On to the Motor City
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Aug 23, 2007 
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Thanks to everybody who stayed up late blogging during the Angels series. If you missed the Joba-Vlad matchup, listen to Chamberlain in the previous post and get a little taste. It was pretty cool.
I have an early-morning flight to Detroit that connects through Chicago, so I won’t be blogging until late in the afternoon.
So get some work done for a change.
OK, I won’t leave you hanging. Read this tremendous story in the L.A. Times about the 1959 Gibson Les Paul Standard guitar. Whether you’re into music or not, it’s very interesting.
Catch you from Detroit.
The interview with Joba just continues to buffer without getting any sound… Not sure if there’s a problem with it or a problem with my own internet.
Pete, you are killing me. I was just lusting after a Les Paul online today. New ones have shot up in price over the last few years as well, to the point where you need a pretty damn good reason to buy one. Oh well, I’ll put that dream on hold for the moment.
me too… the buffering i mean
less Gibson Paul, more Yankees
Going from Los Angeles and ending up in Detroit. That must be a great experience.
Joba continues to dazzle! This kid is really, really special! WE DEFINITELY NEEDED THIS ONE! A big dubyah! Go Yanks in the Motor City (use to be).
Staying up to around 1:00 AM to see Joba was worth it…Must See TV. I mean, I even knew that slider was coming to Vlad, but after that heater Vlad had to think. From what Flaherty was saying it sounds as if the slider is so good, that even if you know it is coming it has fastball spin and you can’t lay off it. Just amazing.
Joba is sure garnering lots of attention from the league. Waldman said that other broadcasters have been coming up to her and asking, “When’s the kid pitching?” Those rules are painful for fans, but at least we can plan our schedules around his pitching appearances. Seriously.
On other topic, Mo looked shaky out there again in the 9th. Hope he gets back to the ‘ol Mo soon. We need him down the stretch and beyond. We won’t always have a run or two to play around with when he comes in.
Roy Oswalt, Santana, Tim Hudson, Andy Pet. — the four best pitchers since the All-Star break.
GO PETT!
Andy Pettitte exemplifies Yankee class.
Pete,
Thanks for the article on the Gibson LP… I always stop at tag/yard sales just hoping I’ll find one. Some ridiculous vintage guitars have shown up there.
Did Torre say a thing about who would replace Moose if he did poorly in his next start? Im praying Moose will find out whats wrong and fix it fast but I am skeptical. You have to believe it will be kennedy. He has the best stats of any prospect in the minor league system at this point.
IP: 141.1 ERA: 1.85 Record:12 – 2 WHIP: 0.96 K/9:10.0
hE IS 1-0 WITH A 1.86 era in triple A over 29 innings which is right on par with his season stats which takes into account single and double A as well. Not to mention, if Jobe can be brought up this season when he didnt even pitch in the minor last yr – why cant kennedy? Kennedy is 22 while Joba is 21 and Kennedy has far more innings under his belt from college.
I hate when the Yankees aren’t playing. We all know the trolls will out in full force.
Thank Goodness we are done with the West Coast. And I couldnt be more happy we got outta there with one W. Now lets focus on winning the whole stinkin thing.
Going from Los Angeles to Detroit?
Like going from heaven to hell.
I don’t think it will be Kennedy. He is nearing his innings cap. Everyone better pray Mike figures it out. Becuase Kei just had a pretty good outing last time out and I don’t think you want to see him back! Talk about wanting to gouge your eyes out while watching him pitch. I don’t think i’d be able to stomach watching him pitch.
Edwar should teach Mo his changeup and Mo should teach Edwar his cutter.
Joba should teach everybody his slider. Roger should teach everybody his splitter.
“Edwar should teach Mo his changeup and Mo should teach Edwar his cutter.
Joba should teach everybody his slider. Roger should teach everybody his splitter.”
Don’t you think if it was that easy than everyone would do it???
I’m paying the price for seeing Joba right now.
I need the off day more than the players.
I think it’s Steven White. He doesn’t have an innings cap, I think. Get Chris Britton up for Villone.
A major league scout familiar with Mussina’s work said yesterday that velocity “is his problem.” Mussina has never been a power pitcher, nor has he needed to throw that hard to win. But his hard stuff was clocked mostly around 86 mph Tuesday night in Anaheim, which the scout says hinders Mussina’s arsenal of off-speed and breaking pitches.
“You have to have separation,” the scout said. “There has to be some change of speeds with the fastball. If the changeup or the breaking balls are too close, they lose their effectiveness.”
The scout also noted the difference in Mussina’s starts against good teams and bad ones. Mussina is 2-4 with a 6.65 ERA in eight starts against teams that had winning records entering yesterday’s play. Against teams that were below .500 entering yesterday, he was 6-5 with a 4.34 ERA.
“Which is typical when you start to lose your stuff,” the scout said. “You’re still smart enough to get the inferior hitters out, but you have problems when you pitch against the better-hitting teams because there are fewer inferior hitters.”
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....ooked.html
I was going to write that it seems like it’s happened all of a sudden to Mussina, but actually we’ve been reading about the drop in velocity since spring training, with occasional bursts in a few games. I guess the answer is to try and slow down the breaking pitches to re-create that separation, but how do you do that? Can it even be done?
I’m in no way defending Dice-K — maybe this question is more a dig at Iggy. But: Of those 12 games Daisuke lost, how many were by two runs or less?
Anyway: My brother owns a Fender Broadcaster, and I bet Pete knows how rare those are! They sure don’t make ‘em like they used to. You plug that thing through a 1960s Fender Twin and your skills are immediately upped by 25 percent….
I have to agree – Joba was electric last night. I was so hyped up that I couldn’t fall asleep after the game!
I love watching Andy Pettitte pitch. He is so animated, so into the game and so fierce. It’s great entertainment and makes for GREAT baseball!!
I’ll believe they’ll bench Moose when I see it. I know they’ve worked in a rotation of Damon and Giambi due to Melky’s play, sent Igawa down when he stunk, and they’ve gotten rid of veteran relievers who havent produced… but Moose is a whole different ballgame.
Well, at least we know Mussina doesn’t use steroids – there better be a backup plan in place for his next start. The Tigers are gonna have Moose for dinner! Yum, yum. It’s so good to see Pettite doing his thing in NY again. Always a favorite of mine, missed his enthusiasm and grit. Get some rest today, boys, and then GO YANKS Friday night in MOTOWN.
Doreen,
In a word, no. You only have so many bullets in the arm. With a guy like Mussina, especially in the AL, when you lose velocity, its awfully tough to be effective.
If he was in the NL, like Glavine, for example, he could outfox his way through weaker lineups. You can’t do it in the AL.
He doesn’t miss many bats anymore and I don’t see that changing. If you look back on his starts, the scout is spot on. His success has come against younger, free swinging teams (Texas, KC, Cleveland). Against veteran teams, he has gotten pummelled.
I understand the logic of why they are giving him the Monday start. They have him avoid Boston (which is a good thing) and, if he bombs, they can replace him in next start by not having to make a roster move since the roster expand to 40 on September 1, his next scheduled start.
Its just unfortunate, when every game is so important, they are basically chucking one away to save a roster move.
But, it is what it is. Hopefully, they can find a way to win the first 3 games (difficult but, doable) so, Monday won’t sting so much.
