A lot for Cashman to consider
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Sep 21, 2007 
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In talking to Brian Cashman about Bobby Abreu for the story I was working on, we got to chatting about all the decisions he’s going to have to make once the season is over. It’s quite a list:
Team option: Bobby Abreu ($16 million).
Player option: Alex Rodriguez (terminate contract), Andy Pettitte ($16 million).
Free agents: Doug Mientkiewicz, Jose Molina, Jorge Posada, Mariano Rivera, Luis Vizcaino.
In theory, you want to keep all of those guys. Certainly Abreu, A-Rod, Pettitte, Rivera and Posada. Do they have enough money to do all that? I think having so many young, inexpensive starters helps that cause. Plus Roger comes off the books and you’ll lose Giambi after 2008.
The Yankees figure to spend a lot of dough by Thanksgiving.
But as Cashman said several times, that’s all for later. For now they have games to focus on.
I agree you must keep all of them. I think I would also add Luiz to the list or at least push extremely hard to keep him because I can’t see letting him go and leaving us with an even more depleted bullpen.
I think Mientkiewicz and Molina will be gone (although I wish Molina would stay) and my gut feeling is Abreu, ARod and the old guard will remain, but what about Viz? He’s certainly been valuable, but what price do you put on that? If he becomes a free agent will he get offers that rival Farnsworth’s deal? Is he worth that much? Given the dearth of reliable set up men, I worry that some team is going to offer him ridiculous money.
bring back viz at 2 yrs and $3 mill a yr. else let him walk. they have cox, sanchez and many younger cheaper options on the way.
Molina will probably come back. iwould sign him for 1 yr at a few mill(the=at is overmarket but only 1 yr.)
the Yanks need to get younger and continue the remake; they should try to trade either Damon or Giambi…
they should also trade Igawa and Farnsworth if they can….
Molina has been very reliable as a back up… I would keep him too
Edwar will probably be setting up for Mo next season. He’s got some great stuff and has regained control.
Pavanos off the books after next year right? Can they release him?
After thinking about it more, I think that the Betemit for Proctor deal did not turn out in our favor. Betemit warms the bench more than anything else and has done poorly as of late.
Another tough match up tonight for Wang. Too bad he has to stuck with 18 wins for the rest of the season. It would be nice to see Wang winning 20 games.
yea like you said Peter, obviously you would like to keep all of them but it wont be that easy with cash and competition. To me without much a replacement out their in the outfield you have to pick up Abreu’s option even if you don’t like him. Arod of course we hope stays, but that is simply his decision we cant do anything about it. As far as rivera and posada, again we can certainly use them back and it is a no brainer to try and resign them. I wonder Peter if you have any idea whether there is or if you think there will be any discomfort or animosity between (posada, rivera) and the front office with their policy of no extensions inseason. Has this even arose as a problem? or were they offended by it? I’m curious to see what kind impact this may have. As far as Molina he has really impressed me and it seems the yankees staff with his play. I think he enjoys playing here but im sure there will be teams wanting his services. I still think we should try and resign him. Vizcaino would not be a bad investment once again as there is not much of a free agent bullpen market. Minky would be great to have as an occasional start and defense, but i dont know how betemit, phillips, maybe even duncan will fare in gauging whether or not well have space for Minky. It is important to rate this offseason’s free agent market when trying to decide who to resign.
I just can’t picture Mo or Poasada in any other uniform…
Mr. January…”Too bad he has to stuck with 18 wins” ? When you’re being ridiculous and negative, try to make a LITTLE sense. Wang has a very good chance to get to 20 wins with the run support he is getting and the fact that he is a very good pitcher. I would assume that you are either a BoSux fan or a true Negative Nancy. Either way, your opinion on how “stuck” Wang is, means nothing.
Pete,
Are you 100% sure that Roger has ZERO intention of pitching another year ?
“The Don”
Edwar will never pitch 8th innings for the Yankees. He’s not that type of pitcher.
You have a better chance of seeing Chamberlain in the 8th inning next year than Edwar.
Edwar will most likely make the team. However, he will be a 6th-7th inning guy. Especially because of his ability to pitch multiple innings.
Between Hughes, Kennedy, Chamberlain, Melky, Ramirez, Cano and Wang, that’s a lot of talent for not a lot of money.
It will give them the flexibility to keep the free agents they want to keep.
When Giambi, Abreu and Moose come off the books for 2008, it opens up more options.
The emergence of the younger players gives the Yankees more options (in terms of retaining certain FA’s) than they had in March.
pardon me if this has already been posted, but I think Gossage is absolutely correct here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09.....ref=slogin
Keep Molina, Posada, Viz, Abreu, A-Rod, and Rivera. Pettitte will exercise his option. The bullpen will be fine. You have Sanchez, Ohlendorf, Whelan, Robertson, Veras, and Melancon. You can sign Kerry Wood, Keji Uehara, or maybe Brandan Donnelly.
I think Mussina, Giambi, and maybe Damon will be traded. Matsui should DH, with Damon playing LF, Cabrera in CF, Abreu in RF and Gardener as 4th outfielder. Yankees should trade for a first baseman or put Shelley there.
I would imagine Rivera would retire before signing anywhere else. Posada is probably 90/10 Yankees.
Still, can’t worry about it now.
We’ve got a ring to win first.
I don’t like Igawa anymore than the next guy. In fact I really don’t like him. But the Yankees gave him an absurd amount of money that they are surely regretting right now. Igawa is a lefty and it would be a shame to see him leave, get developed into somewhat of a decent middle relief/ 5th starter (and I say both of those hesitantly) while the Yankees pay for it. He’s shown some good signs, and oh so many bad signs.
I really don’t even know. He’s a huge headache, and every time he warms up I get scared. Just leave him in Trenton, help them win another championship. 100 % aware of the 20 billion contradictions I just typed.
this from buster olney, take for what it is:
“Friends of A-Rod don’t think he would be interested in playing in the National League. We’ll see. Some within the Yankees’ organization wonder if any team will be willing to pay A-Rod as much as the Yankees can pay him; others think that it’s all but a lock that A-Rod will leave the Yanks”
Don’t forget Pavano coming off the books either!
How are Mussina and Giambi going to be traded? They have full no trade clauses.
Who is going to play Jason Giambi 22 million next year? That’s what he is making in 2008.
