What’s more important?
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- September
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Let’s say the Yankees are 2.5 games behind the Red Sox on Friday but 5.5 games ahead of the Tigers. With 10 games left, what should Joe Torre do?
There are basically two choices: Push hard and try to win the division or line up the rotation for the playoffs.
To me, it’s an absolute no-brainer: You work to enter the postseason in the best shape possible.
For the Yankees, winning the division is almost totally insignificant. They will be judged on whether they get to the World Series. If they win the division and lose in the first round, it’s a disaster.
Having Wang, Pettitte and Clemens (and Rivera and Chamberlain) rested and ready for Games 1, 2 and 3 is far more important than anything else. So is giving Jeter a day or two to rest that knee, etc.
Beyond that, they can go 10-0 and still not win the division. They need Boston to cooperate by losing. It’s entirely different than being in the lead and playing to keep it.
Torre will never admit it. But starting on Friday, they need to make plans for October. Nothing will be won on Sept. 30.
UPDATE, 11:50 p.m.: I think some people are missing my point. What I’m asking if whether it’s worth it to use front-line pitching over the final few days of the regular season to try and win the division knowing you may not have your best guys for Games 1 and 2 in any series, whether it’s home or not.
I’m suggesting that the mission is to have Wang and Pettitte rested and ready for Games 1 and 2 with Rivera and Chamberlain also rested. Whether the game is in the Bronx, Anaheim or Cleveland, you want your two best pitchers in the first two games.
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on Wednesday, September 19th, 2007 at 10:48 am by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
Completely agree, Pete. Line up the rotation, get guys the right amount of rest, and get ready for the playoffs.
Its a bonus if the Red Sox panic and continue to play their injured regulars to win the division.
If they are dumb enough to do it, that’s on them.
The Yankees priority needs to be, getting the pitching in order and getting the regulars the right amount of rest.
Agreed, Pete. Winning the division would only be a bonus. Rest and readiness for the playoffs is paramount.
Watching Boston collapse this much has been so much fun…but Pete, SJ, you are both right.
Getting in in good shape is way more important than a division crown.
However, the Yankees rotation now?
When your last pitcher to lose a game is Chien Ming Wang, you’re in pretty good shape.
Watching Boston sweat, even just a little bit, is worth it.
From a purely selfish fan perspective, it’s not so much important that the Yankees win the division, but that they *prevent* the Sox from winning it. It’d just be a thumb in the eye to all the smug Boston fans out there who have been lording their teams Greatness over everyone all year. So yeah, if we can take the division without screwing up the post-season approach too badly, I say go for it.
There two options here.
What is the right thing to do and what they will do.
As Pete said, the right thing to do is to rest the regulars and prepare for October.
However, irrespective of Boston, there is a nice streak going on about the consecutive divisions won. I think Big Stein will place very high importnace on that streak continuing and they will go for it as long as there is realistic chance. Even Cashman will place premium on this option on this. Remember what he said when the Yanks won the division – Under my watch we always won division.
Given the strong bench and the six starters, I think Joe must be able to balance the act between the two options.
I understand why you all want to just make it to the playoffs, but I’d like to see 9 straight division titles. I want the division. Nothing less. If we don’t pass Boston, I’ll be content with the Wild Card, but we can’t forget. These are the New York Yankees. They are not a Wild Card team. Play hard for the division. The players won’t settle for taking it easy the rest of the season. They’re going to play hard every day until the season’s over, trying to catch Boston.
Cashman is the most calculating, pragmatic person in the organization. I have no doubt he is having his staff look at the different options and what is best for the organization to win the WS.
I think wild card would be fine, let’s not forget our 96 championship was the result of a wild card birth. It’s great to win divisions (and if Boston chokes bad enough, I will gladly accept our taking the division), but Pete is right, if we win the division and lose in the first round, or any round for that matter, it’s a disaster. The focus should be october, that’s what the Yankees play to reach, a division title is icing on the cake but not a priority.
SJ44-
I think you hit the nail on the head when you say ‘the right amount of rest’
I don’t like the idea of guys getting to much rest this close to the postseason.. Guys like Jeter and Matsui needs some rest, but I don’t want to see him sitting Cano or Abreu.. Or not using Joba or Edwar…
But the RIGHT amount of rest does help..
Have to agree with Peter. Joe needs to give us the best chance to win the WHOLE enchilada. Winning the divsion at the expense of going into to the playoffs with a diminished rotation & tired bullpen & losing in the first round is not worth the risk.
Red Sox WERE the best team in baseball, but NOW & since the A-Rod “HA-HA” game the Yankees are. Red Sox starting pitching in shambles to the point they put No-hitter rookie Back into starting rotation although he is over his pitch limit for the year & they vowed to keep him in the the bullpen because he was too valuable to jeopardaize his future. Desperation is rampant as Yankees get larger in rear view mirror.
GAGNE for Yankees MVP!
Wow, two great perfomances in a row by Moose, whom I had given up hope for, although against weak hitting teams. Difference was had great command down in the zone of a sharp breaking curveball. That is key for him & makes everything else so much better. Hope he can maintain, but still not sure as he has no margin for error, unlike our young arms who can get better get away with a mistake. You know Joe will do all he can to be loyal to his Vet if it is even a remotely close decision come the playoffs & they need a 4th starter.
Looks like Manny has flaked out on his teamates when they desperately need him the most. Saw a few BP swings of his recently & he seemed to have no trouble smacking the ball into the seats. Bet his teamates are PO’d.
KEEP Doug at first for the payoffs. He’s earned it & makes us a better team all around.
Not sure why, but the other night Joe seemed so supportive of Farnsworth after the game when leaving the field, patting him on the back, after he KILLED us once again when it mattered by forcing Joe to bring in Mariano by blowing a big lead. Too bad Farnsworth doesn’t have the psyche to go along with his stuff.
No one is suggesting the Yankees should not play hard. However, they should only play hard when in the game. It is a good time to rest the regulars and line-up the starting pitching and, because of the Joba rules, the relief “rotation.”
I fully agree with you Pete. I don’t discount the advantage of having game 5 in the division series and games 6 & 7 in the LCS at home, but the Angels and Indians might wind up with better records anyway. Having the rotation set and everyone feeling as healthy as possible for this time of year is the priority.
That said, I would love for the Yanks to go that route and still have the Sox cough up the division. Honestly, do that and then beat them in the LCS – what would warm the heart more?
how bad would it be in red sox nation to find themselves in the wild card after having a stronghold on the division all year long ?
that being said …
for $210 million i kind of expected the division . but as long as the yanks are in , i guess thats all that matters .
Honestly, I haven’t cared about winning the division for months. Just keep playing well, and get ready for the postseason.
after gagne got two outs last night, i was really starting to believe that he had turned the corner, but that wasn’t the case.
sure, we are closer to boston, but regardless of whether we win the division or not – we’re in their heads. the red sox know that we can beat them, and they know that they are very very vulnerable.
i love the way this is all playing out
BTW, the Yanks won the wild card in ‘95 & ‘97, not ‘96.
The articles in the Boston Herald were great today. Good reads.
Like you said… a no brainer.
Not sure if you meant to imply that the sequence for starters should be Wang, Pettitte, Clemens.. but I think that depends on whether we start at home (unlikely) or on the road. I would want Wang to pitch at home… so if we start on the road, that would be game 3. If we start at home… I’d lean towards Pettitte, Wang, Clemens…
56Bomber,
Wang is definitly better at home, but I don’t see the Yankees setting up a rotation to plan for that.. Wangs the ace, he’ll ge the start in game 1..