Given how they are playing it, its probably going to be Steven White or Igawa who takes his spot in the rotation. Barring of course, a complete turnaround by Mussina.
If Kennedy is near or at his innings cap, they won’t mess with that and I can’t blame them.
I used to think the same way TurnTwo. Then I listened to Torre last night. It was the most tepid “show of support” he has ever given Mussina.
That made me realize, he is pitching for his spot in the rotation on Monday.
There were no platitudes from Torre and very little support. When he does that with a player, that player is walking the plank.
They have changed old for young the entire second half of the season. Regardless of what Moose has done in his career, they aren’t giving him another shot (after Monday), in the rotation, IMO, unless he shows he can do it.
Even Joe Torre isn’t going to have a long leash for a guy who can’t get out of the second inning every start.
SJ44 –
Aside from the innings cap, I’m not sure it’s the best idea to bring another rookie into the rotation during a pennant run. But if it’s the only alternative, I guess ya gotta do what ya gotta do. I guess White’s a rookie, too, so 6 of one, half dozen of the other. Igawa does not seem like a truly viable alternative, but at least he’s got ML experience (barely).
Still, as poorly as Mussina’s done the past 2 starts, you have to admit he wasn’t THAT bad previously. I’m not ready to concede that his starts are an automatic loss yet.
Really nice win last night! Joba was awesome once again. Strangely, I get that same sense of confidence that I felt when Mo appeared in his prime – the feeling that NO ONE was going to reach first base much less score a run.
Flaherty remarked that Mo’s ball had late movement last night and the run scored was really a matter of luck – 2 of the hits were flukey and the other one was not really hit well. Still, he’s not ‘missing bats” like we’ve come to expect. He really does need to change speeds to keep these hitters honest.
Kay also mentioned that Torre had a long talk with Mussina.
Could that be to sooth is ego about missing a start or working in the bullpen?
It was totally laughable the swings the Angels had on Joba’s slider….classic ! They weren’t within a FOOT of the thing…EVER !
like it was said, i dont see them calling another rookie up into the rotation at this point in the playoff race, and i just dont see Igawa as a viable option even with his MLB experience this season.
with the lack of true options for a replacement, i’d believe he is pitching moreso for his spot on the team next season than for the rotation down the stretch.
Yankee-insomnia is terrible when we lose but so worth it when we win. Got home for a long day of traveling last night in time to watch the 7-8-9th of the game. Love Joba. I love the energy he is bringing on the mound and I love the results. You could hear the crowd last night “ooohing” and “aaahing” after Joba hit 100 on that fastball to Vlad. Little scary that Vlad hit it straight back. But to strike out Vlad, priceless!
doreen-
clemens is 45ish and is still a power pitcher. pettite picked up 2-3 mph and has maintained it from his workouts with clemens. mussina has been around clemens for a long time. have you ever heard of him picking up clemens workout routine or working out with him? it’s not surprising to me that doing the new york times crossword puzzle doesn’t build up as much arm strenth as long toss and tough workouts.
i’m just hoping he can win enough of his games to help the yankees get in the playoffs and that hughes gets his game and his pitch count up enough to take over the 4th spot for the playoffs.
Joba struck out 3 but he gave up a hit? I can’t believe Torre left him in … DFA the guy and call up Igawa!
Speed (100 on a slow gun – yowza!) and location make it tough but if Vlad can foul tip one of those straight back, that says something about the significance of movement on a fastball. And it says something about Vlad getting around on it too of course.
NYR – of course “location, location, location” is important but if there’s no movement on it, Vlad hits that one into orbit over the CF wall.
Joba’s got some nasty stuff thats for sure. Can’t wait until 09 to see him cut loose.
DFA the guy and call up Igawa!
I agree, Igawa’s got expereince
I’m beginning to think Joba won’t be in the rotation next year and he’ll be in the bullpen unless Humberto Sanchez or Mark Melancon comes back from TJ and are lights out. Even if they do come back it probably won’t be until the middle of the year so I think Joba will be in the bullpen. What other lights out options will the Yanks have in front of Mo next year besides him?
I wonder if Hughes is secretly jealous of Joba. Before Joba came up it was all about Phil Franchise. He had ALL of the buzz and attention. But since Joba came up NY did a complete 180. I haven’t even heard the nickname Phil Franchise since Joba was called up.
Pat: I’m willing to bet secretly Hughes is thankful. If it weren’t for all the buzz around Joba, a lot more attention would be paid to the not-so-great outings from Hughes. When Phil Hughes had that great start, coupled with Joba’s first inning (1 innings?) in the Show, it got a LOT of attention, and so did he. So I don’t think he’s disappointed. Just my guess though.
Joba will not be in the bullpen next year. he might start the year at AAA so he can have his innings capped for a few months, then he will come up and join the rotation.
“What other lights out options will the Yanks have in front of Mo next year besides him?”
i really hope we’re not having this debate all winter. who knows who will be in the bullpen next year? but that doesn’t mean you put a potential #1 starter in the bullpen just to fill a need.
hmmm,
The Tigers did it with Zumaya and the Red Sox did it with Papelbon. I want him to be in the rotation as well if all of his pitches are as good as they say they are.
Pat, I don’t think Phil is jealous either, he’s probably couting how many rings they could win if they both stay healthy and Yankees.
Here here, hmm.
If a smooth recovery from TJ is at least a year and a half, that means Humberto Sanchez has an outside shot at getting some innings in the second half of next year. At ML level? Probably not. I wouldn’t expect him to be even considered for the rotation on a full-time basis until ’09 at the very very earliest … more likely ’10.
Even that might be optimistic. This was also assuming he doesn’t spend much time in the minors when he recovers, or as much as he normally would have. He came to NY needing some time there, and right now he’s not throwing at all. Having TJ definitely sets him back at least a couple seasons so he’s a long term investment.
If we assume they have a homegrown rotation of Wang, Hughes, Chamberlain and Kennedy in 09 (and assume they all live up to expectation) I’m sure management can sign someone decent for a couple years if they need a 5th arm for the rotation. If by chance Joba gets moved to the bullpen to close (who really knows?) I’m sure they they could find two decent arms. Hopefully they do better than the now-infamous Wright-Pavano signings.
Oh … I really doubt Phil would ever have a problem with (or be jealous of) Joba, Pat.
randy1 –
Mussina’s a different type of pitcher, way different body type, and not every can keep up with Clemens! I do get your point, but since I’m a crossword afficionado as well, I kind of like that Mussina does xwds in his downtime. It really does keep you mentally sharp.
In any event, Clemens’ routine is publicized because it’s quite the endurance drill, isn’t it? But all pitchers (and players) have their own routines, including Mussina.
Should read “not everyone” NOT “not every.” Sorry.
Joel Zumaya is back for Detroit.
Joel vs. Joba (Part I)
J. Brent Cox will be back sometime next year, too, adding another arm to the bullpen mix. I’ve wondered why Moose has not adopted the Clemens workout regimen also – I mean, it wouldn’t hurt to try. With his pitching smarts and added velocity/stamina, he could still be an asset to the Yanks.
Welcome to Detroit, Pete! Hopefully you’ll miss most of the rain. If it’s not raining, it’ll be disgustingly humid, so it’s not going to be good either way.