Moose isn’t going anywhere. He has stated many times how much he loves playing in NY and 2008 is most likely his last year. He’s not approving any trade.
Damon has a limited no trade clause and may look to leave after the season. It wouldn’t shock me if he wanted out.
But, Giambi and Moose aren’t going anywhere. Nobody is taking on that money for guys on the last legs of their careers.
I read that Gossage article and passed it off as a mere
‘silly idea’ from a great yankee. He made some good points, but I just don’t see how it happens next year.
Buster really going out on a limb there, isn’t he? lol
I don’t see Arod going to the NL. He’s an AL guy.
Its probably Anaheim or the Yankees. Hopefully, its a latter.
Logically, it makes sense for Arod to stay in NY. But, logic sometimes doesn’t take hold.
You hope Arod makes the smart move this time and not just chase the last buck on the table. He looks awfully comfortable in NY and why upset the apple cart when you don’t have to?
Its not like the Yankees are going to lowball him.
We have to keep the team together,there is obviously good chemistry among the guys,maybe Damon ,Farnsworth and Igawa can be traded.We must keep A-ROD,Bobby and all the gang.
For now lets concentrate on the AL EAST and the PLayoffs.
Nate,
Here is the only way I see Joba staying in the bullpen for next season.
Hughes and Kennedy are lights out in the spring, securing their spots in the rotation alongside Moose, Wang and Pettitte. The Yankees won’t go with an “all-kid” rotation.
To keep Joba’s innings from an abnormal increase, they keep him in the bullpen for one more year. He goes into the rotation in 2008, after Andy and Moose retire.
That’s the only scenario I can envision in which Joba stays in the bullpen. Absent that, he will be in the rotation next year.
Some interesting stuff on BP today:
“According to our research in Baseball Between the Numbers, the home team wins a whopping 51.5% of the time in a 5-game series, and 51.3% of the time in a 7-game series, assuming that it is of equal quality to the road team; that’s what the Red Sox and Yankees are fighting for.”
“Here is a breakdown of Gagne’s key peripheral indicators in Boston and Texas:
Team K% BB% GB/FB QERA BABIP
Texas 21.8% 9.0% 1.19 3.76 .236
Boston 21.4% 10.0% 0.67 4.35 .468
In the two most reliable indicators of pitching performance — strikeout and walk rate — Gagne has been exactly the same pitcher in Boston that he was in Texas. And that is a pitcher with decent but unremarkable talent. The 2002-2004 Eric Gagne was incredibly good. The 2007 version is — I don’t know — a rich man’s Ryan Dempster.”
“
Hey guys,
I just looked at what Scott Proctor has been up to lately and guess what?… He has not given up a run in 12 innings!
His numbers since the Mets game on Aug 24th are Joba like.
I am just saying.
What’s the big to-do about Pavano? That’s why there’s insurance. I’m pretty sure 90% of Pavano’s insurance is covered by the Yankees’ insurance plan. The only thing Pavano is really costing them is the bile that rises to their throat when they look at the Yankee roster and see him on the 60-day DL.
Do you really think they’ll resign Mienktkiewicz? I mean, I love the guy and I’d love to see him back, but I was never under the impression that they were considering it. With Miranda, Phillips, and Duncan, I would imagine that 1B is going to be pretty fully.
I think Posada is going to get 3 for 36, Rivera will get 3 for 42-48. I think Pettitte will decline his option and ask for a new 2-3 year deal for 16m a year.
Molina should absolutely be brought back. Cervellie is at least a year away from being ready to be a backup.
I posted the Gossage piece above, but accidentally under a diff handle -
Anyway, why not? Gossage and Araton are very persuasive, no? The set-up guy has such a huge impact on many many games. The Yanks have IPK and Hughes to add to the rotation, save Joba for set-up and eventual closeer.
I’m pretty sure 90% of Pavano’s insurance is covered by the Yankees’ insurance plan. – that should be “contract”
Pete, giddyup on the registration already. We need that edit button.
People that want Joba in the bullpen are even slower than those that still question re-signing A-Rod.
sj – i think your ‘all-kid’ rotation point is a very interesting one. i love our three young pitchers, but after the arm troubles around the league i think our innings counts will be very important next year. can we depend on 3 guys not to wear down over the season? that is a lot to ask.
just yesterday the giants shut down Lincecum to make sure he was ready for next year(you guys may not know of him, but i live in San Francisco and he’s the most exciting thing going for the giants right now, pretty sad).
One guy who will probably fall below the radar with A-Rod, Posada, and Mo being the focus is Doug M. Has anyone else noticed his spectacular defense since he has returned? The guy is not a great hitter, but when your lineup is filled with big time sluggers, you can afford a weaker bat when he can field like that.
It’s funny, I agree with Pete and would be very happy to retain all of those players. Abreu is without a doubt the most maddening player at times, and his slumps have you pulling your hair out, but when he’s on, HE’S ON. He is a heckuva #3 hitter at times, and I would rather keep him another year than give overrated Torii Hunter a multi year pact.
SJ44,
I like to dream that I can trade Giambi and Mussina. That’s all I have as far as those two go for next year. I know they have no-trade clauses, but I figured that Cashman could work his magic to make those trades happen.
“The guy is not a great hitter, but when your lineup is filled with big time sluggers, you can afford a weaker bat when he can field like that.”
Speaking of dumb arguments…
He has not given up a run in 12 innings!
True, but proctor pitches in the NL. Melido Perez would be a cy young in the NL
I think you can absolutely count on one of the starters going on the DL at some point next year…hence the need for as many starters as you can. That’s why I’m not worried about the innings caps as one of them will end up on the DL.
As for the Giants shutting their pitcher down…they are not in the playoff hunt. Were they in a race, I would bet they would keep him going.
Nate: Out in SF, what is the feeling about Bonds now? Any chance they resign him? or is he done in SF and perhaps in baseball?
Hey, I’m happy either way – just thrilled that Joba’s here. But to infer that anyone that thinks keeping him in the pen is “slow”, doesn’t say much about your grasp of how the game is played
Bosco, that is not a dumb argument at all. It is about the total output of the lineup and the sum defense in the field. There are times you can afford to sacrifice production at one spot when you are getting above-average production at what are generally considered the weaker offensive production spots.