Well, okay, but as for nothing being won on September 30th? I remember, not so long ago, when Joe left the better pitcher on the bench (Mussina) and gave away home field advantage in the playoffs.
Who here wants game five in Anaheim? Anyone? Hello? (And if you don’t think it makes any difference, you haven’t been paying attention.)
DMan,
I’m not sure Torre would start Wang on the road with both Pettitte and Clemens pitching well. He loves his veterans. Torre also says that game 3 is always the most important…taking that into account I respectfully disagree with you.
Getting rest to the regulars and lining up the staff is important but I think that the Yanks are something like 23-9 in their last 32 games at home. Getting home field advantage would be nice.
You play to win the game. If the Yankees are in a winning habit then all the better. We have a six-man rotation with any three easily being able to go in game one of any potential ALDS game.
Play to win but don’t be silly, if a guy is carrying an injury and a couple of off days will help him then let him sit, otherwise keep up with what we are doing at the moment. Whether or not we catch the Sox, the way we are playing now and the way we are mentally focused is not something I’d want to lose.
Funny picture:
“Cover of Boston Herald Link”:http://www.waswatching.com/archives/BostonHerald091907.html
It’s just the way Torre works.. Wang leads the team in wins. He’s been on the mound almost all year.. If Torre decides to line things up for the post-season, I’ve got to think it’ll go like Pete predicts.. Wang, Andy, Clemens, Moose.
I mean as far as game 3 being a big game.. Whos a better big game pitcher than Roger?
They should definitely rest everyone and get ready for October, but considering their dominance in Yankee Stadium, I think home field advantage shouldn’t be entirely discounted. It’d be really nice to be able to pitch Wang where his ERA is considerably lower. On the other hand, there’s definitely a part of me that would rather play to face the Indians instead of the Angels regardless of whether we have home-field advantage or not.
Dman,
I guess we’ll know soon enough – its not a bad problem to have.
Can you imagine the panic in Boston if Buchholz gets lit up tonight?
Winning the division and possibly the best record in baseball is not important? That’s news to me.
Accomplishing those two things gives the Yankees a significant advantage over their first round opponent. They will be able to throw out Wang Twice, Pettitte Twice, and Roger Clemens once all in the span of a 5 game series–all on normal rest.
That sureley beats the heck out of Wang, Pettitte, Clemens, and Phil Hughes/Mussina.
Maybe you guys have a short memory but how many times have we “RESTED” our players going into the playoffs only to get slapped around? Heck, all you need to do is look at last years team.
Simply put, the Yankees are better off fighting for their lives like they are now. They have momentum, why kill it by resting players? They can do a little of both, 6 man rotation rests pitchers, while rotating the DH and giving days off do the same for everyday players.
Forget resting a week before playoffs.
56Bomber-
No kidding!
I think Buchholz is close to his innings limit too.. It’ll be interesting to see what they do with him.
Peter, I’m not so sure you’d feel that way if as the wild card, the Yankees would have to travel 3000 miles to face the Angels for games one and two. This would be a much easier calculation if it was clear who the wild card would play, but the Indians and Angels have identical records right now.
I know the Yankees are playing great now, but I want no part of the Angels and the travel that goes with that series. Honestly, if given the chance to humiliate Boston, I take it as a Yankees’ fan. Maybe my hate is taking over, but I would love to stick it to Boston. Right now, I think we would need to go 8-3, and hope Boston goes 5-5.
People forget who want to play the Indians so bad forget that if the yanks play them in the “long series” they have to face CC twice. I’m pretty sure he’d go 7-8innings 1-2 runs vs this team easily. Good luck with that.
the more i think about it, the more important the division looks. I do agree with GW on his point on the 6 man rotation right now. smart move.
‘96 was not a Wild Card berth for us.
I agree with Pete. Getting to the playoffs is the first goal. If, in doing the right things regarding appropriate rest for key players and setting up the rotation to go in October, you end up with the division, great. The more important thing is to win playoff games once you get there, with the ultimate goal, of course, being the world series, and, then, winning it.
Personally, I am thrilled that the Yankees are even in this position at all and everything from here on in is an unexpected delight. Of course I want them to win it all, and of course I believe they have the team to do it, but knowing how difficult it is to even get to the playoffs, and knowing that literally anything can happen once you get there, I’m trying to just enjoy this much, and each day as it comes.
Angels with home field advantage scares me. I think the Yankees should do whatever is best to avoid that
I agree that a balance can be found between resting some regulars (which will also shake the rust of some bench performers like Duncan and Betemit) and keeping up the winning ways. The six man rotation should do both for the starting pitching. The other work that needs to be done is to set the bullpen. It has been better of late, but I hope that Torre finds places to work in (and assess) Ohlendorf, Britton, Bruney and Veras over the rest of the regular season so that we have more than Edwar, Joba, Viz and Mo. He who is not named must NOT be used in October!
The goal is to win games, and if they can do that while lining up their rotation then that’s even better.
If you all would look at our home / road splits (22 games over at home, 1 game over on the road) you will see that it is VERY IMPORTANT that we win the division!
We are CRUSHING people at the Stadium while playing a shade over even on the road. We NEED home field advantage for as long as we can get it.
The only team with a BETTER home record in all of MLB is the Angels – a very possible first round opponent if we win the WC. Is that worth resting our regulars for? So we can play 3/5 on the road against a team with a GREAT winning percentage at home who traditionally tortures us…
Forget torturing the Sox, watching their fans all jump off the bridge if we pass them etc…as nice as that would be, it pales in comparison to getting that extra home game. We NEED that game to be in Yankee Stadium!
The Angels have one starting pitcher pitching well. I have no problem playing them.
I think a day or two off for anyone is not going to do much at this point in the season. Better we keep playing hard and not start getting complacent.
The Yankees are actually setup for Pettite to pitch game 1 and with one move Wang can pitch game 3. I would keep the current rotation and if the Yankees win home field pitch Pettitte and Wang 1-2. If they start on the raod, push Wang back to 3. With the off day, Clemens will still be on schedule for the second game.
As for resting, I would prefer momentum. I might would give the guys who would normally get rest their regular day off or whatever, but I wouldn’t start Scranton-WB’s lineup unless the team truly looked fatigued or were out of the running.
2 things:
1) All this talk of avoiding a team is fruitless as we can’t control the Indians or Angels records.
2) Lining up the pitching / relief rotations is a subtle thing and, most likely, Wang et al. will still be getting the same number of starts…just on different days. Maybe Jeter or A-Rod or Abreu gets an extra day off…but the guy subbing in for him is playing just as hard and may perform just as well or better as the regular. Thus, they are still playing hard and trying to win.
I think Melky could use a few days off. I hope its just fatigue that is killing his bat.
I think some people are missing my point. What I’m asking if whether it’s worth it to use front-line pitching over the final few days of the regular season to try and win the division knowing you may not have your best guys for Games 1 and 2 in any series, whether it’s home or not.
I’m suggesting that the mission is to have Wang and Pettitte rested and ready for Games 1 and 2 with Rivera and Chamberlain also rested. Whether the game is in the Bronx, Anaheim or Cleveland, you want your two best pitchers in the first two games.
Pete, you are right on the mark.
