Yankees gain ground in both races
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Sep 17, 2007 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
Big (if tedious) victory for the Yankees tonight as they now lead the Tigers by 3.5 games and trail the Red Sox by only 3.5 games.
I got home expecting the game to be over and it was the seventh inning. Then I saw Kyle Farnsworth do his thing in the ninth. Joe Torre has to be furious that he needed to use Mariano Rivera for two batters.
But the way Farnsworth was pitching, that game was going to get away and they needed to drop the magic number to nine.
Hope Mo can make it to October at this rate
Krazy Kyle was killing me tonight, good lord was that terrible. Glad they held on, although it never should have gotten to that point.
Krazy Kyle was a victim of not being used for a week. He has been a better pitcher lately. The Yanks are going to need him, Joe has to do a better job managing the BP. VIZ pitched too many innings. Moose scares me tmrw with the BP so depleted. I have a feeling we’ll see Igawa tmrw…I hope that the Yanks score a ton of runs
Cash has the whole offseason to trade Krazy Kyle – it has to be done!
Mo stopped warming up at one stage to watch Farnsworth; I am not sure whether to believe the remark made on YES that Mo, ‘only needs 10 pitches to warm up’. That first pitch to Huff looked as if he could have done a with a bit longer.
Still, a win is a win is a win.
If Mussina falters badly enough early in tomorrow night’s game we’re bound to see some of the second tier “kids” – i.e. Clippard, DeSalvo, etc. I can’t see Torre throwing Viz and the rest of the “trusted” crew out there for a blowout…
Okay where that Zapruder film for Mo getting hit by ball in bullpen? I call for payback.
“Link”:http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09.....ref=slogin
thank you VOIII!
_Krazy Kyle was a victim of not being used for a week. He has been a better pitcher lately. The Yanks are going to need him, Joe has to do a better job managing the BP._
Have you and I been watching the same team? How is this Torre’s fault?
Perhaps you’ve forgotten that Torre wanted to use him last week with both Joba and Viz unavailable and he couldn’t because of Farnsworth’s “stiff neck.”
Mo has bad numbers against Huff; but he got the job done!
I, for one, think we should use Ohlendorf a bit more with multiple-run leads in the latter innings. He might help save Mo’s arm a bit!
kyle was unavailable for 3 or more days with his neck boo boo..
he is there 4th best option that only shows you how bad there pen is..
kyle stinks and besides that is a jerk..
”
Bob Sheppard, the longtime public address announcer at Yankee Stadium, missed the game with laryngitis. He is expected back later this week.”
From the ESPN.com game notes.
GET WELL SOON BOB! YANKEEDOM NEEDS YOU!
How old is Bob Sheppard? Anyone know?
Damn is the magic number really nine??
Peter
Don’t blame Farnsworth for the ninth inning tonight, blame Torre. The ninth inning tonight was a prime example of how Torre doesn’t know how to manage a bullpen. Farnsworth shouldn’t have been in there to begin with. Torre was being cute, thinking “Oh I’ll give Farnsworth some work. Heck, we’re up by 5 runs…he couldn’t possibly screw that up, could he?” Well Farnsworth certainly did and Torre obviously didn’t ask himself “What if Farnsworth sucks?” Torre put the Yanks in position to WASTE Mo and worse than that, put Mo in a position to get hurt. Bringing Mo in there with a 4-run lead was equivalent to leaving A-Rod in a game where the Yanks are up 15-2 in the 7th.
Bruney should’ve been in there. First, he didn’t work Sunday night. Second, while he’s not better than Mo, he’s better than Farnsworth. Third, I’d choose Bruney because I don’t want to burn Mo, I’ve already used Viz and Ramirez, I can’t use Joba, I don’t trust Villone, and no way am I going to Henn, Britton, Wright, Clippard, or Farnsworth, and I like Ohlendorf but didn’t like the homerun he served up the other day.
Cashman should institute “Mo Rules”: No using Mo with a lead of 4 or more runs when the tying run is not at the plate cuz that’s what Torre did tonight (he brought Mo in up 8-4 with
2 men on).
Kyle Farnsworth pitched like Kyle Farnsworth tonight. Its not Joe Torre’s fault that Kyle Farnsworth is no good. I don’t know how anyone could think the last month of good Farnsworth trumps the previous year and a half of bad Farnsworth.
Bob Sheppard is at LEAST 98.
Nice win. I’m a little concerned about the bullpen. Outside of Mo, Viz and Joba, there’s no one I’m comfortable with out there. Bruney, Ramirez and Farnsworth are unpredictable. Would be nice to give Ohlendorf a chance and (while I can’t believe I’m saying this), Villone can be effective at times.
BBrian BBruney? I see no way that could possibly go BBadly.
No reason for Torre to take Farnsworth out when he did. The tying run wasn’t even at the plate. Rivera could have used a day off after throwing so many pitches the night before and getting hit on the hand. Maybe if the go-ahead run was at the plate, you take Kyle out – but if he can’t hold a 5 run lead and get 1 out, then we’ve got really big problems going in to the post-season with only 3 reliable relievers.
_Bruney should’ve been in there. First, he didn’t work Sunday night. Second, while he’s not better than Mo, he’s better than Farnsworth._
Is this the same Bruney who walked the bases loaded in the 9th inning last week with a 10-2 lead?
Yeah, that’s a great idea. Bring in the only guy who could walk the ballpark faster than Farnsworth.
Let me just say thank you for not being the Yankee manager.
Blame Torre:
My little sister’s 10-year old coed team needs a new coach. With your expertise you sound like the right person for the job.