E-Roc, I just don’t see anyone out there wanting Giambi and his $22M price tag….unless the Yankees agreed to send a lot of money with him to his new team. And I don’t see that happening.
Moose’s price tag is a bit more reasonable, if he can maintain the level he’s shown the past two starts. But, the creature of habit he is, I don’t see him waiving his no-trade clause.
phil – i agree.
on bonds: it is like he is dead to the whole city since the record. the whole season seemed like a circus side show to just see some record happen at at&t park. i found it amusing how much it was all about the number 755 rather then this guy with a big head.
but that is just my take, and i’ve only lived here 2 years
guys, i’ve been lurking for a while but wanted to say hi 4 my 1st post. big yanks fan in PA and luv coming 2 the site to get yanks info and read some great posts. SJ44, Phil, u guys make great info, smart posts. i LUV becca’s optimism!!!! thanks PETE for the site!!!
Bosco simply labels a position he disagrees with as “dumb” or “slow”. Very trenchant analysis there Bosco.
I think Abreu is gone or signed for a new deal for less money than 16M/yr. I would love to see a 3/36 for him or something simialr to that.
Posada and Mo are back. Let’s not think otherwise bc there’s just no way they let them walk w/out any valuable replacement guy on the FA market or in the system.
Minky would be great to have come back. If nothing else he can spell Giambi at first after inning 6. Plus Giambi will pull something in May and be shut down for awhile. Minky seems to be unselfish and is also a very cheap option.
Another 1yr deal for him at like $2M sounds ok to me.
betemit is our Util guy on the bench…fine whatever. He’s an upgrade over Cairo at least.
Molina has to come back. He’s the best backup catcher they have had since Posada backed up Giradi.
Let Viz go. No way his arm can take another Torre season anyway.
i hope they all come back . but the one guy thats flies in under the radar is molina . as we all saw this year , the bench can play a big role . things realy picked up once molina , phillips and betemit all came up and/or over .
of course signing jorge and mo are huge but lets not forget about the little guys .
Man Peter, it’s like you can read my mind. I was thinking about this last night. Who else do we need to sign besides A-Rod, Posada, and Rivera after the season? And you have answers before I can ask the question!!! Thanks- love the blog, I send it to at least 1 new Yankee fan a week!!!
Nate: So no chance Bonds is back next year in SF?
I love that ballpark on the water. Got a chance to go to a game there 2 years ago and had a great time.
One of my graduating students took a trip to every major league ballpark this summer with his dad before he started down at VA Tech. When he got back, he said his three favorite parks were: Orioles, Giants, and Wrigley.
Obviously the Yankees have to keep the “core” guys who have proved they can do it. IF they sign all of them, the 2008 payroll won’t be much higher than this year since those players will still be making about the same. They lose Roger’s $18 million and they can actually start to create a BENCH for 2008. I’m presuming that Damon gets traded. One too many ducks on this pond and he’s the easiest of them to trade without hurting the team. If Giambi’s contract had been expiring this year, Damon could stay and Torre could have one helluva rotation in the outfield with them DH’ing. I don’t think Damon wants to stay as a PT player and I can’t really blame him.
The starting rotation shouldn’t be a problem since they are loaded in that departement.
one more thing – dougie m has been a difference maker in a number of games this year . and with the yanks line-up ( robbie cano batting 7th or 8th most of the season for example ) , they wouldnt be hindered by having a light hitting first baseman .
Re: Molina, if he gets an offer to start somewhere else, he might be gone. If he gets no offers to start anywhere, I think he’ll be back. He has spoken very positively about his experiences in NY thus far. He also made mention of how great Posada, Pena, and Torre have been to him.
If they start Giambi at first next year and replace him for defense in close games, they can keep Damon and Abreu.
Let’s face it, Giambi has exactly been a tower of health and he can’t hit anymore anyway. But we are stuck with him next year so part time him w/ Minky.
Damon LF, Matsui DH.
There aren’t any better options out there this coming offseason
“After thinking about it more, I think that the Betemit for Proctor deal did not turn out in our favor. Betemit warms the bench more than anything else and has done poorly as of late.”
they still control him for another 3 seasons.
the book has yet to be written on this trade.
so im reading red slox blogs, why do they all attack julio lugo for not running to 1st base on a ground out, but when manny does it, they all laugh and call it manny being manny. God, those fans are idiots
I say offer A-rod an extension that nets him $30-$32M per year from 2008-end of the extension. It’s Cashman’s fiduciary responsibility to keep Texas money in play.
I really like Alex and think he’s finally been accepted in New York and he finally feels comfortable here, BUT I don’t see paying him $40M. There’s a certain point where cost/reward is out of whack. $35M is approaching it and $40M is definitely it. He’s been great all season and he saved the Yankees’ behinds this year, but this is a team sport and one man can not be expected to carry a team year in and year out.
“Betemit warms the bench…”
What were you expecting him to do on this team???
Start at third?
at&t park is hands down, my personal favorite – its great and a fun place to watch no matter what happens on the field. i think bonds wants to come back here (to go for 800) but the giants don’t really want him. mostly from a marketing perspective, they need to make the team more about the younger players/zito etc.
“For now lets concentrate on the AL EAST and the PLayoffs.”
you do realize that nothing anyone this blog does or says actually affects what will happen, right?
if people want to talk about the offseason, go for it.
we aren’t on the team. we don’t have to “concentrate” on anything.
I hope Minky catches the last out at 1st base in the last game of the World Series this year.
Julio Lugo cost them the game.
I think the Red Sox have some of the smartest, most loyal fans. That being said, they only accept “Manny being Manny” because of production. The minute he stops producing, they stop accepting it. But that type of behavior can be said for any team and their fans. Farnsworth is tolerated because of his arm and the potential of his arm. Though I believe him to be on the downside or close to it, if he isn’t already there.
Why is everyone so worried about Giambi? I think he’s been pretty good off the bench.
i thought the pen cost them that game
Nate: how do the fans feel about Zito and his contract?
The pen was bad in that game, agreed. But had Lugo busted it out of the box, they win.
having someone like joba in the pen can be invaluable ( as we have all seen this year ) .
i find it hard to beleive that the yanks start the season with 3 very young and inexperienced pitchers like hughes , kennedy and joba . not impossible but certainly nothing the yanks have done before .
agree, but i just hate this manny being manny thing. its lame.
