?
A bigger bat?
Ask yourself, in the last 5 years, has all these big bats that have been brought in resulted in #27 ???
How many times have we been shown the exit in the ALDS ???
Our 1996-2001 dynasty was built on the value of team chemistry, not the bats of players such as Sosa, McGuire, and Bonds.
At worst, Andy Phillips will be used next year as a bridge to Mark Teixeira, who becomes a free agent after to 2008 season.
With Andy Phillips, he gives the Yankees a lot of options on who to sign and where to spend their dollars to make the team better.
Yeah Saunders I don’t mind, being a lefty is always good. If we were able to trade big G, I don’t think we’d get much, but just Saunders alone and most of the salary would be worth it.
Oh and I should comment I did forget Jared Weaver whose been real good, so a mistake on my part. I haven’t seen his splits this year, but last year he had a bad groundball to flyball ratio, so I could see him struggling in the future.
Im also curious to see Nick Adenhart(sp?). Hes been good in the minors and projects as a top of the rotation guy (2-3)
Harley:
Every Team that’s active on signing free agents and making trades to improve their pennant chances makes mistakes and has horror stories to tell.
Yes, Womack, Brown, Vazquez, Farnsworth have all been mistakes, but teams like Boston, the Mets and other organizations who strive to contend each year make mistakes too!
The bottom line is that Yankee Teams are still in Post Season play every single year (and now have built a solid MILB system foundation) – not many organizations can boast those achievements.
Enjoy the ride while it lasts and quit yer bitchin’!
how about that back up catcher! good job cashman. better late than never. i think cashman does a better job when his butt’s on the line. of course most of us do.including me.kudos to cashman on stepping it up, but i do not go with the notion he had it all planned from the beginning. he’s recovered nicely though.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sp.....9853.story
Curteosy of the Baltimore Sun(pete can I post this). Just an intresting article about a redsox player complaining that the Orioles steal signs. And it won’t be hard to guess which player is whinning.
I don’t follow the Angels, but are Napoli and Mathis struggling? Why did Molina drop down in the depth chart anyway? Can’t really think of a better 1/2 than Posada/Jose right now. Jose seems to call a good game and I think we’ve found a personal catcher for Moose.
As for the Andy debate, if that’s the biggest problem this team has going into the final stretch of the season then things are really going well. You can’t go wrong either way, solid, not spectacular, first baseman. The other options look o.k., too. Of course you compromise because players are not identical and you can’t really look at stats. Putting Jason at 1st really doesn’t do it for me though, esp. since he’s happy being the DH and cheerleader.
Someone asked if you’d rather have your first baseman stop a run or get a run. On this particular team where offensive production is above average at most positions you take the guy who can save you runs. The more balls that get past the first baseman, the longer the innings, the more likely additional runs score, etc. The goal is not just puts runs up, but keep runs off as well. Somebody’s got to play defense, why not have a 1B on a team that puts the ball into play a lot?
Giambi won’t be a defensive liability if he is the DH for the Angels. If, and this is a big IF, he stays healthy and rips the ball for the rest of this season, his value can only increase.
Add to this the fact that Giambi’s from the West Coast will increase the chance that he will waive his NTC and make a trade to Anaheim a more likely possibility. Giambi would want to be traded to a contending team, which the Angels certainly are. Picking up his 2009 option can only help.
Courtesy*
Torre is a victim of not changing his plans?? Have you watched this team this year?
He benched Damon for not playing well. He’s moved Abreu all around the batting order when he was struggling. He has changed the lineup just about every game this season, in some way, shape or form.
He has moved guys out of established roles in the bullpen. When the team DFA’ed two of his favorite players (Myers and Cairo) and didn’t say a negative thing about it.
He kept a kid with less than 50 ML AB’s (Duncan) when Giambi came off the DL. He has refused to take Melky out of the lineup, even though some folks in this blog still insist he will do so.
How many more “changes” do you want the guy to make? They have been making changes all season.
Andy Phillips is neither a problem or the primary issue facing the team at this stage. They are one arm short (reliable arm) in the bullpen.
That’s a much bigger issue than Andy Phillips.
If Andy slumps offensively, they have options to replace him.
If they don’t find another reliable arm in the bullpen, they will have problems closing the deal, IMO.
That’s the issue we should be talking about, not Andy Phillips.
Viper:
Regarding Olney, I wasn’t suggesting that you or anyone else here was touting Buster as “the authority” on the Yankees. I was trying to express that Buster is propped up as the resident ESPN Yankee expert because he wrote the book and has covered them. My problem with Buster/ESPN is that ESPN is content to let Buster live off the rep he built with the book. To be fair, he did capture a lot of things that were true 5 or 6 years ago. And while Gammons, Rosenthal and the rest all have their insights and informants, and know a lot more baseball than I do, IMO, Buster is out of touch with the organization as it currently stands.
Agreed SJ44, viz has been good and Joba is tremendous, but Joba only pitches like once every 3 days, and Viz and Mo can’t do it every day either. They need one more reliever who can spell those two. Sort of like a Proctor plus. Don’t know if we have that player in the minors though.
I was intrigued when I heard the yankees asked for Cla Meredith for Igawa. I didn’t think that was possible til I saw Meredith was struggling a bit this year. Hed be interesting if he can revert to last years form.
Mel,
Napoli has been on and off the DL. Bill Stoneman (Angels GM) wanted Mathis called up because he had no intention of re-signing Molina after this season and is still convinced Mathis could turn out to be a good catcher.
Some scouts I talked to doubt Mathis will turn the corner defensively (he’s not good) but think he will hit better than he has hit.
Its interesting because Escobar really worked well with Molina and has struggled when being caught by Mathis.
As we have seen, Molina really works well with the pitchers. That’s his biggest asset.
I think Napoli is either back, or ready to come back, from the DL. That will relegate Mathis as the backup for the rest of the season.
i’m all for getting another reliever, but don’t they have a decision to make with farnsworth? what is he? that’s the question to me. why isn’t he the guy they got ? they should send him to spend a week with contreras and connors down in tampa. do something different . anything. and then make a decision. he’s just taking up space at this point.
Is there honestly anyone in this forum who can’t name 20 MLB shortstops they would rather have than David Eckstein?
SJ44, its kind of funny because the angles had so much depth in catching, that they didn’t mind letting Molina go. In hindsight, Molina is exactly what their team needs, seeing as all the other catchers have struggled. Funny how baseball works sometimes.
Kind of similar to the whitesox, and their great centerfield depth. They had Borchard, Young, (damn I forget the guys name from last year), two of them busted and young is gone. Now they have nothing in center and would love Rowand back.
We don’t really need a reliever, we have Britton and Edwar in AAA.
Thanks, SJ. Interesting. As soon as any of the Molina brothers give birth to any sons, we should sign them with a hefty bonus and put them in the farm system as soon as they can walk. My lord, what’s the meaning of Molina? “Catcher”?
Figgins, Weaver, Kotchman, Saunders, and Scott Shields are or have already panned out as prospects for the Angels.
Plus, if the trade rumor that the Angels proposed for Teixeira is to be believed, Anaheim offered Saunders and Kotchman along with 2 other prospects.
This is not a “Not Wanting To Trade Prospects” package offered by the Angels as it is another Texas Rangers blunder.
i’m all for getting another reliever, but don’t they have a decision to make with farnsworth? what is he? that’s the question to me. why isn’t he the guy they got ? they should send him to spend a week with contreras and connors down in tampa. do something different . anything. and then make a decision. he’s just taking up space at this point.
He’s the 2007 version of Jay Witasick, just makes a lot more money unfortunately. Maybe in the offseason cash can do something with him, but for now he’s a one inning mop up, keep us close kind of guy
If Towers gives up Meredith, even though he is struggling this year, for Igawa, I would personally drive Kei to the airport.
If I could fly a plane, I would fly him to SD. Even without flying experience, I would be willing to fly him to SD to conclude that deal!
murph,
I think Buster’s biggest problem is, he has been ESPN-ized. These guys are on so much, they resort to acting like cartoon characters, always trying to “spice up” the debate, rather than doing what they do well, which is provide good baseball info.
Its why Baseball Tonight, especially after they fired Harold Reynolds, went from a “must watch” show, to “unwatchable”.
Buster has GREAT Yankee sources. He really does. However, there is so much pressure on guys like him to say something that stands out, they become clowns. Steve Phillips is Exhibit A of my point.
Look at Tino. They blew him out last year because he was too “bland” and wouldn’t bad mouth the Yankees.
I think Buster, and the other guys in Bristol, see that and adjust their on air behavior accordingly.
i hear gagne is available with the red sox. couldn’t resist that one. it does illustrate the problem with knowing which relievers to get. what they do somewhere else doesn’t always translate into a new environment.
There’s an idea, karkole:
In a fantasy world, the Yankees dump Giambi and his contract and get Kotchman plus some other dude (probably a prospect, but Justin Speier would be real nice). Kotchman works just fine at 1B.
Figgins, Weaver, Kotchman, Saunders, and Scott Shields are or have already panned out as prospects for the Angels.
I was talking more of recent prospects, say since 2005. Figgins and Shields came up before that. I corrected myself on weaver, but I did say Saunders and kotchman are no sure things. Both have struggled a bit at times, but could still be something. It just seems there are more miss prospects in that system than hit, but you can make that argument for a lot of teams.
Look at Tino. They blew him out last year because he was too “bland� and wouldn’t bad mouth the Yankees.
Hopefully that means Eric Young, or E-Dawg as they ridiculously call him now will be gone next year. Also see Eduardo Perez.
The one thing I learned this year from scouts while watching all the minor league prospects this summer is, you have to know which people to keep and which ones to trade.
That’s the big key. Lots of teams have great prospects these days. Some, however, are as good as they are going to be and you have to trade them when their marketability is at an all-time high.
IMO, guys like Jeff Marquez fall into that catagory.
