Today in The Journal News
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Sep 21, 2007 
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Bobby Abreu is digging it in New York and wants to stay around. But he’s just one of the players Brian Cashman has to make a call on.
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Check out this ESPN.com story on Dr. James Andrews. You hear his name all the time. Now you learn who the man is and what he’s all about.
I think picking up Bobbys option is a good idea. However, it is near the bottom in terms of importance. We have a lot of work to do this off season with Bobby, Jorge, Mo, Pettite, and A-Rod. I would rank them in this order of importance to get done.
1.Arod-NEEDS to be a part of this team long term. Has proven he can handle NY with flying colors. If he opts out we are in big trouble the next 5 years.
2.Jorge-Can make his case for MVP of the team this year. With Jeter, he is our heart and soul. The team will take a big hit if he walks.
3.Mo-What can I say..best closer in the history of the game and still very solid. Joba is going to the rotation next year and we need Mo to close games.
4.Pettite-Has been solid if not great this year. We wouldnt be in the position were in without him..but do we really need him next year with Wang, Joba, Ian, Hughes, Moose? We can use the money to help the bullpen and sign the other guys.
5.Bobby-Has had a great turn around the 2nd half and his option looks like a bargain right now. However, the other 4 are bigger parts of the team in my opinion.
Really good read about Dr. Andrews. Heard the name a lot and really had no idea who he was until now. Seems like a great man.
great article. I will not forget what Bobby did for teh team in 2006. Pick up his option IS a very very good idea
The Yanks should pick up Bobby Abreu’s club option for 2008 because there is NO free agent RF anywhere close to being as good as he’s been this year.
In case any of you missed Pete on SportCenter, Dr. Acula was great enough to provide:
Dr. Acula
September 20th, 2007 at 6:38 pm
Lights, Camera, ACTION!
If you missed our boy on ESPN, no worries, you can watch it here, at the following link.
http://tinyurl.com/3xjmg2
ENJOY!!! Great job, Pete!
Great article on Dr. Andrews! I’ve heard his name, but didn’t realize what a contribution he has made!
Brabbit, I agree with everything you said, but still don’t understand why Bobby can’t stay. These are, after all, the New York Yankees! I think he’s earned a spot and he is great at working the count, very patient.
A-ROD has to stay! I just can’t really imagine him going anywhere else when he can take a place in history as one of the greats in Yankee history… imho.
Pick up Abreu’s option and DON”T trade Damon. I finally like the depth that this team has. With this kind of depth they can regularly give the oldsters some rest and survive injuries.
It really boils down to the post-season. No so much for Posada and Mo but for Alex, Bobby and Joe. Posada will be have a good enough post-season to stick around and Jeter will insist in any case. I am still worried about A-Rod and this slump he is in. I think his season numbers are great and it would be great to send him to the Hall as a Yankee, but a less than MVP type post-season and he is gone. Bobby too needs a good post-season to make his case. Torre too. A closer would seem to be different than a starter in that as a starter gets older (think Roger) he can reduce his innings and still be valuable. Not so much a closer, it seems you really couldn’t scale Mo bac any more than he already has been. And would Mo want to play if he could not close. Mo keeps his price low enough such that he gets maybe a two year deal, with three mutual option years. This way he can bail if he loses it, god forbid. Pettitte to me is a wild card. Bold prediction based on nothing, [Yanks lose ALDS, he's back to Houston], [Yanks win Series, he retires], [Yanks lose Series, but Pettitte is most effective pitcher, he stays to try again].
We were supposed to be at the game tonight, with tickets my daughter bought from StubHub back in August, but they never shipped ‘em, and now offer nothing but a refund because no “comparable seats” are available to them for the price she paid them last month. Bad PR, bad business. I’ll watch the game at home tonight
Forgot about Damon, I suppose Melky is cheap enough that you could keep both. And heaven forbid Damon goes to another AL East team (don’t know if RSN would have him back)and kills us, bad form. Spend the money, avoid the embarrassment.
We wouldn’t have to worry about Damon going to another AL East team. He has more than two years left on his contract, and if he was traded, the Yankees would probably send him to a National League team. I like the idea of picking up Bobby’s option, I just wish a cure could be found for the lumbering around that he sometimes does in the field.
Andy has a player option, which at the time was put in place because he stated that if he was hurt he would not have the Yankees pay him to sit on the bench or in Tampa. For some reason I don’t buy all the talk that Andy would use the opt-out as some sort of bargaining chip. So unless he really wants to retire, Andy will be in pinstripes next year.
As for the rest of the guys, I say lets enjoy the next six weeks and worry about next year after a trip down the Canyon of Heroes.
If you don’t pick up Abreu’s option, what are your choices? Get Andruw Jones or the banged up Torii Hunter for CF at more than $16 mil per year and move Melky to RF? No thanks. Jones is fat and lazy and Torii is about a year away from disintegrating after all that wall contact over the years. Pay Bobby his $16 million, keep Melky in CF and split time for Damon and Matsui in LF with Damon playing CF only once in a while.