Plus, if the Yankees go deep into the playoffs, they will earn additional money that could be used for salaries next year.
Does anyone have a feel for the amount of money they might earn if they win the WS?
zito – about the same we felt with kevin brown or randy johnson
Re: Lugo and all major leaguers…they come up to the plate roughly five times per game. How hard is it to run hard for the first 90 feet?
Wow…Zito is thought of that poorly? The Giants really got taken by Boras. Thankfully Cashman stayed out of that mess.
Andrea: You don’t pay a guy $22 million to come off the bench. Andy Phillips will be ready next year to play again and EYECHART might want to return also. That makes 3 guys for basically 1 position. That’s what killed the bench this year. Betemit helped the bench with his versatility. If you are going to carry 12 pitchers, you leave 4 guys for the bench: 1 OF, 1 INF, 1 C and 1 super-sub.
They cannot have a repeat of the bench from April/May in 2008.
“You don’t pay a guy $22 million to come off the bench. Andy Phillips will be ready next year to play again and EYECHART might want to return also. That makes 3 guys for basically 1 position.”
the Yankees are not going to have *both* Phillips and Mientkiewicz on the team next year.
they are basically the same player. Mientkiewicz is a little better, Phillips is a little cheaper.
If we keep the team as is, we’re necessarily left with a very expensive bench player each day in either Damon or Giambi.
I know Damon’s got a lot of fans, but I still think he should go. He’s had a few hot streaks, but overall this has been a decidedly mediocre season, especially considering he’s had so many games as a DH. It a shame that Giambi can’t play 1B for $22 million, but at least he can hit like a DH. Damon as a DH is, well, sad.
Damon is a great 4th outfielder. If he’s ok with that, and the team’s ok with paying him to be a 4th outfielder, then everything is fine. If not, we need to see what we can get for him.
Is this the 6-1 game? If it was then Lugo lost them a chance to score with the bases loaded when it was still 2-1. Timlin put the game on the line by letting guys into the park for free, but Francona let it get out of hand by keeping Timlin out there. But, to be fair, who was he going to? Oka out. Gagne gag. Delcarmen already pitched. Actually Papelbon is the guy you would want if you need an out. Swing & miss.
Here’s the thing with Papelbon and we’ll face it with our own young pitchers. They’re young and basically being thrown into this whole Sox/Yank playoff cauldron. Paps came up in late ’05 and really earned his stripes. Early exit in playoffs. In 2006 he’s their dominant closer, but for reasons we all know Boston was invited to the dance. This year a lot of the other pieces are falling apart, the starting pitching (Beckett’s the only solid guy at this moment), Ortiz is hurt, Manny’s pic is on a milk carton, so Papelbon’s the only guy. Now there’s real pressure on him. He’s really, really good, but also young. It’ll be interesting to see how it all plays out.
I don’t buy the “you don’t pay a guy to do this” argument. The Yankees have the money. Who cares. I’m not paying for it. So what do I care? They have to pay Giambi to do something anyway, why not pay him to come off the bench instead of pay him to screw up plays at 1st base? It’s a kickass threat to have someone like Giambi coming off the bench.
Gossage is right. Not only does Joba have the arsenal, he has the mental toughness to be an outstanding reliever and future closer. I like SJ’s idea of one more year in the pen for Joba. Kennedy and Hughes in the rotation.
As for Proctor vs. Betemit, no thanks the Dodgers can have him. Middle relievers have good years and bad years so therefore are very replacable. Betemit is a nice addition to the team, a guy who can play any infield position and hit for power off the bench. He will be involved come postseason time, mark my words.
i think that one of cashman’s greatest qualities is that he has learned from his mistakes and i don’t see him spending like a moron this offseason.
ie. signing andruw jones, hunter, or 2nd tier pitchers for large bags of cash
Theres just no way to figure out whats going to happen next year.
So much rides on this post season.
Just wanted to say that Mientkiewicz is a far better player than Phillips is. Minky’s OPS vs. Righthanders .785, Phillips vs. Righthanders .732. Most starters in the game are Righthanded and Minky’s slugging like 70 points higher than Phillips is.
Yanks can trade Giambi if they eat a lot of his contract. Damon is a better fielder than Matsui is and if Matsui focuses only on hitting I think he will benefit greatly. Just my 2 cents.
I love the idea on the signings. But by the same token I’m getting a little worried for the future. We’ve “younged up” the pitchers which is great…but what are we going to d owhen the Jorge’s and Giambi’s get old (if they haven’t already).
For me here’s what I’d like to see:
1st Base – Much as I love Doug, I’d think if Philips gets his glove going better I’d want to see him and Duncan platoon it.
Outfield – Cabrera, Abreu, Damon.
Catchers – Posada (of course) and Molina. Can’t think who else is out there.
Pitchers – Wang, Pettite, Mussina (if he’s on), Rocket (if he wants), Kennedy…6th man.
I’d love to actually have a six man rotation…after years of no pitching..now we have too much.
Now, who’s 6th…though I love Goose’s argument I want Jaba. His stuff is just friggin’ NASTY!!! I to get him to do 6+ innings of it??? You’re looking at a Rocket work ethic, with Mo type stuff, and an attitude like Goose. How can you not want to start that?
Personally I think two of the best prospects of the newest generation of “Baby Bombers” are Jaba and Duncan. Sure they’re a little green and can use some improvement but I like their attitude.
Youre not going to see them go into a game thinking “Well I need to make sure I have command and according to the stats on this given night I should….blahblahblah.” These two come out with an almost Neanderthal-like Beast mentality in their heads:
Jaba’s Head – “Youklis hit ball…make base…Jaba no like…KILL!!!”
Duncan’s Head – “Duncan hit ball. People cheer for Duncan. Duncan feel good. Duncan like feel good. DUNCAN SMASH BALL!!!!”
All in all it’s be a h*ll of a season to watch.
“you do realize that nothing anyone this blog does or says actually affects what will happen, right?”
you mean refusing to watch the game on my jinx tv and watching only on my lucky tv doesn’t help either?
damn!!!
I’m with Andrea. If you can’t stay healthy or field a position then you help where you can. Jason’s not grumbling and why should he? He’s getting paid $20M to play in his twilight years and he’s even lucky to have a team with all his baggage.