Others, you don’t deal no matter what’s on the table.
That’s what seperates the good organizations from the bad.
For example, the Yankees hold onto kids like Wang, Cano and Chamberlain and reap the benefits.
The White Sox trade Rowand, thinking Brian Anderson is the answer, and they are now in the market for a CF.
I doubt very seriously the Angels had a Kotchmann/Saunders offer on the table for Tex. The Rangers may have wanted them but, that’s not the type of deal Bill Stoneman makes in his reign in Anaheim. Look at his track record as proof.
The Angels have a lot of prospects. But, even they miss. Remember Dallas McPherson? He was supposed to be “can’t miss”, even though he had a bad back. They held onto him too long, he blew out his back, and now is just another guy now.
What’s great about the Yankees is, they seem to have a handle on the prospects that are legit and the one’s that are good but, better served as trade bait.
What we need is not another dependable reliever in the bullpen as much as bringing in a dependable reliever which we already have (VIZ) when you are already up by 7+ runs in the 8th and 9th inning as was the case on this past Saturday night against Cleveland.
WTF ???
INEXCUSABLE.
I won’t badmouth Gagne. He’s doing exactly what all of us were hoping from him…..helping the Yankees win.
Keep using him Tito, we need his “energy”!
Correction to previous comment.
What we need is not another dependable reliever in the bullpen as much as NOT bringing in a dependable reliever which we already have (VIZ) when you are already up by 7+ runs in the 8th and 9th inning as was the case on this past Saturday night against Cleveland.
WTF ???
INEXCUSABLE.
. . .erm, Vizcaino was rusty, he hadn’t pitched since Tuesday. In all honesty, I bet Viz had asked to pitch that day.
I believe McPherson was struggling terribly before his back went out. Now maybe that struggle was all do to the back, I’m not sure. Or maybe he just wasn’t a good propsect after all and the back was the icing on the cake.
A prospect who bust because of injury is really not something I blame on a GM. We all know there is injury concern with Joba, but he’s worth the risk (now if we are offered Santana for him its a tough call for Cashman). Or say going into the way back machine, we take Brien Taylor. People call him a bust, but in reality the guy was filthy, he just did a stupid thing. So you can’t blame the yankees for drafting him.
Players like Anderson you can ride Williams for, because maybe the whitesox overvalued him. Or maybe you can ride Minaya if Pelfry continues to struggle. I mean we all remember Generation K right. Isringhausen was better in relief after he got over the injuries, but Pulshiper and Wilson were jsut over hyped.
“Andy Phillips is good for the team and brings good chemistry to the Yankees with his play in the field and clubhouse presence. Why would any sensible Yankee fan wish to throw this away and for what?”
maybe b/c you have absolutely no evidence that Phillips provides any of those things you just claimed.
all we have to go on is what he does on the field.
let’s stick to baseball arguments, not witchcraft and voodoo.
i mean, wasn’t a-rod supposed to be bad for clubhouse chemistry? that’s what everyone was saying last year. i thought abreu and cano were “lazy” and weren’t good for chemistry. i thought Clemens’ special arrangement to go home was bad for the “clubhouse chemistry”.
i thought Giambi coming back would “kill the chemistry”. or Cairo was great for chemistry.
so many inconsistencies here.
“INEXCUSABLE.”
He hadn’t pitched since Monday. Relievers need work, or they won’t be sharp when it’s important. That was the right call.
Karstens sucks. This is a bad move.
Interesting thought:
With all the flack the Yankees have received over the years (and deservedly so to an extent), for trading all their prospects for the flavor of the week power hitter or evidently mediocre starting pitcher…
What ex-Yankee farm players have ever developed into even good players?
…Milton went nowhere really
…Jimenez…utility infielder at best
…Navarro — batting .200
…Claussen – decent year last year, hurt this year
…Halsey – I think he’s in the minors..
…Wily Mo — can’t even break the Sox lineup
am I missing anyone?
Lowell has been the only solid contributor
Chemistry is funny because its important but overrated. For every example that chemistry isn’t important (’77 yankees) there is an example that it is important (’04 redsox) I think what it all comes down to is does every player on that team, whether they like each or not have one goal in mind…win. The 77 yankees did, and so did the ’04 redsox. Im sure Ortiz would have given everything to win in ’04, hell foulke gave his career. Now do I think Johnson or kevin Brown would have given anything to win again? That I’m not so sure about.
Karstens sucks. This is a bad move.
Excellent insight
@ Neil B.
I never mentioned Kotchman in any proposed trade for Giambi. In fact, I never mentioned ANY names in a trade of Giambi to the Angels.
I used the word “prospects.”
You should really stop “fantasizing” about what other people are posting here.
…
It seems the yankees gave away more organization guys then superstars. Im sure we are forgetting some good players, but the problem wasn’t clearing out the farm system, so much as not developing the farm system. I mean who ever drafted David Parrish in the first round should have been shot.
I’ll say it again
Andy Phillips OPS = .699
That’s bad no matter what way you cut it.
sj44-
the orioles in their earl weaver hey day had an amazing minor league operation. they called it” the oriole way”. do you think the yankee organization is laying the foundation for a yankee way? is the big money going mostly into blue chip players or are they also building a coaching and developmental system by investing in coaches and other personnel? i know there’s been a lot of turn over down there. what’s your take on that since you watch a lot of minor league games?
i can honestly say i haven’t paid much attention to the yankee minor league system because until recently,it wasn’t worth watching.
@ Neil B.
Using Viz in a Yankee blowout on Saturday limited any potential use of him on Sunday if his services were needed.
Mo had to get 4 outs yesterday because of this.
What, a 7+ run lead is not enough for Farnsworth ???
Does he need a 9 run lead to come in?
Oh, wait, the Yankees were leading by 9 runs, 11-2 in the bottom of the 9th on Satudary.
Kasey – You still miss the picture. Lost cause. Damon is signed for 2 more years. Giambi still has a year left.
Cashman is in the process of retooling and rebuilding and CONTENDING at the same time. Bringing up Hughes and Joba was the right move since it does all three. They are the vital cogs for the future.
The Yankees pitching is going to be a force for years to come. Offensively – it’s an aging team save for Melky and Cano. Jeter will be 34. Arod 33 next year. Posada’s not getting younger (they still need to bring him back). Abreu, Damon, Matsui, and Giambi are no spring chickens either. This year they have a legit shot as anyone… but the Dynasty was built on sustained excellence.
The point is the team’s offense needs to get better and younger or you could turn into San Francisco East. Lincecum, Cain, Lowry – all studly young pitchers… with an ancient offense that can get old overnight.
Cash needs to make the moves – to get the offense younger – if that means getting a return on Damon while you can – I’m all for it.
Giambi’s contract comes off the books after ’08… I’d try to trade Damon in the off-season, he still has value and could be a good fit somewhere. Maybe Atlanta who may have to fill the void lefty by Andruw Jones.
Ultimately I don’t think the Yankee will get a top-tier 1B. None are really available. I think Posada eventually moves there and a new backstop is groomed (Jesus Montero?)
@ Neil B.
Using Viz in a Yankee blowout on Saturday limited any potential use of him on Sunday if his services were needed.
Mo had to get 4 outs yesterday because of this.
What, a 7+ run lead is not enough for Farnsworth ???
Does he need a 9 run lead to come in?
Oh, wait, the Yankees were leading by 9 runs, 11-2 in the bottom of the 9th on Satudary.
See Karl the thing is this…Viz hasn’t pitched all week and needed to get in, so instead of wasting him for an entire inning in a blow out, he came in to get one important out. And yes it was an important out even when the score was 10-2. because say torre brings in Farns and he gives up a 3 run homer, then its 10-5 and we need to use Mo in the 9th.
Now since Viz got his work in and retired the hitter, we were able to save Mo and pitch him for two innings on sunday, in a much closer game. Also Viz was able to work on sunday as well, but came out because it was a very important game and he was struggling. Since Mo was well rested it was okay to use him in that spot for more than 3 outs.
Hope that logic helps.
I hope Juan Miranda is in the mix for 1B next season. The guy actually has power and can take a walk!(two things which Andy Phillips can’t do). I don’t know how his defense is but hopefully we’ll find out. He’s also taking up a spot on the 40 man roster, so I assume he’ll be here sooner rather than later.
I think it’s a pretty safe bet that Andy Phillips will be manning 1st base again next year. Your just wasting your time speculating.
If Andruw Jones leaves Atlanta, I can see them trading for Damon.
@karlkole: Whoa whoa whoa. I wasn’t being sarcastic about that last post. Sorry if it came across that way. I honestly liked the idea of trading Giambi, *especially* if it could bring a guy like Kotchman. The only reason I was “fantasizing” is that I honestly don’t think the Angels will trade for Giambi, or give up very much if they do decide to. I definitely wasn’t being antagonistic – my apologies.
As for Sunday. . .again, I’m honestly not trying to be inflammatory at all – but Vizcaino *did* pitch Sunday. Pitching Saturday was about keeping him fresh, since Torre had no idea whether he would be pitching again on Sunday or not. As it happened, Rivera was fresh enough to go four outs for the save, and that’s why Viz came out. . .and I sincerely believe that would have happened regardless of whether Viz had pitched the day before or not.
Not saying that Torre doesn’t mismanage the bullpen at times, but Saturday was not one of those instances.
*If they don’t find another reliable arm in the bullpen, they will have problems closing the deal, IMO.
That’s the issue we should be talking about, not Andy Phillips.*
SJ44 –
That’s what’s been running around in my head all morning. But I the feeling I’m getting here right now is the Andy Phillips thing has to run its course.
Robinson Cano: How am I not a 5 tool guy?
SportsNation Buster Olney: (12:50 PM ET ) Robinson: You can’t run.