Bobby’s soft play anywhere near the wall and his near crashes with Melky and Cano are infuriating. But, his arm holds runners to first base on “maybe” doubles, he sees a lot of pitches, draws a lot of walks, hits for power and average, moves over Damon and Jeter and sets the table for A-Rod. And Bobby can steal a bag. Unless Cano suddenly jumps to the next level in drawing walks and pitch identification, Abreu is the PERFECT 3 hole hitter in this lineup.
murphydog-
I was going to say exactly all the same things you said. Bobby’s upside is certainly higher than his downside is low. Plus, he will cost the Yankees less money than any of the free agents who will be on the market. That’s more money available for signing, well, Posada, Mo, A-Rod, Molina, etc., etc.
Plus, as he himself said, Abreu fits this team and he fits this city and vice versa. And, I like his overall good mood and demeanor, which is not a small thing.
Great story on Dr. Andrews – amazing human being! And Bobby Abreau must stay a Yankee. He’s perfect for the 3 hole and has a great attitude for NY. Maybe staying away from the wall has kept him healthy, unlike Tory Hunter. I believe if the game was on the line in the playoffs Abreau won’t be worried about hitting the wall to make the play. And how refreshing is it to hear his post game interviews – especially when he’s happy and giggles – so funny.
He has a great smile! I mean, I know, that’s not important overall, but, like Mary Ellen said, it’s very refreshing. Especially for a veteran.
Thanks for the link to the story. I thought Birmingham was only good for Dreamland ribs..
And thanks for Dr. A for posting Pete’s SportsCenter spot – Great job Pete!
I was just looking at those pitching matchups for the Toronto series……….This is the Blue Jays post season.
Keep Bobby. I remember last year he brought discipline at the plate. Too many opposing pitchers were going too quickly though the lineup until they came to Bobby. He would get an 0-2 count and 10 pitches later he would walk and blow the pitchers rhythm to hell. Besides, he almost single-handedly put the stake in the Red Sox heart last year in the massacre at Fenway.
I would love Bobby to stay. I really like the combination of him and A-Rod as 3 and 4.
Hey Pete– Great job with DS from BG last night on SC. So nice to have someone OTHER than Steve “Yes, I traded Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano” Phillips talking about the Yanks!
Hey M-Dog!
I couldn’t agree more with what you posted re: BA.
Around late May this season, I thought to myself “Thank god its an option next year for Abreu– that way they can pay him his $2M buyout and go after Andruw Jones, Torii Hunter, Eric Byrnes or Aaron Rowand in the offseason and move Melky to right.”
But….
Abreu has picked it up, and after the recent Yankee-free-agent-fiascos over the last few years (Pavano, Lofton, Sheffield, et al) I say they stick with something that works.
Jones is having the worst year of his career, Hunter is about one year/one injury shy of turning into Johnny Damon, Byrnes re-signed for a huge contract and Rowand will seek Byrnes-esque numbers (5 yrs/ $50 M).
Lets not forget that Abreu pulled an oblique in the spring, which can screw up a player’s swing for months (just ask Man-Ram).
With a free-agent outfield crop like this, it seems a shame to not dive in. Now, if Ichiro was still available (and MAYBE Vernon Wells, maybe!) then that would be a different story. But as of right now, I say they pick up the option. Doesn’t Vlad become a free agent after next year? And we all know Johan and CC both become free agents after next year. I say rather than lock up Andruw Jones to some ridiculous, backloaded contract for way too much money and way too many years, I say they save their money for the Two SouthPaws.
It’s 99% guaranteed they pick up the option. A vet at that cost for one yr? Productive vet at that. A no brainer.
in order of importance…
mo rivera approx $15 mil / year ( maybe 2 or 3 yrs )
jorge $15 mill ( 2 or 3 years )
a-rod $30+ ( 5 to 8 years )
abreu $16 mil team option
I’m just spitballin’ there .
and with all these young pitchers coming and going i think the yanks need a guy like pettitte ( $16 mil player option )to come back . helps in the clubhouse and certainly helps young pitchers in all aspects of the game on and off the field .
Good job Peter, you represented pretty well on ESPN. Of course you dodged the question of whether the Yankees should push for the division or rest players, but that’s ok. I don’t know if I would agree with your statement that Alex has been carrying the Yankees all year, although I am sure he responsible for about 8-10 wins, so I guess that qualifies as carrying.
Re Abreu, I agree with Gargoyle, it’s nice to have 4 competent outfielders. Why can’t we keep all 4? It’s not like we need to trade Damon for some missing piece.
Bobby’s right, there are very few changes that need to be made on this team. There is a good chemsitry going. Only changes that really need to be made is help in the pen. But we might have some options down on the farm. The Yankees went from being in one of the worst positions to one of the best!
IMO, we will see MO, Jorge, A-Rod and Abreu next year.
JIm did you check the Yankees site. They usually release more tickets day of.
Maybe the only change i’d make would be to trade Matsui. I like Johnny playing Left, and you know he wouldn’t come into camp in bad shape as he did this year.
Whew,
Anyone else suffer from Yankee baseball withdrawals yesterday?
I watched the mets lose
And I love listening to the Fan now, to hear all the mets fans cry.
There is no need to put them in order…these things don’t happen consecutively…they can happen concurrently. Cashman and his staff can do more than one thing at a time, believe it or not.
