Comments on: Rivera, Yankees insist he’s fine physically http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/08/15/rivera-yankees-insist-hes-fine-physically/ A New York Yankees blog by Sam Borden, Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News Fri, 19 Mar 2010 05:58:41 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: randy l http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/08/15/rivera-yankees-insist-hes-fine-physically/comment-page-1/#comment-107376 randy l Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:05:11 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/08/15/rivera-yankees-insist-hes-fine-physically/#comment-107376 latham joe- how do you know that developing an off speed pitch won't screw up his cutter? it's not like you go to walmart and buy one and start to use it. his joints ,tendons, muscle memory are all in sync with throwing a cutter. supination/pronation changes are not easy for 38 year old bones to handle. this is a question that pitching experts could go round and round on. my feelings are that the cutter was a god given talent that mariano has that no one else has. i wouldn't mess with it by mixing in too many other pitches. he basically throws the two seam fastball to keep righties from cheating in. a four seam fastball up and in will do the same thing. i think he needs just two pitches, the cutter and the well located four seam fastball. i think he can keep them from cheating simply with location of the four seam fastball. most good change ups are turned over. i just don't see rivera's arm doing that move. it's also why i don't like the two seam fastball which will run more if you turn it over. he looks very uncomfortable throwing it. we're not going to get an answer here,but it's worth watching in detail what strategy mariano is going to use. you can be sure other team's advanced scouts will be watching. all this said i'd be delighted if he had a great change that fooled hitters, but for all the reasons above, i don't see it happening. latham joe-
how do you know that developing an off speed pitch won’t screw up his cutter? it’s not like you go to walmart and buy one and start to use it. his joints ,tendons, muscle memory are all in sync with throwing a cutter. supination/pronation changes are not easy for 38 year old bones to handle.
this is a question that pitching experts could go round and round on. my feelings are that the cutter was a god given talent that mariano has that no one else has. i wouldn’t mess with it by mixing in too many other pitches. he basically throws the two seam fastball to keep righties from cheating in. a four seam fastball up and in will do the same thing. i think he needs just two pitches, the cutter and the well located four seam fastball. i think he can keep them from cheating simply with location of the four seam fastball. most good change ups are turned over. i just don’t see rivera’s arm doing that move. it’s also why i don’t like the two seam fastball which will run more if you turn it over. he looks very uncomfortable throwing it.
we’re not going to get an answer here,but it’s worth watching in detail what strategy mariano is going to use. you can be sure other team’s advanced scouts will be watching.
all this said i’d be delighted if he had a great change that fooled hitters, but for all the reasons above, i don’t see it happening.

]]> By: Ed http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/08/15/rivera-yankees-insist-hes-fine-physically/comment-page-1/#comment-107368 Ed Thu, 16 Aug 2007 13:28:28 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/08/15/rivera-yankees-insist-hes-fine-physically/#comment-107368 Have to agree with Pat M. It is amazing how quickly Yankee 'fans' are willing to toss Rivera in the trash heap. You had better hope he's healthy because if he's not this season is already over. http://valentinesviews.blogspot.com/2007/08/time-to-worry-about-mo.html Have to agree with Pat M. It is amazing how quickly Yankee ‘fans’ are willing to toss Rivera in the trash heap. You had better hope he’s healthy because if he’s not this season is already over. http://valentinesviews.blogspo.....ut-mo.html

]]> By: Rick http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/08/15/rivera-yankees-insist-hes-fine-physically/comment-page-1/#comment-107342 Rick Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:14:54 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/08/15/rivera-yankees-insist-hes-fine-physically/#comment-107342 Mariano is still a good pitcher. That being said he is also not the pitcher he was a few years ago. The last few days and this season have proven this. (Hits to innings and a 3.5 ERA are not elite numbers anymore) He is not invincible and not always a sure thing like he was. I think age and mileage are catching up to him. Hopefully he remains the reliable pitcher he has been for most of the season. The Yankees need him. Mariano is still a good pitcher. That being said he is also not the pitcher he was a few years ago. The last few days and this season have proven this. (Hits to innings and a 3.5 ERA are not elite numbers anymore) He is not invincible and not always a sure thing like he was. I think age and mileage are catching up to him. Hopefully he remains the reliable pitcher he has been for most of the season. The Yankees need him.