…
“And yes it was an important out even when the score was 10-2. because say torre brings in Farns and he gives up a 3 run homer, then its 10-5 and we need to use Mo in the 9th. ”
oh, i don’t know about this. moose was at 89 pitches. he could have finished the innings. you don’t need to use mo in a 10-5 game. what if it was 6-1? do you need Mo in a 6-1 game?
you shouldn’t.
I think it is a pretty safe bet that he won’t, considering he wasn’t after last year.
Cashman is not afraid to upgrade.
If Andy Phillips is a big issue than we aren’t watching the same team.
Al–Jesus Montero will be our future first baseman. He’s 225lbs already and still has room to grow. Montero might even be our future DH.
Josh–Phillips will not be our starting 1st baseman next year. It’ll be Miranda, Betemit, or Duncan or someone via trade. Phillips is the starter right now, but not next year.
It’s not a big issue, but basically everyone else besides him is smacking the crap out of the ball.
SJ44: You wrote, “Lack of effort, which players on the team admit was an issue. Cashman obviously felt the same way since he threatened to send Cano and Melky to the minors in May if their effort didn’t pick up.”
I’m just curious — Do you have specific links or quotes where members of the team admitted this (I have some vague memory of some of it) or, more importantly to me, where Cashman said that Cano and Melky would be sent down? I don’t remember the latter and am very curious about it. (I’m not suggesting you’re wrong on this — I’m just sincerely interested.)
Also, I see Kennedy’s numbers and know that people are excited about him, but can you tell me about what kind of stuff he throws? Thanks.
@Josh: Really? You honestly think there is a 100% chance the Yankees start Andy Phillips at 1B next year? With question marks over Damon’s future (1B is a potential option) and with Duncan and Betemit on the roster? With Phillips sporting an OPS of less than 0.750? There’s NO chance the Yankees try to improve at all? Hmm.
Apparently the team isn’t playing good enough baseball for some people here.
How they can say that I’ll never know.
About 1b and DH…let philips play and giambi dh(may give him a couple of games at first)use damon as dh and as afourth outfielder so matsui can rest his knees.
About pitching,give Karstens a last chance to prove he belongs..Anyway our batting should win the games hes pitching.
PS..I love the way the Red Sox and its fans are panicking,come seasons end we`ll be enjoying another sweet post season.
Blutarsky: Just because we’re winning, doesn’t mean we can’t IMPROVE THE TEAM. Look at the mariners! They are winning, should the mariners fan base be happy with their team? Absolutely not, they have a lot of dead weight!
If we keep winning, and we improve the team, then it strengthens our chances to win a world series. Stagnating just because you’re winning now is bad business.
“And yes it was an important out even when the score was 10-2. because say torre brings in Farns and he gives up a 3 run homer, then its 10-5 and we need to use Mo in the 9th. �
oh, i don’t know about this. moose was at 89 pitches. he could have finished the innings. you don’t need to use mo in a 10-5 game. what if it was 6-1? do you need Mo in a 6-1 game?
you shouldn’t.
Your correct 5 is pushing it, but he has been used in a lot of 4 run situations. it also all depends on the situation. If its 6-1 and they look dead, then of course you don’t use Mo. If its 10-5, when it was just 10-1 an inning ago and they seem to be building momentum against your weak bullpen, I wouldn’t be shocked if they used Mo. Not saying I’d definitely use him, but I wouldn’t be shocked, especially since Mo had only pitched once all week.
And the moose argument does have legs, as I could see him staying in to finish the 8th. But all season Torre has had a somewhat short leash on moose, especially in the late innings. If he gets into trouble and his pitch count is near 100, no matter how well he was previously pitching, then he usually gets pulled.
@ hmmm
>
From the word of Yankee broadcasters/insiders like Michael Kay to interviews with other Yankee players to the fact that veterans such as Posada and A-Rod, who have their arm draped over Phillips’ shoulder after most games, I tend to believe that this is correct.
So, unless you happen to have a better inside feel to the team than people such as Kay and company as well as telling me to believe you and not my own eyes, I suggest you deal with your own inconsistencies.
Ape being A-rod’s pal does not make A-rod hit 39 hrs.
Lack of effort was why they were losing???
That is the lamest thing ever said.
The reason why they were losing was lack of pitching.
Not lack of heart.
Did they suddenly start trying in June???
Give us all a break here with the amateur psych BS.
No one quit except some of the fanbase.
Steve–Kennedy has a command of the fastball makes that pitch above average, plus curveball, plus change, slider is becoming a plus pitch (got his slider grip from Joba), and his two seamer is average at the moment. He just picked up that two seamer this year, I think. Plus command. Doesn’t throw hard. Fastball stays around 89-91. Has touched 94 a few times this year.
Hey Jerkface,
Maybe you want to see the brickwalls of Giambi and Duncan at first but I can say with certainty that the pitching staff doesn’t.
I’ve read your whole day thing on how they should cut Phillips. It’s getting really boring.
“From the word of Yankee broadcasters/insiders like Michael Kay to interviews with other Yankee players to the fact that veterans such as Posada and A-Rod, who have their arm draped over Phillips’ shoulder after most games, I tend to believe that this is correct.”
“He’s a great clubhouse guy” is an often-used excuse for keeping players who aren’t worth it on actual merit. It’s just flat out not worth having a sub-.700 OPS everyday 1B because people like him. Let him come in in the 7th to do complicated pickoff plays, fine. But having two of Jason/Johnny/Betemit in the lineup more often only helps the team, and taking ABs from Andy is the best way to do that.
Mark:
Something happened in June. I don’t know what it was with the team in April and May, but after Arod’s “HA” game, everything just seemed to start to go right.
Was it that the Yankees started trying? I don’t know–none of us can because none of us are in the clubhouse.
But something happened, and when the Yankees started to solve nearly everything within, and the few trades they did make become successes, it amplifies the Yankees even more.
I have a feeling that if they’d played April and May like June, July and (so far) August, we’d be talking about the ghosts of 98 instead of 78.
I mean, if we finished this half at 60-20 like we did the first half at 98, it wouldn’t surprise me too much. Even if I am the perpetual optimist.
Neil B,
No I honestly can’t see a different 1st basemen. The job most likely would have been split coming out of training camp between Doug and Andy, had it not been for Andy’s personal issues. The bottom line, he plays great defense, granted he won’t hit 25 home runs but he could probaly hit 15 and bat somewhere between .260 and .300. I don’t know about you but thats good enough with our line-up.
“If it ain’t broke, dont fix it” Next Year Andy will be the 1st baseman along with Betemit getting some time there as well.
Question: How many times does a first baseman actually throw(and I don’t mean toss the ball to the pitcher covering first) the ball in a game? Maybe once or twice. Giambi was actually good at picking throws and getting balls. I think Damon would also be good at that given that he played CF. A sub .700 OPS from any player on your team is terrible, especially your first baseman.
the yankee heart factor thru the months
april .128
may .114
june .275
july .307
august .389
It is going up! We have more heart now, the stats prove it
the yankee heart factor thru the months
april .128
may .114
june .275
july .307
august .389
It is going up! We have more heart now, the stats prove it
E-ROC, thanks for the info on Kennedy. So given that his fastball is only 89-910ish, how much of a sure-fire prospect do you think he is? Are his curve and change really outstanding, and that’s why he’s been so effective?
“I think it’s a pretty safe bet that Andy Phillips will be manning 1st base again next year. Your just wasting your time speculating.”
i guarantee you he won’t.
“but he could probaly hit 15 and bat somewhere between .260 and .300. I don’t know about you but thats good enough with our line-up.”
What is this assertion based on? His anemic slugging percentage so far? He can’t hit flyballs past the warning track, and he doesn’t hit liners into the gap. He’s 30, so he’s not going to develop anymore…Cano, for instance, is likely to get stronger and so more of his line drives will leave the park. Andy…he is what he is. And that’s mostly a singles hitter that doesn’t walk much. He plays good defense at a position where defense isn’t that important. Not even great defense. Good defense.
The odds are good that he’s what we see right now…a hitter with a .330ish OBP and a SLG that tops out near .400. That’s bad. Just bad. If you’re Ozzie Smith at SS, it’s maybe worth it. I was on the other side of this argument early in the season, then the team went through that huge offensive slump. A normal 1B would have won us some of those games with his bat. I promise you that Dougie M didn’t save us any of those games with his glove. You can’t say “it’s fine, because our 36 year old catcher will continue to hit like a batting champ and our 2B will continue to hit like Ted Williams,” that’s just nuts.
*If they don’t find another reliable arm in the bullpen, they will have problems closing the deal, IMO.
That’s the issue we should be talking about, not Andy Phillips.*
the reason we are talking about Phillips is because Pete made a post about him.
It’s about arms. Not about Phillips.
Obviously, a Texeira would be great at first but get your heads out of your butts.
It ain’t happening this season.
BLutkarsky: Really? You’ve read everything I’ve posted? Well then smart guy where in did I say anything about Giambi playing 1st?
Betemit should be playing first.
Duncan and Giambi should be platooning DH, with Duncan getting in vs lefties that Giambi is poor against.
Enough with Karstens already. He will fool people with a nice start. The Yanks got 45 games left and can’t possibly win every one.
Get over it. Things could be worse. You could be doing a 15-20 year jolt in Attica.
I think Phillips will be just fine if he stops swinging for the fences and gets back to hitting line drives.
Can anyone say warning track power?
can we try looking at this a little differently? everyone talks about how phillips doesn’t have the power of a typical first baseman. that is a fact, and no one has disagreed. instead of looking at power per position, look at the offensive lineup. try to forget what position the leadoff guy plays, or the cleanup hitter. how do we compare up and down the offensive lineup, i.e. 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 rather than how our offense compares 1b-1b, 2b-2b, c-c, etc. different teams are constructed differently, so trying to mash every player into the same stats doesn’t always work. stats are useful, but not the end all be all. granted, some sabre-magician’s will disagree, but so be it.
my own opinion is that the lineup is pretty darn good, and why mess with what’s working? players tend to be very superstitious, so why mess with what’s working? if things start not going so well, we’ve got some options on the bench, but until that point, why mess with a lineup that’s winning at a .700+ clip?
