Screw loose for Moose
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- August
- 22
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Mike Mussina offered no excuses, saying only that he was awful and tonight was one of the worst performances in his career.
It was his shortest as a Yankee, matching the 1.2 innings he pitched against Baltimore on Sept. 27, 2005. Now 8-9, he has a 5.22 ERA and has allowed 13 earned runs in his last two starts.
After winning four games in a row and pitching very well, Mussina has been brutal. “It just disappeared,” he said.
Don’t expect any changes. Mussina will remain in the rotation. Losing two games in a row, no matter how badly, doesn’t mean they’re going to throw Ian Kennedy into the pennant race. Mussina didn’t win 247 games by accident.
As for the bullpen, the Yankees are OK for the final game of the series. They have Joba Chamberlain for two, Farnsworth for one and Rivera for one. But Andy Pettitte needs to go at least six.
This entry was posted
on Wednesday, August 22nd, 2007 at 2:26 am by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
mussina needs to be traded in a hurry and to sweeten the deal, we’d throw igawa in as well
uhh, its frustrating but I kind of expected this after losing yesterday, but still not this bad. Moose just cannot pitch against good teams, but keep this loss in perspective, need a win tomorrow then just get the hell outta town and regroup in Detroit.
Pete, I know Mussina didn’t win 240 games by accident, but he can’t even win a game by accident. His stuff isn’t good enough against a good hitting lineup. It’s the truth.
I hope there are changes to the bullpen because we have an obvious need for a long man. Steven White, Ross Ohlendorf, Karstens, and who ever else could be that guy. It’s a need. So long Villone.
247 games…my bad.
so many of the hits off moose were on the first pitch, he wasn’t fooling anybody. don’t know how accurate the Angel Stadium gun is but I don’t think he topped 87 once. Pettitte needs to pitch a gem tomorrow, being at angel stadium surrounded by retarded fans for two losses is more than enough
It would have been a lot better if the Yankees had Vizcaino for one instead of Farnsworth tomorrow…
“Mussina didn’t win 247 games by accident.”
Um, he didn’t win them with an 86 mph fastball either. Stop living in the past.
DFA Villone, send down Henn.
Promote White and Britton.
Taylor just a little remark. it was the Viz who blew last night’s game(as a matter of fact i blame him for loosing that game. no one else). and Farnsworth pitch although not a pretty but a scoreless inning.
Ben, Vizcaino had just complained of a tired arm the night before that – which isn’t a surprise given how much Torre has used him. Secondly, if you actually look at the balls that were hit last night, you could easily see that Farnsworth was hit harder, despite what their respective lines were. Vizcaino had two groundballs find holes. Farnsworth gave up a hard hit double, a walk (if memory serves me right on the walk), and a ball hit on the screws that Betemit made a great play on.
Fact is, I could care less what each of their lines were in the game on Friday. Vizcaino is better than Farnsworth. You know it, I know it, and I would be the house that Torre believes that – but he still somehow used Viz instead of Farnsworth in this blowout tonight.
I actually like Henn, for some reason. But DFA-ing Villone is a good idea.
Sending Henn down is about getting a fresh arm in reserve in the pen just in case, since Britton needs a day or two because he threw 3 IP tonight.
btw, Torre’s use of Viz tonight was unconscionable given the recent report that he asked not to pitch on Sunday and showed fatigue on Monday. Use Farns, use a starter on his throw day, use a position player to throw an inning.
Even Flaherty, who criticizes no one, second guessed it.
But Torre is the best manager ever so it’s fine.
Promote Steven White or Ohlendorf. A long man is definitely needed.
Mussina is at best a No. 5 starter anymore. Can’t be counted on with any degree of confidence. Just a mop up man in the pen for the rest of this year. Bring up either Steven White or Ian Kennedy to fill the No. 5 slot.
Cashman should make every effort to deal Mussina this winter even if it requires eating some salary. A long reliever is needed – the sooner the better.
Britton or Bruney has to be brought up before Vizcaino’s arm falls off. DFA Villone.