“in order of importance…
mo rivera approx $15 mil / year ( maybe 2 or 3 yrs )
jorge $15 mill ( 2 or 3 years )
a-rod $30+ ( 5 to 8 years )
abreu $16 mil team option”
If you want to put it in order of importance, A-Rod and Posada have to top the list. Like it or not, the closer position is far easier to replace than the best player in baseball and a catcher that can actually hit. For all intents and purposes, A-Rod and Jorge’s production cannot be matched by anyone that is available.
That said, I think Cash is going to get it done and bring back everyone.
Hah lucky.
All I egt around here are Red Sox channels.. Which are fun to listen to right now, but still.. Id rather it be Yankees talk!
No way they trade Matsui…he’s the consummate team player and even apologized to the team when he got injured. Throw in the connections the Yanks made to Japan…he’s here for the life of his contract.
Should Brian Cashman elect not to pick up Bobby Abreu’s option, the best case scenario would be to sign free agent CF Aaron Rowand and slide Melky over to RF.
In Rowand, the Yankees would get a steady RH bat and a Gold Glove CF and he wouldn’t require outrageous money.
Torii Hunter or Andruw Jones would want a lot more money for the same production.
Regardless, signing A-Rod, Jorge, Mo, and Andy takes top priority.
Yah, I dont see the Yankees going after Jones or Hunter.. Just doesn’t fit into this new (old?) system that their using when it comes to looking at players and free agents.
Personally Im going to focus on this season for now. Go Yankees!
Aaron Rowand is an elite fielder at a difficult position and has a .900 OPS (I realize part of that is due to his home park). He’s also 30, so this is probably his last shot at big bucks. I can’t imagine him signing cheap. And do you really expect Damon to willing be relegated to role player status all year next season?
Considering his current salary and his performance this year, I doubt Mo asks for much higher than his current salary. Yes, he’s being paid at a discount right now, and frankly I’d throw as much money as possible at him, but I doubt he makes 15 mil next year. Just my opinion.
Jorge, however, has some leverage. He’s going to ask for a lot, and he will get it.
I just hope they sign A-Rod to an extension and keep everybody happy. They can still get the subsidy from Texas and then pay A-Rod in full when his contract gets into the “extension” years.
“4.Pettite-Has been solid if not great this year. We wouldnt be in the position were in without him..but do we really need him next year with Wang, Joba, Ian, Hughes, Moose? We can use the money to help the bullpen and sign the other guys.”
Are you kidding me? The Yankees have used THIRTEEN starting pitchers this year. Now suddenly we don’t need Andy Pettitte? Give me a break. Joba has never started a ML game, Ian has started three, and the other three guys all missed starts this year due to injury or ineffectiveness.
Yah they’ve go to pay Posada.. He’ll get whatever he asks for I’d think.
Hes already started to work with our young pitchers, and they’re getting firmiliar with each other.. It’s just another reason to keep Posada around.
Dman – I totally had withdrawals yesterday. I didn’t realize how bad it had gotten. I did know what to do with myself last night. My son came into my office yesterday afternoon and said, “When does the game start?” This is a very exciting time to be a Yankee fan and we just can’t get enough of it!
correction – I did NOT know what to do…..
Everyone says we should sign A-Rod. I am not really sure. If he still cannot hit well in post season and Yankees lose series, I am not sure if we want to spend 30MM+ a year for a guy has track record of only hitting well in regular season. I suggest only sign him if he can prove himself in the postseaon this year.
Well, keep in mind the 30 million wouldn’t come until like 2011. A-Rod is signing an extension or leaving the contract as it is (which is unlikely). If he opts out, the Yankees probably aren’t going to pursue him.
At least, that’s what Cashman says. Of course, Cashman also said after 2005 that “Bubba Crosby is our centerfielder” and we all know what happened soon afterwards.
I don’t think there’s any question Abreu’s option is getting picked up.
They aren’t going to get in the CF bidding. Too high for guys who aren’t the 15-18 million type of player.
Frankly, Abreu is a better player than Rowand, Jones and Hunter. No need to change what’s working. He’s good player and a great fit in NY.
Posada and Mo will both be back. Even they can’t create drama/fear they will go elsewhere. The Yankees will ante up for both guys.
Andy? If they win the WS, or Torre isn’t back, I think he retires. If they don’t win the WS, and Torre is back, I think he comes back. If he does return, 2008 will be his final year. Same goes for Moose.
Arod? The big question. Scott Boras is telling his buddies/shills in the media he is getting $40 million per year for Arod.
At first blush, I doubt it. But, this is a man who got Barry Zito $128 million so, who knows.
Arod is the WC. Hopefully, he is back. IMO, this will be a high stakes game of chicken that will go down to the wire.
Aaron Rowand is younger than Hunter and the same age as Jones but K’s a lot less. Andruw Jones is the prototypical HR guy – K’s a lot.
Damon at his age, can adapt at being a role player (DH/LF/some CF) with 2 remaining years of his contract. He has to come into spring traning in the best shape of his life to take a settled situation.
You don’t base signing someone on 20-25 post-season AB’s.
If that’s the case, then Brian Doyle and David Eckstein would have been the highest paid players in the baseball in their respective eras.
No Arod this year, they aren’t even sniffing the playoffs.
While talk show hosts and fans who parrot them get caught up in post-season numbers, they cry “small sample size”.
There are a lot of Hall of Fame players who have had up and down post-season numbers. You don’t base a 5-8 year commitment on 20-25 AB’s.