Also that scouting report on Kennedy is a little off, he should be sitting 91-93 now. Touching 94. He was at 88-91 before he came to our system but has since regained the velocity.
agreed. leave andy phillips in there. let’s not forget how much defense is amplified in the playoffs.
Hmmm,
And who do you think the 1st baseman will be next season?
Betemit, Miranda, Damon, or Free Agent.
Phillips playing good defense at 1st and making good plays off of bad throws are just one of the reasons why guys like A-Rod and Jeter love him.
Ask yourself, Josh Phelps had more proven MLB power and yet he was waived so that Phillips could take up 1st base. The Yankees have been winning ever since while their defense has been more than solid with him at 1st.
Only stats-obsessed fantasy-league fans have the nerve to say that that the Yankees need more offense at first base with the way that the Yankees are hitting the baseball right now.
When was the last time you ever heard of a baseball fantasy league where defense was a factor?
Question: How many times does a first baseman actually throw(and I don’t mean toss the ball to the pitcher covering first) the ball in a game? Maybe once or twice. Giambi was actually good at picking throws and getting balls. I think Damon would also be good at that given that he played CF. A sub .700 OPS from any player on your team is terrible, especially your first baseman.
Funny how the throwing issue is so rare, yet it happened to come up in a crucial spot in game 4 of the ALDS last year. Sure hurt a lot then.
No way do we pull Philips while he’s still hitting at or above average for a middle-infielder. Didn’t we do the same exact thing last year to less than stellar results?
Correction: Last year we tried to shoehorn in a Hall of Fame caliber bat. This year we want to upset the applecart for W. Betemit and his career .264/.338.
Philips stays until the bottom falls out. Giambi, Duncan and Damon fight over DH atbats.
Bruney’s CHair: Stats are useful, so are players that are good. Andy Phillips does nothing in the lineup that affects how anyone else hits, except for maybe giving Cano walks in the 7 hole because pitchers are pitching around him to get to Ape.
We are starting a player every day that has an OPS below 700! That is bad. There is no way to spin that positively. Replacing him with anyone else with a higher OPS will likely give us more offensive output, and if its an ATHLETE like Wilson Betemit, most likely you’ll get the same defensive output.
jerkface, this is probably a pointless question, because everyone knows how it turned out, but would you replace andy with sheff, were he healthy and still on the team? your arguments all seem to support such a move.
I like the Posada to first idea…eventually.
I think Posada is really at his catching peak right now, with what he has learned from Pena. His game calling, and Caught stealing numbers have been getting pretty good the last few years.
4 year deal? — 1.5/2 more at catcher, 2 at first/DH — he’s a switch hitter which is nice and you gotta think he’s going to ask for a 4 year deal.
I’m not arguing whether or not phillips should still be starting, I said I’d like him to find his stroke but I can definitely see the argument for Betemit, but in fairness to him I just wanted to drop these OPS’s for people:
1999–> .721
2000–> .673
2001–> .789
they belonged to a player who was in an offensive position but played great defense, his name was Scott Brosius.
Now it might not be fair to show these because Brosius was a better fielder than Phillips, and brosius had more pop, but if your going by just OPS, then its not totally fair to say Phillips shouldn’t be playing. Because if you did that then you can say Brosius shouldn’t have been playing.
The lineup as is, even with Phillips, is obviously fantastic. They are mashing at an unparralled rate. However, I don’t think anyone here thinks the Yansk will continue to put a +900 OPS as a team for the rest of the season. There will come a point when offensive production at first base is necessary. That is why somebody like Betemit or Duncan should be manning the bag, with Phillips as a defensive replacement.
Karkol: Phillips playing good defense at 1st and making good plays off of bad throws are just one of the reasons why guys like A-Rod and Jeter love him.
Is that why he has been pulled off the bag/messed up a stretch/missed a scoop 3 times in the past week? Yea I’m sure A-rod appreciates that.
Randy:No way do we pull Philips while he’s still hitting at or above average for a middle-infielder. Didn’t we do the same exact thing last year to less than stellar results?
He is hitting 12% below average. He is not hitting at or above any kind of average. He is below average for a 2B, he is way below for a 1b, he is probably still below for catcher. Maybe he would be a servicable backup catcher.
Josh Phelps was not played by Joe Torre, and Cashman had no choice but to DFA him. Remember that Joe Torre runs a boys club.
“Correction: Last year we tried to shoehorn in a Hall of Fame caliber bat. This year we want to upset the applecart for W. Betemit and his career .264/.338.”
You convienently left off his SLG. Which is .442, which means that betemit, as a 25 year old has a career OPS of .780
He gets on base more than Phillips, while slugging better. He is a better player. BETTER IN EVERY WAY.
I think Brosius should play 1B.
Jerkface,
right on the money. Phillips has a OPS+ of 88, meaning in terms of OPS, he is 12% worse than the average first baseman.
Bruney’s Chair: If you gave me the choice between Sheff at first this year and Andy I would take Sheff every time. However, I was very much in favor of trading Sheffield, so the correct question to ask me is: If you could replace Andy Phillips with a better player, would you do? The answer is yes. That is what I am advocating. Replace andy phillips with better, available players.
i don’t think anyone can reasonably predict what this team may or may not do. this is one of those quirky years, where there always seems to be a surprise waiting around the corner. anyone guaranteeing anything is not being objective. who knows what will or won’t happen. could phillips be our starter next year? yeah, it’s possible. now, how likely that is is up to debate, but to pretend to know a future outcome with any certainty is just plain ignorant.
I knew the future when Cashman said that he was “perfectly comfortable with Bubba Crosby in CF going forward.”
We all know how that ended. AAA players that don’t show skill don’t start the next year on the Yankees.
Andy Phillips also isn’t some wonder with the glove like most people here would have you believe. According to zone ratings(the most advanced defensive metric) Phillips would be behind the following starting first baseman- Kotchman, Helton, Pujols, Casey, Laroche,Youkillis, Morneau, OVerbay, GOnzalez, Delgado and Lee.
“right on the money. Phillips has a OPS+ of 88, meaning in terms of OPS, he is 12% worse than the average first baseman.”
100 is average for all positions. for 1B it is probably much higher than 100.
Anyone who thinks its OK to give up offense at a position like first base because you have more offense than average at other positions is a moron. You’re giving away part of the advantage of having a second baseman like Cano or a shortstop like Jeter by playing a powerless bum like AAAAndy Phillips everyday at first. I’m not sure we can fix this problem this year, but to simply accept it is just dumb.
hmmm,
good point, just shows how poor Phillip’s offense is.
“According to zone ratings(the most advanced defensive metric) Phillips would be behind the following starting first baseman”
i actually don’t like ZR for 1Bman. it only counts batted balls as plays in your zone.
it does not include “thrown” balls, which are also the 1Bman’s job to field.
so, it does not measure scooping ability or handling bad throws.
to my eyes, Phillips *IS* a good defensive 1Bman. he just can’t hit very well.
Also people are missing the point about Brosius, the reason the Yankees could have a not very good player(offensively) like him and still win the World Series was because the Yankees had some of the most dominant starting pitchers and b ullpen in the major leagues.
Those Yankees teams were almost always near the top of the league in strike outs, and almost all the starters posted above average ERA+ at 180+ Ip
When you have a catcher and a 2nd baseman, and 3rd baseman who are slugging way over the rest of the league, the Yankees are more than comfortable with Phillips playing 1st base.
>
Are you kidding, whozat?
The first baseman touches the ball more times in a game than anyone except the pitcher and the catcher.
Funny how quickly people forget about Mo Vaugn and his stint on the Mets. Mets fans surely have not.
Uhm… Kotchman is slick, Helton is slick, Sean Casey is very good defensively, Youkilis had a real long error-less streak, Overbay is one of the best in the League and so is Lee.
The only suspect one on there is Delgado really…
Gold Gloves:
2006 – Pujols
2005,2003 – D. Lee
2004,2002,2001 – Todd Helton
I was unaware of that.
Everyone else is making jaded points when it comes to Phillips, so I am going to throw this out there… please take with a grain of salt:
Phillips stays in the lineup because he is CUTE. I mean, a real dreamboat.
There you have it, folks!!!
If I understand correctly sOPS+ correclty, it’s a player’s OPS+ compared to other ML players’ OPS at that particular split (be it by position, inning, batting order spot, whatever). Phillips’ sOPS+ as a first baseman is 77, meaning that he’s a 23% worse hitter by OPS than a ML average first baseman.
His defense would have to be stupendous to even consider standing pat at his position. It isn’t.
Interestingly, Phillips’ tOPS+, which is his OPS+ compared to the Yankees’ team OPS+ at 1B, is 103. This just goes to show how awful the Yankees’ first basemen have been this season.
jerkface,
why would i ask if you’d replace him with a better player?
would you replace a-rod, jeter, mo, posada, or anyone with a better player? yes.
you have given offensive stats for bet, then use purely offensive stats to call him ‘better in every way.’ you’re forgetting defense.
i would make the argument that a run saved is greater than a run scored. it has a trickle down effect. by getting an out, your pitcher doesn’t have to pitch as many pitches in that inning, which means your bullpen gets used less, which will affect not just the current game, but the next, and the next, and the next…
defensive metrics will always be off. they can’t account for a bad hop, sun in the eyes, for a player sliding in with cleats up, for the decision for a 1b to try for the double play, or stay with the force at 1st, or a host of other decisions that materially affect the game.
Jerkface is right on.
Giambi should be playing 1b everyday.
Let’s see what happens then.
Every lineup should have every position with an OPS of 1.000.
Forget defense or winning or anything else.
Didn’t they try that last yr???
Worked out really well
When did Andy Phillips become Nieves at the plate???