May I burden someone to refresh me on why we thought so highly of Phil Hughes in the first place? Looking at his first few major league starts (including that 6 inning no hitter), I must say I’m not that impressed.
Chris: Would you be impressed if he weren’t so hyped up? I’m pressed with him as a 21 year old. I, personally, think he was brought up too soon, but I don’t think there was much other choice. He’s got great talent, and he’s got the ability. He almost no-hit a team that just scored 30 runs against a team that has owned the Yankees this season.
Mo is missing plenty of bats look at his stats a K per inning, what is that????
Last night Mo gave up 3 ground ball singles, that is baseball. he looked fine and is still top 5 closers….
Mo is the least of the Yankee problems.. What about some help in the pen, and adios henn or villone? I forgot they are our lefty studs…
“May I burden someone to refresh me on why we thought so highly of Phil Hughes in the first place? Looking at his first few major league starts (including that 6 inning no hitter), I must say I’m not that impressed.”
oh, i don’t know. historical dominance in his ascent through the minor leagues?
he’s 21. who cares if *you* are impressed?
this post is embarrassing.
Does anyone know what pitches are in Whelan’s arsenal??
“historical dominance in his ascent through the minor leagues? ”
This statement is bogus.
oh yeah sure, if you dominate the minor leagues you are *destined* to do the same in the majors.
I got to tell ya, hmmm, two weeks ago, I would have agreed with you. Now? Not so sure.
He has the perfect mentality for the bullpen. If he had an off-season to condition himself to the role, its scary how good he can be.
Plus, they have other young arms in the system to start. I have always believed Kennedy would have a spot in the rotation in 2008. I am even firmer in that belief now with the decline of Mussina. They don’t have anybody like this in the bullpen.
Its not just his stuff. Its his mentality. Its not inconcievable to see him as the heir apparent to Mariano.
My only concern with him as a starter is injury. He has the kind of body, and previous injury history, that gives me a bit of pause re: 200+ innings a year.
You could have a rotation of Wang, Pettitte, Hughes, Clemens (when he comes back in June) and Kennedy in 2008. That would make Joba’s role in the bullpen even more fitting for the team, IMO.
Either way, how great is it to have a kid this good, this young, in the organization?
Joba is a real talent whether he’s a starter or reliever. I am starting to speculate whether he’ll be a top-line starter or the heir apparent to Mo. He seems to have the “go at em” attitidue and stuff to that guy.
I understand that middle relievers and event setup men are a dime a dozen. But a closer is as important as a starter. Without Mo closing in the mid-90′s, we don’t win 4 world series championships.
Bagging on Hughes is stupidity at its finest.
The kid missed almost 3 months with leg injuries. For a power pitcher, that’s a killer.
When you are rehabbing, you aren’t conditioning. You are going to lose a little something.
Even at that, he’s 21, and getting ML hitters out when he isn’t at his best.
Give Hughes an off-season to re-condition himself and he is fine.
Its impossible to compare Hughes to Joba. One guy is pitching one inning a night, the other is starting.
If you looked at Hughes’ first inning in Anaheim Monday night, and that was the only inning he worked, I am sure your impression of him would be different.
The kid is 21, missed almost an entire season, and is helping a team that is in playoff contention. In a major market no less.
Phil Hughes will be just fine.
“oh yeah sure, if you dominate the minor leagues you are destined to do the same in the majors.”
where did anyone say that?
you asked why people were so high on him.
“I understand that middle relievers and event setup men are a dime a dozen. But a closer is as important as a starter.”
would you take Johan Santana and make him a closer?
a closer is not as important as a top flight #1 starter.
Les Paul’s are great guitars but are a lot heavier than your average electric guitar.
Chris –
Phil’s just starting out. Take it easy on him. You’re sounding one of the ones who expects a no-hitter each time out, and if you don’t get what you expect every single day he should get DFA’d immediately. C’mon get real.
Phil’s got all the tools and then some. He’s also 2 years younger than Clemens was when Clemens made his debut. And remember it took Clemens 2 years before he went 24-4 and became the Rocket. If you were a Boston fan back then would you have said the same about Clemens? Before that monster year, his stats and several of his outings weren’t that impressive either. But he definitely had the tools.
When Melky came up a late in ’05 did you want him executed too? It was obvious he had the tools but it was obvious that at 20 years old he was still a little green. Now it’s two years later, he looks like he belongs, it looks like he’ll continue to improve, and he’s still only 22.
I would rather have Joba in the rotation, instead of the ‘pen. He has the potential to be an ace and we need that. We have a lot of candidates that can be our next closer. JB Cox, Whelan, Melancon, Sanchez, etc..
“oh yeah sure, if you dominate the minor leagues you are destined to do the same in the majors.”
No, but anyone that knows even a little about pitching knows that Hughes has great stuff.
Trying to argue that he isn’t going to be good based on the last few starts is ridiculous. He missed half the season with injury and is still building his arm strength now. If you watched the games with an intelligent eye you would see that he actually does have great stuff. His peripherals have been pretty good so far.
“This statement is bogus.”
read this if you have forgotten why people were so high on Phil Hughes:
http://riveraveblues.com/2007/.....il-hughes/
see how his minor league numbers stack up against the best pitching prospects of recent times.
Hughes was as good a prospect as you will likely see.
OK, I am ready to by lynched after this…but…Moose needs to stay in the rotation IF the Yankees are truly going to put a season innings cap on Kennedy or any other minor league pitcher….there is NO WAY you EVER put Igawa in the rotation again….think about it….Igawa, you KNOW is going to stink…and unless Moose lays an egg for say his next 2 starts in a row….Moose is the 2007 Yankees’ Randy Johnson ( flip of a coin ) I’ll take a flip of the coin over Igawa OR blowing out a possible future star’s arm ANY DAY !
Ranting Guy, Melky’s birthday was August 11, so he just turned 23; otherwise I completely agree with ya
At this moment, Joba is a better closer than Mariano. You need 3 outs? Joba will get you 3 outs quickly. I’m not saying he’s going to replace Mariano or that Mo won’t continue to dominate.
Before you guys get on me, I’m not saying I don’t want Mo, but be honest. Ask yourself, do feel more comfortable when Joba comes in or Mo?
Mo may need to reinvent himself as a pitcher. Teams know that he’s going to keep throwing that cutter. They sit on it, make contact, and hope for those bloop singles. String 3 singles, or any combination of singles, walks, and HBP and you might be able to get one to cross the plate. In one run games or tie games (Mo doesn’t like tie games does he?) it changes the dynamic.
Chamberlain has proven he has the mental and pitching stuff to be an excellent closer, although he hasn’t pitched in a tight situation yet.
To grow as a pitcher, he’ll need to be challenged and I think the only place he’ll get that is in the starting rotation. Decisions, decisions. Mo stays on as the closer, but if he starts to decline do you move Joba to that spot? And if Joba goes to the rotation they’re still going to need a reliable setup guy. We really need 3 Jobas.
Humberto and others now has a blueprint to success that he can follow. Hope Humberto uses the opporunity to get healthy, get into good shape, and work hard. Because if you have the right stuff the Yankees will use you, no matter how old you are.