If Johnny D is happy with the situation now. Fine. If not let him choose where he wants to play. I think Tampa’s a great fit for him and he is from Florida. If Damon goes that opens up full-time DH for Jason. A lot will depend on Matsui’s offseason visit to the MRI tube. Damon may actually be playing a lot of LF if Matsui’s not right.
Keep the team as it is. Dump Pavano and get some real bullpen guys.
Alex, Mo, Po, Bob, and Andy are all must-have-backs.
Joey Bagadonuts,
So you think its reasonable to do the following:
- Not re-sign the best player in baseball.
- Keep a young pitcher who only became a reliever because of need and has 4 quality pitches in a bullpen role where he is far less valuable to the team.
- Re-sign a no-hit 1B who is overrated in the field simply because we have power hitters at less traditional positions (C, SS, 2B), thereby giving away much of the advantage gained over other teams by having these hitters.
Well that didn’t format quite the way I thought it would. Hope you could still get the point, I’m always right and those that disagree with me are obviously wrong.
“But had Lugo busted it out of the box, they win.”
But had Ortiz not popped up or struck out. But had Bucholz thrown a no-hitter. But had Lowell not struck out with bases loaded. But had Papelbon not given up a grand slam. No one incident was anymore important in determining the outcome of the game than any of the others. One play does not a win make.
“you mean refusing to watch the game on my jinx tv and watching only on my lucky tv doesn’t help either?
damn!!!”
hilarious
Sorry it’s not your jinx and lucky TV that are helping. It’s my daughter sitting indian style on the left end of the couch with her toes crossed. I thought everyone knew that.
Keep Damon, his speed makes up for any deficiency in left field. He also came to spring training fat, dumb and happy and I don’t think he makes the same mistake next year.
I am not so sure about Abreu. He seems to turn it on at the end of the season, but his defense drives me crazy. Also think there is some communication problems w him and Melky in the field. This would also give Shelley a chance to be a reserve outfielder.
Don’t forget Giambi had a foot problem for most of the season. You can’t drive a ball if you can’t push off your back foot.
The rest of them I would keep, if possible. We finally have a bench that we can feel good about.
One factor is the retaining of Joe Torre. If he does not come back, do some of these players decide to go elsewhere?
Mussina should stay in the ‘pen for the rest of year and next year. Hughes should be the #4 starter if and when we make it to the postseason. Just my opinion.
Personally, I like to think that ARod at this point in his career wants more than paycheck (he will get that anyway). The Bronx is the only place that can showcase his talents and when he is done, he will be in monument park and that is as good a HOF as anywhere. When he notches HR number 800 as a Yankee he will be revered as much as Ruth, DiMaggio and Mantle. Just my 2 cents.
As for Damon coming into Spring Training out of shape, he was recovering from injury and could not work out during the winter which is his normal style. Damon is a good guy and has character. I think he is very important to this club.
Bosco -
I merely said it’s a good idea to keep Joba in the pen. As you yourself pointed out – “need” and all. Shorten the game. That was a big part of how the Yankees used to get it done. See championships in 77, 78, 96, 98, 99….
I never said anything about letting Arod walk, and have no idea what you’re even talking about. Nor did I mention Minky.
I did however notice that you disagreed with a few people, me included, but instead of making your case, you decided that just typing an insult was somehow persuasive.
I’m placing my bet like this: at the end of the season they’ll turn to Damon and ask if he’s willing to switch to 1st base, if he agrees, good bye Minky, hello again andy here’s your bench, keep it warm. But if Damon doesn’t cooperate they’ll trade him and will try to keep Minky. Minky is an overall good player and seems to have a great chemestry with A-rod which pleases him to stay in NY even more.
Keep a player of Damon’s caliber at the bench seems unreasonable to me and there’s no room for everybody in the outfield and at the same time too many “just ok” options for the 1st base spot.
“I hope Minky catches the last out at 1st base in the last game of the World Series this year.”
at which point, he’ll just keep it. and nobody will say a word.
ahahah the “shorten the game” BS is one of the more foolish arguments around. YEAH, if you have joba for 2 mo for 1 they only have 6 innings to score. If you have joba for 6-7 and mo for 1 they have LESS TIME
giambi off the “bench”:http://img149.imageshack.us/im.....102xt4.jpg
Giambi can’t be considered a full time player.
I hear he had foot problems this year which is an excuse for his lack of hitting.
It was his knee last year.
It was tumor and roids withdrawal the year before.
Face it, he’s not a good hitter anymore. His body can’t hold up!
I’d rather have Damon on the team than Giambi. Damon offers 5X more than Giambi does.
13,
I also believe that legacy, tradition, and history are very important. Which is more important? Having your star burn bright in the Yankee celestial sky or moving on? I know that Alex is cognizant of his place among Yankee greats, but everyone, including Pete, insists that Alex is only out for the money. I’m of the thought that he can have both in New York. I won’t think it’s cool if Alex decides to opt out and then signs here anyway.
Bobby Abreu — The option is a no brainer. There is no better RF that fits in our offense available. Pay him.
Alex Rodriguez — If it takes giving him partial ownership you have to keep him. Any price.
Andy Pettitte — Andy’s option is too rich for my blood but he has been one of our most reliable pitchers this year. I love Andy and would like him to stay but obviously since its a player option its completely up to him. At least thats one guy CashMan doesnt have to make a decision on.
Doug Mientkiewicz — Great fielder, let him walk. Too many 1B cripple our roster. Instead of a 3 1B rotation we need to have a 2 man rotation. With Giambi automatic that last spot will come down to Philips and anyone we bring in via FA. With the lack of pop available on the FA market my vote would be for Jeff Kent who has experience at 1B even though most of his career has been at 2B. I think he’d be a nice power bat with a nice glove that could start at 1B while Giambi stays as our DH. If I were CashMan I’d look into that.
Jose Molina — I qould really like to see us retains Molina. I think he’s a perfect backup and seems to enjoy it in NY. He calls a good game and isnt a liability with the bat. With Jorge being an older catcher and no young catcher close to Show level an older catcher like Molina would be perfect to give a 2 year deal to.
Jorge Posada — Give him what he wants. He needs to stay.