Imagine if they only took 2 out of 3 vs Cleveland????
Let’s throw Mattingly out there..he’s still probably better than Andy
Bruney: Betemit is a quality defender who plays the harder infield positions. He is a better SS than Jeter, and is adequate at 3B and good at 2B. He will easily be able to handle 1st. If you think he can’t then why do you think Andy can handle 1st when he is a converted middle infielder?
Betemit is also taller, and will have better reach for stretches, which has been Andy’s weakness the past week.
Also note that I said better AVAILABLE players. You can’t find a better player than Jeter at SS that is easily available.
We have a player on our team, RIGHT NOW, that is better than Ape.
What happend to those vaunted pitching matchups before the Cle series?
Wasn’t Cle supposed to take all 3 games because of pitching matchups????
Why are there so many straw man arguments used to support playing Phillips? The way I see it, the best argument in favor of sticking with Phillips is that Betemit can’t play first or is needed on the bench. I’d be interested to see people support points like those, rather than generic “we don’t need an AS at every position,” “if it ain’t broke,” “Phillips is a glove wizard, stats are for nerds” non-starters.
Jerkface is totally right.
Betemit has one inch on Andy so he def makes a better 1b.
Wow.
Betemit is also a better SS than Jeter.
Double WOW.
The stupidity here is endless.
Jerkface
August 13th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
Bruney: Betemit is a quality defender who plays the harder infield positions. He is a better SS than Jeter
Just shut up now Jerkface. Just shut up. Better yet stop hitting the crack pipe.
Betemit is 6’2, Ape is 6’0. Also Jeter is not a good SS, and costs the team 35 runs in the field each year. Betemit last I checked was -10 at SS.
Uninformed, blind yankee fans need not respond.
hmmmmm,
I have a question about WARP. Is it possible to find 2007 WARP values now(I guess you’d have to subscribe to BP), or do they have to wait until the end of the season to publish those values?
Jeremy:
Here’s the defense.
Whats their record since Andy started playing everyday?
That’s pretty much it.
Ask the pitching staff who they want.
Ask the infielders who they want.
Next thing you know Jerkface is going to want to sit AS-Rod because he’s only hitting .255 since the all star break.
Greg,
correlation does not equal causation!
If Betemit is such a good defensive SS why wasn’t he playing SS for LA??
Jeter costs the team 35 runs at SS every yr?
Way to just throw numbers out at people like they mean something.
The trolls are out today. They do make the day go by.
Jerkface, i would have no problem with betemit as 1b with phillips as utility, but i’d like to wait on that potential move until the team comes back to earth, if that happens. i just don’t really like messing with something that’s working (i don’t think adding giambi as a dh/ph really affects chemistry as much, because he’s not in the field)
also, does anyone have stats of phillips ops+ compared to other 8/9 hitters, instead of 1b’s? to clarify, i don’t mean taking his 88 and comparing that across, i mean how he’s performing at the plate relative to other 8/9 hitters, regardless of position.
Matty H –
**The stupidity here is endless.**
Unfortunately, it is not.
It’s really not all that difficult to be a better defensive SS than Jeter. As of July 17th, he was rated as the 7th worst fielder in baseball by UZR (the king of fielding metrics).
“Phillips stays in the lineup because he is CUTE. I mean, a real dreamboat.
There you have it, folks!!!”
sometimes i think this is really 90% of his appeal with yankee fans.
if he looked like Wilson Betemit would we be having this argument?
Jonah: You’re retarded. First of all, batting average is a terrible stat. Look at my posts and realize your folly in trying to use that as an argument. Second of all, look at A-rod’s line post ASB:
.255 .397 .557
Ape wishes he were that good. Arod outslugs Ape by almost .200 points while hitting 30 points less. And gets on base 60 points higher as well.
NEXT.
it does in this case. The team suddenly got better when Phillips was out there. Coincidence??
Maybe you like the terrible D at first from the likes of Phelps
But I’m sure the other fielders and more importantly the pitchers didn’t
So we let Betemit, who could be an above-average defender at 1st (and let’s be honest, that’s exactly what Phillips is) rot on the bench? We don’t give Shelley a chance to prove himself? And we throw Andy “Replacement Level” Phillips out there everyday?
I sure as hell hope that Cano continues to murder this league, because Andy Phillips does not have the power or patience to play 1st everyday.
Just because everything seems to be going good doesn’t mean that you should go with inferior options. It is not the defense that is winning games. It is the offense. You don’t weaken the offense by sticking Phillips in there.
Phillips was an upgrade over Miguel Cairo. He’s not an upgrade over anything else the Yankees have. I’m not talking Giambi, I’m talking Betemit and Shelley.
The team suddenly got better because they started mashing like the ’27 Yanks. Andy Phillips has nothing to do with it.
The team suddenly got better because Cano, Matsui, Melky, and Abreu caught fire. Not because Ape’s dreamy good looks revitalized the team.
“hmmmmm,
I have a question about WARP. Is it possible to find 2007 WARP values now(I guess you’d have to subscribe to BP), or do they have to wait until the end of the season to publish those values?”
yes. go to B-Pro, and search on a player’s name. then click on their “DT Card”
you will see that AP’s WARP1 for 2007 is 0.0
I’m retarded because you’re an idiot???
Thanks, Jerkface, for the enlightening retort.
You always know how to zing ‘em!
I think Jerkface is going to want to bench Mariano because his WHIP was over 1 yesterday
Don’t do it, Jerkface!
Imagine what morons like Jerkface would be saying if the team was LOSING?
Probably joining the chorus of the people from May who wanted everyone gone.
hmmm,
thanks
Jerkface, i am with you on the Phillips argument, but Betemit is not a better SS than Jeter.
and i am not someone who is in denial about Jeter’s defense.
i just don’t think Betemit is a good SS. he is an average 3Bman. which should mean a slightly above average 1Bman.
but he is not a good SS.
I guess defense and pitching have nothing to do with wins now.
Sigh.
I’d be a lot more worried about the bullpen and the arms than if Phillips hits over 300
Get a grip.
Actually I was always cautiously optimistic, because if you looked at the stats you’d see that key players were vastly underperforming their PECOTA projections.
Unfortunately, my defenses are airtight and none of you will be able to rationally argue against anything I’m saying.
Jonah: You’re retarded because you don’t understand any of my arguments. And way to completely ignore my rebut about A-rod.
I have a sense that the people advocating for Betemit at 1b are the same ones who wanted Phelps at 1b in April.
If Phillips WARP is 0, I think it kind of ends the argument that he’s any good or that his defense wins games for the Yanks.
I’m still a retard Jerkface???
That hurts my feelings coming from such a class act like yourself!
You still want to bench A-Rod for Betemit? Betemit has a longer wingspan and can chug 2 more beers an hour than A-Rod.
Not to mention A-Rod has hit only .255 since the break.
You dope.
So I keep sporadically checking this blog today to see if it’s been announced that this Karstens nonsense is a red herring and Kennedy is starting….so far, nothing. :\
I don’t have time to read all the comments, so I’m not sure if what I’m about to say has been addressed already. If it has, sorry. But here is my thinking on this matter:
We’ve been hearing Kennedy’s name bandied about a lot as the possible starter. This can’t all be coming from NOWHERE. The fact that it was subject to whether or not Karstens was needed this weekend is one plausible explanation, but another one is this:
We all know that SD claimed Igawa off waivers. (!!) Perhaps the question of whether or not Kennedy will start is subject to whether or not a trade gets completed before tomorrow? Because if they could trade Igawa (pleasepleasepleeease!) they could just insert Kennedy into his spot on the 40-man, no? Then they wouldn’t have to option Karstens down and thus wouldn’t have to worry about being without a long reliever for 10 days. Although if they called up Edwar, Henn or Britton, Villone could serve as the emergency long reliever…
But I digress. If a possible Igawa trade plays a big part in the probability of Kennedy starting, then is it really any wonder Cash is being cagey and insisting that Karstens will start? He’s always cagey in any matter involving trades or transactions. As I think I did see someone point out above, remember that he INSISTED Bubba Crosby would be the starting CF going into 2006. But, cmon, do you think he ever planned for a second to start Bubba?
Anyway, I really hope my line of logic pans out with Kennedy. D. Cabrera is an easy pitcher in comparison to the matchups we have sandwiched around his start day. Why would they counter the easiest pitcher we’ll face with Jeff Karstens? Why not give us a MUCH better chance to win with Kennedy? Or why not hold Wang till Tuesday (the day he would have gone anyway barring Clemens’ suspension) and throw Karstens today so we have a big edge in one of the 2 matchups? I’ll tell you why not… because they’re starting Kennedy Tuesday!
Let’s hope so, anyway!!!
Quiet please everyone.
Jerkface has to pray to Moneyball at 3pm.
Meatload: The team should always get better. Andy Phillips is about 20% better than Miguel Cairo, so when Miguel Cairo was the starting 1B then Ape was the guy to go to.
Betemit and Duncan were not on the team at the time.
Now that we have Bet and Duncan, and both of them are x% better than Ape, they should be the next to be bumped up to either a platoon or starting.
Has anyone seen a better handle and nickname here than ‘Jerkface’?
It really does say it all.
the yankees get better because Shelley Duncan told them to get better. End of argument
LOL, the Phillips argument goes on….
For some people they have always have to find something wrong.
Sorry, people but no team is perfect. You have to make sacrifices and deal with it.
We’re not going to have an all star 1b this yr. Woooo is us.
I think Jessica Alba should play 1B.
Jonah: Yes you are still retarded, you are also a pretty weak troll.
Mike Westchester: Did you even read Moneyball? If you did you’d understand that Billy Beane’s style of management is the way to win ballgames, and the Yankees/Red Sox/Indians are all moneyball-esque teams. If Billy Beane had Steinbrenners budget baseball would be ruined because he’d be unstoppable.
i don’t think Igawa will be traded b/c any player that SD would want to send over would also have to pass through waivers.
so if it’s a good player, they would get claimed by someone.
unless Cashman is willing to accept a PTBNL, which he may be, Igawa probably won’t get traded since they can’t get anything that would actually help the team in 2007.