“Without Mo closing in the mid-90’s, we don’t win 4 world series championships.”
well, we actually DID win 1 in 1996 without him closing.
and i am pretty condident the 1998 Yankees would have won the WS with a lesser closer. they were that much better than any other team.
this is not to take anything away from Mo, who is the best ever.
just saying, Mo has basically sat in the bullpen the last 2 years in the playoffs since there wasn’t a lead to hand off to him in the 9th b/c of lousy starting pitching.
the best way to win a game is to shut a team down for the first 7-8 innings.
MGW
Ya caught me snoozing…. I shoulda known he’s a geezer now.
“You could have a rotation of Wang, Pettitte, Hughes, Clemens (when he comes back in June) and Kennedy in 2008. That would make Joba’s role in the bullpen even more fitting for the team, IMO.”
well, i admit i don’t know the answer for 2008 b/c i was assuming Clemens would retire for good. i guess i have no idea what he might do, but i would be surprised if he comes back.
but starting in 2009, with Pettitte gone, Joba needs to be in the rotation provided he shows the necessary durability next season.
SJ44,
I for one think phil can be a great pitcher, but you mention the injury and how that slowed him down. Prior to the injury he had one bad outing and one good one. In spring training he struggled. At aaa I believe his numbers werent as good as his previous year. He is not a Joba where if he misses with his pitch it wont hurt him. He needs that curve ball to be strikes or he is an ordinary pitcher. The Texas game he had control of his pitches and that made him unhittable. Lets hope he regains his control this year.
If you look at Kennedy’s numbers they are actually better than hughes last year but unfortunately there are two guys (JOBA,PHIL)getting all the attention. I think Kennedy doesnt have anymore to prove in the minors and I hope they give him a shot next year.
Im also affraid of that Joba might hurt himself again by being a starter next year. But if they do put him in the rotation, Im glad that he will be pitching with us not against us.
mel, I totally agree with you !
Right now middle and long relief is our concern.Moose and Karstens when he comes up are candidates,but I shudder at the hissy fit Moose will throw if he is indeed asked to go to the pen.
I disagree slightly because starters don’t go 7-8 innings anymore.
Even good starters average approx 6+ innings of work. You still have to finish games and in the AL, that’s a tall order.
Games are won in the 7th and 8th innings in the AL. If you have a great closer (which Mo still is) and have a guy(s) who can shutdown the 7th and 8th innings, its a very, very tough combination.
The Yankees won a WS in ’96 with injured starters (Cone and Key), a rookie (Pettitte) and a basket case (Rogers) because they owned the last third of the game.
You can’t say guys like Whelan, Cox, et al, can be “future closers”. They haven’t shown they can be that in the minors, let alone the majors. They are unknowns. Chamberlain, at least right now, is a “known”.
As I said earlier, its more than stuff, its a mentality. He has it. Its plain as day. You can’t teach it. That’s why its awfully tempting to envision him in that setup role for a year or two.
He could spend the next 2 years being a dominant setup guy to Rivera. At that point, he’s still only 23 years old. Plenty of time to convert him to a starter if need be. Also, used properly, it will be less wear and tear on him.
Its all about shortening the game. If your ’08 rotation consists of Wang, Pettitte, Hughes, Clemens and Kennedy, you have enough to get you to the 6th or 7th in most of their starts. At that point, its about winning the latter part of the game.
IMO, Chamberlain may be that type of weapon. If he is, it makes the Yankees a much, much stronger team if he stays in the bullpen.
I’ll take 3 Jobas, 2 Pettittes and 2 Mos. They only reason I’ll take more Jobas is that he’s younger
Hmmm,
JMO, but Roger plays as long as Andy plays. He also plays where Andy plays. Just how I see it.
I haven’t heard anything that makes me feel differently.
Even at all the games I have been to this summer, the players talk as if its a foregone conclusion that he’s coming back.
I also think he really enjoys working with the young players and I know he has gotten close to Hughes and especially Chamberlain. He and Chamberlain share the same agent and I think he sees little of himself in both kids.
It would surprise me if Roger retired. Perhaps, if they win the World Series he will but, I expect Roger to be a Yankee (at some point) in 2008.
If its between Mussina or Igawa I have to go with Moose. Why is Igawa even being considered. Dont we have anyone else in the minors that is dominating that can come up for a couple starts not named Kennedy? Igawa needs to prove that he can dominate in the minors for an extended period of time. I would not bring him back this year to pitch unless its mopup duty.
I’m sure he is glad that he’s doing so well but seriously… jealousy is human nature. Regardless of what people think even Jeter feels it at times. I should have tweaked my question from do you think he’s jealous to how jealous do you think he is (granted the responses would have been the same since apparently baseball players are invulnerable to the most basic of human emotions lol)
What’s happening before our very eyes is the strange combination of the ascending careers of future stars and the twilight years of past ones.
Moose and even Mo (who’s not done at all) face some tough decisions in the next year or two.
Andy’s a strange cat. He did well, got lost, and is back on track as he continues his famous August run. I say Pettitte’s back next season. Right now he is our de facto ace. And if he has an awesome sub 3.5 ERA in the AL East next season, I think the Yankees and he will entertain a one year contract for ’09. I’d like to see Andy pitch in New Yankee Stadium.
As for Wang, we need to find him a new best friend (hopefully Clemens), have him start smoking again, or find him a hobby.
Is there any chance of Clemens being the Yankees pitching coach in the future? He seems to make pitchers who he takes under his wing better. Thoughts?
Ranting guy- Your still going on about that argument? But if Joba had located it, movement or no movement, it is UNHITTABLE
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GEd3pS1jXJ4
Let’s hope that Roger and Debi don’t get Cingular in the offseason.
SJ44,
Dominant Set-up are less expensive than dominant starters(or even #2 starters). A #2 will cost you about 8-12 Mil via FA, an ace 13+ million. A dominant set-up man(or closer who will set up in NY) 5-8 Million. That’s why Joba should be in rotation. becauce dominant relievers are easier to find than dominant starters.
Texas vs. Seattle,lets hope that Texas saved some runs for them after yesterday.
If Mussina does bad on Monday, you’ll see White or Kennedy get a shot.
SOS,
Clemens has a personal services contract with the Astros that he’ll honor when he’s really retired. lol.
Roger is worth the weight of his Yankees contract.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....8;c_id=mlb
What a game last night. I have to say, I did not expect more than one win in the series and the silver lining even with Hughes’ not winning the first game (the one we thought they had to get) is that the lineup went to town last night against Lackey & Co.
Pete, enjoy Detroit. That was a great article on the Les Paul. If you have some free time while in Detroit, take a 2 hour drive to Kalamazoo, MI to visit the Heritage Guitar plant. Begun in the 1980s by some of the old timers at Gibson (some of whom were laid off), their guitars are the closest in quality to some of those old Les Pauls or semi-hollow models like the ES-335. As a lefty player, I have an even harder time locating good Les Pauls. Still searching.
Also, for some amazing Iraqi food, cruise nearby Dearborn, home of the largest Iraqi community in the USA (and second largest outside Iraq).
Why would he want to honor it? His buddy was trash talked when he left.
S.O.S.27–I think Clemens signed a contract with the Astros that takes effect when he officially retires. I can’t confirm it though.