Garrett Anderson among other Angels have slaughtered Yankee pitching for years. Every hitter has a weakness and there’s no excuse why videos and reports haven’t found out ways to get them out.
Pete, tell me again , Cashman didn’t want Ted Lilly, WHY??
The problem is, Moose is cooked; finished. How many people have confidence in him, and how many really think he’ll rebound in 2008?
I, and many of my Yankee friends don’t.
Meanwhile, I agree with use a position player to pitch that last inning.
Torre’s use (abuse?) of Vizcaino since August 1st. Note the number of games where the margin was 5 or more either way.
8/1-ahead 6
8/3-ahead 5
8/4-ahead 9
8/6-ahead 2
8/11-ahead 8
8/12-ahead 3
8/14-down 12
8/16-down 5
8/18-ahead 3
8/20-ahead 1
8/21-behind 9
Its not just two bad starts.
Its his overall ineffectiveness. His starts are so bad, he blows out the bullpen for days, leading to more losses.
Its a huge, huge problem.
Here are his numbers in the 11 starts he has made against AL Teams with above .500 records this season:
2-8, 46 2/3 innings, 62 hits, 7.42 ERA. That’s not two bad starts.
That’s Igawa-like. Its awful. In fact, its the worst in the league.
His next two scheduled starts are against Detroit, a team that pounded him, and Tampa Bay, a team that pounded him TWICE (once in NY and once in Tampa).
How in the world can they hand him the ball for those two starts?
The past is the past. At one time, Randy Johnson could actually pitch.
To spend the second half of the season retooling the team, which had gotten them back in the race, going young for old in almost every decision, and stopping with Mike Mussina is (pardon my expression) just nuts.
It makes no sense.
He stays in the rotation, they can forget the playoffs.
JMO but, I don’t think chucking the season to keep Mike Mussina happy is worth it.
He should have three choices: retire, the DL (to set up a graceful exit) or he becomes a long guy. Keeping his spot in the rotation shouldn’t even be on the table at this point.
If it is, all of our October schedules have just been freed up. It would be the most nonsensical decision they have made all year.
Posted this in the other thread, but want to make the point here as well:
I think the problem we all have here is that we’re remembering Mussina as a top of the rotation guy, when, in reality, he’s really more like a 5th starter now. Yes Mussina pitched horribly, and yes, Mussina inspires little confidence, but you have to take him for what he is these days. The fifth guy in your rotation often gets beat when facing good teams, especially when that team is throwing one of its top 2 guys. And the Angels are a really good team. Do I love Mussina, no, do I hate the fact that he’s whiny and often lacks accountability yes, but he serves his purpose. My biggest fear is that if we make the playoffs, Torre will show loyalty to him and give him a start, which would be a nightmare, especially in a five game series.
But, that’s just it, he’s not a 5th starter.
He’s not even pitching well enough to be a 5th starter for a AAA team, let alone a ML team.
Fifth starters don’t get blasted like this every time he faces a good team.
Also, no small order, they aren’t paying him like a 5th starter. If he wants to be a 5th starter, then give 10 million of this years salary back and he can be paid like a 5th starter. The “5th starter” talk is soft landing talk for Mussina. He gets no soft landing from me.
I know some on the Yankees beat don’t like the idea of calling up Kennedy because they can’t understand why fans would want “another rookie” in the rotation. As if that’s a bad thing.
Hell, without the rookies on this team, they may already be playing for next year.
I also think many on the beat like Moose because he is an interesting guy to talk to. That’s fine but, that doesn’t help win games.
The guy can’t pitch anymore. Its so evident, the fact we even having a debate on the subject defies logic.
Even in his “good” outings, its a struggle. You aren’t going to the playoffs with a guy this bad in the rotation.
Put it another way. If we had Kei Igawa in the rotation, would you like your playoff chances? I would say the answer to that question is, “no”.
Well, Moose’s numbers against good teams are Igawa-like. He’s presently the Kei Igawa of this rotation.