The guy is, far and away, the best player in the game. He fits your lineup like a glove and, more importantly, you have no replacement for him on your team at this time.
Given the fact the Yankees will generate over 100 million dollars more per year in revenues at the New Yankee Stadium, they can afford Arod.
The question is more, “does Arod want to come back”, than “do the Yankees want him”?
Brian Cashman has already told Arod personally (as he did with Mo and Posada) they want him back.
The ball is in Arod’s court. The money will be there.
Scott Boras knows better than to play games with the Yankees and the big stage of baseball. He’ll do some posturing and other moves but he knows he’ll never do better elsewhere when push comes to shove. He’ll tickle some interest with other teams to show his style and in the end it will be A-Rod himself that tells his agent where he wants to be as he closes in on more records. A new stadium with electric fans and off field money he can’t get elsewhere will win out. It’s not Boras’s 100% decision to make.
“Everyone says we should sign A-Rod. I am not really sure. If he still cannot hit well in post season and Yankees lose series, I am not sure if we want to spend 30MM+ a year for a guy has track record of only hitting well in regular season. I suggest only sign him if he can prove himself in the postseaon this year.”
Just because ESPN says that arod cant hit in the postseason, dont believe it:
In 35 games he has 16 homeruns 280/362/485
Mr Postseason, derek jeter 314/384/479
Paul O’Neil is almost identical to Arod in the postseason 284/363/465
This myth that Arod cant hit in the post season is just plain wrong. the numbers are there
Everyone forgets that Alex carried us in the Minnisota series, without him we don’t even go to the ALCS in 2004. Everyone also forgets that after game 4 everyone disappeared, not just Alex. People have selective memories with Alex regarding the post season, they only recall the bad.. Mussina has the same problem, people only recall the bad games not the good. Andy has the opposite, they forget the horrible ones and only recall the good.
Great job Pete! Definitely held your own next to Dan who is a seasoned vet on ESPN. And thanks to Dr. Acula for the link. Much appreciated.
Migames,
Perhaps Arod’s stats for his entire playoff history are good but I think most people are referring to his lack of production in the last two or three years in the postseason. I think one of those years he barely hit .125 in the postseason.
In the playoff series against the Angels on of his first ab, if not the first he was *drilled* in the side by Colon. Anyone who thinks that didn’t mess up his swing is wrong.
And in 2004, everyone went away, and the more games the soxs won the more everyone pressed to be the one to finally get the big hit.
I remember an early-season RLYW commenter saying that he wouldn’t pick up Abreu’s option if he had a 1.000 OBP for the rest of the season. And I felt that way too. Abreu just killed the team in the first few months.
Now, bringing him back is nearly a no-brainer. Funny how that works.
As for ARod, I agree that the “he can’t hit in the playoffs” line is garbage. Look at the playoff stats of practically any HOF player or “True Yankee” and you’ll find some horrendous series mixed in with good and great ones. That includes such luminaries as Jeter, Posada, Brosius, and O’Neill. They have all “choked” in certain series.
ARod has already shown he can hit in the playoffs as a Yankee. He has nothing to prove and should not be held to standards that do not apply to Jeter or other supposedly “clutch” players.
The really tough decisions for Cashman, IMO, are Posada and Mo. Posada is having a season for the ages, but the possibility that he will abruptly break down must be frightening for Cashman. Everyone knows that Posada is old for a catcher and that catchers decline quickly. We have to hope that Posada accepts a contract that recognizes the age risk.
Mo, unlike Posada, has not had a particularly good season by his standards, considering that he has come off 4 straight years of a sub-2 ERA. He is still very good, but he’s also getting old and he might already be showing decline.
Letting Posada or Mo walk is unthinkable, but Cashman will have to adopt a tough negotiating stance anyway. Otherwise he could end up spending big money on two players who are going downhill fast.
“Migames,
Perhaps Arod’s stats for his entire playoff history are good but I think most people are referring to his lack of production in the last two or three years in the postseason. I think one of those years he barely hit .125 in the postseason.”
And the sample size over two playoffs is so small that it’s not worth mentioning. The fact Yankees “fans” continue to debate re-signing one of the top 5 players of all-time is absolutely ridiculous. I wish morons that continue to bring this stuff up would find a different bandwagon to jump on.
My rant for the day:
I’ve been reading a few papers online this morning. Many writers are crediting A-Rod, or Jeter, or Jorge, or Joba for turning around this season. In my opinion, this year has been a total team effort and that’s why the Yankees are where they are right now.
Some Yankees have had a tremendous year but when Jeter, A-Rod and Posada were the offense earlier this year, they contributed to wins but it wasn’t enough to sustain a winning streak because the pitching wasn’t there. When Petitte pitched 7 innings and gave up 2 runs, it wasn’t enough because the offense didn’t give him 3 or the bullpen wasn’t able to close it out. Contributions from the Miguel Cairo’s, Josh Phelps and Chase Wrights of the world may not be sexy but they were just as important.
Baseball is a team sport and while one guy can contribute to a win, no one guy alone can be responsible for it. Even if a pitcher pitches a no hitter, someone on his team needs to score a run in order for him to get the win.
Personal opinions on priorities:
1. Posada
2. ARod
3. Rivera
4. Convince Pettite to use his option and come back
5. New manager
6. Exercise Abreu’s option
Aaron Rowand… Beware the CF having a career year. Can he do it again?