Pete…and what if they are only 1 game back of Boston on Friday and have a legit shot to not only win the division, but also could go into the playoffs as the number one seed ? The Yankees are gonna pitch Wang, Clemens and Pettite and only if needed rely on Mussina….I am certain that if they are the number one seed OR Division Winners and have those 3 lined up to go IN ANY ORDER, that is MUCH better than going in as the number 4 seed Wild Card and having it lined up EXACTLY the way they want is ( which is likely Wang, Pettitte, Clemens )….NO WAY they don’t push to win the Division as even though Wild Card teams have fared well in the playoffs as of late, those teams have done well on the road…and the Yankees on the road in the playoffs recently have NOT done well….all IMO though…
Any updates on when the site is going to registration…or is that waiting for the off season?
too many ‘what ifs’ in this thread it’s making my head hurt thinking about it.
how about another win tonight?
silly obvious statment…I agree with all posters above that agree with me…. LOL….Have a great day, ALL….Enjoy tonight, when we climb to only ONE GAME BACK in the Loss Column to the BoSux AND pick up one game on at least ONE other AL Playoff team ahead of us…..SPRINTING TOWARDS THE FINISH….the Marathon is almost over and the Yankees are headed for Division CHAMPS !!!
no, it’s not worth it to use pettitte and wang to win the division if it means they don’t start the playoffs in the first two games.
the red sox have the same dilemma so they’ll probably be lining up their rotation too. so it’ll be the same for both teams and the yankees will still have a chance to win the division by resting their starters to line up properly for the playoffs.
The whole resting for the post season becomes moot if the Yankees Don’t hold off Detroit. Also they are deep enough to rest a few guys here and there and still press on. The line up does not loose alot when you can sub the guys they have on the bench…(Who would thunk it, a couple of months ago)…They are also 6 deep in the rotation right now with out loosing much there. This is a situation where we can have our cake and eat it too! :
Im all for not counting my chickens. And I’m especially wary about hoping to play Cleveland over the Angels (or vice versa). As we well know, anything can happen in a short series. That said, I think I would like to see the rotation start getting set up the way Joe wants it for the playoffs.
I’d love to see the Yankees win the division. A division championship would grant them a number of indispensable benefits.
1) They’d open at home
2) They could pitch Chien Ming Wang twice, in Games 1 and Game 5. Whereas if the Yankees enter via the Wild-Card instead, according to Ken Rosenthal, they’ll pitch Pettite in Games 1 and 5, throw Clemens in Game 2, and save Wang for Game 3 because his ERA at home is markedly lower than on the road.
3) They have a better opportunity to finish as the one seed and opt for the series with the 3 off-days.
Still, I don’t see winning the division as a realistic possibility. This weekend the Yankees face Halliday, McGowan, AND AJ Burnett. The Red Sox, on the other hand, play the Devil Rays. I can’t envision the Devil Rays winning more than a single game. (The Yankees also would have to win that fourth game on Monday to make up the additional half game that separates the two teams.)
The Red Sox also finish at home and with two teams– the Twins and A’s– that have both played poorly of late and have little incentive to upend the Red Sox. The Yankees, in contrast, play two division rivals away that would love nothing better than to thwart their designs on the division.
BTW, if Burnett can stay healthy for a full season and BJ Ryan recovers from surgery, the Blue Jays, not only will contend next year but in Halliday, Burnett, and McGowan as their 1-2-3 and Accardo as their set-up man, the Blue Jays might have the best pitching staff in the AL East.
Wed Pettitte
Fri Wang
Sat Kennedy
Sun Clemens
Mon Hughes
Tues Pettitte
Wed Wang
Thurs Moose
Fri Clemens
Sat Kennedy
Sun Hughes
GM 1 Pettitte/Wang
GM 2 Pettitte/Wang
They don’t really need to change anything to have them lined up do they?
The only way Torre could screw that up is if he threw Pettitte on normal rest the last day of the season but I don’t think he is braindead.
I don’t know how much rest is really needed. All I know is the wild card teams do as well as any other team in recent postseasons. I think that is because they are playing for something right down to the wire. While yeah, duh I would rather the team is better rested going into the postseason.
However, I think the team is best served if they believe they need to keep winning. That means continue to take pitches, run the bases, do the little things. You take your foot off the gas, it is much harder to get it going again. I personally don’t care if we win the division, but I want to continue the high level of play.
Pete: we need our best guys (Pettite, Wang, Clemens) in the line up ready to go on the playoffs. So if it means WC vs. the Division, i’ll take the WC anyday.
If they hold to that set rotation they should be okay.
Pete, just because people aren’t agreeing with you doesn’t mean we don’t understand what you are saying, all it means is some of us think you’re wrong. I don’t see the big deal in not lining Pettitte and Wang up to start the first two games- if we set them up to face the two lesser pitchers of the other team, then we get a pretty good chance to win those two games, just like Leyland did with Nate Robertson starting the series last year. I think it’s a great move and trust that Roger, Moose, Hughes, Kennedy or whoever can keep us in the game well enough to give us a shot at winning Game 1.
The best record is important for the reasons people said. If we have a shot at it, we have to take it. The possibility of having the extra day of rest in the first round and pitching only Wang, Pettitte, and Roger is too good to miss. Then we effectively have Moose and Hughes/Kennedy out of the ‘pen if needed, which is a huge boost for us. With the Joba rules in effect, Chamberlain is going to be rested just fine, so that’s a non-issue. Rivera should be used as needed, it’s never a good idea to not use him in a save situation because you don’t want him losing his rhythm and you don’t always know when the next save situation will come.
All this talk about the post season…
Lets win tonight first.
Pete … isn’t going to the 6 man rotation a way to keep the starters well rested and lined up for a potential playoff series? I think it will be difficult for the Yankees to not go all out for the division if they win tonight and Boston chokes another game away.
Actaully Pettitte could pitch the last day of the season and still pitch game 2 on normal rest. I’d personally prefer that no one gets more than an extra day off whenever possible. Those 9-10 days off are killers.
Should we be rooting for us to lose game 1 no matter who we play? Isnt our playoff record horrendous when winning game 1 of late? I know its crazy but maybe its a bad omen.
Secondly, I mentioned this topic yesterday and someone made alot of sense by stating we have been resting players and lining up our pitching lately and getting into the playoffs cold. I say rest some guys a day or two(jeter,matsui,giambi),but keep pushing for the division. Ride the momentum to the playoffs.
Doug needs to stay at first and be resigned to another 1 year contract. More valuable than most people think.
Jeff NJ
I agree with you on that one.. I don’t like the practice of resting to many regulars and giving extra days off and such..
“chris in fairfield
September 19th, 2007 at 11:12 am
how bad would it be in red sox nation to find themselves in the wild card after having a stronghold on the division all year long ?
that being said …
for $210 million i kind of expected the division . but as long as the yanks are in , i guess thats all that matters.”
So that was YOUR $210 million spent on the Yankees payroll this year Chris?
This is a hot team right now,and the rotation is in good order. Also,yanks have adopted Rockets philosophy of “tough all day” and the Jeterian “we just need to win our games against whomever we play”.Flipping the switch to off at any time during the rest of the regular season is a very risky proposition.
Pete -
I think you are absolutely right.
As much as winning the division would be great… It really does mean squat unless the Yankees advance far into the playoffs.
They need to continue being the hottest team in baseball through the playoffs… not stop once they sealed a birth.
There’s only one thing important in any of this — setting up the ALDS rotation of Wang, Pettitte, Clemens, Mussina and Wang.
“I agree with you on that one.. I don’t like the practice of resting to many regulars and giving extra days off and such..”
Totally. I think its a much better idea to try to wear them out before the playoffs.