Another thing:
I could care less that Farnsworth has had good outings since late last month, the guy can’t be trusted for his overall body of work. He choked and showed he’s made of nothing tonight, this is it. You saw the true Farnsworth tonight, the only positive of his outing and hopefully another positive is he never throws another pitch for the Yankees again. Besided which is attitude su cks and he’d have never run his mouth about Clemens if he knew he wasn’t due what he was due this and next year. I don’t ever want to see him in a Yankee game for the rest of this season or in a Yankee uniform after this year. The Yanks will clear $11M from no longer having to pay Jaret Wright, Javier Vasquez, and Randy Johnson (they had to pay them $4M, $3M, and $2M respectively) and letting go of $2M Jose Veras. If they have to release Farnsworth and eat his entire $5.75M salary for 2008, so be it. Consider it like paying Wright and R.J. $2M this year. Farnsworth cannot take up a slot in the ’08 Yanks’ bullpen, he just can’t. Offer him and $4.75M to whoever would take him for a year and a mil and be done with it, cuz he truly is Farnsworthless at this point.
THE GIUSEPPE FRANCO??!!
I know you wouldn’t put your name on the line for just any post….
Retarded move by Torre. If he didn’t get the second out, sure. But to bring in Rivera who yesterday had a number finger and pitched an inning where he had erratic control for one out?
(-. . –. .- – .. …- .. – -.– .-. ..- .-.. . …),
its great to see someone use morse code in this day in age…kudos.
How can anyone fault Farnsworth? He hasn’t pitched in a week!
The fans that booed him are morons.
I had some fun with this last night…here’s the daily SoSH affirmation, or, in other words, how a fan base can rationalize to themselves that their team isn’t that good. Enjoy the spin:
One aspect I like about the coming playoff season is that no one AL team is a prohibitive favorite. I’m glad we don’t have to worry about how the Sox are ever going to be able to topple a juggernaut, the way it felt when we were facing those late ’80′s A’s or mid ’90′s Tribe teams. And there’s pressure that comes when you’re rooting for a team with high expectations. I try not to get caught up worrying that the Sox don’t have all the answers this year, and simply appreciate how fortunate we are that our team has a decent shot at a world title.
I LOVE IT…we go into the playoffs thinking, bring anybody one, we’re ready. they go in thinking “I’m glad we’re not the favorites anymore…that’s too much pressure”. AHAHAHA
sorry I meant Bring Anybody ON, and I mean it, too.
Guiseppe Franco -Cut the cr ap bottom line is Bruney > Farnsworth thus Bruney should’ve been in there for the ninth. Thankfully YOU aren’t the Yankee manager cuz you’d rather go with Farnsworth than Bruney. You’re a joke.
Miguel-Real simple dumbo: Yanks up 8-3, you bring in Bruney not Farnsworthless, period end of story case closed. Bruney’s sub-1 ERA from last year alone should’ve given him the ball. Again, not as good as Mo but better than Farnsworth. My next choice is Villone cuz even though he su cks, he doesn’t su ck anywhere close to as badly as Farnsworthless.
Two Farnsworthless defenders, that’s a first. Or is it the Torre Can Do No Wrong Brigade. What if Mo had to field a squibbler, pulled a groin from slipping, and was out for the year, with the Yanks up 8-4 or 8-5?. FIRE TORRE TIME.
Kyle-It’s most definitely Torre’s fault for Farnsworthless because he brought the bum in there to pitch.
whoa,
Farnsworth has pitched this way all year, regardless of the rest he has. He’s no good.
Farnsworth has had to bad appearances in the past month+, Bruney hasn’t found the plate since about June. I don’t get this at all. His ERA last year has nothing to do with this year.
Bruney is better than Farnsworth. So are a lot of people. He’s still not any good.
More Ohlendorf please. If they’re not strongly considering him for a playoff spot at this point, it is utterly foolish. 3 bullpen spots are locked down (Mo/Joba/Viz). The rest are up for grabs as far as I’m concerned. Ohlendorf deserves the same opportunity as the other marginal bullpen arms. Time’s running out. Find out what you have Mr. Torre. Give Ross the ball more down the stretch.
It’s hit or miss with Bruney/Villone/Ramirez/Britton/Farnsworth etc. etc.
Torre put Mo in position to get injured for nothing. For that, Cashman should give Torre “The Mo Rule”:
No bringing in Mo when the Yanks are up by 4 or more runs and the tying run is not at the plate when you take out the pitcher.
It’s called using your bullpen intelligently, Torre should try it sometime. Torre is lucky Mo didn’t get hurt coming in up 8-4 with 2 men on (tying run NOT at the plate).
Betcha Cashman was furious at Torre for tonight’s idiotic move and I bet he lets Torre have it and should let him have it at this point. The Yanks are too close to put their reason for living (yes, before A-Rod) in position to get hurt and that includes bringing in Farnsworthless and risking him sucking so bad, a panic move to bring in Mo would be made. Torre panicked and that’s the mark of a hasbeen manager which is what he is. It’s bad enough he can’t manage in close games, now he can’t manage in gimme wins which a 8-3 lead vs. a suc kass O’s team is, I could care less they’re 8-4 vs. the Yanks. They’re done.
Blame Torre,
Who died and left you in charge?
Your opinion is no more valuable than anyone else’s, so lighten up the attitude.
I agree that Farnsworth can’t be trusted, but if you’ve been watching games THIS year, you must know that Bruney is even worse. I don’t think he’s thrown a strike in months.
_Cut the cr ap bottom line is Bruney > Farnsworth thus Bruney should’ve been in there for the ninth. Thankfully YOU aren’t the Yankee manager cuz you’d rather go with Farnsworth than Bruney. You’re a joke._
My point was not a defense of Farnsworth, genius. It was the fact that you wanted a guy in there who is just as bad and thinks he is leagues ahead of him. That just simply is not true.