]]> By: pat m in CT http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/08/15/rivera-yankees-insist-hes-fine-physically/comment-page-1/#comment-107309 pat m in CT Thu, 16 Aug 2007 04:50:07 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/08/15/rivera-yankees-insist-hes-fine-physically/#comment-107309 Amazed at the number of people ready to toss Mo under a bus.These are the same people who'd take the bat out of Mattingly, O'Neill, Jeter or A-Rod's hands in the 9th. This is arguably the greatest reliever in the history of the game, with a long track record. Do people still expect the sheer dominance/brilliance of 96-03? As pointed out before, he's been terrific for the last 4 months with that impressive performance against Rios, Thomas, and Wells (a notorious yankee killer) just last week. Mo will be FINE. People need to chill out. Appreciate him now because he will be very hard to replace (no, don't even think of putting joba there) Amazed at the number of people ready to toss Mo under a bus.These are the same people who’d take the bat out of Mattingly, O’Neill, Jeter or A-Rod’s hands in the 9th. This is arguably the greatest reliever in the history of the game, with a long track record. Do people still expect the sheer dominance/brilliance of 96-03? As pointed out before, he’s been terrific for the last 4 months with that impressive performance against Rios, Thomas, and Wells (a notorious yankee killer) just last week. Mo will be FINE. People need to chill out. Appreciate him now because he will be very hard to replace (no, don’t even think of putting joba there)

]]> By: Harley http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/08/15/rivera-yankees-insist-hes-fine-physically/comment-page-1/#comment-107306 Harley Thu, 16 Aug 2007 04:45:31 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/08/15/rivera-yankees-insist-hes-fine-physically/#comment-107306 Mariano is the backbone that this team cannot win without. There. I said it. But he is also an aging reliever who will, and has to some extent already, begin to diminish. It happens to everyone. It will happen to him. But this is not to suggest the inane. There's no need for Joba or Edwar or anyone else to replace him. On the other hand, it's probably similarly counterproductive to treat him with fanboy worship rather than sober assessment. Which means giving him rest when he needs it. Which means watching him carefullly when he goes through a patch like this. Mariano is the backbone that this team cannot win without. There. I said it. But he is also an aging reliever who will, and has to some extent already, begin to diminish. It happens to everyone. It will happen to him.

But this is not to suggest the inane. There’s no need for Joba or Edwar or anyone else to replace him. On the other hand, it’s probably similarly counterproductive to treat him with fanboy worship rather than sober assessment. Which means giving him rest when he needs it. Which means watching him carefullly when he goes through a patch like this.

]]> By: LathamJoe http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/08/15/rivera-yankees-insist-hes-fine-physically/comment-page-1/#comment-107279 LathamJoe Thu, 16 Aug 2007 03:18:16 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/08/15/rivera-yankees-insist-hes-fine-physically/#comment-107279 I've watched Mo with admiration since his post season appearances vs. Seattle in 1995, as a setup man for Wetteland in 1996, and as the premier closer in MLB from 1997 to the present. He is my most favorite baseball player since my youngster days of idolizing Mickey Mantle. That said, to claim that Mo is the same dominant closer this season that he's been in the past is wishful thinking. He IS 37 years old and lacks the stamina of his youth - like every athlete his age (save for those who can recover through use of PEDs). I have watched almost all of Mo's appearances - in person or on TV. He still has the same velocity, the control is close to what its been throughout his career. Obviously He doesn't possess the stamina of his youth which sometimes affects his control, but the main difference I've noticed in Mo, at least in the past 2-3 seasons, is that he doesn't "miss bats" as much. It tells me that his cutter has lost a little movement. In the past, even when he uncharacteristically missed location, the batter still couldn't center his pitch because of the incredible late movement. Batters have hit more balls on the screws against him in the past few years - especially this year. Mo "re-invented" himself 5-6 years ago when batters looked strictly for the cutter. As I said before, I think its time for Mo to come with something off speed. The cutter, 2-seamer and 4-seamer all sit around 92-9 ocassionally hitting 95. Hitters are timing his pitches much better than in the past and without the late life, are making more solid contact. I believe he was experimenting with a sinker in S.T., but throws it rarely. Imagine if Mo comes of with something off speed to disrupt the hitters timing, prevent them from sitting on his 92-94 speed . Just having hitters worry about something between 84-88 mph would make the fastballs so much more effective! BTW, the O's are one of Mo's toughest opponents (3.26 ERA lifetime in 91 IPs) so resting him today in favor of Viz or Joba wouldn't have been far-fetched. I’ve watched Mo with admiration since his post season appearances vs. Seattle in 1995, as a setup man for Wetteland in 1996, and as the premier closer in MLB from 1997 to the present. He is my most favorite baseball player since my youngster days of idolizing Mickey Mantle.