The division is something fun to think about but it still seems unattainable, especially when you starting running the numbers.
For the Yankees to win the division all they have to do is tie the Red Sox. Yankees win a tie-breaker based on the season series, 10-8 in favor of the Yanks. Right…so…
If Boston goes 5-5 over their next 10, the Yankees would have to go 8-3. Totally possible.
If Boston goes 6-4, Yankees have to go 9-2. It’s starting to get difficult.
If Boston goes 7-3, Yankees have to go 10-1. Now it’s asking quite a lot.
I just don’t see the Sox playing sub-.500 ball the rest of the way, especially with a series against the Devil Rays and a 6-game homestand to finish out the season.
The Yankees, on the other hand, have to deal with Toronto and 3 top of the rotation guys in Halladay, McGowan and Burnett.
The Yankees have done more than enough to save their season, winning the division would be fun but not necessary. They need to continue to win series and lock-up a playoff spot. Whatever rotation gets them that is the one I’m rooting for.
And as ‘Rotation is set’ pointed out it looks like Torre has already accounted for Pettitte and Wang to be Game 1/2 starters by going to the six-man rotation. That is of course if the Yankees make the playoffs.
Since there’s no more games against the Red Sox, I feel like there’s not much the Yankees can do to win the division but win their games and see if the Sox lose theirs. If that happens, cool. If not, we’re still in it. Better to get all our ducks in a row and be ready for OUR postseason and let them worry about theirs. If they crumble and we take the division, cool.
Rest the first 2 starters. Using other pitchers doesn’t mean a loss and using Wang & Pettitte doesn’t guarantee a win. Let the chips fall.
Lining up the rotation is fine but you need to align it for you are going to play. We still don’t know who we will play since LA and Cleveland have the same record. If we play LA, I want Wang at home and not out there. Out there would be Andy and Roger and then come home with Wang and Mussina. I keep Kennedy ready for whoever screws up bigtime first.
Regardless, bumping Boston out of first is necessary. Going into the playoffs demoralized would only hurt them. It would also give NY home field. Let Boston play LA….at least it will bump one of the two out.
Letting these guys get healthy is a good idea but Jeter will not take more than 1 day off anyway. These guys are on a roll…don’t stop the runaway train now.
Changing the subject for a second. Its funny how last year all the experts(even in the all-star game)were saying how Jose Reyes is already better than Jeter and is on his way to being the best shortstop in the game. Newsday had a poll on who was better reyes,wright or Jeter,A-rod. Boy talk about jumping the gun. Jeter a career 314 hitter. Reyes is the batting 288. Not close.
“Regardless, bumping Boston out of first is necessary. Going into the playoffs demoralized would only hurt them”.
Last year, Detroit tanked at the end and the Twins caught them and won the division. I think once the playoffs start, everything is new. Who knows, if Boston gets the Wild Card it might actually help them.
I think Torre needs to (and is) play responsibly the rest of the season, which means play to win while still keeping an eye on October.
Really, because they have 6 starters now, Torre has to ability to play hard and rest players. He could probably work in an extra day or two of rest for them, if he wanted (though I think it’s more important to line Wang/Pettite up for Games 1/2, and then give Clemens and Moose the extra rest). Torre has a lot of flexibility here.
10 games is still a lot, though. I think Francona is going overboard working in 3 and 4 days of rest for Schilling and DiceK. That’s a lot of extra rest. Forget those 10 games- Torre has 2 weeks to line everybody up. I think this week, you line the starters up, and next week you think about resting people.
I also think Jeter should get a couple days off in that last Baltimore series. The guy needs to take a seat for a bit, though he’ll fight it tooth and nail. Jorge and ARod could use some rest, too.
Reasons we will win the division.
1. Steve Phillips predicted today that the red sox will win the division. We all know how accurate he is.
2. Ortiz predicted earleir in the year that the Yanks will not catch them.(said the same thing 2 years ago and we know how that turned out)
3. DestiNY
I’m mad at Ortiz. The guy stole my cheeseburger!
I think something also to keep in mind that no matter if we win the division or the wild card we will have a MINIMUM of 4 days off before the playoffs begin so there is some flexibility there as well. I want home field advantage I believe that this is important in the playoffs and this team even though we have been better on the road in the 2nd half our home vs away record is very different and if we play the Angels their home record is out of control good.
I HAVE ONE OBSERVARION:
we need to set up rotation for post season. meanwhile follow captains advice and just win all we can. division would be nice, getting out of first round: priceless!!!
GO YAONKEES!!
OOPS YANKEES
SoS,
Check out this article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09.....ref=slogin
Lots of potential, but still has a lot to learn.
The problem with getting the Indians rather than the Angels is the Angels always tank it against the sox. They would have an easy first round series. I say lets face our demens and have Boston struggle with Cleveland.
I don’t care who we play or where we play. Line up our best starters with a fully loaded bullpen and this team is good enough to beat anyone.
I just hope Derek doesn’t hear that Peter is writing about his knee. I think he’s made it very clear that, “The knee’s fine. There’s nothing wrong with my knee.�
Once the WC is clinched, then I think Joe should set up the rotation by just letting primary starters Wang, Pettite, Clemens go a few innings for tune up, no stress purposes. That might mean 5 innings/game for Wang (give him a chance to get the 20 W’s), and 3 innings for Roger. Let the kiddie corps go the rest of the way…Keep Joba, Viz and Mo in pitching shape even if they aren’t needed…(blowout games).
Same true for postion players. Matsui and Melky need to get their swing back so they might play more than Jeter, Abreu and ARod.
Have the discipline not to deviate even if we get closer to Boston. Yeah, I want bragging rights for another Division, but I want #27 more.
Heaven is hereby defined as…beating the Angels, Sox and Mets. Two Day Parade.
Calling off the dogs while there’s money on the table is a loser strategy, for loser teams. We’re the Yankees and the division title is our property, period. Bad things happen when you stop giving max effort, mentally or physically. Don’t forget we phoned in the last game of the ‘05 season and ended up choking away a Game 5 in the Anaheim sun. Who thinks our chances wouldn’t have been better on a Bronx night with the upper deck shaking?
Rest is overrated at this time of year and as someone already pointed out, the rotation’s set up just fine. Hungry and motivated is the best way to roll into the post season. Clipping Boston’s wings is the taste of blood that we need.
I’m worried that Mussina might be sucking us in only to give us a mediocre outing in the postseason. No matter how well he pitches the rest of the way, I think I want Hughes or Kennedy starting in the postseason instead of Moose.
There’s a reason I don’t manage a baseball team. I can barely coach a 12-year-old girls soccer team. But I am a HUGE Yankee fan, and I trust Joe and his team to get us in the best possible position for a run to #27.
That being said, I intend to sit back and root my heart out from here on out. This is so absolutely exciting. The Stadium last night rocked – and the energy this team is giving off is amazing and contagious. As I said yesterday, I Live For This!
Let’s not worry about who the Yankees play or where they play, as long as they’re playing come October. Dating back to early June I’m pretty confident that most of us would have given anything to just be in the playoff mix, never mind the drivers’ seat. With that said, follow the Captains lead, worry about the game at hand and everything will work it self out.
The real question is will the Joba Rules be edited come playoff time???
The Mets better start playing baseball again or your version of heaven might need to be altered.
mel,
Nice article. What amazed me is that these guys(REYES,WRIGHT) have been in the playoffs just one year. While Jeter is Mr. October/November. One of the most clutch guys in pressure situations ever. I cant stand when they write things just to get a reactin out of everyone. He cant hold JETERS JOCK.
if i was the yankees i would start desalvo, igawa, clippard, wright, kennedy and hughes and rest…our top four, also bench jeter and matsui so they can recover
Isn’t listing to Met fans/media outlets who said the Mets were taking over the city, oh I forgot, those types of people have some how disappeared.