He’s only hit 20 or more HR once before, in 2004. Meanwhile, stolen bases are down from a 2004 high of 17 to only 6 this year (is he slowing?) and beware of his home park effect. If you want him, logically, Melky goes to RF and Abreu goes away.
Rowand was on the Yankee radar a few years ago so there’s probably still some interest, but at what price? Is Rowand going to sign for less than $16 mil per year? Probably. He’s allegedly at $4.35 mil this year, but will be looking for big bucks based on his 2007 stats. Melky’s still at league minimum or thereabouts, Damon is locked in at his contract price as is Matsui.
Can Rowand replace Abreu at the plate? No. If you like to go righty, lefty down the lineup, acquiring Rowand probably means moving Cano up to no. 3 and batting Rowand toward the bottom. Cano has his moments but he’s no Abreu in the patience department so a big hole would develop in the present lineup. (But none of this matters if A-Rod opts out and goes away). Abreu’s offense is more consistent and he has a longer track record of offensive production than Rowand.
Can Rowand replace Abreu in the field? Misleading question. Abreu’s not a CF so, the comparison is whether Rowand is better than Melky at CF. At the price and age, he’s not that much of an improvement. I’d pass.
pat, good post, but everyone knows that Josh Phelps made no contributions to this team. He batted .000/.000/.000 and made 75 errors in just 29 games.
“Personal opinions on priorities:
1. Posada
2. ARod
3. Rivera
4. Convince Pettite to use his option and come back
5. New manager
6. Exercise Abreu’s option”
Exactly.
The sample size over two playoffs is too small to even mention???? In 2005 in the playoffs against the Angels Arod went 2 for 15 for an average of .133. How did he do against the Tigers in the playoffs last year? He went 1-14 for an average of .071 and zero rbi’s. No matter how well you do in the regular season if you don’t come through in the postseason it has to raise concerns.
pat -
I agree with you. The turnaround has to be credited to a total team effort. Yes, there are the star players who always keep the team up, but without the supporting players, you aren’t able to maintain anything.
Regarding A-Rod — the ball is in his court. He seems to be having the time of his life, and I hope that when the season is over, he will realize that for maybe the first time since he was a star on the rise, he is happy, and he is part of a team. Plus, he’s a mentor and that’s got to count for something. Building relationships where you work, no matter where you work, is so important to a person’s overall well-being. It seems to me that he has built some good relationships here. I hope that counts for a lot when the time comes for him to decide what to do. the money will be there. the money will always be there. It’s got to be about something else this time.
ray,
In the 2001 WS, Jeter went 4 for 27, batting .148/.179/.259. And we lost! I guess we should have traded him before 2002.
“The sample size over two playoffs is too small to even mention???? In 2005 in the playoffs against the Angels Arod went 2 for 15 for an average of .133. How did he do against the Tigers in the playoffs last year? He went 1-14 for an average of .071 and zero rbi’s. ”
this is awesome.
you rail against the sample size then list 29 ABs. hilarious.
I agree Pat. I’m feeling like the team this year has jelled so well together. ALL OF THEM. Its taken a team effort to get where we are today. It’s fun to watch! I was thinking this to myself the other day and can’t recall in recent years of the team pulling together like this for an entire season. Everybody always “says” this or “says” that. But this team is saying it and doing it! I honestly think that we are going to do something great this postseason. I really do.
Other than being totally clueless anywhere near a wall & lack communication issues with Melky, Abreu has been a teremendous all around player & works pitchers to death. When he is hitting well his power to dead & left center is outstanding. He’s expensive, but after a woeful start, has been a huge part of our resurgence, & seems too be a great fit. We need to somehow keep Jorge, Mo, & A-rod one & all, but don’t know if it can be done. Hideki has been one of our most reliable dependable players & clutch hitters in his tenure here & his contributions should not be overlooked. Looks like he is on the verge of snapping out of his most prolonged slump & will be big down the stretch. I’m hoping A-Rod will soon snap out of his doldrums & be big for us in the playoffs, win the WS, & then perhaps have his at last success here & the appreciation of the fans be the deciding factors in perhaps passing up more $ & agreeing to an extension, with Texas still paying part of his original term. He finally seemed like he was enjoying playing here, & the acceptance of his teammates & fans at long last. This is the biggest stage, & it’s only monopoly $ anyway at this point in his life. Here’s hoping.
“Migames,
Perhaps Arod’s stats for his entire playoff history are good but I think most people are referring to his lack of production in the last two or three years in the postseason. I think one of those years he barely hit .125 in the postseason.�
nobody batted in the past couple of postseason, sheffield and giambi have almost the same numbers as arod in the det series. Posada batted well during that series but arod out hit him in the other 4. And where was Derek Jeter during the red sox series?
Honestly, its a myth that sells papers for the daily news and viewers from BBTN. Dont believe the hype. Arod plays as well as everyone else during the playoffs
do we realy want a new manager ? torre has alot more upside than downside .