At least Farnsworth had been pitching well lately. Bruney was horrible for two months and went down to Triple-A and sucked there too. He hasn’t given me any reason to trust him whatsoever.
You hate Farnsworth because of his erratic control and his terrible attitude.
Tell me, how is Bruney any different?
For the exception of age and cost of contract, they are both the same pitcher. Great stuff when ON. Horribly bad when OFF. Both with major attitude problems.
Why are you in love with Bruney and hate Farnsworth when they are essentially the same pitcher?
Bruney is better than Farnsworth thus he comes in not Farns.
W – L GB GB-Loss Column
Boston 90- 61 – -
Cleveland 88 – 62 1.5 1
LA Angels 87 – 62 2 1
NY Yankees 86 – 64 3.5 3
.
….Oh. CERTAINLY the BoSux have EVERYTHING Wrapped up now, right ? Home Field throughout the playoffs, division champs…it’s ALL OVER…oops wait…that’s right …they play ALL 162 games ….So that lead is AIR TIGHT, huh Idiots ???
Blamer: Your arguments are based wholly on cherrypicked, unrepresentative statistics (Bruney’s ERA from a small portion of last year, for example) and what-if’s that didn’t come to fruition.
If you are going to use ERA as the basis of your argument, as you seem to want to do, surely you understand that THIS season Kyle Farnsworth had a better ERA going into the 9th inning than Ron Villone, ergo (that means therefore in Latin), he could not possibly su ck worse that Ron Villone.
I am neither a Farnsworth defender nor a member of the vaunted Torre Can Do No Wrong Brigade. I am merely a fan who understands that I am not better equipped to make managerial decisions than people who do so successfully for a living. I doubt that anyone who posts on any kind of internet message board is, least of all you, who I am clearly smarter than.
Matt,
He has pitched very well in all but one of his last nine or so outings.
His BAA in August was .176; in Sept. it’s .100.
If you can’t use Farnsworth, Bruney, Britton, or any of those guys in a 5 run game to get 3 outs, then isn’t the real problem the construction of the pen?
And he’s pitched very poorly for his hole career as a late inning reliever. That takes precedent over the last month.
Thanks all. Enjoyed reading the banter this evening and the lack of trolls made it even more enjoyable.
Happy Day for Yankee fans! And Tampa’s giving it to the Angels. Never fails. As soon as ESPN does a feature story on a pitcher, that pitcher lays a stinker. Kelvim Escobar was today’s lucky contestant. So far 4IP 8H 6ER. He’s still on the hook for Pena at 3rd.
Brian Bruney’s last 20 games
16.2 IP, 17 H, 17 R 25 ER 11 BB 9 K, 3 WP 8.10 ERA.
I don’t want him in the game either.
Our game tomorrow will be telling.
It’s not likely Moose will go more than six, and we’ll be looking at Bruney/Ohlendorf at least, and maybe Villone/Igawa.
I don’t think Torre brings Henn in unless it’s a 20-2 game, Orioles ahead.
At least, he’d better not!
_Brian Bruney’s last 20 games_
_16.2 IP, 17 H, 17 R 25 ER 11 BB 9 K, 3 WP 8.10 ERA._
Thanks, Matt.
I guess BT doesn’t bother watching the games or pay attention to stats.
He just knows that he hates Farnsworth (who doesn’t?) and Torre and comes up with moronic bullpen moves that are far worse than the moves he criticizes.
Is that correct? 25 ER on 17 Runs?
BT pays attention to stats, just not recent ones. He was spot-on about Bruney having a sub-1.00 ERA last season.
RSM
First off Bruney is not worse by virtue of his sub-2 ERA early on and the far less games he’s screwed up as opposed to Farnsworth. I guarantee you if Bruney had been brought in to serve up a run and make Torre go to Mo, no one, not even you would’ve cried “WHY NOT FARNSWORTH?!!” You say yeah you would’ve, you’re lying.
Too bad no one left me in charge, but I don’t have to be in charge. Any manager with half a brain doesn’t piss in his pants the hint of trouble with a 4-run lead and put his Hall Of Famer closer in position to get hurt for nothing which Mo pulling his groin or a hamstring with a 8-4 lead would’ve been. I would’ve been nauseated and I’m sure Torre would be in grave danger of losing his job immediately after the postseason if they got knocked out of it without Mo and no, he’s not quitting right after it’s over lest he’s a punk and that I’ll give Torre: he’d take his firing like a man, not quit so he isn’t fired.
Who died and left you blog comment moderator? I didn’t once insult a commenter. I spoke my peace multiple times so it wasn’t an editorial, you can ignore them or not, ok? You and everyone else drop the atitude and get some manners.
Guiseppe I never said Bruney was “leagues ahead “of Farnsworth, so nice try at putting words in my mouth I didn’t say. I merely said Bruney > Farnsworth. I also know the bullpen. Villone is worse than Bruney, so he doesn’t come in. You don’t burn Mo, bring in a kid with exactly 2 IP who served up a homerun in his second IP (Ohlendorf). Ramirez and Vizcaino were used. Henn is atrocious. Britton is second to last in front of Henn, those two, Wright, and Clippard aren’t even a thought. I forgot Veras, but Veras is
somewhat of an unknown quantity. I might go with him over Bruney. He’d have been fine too. Bottom line is no Farnsworthless.