Greg,
There are lots of reasons why the Yankees have been winning so many games recently. Phillips isn’t in the top 10.
WOW, 400 comments? I can’t believe how popular this blog is LOL Well I can believe it, but you know what I mean.
Well put Kelly.
the yankees are not moneyball esque…u clearly didnt read the book
All I want is a first baseman who can hit for power and take a walk once in awhile…I could care less if he’s an allstar.
Jerkface hasn’t said anything wrong other than Betemit being a better SS than Jeter (and Jeter is definitely in the bottom tier for SS fielding). Not really sure why you’re all attacking the guy.
Jerkface, you are such a class act. No wonder you have such great points. Calling people names. I wonder if your mommy spanked you yet today???
Moron.
Kelly: Nothing has to be perfect, but look at it this way. You have a car, and the window doesn’t roll up all the way, but the car runs fine. You have a spare window RIGHT THERE IN THE BACK SEAT.
Do you fix the window? Or do you not want to disturb your car’s chi since its running so well?
How many titles does Billy Beane have???
hmmmmm
None??
Really??
None?
“We’re not going to have an all star 1b this yr. Woooo is us.”
man, this is getting old.
where are people advocating for an “all star 1Bman”? the trade deadline has passed. everyone knows this.
no one is arguing for anything more than playing superior players that are ALREADY on our bench.
Betemit a better fielder than Jeter??
For all those games hes played at SS this yr right?
Mike: Yankees targetted high OBP / grinder types when they were undervalued, and routinely made shrewd trades to help win championships. The basis of moneyball is to look at market inefficiencies and exploit them, which Cashman does to great effect thanks to his large budget.
Look at the draft. Cash targets high risk / low prob signing players because he can throw above slot bonus at them.
Moneyball doesn’t mean ‘have a payroll under 30′, thats just what Beane has to work with.
Next.
For OPS/offense-minded fans…
We’ve been using your philosophy for the last 5 years…
Did it net the Yankees #27 ???
How many times has our defense failed us the last 5 years in the post-season?
Remember the over-weighted offense that Tampa Bay used in the late 1990s-early 2000s?
Did Canseco and company keep the Rays out of the cellar?
Balance is needed on a team, something not found on any fantasy league baseball team nor are any real games played on any.
We went thru this same thing last season.
You just can’t throw anyone out at 1b.
Or did you forget the lessons of Sheffield???
Peter is wrong again. Betemit is really the guy who should get the bulk of the at bats at first. Especially with a right on the mound. Phillips did mess up an earlier pick off play, so its not like he’s perfect.
Karstens is a bad pitcher and Brower shouldn’t be here either. The smart move would be to dfa Brower and start Kennedy. Then send Kennedy down and bring up Ramirez. Karstens should be sent down to bring up Britton. Villone can pitch long relief.
to put down billy beane because he doesnt have a world series ring is like stating that Luis Sujo is the best 2b because he has 4 world series ring. What beane has done with the A’s is nothing short of a miracle.
Jeter has won 3 gold gloves…but you’re right he costs the yankees 35 runs a year…
I DON’T THINK SO.
He clearly has issues with the ball to his glove side, but he is very solid turning the double play, the tough short hop, the play in the backhand hole, and the pop-up to shallow OF.
Ya, he doesn’t make the diving play up the middle very often, but he makes so many more extremely difficult plays look easy.
The people that worship stats are the same people that don’t know what it takes to win a title.
Defense and pitching.
Timely hitting.
Good baseball. No extra outs.
“For OPS/offense-minded fans…
We’ve been using your philosophy for the last 5 years…
Did it net the Yankees #27 ???”
We’ve made the playoffs every one of those years. You can’t ask for more than that.
And the strategy worked out pretty well for Boston in 2004.
Beane had the best starting staff in baseball.
Not winning 90 games with that would have been ridiculous.
Why do people say “I could care less” when that actually makes no sense?
…
Look at UZR, Jeter costs runs. Surprisingly, when he won his gold gloves he actually managed to not cost us 30 runs in the field, but he was still not anywhere near the best fielding SS in the league.
Read Baseball Between the Numbers. WAtch any game. Watch any wang start. Jeter has ZERO range to his left. And the range to his right isn’t that great, thus causing him to have to do his jump spin throw when other better short stops would be planting and throwing.
Jeters + points on defense:
Strong arm
Great fly ball instincts
Good at charging
- points:
Lack of range
Poor first step
The 2 minus points are such a big part of short stop that it overweighs all his positives.
Good lord you guys need to read some literature. Check out Baseball Between the Numbers.
People like Adam forget that great pitching usually wins. Not OBP or OPS or whatever stat geek thing they throw out there.
hmmm,
“i don’t think Igawa will be traded b/c any player that SD would want to send over would also have to pass through waivers.”
What if they trade minor league prospects to us for him? That’s what I would have expected anyhow; I mean since they don’t know that Igawa could help them this year (or ever, but let’s hope they’re not thinking that way, haha) then I would doubt they’d surrender someone in return who could help us this year.
What do you think are the chances of Cash accepting a PTBNL? I really hope he does, but to be honest I’m a little nervous he will let puffed-chest pride get in the way of making the right decision here b/c Igawa was “his investment.” Let’s hope he is willing to swallow his pride…guy is really useless, and he will never get better IMO, so just give up now, especially if it will help Kennedy get the ball tomorrow!
Look at UZR????
How about look at getting a life?
Watch a game and comapre SS’s before you throw defensive stats out at us.
No self respecting GM or scout looks at def stats.
“Beane had the best starting staff in baseball.
Not winning 90 games with that would have been ridiculous.”
And he’s gotten rid of all three of them and the team has still been fairly competitive despite an extremely small payroll.
Randy: Thats so funny, because Billy Beane turned oakland into a defensive powerhouse once Defense started to be undervalued.
Also I don’t understand this assumption that people who believe in stats don’t believe in baseball. Of course pitching helps win championships, but more than that GOOD pitching wins championships which means low K/9, low BB/9, low HR/9. Oh nooo stats, look out! Now pitching is tainted!!
(you also missed the part where I specifically referred to the starting staff and bullpen of the dynasty yankees as being the key factor).
karlkole, the Devil Rays have always had a more glaring problem than defense – a total absence of quality pitching.
What does “balance” mean? Intentionally including below-average players on a team to balance out the above-average players?
It’s as if we’re debating replacing Phillips with a $15 million FA pickup. Most people here are suggesting that we use Betemit, who we acquired by trading Scott freaking Proctor. I think he would hit better than Phillips and play roughly similar defense. That’s about all there is to it. It’s a lot simpler than the metaphysical concerns of chemistry and balance.
Beane also drafted those pitchers. He also knew when to get rid of them.
You really don’t need UZR to know that Jeter is a bad defensive SS. You just need to watch a few games and count the number of times Kay says “past a diving Jeter”.
We’d all love to have a 1b like Tex right now.
But when you have to give up a Joba or Melky to get it done???
Come on. You can survive with a decent 1b.
You have to make sacrifices. You cannot have an all star at every position.
Yankee fans should know this by now.
Having a good defensive team is key. We got that right now.
Martin: I assure I watch more baseball than you, and thus am qualified to comment on the state of our short stop. Which is to say that Jeter is below average any way you look at it.
In fact, it hurts to watch other teams play baseball because all you see are shortstops making plays to the left over and over and over again.
I’m surprised Cano doesn’t shade to his right more because he has some great range.
put down the bong jerkface
I cannot listen or take seriously people that name call and call people retards because they don’t agree with their points.
This isn’t 3rd grade.
Have some respect or take it somewhere else.
Bloomy: ARGH. THATS. NOT. THE. POINT.
We don’t want Tex. We want Bet!
“People like Adam forget that great pitching usually wins. Not OBP or OPS or whatever stat geek thing they throw out there.”
OBP is not a stat geek thing. It’s a common sense thing. And I’m not really sure what great pitching has to do with putting an inferior hitter at first base.
It’s obvious that Adam, migames, and Jerkface are the same guy.
Pretty lame, fella.
If our team had an OBP% of 1.000, we would never lose a game. FACT.
betemit is such a great defensive 1b that he has never played 1b before being traded to the Yanks.
Are you mental?
Again you are the same people that say hes better than Jeter at SS.
Does that make everyone else the collective gestalt mind of idiot baseball fans everywhere?
I thought there was something fishy about them
Maybe it’s Billy Beane. He has free time now that the A’s are done.
“What if they trade minor league prospects to us for him? That’s what I would have expected anyhow; I mean since they don’t know that Igawa could help them this year (or ever, but let’s hope they’re not thinking that way, haha) then I would doubt they’d surrender someone in return who could help us this year. ”
yes, that could happen.
i am just saying don’t hold your breath for a player that will help the team THIS season.
Bloomy: Andy Phillips was a second baseman and a third baseman before moving to 1st. What say you?
1st is the easiest position to play on the field, and Betemit is an above average 2b, and adequate 3b. I am recanting my opinion on him at SS because he only has 59 games there, but I reckon he would still have more range to the left than Jeter, and his UZR RS/150 is still going to be less than Jeters.
The only mental cases here are those that want to blindly stick with Ape.
Also I am in no way affiliated with any of those other guys, you can even ask P-ABE. Check the IPs, etc. Great minds tend to think alike though.
“The Rick
August 13th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
It’s obvious that Adam, migames, and Jerkface are the same guy.
Pretty lame, fella.”
what? how this happen?
Steve -
Thank you, thank you, thank you. The phrase is “I could NOT care less.” Because you care so little you literally can’t care any less. Not, I could care less, because that implies you DO care, when you’re really trying to say you DON’T care. (A pet peeve of mine, along with pronouncing the “t” in “often.”)