“the money will be there. the money will always be there. It’s got to be about something else this time.” — well said, Doreen
Speaking of options and signings for next year, check out this article on Bernie Williams. He’s still holding out hope for next year, apparently.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....6471.story
Jeter:
1998 ALDS .111/.273/.111
1998 ALCS .200/.259/.320
2000 ALDS .211/.318/.211
2001 ALCS .118/.200/.118
2001 WS .148/.179/.259
2003 ALCS .233/.281/.400
2004 ALCS .200/.333/.233
“The sample size over two playoffs is too small to even mention???? In 2005 in the playoffs against the Angels Arod went 2 for 15 for an average of .133. How did he do against the Tigers in the playoffs last year? He went 1-14 for an average of .071 and zero rbi’s. No matter how well you do in the regular season if you don’t come through in the postseason it has to raise concerns.”
If you think a 30 AB sample is large enough to make any type of judgment about a player’s ability then you have some serious reading to do.
If A-Rod hits .600 with 4 HR’s and 10 RBI’s in the first round of the playoffs and the Yankees don’t win, does that make him more valauable than if he bats .125 with no HR’s and no RBI’s and the Yankees win?
How much would be enough for those who think post season numbers are important in order to try and keep A-Rod?
Sample size in the playoffs is a tough argument because you’ll never have a high enough number of at bats to judge someone. However, psychological difference between batting in the regular season and in the playoffs in elimination scenarios exist. Moneyball details this and the argument for/against it.
In the 2006 post season:
A-Rod: .071
Sheff: .083
Cano: .133
Giambi: .125
Team BA: .246
In the 2005 post season:
Posada: .231
A-Rod: .133
Matsui: .200
Bernie: .211
Tino: 0-8, .000
Team BA: .253
Those are just the numbers, do with them what you will.
“do we realy want a new manager ? torre has alot more upside than downside .”
I’ve wanted a new manager since Torre’s bullpen managment cost us the 2003 and 2004 World Series. He’s never been a great tactical manager, and I think the whole “he’s great at managing personalities” thing is basically the same type of cliche as when a catcher’s defensive rep always increases as he hits less. I wouldn’t be against replacing Joe with the right guy next season.
Here’s how Scooter the Squirrel gets into the Stadium! lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk4kmTC9XkQ
arod has gone 2 for his last 22, i guess all he has done this season really goes downhill.
dont people realize that everyone number are worse in the playoffs due to the fact that only the top 4 teams of each league shows up to play. they pitch their best pitchers and their top 4 relievers? its not the tampa bay pitching staff out there.
hmmm-
It just shows to go ya that not everyone is perfect!
Also it’s not always about how many hits, but when you get those hits.
“Sample size in the playoffs is a tough argument because you’ll never have a high enough number of at bats to judge someone. However, psychological difference between batting in the regular season and in the playoffs in elimination scenarios exist. Moneyball details this and the argument for/against it.”
He’s hit in the playoffs before including with the Yankees. I think that just leaves us with his career record to look at, and it just so happens A-Rod is a pretty good little player.
I wonder how much Dr Andrews is banking right now. There are a lot of HOF’s on that list of patients.
Abreu should comeback next year and probably will.
“dont people realize that everyone number are worse in the playoffs due to the fact that only the top 4 teams of each league shows up to play. they pitch their best pitchers and their top 4 relievers? its not the tampa bay pitching staff out there.”
Jeter is a .317 hitter in the regular season and .314 hitter in the post season. (and a .314 hitter in spring training) Some players are just consistent.
What to do with Abreu is important but I agree A-Rod, Posada, Mo & Pettitte are higher up on the list. I’d try to persuade Pettite to take his option year by offering him a couple years’ extension. Maybe this could give Mo & Posada a little incentive to keep the core guys together. A-Rod will do what he & Boras will do, which hopefully means he’ll stay.
Would it make sense to pick up Abreu’s option then trade him for someone else who’s a good all-around OF, no older than 30 now (preferably less) and already signed at half Abreu’s price or less? Makes more sense to me than just signing an available free agent. Cashman might be able to work some prospects/draft picks into such a deal too.
I think we need someone who’ll be in the range of 26-33 years old during their time in NY, not 31-38. They could get an extension or options past 33 if they can still play at that age. I haven’t thought of names yet … no idea who it might be.
But, I would NOT want Cashman to make a move for someone more expensive and in some ways over-rated like Torii Hunter or Andruw Jones. Yes they both still have their all-star characteristics in some ways. But we’d all be complaining about Hunter’s offensive stats and he’s also getting older than his prime. We would NOT be getting the 23-28 year old Jones either, he’d be the slower side of 30 when he’s here.
I believe at this stage in their careers, those two would be a downgrade from the kind of season one should expect from Bobby Abreu. If you asked me 3 months ago … well, the Abreu we had in the first half was a different story.
Granted, after Abreu’s slump in the first half he’s bounced back with a decent set of stats. And Murphy’s Law would have him hitting over .330 with 25HR next year if we trade him. But this off season is when we could actually get a promising, younger OF in return for him. Probably the cut off for getting someone good in return for him would be next year’s trading deadline.
a hit is a hit, regardless of the inning you get it
I guess when theres no game to talk about its easy to talk about next year.. But lets focus on this year!
We’ve still got work to do!
DMan: I have no work to do…just to watch the game. Since I don’t have to face Halladay, there’s no focus needed.
Were I to have to face Hallady, the Yanks would be in trouble.
Not the inning, migames, but does it somehow turn into a run — scored or batted in.
…Halladay…
I could beat Halladay!… Um.. At nintendo… Maybe..