Got news for you, if Farnsworthless wasn’t due $5.25M this year and $5.75M next and he was making $1.2M like Mike Myers, he’d have been traded or d.f.a. long ago. If there were options on him, he’d have definitely been sent to AAA along with Bruney who got called back up and remained up,
“genius”. They had to send down Bruney cuz Farnsworthless was taking up a slot, “genius”. I never said I thought Bruney was great, I merely said when you’re up 8-3, you bring him in not the trainwreck know was Farnsworthless (that nickname used by many alone means Bruney is better).
It’s about best available pitcher, Bruney or Veras was it and I can add Veras cuz he’s not Farnsworth either.
Bruney is different cuz he’s not Farnsworth. They are not the same pitcher. Oh b.t.w. Bruney’s sub-1 ERA last year and good start this year showed me he has the ability to pitch a scoreless ninth inning. His talent also showed me that. Farnsworth showed he has zero ability whatsoever to do that in Game 149 of the second and hopefully last year of his Yankee career, “genius”.
How is his ERA under 9 with 25 ER in 16.2 ip?
If Hey Matt is the same as Blame Torre: You claim to have not offended any commenters, yet you called me “dumbo”. I was deeply hurt and offended.
To clear up the Bruney stats question (we know that 25 earned runs on 17 runs is not possible), here are Bruney’s post-AS break stats…I’m too lazy to set up the list, but he has a 7.90 ERA in 17 games since the break.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....yerId=5959
15 ER, I’m sorry.
If Bruney had pitched in the ninth inning instead of Farnsworth, would it have been better? You just never know. Is Bruney a better choice than Farnsworth? I doubt it!
by the way…the aspect of this whole silly debate that is so obvious it goes unnoticed….perhaps it is precisely because Kyle isn’t that good that he was used tonight, in a comfortable situation, as a one-inning mop-up man? Saving Bruney who is not good but can pitch multiple innings makes sense for tomorrow. Kyle cannot pitch mulitple innings, so it makes sense to have Bruney ready for two tomorrow. Just a (rational) thought…
Ruh-becka: 20-2, O’s ahead. Goood one.
We cans till win this thing.
We already YANKED the season series from the chowder slurpers after seeming to lose 37 of the first 9 games between the teams.
It ain’t gonna be easy but we’re down to 3 1/2 down in the loss column! And we’re still the best team going into October.
A lot of vitriol for a series of obvious moves.
Edwar Ramirez really isn’t that good unless he’s spotting his fastball within inches, and he’d already been used.
You might give Chris Britton the ball in that situation.
Matt DeSalvo is a soft throwing version of Kyle.
Sean Henn is garbage.
I’d prefer to hold Igawa for tomorrow.
Jeff Karstens is a worse version of Matt DeSalvo
Ian Kennedy is pitching on Wednesday.
Ross Ohlendorf was pretty unimpressive in the minors. But I suppose I might consider pitching him in that spot.
Jose Veras is a mediocre pitcher who needs to spot, or he’ll be hammered.
And then there’s Ron Villone.
Given all that, I find it kind of hard to justify jumping on Joe Torre for bringing in a guy who’s finally declared himself ready to give the team an inning. Kyle had a rough time with the Red Sox in the Bronx, but he actually had been OK recently.
He’d pitched to a 14:3 K to BB ratio in his past 9.2 over 10 appearances, allowing 3 hits in that span.
Torre has it pretty tough with you guys. If any other move had backfired, you’d be just as upset.
MO needed the work, Farns had it planned with Torre to give MO another save.
To add on to that, I don’t understand what the next move was. Farnsworth crapped the bed tonight. I don’t know what the sense in leaving him in for Huff would have been. As it was, Huff brought the tying man to the plate.
This was a game they had to win. Torre is obliged to manage for the division until the Red Sox put it away. And he’s also obliged to take a game in hand against the Tigers.
If Mariano had gotten hurt, it would have been terrible luck, not Joe’s fault.
You correctly state that Brian Bruney had a sub 2 ERA, last on June 27.
His 8.62 ERA and 1.79 WHIP in 15.2 IP (Including 11 walks) after that is somewhat discouraging, however
Earned runs is an less than optimal metric with which to assess relievers because they are often pulled having left runners on base and other pitchers let those runners score. So there is a gap in the causal chain of events.
Thanks for that update on Bob Sheppard, Rebecca. I was there and I knew it wasn’t him, but no one believed me. I was wondering who it was.
I’d take Bruney over Farnsworth.
Let’s add to that. Outside the BOS appearance in late August, Farnsworth had actually been dominant in very limited work. It was a good time to test the water there? Farnsworth has burned you before, but he’d been really hard to hit until tonight (and the first hit off him was on a reasonable pitch.
Guiseppe
You’re the moron. Bruney > Farnsworth by virtue that you name me ONE time this year where Torre had to go to Mo (or I should say felt he had to go to Mo) because Bruney couldn’t finish a game. I can’t. Farnsworth is a joke overall. Torre has had to take this bum out of games with comfortable leads many times this year. Go look at pitching lines stathead. Oh b.t.w. Bruney was one of the better relievers when the Yanks sucked earlier this year, so nice PATHETIC try at manipulating stats to suit your arguments cuz I can shoot right back with that.
By your stathead logic, Kevin Thompson should’ve been playing RF in place of Abreu for the first 3 months of the year, for Abreu’s pathetic production was far more damaging to the Yanks’ chances at making the postseason than Bruney’s. A strong case could be made that Abreu’s awful production is the primary non-pitcher reason why the Yanks won’t win the division thus possible homefield advantage for at least one of the postseason rounds.