That said, to claim that Mo is the same dominant closer this season that he’s been in the past is wishful thinking. He IS 37 years old and lacks the stamina of his youth – like every athlete his age (save for those who can recover through use of PEDs).

I have watched almost all of Mo’s appearances – in person or on TV. He still has the same velocity, the control is close to what its been throughout his career. Obviously He doesn’t possess the stamina of his youth which sometimes affects his control, but the main difference I’ve noticed in Mo, at least in the past 2-3 seasons, is that he doesn’t “miss bats” as much. It tells me that his cutter has lost a little movement. In the past, even when he uncharacteristically missed location, the batter still couldn’t center his pitch because of the incredible late movement. Batters have hit more balls on the screws against him in the past few years – especially this year.
Mo “re-invented” himself 5-6 years ago when batters looked strictly for the cutter. As I said before, I think its time for Mo to come with something off speed. The cutter, 2-seamer and 4-seamer all sit around 92-9 ocassionally hitting 95. Hitters are timing his pitches much better than in the past and without the late life, are making more solid contact.
I believe he was experimenting with a sinker in S.T., but throws it rarely. Imagine if Mo comes of with something off speed to disrupt the hitters timing, prevent them from sitting on his 92-94 speed . Just having hitters worry about something between 84-88 mph would make the fastballs so much more effective!

BTW, the O’s are one of Mo’s toughest opponents (3.26 ERA lifetime in 91 IPs) so resting him today in favor of Viz or Joba wouldn’t have been far-fetched.

]]> By: bill http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/08/15/rivera-yankees-insist-hes-fine-physically/comment-page-1/#comment-107264 bill Thu, 16 Aug 2007 02:57:23 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/08/15/rivera-yankees-insist-hes-fine-physically/#comment-107264 SJ44 is so full of himself; all he does is mix assertion with pseudo stats. i.e. "Mariano is fine...You think he's not fine? Sorry, I don't buy it...If you take his earned runs out of his earned run average he has a 0.00 ERA!!!" right... SJ44 is so full of himself; all he does is mix assertion with pseudo stats. i.e. “Mariano is fine…You think he’s not fine? Sorry, I don’t buy it…If you take his earned runs out of his earned run average he has a 0.00 ERA!!!” right…

]]> By: randy l http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/08/15/rivera-yankees-insist-hes-fine-physically/comment-page-1/#comment-107236 randy l Thu, 16 Aug 2007 02:05:37 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/08/15/rivera-yankees-insist-hes-fine-physically/#comment-107236 sj44- after looking more closely at the numbers you gave maybe you're right and that's it's just the bad luck of two bad outings. mariano's next few outings are going to be scrutinized that's for sure. i'm going to be looking at pitch selection myself. i still don't like the mix. sj44-
after looking more closely at the numbers you gave maybe you’re right and that’s it’s just the bad luck of two bad outings. mariano’s next few outings are going to be scrutinized that’s for sure. i’m going to be looking at pitch selection myself. i still don’t like the mix.

]]> By: whoa http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/08/15/rivera-yankees-insist-hes-fine-physically/comment-page-1/#comment-107228 whoa Thu, 16 Aug 2007 01:55:18 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/08/15/rivera-yankees-insist-hes-fine-physically/#comment-107228 "What loss of stamina? He has pitched less innings, at this point of the season, than he has at this point last year." It's not about total IP. It's about usage patterns. He was in for 30 pitches on Sunday. Mo never had down periods until he hit his mid 30s. He has had them virtually every year since recently. It's really indisputable. “What loss of stamina? He has pitched less innings, at this point of the season, than he has at this point last year.”

It’s not about total IP. It’s about usage patterns. He was in for 30 pitches on Sunday.

Mo never had down periods until he hit his mid 30s. He has had them virtually every year since recently. It’s really indisputable.

]]> By: CT http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/08/15/rivera-yankees-insist-hes-fine-physically/comment-page-1/#comment-107216 CT Thu, 16 Aug 2007 01:38:32 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/08/15/rivera-yankees-insist-hes-fine-physically/#comment-107216 Doesn't this happen every year? Mo blows a couple of saves early in the season then a couple in the middle of the season. Why is everyone worried? Doesn’t this happen every year? Mo blows a couple of saves early in the season then a couple in the middle of the season. Why is everyone worried?

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