DMan-
That depends on whether Halladay plays nintendo on the days he’s not pitching!
so, how are the mets doing?
send bobby abreu packing…we need to get young…
If Abreu doesn’t return to this team season, I would sign Kosuke Fukudome or trade for one of the Diamondbacks outfielders. I wonder who will play first base next year. Adam Dunn anyone?
Jeter’s postseason numbers are good- no debate- but he has also had more post season AB’s than most others so therefore he has a larger sample size to get those numbers than most people.
“Jeter is a .317 hitter in the regular season and .314 hitter in the post season. (and a .314 hitter in spring training) Some players are just consistent.”
but as you can see, Jeter’s .314 average is comprised of a bunch of series hitting .450 and a bunch of series hitting .200.
he hasn’t hit .314 in every series. in fact, he hasn’t been consistent at all, but over the HUGE postseason sample Jeter has been afforded by virtue of playing for the Yankees his entire career, he has been very good.
but there are peaks and valleys. just like A-Rod. just like every player.
given a large enough sample size and players will tend to play to their career averages.
it’s just that people tend to ignore it when Jeter has a poor series.
“Would it make sense to pick up Abreu’s option then trade him for someone else who’s a good all-around OF, no older than 30 now (preferably less) and already signed at half Abreu’s price or less?”
why would the OTHER team make that trade?
and you can’t trade draft picks.
Ted Williams played in one postseason series, the 1946 WS. He went 5 for 25, batting .200/.333/.200.
Ted Williams: choke artist.
Interesting thing — last night I watched the 1996 game one versus the Orioles. It was the one where Jeter hit the tainted homerun (the kid caught the ball in fair territory). But what interested me was a play in the field; Jeter and Raines and a pop fly to left. Neither caught a very catchable ball. It was 11 years ago. I don’t think Jeter has every blown that play since. But it was eye-opening to see that Jeter hasn’t always been perfect.
Another thing that was interesting was that they pinch-hit for Paul O’Neill with Jesse Orosco in the game for the Orioles. Sterling said, quote, “O’Neill can’t hit Orosco with a paddle.”
What watching those old games does for me is put the history in perspective. Over time, it seems like the Yankee heroes were invincible and had no faults and always came through. That’s not the case. But it doesn’t diminish the accomplishments.
Heres another thing.. in the last 2 post seasons, the opposing team has had a higher Batting avaerge than the Yankees…
In 2006:
Yankees: .246
Tigers: .309
In 2005:
Yankees: .253
Angels: .275
.309 is way high. .275 is pretty high too. So lets not overlook pitching here. Our pitching is on a different level than it was in 2005 and 2006.
Of course the other thing, when watching an 11-year-old game, is you notice how the players have aged. Derek no longer has the baby face and he’s filled out. Bernie was a lean, lithe guy. Even Mo was more slender and baby-faced.
Re: The A-Rod contract situation
A rare and unique piece of art is difficult to price because, due to its rarity, there are only a small number of serious buyers who can afford it. But to have a bidding war you only need two serious buyers, and assume that the buyers’ egos are huge. Assume also that there are no close comparables and that the seller cares only to maximize price. In that scenario, the real price can only be determined by auction.
To get to the auction, A-Rod has to opt out and Cashman has said he won’t price compete if A-Rod opts out. Hmmmmm….
According to some reports, Boras has put $35 mil out there already, and now maybe he’s talking $40 mil. But if the player is so rare and incomparable that only an auction can determine his true worth, why is Boras trying so hard to create a market price now, instead of letting the market do that after the season?
A-Rod may not be confident that he will mash in the playoffs like he has in the regular season. If A-Rod doesn’t “show up” in the playoffs again, the overall market price goes down and one of the few serious buyers may lose some desire to keep A-Rod on the Steinbrenner Ranch. Better to try to inflate the price now and hope a fall-off in playoff production only drops him back to $30 mil.
Or it could be that A-Rod wants to stay in NY and build his legacy with the Yankees, but if the Yankees are convinced of that, they will bargain conservatively as though there is a hometown discount. To allow A-Rod to stay, but to counter the downpricing “A-Rod wants to stay” effect, Boras has to talk about opting out and outrageous prices.
I think A-Rod knows that there is pressure for him to make this contract about something other than just the money and thus avoid the opt out and the auction. For all the talk of “letting the market decide,” A-Rod is a man with his own goals, sensibilities and desires. So, this is not a pure market decision unless A-Rod makes it so. If he does, he will see that the troubles his Texas contract brought him were only the beginning. If A-Rod fails to make this next contract about more than the money, he will be branded a Mercenary among Mercenaries, and arrive at a place not so far from Barry Bondsville. Allow me to paraphrase the Zeppelin-headed left fielder for the SF Giants: “Hey, man. It’s just a business. I’m a sideshow performer in a travelling circus. I’m an employee paid to come out everyday and do that thing I do for the patrons so the owners can sell seats, the vendors can sell beer and the TV can sell soap. Why’s everybody hating on me?”
There is nothing less interesting at the moment than A-Rods contract situation.
Worrying about it is worthless. Speculating is equally worthless.
Can we worry about setting our rotation up for the playoff run before we worry about who is playing 1b next yr?