Mariano Rivera — IMO the greatest closer of all time. However, he has slipped in stature in the last few years and if his negotiations start getting rediculous Mo would be the first one I’d let walk before Posada, A-Rod or Abreu. Obviously we want him in pinstripes until retirement idealy.
Luis Vizcaino — He’s been much better than he’s gotten credit for. He’s also had wear and tear on his arm. This could go either way for me. I wouldnt mind if he stayed and I wouldnt cry if he left. With all the instablility of our pen (Bruney, Farnsworth, Joba-moving to rotation, Villone-overworked, Mo-unsure of return) he might be more valuable than we think. This is up to CashMan to decide looking at the big picture.
Johnny Damon — Johnny finds himself as the 4th OF. I expect CashMan to shop him in the offseason.
One of the biggest mistakes teams make over and over and over again is overvaluing middle relievers, who are as mercurial as can be in baseball. You don’t pay more than the absolutely minimum for the Viz next year, no matter how good he’s been. Look at how many teams thought that, by overspending on middle relief, they’d have all their problems fixed. It never works.
If the past few days hasn’t clearly illustrated the value of Doug Mienkiwicz (did i even come close there?), I don’t know what ever will. You keep him.
The rest of them should be pretty self-explanatory. I can live with another year of overpriced part-time DHs and fourth outfielders if Abreu remains our best option in RF.
you people are as crazy as al shaprton
1. why would you want to trade damon ?
2. who would pick up damon’s contract ? nobody
3. dougie m . is the best defensive firstbaseman in the league . name a better one .
4. as fans , if you buy merchandise , go to games or anything else – youre paying the bills . fact
Bringing in Jeff Kent doesn’t make any sense since they want to go younger/cheaper. Plus he’s an a-hole personality. His offense is declining in the form of Jason Giambi.
Minky for one year and then maybe make a run at Tiexeira?
Who knows. But why keep Phillips when Minky is better and maybe $600,00 more?
merchandise sales are split amongst the teams in the collevtive bargaining agreement. So by supporting the Yanks, we are also supporting the Pirates.
“you mean refusing to watch the game on my jinx tv and watching only on my lucky tv doesn’t help either?
damn!!!”
wait, i never said THAT. that totally works.
I think the Yanks should keep Mariano no matter what. There are some players that you have to keep even if you know they might be healthy enough to fulfill the end of the contract. Mo is one of those guys. He HAS to finish his career as a Yankee or it will be the most disappointing and aad thing I will have ever seen in professional sports. I would give him a 5 year deal if he wanted it just to make certain he would retire having never worn another uniform.
sorry, that should have read “even if you know they might NOT be healthy enough” Pete, create an edit button…. Make it so.
Right but if they keep him as a clsoer that entire time, he would only be hurting the team.
They are is a grey area in all this. I think the Bernie situation should have been handled differently, but I think it was the right baseball deceision to make.
Mo is coming close (in a few years) to being what Bernie was his last 2 years for NY.
There is a time to move on (retiring/not re-signing) and finding and realizing when that time is, is the best thing for a team AND player.
I would give Mariano whatever contract he wanted with the idea that if he was hurting the team late in the contract, we could DL him or something to save the roster spot and give him a job within the organization a la Mattingly. Maybe save a spot for him as an analyst on the YES Network or as a special advisor in Tampa. But basically, make sure to let him know that he is a valued and respected member of the Yankee organization for the rest of his life.
I really feel like we didnt respect Bernie the way we should have and that we could have handled the situation with more tact. I mean look at the beginning of the season, maybe Bernie could have helped us until we came out of our malaise and at the least we could have given him a shot and then either DLed him or moved him into the front office.
I expect us to bring back all the guys we want. AND I expect this yr to be the highest Yankees payroll for the next 5 yrs, possibly ever.
Heres why –
Looking at how much each of these guys can expect to earn per year, there isnt really anyone due a huge raise.
The only person who can expect a raise of more than $3M per (certainly increase in money actually paid by Yankees) is ARod. ARod will get an extension and the final years will cost the Yankees a lot but that won’t be for another few years (after current deal expires).
Posada could get a small raise, but is already on $12M this yr. How many teams would go multi yr far above that number for a catcher his age? Similar for Mo who has appeared a little shaky at times this yr.
The Viz might get more than people think cos Cash knows his importance. 3 yrs $12 – 14M aint out of the question. Farnsy is off the books soon though.
Pettitte has indicated if he does come back it’ll be on the option yr and not an new deal.
Abreu will back back for only $1M more than this yr.
Minky could well be back and wont expect a huge raise. Same for Molina.
Although it looks like a lot of people to bring back, and the total lifetime figures of the deals will be huge, the actual yr by yr increase wont be too bad.
Even if we bring everyone back we still loose the following contracts soon, replaced by Joba and Kennedy in the rotation and Tabata and Jackson in the outfield.
Coming off the books we’d have –
After this yr – Clemens (saving about $18M)
After next yr – Giambi, Farnsworth, Pavano, Mussina, Abreu (assuming option picked up) – saving about $65M)
After 09 – Matsui, Damon (saving $26M)
And we’ll proably trade away Igawa (not suited to bullpen but no rotation spot, and someone -Atalnta? – will snap him up) for a lefty setup guy.
This yrs total raises will be less than $18M per – covered by losing Clemens.
Next yr we have a crop of new bullpen guys and outfielders, the following yr expect another bumper crop of starters, coming through so we wont need to resign the aging players we lose after 08 and 09.
Cashman will continue to bring through the young guys. We can afford to resign this yrs free agents because we probably wont want to bring back Mussina, Abreu (after next yr), Matsui, Giambi, Farnsy, or Damon. They are all either breaking down or losing their spots to younger players anyway. One or two might return on smaller deals to ease the transition (eg Matsui or Abreu as a DH for another yr).
Overall though next yr we will have a slightly smaller payroll (barring unexpected summer moves), the following yr even if we go after Sabathia, Bedard or Santana, we will still see a big drop in payroll, the same for the yr after that.
There is no doubt that after the move to the new stadium the team will have money to burn, but Cashman doesnt like big untradable contracts. He likes bringing up young players, and it is already working. My guess is they will start to recoup the huge investment in the stadium instead and continue to outspend everyone else in drafting young guys, scouting and int. signings.