See unlike you, I don’t ascribe to the “who’s been good lately” philosophy when it comes to games like tonight. It’s all about who to give work to with a 5-run lead. Bruney needed it more, so thanks for pointing out that with providing your stats which are not the be all end all of baseball strategy. Add that to Bruney being better than Farnsworth overall, and Bruney gets the nod over Farnsworth.
Sorry you lose this argument. Oh yeah # Mo has had to come in right after Mo > # Mo has had to come in right after Bruney. Chew on that stat.
John,
Holding off Igawa to do *what*? tomorrow?
The probability of Bruney and Farnsworth both chokin’ it up are about the same. However, lately Kyle did seem to be on track. He should’ve got the nod, especially since he hadn’t pitched in a week. And no one feels sorry for him, because it’s always something with him. If you can’t be a durable pitcher then you don’t belong in the big leagues. I don’t think it was rust, I don’t think it was anything physical, it’s all between the ears for K.F. He’s either got the goods or not, depending on how the stars line up. Lucky thing we had a lead. Still, bummer that we had to burn Mo. As long as they get their $%!& together before the postseason it’s fine. Our starters have been pretty good lately. Nice to have fresh arms at this point of the season.
The preference for Bruney over Farnsworth in that spot is, I think, the dumbest argument we’re hearing. At least the Rivera getting hurt scenario is grounded in fear of losing your dominant closer.
Bruney has walked ten more men than Farnsworth in ten fewer innings. In what parallel universe is he a better choice than the guy who’d allowed 3 H in his last 9.2 IP with 3 BB and 14 K?
whoa…nice.
I was just playing his game…
also, since we’re speaking of Bruney’s “talent” as a reason to pitch him and ignoring his recent performance…isn’t that EXACTLY the case with Farnsworth? 98mph (albeit a little straight) and a sick slider…I don’t know if many scouts would say Kyle is not talented, let alone not more talented that Bruney. Kyle’s problem is in the head and in the heart. Which is why tonight would’ve been a good night to steal an inning out of his arm, but he couldn’t even deliver that.
Holding off, Matt, because the rosters have expanded, because Igawa doesn’t have a track record, because Mussina’s recent track record suggests an outing of anywhere from between 1 IP to 5 IP. You’d rather use Igawa in long innings than a bunch of three out guys to piece together four or five.
Essentially, holding him out so he can pitch tomorrow, if Mussina reverts to poor form.
I guess “Hey Matt” and “Blame Torre” are the same person because I just read a long, hyperbolic, and illogical rant from “Hey Matt” responding to my comments that were intended for “Blame Torre.”
Does everyone get that?
Anyways, look no further than the stats posted earlier on Bruney as the reason why nobody trusts him. At least Farnsworth had been pitching well lately. Can’t say the same thing about Bruney. He hasn’t pitched well for months – not even in Triple-A.
Besides, I don’t care what Bruney did last season. He’s not doing it _this_ season – which is all that matters right now.
Did you give Mike Mussina a break after getting rocked for 3 starts in a row and point out that he should be starting over Kennedy because of his success for two months earlier in the season?
I’m guessing you didn’t, which indicates that your logic doesn’t make sense. I don’t care what these guys did weeks ago or last season. I care about what they are doing now. Sometimes, you’ve got to ride the hot hand in the pen.
Bruney has to pitch a whole lot better than he has this season or no manager is going to trust him.
And yes, they ARE the same pitcher. Both have great stuff when they are on. But they both can walk the ballpark with the best of them when they are not.
Not to mention, they BOTH have attitude problems. I guess you didn’t see Bruney show up the ump within the last week or so and then walked the bases loaded with a huge lead in the 9th?
Torre saw what Bruney did with a huge lead last week and decided not to take that risk again. How anyone could blame Torre for that is beyond me.
Genius.
Blame Torre
I can think of an obvious one. Bruney came in to pitch against KC with a huge lead and walked three men. He also recorded an out. That’s not a very good ratio. It also necessitated a bullpen move by Torre.
He actually committed nearly the same sin about three weeks earlier against KC.
I don’t think you can really use Farnsworth’s recent history in his favor. You have to assume that at some point he’ll return to being the massive failure he’s always been. But you also have to assume Bruney will be as bad as he’s been.
It was pick your poison. You’d hope the bullpen wasn’t so horrible, but this is the reality of the situation.
Can I just say something?
THE YANKEES WON!
yaaaaaay!
That is all.
John, I’d rather never use Kei Igawa ever.
It’s also worth noting that as good as Bruney looked in picking up the win on Friday night, he was very unimpressive the next afternoon.
His outing got attention on Friday because he got the win and because he kept the lead where it was. But everyone retires four men in a row sometimes.
Especially when those four men are:
Bobby Kielty
Jacoby Ellsbury
Julio Lugo
Dustin Pedroia
That’s mostly because even Pedroia makes out most of the time.
Kei has good K rates and he pitches way too high in the zone. I don’t have much faith in him. But it wouldn’t surprise me if, by virtue of his stuff, he works his way into being a league average pitcher.
Matt,
I’d like to see what Igawa can do in relief – he had one relief outing and ended up getting 6 IP, 4Ks and the win against the Sox.
Why have him on the roster if you don’t use him? I want to know if he can pitch a couple innings in relief if we need him (since he won’t be starting anytime soon).
BT, are you serious? How could that be a stat? Farnsworth pitches the 8th inning way more often than Bruney, so the question is not how often Bruney gets lifted for Mo, it’s a question of how often Bruney fails vs. how often Farnsworth fails. OF COURSE Farnsworth gets lifted more often for Mo…Mo is the next in the chain after Farnsworth, when Bruney gets lifted (in the 6th or 7th) we are a long way away from Mo.