Doreen
I agree about putting history in perspective. I watched some of the Classic games earlier this year and thought the same thing. In one game Brosius and O’Neill both struck out and I thought to myself, winning world series has a way of making you forget they ever had bad at bats in the post season. It also made me realize even more that the biggest difference in those teams was the pitching and not so much the offense.
pat –
True enough. And I think the pitching the Yankees have this season, while maybe not as good as it has been in past years, is a lot better than the last 2 years. I think the Yankees have a better chance of getting the WS, once they make the playoffs, than the last 2 years. I’m a little afraid to be optimistic, though, because anything can happen. I mean, for cryin’ out loud — the Cardinals!??!
Bosco
September 21st, 2007 at 10:38 am
“do we realy want a new manager ? torre has alot more upside than downside .�
I’ve wanted a new manager since Torre’s bullpen managment cost us the 2003 and 2004 World Series. He’s never been a great tactical manager, and I think the whole “he’s great at managing personalities� thing is basically the same type of cliche as when a catcher’s defensive rep always increases as he hits less. I wouldn’t be against replacing Joe with the right guy next season.
Blame David Wells for 2003.
And you can blame Rivera for blowing game 4, and brown in game 7 for 2004.
Torres managing the pen had nothing to do with losing those years.
If you’re going to bash him for bullpen use than you certainly have to praise him for 96-2001.
“Blame David Wells for 2003.
And you can blame Rivera for blowing game 4, and brown in game 7 for 2004.
Torres managing the pen had nothing to do with losing those years.
If you’re going to bash him for bullpen use than you certainly have to praise him for 96-2001.”
Torre blew 2003 with too much Jeff Weaver in Game 3 and 2004 by not using Mo until it was too late in Game 4.
A 2 year old could have managed the stacked pitching staffs of 1996-2001.
Comparing any player’s postseason numbers is virtually pointless. For example, how many pitchers would Jeter be facing in post season play that he saw the last time the Yankees were in a World Series in 2003? Beckett and ???. With at least a roster turnover of 20% from year to year, a hitter or pitcher’s results can change up or down from game to game even with the Yankees consistency of postseason appearances.
I like having Big Arms in center and right, It helps to keep in check the running teams like the Angels. Abreu fits this bill.
It seems like if everyone gets signed the yanks will have a 1 year spike in payroll as moose and Giambino come off the books afert next season. If the yanks can afford to suck it up for 1 year then I am in favor of it. Also, 2009 brings the new home office for baseball adding $$$ to the bottom line.
*A question for Pete, who do you think the Yanks will Keep?*
Honestly, I don’t care what A-Rod does in the postseason. Just get to the postseason and win the friggin’ ‘chip.
That should have said Game 4 in 2003 and Game 5 in 2004.
Here’s the play-by-play and box score for a reminder. Torre stole an inning out of Weaver who hadn’t thrown in almost a month. Then he goes to him for more and Alex Gonzalez leads off the 11th with a walk off homer. To tie up the series 2-2.
http://www.baseball-reference......0220.shtml
And 2004. Torre brings in Gordon in the 7th and he gets out of the inning. Instead, of bringing Mo in to lock down the series with a 2 inning save, Gordon returns and leads off the 8th with an Ortiz homer to put the Sox down 2. Then walks Millar who is replaced by Dave Roberts.
http://www.baseball-reference......0180.shtml
I wonder if the Yankees would try to trade Jason. He would only have a year left on his contract, and if they paid half he would/should be very easy to move.
Jennifer -
Cashman will no doubt put out feelers with Giambi but the suitors will be limited. The NL is out of the picture with no DH and his so-so play at 1st base. He’d be a real expensive pinch hitter.
The AL is much the same. After the All Star break is a possibility with less contract for the Yankees to eat.
“Torre blew 2003 with too much Jeff Weaver in Game 3 and 2004 by not using Mo until it was too late in Game 4. ”
in game 4, the yankees had a 1 run lead in the 9th inning.
Mo started the inning. if he gets 3 outs, they win the series.
he walked Millar, then the SB, then a single to Mueller.
it was his fault, not Torre’s.
and i’m no Torre apologist.
“Of course the other thing, when watching an 11-year-old game, is you notice how the players have aged. Derek no longer has the baby face and he’s filled out. Bernie was a lean, lithe guy. Even Mo was more slender and baby-faced.”
it’s pretty dramatic even as recently as the 2003 ALCS.
look at Giambi in that series and look at him now. it’s night and day.
Rumor has it Jason was out partying in Miami the night before he begged out of the ws series game.
Lets concentrate on the AL east and the playoffs..and hope the smell of october is not getting to Arod..Im a little worried about his slump,bad time for that.
I love watching 1996 games. Jeter was so little. Mo doesn’t look that much different in the face, just smaller. Bernie looked younger. It’s just so much fun! It makes me wonder, if people like Cano, Melky, Joba, Hughes, Kennedy are still on the team in 11 years, and we’re watching games from the 2007 playoffs on Yankee classics, what will they look like in 11 years and what will we say about them from 2007?
Raul: I wouldn’t worry about A-Rod. He’s had this every other month thing going on all year. September was time for his bad month. In October he’ll be hot again.
“Posada is having a season for the ages, but the possibility that he will abruptly break down must be frightening for Cashman.”
Yes, but what ought to be frightening about that is the loss of production it would represent, not the loss of money.