I know this is not important or pertinent to today’s topic, but I think everything that can possibly be said has been said a zillion times already and no one is going to change their minds, and the name-calling has begun, so the discussion goes downhill from there.
Is Andy Phillips the perfect 1B? No. But neither are Betemit or Duncan for that matter. And those are your choices, because Giambi will DH. Betemit and Duncan have more pop and I suspect that is all the argument really boils down to. Duncan will not hit .300 playing every day and both Betemit and Duncan are a defensive downgrade to Phillips (which is not the same as saying that Andy is the best fielding 1B in the league, just the best one on the Yankees).
Where is Peter to change the topic????????
Baseball Between the Numbers..
How about Baseball in general where Jeter is one of the most respected players in the league, and considered an elite shortstop for the best team…
He may be ‘overrated’ defensively, and certainly has his range issues, and A-Rod would probably be a better defensive shortstop range wise… But you NEVER replace Jeter unless you absolutely have to. He has been the heart and soul of the team for 11 years, I don’t care how many balls up the middle get by..because when the runner is on 2nd base with two outs in the 9th — Jeter is going to make up for that run 90% of the time.
He is an elite shortstop based solely on his offense, because SS is a historically weak offensive position. His reputation has nothing to do with his fielding ability.
Fielding has nothing to do with aura, presence, clutch, mystique, or anything. Jeter is a great baseball player. I would want him on my team any day of the week. And no one here is calling to replace Jeter.
Randy,
That’s a good way of looking at it. The Yankees have spent a ton of money the last several years on the farm system. Not only is signing guys over the slot (they have several more over the slot signings for this year’s draft that will be announced shortly) but, in coaches and instructors.
As far as the “Yankee Way”, there definitely is a “way” they are teaching.
I spent a lot of time on the backfields during the spring and they are really persistent in teaching certain principles of the game to the younger guys. They don’t take any garbage. You do it their way or you are gone. They shuffled some kids from the Gulf Coast League to the Dominican Summer League for failing to listen to direction.
It hasn’t just been lip service from Cashman. He’s put money behind it too.
Nardi Contreras and Gil Patterson don’t come cheap and they are just the roving instructors. Not counting the managers and coaches in their employ.
Billy Masse was a longtime manager in the Yankees farm system. He managed Trenton last year. He was in disagreement with the “shackles” (as he put it) placed on Hughes. He ended up getting fired and they went outside the organization (Tony Franklin) for his replacement.
I think that shook up everyone and got their attention that they are doing business differently in the system from here on out.
The great thing is, they are just scratching the surface on their talent right now. There is so much talent in the system now, its scary.
On the pitching side, its not just Kennedy and Horne. Daniel McCutcheon is making big noise in Trenton. Kevin Whelan has turned his season around. Todd Wellenmeyer has been a dominant closer in Tampa. Zach McAllister is doing very well in Staten Island. David Robertson (Tampa) may be the most underpublized, big time arm in the system. He is going to be knocking on the door for a bullpen role with the Yankees, at some point in 2008, IMO. Dellin Betances was nicked up but, he is improving. They have the luxury of going slow with him because they have so much pitching talent in the system right now. He may have more upside than anybody, even Chamberlain, in the organization.
When Humberto Sanchez, Mark Melancon (who is NASTY), JB Cox and Christian Garcia come back from injuries next year, you add them to the mix. Nobody in baseball has the depth of pitching talent in the minor leagues the Yankees currently possess.
We are now seeing the position players beginning to make their move. Colin Curtis is already in AA, a year after being drafted. Juan Miranda has gotten his game back after not playing for two years, while being punished by the Cuban Government, prior to his defection. Austin Jackson and Jose Tabata have had excellent years in Tampa. Brett Gardner is already at AAA and could end up being a 4th OF on the Yankees next year. Even a kid like Justin Snyder, a 2008 draftee, is opening a lot of eyes in Staten Island. he has “super utility guy” written all over him.
Obviously, not all of these guys are going to be all stars and not all of them will be Yankees. But, many of them will either break through and make it in NY or can be packaged for trades for more established players. In the next 2-3 years, you are going to see a lot of kids currently in the system on major league rosters.
The bottom line is, they are finally using their financial muscle the right way. They are investing in player development with the same aggressiveness they have invested in free agency.
Its finally become a balanced organization again. That’s trouble for the rest of baseball.
Jerkface:
You gotta stop reading those Fantasy Baseball books and burying yourself in sabermetrics -go out and watch some baseball games, son!
If Betemit was a better shortstop than Jeter you could rest assured he’d be a starter somewhere instead of a 26-year old utilityman, career .264 hitter whose been with 3 teams in 2 years!
Gotta say “thanks” tho, that statement was about the most hiliarious one I’ve heard all week!
“Look at UZR????
How about look at getting a life?
Watch a game and comapre SS’s before you throw defensive stats out at us.”
come on people. let’s have a good debate. this is a horrible argument. it’s the equivalent of saying “because i said so!!”. make your points and back them with facts. that’s all i ask. i will respect good counter-arguments.
“No self respecting GM or scout looks at def stats.”
this isn’t true at all. GMs are looking at defensive stats. the Cardinals employed MGL (Michael Lichtman) who *CREATED* UZR.
how did the Cards do last year??
And since when did wilson Betemit become the second coming of Christ??
HE couldn’t crack the starting lineup in LA or Atlanta…over the likes of an aging Nomar and Jeff Kent.
His scouting report is as a serviceable infielder at several positions, a good pinch-hitter, with plus-power potential.
He should get more time next year, but right now, why fix what isn’t broken…
Also with a runner on 2nd, 2 outs in the 9th, I’d put my money on Jeter to make up for that run 30% of the time. His historical average in that situation.
It’s funny when Kay KILLS Peralta(sp) for diving and have the ball go off his glove in back of second base, yet doesnt comment when Jeter isn’t even in the picture on that same screen.
“Where is Peter to change the topic????????”
this is one thing we definitely agree on!
LathamJoe: Trust me when I say I watch a ton of baseball games, I enjoy baseball so much that I want to know everything about it. Thats what sabr is all about. Watching games to see the how, then figuring out the why. If you would like an estimate as to the number of games I watch each year it would be in the area of 300.
There are plenty of players who are better than Jeter at SS that are not full time starters on major league clubs. That is because they do not put up the sick offensive numbers Jeter does.
Betemit will never hit like Jeter, but he will put up an above average OPS while providing above average defense if you stick him at 1st.
We have a better fielder than Jeter in our minors named ALberto Gonzalez.
SJ44, what do you think about the position players we just drafted, specifically Suttle, Sublett, Angelini, Weems, and Snyder?
i would LOVE to get all these guys signed.
this is how it gets to 100000 replies, when peter goes missing for more than 12 hours.
Let’s not act like the Dodgers are ran by a genius. I mean it took Grady Little half a season to realize Chad Billingsley should be in his rotation. It shouldn’t come as a surprise that he insists on playing aging vets like Garciapra and Kent over the many talented young players in the organization.
To liven up this thread, I propose the First Base Drinking Game. In any discussion over who should start at first base this season, drink for each of the following comments or their equivalents:
-You have to watch the games.
-You don’t need an All-Star at every position.
-It doesn’t matter how badly our first baseman hits because we have so many other great hitters.
-Don’t mess with success.
-Player X should start because he has character.
-Did you see that great scoop Player X made? He should be our starting first baseman.
-Josh Phelps is the bane of humanity.
Drink for each of the following made without any rational explanation or support:
-Defensive statistics are meaningless.
-Player X is valuable because he saves so many runs with his defense.
-Defense is more important than offense.
-The importance of defense at first base is underrated.
Caution: You will be dead after about 50 posts.
I’m with you, Doreen. In fact, I now think Doreen should play 1B, and Jessica Alba should play SS.
Gotta watch out for that Alba character…I don’t want the rest of the infield getting herpes.
Jerkface:
I played baseball and softball for over 30 years. On several teams I played for, there was the rare individual called a “gamer”.
Some of these guys were not necessarily the fastest, did not have the greatest range, weren’t the most powerful hitters, but when the game was one the line and a big play was needed – you wanted them to be there. That’s Jeter.
Gonzalez and several others at AA and AAA may have better fielding potential than Jeter, but none of them have gotten the job done in the big stage that Jeter has excelled in time after time.
Don’t make an idiot out of yourself by even suggesting that guys like Betemit and Gonzalez could approach the level of play of a Hall of Famer like Derek Jeter…Please!
Josh Phelps is hitting .333/.447/.633 in Pittsburg.
/ducks and runs away
Can you not SEE that Jeter doesn’t get to anything to his left? Or are we supposed to ignore that bc of his BFOG?
thanks for the farm system update, sj. where do you find the time to follow these guys? i’m definitely psyched for the future. i hope they have some guys with leadership as well as talent. the late 90s yanks (and even today’s) had the leadership and character guys that you need.
Jeremy those arguments work both ways. You can make an argument for and against Phillips.
And yes Phelps is the bane of humanity.
Hmmm,
Sublett and Snyder are in Staten Island. Sublett didn’t hit in the games I saw him play but played well defensively.
Snyder? Wow, is all I can say. In the games I saw him play, he played short, second and centerfield and played all of the positions very, very well.
He also hit like crazy, gap to gap, in the 7 games I saw him play. I really like him and will be interested to see how he does when he faces better pitching in 2008.
He will probably start next year in Tampa. He is a kid I could see progress quickly through the system. He is fun to watch play. Think Shelley Duncan’s energy on a guy that plays like Eric Brynes. That’s the best way I can describe him.
Last I heard, they have deals in place for Angelini, Suttle, Weems and Andrew Romine. They are over the slot deals and the Commissioners Office is holding up their official announcements. I understand Peavey is going to end up going to Oregon State and I haven’t heard anything on Carpenter’s negotiations at this time.