Your argument is analagous to saying Giambi gets lifted for Mientkiewicz more often than Jorge Posada does, therefore, Posada is a better defensive 1B than Giambi. APPLES AND ORANGES MY MAN.
I found this quote to be very telling: “See unlike you, I don’t ascribe to the “who’s been good latelyâ€? philosophy when it comes to games like tonight.”
Folks
Go to the stats part of the Yankees’ official website, click on Bruney, then click on his game-by-game log. You will find that he was solid April through June until he hit a wall in July so bad (8 ER) he got send down because he has options, is making Farnsworth. See, Bruney has barely pitched this month cuz Farnsworth is finally waking up albeit given mostly cushy appearances where he isn’t in position to cost the Yanks games. Bruney finally gets the ball in a crucial game (Boston 9/14) and shines, shows he can be like he was April through June. He needs more work. Enter now last night vs. the O’s.
Bruney is the classic case of a hiccup pitcher. He gives up 2 or 3 ERs here and there and it inflates his ERA which is 4.07, better than Farnsworth’s 4.25. He’s served up 3 ER to Farnsworth’s 8. Farnsworth’s ERA outside his recent good stretch is way > 4.25. Farnsworth has given up far more inherited runners than Bruney as well.
You know, it’s always the guys you least expect that come up big in October (except for Jeter).
So, don’t be surprised if Bruney comes on Game 6 of World Series and holds Arizona/Mets/Phillies/Cubs/Brewers/Padres/Dodgers hitless…
Matt…it’s not really pick your poison. Torre knows he might only get 4 or 5 out of Mussina last night, and if that’s the case, Bruney is the better man for the job because he can actually pitch two innings unlike Farnsworth. So it actually makes sense to go with Farns with a 5 run lead in the ninth, and hopefully tomorrow will work itself out, but having more guys available to pitch more innings tomorrow helps.
I’ve smashed my head into the Kei Igawa brick wall twice already. I never understood the signing, had very low expectations going in, and he managed to miss all of them.
I wouldn’t have put him on the roster, don’t understand why he is, and wouldn’t put him in a game we need to win (ie. all of them)
last night=tomorrow night (two nights from now).
I’m getting too tired for this…
the bullpen is gassed, i dont expect to see mo, joba, edwar, or farnsworth tomorrow…..hopefully we wont need them
I don’t hate Bruney, and I do think there might be something there. But we are making way too much about a managerial decision that involves choosing between which guy to bring in for mop-up duty in a game in which we WON by 3 runs and nobody got hurt. There’s really nothing to complain about. Matter of fact, that’s all I have for y’all, have fun everybody, whether you’re enjoying the win, replaying every pitch in your mind and scrutinizing how the game could’ve turned out so much better, or, doing something that is entirely seperate from baseball. Until tomorrow…
Brian Bruney on Sept 8th vs. KC
Bruney comes in to pitch the 9th inning with an 11-2 lead. He walks the first hitter on four pitches and shows up the ump because he thought he was being squeezed on the 2-0 pitch.
What does he proceed to do, you ask?
He walks the bases loaded and is then relieved by Edwar Ramirez.
His line:
0.1 IP, 0 H, 2 ER, 3 BB, 0 K
He threw 20 pitches that inning and just 5 of them were in the strike zone.
Yeah, he’s the guy I trust in the 9th inning.
See it for yourself, genius:
“link”:http://mlb.mlb.com/news/wrap.j.....8;c_id=nyy
Miguel since when was Farnsworth the 8th inning setup man to Mo? Vizcaino has been that all year.
I’ll rephrase:
Yanks up by 4 or more runs, Bruney or Farnsworth. How many times has Mo had to come in right after each guy? For Farnsworth, one (last night). I’m pretty sure Bruney has not been taken out for Mo. I could be mistaken, but I think Bruney had to come in right after Farnsworth as well at least 2-3X this year. I doubt Farnsworth has had to come in for Bruney su cking, or at least I can’t recall a game where that’s happened.
My not going with who’s been good lately is cuz I look at the player overall most of all his mental makeup. I look at general trends and the general trend of Bruney is he’s better than Farnsworth and needs the work. When I look at Bruney, I see a bulldog and a potential premiere setup man. When I look at Farnsworth, I see a scared, hunted man and one who can’t come back from his mistakes. Look at him last night. Tell me he didn’t get immediately flustered when he put the first man on. He did. Did Bruney scare when he was brought in with the Yanks down 7-1 this past Friday?
No, he pitched 1 1/3 scoreless innings to hold Boston to 7 runs. It really has nothing to do with stats.
Blame Torre,
Kyle Farnsworth has not entered a game with an inherited runner all year long. I’m not sure where you got the stat that he has given up more inherited runs
Good Lord. People are complaining even when we win. Nothing has changed. Wasn’t Farns pitching great before this outing? He has a hiccup. Hopefully, he can bounce back. We needed the win and Torre didn’t trust Farns to finish the job, so he brought in the Sandman. Game…set….match!! Celebrate! I hope Chris Britton isn’t in Torre’s dog house.
Brian Bruney has pitched 146.2 career innings and walked 112 men. He walks seven men per nine innings pitched. He has a career WHIP of 1.657
That’s a premiere set up man?
Seems that Reyes is having a tough year. Remember Randolph raving about his young protege? Looks like he’s still a raw talent. Pay careful attention to the attitude issues. You can’t compare him to Jeter. No way.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09.....ref=slogin
_Kyle Farnsworth has not entered a game with an inherited runner all year long. I’m not sure where you got the stat that he has given up more inherited runs_
Right again, Matt.
There were “Farnsworth Rules” before there were “Joba Rules.”
Farnsworth does not come into the middle of an inning. He hasn’t all season. He also doesn’t pitch on back-to-back days.