If and when we make the playoffs and had to face a central team, would you prefer to go against Cleveland which has 2 aces on its team or Detroits high powered offense and Zumaya in the pen? I cant make my mind up who to root for.
Jennifer,
I don’t know what the deal is, but when Roger was talking about his difficult decision this season he mentioned it as one of his ties to the Houston organization.
I think keeping Joba as a reliever is almost a waste of his talent. He is a special pitcher and he has high velocity for 9 innings. If he can throw in the high 90s for 8 innings, why waste his arm in the pen? Most relievers are failed starters. If he has what it takes to start, you make him a starter. Even if the starter thing doesnt pan out, you know he has a role in the bull pen
“If you look at Kennedy’s numbers they are actually better than hughes last year but unfortunately there are two guys (JOBA,PHIL)getting all the attention. I think Kennedy doesnt have anymore to prove in the minors and I hope they give him a shot next year.”
there is an age difference.
Phil was 19 and 20 last year in AA.
Joba and Kennedy both pitched in college and should have been expected to handle A ball. Joba will turn 22 in a few weeks and Kennedy will turn 23 in December.
i am not saying Kennedy isn’t a great prospect, he absolutely is. i am very excited about Kennedy.
i am just saying there is a reason that Hughes got more hype with similar numbers, and that reason is the age difference.
Just weighing in, it would seem like a shame to put Joba in the pen permanently. I understand the 7/8 inning guys are important, but they are also more common than high-quality starters. Iow, you can find semi-good middle relief in free agency, but how often can you find a kid who has this potential to start? Joba also has 4 pitches, and he’s only using two right now, whereas J. Zumaya, to whom he’s most frequently compared, seems more of a straight-up fireballer. A 4 pitch, starting Joba at the 1 slot in the rotation, with Wang, Hughes, Pettitte, Clemens behind him next year? Now THAT’s filthy.
In re: Igawa or Moose, if the Yankees bring up Igawa, so help me God, I don’t know what I will do. Moose sucks, yes. But Igawa is consistently awful. If they let that pouty-faced son of bitch start one more game this season…Oh man…
Here is the thing with Hughes. A lot of Yankee fans do not have the patience to develop a pitching prospect. Everyone expects an 8 inning shutout each time he takes the mound. Those are high expectations for any pitcher, nonetheless a 21 year old. You people also have to remember he had 2 pretty serous injuries for a pitcher. He relies on his lower body. After 2-3 months on the DL, you cant expect him to come back and bein mid season form at 100% health. Its just unfair. You have to wait and see.
s.o.s. 27, if the option is to face Cleveland or Detroit in a five game series (where you have 2 aces or a good pen and offense), I would face Detroit and the pen/offense any day. I think this also sheds light on the question of Joba in the pen. A five game series against Cleveland would be very difficult, as you’re looking at Sabathia twice if the series goes to five, and Carmona once. Detroit is far more beatable in a five gamer.
Also, I think a good way to look at Joba (pen v. starting) is where he has the most upside/replacement value. To replace Joba as a reliever is far, far easier than Joba as a starter, if he pitches in the same ballpark as how he pitches now.
If the Yankees make the playoffs as the wildcard we will most likely play whoever wins the division between the Angels and Mariners.
saying joba is a better closer than mo is ridiculous. Joba has 0 career saves. He has never been in that position before. what makes mo so great, aside from his obvious pitching ability, is his ability to handle the pressure and failure. no way did you just say a rookie, with 11 innings out of the bullpen is a better closer than mo, probably the greatest closer ever.
joba is a starter. in the minors he was hitting 97 in the 7th, when he can maintain his velocity that long, it is a waste of his endurance to pitch him out of the pen.
pen next year should have mo edwar and viz, hopefully britton, maybe ohlendorf and hopefully not farnsworth, and hopefully we can pick up someone decent from the left side. rotation should have joba, pettite, wang, hughes, and kennedy.
The fear with Joba starting is him hurting his arm with the innings he would have to pitch. I see him in the same situation as Paplebon, he was supposed to start but he did so good they kept him in the pen. I believe Pap would have blown his arm out this year as a starter. So if its between a half season of Joba due to a possability of an injury or a full year with a fresh arm(offcoarse with Torre not overusing him)give me the next closer.
We are fortunate to have Kennedy to plug into that vacancy.
if and when we make the playoffs, i think we would face the Angels, being that we get in as a wildcard
Sos- Actually, you can make the case that relieving is more stressful on the arm than starting.
“Sos- Actually, you can make the case that relieving is more stressful on the arm than starting.”
If thats a fact, than I take it back and look forward to Joba starting.
PBL-You do realize the significance of your projected potential rotation fo next year, right?
“Here is the thing with Hughes. A lot of Yankee fans do not have the patience to develop a pitching prospect.”
amen. think about how a lack of patience has allowed some people here to argue for:
1. removing Joba’s restrictions
2. calling up Kennedy for an emergency start with zero regard for whether his coaches feel like that is best for his development or not
3. trade Horne or Kennedy 25 innings of Eric Gagne
it’s as if some of you guys haven’t been watching for the last 3 years and have completely forgotten what happens when you have to get all of your pitchers on the free agent market.
this is what you get:
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxe.....ET2006.htm
Fritz
Yanks swept the Indians this year.The YANKEE MOTTO is now.HAVE NO FEAR, JOBA IS HERE!
If Ohlendorf can get his off speed stuff to catch up with his sinking fastball, he would be lethal. Those pitches have been inconsistent up to this point.
I just hope Britton will be in the ‘pen some day soon. He is just wasting away in AAA for no reason at all.
Iggy might be an option if Mussina screws up, but I doubt he’ll get another chance, IMO. He hasn’t done anything in AAA that should lead Cash to believe that he’s worthy, at least for this year. It should be Steven White or Kennedy. I think Kennedy was given an extra day off this week, so says Chad Jennings. I would have to go with Steven White. He’s a forgotten man, but has the tools to be successful in the majors.
“I see him in the same situation as Paplebon, he was supposed to start but he did so good they kept him in the pen”
i think the problem was that in spring training this year, papelbon’s velocity started dropping significantly after 3 innings.
Joba has been clocked at 97 after 7 innings this year.
think Verlander.
If we’re wildcard, I’ll take our chances against anyone but Shelley Duncan. as long as Shelley doesn’t win a division (I hear he’s in first place to take the AL West), we’ll be fine.
Anyone have 660 on? What were they saying about Schilling? He says he’d play for Tampa bay. ?? Am I going nuts??
“Yanks swept the Indians this year.The YANKEE MOTTO is now.HAVE NO FEAR, JOBA IS HERE!”
i don’t think they actually saw Sabathia though. it would be different in a playoff series.
Either way, its a fun debate to have about him. To have a kid who could be a #1 starter or the successor to the greatest closer of all-time puts the Yankees in a GREAT position for the future.
Who would have thunk it a few years ago when their farm system may have been the worst in MLB?
Why do people always keep saying that the Red Sox took Papelbon out of the rotation to be the closer because they needed a closer and not a starter? It’s just not true! I had the luxury of watching ALL of Papelbon’s starts for the Red Sox and he was electric for about 3 innings and then he’d die every time.
Every game I watched he would blow through the batters like he does now closing but then he would give up hit after hit after hit in the 5th and 6th innings. He doesn’t have the endurance to go the distance and that’s why they placed him as the closer.