I also heard that Brackman should sign by the 15th.
Joe: You clearly misunderstood what I posted. Jeter is below average defensively. There are A LOT of players better than Jeter in the field that are not starters. We have a few in our minors.
The reason these players are not starters is because Jeter is one of the best offensive players in the game, and those other players are usually below average offensively. Alberto Gonzalez would outfield Jeter x 100, but he can’t hit a lick.
Don’t make an idiot out of YOURSELF by putting Derek Jeter on a pedestal and failing to look through the hype at the kind of player he is. I am sorry that I am more objective than the average yankee fanboy, but its just the facts.
>
That could very well have been a reality if not for Phillips successfully executing that pickoff move by Pettitte yesterday.
As for bringing in Viz with a 7+ lead in Saturday’s game, Joe Torre had to know that there’s a very good chance that the 3 upcoming games with Baltimore will be tight. The Orioles are sending their top 3 starters at us when play begins tonight.
Guthrie (ERA 3.22) goes tonight and has already beaten the Yankees twice this year.
Cabrera (ERA 5.14) is very beatable but can flash greatness when he’s on.
Finanlly, we get strikeout machine Bedard, who, having recently dueled Dice-K and beaten Beckett head on brings an ERA of 3.11 to the Bronx. Just 1 strikeout short of the bicentennial mark, he’s a clear favorite to win the Cy Young award this year. We’ll see him on Wednesday. He’s also already beaten the Yankees twice this year.
With the exception of Bedards 4-0 win against the Yankees and a 10-6 loss to the Yanks by Cabrera on July 29th, all of the games where these starters pitched were decided by 2 or fewer runs.
Anyway you slice it, bringing in your 2nd best reliever while ahead by 7-9 runs late in the game is ABSOLUTELY INEXCUSABLE and please don’t tell me he needs work. The poor guy’s on the same fast track to a spent arm as his predecesors Quantrill, Proctor, & Sturtze.
Work???
Farnsworth NEEDS WORK and he said so himself!
Josh Phelps is hitting .333/.447/.633 in Pittsburg.
/ducks and runs away
IN 30 at bats. Phillips had similar numbers after 30 at bats too. If Phelps continues to play at this rate then you have a point. He still can’t field though. And I’d take Giambi as a DH over Phelps.
Amen, SJ44.
Here’s also hoping that the Yankees extend Nardi’s contract for about twenty years.
Steve, I’m too short, but I might qualify as cute which,
Jeremy, you left out of your drinking game!
Keithny:
Check out Jeter’s positioning sometime. He plays farther in the hole than many shortstops so he gives up some range to his left. The Gold Glove awards that Jeter has won have been voted on by his peers and the MLB managers…. I guess you have a better handle on Jeter’s fielding ability than they do, right?????
>
Does anyone care?
Comparing the vaccuum that is playing in Pittsburg with the pressure of playing in New York is hardly a compelling argument.
SJ44, im very glad what that you mentioned position players in your report. We always hear about the great yankee pitchers in the minors but not the position ones. I, for one, am happy that it goes beyond pitching.
Jeter is a well-below average defensive shortstop. His only virtue is that he doesn’t make enough errors on the balls he gets to earn that moniker. But his range is deplorable. He’s let dozens of grounders up the middle get through for singles that the average major league shortstop turns into a putout. His range to his right isn’t that much better. There should be a PADJ drinking game.
That said, Rodriguez is playing well at third, you can’t play Jeter there, and Jeter does a good enough job that his offensive contributions make up for his utter lack of range. So you can’t move them. In an ideal world, I would.
“please don’t tell me he needs work. ”
Just because you don’t want to hear it doesn’t make it any less true. You wanted to keep him on the shelf until he was needed…how do you expect the Viz to be able to pitch well when he hasn’t seen a batter in (literally) five days?
Joe: Players are not the best judge of talent. THey are bias’d, and not objective at all. They may go by reputation, because they will not see Jeter field from the vantage point we do. Gold Gloves are the biggest crock by the way.
This is why players don’t usually make good GMs, because they lack objective talent analysis.
“IN 30 at bats. Phillips had similar numbers after 30 at bats too. If Phelps continues to play at this rate then you have a point. He still can’t field though. And I’d take Giambi as a DH over Phelps.”
it was a (obviously poor) joke.
StandingO’Neill,
You’re right, many of those arguments do work both ways (e.g., offense is more important than defense). But I’m just going by the most popular comments.
I am a die-hard yankee fan and have been my whole life, and i think jeter is one of the best and most valuable players in the game, BUT he is a below average fielder and thats all I think that jerkface is trying to say. Anyone who thinks Jeter is deserving of these gold gloves is naive.
Damn, Doreen, you’re cute AND get peeved at the “I could care less” phrase. I am developing a big crush on you.
OK, maybe Jessica Alba shouldn’t play SS, but we all know Jessica Biel could outhit Andy P at 1B. She looks very strong.
Actually, PADJ is a bit outdated. Considering how badly he’s regressed, it’s much more often “Past a Lunging Jeter.”
Gold Gloves are definitely the best way to judge fielding. For instance, Rafael Palmeiro was clearly the best fielding 1B in the AL in 1999 when he won the Gold Glove. That’s why he played just 28 games at 1B and was primarily a DH.
bobby abreu won a gold glove. we’re all seeing his wizardry in the field this season, right?
The Yankees have been winning the close games and the improved defense has been an undeniable part of it. Compare this with our horrible record in 1-2 run games during the 1st 2 1/2 months of the season. Phillips has been an integral part of an improved defense.
Peter, can you go and find out from your sources within the Yankees if the rest of the team is high on Phillips? You don’t need to name names so as not to put anyone on the spot for their comments.
Jerkaface:
I am not an average Yankee fanboy either, and have watched them since the late Fifties. My point was that I’ve seen many, many players with exeptional physical abilities, cannon arms, blinding speed, great fielding stats, who have not excelled when their time came to step up . Jeter gets it done when it counts…plain and simple.
Without Jeter and Mo Rivera, there is no Yankee Dynasty from 1996-2000.
To change the subject, if I’m elected “Torre-For-A-Day”, I throw this lineup out against Guthrie:
Cabrera CF
Betemit 2B
Jeter ss
ARod 3B
Posada C
Matsui LF
Duncan DH
Abreu RF
Phillips 1B
I’d think you’d have to be insane not to play Robbie Cano right now.
LathamJoe-
No one is arguing that Jeter doesn’t get it done when it counts. Everyone knows this. And I’m glad you’re not the manager… how do you bench Cano, the hottest hitter on the team…?
“To change the subject, if I’m elected “Torre-For-A-Dayâ€?, I throw this lineup out against Guthrie:
Cabrera CF
Betemit 2B
Jeter ss
ARod 3B
Posada C
Matsui LF
Duncan DH
Abreu RF
Phillips 1B”
so you would play Andy Phillips over Robinson Cano?
you would sit the best defensive player on the team and the hottest hitter in baseball in order to keep Andy Phillips in the lineup? wow.
Good Defense DOES win games.
1. It denies the other team EXTRA outs to score runs.
2. It lowers the pitch counts of the ENTIRE pitching staff and allows starters to pitch deeper into games and lessens the chance of an overused bullpen.
3. It gives added confidence to the pitching staff’s ability to pitch to contact and put the ball in play to get outs instead of depending on strikeouts, which goes back to 2.
4. It adds pressure to opposing hitters, who will feel that they will have to hit the ball perfectly in order to get a hit.
The funniest thing, Torre pencils in Betemit to start today at 1B. Man o man, does he read this blog?
Adam:
Palmeiro was an aberration, Tino should have won the GG that year. If you’ve ever looked at the list of GG Awards, much more often than not the awardees are deserving.
As far as tonight’s lineup, Cano can use a rest against a tough lefty.
Its a good thing that defense is unquantifiable and that Andy Phillips probably isn’t contributing enough to those 4 points thanks to his playing one of the least important positions.
the key defensive positions are SS, 2B, and CF. We have Plus D at 2 of those positions, and get killed on one.
“The funniest thing, Torre pencils in Betemit to start today at 1B. Man o man, does he read this blog?”
nah, Phillips is 3 for his last 22. he needs a day off. Torre will play him tomorrow unless Betemit goes 4-5 tonight with 2 HRs.
“As far as tonight’s lineup, Cano can use a rest against a tough lefty.”
Guthrie is righty.
Cano is killing lefties.
Phillips can’t hit lefties AT ALL.
@ jerkface
>
If a team had an OBP% of 1.000, they would NEVER finish a game because they would NEVER make an out because EVERYONE would get on base otherwise the OBP would NOT be 1.000.
Yeesh!
they could get caught stealing!
IMO one of the best fielding shortstops I’ve seen in the last few years is John McDonald…
Like I continue to say…Jeter has his limitations, but I don’t think you are going to find too many baseball experts calling Jeter a below-average shortstop. Is he the best fielding shortstop in the league? no… is he consistently average to above-average, yes. You rarely ever see him botch a routine play.
and yes, many major league shortstops boot routine plays.
Sorry, my Bad!
hmmm is of course correct. I was confusing Guthrie with Burres, the lefty who pitched pretty effectively against the Yanks the last time they played the O’s.
Wang the groundball machine is pitching tonight so you can expect a lot of action around 1st base tonight.
Betemit’s defensive performance will be closely watched tonight.
The anti-Phillips crowd will get their chance to prove that “BAT BEATS THE GLOVE”
I know that everyone here (everyone cept D trolls) wants nothing but the best from the Yankees. Let’s hope that we don’t come to regret Torre playing Betemit instead of Phillips tonight at 1st base.
It amuses me to no end that “traditional” fans that deplore other fans using statistics accuse them of not watching baseball games. Ever enter into your small, restricted minds that it is possible to do both?
Peter doesn’t understand that the Phillips era ended tonight