Obviously, “Hey Matt,” “Blame Torre,” or “Brian Bruney is my cousin” doesn’t have a clue what he’s talking about and simply hates for the sake of hating.
I lied, I’m not leaving yet.
Farnsworth has clearly been the 8th inning setup man for most of the year, pre-Joba! Vizcaino was burned out by Torre early on (as the 7th inning guy) and really didn’t get used much during the middle of this season. If you had been around this blog more during the middle of the summer you and I would’ve been on the same side, as we discussed ad nauseum how much we all hated having Farnsworth as the primary setup guy. For a few weeks before Joba came, Viz took over that role but Farnsworth held it for much of the year.
Put it this way, using your own logic: Kyle has been pulled for Mo multiple times, because Kyle WAS the last line of defense in Torre’s bullpen before Mo for much of the season. Mo only comes in in the 8th or 9th innings, period. So if Kyle is lifted for Mo, it has to be that he is pitching in those innings.
As far as who is better, Bruney or Farnsworth, that’s another debate. I don’t like either one that much. it’s easy to not be scared in a 7-1 game, the game’s not exactly riding on the outcome of your every pitch. I just don’t think you need to worry so much about who is being used in the 9th inning of a 8-3 game, it is mop-up time at that point. And, if my suspicions are correct, and Torre is saving Bruney for the Mussina game in which he knows he will need guys who can give him innings, then your perceived “slap in the face” to bruney by Torre is non-existent…it could be that Torre chose Farnsworth to pitch a less-important inning tonight than he will ask Bruney to pitch tomorrow night! In which case, why did this discussion even come up? I have a theory, and it’s directly related to the name you post under…some people just can’t help themselves from going after the man, even when there is no real reason for it.
NOW I am out.
E-ROC, I’d say that his recent stretch was a hiccup in an otherwise lousy late inning relief career. (4.07 ERA, 1.41 WHIP)
But that’s not Joe Torre’s fault.
Hey Guiseppe Franco aka Farnsworth’s Boyfriend since he has such a thing for Farnsworth:
Oh please I meant to to say Bruney has had more inherited runners than Farnsworth. Right, Farnsworth has been babied all year. His 4.25 ERA was built from scratch. He gets a fresh new inning to su ck. Bruney doesn’t have the luxury of being able to start innings all the time like Farnsworth.
He comes in with men on base -he’s a REAL RELIEVER unlike Farnsworth. Did it ever occur to you that if Farnsworth wasn’t such a worthless bum he can’t come in the middle of innings maybe everyone else wouldn’t be overused in those situations. Farnsworth su cks so bad Torre won’t ever bring him in with a man on base.
Here’s some stats since you like to pull them out of your a ss:
Sat.9/14/07: Bruney pitches 1 1/3 scorless IP after Pettitte gets knocked out early. He helps the Yanks beat Boston 8-7.
That alone makes up for his brainfar t vs.K.C. 9/8.
WHERE WAS FARNSWORTHLESS?
2 1/3 scoreless IP in 2 games vs. Detroit in August.
WHERE WAS FARNSWORTHLESS?
His solid April, May, and June.
WHERE WAS FARNSWORTHLESS THEN?
You just proved how badly Farnsworthless su ck with your own stats HAHAHAHAHA.
Farnsworth su cks sooooo bad! (HOW BAD DOES HE SU CK?)
Farnsworth su cks sooooo bad, Torre brought in Edwar Ramirez to finish a game where the Yankees won 11-2 vs. pathetic Yankee doormat Kansas City.
Sorry but you lose this argument. Nighty-night!
Oh b.t.w. you’re just as anonymous as me with your hair growth man username.
I’m not sure what that was.
Me neither. Can’t argue with a 10 yr old.
I’m back again. Yes you can, it’s fun (arguing with a 10 year old).
At the very least it can be educational for them…
2 1/3 scoreless IP in 2 games vs. Detroit in August.
WHERE WAS FARNSWORTHLESS?
Kyle Farnsworth’s line this season vs. Detroit (I got these from the very yankees website you cited. You should be sure there is not evidence that will hurt your argument in a source you quote to back your argument):
Farnsworth vs. Detroit: 4 games, 4IP, 0 runs, 0 hits, 5 strikeouts, 1 walk.
So where was Farnsworth while Bruney was pitching well against Detroit? HE WAS IN DETROIT, PITCHING EVEN BETTER.
You’re out of your element, Donnie.
why is there such a heated arguement over kyle farnsworth and brian bruney
guys they all stink; kyle, bruney, edwar(some upside), desalvo, henn, villone, Britton(some upside),Igawa, Veras,they all stink.. you are arguing over nonsense.
they are all equally unreliable and walk way to many batters.
Again the Yanks have 3 relief pitchers; mo, viz, and joba that is it..they have tried like 12 other guys and cannot find anyone else who can throw strikes and have a 3.50 ERA, that is sad…
the angels scare me big time; look at the avg.s of the guys in there lineup… no power but good averages and if you have not noticed our pitchers do not strike anyone out……
Man, we need to stop using Mo so much. He’s not what he use to be and because of bums like Farnsworth and Bruney we have to use him anytime we want to win a game that we aren’t up by a billion runs. I hope that doesnt hurt us in the long run.
Veras has good stuff. I dont know what you’ve been watching.
Veras is a guy that’s been around the minors forever and isn’t very good at getting those guys out.
Arguing who is better Farnsworth or Bruney is quite pointless. Both are average and both have no control of the strike zone most of the time.
Seriously, crying about Torre using Farnsworth and not Bruney is pretty sad. Farnsworth needed the work and what better time to get it than a 5 run lead into the ninth.