Oops sorry that was a HUGE comment. Got a little carried away.
I will say it will be tough to get rid of Damon, im not that confident with Melky. That said shouldnt we be spending our time thinking about todays game or the playoffs?
“A lot for Cashman to consider”…
But not much for him to do. This is a lot simpler than fans like to make it.
This team is playing the best baseball of any team in the Majors, with no team a close second. Since July 2, they are 50-23, a 110+ win pace. They are not “hot”. They are playing at an expected, forecastable level. Not a “small sample size”.
The first priority is to re-up Joe Torre for as long as he’d like, probably three more, which would give him a shot at Joe McCarthy’s record and put him 4th all-time.
Don’t kid yourselves… Andy, Jorge and Mo don’t come back without Joe.
Given the first priority, Andy “should” re-up, and Jorge and Mo will get done.
Abreu’s option is a no-brainer. There is no one on the FA market who is close to fitting this lineup like he does.
A-Rod will be up to A-Rod. It won’t be about money, there will be plenty of that. It will be about his comfort level. It would be an upset if he left. He’s alluded several times to his level of comfort this year.
This ain’t rocket science… it’s fun to debate, but there aren’t any tough decisions to be made. The biggest debate will be how many of the kids to add to the pitching staff next year.
The payroll will be 220+/-, which is a superb value for the Yankees’ position in the marketplace.
Let’s not get real dramatic… this is easy stuff.
And fun to watch…
Anyone who wants to trade Mo is crazy. He hasn’t been his typical lights out this year but he’s still one of the best.
I would expect Posada to decline more rapidly than Mo. He’s already defied the typical catcher profile quite a bit. He’ll be 37 next year — how much longer can he keep it up?? That said, I love him and they have to bring him back, but I do worry that he’ll end up hurting us, esp. if they give him a long term deal. If I was Cash, my #1 priority for player development would be a catcher. Starting pitching is always huge, but we’re going to be in trouble if Jorge declines and we have only Molina to replace him.
No way Andy, Jorge or take their gloves elsewhere if Joe’s not back. Being a Yankee, and getting Yankee money are much bigger factors than their relationship with Torre.
Here’s my 2 cents —
Re-sign Posada and Mo both for 3 years. I know by year 3 we may regret it (mostly on Jorge, I think Mo will still be effective by then), but they earned it and I also think even in a limited role in year three they will still be useful role players on this team.
Let Vizcaino walk if the bidding gets too high. Viz won’t get Farnsworth money. He’s not an 8th inning guy — he’s like somewhere between a 7th and 8th. I think he’s had a lot of mileage on that arm already and he’s one of those classic middle relievers who you overpay and get lesser results out of. He’s not a stopper,. If he takes a 2 year 6-7 million contract to stay here, then fine. If he gets a 3 year offer, let him walk.
Dougie M is interesting in that his glove and his locker room presence both are pluses. He seems very team first. He’s a LH bat which is always nice in the stadium. Still, he’s the least of our worries. He’s icing on the cake. With Andy Phillips back next season, Andy’s a cheaper alternative to Doug. Still, if I had to choose between Doug and Phillips, I’m taking Doug on a 1 year 1-2 million extension and letting Andy get a shot in another organization.
I pick up Abreu’s option with no question. The guy has come back from the abyss to drive in close to 100 this season and have a career high in runs scored. I do not want Tori Hunter or Andruw Jones on this team at all. That’s typical old Yankee dumb free agent move. Pick up Abreu’s option, have him play another contract year and keep him. He’s grown on me. The only free agent OF I would consider is Rowland for CF, but that creates problems and I don’t see it happening. Next season the OF should be Damon in LF, Melky in CF and Abreu in RF with Shelley, Matsui and one of the kids filling out the rest of the OF. Honestly Matsui and Damon should be rotating LF/DH again.
I don’t want to trade Damon. We can’t trade Giambi and considering how much of a good soldier he’s been, I think he’ll take to the occasional DH/1b arrangement. The guy is walking injury risk, so expecting 162 out of him is ludicrous anyway.
As for Arod, I pray he stays. I hope Cashman gives him what he needs not to opt out. I can’t fathom him playing Boston, but most people couldn’t fathom him playing 3b for the Yankees, so I don’t rule anything out.
If for some reason he goes, I hope Cashman’s first call is to KC to acquire either Mark Teahan (possible) or Alex Gordon (less likely) to play 3b. I know everyone will want Cabrera from FLA, but he scares me the way Manny Ramirez scares Boston fans. Teahan was a 3b and was moved to RF for Gordon and I like him as a ballplayer. I would also consider a reclamation project like Joe Crede or even Eric Chavez in the right deal. Basically, I really don’t want Arod to go and see Betemit at 3b next season.
As for the rotation, I’m very torn on taking Joba from the pen. In baseball today, most starters go 6 (maybe) and the pen wins and loses games for you. I know he would be a #1 starter and those are so rare, but also are true lights out arms in the back end of the game. Cashman has a huge decision to make and I don’t envy him there.
“If for some reason he goes, I hope Cashman’s first call is to KC to acquire either Mark Teahan (possible) or Alex Gordon (less likely) to play 3b.”
Alex Gordon is definitely not available. You don’t trade the future of your franchise after one year. And Teahen will never hit for enough power to be considered a proper replacement for A-Rod then again no one can replace him. We’re really in some trouble if Cash can’t get him back.
Since bullpens are apparently so important now and completely win games and aren’t really just full of failed starters, maybe we should stop trying to develop quality starting pitching and just develop setup men!!!! That’s how World Series are won!!!!!!
I’d put Joba in the rotation and send Hughes to AAA to rework his mechanics.
He is a decent pitcher at 91mph but not the ace he cold be. We need to get him back to 96 mph.
Start the yr with
Wang
Pettitte
Mussina
Joba
Kennedy
Trade Igawa for a lefty bullpen arm. I dont lke selling low on him but there are no innings for him in NY. He has shown enough in AAA to get a decent return. I’d package him with Gardner and send him to Atlanta for Gonzalez. He could replace Joba as the bridge to Mo.
Karstens, DeSalvo and Steven White are ample cover for the rotation until Hughes can rejoin ther team. Although it might also be the right time to move DeSalvo who was the pitcher of the year for Scranton with a sub 3 ERA, but wont get near our rotation unless someone gets hurt.