“Rest is overrated this time of year.”
No, it is not. Not after 150 plus games, 25 spring training games, spring training, all of the travel, etc.
Sometimes even a few innings off can make a difference…especially on Posada’s legs.
Cay Bucholz,
Couldn’t agree more. All my worst nightmares end with Mussina on the mound in a big spot, with Farnsworth warming in the pen. The guy’s a walking broken mirror who’s already brought us 6 years of crap luck. Please Joe, break the spell.
I say it is defined as eliminating tigers,then beating angels,sox,d-backs. My shrink said that would make me get over the recent playoff failures.
I agree with Peter. But, hey if all works out and we can win the division while avoiding too much work down the stretch for our regulars than it’s a bonus. (But this is a longshot)
No way. Play hard and finish this off.
Speaking of the Tigers, there up 2-1 in the 4th right now..
First they have to make sure they win the playoff spot. THAT is more important. Start giving guys off and dropping games can change all that.
I don’t like the idea of thinking only of playoffs rotations without concern for getting there. They are supposedly on a 6 man rotation. Wang on regular rest because if he gets too much rest he becomes too strong. Does it make sense then to rest him for the playoffs?
Also, we have seen too often that the pitchers who don’t work enough can get “rusty”. Sometimes the rest helps, as with Mussina, but not all the time, as we saw with Edwar and Farnsworth. Remember how Mussina had complained that one of his losses was because of not getting his regular rest and had too much?
They need to make sure they are in solid, then start making decisions like that.
i’ll never forget seeing an ESPN the magazine cover last fall (my roomate’s) refering to Reyes as NY’s best shortstop. like it wasn’t even debatable. rather bold, and a few mets fans i knew at the time agreed…
Rotation is Set
September 19th, 2007 at 12:05 pm
.
Wed Pettitte
Fri Wang
Sat Kennedy
Sun Clemens
Mon Hughes
Tues Pettitte
Wed Wang
Thurs Moose
Fri Clemens
Sat Kennedy
Sun Hughes
GM 1 Pettitte/Wang
GM 2 Pettitte/Wang
They don’t really need to change anything to have them lined up do they?
TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU…this whole discussion is now MOOT…let’s move on ! LOL………*GO YANKEES !*
Joe should manage the games as he has recently. When we get a huge lead you pull your regulars give them rest that way.
Same thing was being said about Ordonez.Best glove yada yada yada. Premature is the best way to describe the Mets fans/media.
saucy I wonder who they’d rather have at the moment. A short stop who busts his butt down the line on a bad knee, or one who hits a ball deep to short and gets thrown out (when he normally would beat it out) by two steps? One that forgets about a bad ab? or one who takes it on the field and makes errors?
Jonathon ….WHEN the Yankees go 9-2, which WILL happen, then the BoSux will have to go 7-3 to win the division…NOT GONNA HAPPEN….The Yankees control their own destiny and WHEN they continue mashing the ball and producing Quality Starts….they will not only win the division…they will be set up perfect for the Post Season quite likely as the #1 seed…Not bad for a team that was totally DEAD on May 29th at 14.5 games back with NO CHANCE at even MAKING the playoffs…
*Today’s Sports Pages*
http://tinyurl.com/34uo6r
Bon Appetit
Middle of the 5th, still 2-1. CC on the mound for the Indians, 89 pitches through 5.
I agree Pete. Though I firmly believe the Yankees should continue to play hard to try to win the division, it should not be at the expense of setting up their rotation for the playoffs, which look increasingly likely, or resting players such as Jeter, Matsui, A-Rod, and Giambi who may have some ailments. Presuming the standings will be as they are now or maybe better in the last week, the Yankees should cycle in some bench players to rest some of the regulars, and set up the rotation by having the starters pitch tune-up starts, nothing too extensive. The playoffs matter most.
I didn’t read all of the comments, so maybe someone brought this up before, but there are 2 (maybe 3) days in between the end of the regular season and the ALDS. The way the rotation is currently set up (if we continue with a 6 man rotation), we can basically do whatever we want, with the exeception of Clemens pitching game 1 if we start on October 3.
Jeter/Matsui etc. get at least 2 and maybe 3 days to rest. Joba/Rivera too.
And also what are the chances that it comes down to the last day? Possible, but it’s more likely that either us or the Sox will clinch before 9/30. So 9/30 (and possibly some days before that) could be rest days as well.
So Pete, I agree with you in theory (i.e. I don’t think I’d pitch Wang on 9/30 if the division was on the line), but really, everyone is going to get all the rest they want no matter what.
KillSchill,
Why are you worried about Toronto’s staff next year? And when was the last time Halladay stayed healthy all year? Ditto Burnett…Yankees with Joba, Hughes, and Kennedy behind Pettite and Wang is more than enough to pitch their way to a division title next year. The Bullpen will be fortified with Additional young guns like Whelan, Robertson, Ohlendorf, Horne, Sanchez, Melancon, JB Cox, Garcia over next few years. The Yankees will have the envoy of every MLB club for a long time.
Robertson is DEALING for detroit today.
Come on cleveland!
1: Align the rotation, Joba and Mo for the playoffs.
2: Stagger the most banged up regulars’ days off until clinching the wild card, but everyone who’s in decent shape has to play all out until it’s clinched.
3: Give everyone a couple days off after clinching the wild card, but not so much time off they can get too flat for a serious playoff series. Play them all the other days, but use the bench in late innings.
Boston’s already doing this, which is partly why NY might be able to win the division.
*Poll: It’s The Hindenburg and The Titanic rolled into one*
The Boston Globe Polled Red Sox Nation today, and here’s the carnage (so far the life boats are filling up!!):
http://tinyurl.com/2ox5s3
“I just hope Derek doesn’t hear that Peter is writing about his knee. I think he’s made it very clear that, “The knee’s fine. There’s nothing wrong with my knee.â€?”
Jeter has the same knee condition as Ortiz, and the same one Manny had last season. The knee is not fine, but he is able to play through the pain.
In other words … we should start gearing up for the playoffs now, but we still have to be sure to make it there or its all for naught.
Winning the division vs the wild card is for pride and maybe an extra home game in October. But ultimately it’s not so important once the first pitch is thrown in the playoffs.
Question: If the Yankees clinch the wild card, before the soxs the division will the Yankees hold off the celebration in the off chance that they win the division?
*hope I’m clear*
The Division title is VERY important to me. Not only because I WANT to win the division, but also for our performance in the playoffs. The difference is not just between playing against the Angels or the Indians, the difference is between we having to travel up to 18000 miles (upto 3 times round trip in 8 days @ 3000 miles) and Boston and our potential LCS opponent having to travel 18000 miles. The difference is having Wang pitch 2 times on road Vs having him pitch 2 times at the stadium.
Whatever it takes to keep up their edge (Not the Ford Edge of the Jeter commericals–what color was it).
The reason WC teams win the WS is that they go to the end of the season never letting up, and continue their streaks into the post-season.
Joe has been doing a great job of rotating people in and out lately, so I think everyone will get enough rest.
Wang is going to pitch two more to try to get to 20 wins–he deserves it. Mussina needs to give them 1-2 more good start to establish trust. Clemens clearly wants to pitch two more. Pettite the same–who knows if they will ever pitch in the regular season again? That’s 8 starts right there.