His past is just that, his past. It has no bearing on what he is now.
Keeping him in the rotation (if that is the decision) will keep the Yankees out of the playoffs, IMO. It will be the decision they regret most this winter.
Its a mindnumblingly bad decision, given all the work they have done to re-tool the team.
The Yankees don’t owe Mike Mussina anything. They have paid him over 100 million dollars. They owe the team, and the fans who support this enterprise, to do the best they can to try and make the playoffs.
Keeping Mike Mussina in the rotation doesn’t give this team its best chance to win.
They have spit up 4 games to the loss column in the WC hunt in a little over a week. That’s based mostly on Moose’s starts and the collateral damage (bullpen wear and tear) it produces. That’s not good.
That has to change. If not, September will be more about discussing 2008 than discussing playoff matchups.
If Mussina stays in the rotation, forget the playoffs, I don’t care what Mussina has done in the past, what have you done for me lately ?
Mussina gets paid to do a job. If he is incapable of still doing it, time to move on.
I agree. For better or worse, the Yankees are married to Mussina for the rest of the season. However, this should preclude them from skipping him for ONE start to avoid Detroit and Boston.
Were I the Yankees I would proceed acccordingly.
With the day off on Thursday, the Yankees can pitch,
1) Clemens on Friday (5 days rest)
2) Wang on Saturday (5 days rest)
3) Hughes on Sunday (5 days rest)
4) Pettitte on Monday (4 days rest)(this assumes Pettitte doesn’t have to throw more than 110 pitches tonight)
Now, while Pete is right, it’s too much to ask a rookie to pitch every fifth day in the major during a pennant race, you can pitch him ONE game. (Boston demonstrated as much with Bucholz last Friday against the Angels)
Ian Kennedy is currently on schedule to pitch on August 28th. That also happens to be the first game of the Red Sox series. For this one game, I would promote Kennedy.
The rotation for Boston then would be:
1) Kennedy – August 28th
2) Clemens — August 29th
3) Wang– August 30th
I would tell Mussina that the team wants him to take a turn to clear his head, to regain his confidence, to rectify his mechanics, etc.
I would then return Mussina to the rotation on September 2nd against the Devil Rays.
Moose can’t hack it vs. the patient good teams in the AL anymore….
There is a reason Jamie Moyer, Maddux, and Glavine — all of comparable stuff and velocity — pitch in the NL.
Is Kennedy the only anser for 5th starter? What do you do with Mussina? Can you really pull him from the rotation, just like that…?
I don’t even consider IGawa…unless he shuts out the entire minor leagues for a month.
“Pete, tell me again , Cashman didn’t want Ted Lilly, WHY??”
It’s okay. We had Ted Lilly originally, but we traded him for Jeff Weaver…that deal worked out well!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA….::sobs::
MOOOOOSSSEEEE xan’t hack it anymore. Poor guy mad me feel bad for him rather than pissed off he gave the Halos an easy victroy. But this is getting outta hand. How many times do we look at our bullpen in blow out situations ask em to limit the damage and what do they do. They blow. Villone, Henn, Ramirez all need to look hard in the mirror and ask themselves if pitching for a playoff contender in heated situations is what they want. We knoe Gag-ne can’t hack it but we got like 3 of those on our team. Im just impressed to see us clobber Escobar like we have in his career. Lets say it’s LAA BOS CLE who win he divisons. we win the wildcard. Chances are LAA and BOS finish with the best record in the bigs. So we would have to kick a 5 game series in LAA. Knowing this we would have Pettite gm 1, Rocket gm 2, Wang gm 3 (i say Wang in game 3 because i do not want him pitching in LAA for any reason that place is a f horrors let the vets take care of it). We’ve pummled Esco. Lackey has success but we pound him more times than not. And Weaver will just be a tough one. But the yanks have to figure out how to get Chone, Cabrera, and Howie off the base paths. The Angels will be our only scary team come October. We got like 6 k’s so far this series these guys just put the bat on the ball its annoying.