All of our money is focused on our offense – we need to sacrifice a little and distribute a bit to the starting pitching. Pick up 1 big name pitcher and have:
1 – Santana
2 – Wang
3 – Pettitte
4 – Mussina/Hughes
5 – Chaimberlain
Bullpen – we need someone to distribute the work better. And to designate more guys to long relief – everyone got burned out in the beginning of 2007 b/c of poor starting pitching. That 1 inning using every pitcher we have didnt work
I love the team chemistry they have at the moment. The young kids are thrilled to be around players like Jeter, Mo, Arod, Pettitte, Moose, Rocket, Posada, Giambi, Damon etc. Look at all the fun Cano and Melky have with Arod and Abreu.
All skills aside, team chemistry plays a big part of where they are right now. If you watch other clubs you just don’t the kind of energy we have right now. If I were Cash I’d do what I can to keep this team together for next season. Maybe fill a few here and there but thats about it. You cannot put a price tag on having all these accomplished players there for these new kids to learn from. The beginning of the season was plagued with injuries. Now we are seeing this team at full potential.
My turn -
Resign Mo and Posada, but don’t go 3 years – I’d shoot for adding years as options if over 2. And their deals should be for declining dollars over time given their ages. Mo is at the top pay grade for closers, Jorge for catchers. They shouldn’t be going up much if at all. But these are core lifer Yanks – gotta keep ‘em. And there’s nothing significantly better out there.
Vizcaino will get offers for $3 mil+ for multiple years. He’s been steady – this talk of Torre burning him out is crap. He’s at roughly the same app and IP levels of his last 6 years. But Torre’s the 1 who burned him out? Everybody wants solid setups, and the market isn’t loaded with ‘em, so the price could be high. The fact is ’08 is Farns’ last contract year (and as pointed out above, payroll should tumble in ’09), so Viz could be backloaded a bit if that gets it done.
With Abreu I’d go for an extension for 2 years, maybe with a 3rd option, but at a somewhat lower annual rate. He’s making more than Vlad Guerrero for chrissakes. And he’s not so old – a year more than A-Rod, 3 months over both Jeter and Matsui. Tabata’s the RF of the future, but he’s 19, in A ball, and having wrist problems. Abreu could be the bridge to there. And there’s nothing wrong with having extra guys if you can afford it, and we can.
So we’ll keep Jumbo and Damon – then Giambi goes after next year opening DH for the 4th OF in ’09, after which time we hope Tabata, Jackson, et al are ready. I don’t think the Yanks are gonna want to open the new Stadium with a team full of rookies. Regardless of what the prospect dazzled armchair GM’s here might think.
Minky / Phillips – much ado about not so much. Either / or.
Molina won’t be looked at as a starter anywhere, and the going rate for backups is about $1 mil or less. That should be his number. But because the 40 man will be tight, we may be forced to sign a back-up to a minors deal (like was done with Cairo, Villone this offseason), and that might not get him. Pavano has to be put back on the 40 this winter, than back on the 60 day DL at start of next season, making room for a minor league invitee. I don’t think you can collect on the insurance if you release him, and if you collect the insurance the Yanks still have to pay the luxury tax on his salary. It never ends.
Hopefully Pettitte will choose to return, maybe even extend (again at a lower rate) to open the new place, as will A-Rod. On the latter, just ’cause Boras says $30 mil doesn’t make it so. And the Yanks are best positioned financially to do a deal as an extension, with big payroll declines after ’09 to cover whatever increases he gets. It will be interesting to see if Cash sticks to his “no extension, no discussion – opt out & yer out” guns. Keep your ears to the ground for those tampering BoSox – wouldn’t be the first accusation against them, although look what it got them with Drew.
Soory all, was taking on Brian for diatribe of the day.
Oh and I forgot to add that we have to resign Molina. Give him 2 years and tell him he’ll see more time in the lineup as Jorge ages. Ideally, I’d love to see Molina catch 2 games a week next year to keep Jorge fresh.
As for my Teahan suggestion if Arod walks, as a 3b in 2006 he hit 18 homers with a .290 batting avg in only 393 at bats. He was a decent 3b. Not gold glove. He didn’t want to be moved to RF for Gordon to play 3b (it shows in the offensive dips he’s had this year) so he’s learned a new position this year. His power numbers are still developing in my opinion and he has a little speed and is a left handed hitter. He does strike out a lot though.
I think putting him in Yankee Stadium with the short porch at 3b and taking him out of KC will make him a 20-30 home run threat.
Still, we’re talking about replacing an irreplacable player if Arod walks. There is no 3b out there available that will do that unless the Mets want to give us Wright or the Brewers would like to slip us Braun. Cashman is going to have to be creative at 3b if the worst happens. I’m all for letting Betemit play, but we’ve seen he’s pretty much half a player who can only hit LH…I just don’t see him as our starter.
how fitting is it that his name is Cashman…
Doug Mientkiewicz HAS to be resigned. He is the Bruce Springsteen of baseball.
At 3B if A-Rod walks, we could steal free agent Mr. Lowell. It would fit with our recent pattern of stealing some of the Sox fan favorites. And he came up through the Yanks farm system – a “home-transplant”? Was quoted recently up there as saying he wouldn’t be opposed to going to NY (that must have opissed ‘em off), had a good experience in our org.
Maybe not a long term solution, but we could do worse.
And calling Mienky the Bruce of baseball is a slight to the Boss. And not George.
Hey Pete great blog! Thank you for always emailing me back when I emailed you with a question!!!
There are two things I would be interested in asking Brian Cashman. First is there a limit to the amount of minor league teams a franchise can have and second is there any interest in the Japanese relievers that are free agents this year? Iwase and Kobayashi in particular among others. Might as well ask if there is any interest in Fukudome as well as a replacement for Abreu.
Thanks
Dan L
The good news for the pen next yr is the number of guys in the system who coulod be ready for NY in Aug / Sept. Probably not another Joba, but lots of contenders for contributors.
Melancon, Snachez and Cox all come back from Tommy J surgery. Melalcon is currently furthest along but look for Sanchez to make the team.
There are lots of other candidates in the system though, will be interesting to see who makes it.
Looks like Edwar is doing his best to get his name scratched off he list!!