Should they pitch Karstens or Desalvo against Baltimore in the last series of the season, if they are out of the division lead by one game? Great question. Personally, I would pitch Kennedy or Hughes in that spot.
Question for you guys. If Moose continues to pitch out of his mind and is still on the team next year. Assuming Pettitle is back.
a.Do we start Kennedy in aaa
B.keep Joba in the bullpen
c.Start Hughes in aaa
d.Go with a 6 man rotation(never going to happen)
CLEVELAND JUST TIED THE GAME!
Dr. Acula – the really great part of the Herald coverage (from the back page you linked to) is the Massarotti article that basically tells Boston to be happy they’re going to the playoffs and the division title is no big deal.
“It means a lot, but it means nothing as far as winning a World Series,� Sox manager Terry Francona said before the game when asked about the importance of a division title. “It means a lot for what you set out to accomplish, I think. I don’t think there’s any getting around that, and I don’t think we want to. But when it’s all said and done, it won’t have any bearing on how far we get into the postseason.�
Same discussion we’re having, only backwards!
Sorry took the lead 3-2
3-2 indians. good thing i mentioned that roberts was dealing
robertson i mean
Look, we ain’t won squat yet. Go ahead, have your fun, but c’mon, ease up on the triumphalism a tad, most of you sound like Red Sox fans in May.
We got some banged up guys, some hitting slumps going, and two weeks worth of games to play and work to do…
pittsburgh yankee: blazing copper.
WHEELS FALLING OFF OF THE tiggers. down 4-2
We need to win the division, period.
“I mean as far as game 3 being a big game.. Whos a better big game pitcher than Roger?”
Pettitte is a better big game pitcher.
Pittsburgh Yankee; I believe it was Blazing Copper???
S.o.S
thats a very good question.
Figure..
Wang
Pettitte
Moose
Hughes
Joba
Definitly makes Kennedy the oddman out..
I think you put him in the BP, with the knowledge that hes a starter the next season..
Maybe thats not the way to go, but im so pro-make-joba-a-starter that I dont want him in the BP for a whole year next year..
Like Jeter drives a Ford Edge
Still surprised by Mussina’s last 2 games. You could see it in his face & body language he’s different than last month. I was sure he was washed up last month (and at the time he was) but I’m not as sure anymore.
Still should keep an eye on how he’s doing as the playoffs draw nearer, and as they start. He was doing pretty badly for while there.
Dman,
Wouldnt it be better to put Kennedy in a AAA rotation so he is working on his endurance.Than maybe call him up in July to the bullpen? Thats offcoarse assuming no pitcher gets hurt before that time.(NOT HAPPENING)
Lori-
Talk ’bout White Flags!
Even funnier, Massarotti entire column is defeatest, BUT he doesn’t know it – HA!
Even more fun, read through the comments link the story!
http://tinyurl.com/yqxzuj
You are spot on Pete! This is the same thing that happened in 2004. We spent too much energy getting the Division title while the Red Sox pulled back and took a rest. Along came game 4 of the ALCS and we were done. Let’s pull back, regroup and rest for the playoffs. Red Sox nation knows they choked. They’re ready to jump off the building, hide their pink Sox hats and pull out their Patriot crap and claim they like football better than baseball. I would rather see the boys in pinstripes raising the 40th American League Pennant beside the 27th World Champion Flag next April than a crappy division flag. This would be fitting way to start off the new season in the last season in the old house in the Bronx
Jennifer,
Hold off on the celibration. Boston would see that and crap their pants. Knowing that Yanks are after going for the division crown.
I’d say most teams never go thru the entire year with the starting pitching they invisioned. Look at us
Pavano- GONE ENTIRE YEAR
Igawa- stunk
Pettitte
Moose
Wang
Anyone that puts winning the div ahead of setting up the playoff run shouldn’t be posting here.
S.o.S
Yah that is probably the best course to go. Getting regular starts is probably a better idea for him. Hopefully they do call him up at some point though.
I wonder what they’ll do with Igawa.. They’ve got a lot of money invested in him.
Igawa should be either traded or converted into a bullpen guy. We have plenty of young studs comming up in the minors the next year or two. Call san diego in the offseason and see if they will make the pot sweeter for an Igawa trade. Maybe for a young catcher or a first baseman.
Have our Cake and eat it too.
The way boston is crumbling, we can setup for the post season and still nab the divison. We can do both.
Papi struck out 6 times in the last two games!
Nothing we do is gonna change that.
Is there any indication that Joba will be used as a starter in the post-season? I know they talk about him being a starter next year, but I havent heard anyone say anything about him starting this year at all.
as for igawa… i wouldnt be surprised if he was added to the expanded roster… maybe he can eat up a few innings after we clinch a playoff spot or something.
i hate the red sox. i love when they lose, i love when they lose games like last night. anything negative on the field is good for me as a yankees fan.
Do i want to win the division? Sure.
Do i want boston to lose games and lose confidence? Of course.
Do i think we should be throwing joba and mo out for two innings a piece the rest of the season? Absolutely not.
21-29 to start and we’re almost in the playoffs? I’d have signed up for all road games if you told me at this point we’d have a magic number of 7 with two weeks to go for the wild card
This may have been said before, but here goes:
I, for one, think winning the Division (and best record) is important, in both the ALDS, and the ALCS. Having the ability to dictate the preferred travel schedule for this year’s ALDS (new in 2007) and possibly play at home for a game 7 in the ALCS could be the difference in winning the ALCS.
The ALDS is a crap-shoot at best, and can turn on the littlest of things, as we saw last year. Game 2 is the most important game in a 5-gamer (game 3 in a 7).
I think if you have a chance to maintain momentum by winning, as well as gain the home field, it is worth playing out the string. A few factors impact my opinion:
1) The Yankees’ bench is SO much stronger this year than in past seasons, that the “regulars” can still get rest, while keeping the others sharp, without a great drop-off in production;
2) The pitching (both SP and RP) is also SOOO much better than last year (the four starters in the ALDS were Wang, Mussina, Johnson and Wright… I would dare say Wang, Pettitte, Clemens, Kennedy is a far sight better for the good guys);
3) There shouldn’t be a lot of long rests for the SP, as Wang needs to be kept on as close to “normal” a schedule as possible (we’ve seen how he performs when he’s TOO rested);
4) Athletes are geared to compete. Given a choice, they would prefer to “finish the job” than concede a chance to dictate terms, if for no other reason, the psychological factor. (Of course that only works if you have the horses to back it up, which for the first time in years, the Yankees do.)
5) See 4 above… this year’s roster is not last year’s by any stretch. They have been torching the competition since July 2; there is no reason to let up now.
Theo’s black eye?
http://yanksfansoxfan.typepad......keye_2.jpg
(tis a joke)
Thanks for the color–I knew it was copper something.
I agree with those who say the Division is not important.
However, it’s game 162. You are down 0.5 to Boston. Do you go for it, or let the players manage the game and screw it?
pete’s question was a hypothetical. the reality is that this team has been all over the charts all year so, i wouldn’t be counting our chickens just yet. we all woke up with the yankees in a much better position than we thought they’d be after saturday’s blow out loss.
just as things have changed quickly for the better they could go the other way. my hunch is the yankees will go pretty close to the end before clinching . as some have pointed out this may be the best scenario anyway because the team will be sharp for the playoffs.
Yankees Chick-
With the way Moose pitched, and with Kennedy as a back-up, there shouldn’t be any real need to use Joba as a starter I wouldn’t think.