They said last year Hughes reminded people of Clemens. I think Joba is closer to a Clemens type than Hughes. Yesterdays game reminded me of a young Clemens throwing heat and batters knowing they were out before the stepped up to the plate. Its exciting to see us have home grown powerhouse pitchers.
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/08.....love.shtml
On talk of Joba eventually becoming heir to Mo’s throne or working his way into the rotation … I’m torn. A starter who can be as dominant as he is in short spurts would be great. Good starters are really important to have, especially if they can dominate into the 7th or 8th. But he is making a pretty damn good impression in relief isn’t he?
NYR Just having some fun thats all, but I’ll still hold my ground that it would eventually get timed (Vlad had the timing on 100mph yesterday) and the location eventually guessed.
I’m not implying that the league would hit .300 off 100mph straightballs either. Hitters are up there guessing and working pitchers for location too. If a guy like Vlad’s looking for it in a location where he thinks he’s being set up for, he’s shown that he can get around on it. If it isn’t straight, it makes his job a lot harder.
BTW, Joba located it pretty good. And Vlad guessed pretty good but he could only foul tip it straight back because Joba’s not throwing straightballs.
Anybody?
I’d rather see Joba become a starter and win 300 games than save 500 and close.
You can find a closer somewhere. (obviously you cant find riveras but that goes without saying)
But its hard to find aces.
We may have two at 21.
jennifer:
Read Heymans column on SI.com about Schilling and those D rays comments.
Funny stuff
Hughes is 21 yrs old.
He’s a rookie.
Relax. I know we were all expecting no hitters everytime out but that won’t be the case. He is good and will be very good.
Who knows. It may all click for him very soon because if hes on he can be dominating.
I still think the biggest mistake this front office has made in the last ten years, and they have made plenty, was letting Pettitte leave.
We win two more titles if he doesn’t leave.
You know most people forget Hughes is almost a full year younger than Joba.
“I still think the biggest mistake this front office has made in the last ten years, and they have made plenty, was letting Pettitte leave.”
If Pettitte doesn’t leave, the Yankees don’t draft Hughes.
Looks like Pettitte, Clemens, Wang for the Sox series. Nice.
Sos- Look at these. This is why they compare Hughes to Rocket
http://www.pitchingclips.com/p.....lemens.htm
If you scroll down, there is a side by side of Huhges and Clemens
http://www.pitchingclips.com/p.....hughes.htm
and I think I’ve got tickets to the Clemens game in the Sox series
“I still think the biggest mistake this front office has made in the last ten years, and they have made plenty, was letting Pettitte leave.”
I think we got Hughes with houstons pick. So it wasnt that bad.
Sos- Look at these. This is why they compare Hughes to Rocket
http://www. pitchingclips.com/players/roger_clemens.htm
If you scroll down, there is a side by side of Huhges and Clemens
http://www. pitchingclips.com/players/phil_hughes.htm
With Joba’s repertoire and ability to keep velocity into the late innings, I agree: put him into the rotation for next year. Still, I agree with SJ on the mental toughness idea; seems like Joba has the right mentality to be a closer. What do y’all think about Humberto becoming a closer when he’s back?
re: facing cleveland or detroit in postseason
i’d rather face cleveland. tough to guess how we’d do against sabathia with such small sample sizes against him, but jeter, arod, and posada seem to have decent numbers against him. i’d take my chances with the rest of ‘em. also swept cleveland in *both* series this year. bullpens: both have sub-par closers with crazy save numbers, but cleveland doesn’t have anything close to zumaya. if we sweep detroit this weekend, maybe i’ll reconsider my position.
2 titles are the Hou pick?
And who is to say Hughes wouldnt have dropped to our pick since teams were obviously afraid to sign him.
At every level, Hughes has struggled in the beginning. Then he figures it out, makes adjustments, and dominates. That’s the sign of a good pitcher. That’s the sign of a smart pitcher.
I want the Hughes who used to not let anyone advance past second. I want vintage Mo everytime out. WAAAAA! I want them now!
Who cares who we face in the post season?
Can we get there first?
We are all ChiSox and Rangers Fans tonight….I’m gonna go out and buy hats (joke)
Sos- Click the link on my name and go to Clemens. There is a side by side of Rocket and Phil. You will see why they compare the 2
5 hits between Cleveland & Detroit in a scoreless game. Robertson vs. Westbrook. Pitcher’s duel or scuffling offenses? Maybe a pitcher’s duel. Robertson’s at about 10 pitches per inning and neither pitcher has walked anybody through 6.5 innings.
The only thing better than the resulting draft pick from Pettitte’s leaving was the pick we got from losing Tom Gordon. With it the Yanks drafted none other than Joba Chamberlain.
Brings a tear to my eye……
You people have to chill out a tad when talking about young pitchers.
They’re going to have struggles. It’s part of the process and part of how they make adjustments.
The good ones do. They thrive on it. The weak ones don’t and end up in Pittsburgh or Kansas City.
I’ve seen more than enough great things from Hughes not be worried in the slightest.
He’s our 4th starter. We can’t expect miracles from a 4th starter. Let him pitch and leave him alone.
Go NYR,
THANKS
The first expert to chime in on our morning discussion:
Mike (NYC): Play Cashman for a minute…Joba a starter or Mariano successor?
Keith Law: (2:20 PM ET ) Starter. Four-pitch guy, holds his velo, big pitchers’ frame. No way I give that up.
That site is awesome
Why couldn’t some team sign Villone last yr???
Bob Michael, lovin’ the enthusiasm, but a 6’6” lefty Sabathia is not something we’re going to want to see on the mound on game 1 and 5. Of course, as someone pointed out, the only way this could happen would be if a) we took the AL East and b) Detroit took the Central but had a worse record than the Angels/Mariners (winner of the AL West). The other way it could happen would be if we won the wild card, and Detroit ended up with a better record than LA/Sea (winner of the AL West, which could be Texas, my new favorite Orange-Bird killer)
Keith Law is also of the firm belief that Ian Kennedy is a 4 starter.
Nothing in his stats or stuff say 4th starter for Kennedy.
If he knew anything he’d still be working for the Blue Jays or some other team.
Not blogging on ESPN.
is that your site Go NYR?
it loaded slowly and it looked like Mo and Johnson were throwing at each other on the main page.
Then suddenly, jeff weaver popped up in between them out of nowhere. priceless.
nope
I know that we lost 2 of 3 to the angels. But I like that people were saying our offense would slow down when we face good pitching. Yet we happened to score 6, 9, and 8 vs. a very strong pitching staff. We keep talking about pitching why not just slug our way to the SERIES.
saucy- I typed the link up but it said awaiting moderation so I used a loophole
Hmm…looks like either I am Keith Law or just as smart. Not sure if that’s a good thing.
Lanny,
That may be a case, but when someone asked if Ian Kennedy could outperform Mussina, Law replied that even Ted Kennedy after happy hour could outpitch Mike right now. Man’s got some baseball knowledge. lol.
Hey frits
What team that is of playoff caliber doesn’t have someone like Sabathia for game 1???
There is a reason why teams win 90 games.
Mrs. Mussina could out perform Michael right now.