Bottom line Farnsworth failed to do the job, you going to put that on the manager? No thanks.
it wasn’t really a heated argument about Bruney vs. farnsworth, at least not from my end. It was more of a Torre argument, one guy thought Torre’s an idiot for not using the great Bruney, others agreed with you guys, it is a moot point,, but just to further the argument, we showed that Bruney’s really no better than Farns if you look at it.
Luckily, it’s not as important now as it was earlier in the season, when we were desperately looking for an eith inning guy in fron of Mo. I thought that was the team’s biggest weakness until Viz and Joba emerged. Now we at least have 3 guys we can count on. it would be great if one more guy, from the group of Farnsworth, Ramirez and Bruney can emergeas somewhat dependable. Otherwise, Kyle will win that role by default. It could also be whichever young starter (or both) doesn’t go in game 4.
If Torre wanted to give Farns some work I can appreciate that, but it seems to me to be a great time to see a little more of Olendorf and find out what he can do.
Ditto, Miguel.
It wasn’t a heated argument at all until the 10 yr old decided to go all grade school on me.
The fact of the matter is that neither of them are trustworthy, but Farnsworth had been pitching better as of late. Bruney hasn’t pitched well for months.
For whatever reason, he sees something in Bruney that nobody who has watched this team has seen in him.
Positive spin on the Yankee year. This has been a truly remarkable year considering the Yankees have so many young players now. The pitching staff has two players just out of college. Look around the league—Minnesota has some young kids pitching Garza, Slowey nothing near the Yankees. This bodes well for the Yankees next year.
Andrea – I was reading through the posts and was just going to pop down here to remind everyone here that the Yankees DID win the game, when, thank heavens, I came to your post! Thanks for saying it first.
Regarding not using Mo because he might have gotten hurt: couldn’t that be that case every night with every pitcher????????????
Regarding Kyle: With a 5 run lead, it was a safe enough move. He hadn’t pitched because of his neck and was a bit rusty – that stinks, but Torre had to bring him into a game sooner or later. Would you rather he brought him in in a closer game? He had been mostly getting the job done recently.
And last, on Phil Hughes: Maybe he should pretend it’s the 2nd or 3rd inning when he comes into a game.
Anyone else think it was priceless last night, and great camera work, showing Guidry and Hughes (and a couple of others) in a pitching tutorial?
Oops, not last I guess, ’cause I have one more thing: Michael Kay just keeps getting more and more annoying. I used to be able to just sigh and move on, but he seems to want to get into an argument on every point. When he was talking about Maddux and Leiter and warm-up pitches from the stretch and Girardi kind of disagreed, I was figuring next time Kay is matched up with Leiter he’s going to bring up that Girardi disagreed — just for argument’s sake, of course.
damn i’m gettin tired
Now that you all have the bullpen sorted, the Yankees have a good opportunity tonight to pick up another game on the Red Sox with a win. The Sox are starting Lester against Burnett, a good matchup for the Blue Jays, I think. Lester has been inconsistent and Burnett is pitching great right now.
Torre doesn’t have the luxury of pulling names out of a hat to be used out of the bullpen. He needs to break it down to most likely / least likely and depending on who was used in the previous game to avoid burnout.
Under no conditions should Henn be used again this year. Once postseason is settled, he can make adjustments but not until.
my guess is torre is smarter, more infomed at least than any of us. sometimes it is a matter of the gut feel, in combination with other reasons. i don’t question torre one iota on allowing farns to give it a shot. he could have been great, or what we got. someone has to do it.
“Anyone else think it was priceless last night, and great camera work, showing Guidry and Hughes (and a couple of others) in a pitching tutorial?”
i metioned it last nightbut what struck me was how posada sucked it all in. i’m thinking he’s going to be a yankee manager when his playing days are over. his dad’s a scout.i think posada will be a a baseball lifer.he’ll be a manager.
i wish there was a co captain role to give. he deserves something.
As others have pointed out Joe had to get Kyle in a game at some point. He hadn’t pitched in a long time due to various aliments. I guess it would have been better to get him in, in a one run lead?
Jesus and to the one who said he’d rather have Brian Bruney out there, what are you his father? You have to be kidding me. What has anyone seen out of Brian that would warrent him being in a game with a 5 run lead when he couldn’t hold it together in games with larger leads? Brian has a sense of intitlement, for what reason I don’t know. This is a guy who was released!!
Pete: why is there is a showdaheadz banner ad on a yankee blog site? hahaha. trolls…. they never go away!
Randy:
In affect, Jorge is the assistant captain of the Yankees and has been for a few years.
When his active career is finished, he’s ripe for coach/manager material and has it written all over him. The exact demeanor necessary to succeed. He’s been a student of the game.
dmm: see following post
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/200.....d-sox-ads/
short answer: google observes what’s posted on this site and displays ads accordingly. Since the Sawx are of course, a hot topic, google displays similar ads.
As for the topic of this blog- I honestly am confused by the arguments being posted here. Why is everyone arguing over Bruney v Farnsworth? Hate to burst anyone’s bubble, but that’s like arguing over Edsel v Yugo – hint: they both suck. Let it go.
Rover,
yeah, I agree with you! Farns was a ? , but you had to see what he was going to give you a some point, and with that lead, it seemed like a good time to do that. Let’s all pray for Mussina to go deep so we don’t have this nailbiting problem tonite!
It was only one out, and Joe should have let Farnsworth finish that game, or, at the very least, give him one more batter instead of thinking about the idiotic save stat. Farnsworth walked the first batter after not pitching for a week, then gave up two grounders that found holes. He was fine.