I think the real question with Joba is, will they throw out the Joba rules come the post season?
A clarifying footnote to my post:
The number one priority should be to keep your SP lined up for the post-season. Given that, however, the push should continue, as opined above.
Sunny 615,
That is an excellent analogy!
We don’t need another postseason starter. We need Joba in the bullpen in the postseason.
yankee chick-
a reliever can’t be stretched back out that fast for the playoffs. that is not even an option the team would even look at.
love your site by the way. it’s different and original and that’s a compliment.
I could care less about the division.
I just like that we finally made Boston work. All their guys got a free pass all yr.
Lugo, Drew, Dice K, Crisp, etc
A little pressure is what we needed on them.
i don’t think we should trade igawa until at least after spring training
i think the yanks want to see something more substantial from him before they just dump him off for basically nothing
What should they do with Igawa?
I don’t know what they really CAN do … if they can’t trade him in the off-season maybe they could sell him off for science experiments. Other than that, he really shouldn’t play any games other than the ones between clinching a playoff spot and the end of the season.
If he warms up in the bullpen with less than a 10-run differential in the game, NY should immediately fire whoever made the call.
Nobody mentioned that Nancy Drew should have caught that ball last night in the 8th.
There’s no need to mess with anything as far as Joba is concerned. He may be a rookie going into the postseason, but he has the resolve to handle any tight relief spot in the playoffs. The only Joba Rule that I would possibly toy with is the fact that he MIGHT come in during the middle of an inning, notice that I just said might. Given Igawa or Villone as a left-handed reliever to go on the postseason roster, I would have to choose Igawa. Igawa strikes out more hitters, plus he gives the element of surprise, because not nearly as many teams have faced him, whereas everyone knows about Ron Villone.
Whoever says that Joba should be a starter in the post season should have their heads examined.
Now that the regular season is almost over, who had a better year:
Sheffield or Bobby?
Lets compare stats
Why trade Igawa?
Its not like they need to dump his small salary. And yes, 5 mill for a competent starter is small these days.
andy – you mean you could NOT care less
Abreu had the better yr.
What team is in the playoffs?
Bobby also played RF everyday and Sheff DH’d. Plus hes 7 yrs younger.
Peter, someone may have already made this point, but I believe Joe specifically plans to start Wang in Game 3, under all circumstances, because Wang’s ERA is almost 2.00 ERs lower at home than it is on the road. The guys on YES were talking about this a couple of nights ago. It didn’t sound like they were speculating, maybe they were, it sounded like one of them had actually talked to Joe about it or that Joe had said it in front of the reporters.
The day since that squirrel appered on the foul pole there is not stopping the yanks. I am not really superstitious but then again…
No. It’s I could care less.
Just like I feel about the division.
I don’t want them to get complacent. As long as Andy Pettite is slated to pitch Game 2, the rotation doesn’t really matter. You’d like to see Wang pitch at home, but that’s about it. I think we should take both Hughes and Kennedy to back up Clemens and Moose.
If Clemens pitches like he did the other night, it won’t matter where Wang goes because it is only going three games anyway.
The Yankees need to be concerned with life after the regular season. The way things are now, I do belive the East is locked up. Contine for now to play good, consistent ball and YES, get some much needed rest. If Boston gives it away so be it.
And just for laughs
http://www.bostondirtdogs.com/
Bobby also doesn’t cause any off-the-field problems. Thank goodness we no longer have to worry about Sheffield causing problems in the Yankee clubhouse and shooting his mouth off. All things considered, I’m ecstatic that Sheffield is no longer on the team!
I thought there were 3 days off at the end of the season before Game #1 of the ALDS. If that is the case, it seems like the only issue will be too much rest for the starters not too little. Can’t see how Joba will be affected at all.
Funny stuff.
One of the Red Sox message boards has a 2007 Yankees thread. Some of the posts from earlier in the season are funny.
http://p075.ezboard.com/Its-ba.....66354frm13
Some people got their priorities wrong.
Worrying about Igawa’s situation??
You have to be kidding me.
To add to my earlier point, Sheffield would also likely be a rotten influence on our youngsters, such as Joba, Phil Franchise, and IPK. I blame him for some of the issues with last year’s team. There are no hidden agendas now!!
I’m a little late on this today…actually really late on responding, but I would try to win the division just to avoid the angels. A matchup against them first round is just asking for an early ticket home. At least let Boston beat them for us (or at the very least wear them out).
When it comes to post season, aren’t the only guys elgible the ones that were on the 25 man roster BEFORE Sept 1? That would make Igawa and Kennedy and more not available unless someone goes on the DL???
A random thought about Abreu:
I was stunned at the time and now it is even more ironic, that the Red Sox opted NOT to trade for Abreu because they didn’t want to pay the additional tax on his salary?! But they dump tons more into Lugo and Drew?!
Theo at his best.
Are they lining up Pettitte, Wang right now? If that’s the case then Pettitte might be the #1 starter and Wang would be the #2 if we start at home. If we start on the road and Joe wants Wang to start at the Stadium then you slide him to the #3. Just give Clemens lots of rest & cortisone, let Wang pitch at home on not too much rest. I like Wang as the #1, but if Joe, Andy, & Wang are are comfortable with it I can see Andy taking the ball in the first game. It’s crazy to have your ace pitching 3rd, but a 2-run difference in road ERA is pretty significant and Andy’s not too shabby.
C.C. might of wrapped up the cy young today. 7 innings 2 runs.
marc: we had the better season not having to deal with Sheff’s crap.
Indians just need 3 more outs…
Waterdog: since Pavano was on the 60 day DL and still unavailable, someone can be put on the post season roster to replace him who was not on the 25 man roster. I think that’s the only addition thta can happen.
Isn’t Kennedy available bc Pavano got DL’ed?
Lori: correct. Kennedy, or someone else who was added after Sept 1 if they so choose, can be added because Pavano is still on the DL. Unless Pavano is suddenly healed. Like that would happen.
SECRET WEAPON?
Is Doug alphabet the Tony Fernandez of the 2000’s. It seemed like any team Tony went to they were either winning the World Series or in it.Doug went to the sox in 04 and whala, they win the series. All I have to say is if he helps us win the W.S. this year, he can keep the ball.
Do we trust Borowski to get the last 3 outs?
yes pat, maybe not in a row, but yes.
Yeah, Pete had an article a couple of weeks ago about how Pavano’s spot came open. Kennedy’s going to fill the spot.
See how the weekend plays out but mostly, rest them and line up the rotation but not to the extent that we did last year where everyone came out flat. I would think that can’t happen this year, since we’re not clinching anything with 2 or 3 weeks to go as we did last year. So play out the weekend and see where we are come Monday/Tuesday, but line-up the rotation and rest guys who are hurting.
Then the question becomes, is it worth going to the game in Baltimore next Saturday or would I be watching a squad of second stringers….?
6
SWEEP!!
magic number to 6.
it will be 5 by tonight
INDIANS!!!!
Magic number JOE TORRE!!!
Cleveland wins 4-2 and the Tigers have completely lost their bite!
Tigers lose 4-2..
Hey – Joba’s on baseballchannel.tv this afternoon . . .
“Joba Chamberlain, whose 100-mph fastball and 94-mph slider has wowed the American League since he joined the Yankees last month, will be Casey Stern’s guest on the Players Talk Live segment of “Bottom Line” today at 4:05 p.m. ET.”
i cant believe detroit just folded up like this
leyland must be furious
Jennifer- That sounds great and after tonight the number could equal the Yankee Clipper!!