You can’t get scared of pitcxhing matchups in the playoffs. You have to hope your pitchers are up to the task and your hitters come to play and the pen is ready because we have seen it way too many times.
No matter how great starters are it always comes down to the pen.
Hey, Maybe Stone Farnsworth or Shelley Duncan could do a spot start.
Lanny – the Tigers, for one. The question was whether we would rather face the Tigers and their superior offense/bullpen (superior vis-a-vis the Indians) or the Indians and their 1-2 combo pitching staff (superior to the Tigers). So, I was suggesting that Sabathia-Carmona-Sabathia in a 1-2-5 set up in a five game series is far more formidable than facing the Tigers and Verlander (shaky at best lately) and Bonderman (Ibid).
But hey, thanks for the lesson on what it takes to 90 games. I really had no clue.
200 innings is much more valuable than 65.
Plus, it is much more value for the pitcher in terms of dollars.
When average starters now get 10 mill. What do aces get? 18 plus.
Great closers only make 10.
what it takes to *win* 90 games.
That Verlander guy is such a slouch, frits.
Great thing that we beat him last yr in the playoffs right???
Also the fact that the final 3 in the Tigers pen Rodney, Zumaya, Jones are 10 times better than anything Cleveland trots out there.
Not to mention the superior offense that Detroit has.
Get a clue. You don’t play the “id rather play” card because it doesn’t work out like that.
Everyone and his mother would have chosen Det over Minny last yr and look what happend.
I’m so scared of Sabathia.
What is his playoff record again??????
If Cleveland scares you than you haven’t watched them play this season.
For the record, I’m not scared of the Cleveland Indians that we just finished sweeping. All I’m saying is that I’d rather face the Tigers in a five game series than the Indians. What is so f*cking idiot to understand about this?
Id much rather see the Indians. They do have good starters but they dont have nearly as much offense or nearly as good a bullpen as the Tigers. But that said, If we get the Wildcard, we will probably get Anaheim
the correct answer to would you want to face cleveland or detroit in this postseason?
yes
Having to use curse words in a post defending your point?
Lame beyond belief.
I’d much rather face Cleveland. It’s not even a thought.
People like frits are always enlightening. Only the dumb and thoughtless have to resort to using profanity to get their “points” across.
I think anyone that wants to play Det would be the “f’ing idiot”.
Especially at the back end of that pen and the stud hitters in the middle of the lineup.
for the record though, we’re looking at a 6.41 ERA for Verlander over his last 5 starts (apparently that scares Lanny) v. a 2.43 ERA for Carmona and a 2.27 for Sabathia (over their last five starts). Maybe you like facing tough pitchers, but I’d much rather face Verlander and his three or four total playoff wins and 6.41 ERA than Sabathia and Carmona.
No team should scare us.
We should scare the daylights out of everyone else.
4 good starters. No weak link lineup. Joba. Viz. Mo. Experience. Chemistry. Going in ready.
We are the team that should scare everyone.
I doubt that Sabathia and Carmona are Johnson/Schilling.
If you could come up with a valid reason to dispute what I’m saying rather than peg me as a member of some strange class (“people like frits”), then I’d be glad to listen. I know that Detroit has a good lineup, and a great pen, (even though Sheff is hurt and Zumaya has been hurt), but I think in a 5 game series the dominance of Sabathia and Carmona frightens me far more than the Tigers.
And using profanity doesn’t discredit the validity of an argument.
Didn’t Verlander just beat us???? And didnt we just beat Carmona??
Where is your logic, meat?
I guess pitchers are now defined by their last 5 starts. Not wins and losses.
Thanks genuis!
Sorry for all the 6 year olds who were offended by profanity. I’ll put Beauty and the Beast back on and pipe down because I think it’s nap time
Ummmm frits
You basically just answered your own question.
Better lineup. Better bullpen. Comparable starters. Even better if Rogers comes back healthy.
Obviously, you haven’t seen Cleveland play this year. They can’t hit and the pen stinks.
Winning isn’t based on 2 starters. Ask Carmona how that is lately.
No, Verlander didn’t beat us, Moose beat us. And yes, we did just beat Carmona but my argument has been that I don’t want to face them (esp. Sabathia, who we did not face) in a five game series. What’s so wrong with that? I’d much rather face a shaky Verlander, even shakier Bonderman and god knows who for 3 and 4.
People that use profanity are just proving their lower intelligence levels. These people lack any kind of proper vocabulary. So go right on ahead frits and curse away.
Did Verlander not get the win in that game???
I forgot that a pitchers job is to WIN the game not go for stats.
My bad frits!
For God’s sake, I recognize that Detroit has a better lineup and pen, and I think we would beat Cleveland in a five game series. I just think we would be Detroit more handily and easily than Cleveland.
Why would anyone want to play Detroit?
Late innings. Close game. Zumaya, Rodney, Miner, Jones or Borowski?
Are you out of your freakin mind?
Thanks for arguing against yourself now frits.
No, bro, people who use profanity don’t automatically prove their stupidity or demonstrate that they have a lower vocabulary, per se.
Why does it make you so angry that I would rather face Detroit? Are you a Tigers fan? Do you feel snubbed??
I vote for rather playing Det.
I’m not even scared of Anaheim.
What pitcher scares you there?
Shields has been terrible.
Spiers isn’t good.
All they got is K-Rod out there.
It’s very lame that anyone would have to use insults or curse at people on a baseball blog.
Shows a ton of immaturity.
I’d rather face Cleveland. We swept them twice. Once with the likes of Chase Wright making his first start above AA.
I’ve said from the beginning that the Tigers have a better lineup and pen. I have also said that in a short series, bad starting pitching is more dangerous and can have the potential to swing the entire series. If you have guys who are capable of completely dominating 3 games in a five game series, you run the risk of getting screwed. With Verlander and Bonderman performing the way they are right now, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to prefer to face them 1-2 than Sabathia and Carmona.
If it is, the reason won’t be because I used profanity, it will be that the strength of Detroit’s pen outweighs the strength of those respective starters for cleveland. if that’s the case, then i don’t necessarily agree, but i think it’s a reasonable argument. i’d appreciate the same consideration.
in re: profanity, get off it already. go out in the world, or better yet, go to a home game in the bronx and see if people avoid profanity.
I tune people right out once they delve into the attacks and the cussing.
Shows a lack of upbringing too.
Give me the Angels. Then the Sox. Then the D backs.
I want to take down all teams. Revenge.
And when I go out in the world I don’t want to be associated with punks and trash that have to use profanity in the way they speak.
It’s not english. It’s not mature. It’s not classy.
And anyone that uses it on their normal way of speaking has issues.
I’m sure that every MLB player who screams profanity after a bad strike 3 call or close call at home totally agrees with you, Yank Fan, et al,: if you use profanity not only are you lower-class, but any argument or statement you might make is automatically invalid due to the presence of said profane modifiers.
There is a big difference from saying Sh*t when Moose gives up another hit and calling some a f idiot.
If you don’t understand that point you weren’t raised right.
God help you.
Bro, if I hurt your feelings by saying that then I honestly apologize. I got offended because you and others acted like I have no brain because I’d rather face Cleveland.
To me, that kind of close-mindedness that suggests that anyone who thinks differently from you is not only stupid but in need of divine intervention (and I recognize the irony of me saying this) shows far more classlessness than the actual use of profanity.