Hopefully they will archieve it, I won’t be able to watch live.
Lori: Is that channel on DISH network by any chance? I would love to see the spot.
Magic number is 6. Gotta love it.
Never mind. Duh…. I should have looked at mlb.com first before asking. Hope the Yankees are more clear headed than I am today.
I think it is all on-line – if you go to the Yankees website there is a link to it and it just pops up on the screen.
I’m stuck in Cardinal and Brave land, so I only get to watch the Yankees games that are on ESPN or Fox.
Leyland had a 22 second post-game press conference last night. 22 seconds!
Here’s what he said: “We had chances against Jake (Westbrook) tonight and didn’t take advantage of them. That’s it. Anything else? Ok, good night”.
To say he is unhappy with his team is an understatement!
I agree with you Peter. It’s more important to be ready for the post season than win the division and lose in the 1st round!
“I was stunned at the time and now it is even more ironic, that the Red Sox opted NOT to trade for Abreu because they didn’t want to pay the additional tax on his salary?!”
the red sox did a total about face as a team spending philosophy when they finished in third place. trying to go in the direction of younger and cheaper isn’t so easy if you’re a major market team and you don’t make the playoffs. the yankees are finding that out this year. they have to make the playoffs for the revenue.
peter wrote a good post on vince gennaro , the writer who wrote about the cost of not making the playoffs for big market teams. in his way of thinking he probably thinks arod is worth 35 million a year to the yankees, but maybe to no one else. i’m thinking he’s probably right if he thinks that.
randy I = scott boras
: )
I agree with you Pete for the most part, but why not wait until after the weekend and see where you’re at. If they are still 2-3 games out on Tuesday, they will still have plenty of time to rest everybody.
I knew Sheff wouldn’t be productive the whole year as with Randy Johnson. I have not seen one article giving Cashman credit for not keeping Sheffield(batting .267), Jaret Wright(out for the year) and RJ(Out for the year)!
Good point, Marc. Wright and Johnson may never pitch again, even though they’ll both try. It’s moves like those and the success of our farm system that should get Cashman at least some consideration for Executive of the Year.
Why compromise? The yankees will align their starters for the playoffs, while still pitching good, solid games. We do have ian kennedy to give us some flexibility. We rest regular starters, while our bench players play hard, and we still win games. The red sox collapse. We take the division, AND have rested starters. The sawks go to face the angels while we crush the indians at home, and then slaughter the sox in yankee stadium, after which we win the world series.
Sounds good, no?
I want to pitch and earn my signing bonus. Rest the regulars!
After clinching the division on the next to last day of the 2005 season, Torre gave most of the team off the last game. This resulted in a 10-1 loss to the Red Sox and gave the Angels home field in the first round. I think the Yankees would have won game 5 if it were at the stadium. Considering the Yankees home/road records this year, they should keep the pedal to the metal as long as there is a chance.
The Tigers would have to absolutely run the table to stand a chance. Meanwhile, the Yankees won’t be just watching it happen.
I’ll stick my neck out and consider the Wild Card a done deal. Time for the Yankees to go full bore after Boston with 11 games to go and 1 game in hand.
Angels stadium is the absolute worst place to play. They have those stupid clap sticks (since apparently it is too difficult to actually clap your hands) They make it so loud. (see bubba and sheff).
“randy I = scott boras”
boy, do i wish.
Anyone who thinks the Yankees should go “full bore” should check out Joe Sheehan’s column today at Baseball Prospectus (subscription required). Anyone think the Tigers’ or Cardinals’ pennants from last year mean less because they nearly collapsed near the end? That the Red Sox or Marlins (’03 & ‘97) championships because they were the wild card?
We didn’t lose to Anaheim in ‘05 because we weren’t at home, we lost because Moose pitched terribly and Erwin Santana did not. Resting Jeter, A-Rod, Posada, Cano, Giambi, Mo, and Vizcaino is absolutely essential to winning the World Series, which is what this is all about, right?
my question would be “what happens if moose blows up again?” or “what happens if roger’s elbow blows out?”. who do they use then?
i agree that chamberlain is probably not a viable option for a starter… but I do hope that the joba rules will be relaxed. i would imagine that they will be, since they wont be having to try to save his arm anymore.
I think Jeter could use some time off to fully heal. Melky looks like he could use a few days of rest. Posada should be rested a bit because he won’t get many days off in the playoffs. If they are concerned with Joba’s and Kennedy’s overall innings, they should be careful how much they use those guys the rest of the way assuming Kennedy would even make the post season roster.
But in general, I’m for a push for some home field advantage and would love to see them face Cleveland rather than the Angels in the first round if possible. I recognize that the first round opponent is as much dependent on how the Indians and Angels perform as by winning the division though. I’m less concerned with how the starting pitchers line up in a five game series. Everyone is pitching fairly well right now but I don’t look at any of our starters matched up against Lackey or Sabathia and think, “I like that matchup.”
I was just looking at the postseason schedule, and there are all kind of rest days in there.
9/19- Pettite
9/20- Off
9/21- Wang
9/22- Clemens
9/23- Mussina
9/24- Hughes
9/25- Pettite
9/26- Wang
9/27- Clemens
9/28- Mussina
9/29- Hughes
9/30- Kennedy
10/1- Off
10/2- Off
10/3- Pettite (ALDS)
10/4- Off
10/5- Wang (ALDS)
10/6- Off
10/7- Clemens (ALDS)
Now, that assumes they play the “B” schedule- the “A” schedule would move the 10/4 off day to 10/3, but the point remains. All the Yanks have to do is pitch Kennedy that last day, and as it stands the starters would get 8 days of rest before their postseason starts.
So Torre has a lot of flexibility with the starters. He should probably give the big names in the pen (Mo, the Viz, Joba, Farnsy) late next week, and I think he needs to rest the position players too (esp. ARod, Jorge, and Jeter). But there’s plenty of wiggle room with those starters.
YC, I would think that Hughes and Kennedy would get the nod if Rocket and Moose become unavailable.
Rest? they can all rest in November
Rest is overated except for the starting pitching and Mo. You rest the hitters you risk messing with their timing. As I said before this team is deep enough that we can have our cake and eat it too. Full steam ahead boys…We overcome a 14 1/2 game deficit and win it all it’ll be one for the ages!
I agree Pete and I’m glad you brought this thought provoking idea up. They should rest Pettite and Wang and especially Joba, Viz, Clemens and Mo. I’m sure Cashman will let Joe use Joba on consecutive days, depending on pitch count.
I have a scenario for you, I hope you read this. What if the yankees are .5 game out with 1 game to play. Cleveland has 3 more wins than Anaheim, meaning that the Wild Card team will play Cleveland. If you’re the Yankees, would you consider losing that game on purpose so that the Yankees will play Cleveland (who they’re 6-0 against) or Anaheim (who has given them absolute hell in the regular and postseason)? I understand the Yankees didn’t face CC Sabathia this year, but still, CC and Carmona match up with Anaheim’s top as well.
What would you do? Of course Joe, Jete & Co. would never admit they lost on purpose, but what if it means an easier advancement in the post season?
thoughts?
Gerry,
I don’t think you could ever lose on purpose but maybe you start Igawa or Karstens and rest most of the starters and let the chips fall as they may under that scenario.
As I said earlier, I’d much rather face Cleveland than Anaheim and think that would have more bearing on how far they advance than how the starting staff is lined up.