Don’t attack someone’s upbringing because of their cursing.
and um…
LET’S GO YANKEES!
Hey, I’ll try not to use it, and you make sure you never go to a Yanks home game, K?
Cleveland is one team I would love facing.
They don’t match up well with us at all. Even with those two good pitchers.
Be hesitant to use great when they haven’t done it in the post season.
Let’s forget this spat ever happened. It’s an embarrassment. Too bad there’s no game tonight.
I have season tickets and I never hear any fans cursing in and insulting people around them.
I guess people that have some brains and speak proper english don’t sit where you sit frits.
Maybe if you actually spoke like a normal human being and didn’t use insults when speaking to others.
Andrea,
I’m sorry but a persons vocabulary and how they treat others is a direct reflection of their upbringing.
Are you serious?
I love all people. I don’t discriminate based on class.
Lanny – sorry, but maybe you have earplugs in. If you really have that much of a problem with profanity, maybe you shouldn’t ever go to a bar or a movie.
How does someone defend someone who curses at people?
You Michael Vicks attorney too?
Lanny and fritz,
I owe you two an apology I brought the topic up and caused all this. Please accept my apology.
I think I have the answer,lets just play the angels then boston then the mets and pop open the champaign.
In all seriousness if Rogers comes back like last year then I would want Cleveland.If not then I would try to avoid dual aces of Cleveland.
I might change my mind tomorrow though. Thats why I brought this up. Tough call.
What bars are you going to that have people cursing and insulting people at all times?
You know, you can have those places. I’ll stick to the classy establishments that actually have respect for others. Where people speak english and converse like real people.
Lanny, I sat in box seats against the Red Sox in May (Pettitte v. Schilling) and I heard some of the most profane things hurled at the Red Sox that I have ever heard. I’m not saying that you do hear profanity in your seats, so don’t try to tell me what I hear.
I’m through discussing this. Lanny, I’m sure your mom will totally back you up when you lumber upstairs to tell her about this mean guy on the internet. Frits shall be no more.
You did nothing of the sort SOS27.
The topic has nothing to do with frits using profanity and insulting others.
It’s not your fault that he’s a not a nice person.
Lanny–that’s true, but this isn’t the forum for that discussion. We all have a problem with some of the things people say, but it never has to be such a drawn on thing like this. Just say hey, could you cool it with the language? and if he says no, then you tell Pete or something if you’re that concerned about it.
I’m with you though, Frits. I’m not sure why, but we play well against Cleveland. Maybe Sabathia would shut us down, but that’s only 1 pitcher–even if we faced him twice.
Couldn’t resist just one more
I’m pretty sure I apologized for saying what I said, but oh well! What’s hilarious about this whole thing is that I don’t even feel that strongly about Cleveland. At this point I’ll just be glad to make it to the playoffs.
If you had a mother and father that actually cared about you, frits, maybe you wouldn’t have such a foul and profanity spewing mouth and degenerate personality. Too bad they didn’t raise you right and respectful and with a little class.
Have a good day, frits at those bars where everyone insults everyone else and curses up a storm. Sounds like a blast!
Uh oh, he used “degenerate”. I think we’re dealing with a bona-fide wacko here…haha!
When is the forum right, Andrea?
If I see that here I’ll acknowledge it and bring it up and point it like. Like with frits here.
If someone is going to use foul language and insult people it shouldn’t be overlooked. I’m not one to run to the teacher. These people should be held accountable for using profanity and trying to insult others who are trying to have a good baseball discussion.
I cannot stand personal attacks from commenters here and anywhere else.
Real easy to sit behind a computer and attack people from the comforts of a basement.
Lanny–thatis what I’m talking about. That kind of thing is a really hurtful thing to say. And it’s a lot worse than just using some kind of random profanity.
calling someone a “f*ing idiot” is a lot differnet than bringing someone’s family life into it. That’s an awful thing to do.
How exactly are you going to “hold me responsible”? What are you going to do, beside condemn me as degenerate, e-stone me?
Guys cant we all just get along. Remember we’re all family here(EXCLUDING TROLLS OFFCOARSE).
Changing the subject, it looks like Zumaya is pitching in the 10th inning(not doing so well). Hopefully they go 20 and burn out Zumaya and everyone else in the pen. Then we go in there starting tomorrow and sweep 4 games. Ruin there playoff chances like they did us last year. How’s that sound?
Why?
It’s obvious that people that use language like that didn’t have the upbringing that they should have. They weren’t taight respect. They weren’t schooled on a proper way of talking.
If people are going to use profanity and insult others they should and everyone else should be able to hear why they do what they do.
This has all been very unfair to my mother and my father. It is not their fault that they just crawled out of the primordial soup. They barely learned how to use utensils, how are they supposed to teach me the finer points of “class”???
And apparently you weren’t taught that “taught” is spelled “taught”, not “taight”…but it’s cool, I won’t hold your parents responsible.
I’m again embarrassed that I even participated in this conversation. Time to move on.
They obviously didn’t do their jobs when their son or daughter is using profanity and insulting other people.
But I wish you well. Maybe you can recover on your own and still become a good human being.
I will root for you, frits.
1-0 Cleveland
Zumaya gave up the run. Id take Joba over him anyday. Joba will be the first pitcher ever to go to the h.o.f. with a zero e.r.a.
scratch that 3-0
Joba over Zumaya?
Yes, sir.
I’m embarrassed you had to curse and insult people, frits.
Oh, I get it! You were being a parody! Brilliant work, bravo, bravo!
How does someone like you know parody and satire and sarcasm, frits????
THere is usually no profanity or cursing and they actually speak proper english when they do that. That seems to be above you especially with all those cursing bars you go to.
But seriously, I wish you the best of luck changing your ways in becoming a good person.
I hope you make it.
Jesus frits give it a rest already.
You can’t curse at someone and expect everyone to be cool with it.
“Cursing bars”???
How dare you use such foul and profane language ‘martin s”!
I curse like a sailor, at times, but I still feel I am a respectful person and the people in my life would agree with me that I am a good person. I am a very well-educated person with 2 degrees working on my third. How people choose to type on an internet message board is no indication of them as a person.
ANYWAY.
as I said before and no one caught on…
LET’S GO YANKEES!!!
This is my last post, but the only one hanging on to it is that dude, who keeps calling me degenerate even though I apologized. Was it ill-advised? Yeah. I just wasted an hour of my life arguing with someone who was better fit for 17th century Britain. Was it that big of a deal?
F*** no!
Hey guys PETE has a new subject on who’s americas team. Lets jump on board.
“Andrea
August 23rd, 2007 at 4:02 pm
I curse like a sailor”
Andrea rules!
Hey stop thinking playoffs,we have to make it first…you are all gonna jinx the team we love.Thanks to A.Pettite.
About our ptiching in the NEAR future.Pettite,Wang,JOBA,Hughes,Kennedy…Looks Great,but we must get a closer for next year.Mariano will be a perfect setup though.
Anyone that has to use personal insults and curse at a fellow blogger is lacking in maturity most of all.
I wouldn’t brag, Andrea, about using profanity. That’s nothing to be proud of.
Thank you for the condescending comment Wayne. Next!
Andrea, roger that, regardless of what stuffed shirts have to say. Rock on!!